Topical Testosterone & E.Receptors!! **** -- Carolyn

[Guest guest]

Thank for the information Chelle.

I made the mistake of getting a second opinion. The first doctor that I saw told me that my vestibule pain was due to tight pelvic muscles. At that time he did the scope that looks closely at the vulvar skin and told me nothing was wrong with the skin, and that this was strictly a referred pain to that area. He suggested pt.

I went to pt 9 times and did not feel better so I opted to get another opinion.

This new doctor told confirmed that yes my pelvic muscles are in spasm. But recommended a cream to use- combination of testosterone, estrogen, gabapentin, amitryptiine and lidocaine. I guess from what I am reading that the estrogen builds up the skin. But the other doctor told me my skin was fine and this was just from tight pelvic muscles. So, I am stuggling with whether or not to use this cream because I don't want to distrurb my hormones at all by using it, if I don't need it. I wish he would have tested my hormones I guess that would have made me feel better.

Anyway, now Im more confused then ever. I totally grasp the concept of the nerve portion of the cream, but I think my skin is fine there and just am not sure about the estrogen and testosterone. Do they help a connective tissue/pelvic referred pain issue??

thanks

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[Guest guest]

Hey just another quick question about the T & E and the nerve pain meds in that ointment. I am using externally - but alot of my pain is right inside my vagina ( Iguess its the vestibular glands) does this ointment help that area as well?

thanks- so confused

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[Guest guest]

Here's the one I thought was a really good one as to why T helped 'me' so much as it tells how using T. can help restore those E receptors. (again with my own thoughts included for what it's worth).

HugsDee

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Topical T increases the number of E receptors.

AbstractCapobianco G., Dessole S., Cossu A., Marras V., Meloni G.B., Mesina S.,Demurtas P., Cherchi P.L.''Receptor modifications in vulvar dystrophies before and after treatmentwith topical hormones:

Comparison between the dextran-charcoal technique andimmunohistochemical evaluation''(2006) European Journal of Gynaecological Oncology, 27 (4), pp. 411-413.Department of Pharmacology, Gynecology and Obstetrics, University ofSassari, Sassari, Italy Institute of Pathologic Anatomy, University ofSassari, Sassari, Italy Dept. of Pharmacology, Gynecology and Obstetrics,University of Sassari, Viale San Pietro, 12, 07100 Sassari, ItalyAbstractPurpose of investigation:The objective of the study was first to quantify estrogen receptors (ERs)and progesterone receptors (PRs) in dystrophic vulvar tissue before andafter topical hormone treatment in an attempt to evaluate whether receptormodifications occurred. Second we compared quantitative analysis withimmunohistochemical staining of the vulvar specimens.Methods: We studied 115 vulvar specimens obtained from 75 consenting womenranging from 21 to 78 years of age.Of the patients,12 had histologically normal vulvar skin,45 had vulvar dystrophies that were not treated by topical steroid therapy,28 patients had vulvar dystrophies that were treated by testosteronepropionate (TP) 2%,12 patients had vulvar dystrophies that were treated by progesterone inhydroalcoholic gel and18 patients had vulvar malignant tumors.For immunohistochemical analysis we considered 25 cases of vulvardystrophies:11 cases of squamous hyperplasia (SH) and14 cases of lichen sclerosus (LS)Among these 25 cases, 15 (5 SH and 10 LS) were treated with TP 2%.(testosterone)Results: After treatment of the vulvar dystrophies with progesterone, thepositivity of ERs (estrogen receptors) ''decreased'' (58.3% vs. 77.8%).

COMMENT by Dee* Meaning in my opinion that progesterone was a negative (not positive), and even 'decreased' those Estrogen Receptors) Dee T

After treatment of the vulvar dystrophies with Testosterone P 2%, the positivity of PRs(progesterone receptors) significantly 'decreased' (14.3% vs. 68.9%) whereasafter treatment with 'progesterone' the positivity of PRs (progesteronereceptors) increased (83.3%).

''COMMENT by Dee* 'I' would want the P. receptors reduced or decreased (which the Testosterone Propionate did)... and it shows that when using the Progesterone(P)... the P receptors increased, not something "I" want because P. blocks or inhibits the E & T receptors., so the T was very beneficial in my opinion and another reason why I am so against using additional P (and that's progesterone or progestins) and that's just 'one' reason. Dee T''

The immunohistochemical study showed some differences in comparison to thequantitative study. In fact we found low basal positivity especially for PRs(16% vs. 68.9% of the quantitative study).This finding was due to the use of a cutoff of at least ++ in order toincrease the specificity.After treatment with TP 2 %, (testosterone propionate) we observed an'increase' of immunohistochemical ''positivity for ERs'' (estrogen receptors)even in cases that were negative before treatment, and a lack of PRs(progesterone receptors) even in cases that were positive before treatment.Conclusions:These data demonstrate the efficacy of androgen therapy with TP 2% (testosterone propionate) in vulvar dystrophies with 'increased trophism' due to the increase of ERs.

END

*NOTE* by Dee, 'trophism' is definied as 'nourishment' just as 'atrophy' is theopposite, not fed and withering away. It shows how T benefits the genital tissue because the T increased the E receptors when using it, and if one 'adds' the topical estrogen the benefits of E are even more enhanced. And why in my opinion of course, using both the E & T topical medications was my own miracle for full restoration of the Vulvar tissue whether it's LS or any type of vulvar dystrophy.

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I also found this same article on Pub Med:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & TermToSearch=17009639 & ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus

*If that doesn't work, just type in the first line (copy/paste ) and in the SEARCH area type this in:

''Receptor modifications in vulvar dystrophies before and after treatment with topical hormones''

===============

[Guest guest]

thanks Chelle, Im just going to try it. I guess it can't hurt. He did tell me to use it 4 times a day. Maybe I will ask him if I can put it just inside where alot of my pain is. Its just odd how some days are better than others too.

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[Guest guest]

Carolyn,Have you told any of the docs that the glands is where you have most of the pain? I honestly don't know what to tell you. I haven't had any problems specifically with my glands. Sorry I can't be of any help on that...maybe someone else will chime in...Take Care,Chelle

[Guest guest]

Hmm, the only thing I can tell you, is that you will probably have to figure this out for yourself. I know that stinks...but in all honesty, you know your body better than anyone else! ;-) You can have both kinds of pain. Pain in the tissue itself and pain that is referred by tight pelvic floor muscles. Your skin doesn't have to look bad to have pain. The way I understand it, is that the estrogen and testosterone receptors can be blocked, and that can cause pain. In my case, my skin did look bad. I even had a doc that used a colposcope and still let me walk out of the office without any real help. I understand not wanting to disturb your hormones, but I've used topical estrogen for over 3 yrs. now and I'm in my 30's. It did not cause me any systemic effects, you should only use a tiny

pea sized dab anyway. It doesn't really take much. If you are leery about using so many things at once, you could always ask to try the other meds topically minus the hormones. I've read of preparations like this....at Bellevue Pharamcy they have mixed different combinations of meds to help with vulvar pain. Keep in mind that perimenopause and menopause can definitely affect the pelvic floor and skin. Estrogen has good affects on the pelvic floor muscles and the vulvar skin, because there are E. receptor sites in those areas. Hang in there...Chelle

[Guest guest]

Carolyn,I was specificially instructed to make sure that my topicals were applied further in, over theglands, where i have most of my irritation.HollisCarolyn, Have you told any of the docs that the glands is where you have most of the pain? I honestly don't know what to tell you. I haven't had any problems specifically with my glands. Sorry I can't be of any help on that...maybe someone else will chime in... Take Care, Chelle

[Guest guest]

Dr Marvel?Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news more!

[Guest guest]

wow really? why? I dunno still yet what I am doing with this. I feel like my skin down there is totally normal.

and the other doctor I saw, did one of those scopes and told me that it was- he was a vulvar specialist too.

what would u do?

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[Guest guest]

oh ok lol I was wondering what you meant!Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news more!

[Guest guest]

Well, Carolyn, if he said to use it four times a day, hopefully that means he doesn't really think there would be much systemic absorption (if any). Does this doc have a good name in the vulvar pain world? To be safe, just start out using a tiny dab once a day and then build up, if you don't notice any side effects, add another application and so on. Just a thought.... ;-)

[Guest guest]

I don't know a lot about Dr. Marvel, but I've heard his name several times. He performed Christin Beasley's wastebasket. It's ironic to me that this doc automatically gives you a Rx for estrogen and testosterone mixed with nerve pain melds in one at your first visit. You have no idea how hard I had to fight just to be able to try E. & T. --- months apart, one at a time! I felt like I was presenting a court case to my doc. I had to take research and state my case. LIL!

[Guest guest]

Okay, LOL...as I'm typing, my hubby is taking photos with a studio light (doing test shots) and got me distracted when I was using the spell check..."Dr. Marvel performed Christin's Veasley's vestibulectomy"!!!! ;-)

I don't know a lot about Dr. Marvel, but I've heard his name several times. He performed Christin Beasley's wastebasket. It's ironic to me that this doc automatically gives you a Rx for estrogen and testosterone mixed with nerve pain melds in one at your first visit. You have no idea how hard I had to fight just to be able to try E. & T. --- months apart, one at a time! I felt like I was presenting a court case to my doc. I had to take research and state my case. LIL!

[Guest guest]

I bet you were, like what's a 'wastebasket' have to do with vulvar pain, huh?!!! Even was cracking up when I told him what I did. He said, "looks like you better proof read, too".... ;-) --- On Sun, 11/16/08, Carolyn52192@... wrote

oh ok lol I was wondering what you meant!