VESTIBULITIS INFO Mast cells proliferation/ histamine etc. - Using Antihistamines

[Guest guest]

This is why antihistamines may work for 'some'. ~Chelle

======================

It is thought that a person with vestibulitis can have up to 10X's more MAST cells than the average person.Mast cells are white blood cells that are responsible for the body's allergic reactions. Mast cells secrete many different chemicals including histamine (which causes the itching and burning sensation), bradykinin and substance P which cause pain.

Some think vestibulitis/vestibulodynia is genetic and inborn. (Dr's - , Hasaday, Ledger, etc.) others think that external issues triggered that increase (of mast cells) with chemical abuse possibly with yeast meds.

Just as a side note I remember one of the women who I think talked with or knows about Dr. Ledger as to what he might use if one did have the V pain gene with double alleles, she said this...

''One of his possible treatments are the herb Pfaffia paniculata (an herb also called "suma" or "Brazilian ginseng," although it is not a ginseng), which he says is pure interleukin-1 receptor antagonist" (and we do want to halt that interleukin 1 Dee).

And he used to use VIOXX which today has been pulled from the market.

Here's a link that talks about the Mast cell proliferation:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/493971_print

A quick quote from it: (it's basically an article about using Capsaicin cream for V pain but it says this.............>

''Vestibular tissue removed from women who underwent surgery for VVS has been analyzed for nerve fiber density and the presence of mast cells; a significant increase in both the number of mast cells and the number of intraepithelial nerve endings, which are coarse and thickened, was reported.''

Here's another conclusion from this link. And you'll see those Mast cells again:

http://intapp.medscape.com/px/medlineapp/getdoc?pmi=15249746 & cid=med

it says in brief:

''The total nerve fiber area was ten times higher in vestibulitis patients than in controls. A significant positive correlation was found between the total nerve fiber area and the number of mast cells in the vestibulitis group of patients.

Conclusion:

(1) the presence of eight or more mast cells per 10 x 10 microscopic field, and

(2) the total calculated area of the nerve fibers is ten times higher than expected.'

Histamine ( and other cytokines/inflammatories) which some of you may have heard us talk about comes from very Mast Cells mentioned above. That's why you'll also hear us talk about adding an 'anti'-histamine to combat that, either Oral or topical to quiet that down. Histamine causes the itch, inflammation, swelling (edema) and more, and the sooner we get that under control the better. Here is a bit of information from what one doctor wrote that explains Vestibultitis I think quite well. NOTE. V V S stands for vulvar vestibutlitis syndrome. (The term has now been changed to vestibulodynia).

''VVS is characterized by:1) Redness of the vestibule 2) Point tenderness of the vestibule3) Pain upon entry (tampons, penis, finger, speculum, etc). But these are just symptoms, and in fact several different diseases can give these same symptoms. If you have these symptoms, and do ''not'' have any other known causes of these symptoms, then you probably have VVS. "

(NOTE that means after ruling out specific disease conditions, bacterial, fungal, or LS or LP, Lyme, Diet like with Celiac, dermatitis etc. etc. ) Dee

''What causes those symptoms?

These nerve ending are called "nociceptors" - Pain/stretch nerve endings which accounts for the exquisite tenderness when even light touch is applied (allodynia) to the vestibule. In addition, this proliferation of nerve ending accounts for the redness and swelling that you may feel. How? When the nerves fire, they cause the blood vessels in the vestibular mucosa to dilate (open up) this brings increased blood to the vestibule and vulva causing redness, swelling, and increased discharge.

There is a proliferation of mast cells in the vestibule. But....

It is NOT an inflammation of glands!It is NOT an infection!It is NOT caused by recurrent yeast infections, but...it may be caused by the medications used to treat yeast infections, but not by the yeast infections themselves. Women often mistakenly feel that they have recurrent yeast infections because they have "itching, burning and discharge" and because they are misdiagnosed by health care providers. In my experience 80-90% of women who are told that they have recurrent yeast infections- do not." * Note: Dee here ....Not too long ago I also mentioned how far too often a woman is left with the impression that she was not able to get rid of a yeast infection and insists on more treatments often erroneously but what she really was left with (after a treatment) is too often the inflammation itself (NOT the yeast) and again why an antihistamine can be SO beneficial to put that histamine and other cytokines from those Mast cells back into remission and quiet things down. (Dee)

CONTINUED with his piece...

"I believe (with some scientific evidence to back up my assertion) that ''Primary VVS'' is a congenital problem (IE a "birth defect") Women with primary VVS are born with too many nerve endings in the vestibule!...... (Primary meaning it has always been there from the first time of attempted intercourse, to insertion of tampons, etc.)And I believe ''Secondary VVS'' (meaning it was developed later in life) is caused by a persistent allergic reaction often to antifungal medications which are used WAY TOO liberally by woman - and their doctors.

This persistent allergic reaction leads to

mast cell proliferation----->which leads to NGF (nerve growth factor)------> to proliferation of nerve endings!"......

END........ Hugs

Dee~

[Guest guest]

Is anyone or has anyone ever been on and used Premarin (Estragon Cream) I don't find it helping much. Maybe my frequency of when I apply it is a little skewed. I've seen from other posts that Estrogen is the way to go. At first it seemed calming but now, not so sure.

Thanks to those who reply

Tina.

VESTIBULITIS INFO Mast cells proliferation/ histamine etc. - Using Antihistamines

This is why antihistamines may work for 'some'. ~Chelle

======================

It is thought that a person with vestibulitis can have up to 10X's more MAST cells than the average person.

Mast cells are white blood cells that are responsible for the body's allergic reactions. Mast cells secrete many different chemicals including histamine (which causes the itching and burning sensation), bradykinin and substance P which cause pain.

Some think vestibulitis/vestibulodynia is genetic and inborn. (Dr's - , Hasaday, Ledger, etc.) others think that external issues triggered that increase (of mast cells) with chemical abuse possibly with yeast meds.

Just as a side note I remember one of the women who I think talked with or knows about Dr. Ledger as to what he might use if one did have the V pain gene with double alleles, she said this...

''One of his possible treatments are the herb Pfaffia paniculata (an herb also called "suma" or "Brazilian ginseng," although it is not a ginseng), which he says is pure interleukin-1 receptor antagonist" (and we do want to halt that interleukin 1 Dee).

And he used to use VIOXX which today has been pulled from the market.

Here's a link that talks about the Mast cell proliferation:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/493971_print

A quick quote from it: (it's basically an article about using Capsaicin cream for V pain but it says this.............>

''Vestibular tissue removed from women who underwent surgery for VVS has been analyzed for nerve fiber density and the presence of mast cells; a significant increase in both the number of mast cells and the number of intraepithelial nerve endings, which are coarse and thickened, was reported.''

Here's another conclusion from this link. And you'll see those Mast cells again:

http://intapp.medscape.com/px/medlineapp/getdoc?pmi=15249746 & cid=med

it says in brief:

''The total nerve fiber area was ten times higher in vestibulitis patients than in controls. A significant positive correlation was found between the total nerve fiber area and the number of mast cells in the vestibulitis group of patients.

Conclusion:

(1) the presence of eight or more mast cells per 10 x 10 microscopic field, and

(2) the total calculated area of the nerve fibers is ten times higher than expected.'

Histamine ( and other cytokines/inflammatories) which some of you may have heard us talk about comes from very Mast Cells mentioned above. That's why you'll also hear us talk about adding an 'anti'-histamine to combat that, either Oral or topical to quiet that down. Histamine causes the itch, inflammation, swelling (edema) and more, and the sooner we get that under control the better. Here is a bit of information from what one doctor wrote that explains Vestibultitis I think quite well. NOTE. V V S stands for vulvar vestibutlitis syndrome. (The term has now been changed to vestibulodynia).

''VVS is characterized by:1) Redness of the vestibule 2) Point tenderness of the vestibule3) Pain upon entry (tampons, penis, finger, speculum, etc). But these are just symptoms, and in fact several different diseases can give these same symptoms. If you have these symptoms, and do ''not'' have any other known causes of these symptoms, then you probably have VVS. "

(NOTE that means after ruling out specific disease conditions, bacterial, fungal, or LS or LP, Lyme, Diet like with Celiac, dermatitis etc. etc. ) Dee

''What causes those symptoms?

These nerve ending are called "nociceptors" - Pain/stretch nerve endings which accounts for the exquisite tenderness when even light touch is applied (allodynia) to the vestibule. In addition, this proliferation of nerve ending accounts for the redness and swelling that you may feel. How? When the nerves fire, they cause the blood vessels in the vestibular mucosa to dilate (open up) this brings increased blood to the vestibule and vulva causing redness, swelling, and increased discharge.

There is a proliferation of mast cells in the vestibule. But....

It is NOT an inflammation of glands!It is NOT an infection!It is NOT caused by recurrent yeast infections, but...it may be caused by the medications used to treat yeast infections, but not by the yeast infections themselves.Women often mistakenly feel that they have recurrent yeast infections because they have "itching, burning and discharge" and because they are misdiagnosed by health care providers. In my experience 80-90% of women who are told that they have recurrent yeast infections- do not." * Note: Dee here ....Not too long ago I also mentioned how far too often a woman is left with the impression that she was not able to get rid of a yeast infection and insists on more treatments often erroneously but what she really was left with (after a treatment) is too often the inflammation itself (NOT the yeast) and again why an antihistamine can be SO beneficial to put that histamine and other cytokines from those Mast cells back into remission and quiet things down. (Dee)

CONTINUED with his piece...

"I believe (with some scientific evidence to back up my assertion) that ''Primary VVS'' is a congenital problem (IE a "birth defect") Women with primary VVS are born with too many nerve endings in the vestibule!...... (Primary meaning it has always been there from the first time of attempted intercourse, to insertion of tampons, etc.)And I believe ''Secondary VVS'' (meaning it was developed later in life) is caused by a persistent allergic reaction often to antifungal medications which are used WAY TOO liberally by woman - and their doctors.

This persistent allergic reaction leads to

mast cell proliferation----->which leads to NGF (nerve growth factor)------> to proliferation of nerve endings!"......

END........ Hugs

Dee~