School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high

functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a

specialized school for Autism.

Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3 1/2

and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was

sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning new

skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were

friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the time

with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)

This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan

Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts

that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place

class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year

progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have

diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are

substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think

2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more

intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least

restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and

learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a

controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and not

know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have

taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put

him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master

it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid

he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it

might be too much for him.

He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating

sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns

and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word

sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so

noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around

him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with

coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space

(e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table).

I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and

ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what

he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these

schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice!

Thanks!

Shiri

[Guest guest]

My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. Looking back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity.

All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in the program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a PLACE program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism coach on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have more language/social skills he can learn from.

Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any, opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that developmental stage.

Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each program. But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good luck!

From: Shiri

Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM

To: sList

Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Hi all, I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a specialized school for Autism. Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3 1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning new skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the time with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think 2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and not know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it might be too much for him.He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space (e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table). I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice! Thanks!Shiri

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your input, I know Baudhuin is a great school, my sister and cousin

will actually be teaching there this upcoming year (they are grad students for

school pych at nova) so if he did go I know they'd look out for him. The place

program he is supposed to attend will have speech and OT but only once a week

for a half an hour. I don't know if they have an autism coach or if they're

trained in ABA, but his teacher last year in PLACE had a masters in special

education. None of the children in his class have an official diagnosis of ASD

(which is not to say that they don't have it since the school board doesn't

require a diagnosis just a developmental delay dx.) The new teacher sounds very

nice and supportive and said that b/c he is the only one who is dx asd (the

others she says are only language delayed) that he would get more

attention/support. When he was in place last year the other children would hug

him and take him by the hand, and help put on his weighted lap pad when he

needed it. I feel like everyone benefits from a child with special needs in the

class. But he also didn't get enough one-on-one for skill building which he

really needs, and the program's focus is completely language based and not as

much on social skills that asd kids have problems with. I guess we just need to

try this new school and teacher ans see how it goes!

>

> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. Looking

back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son

benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with

other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity.

>

> All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in the

program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a PLACE

program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism coach

on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the

make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special

needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who

have more language/social skills he can learn from.

>

> Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any,

opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained

in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support

staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though

either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task

over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for

that developmental stage.

>

> Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each program.

But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good

luck!

>

>

>

> From: Shiri

> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM

> To: sList

> Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

>

>

>

> Hi all,

> I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high

functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a

specialized school for Autism.

> Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3

1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was

sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning new

skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were

friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the time

with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)

> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan

Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts

that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place

class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year

progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have

diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are

substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think

2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more

intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least

restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and

learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a

controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and not

know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have

taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put

him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master

it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid

he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it

might be too much for him.

> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating

sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns

and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word

sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so

noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around

him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with

coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space

(e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table).

I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and

ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what

he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these

schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice!

> Thanks!

> Shiri

>

[Guest guest]

You can add social goals to IEP.

Ex: _____ will tap another child on the shoulder (with verbal/gestural/visual prompts/cues, independently) to gain his/her attention in 8 out of 10 opportunities.

____ will greet peers and staff (with verbal/visual cues, independently) upon entering classroom in 8 to 10 opportunities.

____ will ask another peer to play an active game on the playground in 8 to 10 opportunities.

I put "verbal/gestural/visual" but all goals really should be "independently."

If you add social goals, the staff will have to focus on them. If your child's teacher is flexible, you can offer or provide some of the research on social skills training and strategies.

From: Shiri

Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:22 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Thanks for your input, I know Baudhuin is a great school, my sister and cousin will actually be teaching there this upcoming year (they are grad students for school pych at nova) so if he did go I know they'd look out for him. The place program he is supposed to attend will have speech and OT but only once a week for a half an hour. I don't know if they have an autism coach or if they're trained in ABA, but his teacher last year in PLACE had a masters in special education. None of the children in his class have an official diagnosis of ASD (which is not to say that they don't have it since the school board doesn't require a diagnosis just a developmental delay dx.) The new teacher sounds very nice and supportive and said that b/c he is the only one who is dx asd (the others she says are only language delayed) that he would get more attention/support. When he was in place last year the other children would hug him and take him by the hand, and help put on his weighted lap pad when he needed it. I feel like everyone benefits from a child with special needs in the class. But he also didn't get enough one-on-one for skill building which he really needs, and the program's focus is completely language based and not as much on social skills that asd kids have problems with. I guess we just need to try this new school and teacher ans see how it goes!>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. Looking back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity. > > All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in the program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a PLACE program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism coach on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have more language/social skills he can learn from.> > Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any, opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that developmental stage. > > Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each program. But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good luck!> > > > From: Shiri > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM> To: sList > Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?> > > > Hi all, > I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a specialized school for Autism. > Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3 1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning new skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the time with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think 2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and not know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it might be too much for him.> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space (e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table). I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice! > Thanks!> Shiri>

[Guest guest]

Your son sounds similar to my son. During EI he had greenspan and ABA. We felt

like he needed ABA to develop lang so when he was younger 3-5 he attended a

private school- ABA program-discrete trial we did greenspan at home. From we

changed prog bcz he didn't have good peer models so when he was 5-6yrs old he

attended a different private school with a greenspan approach and it was

integrated with neurotypical peers. It didn't work well for ie. It had a

low teacher student ratio but greenspan follows the child's lead which resulted

in the program being very unstructured. He didn't respond well to the lack of

structure. Now he's in a different private school who follows a behavioral

model - not discrete trial but they do have a token system and it is structured.

He loves the school and now that he's older just turned nine I have to include

him in the decision making process if another change is needed. Anyhow in the

school he attends now, student population is HFA/ Aspie/ bipolar. Bipolar kids

are good peer models socially. He also has RDI infused at home daily and at

school-biweekly and attends biweekly dyads. Make no mistake RDI is ABA just not

discrete trial. It is systematic and you have to prove mastery before objectives

are changed. The objectives are worked on during play and it is not rote

teaching. But that why I like it and the majority of the work falls on the

parents. Greenspan I think its hard to truly determine progress and what's

working. The IEP. Is supposed to be a fluid document so you should be able to

evaluate after trying a program and if he doesn't respond you should be able to

have an IEP meeting to discuss a change in placement (at least that how it works

in NJ don't know FL ) NJ's public schools are not prepared for HFA kids. There

programs are fractured and borderline archaic its either your kids in a

self-contained class or in gened with resource room for reading and math. Don't

see why public schools can't model their programs after the private schools.

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

[Guest guest]

It may not be a good idea to have the child tap another child on the shoulder due to possibilities of overreactions by the other child/staff or your child and could lead to problems with personal space issues.

To: sList Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 5:12:43 AMSubject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

You can add social goals to IEP.

Ex: _____ will tap another child on the shoulder (with verbal/gestural/visual prompts/cues, independently) to gain his/her attention in 8 out of 10 opportunities.

____ will greet peers and staff (with verbal/visual cues, independently) upon entering classroom in 8 to 10 opportunities.

____ will ask another peer to play an active game on the playground in 8 to 10 opportunities.

I put "verbal/gestural/visual" but all goals really should be "independently."

If you add social goals, the staff will have to focus on them. If your child's teacher is flexible, you can offer or provide some of the research on social skills training and strategies.

From: Shiri

Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:22 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Thanks for your input, I know Baudhuin is a great school, my sister and cousin will actually be teaching there this upcoming year (they are grad students for school pych at nova) so if he did go I know they'd look out for him. The place program he is supposed to attend will have speech and OT but only once a week for a half an hour. I don't know if they have an autism coach or if they're trained in ABA, but his teacher last year in PLACE had a masters in special education. None of the children in his class have an official diagnosis of ASD (which is not to say that they don't have it since the school board doesn't require a diagnosis just a developmental delay dx.) The new teacher sounds very nice and supportive and said that b/c he is the only one who is dx asd (the others she says are only language delayed) that he would get more attention/support. When he was in place last year the other children would hug him and take him by the hand, and help put

on his weighted lap pad when he needed it. I feel like everyone benefits from a child with special needs in the class. But he also didn't get enough one-on-one for skill building which he really needs, and the program's focus is completely language based and not as much on social skills that asd kids have problems with. I guess we just need to try this new school and teacher ans see how it goes!>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. Looking back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity. > > All of this depends on the

particular program and the teachers/aides in the program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a PLACE program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism coach on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have more language/social skills he can learn from.> > Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any, opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that

developmental stage. > > Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each program. But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good luck!> > > > From: Shiri > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM> To: sList > Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?> > > > Hi all, > I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a specialized school for Autism. > Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3 1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was sick all the time. So he

really didn't progress much as far as learning new skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the time with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think 2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least

restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and not know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it might be too much for him.> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so noises

and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space (e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table). I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice! > Thanks!> Shiri>

[Guest guest]

It's been used in the Leaps programs for years and that has not been mentioned to be problematic. Especially when it's preframed for the kids. It's a very functional skill.Sent from my iPhone

It may not be a good idea to have the child tap another child on the shoulder due to possibilities of overreactions by the other child/staff or your child and could lead to problems with personal space issues.

To: sList Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 5:12:43 AMSubject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

You can add social goals to IEP.

Ex: _____ will tap another child on the shoulder (with verbal/gestural/visual prompts/cues, independently) to gain his/her attention in 8 out of 10 opportunities.

____ will greet peers and staff (with verbal/visual cues, independently) upon entering classroom in 8 to 10 opportunities.

____ will ask another peer to play an active game on the playground in 8 to 10 opportunities.

I put "verbal/gestural/visual" but all goals really should be "independently."

If you add social goals, the staff will have to focus on them. If your child's teacher is flexible, you can offer or provide some of the research on social skills training and strategies.

From: Shiri

Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:22 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Thanks for your input, I know Baudhuin is a great school, my sister and cousin will actually be teaching there this upcoming year (they are grad students for school pych at nova) so if he did go I know they'd look out for him. The place program he is supposed to attend will have speech and OT but only once a week for a half an hour. I don't know if they have an autism coach or if they're trained in ABA, but his teacher last year in PLACE had a masters in special education. None of the children in his class have an official diagnosis of ASD (which is not to say that they don't have it since the school board doesn't require a diagnosis just a developmental delay dx.) The new teacher sounds very nice and supportive and said that b/c he is the only one who is dx asd (the others she says are only language delayed) that he would get more attention/support. When he was in place last year the other children would hug him and take him by the hand, and help put

on his weighted lap pad when he needed it. I feel like everyone benefits from a child with special needs in the class. But he also didn't get enough one-on-one for skill building which he really needs, and the program's focus is completely language based and not as much on social skills that asd kids have problems with. I guess we just need to try this new school and teacher ans see how it goes!>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. Looking back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity. > > All of this depends on the

particular program and the teachers/aides in the program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a PLACE program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism coach on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have more language/social skills he can learn from.> > Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any, opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that

developmental stage. > > Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each program. But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good luck!> > > > From: Shiri > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM> To: sList > Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?> > > > Hi all, > I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a specialized school for Autism. > Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3 1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was sick all the time. So he

really didn't progress much as far as learning new skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the time with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think 2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least

restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and not know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it might be too much for him.> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so noises

and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space (e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table). I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice! > Thanks!> Shiri>

[Guest guest]

dibolton, thanks for your advice, we are also doing RDI but its not as much in

the forefront as I would like it to be. We just don't have the time, with all

the other therapies!

>

> Your son sounds similar to my son. During EI he had greenspan and ABA. We

felt like he needed ABA to develop lang so when he was younger 3-5 he attended a

private school- ABA program-discrete trial we did greenspan at home. From we

changed prog bcz he didn't have good peer models so when he was 5-6yrs old he

attended a different private school with a greenspan approach and it was

integrated with neurotypical peers. It didn't work well for ie. It had a

low teacher student ratio but greenspan follows the child's lead which resulted

in the program being very unstructured. He didn't respond well to the lack of

structure. Now he's in a different private school who follows a behavioral

model - not discrete trial but they do have a token system and it is structured.

He loves the school and now that he's older just turned nine I have to include

him in the decision making process if another change is needed. Anyhow in the

school he attends now, student population is HFA/ Aspie/ bipolar. Bipolar kids

are good peer models socially. He also has RDI infused at home daily and at

school-biweekly and attends biweekly dyads. Make no mistake RDI is ABA just not

discrete trial. It is systematic and you have to prove mastery before objectives

are changed. The objectives are worked on during play and it is not rote

teaching. But that why I like it and the majority of the work falls on the

parents. Greenspan I think its hard to truly determine progress and what's

working. The IEP. Is supposed to be a fluid document so you should be able to

evaluate after trying a program and if he doesn't respond you should be able to

have an IEP meeting to discuss a change in placement (at least that how it works

in NJ don't know FL ) NJ's public schools are not prepared for HFA kids. There

programs are fractured and borderline archaic its either your kids in a

self-contained class or in gened with resource room for reading and math. Don't

see why public schools can't model their programs after the private schools.

> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

>

[Guest guest]

Tapping on the shoulder is very functional and appropriate skill to learn. It can be especially important for a non verbal child to appropriately request the attention of another. Maybe some children are bothered by this but this is part of life. I don't think it will be possible to avoid a gentle tap on the shoulder in the real world. Regardless, most children won't mind and anyways this is another reason why these children should be among typical peers. Going back to the other post, I strongly disagree that Baudhuin uses ABA. Fran

It may not be a good idea to have the child tap another child on the shoulder due to possibilities of overreactions by the other child/staff or your child and could lead to problems with personal space issues.

To: sList Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 5:12:43

AMSubject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

You can add social goals to IEP.

Ex: _____ will tap another child on the shoulder (with verbal/gestural/visual prompts/cues, independently) to gain his/her attention in 8 out of 10 opportunities.

____ will greet peers and staff (with verbal/visual cues, independently) upon entering classroom in 8 to 10 opportunities.

____ will ask another peer to play an active game on the playground in 8 to 10 opportunities.

I put "verbal/gestural/visual" but all goals really should be "independently."

If you add social goals, the staff will have to focus on them. If your child's teacher is flexible, you can offer or provide some of the research on social skills training and strategies.

From: Shiri

Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:22 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Thanks for your input, I know Baudhuin is a great school, my sister and cousin will actually be teaching there this upcoming year (they are grad students for school pych at nova) so if he did go I know they'd look out for him. The place program he is supposed to attend will have speech and OT but only once a week for a half an hour. I don't know if they have an autism coach or if they're trained in ABA, but his teacher last year in PLACE had a masters in special education. None of the children in his class have an official diagnosis of ASD (which is not to say that they don't have it since the school board doesn't require a diagnosis just a developmental delay dx.) The new teacher sounds very nice and supportive and said that b/c he is the only one who is dx asd (the others she says are only language delayed) that he would get more attention/support. When he was in place last year the other children would hug him and take him by the hand, and help put

on his weighted lap pad when he needed it. I feel like everyone benefits from a child with special needs in the class. But he also didn't get enough one-on-one for skill building which he really needs, and the program's focus is completely language based and not as much on social skills that asd kids have problems with. I guess we just need to try this new school and teacher ans see how it goes!>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. Looking back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be

around kids with other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity. > > All of this depends on the

particular program and the teachers/aides in the program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a PLACE program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism coach on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have more language/social skills he can learn from.> > Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any, opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that

developmental stage. > > Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each program. But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good luck!> > > > From: Shiri > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM> To: sList > Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?> > > > Hi all, > I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a specialized school for Autism. > Last year my son attended the PLACE

program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3 1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was sick all the time. So he

really didn't progress much as far as learning new skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the time with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think 2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least

restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and not know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it might be too much for him.> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so noises

and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space (e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table). I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice! > Thanks!> Shiri>

[Guest guest]

I would definitely opt for the PLACE program.

At Baudhuin he will be immersed in all things autism.

As always, much will depend on the teacher & class aides, however when my son attended Baudhuin, I felt like he was met with lowered expectations.

The opportunity to interact with children without autism is invaluable.

[Guest guest]

Good evening,

My daughter just left Baudhuin and was there for 2 years....The fact is Autism is Autism...there is nothing we can do for the challenges that our children will be facing in there life but learning ourself how to handle them and help them to face those challenges the best we can. The best way to do this is educate ourself in the strategies that are going to help them to reach their potential. Baudhuin not only offer a good quality education for our children with VERY WELL trained staff...they are also offering a lot of training for us parents that were priceless for me. I had the same questions at one point about her not beeing with social interaction with typical peers...but the fact is that they are young and that they need the early intervention by well trained staff in autism to acquire the skill needed to face kindergarten. There is a lot opportunities in the community to teach them social skills with typical peers. Everyday life

is a opportunity for children with ASD to learn social skills...with peers or adults. When I look back at how my daughter was when she entered Baudhuin...and how she is now that she just exited. I would not change those 2 years for nothing. The support that her and I received there is PRICELESS.

I wish you good luck with everything.

Nathalie

nathalie.adams@...

[Guest guest]

Fran,

Perhaps you are correct that Baudhuin may not use ABA. Let me rephrase. They are trained in ABA methodology; at least DTT (Discrete Trial Training-as part of the STAR curriculum, which is DTT). They have at least 2 (counting Manny is 3) BCBA's on staff. One may be a BCaBA.

When my son attended, the first year, he had an amazing teacher who had excellent teaching skills and behavioral techniques. The second year, the teacher became burned out halfway through the year, due to lack of support from administration I believe. Therefore, her class fell apart, with my son in it. The second year, I witnessed a lot of forced compliance with kids. I don't think that's necessary or beneficial now that I have experience with ABA.

However, I also see a lot of forced compliance in schools throughout...

From: e c

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:09 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Tapping on the shoulder is very functional and appropriate skill to learn. It can be especially important for a non verbal child to appropriately request the attention of another. Maybe some children are bothered by this but this is part of life. I don't think it will be possible to avoid a gentle tap on the shoulder in the real world. Regardless, most children won't mind and anyways this is another reason why these children should be among typical peers. Going back to the other post, I strongly disagree that Baudhuin uses ABA. Fran

It may not be a good idea to have the child tap another child on the shoulder due to possibilities of overreactions by the other child/staff or your child and could lead to problems with personal space issues.

To: sList Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 5:12:43 AMSubject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

You can add social goals to IEP.

Ex: _____ will tap another child on the shoulder (with verbal/gestural/visual prompts/cues, independently) to gain his/her attention in 8 out of 10 opportunities.

____ will greet peers and staff (with verbal/visual cues, independently) upon entering classroom in 8 to 10 opportunities.

____ will ask another peer to play an active game on the playground in 8 to 10 opportunities.

I put "verbal/gestural/visual" but all goals really should be "independently."

If you add social goals, the staff will have to focus on them. If your child's teacher is flexible, you can offer or provide some of the research on social skills training and strategies.

From: Shiri

Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:22 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Thanks for your input, I know Baudhuin is a great school, my sister and cousin will actually be teaching there this upcoming year (they are grad students for school pych at nova) so if he did go I know they'd look out for him. The place program he is supposed to attend will have speech and OT but only once a week for a half an hour. I don't know if they have an autism coach or if they're trained in ABA, but his teacher last year in PLACE had a masters in special education. None of the children in his class have an official diagnosis of ASD (which is not to say that they don't have it since the school board doesn't require a diagnosis just a developmental delay dx.) The new teacher sounds very nice and supportive and said that b/c he is the only one who is dx asd (the others she says are only language delayed) that he would get more attention/support. When he was in place last year the other children would hug him and take him by the hand, and help put on his weighted lap pad when he needed it. I feel like everyone benefits from a child with special needs in the class. But he also didn't get enough one-on-one for skill building which he really needs, and the program's focus is completely language based and not as much on social skills that asd kids have problems with. I guess we just need to try this new school and teacher ans see how it goes!>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. Looking back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity. > > All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in the program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a PLACE program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism coach on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have more language/social skills he can learn from.> > Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any, opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that developmental stage. > > Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each program. But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good luck!> > > > From: Shiri > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM> To: sList > Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?> > > > Hi all, > I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a specialized school for Autism. > Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3 1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning new skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the time with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think 2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and not know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it might be too much for him.> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space (e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table). I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice! > Thanks!> Shiri>

[Guest guest]

If he attended Sheridan Hills do you know who his teacher would be? They have

two PLACE classes there. My son was there last year and had Buono. If you

can get him in her class than I would strongly consider sending him there. She's

an amazing teacher and goes out of the way to work with our kids. She also has a

great assistant who has personal experience with ASD. If you have any questions

contact me offline. But is the best. I only wish my son had more than one

year with her.

>

> I would definitely opt for the PLACE program.

>

> At Baudhuin he will be immersed in all things autism.

>

> As always, much will depend on the teacher & class aides, however when my son

attended Baudhuin, I felt like he was met with lowered expectations.

>

> The opportunity to interact with children without autism is invaluable.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for all your replies, its great to hear experiences from those

who have been there. We decided to give Sheridan Hills a try - we spoke to his

teacher (it Mrs Buono) and she is very supportive and I have heard such

wonderful things about her. She is supportive of pulling him out at 12 for

therapies so that he can work one on one for gaining skills. I feel that at this

age the other typical kids don't really notice that he's that different and this

is a good way to expose him early to social interactions without the anxiety

that comes later (when hes older) with peer pressure. The more I read about

inclusion the more I think how important it is, especially if its done right

with a supportive teacher.

Again, thank you guys so much!

Shiri

> >

> > I would definitely opt for the PLACE program.

> >

> > At Baudhuin he will be immersed in all things autism.

> >

> > As always, much will depend on the teacher & class aides, however when my

son attended Baudhuin, I felt like he was met with lowered expectations.

> >

> > The opportunity to interact with children without autism is invaluable.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shiri,

What did you decide on, Place or Baudhuin? How is he doing?

Liz

To: sList Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 5:19:20 AMSubject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Fran,

Perhaps you are correct that Baudhuin may not use ABA. Let me rephrase. They are trained in ABA methodology; at least DTT (Discrete Trial Training-as part of the STAR curriculum, which is DTT). They have at least 2 (counting Manny is 3) BCBA's on staff. One may be a BCaBA.

When my son attended, the first year, he had an amazing teacher who had excellent teaching skills and behavioral techniques. The second year, the teacher became burned out halfway through the year, due to lack of support from administration I believe. Therefore, her class fell apart, with my son in it. The second year, I witnessed a lot of forced compliance with kids. I don't think that's necessary or beneficial now that I have experience with ABA.

However, I also see a lot of forced compliance in schools throughout...

From: e c

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:09 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Tapping on the shoulder is very functional and appropriate skill to learn. It can be especially important for a non verbal child to appropriately request the attention of another. Maybe some children are bothered by this but this is part of life. I don't think it will be possible to avoid a gentle tap on the shoulder in the real world. Regardless, most children won't mind and anyways this is another reason why these children should be among typical peers. Going back to the other post, I strongly disagree that Baudhuin uses ABA. Fran

It may not be a good idea to have the child tap another child on the shoulder due to possibilities of overreactions by the other child/staff or your child and could lead to problems with personal space issues.

To: sList Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 5:12:43 AMSubject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

You can add social goals to IEP.

Ex: _____ will tap another child on the shoulder (with verbal/gestural/visual prompts/cues, independently) to gain his/her attention in 8 out of 10 opportunities.

____ will greet peers and staff (with verbal/visual cues, independently) upon entering classroom in 8 to 10 opportunities.

____ will ask another peer to play an active game on the playground in 8 to 10 opportunities.

I put "verbal/gestural/visual" but all goals really should be "independently."

If you add social goals, the staff will have to focus on them. If your child's teacher is flexible, you can offer or provide some of the research on social skills training and strategies.

From: Shiri

Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:22 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Thanks for your input, I know Baudhuin is a great school, my sister and cousin will actually be teaching there this upcoming year (they are grad students for school pych at nova) so if he did go I know they'd look out for him. The place program he is supposed to attend will have speech and OT but only once a week for a half an hour. I don't know if they have an autism coach or if they're trained in ABA, but his teacher last year in PLACE had a masters in special education. None of the children in his class have an official diagnosis of ASD (which is not to say that they don't have it since the school board doesn't require a diagnosis just a developmental delay dx.) The new teacher sounds very nice and supportive and said that b/c he is the only one who is dx asd (the others she says are only language delayed) that he would get more attention/support. When he was in place last year the other children would hug him and take him by the hand, and help put

on his weighted lap pad when he needed it. I feel like everyone benefits from a child with special needs in the class. But he also didn't get enough one-on-one for skill building which he really needs, and the program's focus is completely language based and not as much on social skills that asd kids have problems with. I guess we just need to try this new school and teacher ans see how it goes!>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. Looking back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity. > > All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in the program. How many support services will

your son receive if placed in a PLACE program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism coach on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have more language/social skills he can learn from.> > Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any, opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that developmental stage. > > Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros

and cons of each program. But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good luck!> > > > From: Shiri > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM> To: sList > Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?> > > > Hi all, > I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a specialized school for Autism. > Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3 1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning new skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for

him to handle at the time with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think 2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a controlled environment. I don't

want him to go out into the real world and not know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it might be too much for him.> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with coordination and motor planning and has

issues navigating his body in space (e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table). I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice! > Thanks!> Shiri>

[Guest guest]

Liz,

We decided to put him in place and hes doing amazing! He is so excited to go to

school in the morning and is very happy. His teacher says he's doing great, he

follows directions, transitions well, and uses spontaneous speech. He's not

playing with the other kids yet, but its his first week so I expect that. The

teacher is just wonderful and really understands and accepts kids with ASD even

though most of the children in her class have only a language delay. I think its

important to have a teacher who believes that our kids have a right to be

included and is supportive of them being there. I'm so glad I made this

decision! I also did an intense social skills group over the summer so I think

that helped him to be able to function better in a group setting this year.

Thanks for asking and for everyone's advice!

Shiri

> >>>>

> >>>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time.

Looking

> >>>>back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son

> >>>>benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with

other

> >>>>special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity.

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in

the

> >>>>program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a

PLACE

> >>>>program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism

coach on

> >>>>site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the

make up

> >>>>of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs

and

> >>>>what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have

more

> >>>>language/social skills he can learn from.

> >>>>

> >>>> Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any,

> >>>>opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well

trained in

> >>>>ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support

staff

> >>>>is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though

either so

> >>>>it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over

and

> >>>>over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that

> >>>>developmental stage.

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each

program.

> >>>>But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good

luck!

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> From: Shiri

> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM

> >>>> To: sList

> >>>> Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Hi all,

> >>>> I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with

high

> >>>>functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is

a

> >>>>specialized school for Autism.

> >>>>

> >>>> Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started

at 3

> >>>>1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c

he was

> >>>>sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning

new

> >>>>skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were

> >>>>friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the

time

> >>>>with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)

> >>>> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at

Sheridan

> >>>>Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have

doubts

> >>>>that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new

place

> >>>>class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the

year

> >>>>progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have

> >>>>diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are

> >>>>substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I

think

> >>>>2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language

more

> >>>>intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least

> >>>>restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children

and

> >>>>learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a

> >>>>controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and

not

> >>>>know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we

have

> >>>>taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to

put

> >>>>him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to

master

> >>>>it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm

afraid

> >>>>he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c

it

> >>>>might be too much for him.

> >>>> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating

> >>>>sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with

pronouns

> >>>>and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word

> >>>>sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and

so

> >>>>noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things

around

> >>>>him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with

> >>>>coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in

space

> >>>>(e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a

table).

> >>>>I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals

and

> >>>>ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get

him what

> >>>>he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these

> >>>>schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice!

> >>>>

> >>>> Thanks!

> >>>> Shiri

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

>

[Guest guest]

What is forced compliance?

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of austintandt@...

Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 5:19 AM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or

Baudhuin?

Fran,

Perhaps

you are correct that Baudhuin may not use ABA. Let me rephrase.

They are trained in ABA methodology; at least DTT (Discrete Trial Training-as

part of the STAR curriculum, which is DTT). They have at least 2

(counting Manny is 3) BCBA's on staff. One may be a BCaBA.

When

my son attended, the first year, he had an amazing teacher who had excellent

teaching skills and behavioral techniques. The second year, the teacher

became burned out halfway through the year, due to lack of support from

administration I believe. Therefore, her class fell apart, with my son in

it. The second year, I witnessed a lot of forced compliance with

kids. I don't think that's necessary or beneficial now that I have

experience with ABA.

However,

I also see a lot of forced compliance in schools throughout...

From: e c

Sent: Wednesday, August

18, 2010 9:09 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re:

Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Tapping on the shoulder is very functional and appropriate

skill to learn. It can be especially important for a non verbal child to

appropriately request the attention of another. Maybe some children are

bothered by this but this is part of life. I don't think it will be possible

to avoid a gentle tap on the shoulder in the real world. Regardless, most

children won't mind and anyways this is another reason why these children

should be among typical peers.

Going back to the other post, I strongly disagree that Baudhuin uses ABA.

Fran

It may not be a good idea to have the child tap another

child on the shoulder due to possibilities of overreactions by the other

child/staff or your child and could lead to problems with personal space

issues.

From: " austintandt@... "

To: sList

Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 5:12:43 AM

Subject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or

Baudhuin?

You

can add social goals to IEP.

Ex:

_____ will tap another child on the shoulder (with verbal/gestural/visual

prompts/cues, independently) to gain his/her attention in 8 out of 10

opportunities.

____

will greet peers and staff (with verbal/visual cues, independently) upon

entering classroom in 8 to 10 opportunities.

____

will ask another peer to play an active game on the playground in 8 to 10

opportunities.

I

put " verbal/gestural/visual " but all goals really should be

" independently. "

If

you add social goals, the staff will have to focus on them. If your

child's teacher is flexible, you can offer or provide some of the research on

social skills training and strategies.

From: Shiri

Sent: Tuesday, August

17, 2010 7:22 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re:

School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Thanks for your input, I know Baudhuin is a

great school, my sister and cousin will actually be teaching there this

upcoming year (they are grad students for school pych at nova) so if he did

go I know they'd look out for him. The place program he is supposed to attend

will have speech and OT but only once a week for a half an hour. I don't know

if they have an autism coach or if they're trained in ABA, but his teacher

last year in PLACE had a masters in special education. None of the children

in his class have an official diagnosis of ASD (which is not to say that they

don't have it since the school board doesn't require a diagnosis just a

developmental delay dx.) The new teacher sounds very nice and supportive and

said that b/c he is the only one who is dx asd (the others she says are only

language delayed) that he would get more attention/support. When he was in

place last year the other children would hug him and take him by the hand,

and help put on his weighted lap pad when he needed it. I feel like everyone

benefits from a child with special needs in the class. But he also didn't get

enough one-on-one for skill building which he really needs, and the program's

focus is completely language based and not as much on social skills that asd

kids have problems with. I guess we just need to try this new school and

teacher ans see how it goes!

>

> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time.

Looking back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my

son benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids

with other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great

opportunity.

>

> All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in

the program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a

PLACE program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism

coach on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is

the make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other

special needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may

have who have more language/social skills he can learn from.

>

> Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any,

opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained

in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support

staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though

either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task

over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for

that developmental stage.

>

> Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each

program. But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say.

Good luck!

>

>

>

> From: Shiri

> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM

> To: sList

> Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

>

>

>

> Hi all,

> I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with

high functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which

is a specialized school for Autism.

> Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started

at 3 1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days

b/c he was sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as

learning new skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the

children were friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to

handle at the time with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and

one aide.)

> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at

Sheridan Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to

have doubts that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin.

The new place class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger

as the year progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do

not have diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are

substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I

think 2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and

language more intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and

a least restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical

children and learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too

much of a controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real

world and not know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based,

and we have taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm

reluctant to put him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row

in order to master it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the

place program I'm afraid he'll just sink and not be able to really learn

anything or progress b/c it might be too much for him.

> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating

sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with

pronouns and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10

word sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing

and so noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process

things around him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor

issues with coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his

body in space (e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when

sitting at a table). I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid

that my ideals and ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my

decision to get him what he really needs. If anyone has had experience with

either of these schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice!

> Thanks!

> Shiri

>

[Guest guest]

Shiri,

this sounds good. I would very much like to hear how things go throughout the school year. Does your school have a cluster for ASD kids?

Liz

________________________________To: sList Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 5:51:38 PMSubject: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin? Liz,We decided to put him in place and hes doing amazing! He is so excited to go to school in the morning and is very happy. His teacher says he's doing great, he follows directions, transitions well, and uses spontaneous speech. He's not playing with the other kids yet, but its his first week so I expect that. The teacher is just wonderful and really understands and accepts kids with ASD even though most of the children in her class have only a language delay. I think its important to have a teacher who believes that our kids have a right to be included and is supportive of them being there. I'm so glad I made this decision! I also did an intense social skills

group over the summer so I think that helped him to be able to function better in a group setting this year.Thanks for asking and for everyone's advice!Shiri > >>>>> >>>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. >Looking >> >>>>back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son > >>>>benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with >other >> >>>>special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity. > >>>>> >>>> > >>>> All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in >the >> >>>>program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a >PLACE >> >>>>program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is

there an autism >coach on >> >>>>site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the >make up >> >>>>of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs >and >> >>>>what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have >more >> >>>>language/social skills he can learn from.> >>>> > >>>> Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any, > >>>>opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well >trained in >> >>>>ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support >staff >> >>>>is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though either >so >>

>>>>it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over and >> >>>>over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that > >>>>developmental stage. > >>>>> >>>> > >>>> Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each >program. >> >>>>But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good >luck!> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> From: Shiri > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM> >>>> To: sList > >>>> Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi

all, > >>>> I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with >high >> >>>>functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is >a >> >>>>specialized school for Autism. > >>>>> >>>> Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at >3 >> >>>>1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c >he was >> >>>>sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning new >> >>>>skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were > >>>>friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the >time >> >>>>with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one

teacher and one aide.)> >>>> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at >Sheridan >> >>>>Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have >doubts >> >>>>that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new >place >> >>>>class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year >> >>>>progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have > >>>>diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are > >>>>substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I >think >> >>>>2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language >more >> >>>>intensely. My conflict

is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least > >>>>restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children >and >> >>>>learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a > >>>>controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and >not >> >>>>know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have >> >>>>taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to >put >> >>>>him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to >master >> >>>>it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm >afraid >> >>>>he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it

>> >>>>might be too much for him.> >>>> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating > >>>>sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with >pronouns >> >>>>and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word > >>>>sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and >so >> >>>>noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things >around >> >>>>him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with > >>>>coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space >> >>>>(e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a >table). >>

>>>>I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and >> >>>>ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him >what >> >>>>he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these > >>>>schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice! > >>>>> >>>> Thanks!> >>>> Shiri> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>

[Guest guest]

They don't have a cluster, most of the kids went on to Stirling Elementary which

I hear has a good program as well. They have an " Assisted K " program there where

some of the prek kids from last year are now going to.

> > >>>>

> > >>>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time.

> >Looking

> >

> > >>>>back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son

> > >>>>benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids

with

>

> >other

> >

> > >>>>special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity.

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>> All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in

> >the

> >

> > >>>>program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a

> >PLACE

> >

> > >>>>program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism

> >coach on

> >

> > >>>>site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the

> >make up

> >

> > >>>>of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special

needs

>

> >and

> >

> > >>>>what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have

> >more

> >

> > >>>>language/social skills he can learn from.

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any,

> > >>>>opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well

> >trained in

> >

> > >>>>ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the

support

> >staff

> >

> > >>>>is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though

either

> >

> >so

> >

> > >>>>it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over

and

> >

> >

> > >>>>over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that

> > >>>>developmental stage.

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each

> >program.

> >

> > >>>>But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say.

Good

> >luck!

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>> From: Shiri

> > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM

> > >>>> To: sList

> > >>>> Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Hi all,

> > >>>> I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with

> >high

> >

> > >>>>functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which

is

>

> >a

> >

> > >>>>specialized school for Autism.

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started

at

> >

> >3

> >

> > >>>>1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days

b/c

> >he was

> >

> > >>>>sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning

new

> >

> >

> > >>>>skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children

were

> > >>>>friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at

the

>

> >time

> >

> > >>>>with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)

> > >>>> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at

> >Sheridan

> >

> > >>>>Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have

> >doubts

> >

> > >>>>that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The

new

> >place

> >

> > >>>>class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the

year

> >

> >

> > >>>>progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have

> > >>>>diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are

> > >>>>substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I

> >think

> >

> > >>>>2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and

language

> >more

> >

> > >>>>intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least

> > >>>>restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children

> >and

> >

> > >>>>learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a

> > >>>>controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world

and

>

> >not

> >

> > >>>>know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we

have

> >

> >

> > >>>>taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant

to

> >put

> >

> > >>>>him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to

> >master

> >

> > >>>>it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program

I'm

> >afraid

> >

> > >>>>he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c

it

> >

> >

> > >>>>might be too much for him.

> > >>>> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than

repeating

> > >>>>sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with

> >pronouns

> >

> > >>>>and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word

> > >>>>sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing

and

> >so

> >

> > >>>>noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things

> >around

> >

> > >>>>him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with

> > >>>>coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in

space

> >

> >

> > >>>>(e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a

> >table).

> >

> > >>>>I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals

and

> >

> >

> > >>>>ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get

him

> >

> >what

> >

> > >>>>he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these

> > >>>>schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice!

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Thanks!

> > >>>> Shiri

> > >>>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

physically making a child complete certain actions because the adult told them to do so.

For example, a teacher or aide may say it's time to do a table task. The kid is not motivated for whatever reason and lays on the floor. The teacher or aide physically picks them up and sits them in the chair and does hand over hand to make them complete the task. That is minor. There are more things that seem to be disrespectful to the child, giving them no leeway to feel competent and like they want to do it. There are times to physically guide but I believe in getting the kid to want to do it. ABA strategies would build a relationship with the child first, using whatever available, then the teacher becomes the "cookie" so to speak. Then the child works for the teacher and for the sheer pleasure of pleasing. It takes more work which doesn't often fit into peoples day.

Hope this helps...

From: Heifferon

Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:46 PM

To: sList

Subject: RE: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

What is forced compliance?

From: sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf Of austintandt@...Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 5:19 AMTo: sList Subject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Fran,

Perhaps you are correct that Baudhuin may not use ABA. Let me rephrase. They are trained in ABA methodology; at least DTT (Discrete Trial Training-as part of the STAR curriculum, which is DTT). They have at least 2 (counting Manny is 3) BCBA's on staff. One may be a BCaBA.

When my son attended, the first year, he had an amazing teacher who had excellent teaching skills and behavioral techniques. The second year, the teacher became burned out halfway through the year, due to lack of support from administration I believe. Therefore, her class fell apart, with my son in it. The second year, I witnessed a lot of forced compliance with kids. I don't think that's necessary or beneficial now that I have experience with ABA.

However, I also see a lot of forced compliance in schools throughout...

From: e c

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:09 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Tapping on the shoulder is very functional and appropriate skill to learn. It can be especially important for a non verbal child to appropriately request the attention of another. Maybe some children are bothered by this but this is part of life. I don't think it will be possible to avoid a gentle tap on the shoulder in the real world. Regardless, most children won't mind and anyways this is another reason why these children should be among typical peers. Going back to the other post, I strongly disagree that Baudhuin uses ABA. Fran

It may not be a good idea to have the child tap another child on the shoulder due to possibilities of overreactions by the other child/staff or your child and could lead to problems with personal space issues.

To: sList Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 5:12:43 AMSubject: Re: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

You can add social goals to IEP.

Ex: _____ will tap another child on the shoulder (with verbal/gestural/visual prompts/cues, independently) to gain his/her attention in 8 out of 10 opportunities.

____ will greet peers and staff (with verbal/visual cues, independently) upon entering classroom in 8 to 10 opportunities.

____ will ask another peer to play an active game on the playground in 8 to 10 opportunities.

I put "verbal/gestural/visual" but all goals really should be "independently."

If you add social goals, the staff will have to focus on them. If your child's teacher is flexible, you can offer or provide some of the research on social skills training and strategies.

From: Shiri

Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:22 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?

Thanks for your input, I know Baudhuin is a great school, my sister and cousin will actually be teaching there this upcoming year (they are grad students for school pych at nova) so if he did go I know they'd look out for him. The place program he is supposed to attend will have speech and OT but only once a week for a half an hour. I don't know if they have an autism coach or if they're trained in ABA, but his teacher last year in PLACE had a masters in special education. None of the children in his class have an official diagnosis of ASD (which is not to say that they don't have it since the school board doesn't require a diagnosis just a developmental delay dx.) The new teacher sounds very nice and supportive and said that b/c he is the only one who is dx asd (the others she says are only language delayed) that he would get more attention/support. When he was in place last year the other children would hug him and take him by the hand, and help put on his weighted lap pad when he needed it. I feel like everyone benefits from a child with special needs in the class. But he also didn't get enough one-on-one for skill building which he really needs, and the program's focus is completely language based and not as much on social skills that asd kids have problems with. I guess we just need to try this new school and teacher ans see how it goes!>> My son attended Baudhuin, which I believe met his needs at that time. Looking back, there were some really great aspects about the school and my son benefitted. However, the opportunity for your child to be around kids with other special needs and not all kids with asd is, well, a great opportunity. > > All of this depends on the particular program and the teachers/aides in the program. How many support services will your son receive if placed in a PLACE program? Will he receive OT, PT and Speech/Language? Is there an autism coach on site? Are the teachers and aides trained in ABA methodology? What is the make up of the classroom? How many kids are asd? How many have other special needs and what are they? That is to get an idea of the models he may have who have more language/social skills he can learn from.> > Baudhuin is very specific to autism but there are very limited, if any, opportunities for inclusion with typical kids. But, the staff is well trained in ABA strategies and there are 4 autism coaches on site and all the support staff is also on site. ABA is not all about discrete trial training though either so it is unlikely anyone would have your child complete the same task over and over. It would only be to mastery and those that are functional for that developmental stage. > > Sounds like you are going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each program. But the opportunity for peer interactions is a benefit. Hard to say. Good luck!> > > > From: Shiri > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:21 AM> To: sList > Subject: School Placement: PLACE program or Baudhuin?> > > > Hi all, > I am conflicted about whether to send my 4 year old son (diagnosed with high functioning autism) to the PLACE program next year or to Baudhuin which is a specialized school for Autism. > Last year my son attended the PLACE program at Hawkes Bluff. He started at 3 1/2 and was there for 6 months, out of which he attended only 50 days b/c he was sick all the time. So he really didn't progress much as far as learning new skills or meeting his IEP goals. His teacher was great, the children were friendly, but the class size seemed to be too big for him to handle at the time with his sensory issues (they were 15 with one teacher and one aide.)> This upcoming year we planned to start him at the PLACE program at Sheridan Hills b/c it is closer to where we live. But we are beginning to have doubts that he might not progress there as much as he would at Baudhuin. The new place class will start off with 10 kids (but will probably get larger as the year progresses), with one teacher and aide. Most of the children do not have diagnosis's for autism. I know that at Baudhuin the class sizes are substantially smaller, there are more teacher and aides in each class (I think 2:1), and they really work with these kids on skill building and language more intensely. My conflict is that I'm a believer in Inclusion and a least restrictive environment for my kid, I want him to model typical children and learn how to adjust to the world without being handled in too much of a controlled environment. I don't want him to go out into the real world and not know how to handle it. Also, I know that Baudhuin is ABA based, and we have taken more of a floortime/RDI approach with our son, and I'm reluctant to put him in a setting where he has to do a task 18 times in a row in order to master it and move on. On the other hand, if I send him to the place program I'm afraid he'll just sink and not be able to really learn anything or progress b/c it might be too much for him.> He is a very compliant boy with no major behaviors (other than repeating sentences). He is very verbal (although still having some problems with pronouns and more complex language) and is able to express his needs in 7-10 word sentences. However, he has sensory issues that disrupt his processing and so noises and visual stimuli cause him to be disoriented and process things around him alot slower than everyone else. He also has some motor issues with coordination and motor planning and has issues navigating his body in space (e.g. he does much better following 3 step directions when sitting at a table). I don't know what would be better for him and I'm afraid that my ideals and ambitions to have him mainstreamed might be blinding my decision to get him what he really needs. If anyone has had experience with either of these schools/approaches I would be most grateful for ANY advice! > Thanks!> Shiri>