RE: don't post full text of articles

[Guest guest]

Dear Jonathon,

Thanks for a very reasoned answer to this concern. It was like a breath of fresh air.

I hope you are doing well.

Ali

Save Life - Be A Live Donor and An Organ and Tissue DonorAli Lingerfelt-Tait180 Blackberry Inn Rd.Weaverville, N.C. 28787also check out :http.//health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Livertx-PSC/It's a new sister site from the PSC Support Group that is for transplant issues.www.pscpartners.orgPSC Partners Support GroupBuy Notecards and Support Research for PSCCheck out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

[Guest guest]

-----Original

Message-----On Behalf Of

If you want to make a " local " rule that it's ok to post

copyrighted articles

in this group, we are at risk of having this group removed.

The moderator should set a direction, or should find a new home.

I don’t like being called an

immoral thief, and having someone threaten to turn me in. But I will admit the recent posts were good

for our collective blood circulation, sure keeps ya warm on a cold winter

night.

, the moderator doesn’t

need to make a rule. I’m more

than happy to “worry, shake and be scared out of my cowboy boots”

about this all by myself (maybe I’ll

burn off more Christmas calories that way!) I believe Yahoo doesn’t give a

Yahoo about this issue. I did a

quick search (as I have been known to do) and found this - Yahoo has

768 “liver”

groups

44,941 “heart”

groups

3,619 “leg”

groups (including: “leg worship” & “high heel lovers”!)

644 “lupus”

groups

871 “lung”

groups

13,429 “man love”

groups

5,826 “shoe”

groups

656 “purse”

groups

Just these 8 topics total

– 76,888 different groups! I

can’t even imagine what the grand total number is. Don’t you think almost (if not all)

of them are doing the very same thing we are? I can’t even imagine how many

people must write in and complain to Yahoo about their own group. We never leave off the author’s

name or fail to post where the article comes from. So all this has been - is an exercise in the

absurd.

Don’t worry, be

happy, it’s healthier.

Barb in Texas - Together in the Fight, Whatever it Takes!

Son Ken (33) UC 91 - PSC 99 - Tx 6/21 & 6/30/07 @ Baylor in Dallas

[Guest guest]

OK here's one moderators judgment on this topic::

There is a feeling out there that illegal copying doesn't affect anyone

or that at worst it affects only large faceless corporations who have

plenty of money anyway. I can tell you that that isn't true. I have

seen what happens to people who's work is pirated (in this case my

brother's new movie was posted online before it was even available in

stores. Extremely frustrating to someone who's worked for years on a

project and literally shed blood sweat and tears for it. Suddenly your

hopes for good sales, and maybe the chance to keep doing what you love

doing start to go out the window. He's not rich and neither are the

majority of people who work creating copyrighted material) So, yes

copying can really hurt real people really badly. It really is often

equivalent to breaking into their house and taking their stuff... they

lose, you gain.

At the same time, it's true that sometimes the copyright laws are

extremely difficult to understand, hard to interpret, and usually

totally unenforced in the kind of setting we are in. So it's not

surprising that people often tend to ignore them especially when they

can see the good it's doing, and can't see that it's hurting anyone in

any way. It's also not always so morally black and white. It's

unlikely that many of the people here will decide not to subscribe to a

journal because they are relying on posts here for their articles. (On

the other hand in this large of a group, some might, and others might

decide not to visit a website which uses traffic stats to charge it's

advertisers and thus to pay the copyright holder) So I can't really

say that those who do copy and post copyrighted material are necessarily

being immoral. It's a bit like speed limits. It's possible to break

them without hurting anyone, but you really can hurt people really

badly, especially if you do it irresponsibly.

For practical purposes though, this question can be answered without

recourse to moral questions. I can tell you that Yahoo *does*

definitely pay attention to this kind of thing. If there are complaints

about illegal activity in a group they are liable to delete the group.

Poof! Gone! With no chance of reinstatement. Sure we could re-form

the group but all our archives etc. and many members would be gone.

I've talked to other moderators who have had this kind of thing happen.

And like I say there isn't necessarily any warning or chance of reprieve.

So as a practical matter I'd like to request that everyone do his or her

best to follow the law and the Yahoo terms of service in regard to

this. You may not agree with the rules, but if they are broken there

are likely to be consequences. If we do things that are illegal or

that violate the Yahoo Terms of Service, we are endangering our group

and it's mission, and I don't think any of us want that to happen.

So read the websites you take articles from... if they forbid copying,

don't copy! Post a link and/or a short summary. Some sites invite you

to email the article (or a link). It's not always convenient, but

believe me it is more convenient than trying to reform the group all

over again!

Thanks for all your participation! I've posted some pertinent pieces

from the Yahoo terms of service below.

athan

from Yahoo terms of service:

" Yahoo! may, in appropriate circumstances and in its sole discretion,

terminate groups that appear to have violated our Terms of Service. "

" You agree to not use the Service to:

1.

upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any

Content that you do not have a right to make available under any

law or under contractual or fiduciary relationships (such as

inside information, proprietary and confidential information

learned or disclosed as part of employment relationships or under

nondisclosure agreements);

2.

upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any

Content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret,

copyright or other proprietary rights ( " Rights " ) of any party; "

[Guest guest]

Well Barb, it seems there may be truth in that old adage: No good

deed shall go unpunished.

Still, as has been pointed out, access to relevant scientific and

technical medical literature has been provided here for a number of

years now, and apparntly no one of consequence has objected; and I

suspect that will probably continue to be the case. And as you note,

info is always provided regarding author's name and where the

article comes from.

Thanks again for all your good work.

Fred H.

>

> -----Original Message-----On Behalf Of

> If you want to make a " local " rule that it's ok to post copyrighted

> articles in this group, we are at risk of having this group

removed.

> The moderator should set a direction, or should find a

new

> home.

>

> I don't like being called an immoral thief, and having someone

threaten

> to turn me in. But I will admit the recent posts were good for our

> collective blood circulation, sure keeps ya warm on a cold winter

night.

>

>

> , the moderator doesn't need to make a rule. I'm more than

happy

> to " worry, shake and be scared out of my cowboy boots " about this

all by

> myself (maybe I'll burn off more Christmas calories that way!) I

> believe Yahoo doesn't give a Yahoo about this issue. I did a quick

> search (as I have been known to do) and found this - Yahoo has

>

> 768 " liver " groups

> 44,941 " heart " groups

> 3,619 " leg " groups (including: " leg worship " & " high heel lovers " !)

> 644 " lupus " groups

> 871 " lung " groups

> 13,429 " man love " groups

> 5,826 " shoe " groups

> 656 " purse " groups

>

> Just these 8 topics total - 76,888 different groups! I can't even

> imagine what the grand total number is. Don't you think almost

(if not

> all) of them are doing the very same thing we are? I can't even

> imagine how many people must write in and complain to Yahoo about

their

> own group. We never leave off the author's name or fail to post

where

> the article comes from. So all this has been - is an exercise in

the

> absurd.

>

> Don't worry, be happy, it's healthier.

>

> Barb in Texas - Together in the Fight, Whatever it Takes!

> Son Ken (33) UC 91 - PSC 99 - Tx 6/21 & 6/30/07 @ Baylor in Dallas

>