FAPE ??!? Right here in Florida... Appropriate ??!?

[Guest guest]

Dear Advocates & Parents,

I am also looking at the educational system and I am so saddened by what I've

seen now in at least two states, Illinois and more recently Florida, and the

problem is probably much further spread even than this.

I have an MS from the School of Social Welfare and had worked with young adults

coming off IEPs as early as the 1990s. Back then I had also saw the history of

those with learning differences, in my case files, of program " participants " who

had lived in and come out of institutions. Back then, this closing of

institutions and " community integration " was considered progressive. Now, with

all the advances time usually brings, etc, is it correct that there are today

segregated schools " just/especially for " children with intellectual learning

differences?

In looking at the first paragraph of the Florida Inclusion Network's page, 'FAQs

from Parents,'

http://www.floridainclusionnetwork.com/Research_Centers/CRSRL/Florida_Inclusion_\

Network/FAQs/FAQs_from_Parents.aspx

and then seeing there are secluded institutions for daily learning, no matter

what each secluded institution propagates on their website(s) to do for

children, well, it leaves me very confused as to why the same could not be done

with a model of inclusion, aides if necessary, in a " regular " school... However

this obvious seclusion of the segregated school, with all its surrounding

self-made propaganda, meets standards FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education

under Section 504)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Appropriate_Public_Education

What is education for those with special needs really like today, yikes - and

what is the apparently active segregated educational institution model all

about?! Are there any advocacy groups concerned about these seclusion matters?

Is Florida Inclusion Network one, or just more propaganda, and are there other

groups as well? I will be looking...anyone else concerned please speak up and

share what you know, thank you!!!

Jeanie

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the disgruntled parents group who have fought so hard for so little inclusion.

To: sList Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 7:30:59 PMSubject: FAPE ??!? Right here in Florida... "Appropriate" ??!?

Dear Advocates & Parents,I am also looking at the educational system and I am so saddened by what I've seen now in at least two states, Illinois and more recently Florida, and the problem is probably much further spread even than this. I have an MS from the School of Social Welfare and had worked with young adults coming off IEPs as early as the 1990s. Back then I had also saw the history of those with learning differences, in my case files, of program "participants" who had lived in and come out of institutions. Back then, this closing of institutions and "community integration" was considered progressive. Now, with all the advances time usually brings, etc, is it correct that there are today segregated schools "just/especially for" children with intellectual learning differences? In looking at the first paragraph of the Florida Inclusion Network's page, 'FAQs from

Parents,'http://www.floridainclusionnetwork.com/Research_Centers/CRSRL/Florida_Inclusion_Network/FAQs/FAQs_from_Parents.aspxand then seeing there are secluded institutions for daily learning, no matter what each secluded institution propagates on their website(s) to do for children, well, it leaves me very confused as to why the same could not be done with a model of inclusion, aides if necessary, in a "regular" school... However this obvious seclusion of the segregated school, with all its surrounding self-made propaganda, meets standards FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education under Section 504) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Appropriate_Public_EducationWhat is education for those with special needs really like today, yikes - and what is the apparently active segregated educational institution model all about?! Are there any advocacy groups concerned about these seclusion matters? Is Florida Inclusion Network one, or just more

propaganda, and are there other groups as well? I will be looking...anyone else concerned please speak up and share what you know, thank you!!!Jeanie

[Guest guest]

How very sad.  In writing to someone who privately responded I thought of another related thing... thank you for those who responded to me directly as well!  I am sure sometimes public exposure to what we really think about the system can be a bit scary.

So let me share with you another situation that reminds me of many other times like it, that I had seen in Illinois and Wisconsin.  My boys and I were at the park and another boy was also there, maybe about 7 years old, as a

participant in the park district's day camp (for everyone, not dd-specific.)  This 7yo had an aide with him.  The aide kept him outside

of where his camp group was playing, and he was very obviously alone.  I

asked her why and she went into a discourse about what she does, his disability, and how it was " too difficult " to integrate him with the other children for social issue reasons. 

I did not let her know of my experience, just said, " hmm... " and brought my boys over to play with him.  After all what would be the purpose in irritating her; she is the powerful case aide that is alone with him.  And big deal, so for one day he played with other children, my children.  In the meantime, I cannot imagine his proud parents when he gets home, thinking all day long their son is playing and having fun at the " regular " park district program, and how lucky they were to get an aide to assist him with this " step toward " integration...Does anyone know, or have opinions on, what would be the best way to handle seeing things like this?  Is there a way to report it that could make a real difference but would not put the individual receiving services at any jeopardy?  I don't mind mentioning media contact or things like this...if it would not put the individuals at jeopardy...

Thank you for ideas if you have them!  Of course you can write to me directly again if you wish, but also I see no harm in letting the world know we see what is going on.  :)Jeanie

 

Welcome to the disgruntled parents group who have fought so hard for so little inclusion.

[Guest guest]

There are public, private and charter schools for children with disabilities. Many parents chose to have their children placed in these specialized learning environments while other parents choose to have their child in an inclusive environment. Appropriate does not mean inclusion and inclusion is not appropriate for every child. To place some children (mine included) in an inclusion model is a disservice for my son, the teachers and every student. We must work for what is appropriate for each individual student which is why we have IEPs. For families that are wanting inclusion and children that benefit from it, I advocate for it in the schools. For my son, I will never ask that he be included in school and fought to have an appropriate placement designed for him, but he is fully included in the community.

--

 

 

 

I am also looking at the educational system and I am so saddened by what I've seen now in at least two states, Illinois and more recently Florida, and the problem is probably much further spread even than this.

I have an MS from the School of Social Welfare and had worked with young adults coming off IEPs as early as the 1990s. Back then I had also sawi the history of those with learning differences, in my case files, of program " participants " who had lived in and come out of institutions. Back then, this closing of institutions and " community integration " was considered progressive. Now, with all the advances time usually brings, etc, is it correct that there are today segregated schools " just/especially for " children with intellectual learning differences?

In looking at the first paragraph of the Florida Inclusion Network's page, 'FAQs from Parents,'http://www.floridainclusionnetwork.com/Research_Centers/CRSRL/Florida_Inclusion_Network/FAQs/FAQs_from_Parents.aspx

and then seeing there are secluded institutions for daily learning, no matter what each secluded institution propagates on their website(s) to do for children, well, it leaves me very confused as to why the same could not be done with a model of inclusion, aides if necessary, in a " regular " school... However this obvious seclusion of the segregated school, with all its surrounding self-made propaganda, meets standards FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education under Section 504) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Appropriate_Public_Education

What is education for those with special needs really like today, yikes - and what is the apparently active segregated educational institution model all about?! Are there any advocacy groups concerned about these seclusion matters? Is Florida Inclusion Network one, or just more propaganda, and are there other groups as well? I will be looking...anyone else concerned please speak up and share what you know, thank you!!!

Jeanie

[Guest guest]

,Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and responding so kindly.  I am more than 100% sure you know what is best for your child, and I hope it makes your heart warm as it does mine when there are good things about community involvement too. 

Still curious though from my years in family advocacy...  do parents really get a choice also for the " regular " school if they think it will be best for their child?  Or is it given a " try " and then at the next IEP meeting " the mom " is faced with " multiple professionals " telling her that her child is doing a draining disservice to the class, teacher, all the students, school, etc?  It would seem like segregation could be less expensive for a district in the longer term than individual aides of course, and it seems only the bigger school districts must have enough money (or enough warm bodies to fill the spots and " justify " program funding) to get these segregated schools going...  and then if the " multiple professionals " work for a district, filling the spots in several district schools to keep program funding...  Well, thank you for sharing what you know about this and your perspective too!

Do you know if parents and children with IEPs really have a true free and open (non-pressured) choice, between " regular " public and specialized segregated schools?Thank you,Jeanie

 

There are public, private and charter schools for children with disabilities. Many parents chose to have their children placed in these specialized learning environments while other parents choose to have their child in an inclusive environment. Appropriate does not mean inclusion and inclusion is not appropriate for every child. To place some children (mine included) in an inclusion model is a disservice for my son, the teachers and every student. We must work for what is appropriate for each individual student which is why we have IEPs. For families that are wanting inclusion and children that benefit from it, I advocate for it in the schools. For my son, I will never ask that he be included in school and fought to have an appropriate placement designed for him, but he is fully included in the community.

--

[Guest guest]

I can tell you in Lee County, we have only one specialized school for children with developmental disabilities, one public for kids with severe emotional disabilities, and one charter high school for children with disabilities. Out of 80,000 students only 250 are in the public specialized school for students with disabilities while 250 choose to go to the specialized charter school for high school students with disabilities.  I know a few families have been pressured into the public school for children that are SED and my son was one of them, but I also have many families that have fought to get into these schools as they want their children in that environment. Lee County is different (and I am not saying in a good way) then any onther county I have ever heard of (I know for sure in Fl) We do not have local neighborhood schools and have what is called school choice. I think this makes it much easier to find an appropriate placement as you know have multiple schools with numerous services and programs to choose from. Also due to school choice we do not have an issue with the class size amendment. For example you can see our east zone schools here (there is also north and west) http://studentassignment.leeschools.net/pdf/10-11/East%20Zone%20Schools.pdf Most kids in our school our bused to school and do not go to the school down the block. There is probably some staff trying to justify funding, but if that was so my son's class could not exist. My son's class is one highly qualified teacher (MSW, trained behavior specialist, taught autism and SED classes, head of ese for the school, trains other teachers) and an aide for 2 student; plus the autism specialist, counselor and behavior specialist that come into assist in the class. My son must be escorted on campus at all times and also spends time in an SED science class and the lunch room, but he chooses not to go to any other classes outside his class. He writes for the school newspaper from his class, but this is his choice as he can not handle a typical classroom. I would love for them to say we can't do this anymore and send him to private school as the cost would be substantially less, but that won't happen.

 

,Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and responding so kindly.  I am more than 100% sure you know what is best for your child, and I hope it makes your heart warm as it does mine when there are good things about community involvement too. 

Still curious though from my years in family advocacy...  do parents really get a choice also for the " regular " school if they think it will be best for their child?  Or is it given a " try " and then at the next IEP meeting " the mom " is faced with " multiple professionals " telling her that her child is doing a draining disservice to the class, teacher, all the students, school, etc?  It would seem like segregation could be less expensive for a district in the longer term than individual aides of course, and it seems only the bigger school districts must have enough money (or enough warm bodies to fill the spots and " justify " program funding) to get these segregated schools going...  and then if the " multiple professionals " work for a district, filling the spots in several district schools to keep program funding...  Well, thank you for sharing what you know about this and your perspective too!

Do you know if parents and children with IEPs really have a true free and open (non-pressured) choice, between " regular " public and specialized segregated schools?Thank you,Jeanie

[Guest guest]

, I can tell you are a wonderful mom, know so much, and have taken all the time needed to know all of this.  Thank you for sharing!  On a general level and for what happens in the schools, it looks like the answer to, " Do you know if parents and children with IEPs really have a true free and open (non-pressured) choice, between " regular " public and specialized segregated schools? " , is either just an outright " no " peppered with rhetoric, or an " it depends on " where-your-child-is-at " , " that is, what is perceived as " best " by the individual professionals (and district needs) who are doing any particular evaluation.

 

I can tell you in Lee County, we have only one specialized school for children with developmental disabilities, one public for kids with severe emotional disabilities, and one charter high school for children with disabilities. Out of 80,000 students only 250 are in the public specialized school for students with disabilities while 250 choose to go to the specialized charter school for high school students with disabilities.  I know a few families have been pressured into the public school for children that are SED and my son was one of them, but I also have many families that have fought to get into these schools as they want their children in that environment. Lee County is different (and I am not saying in a good way) then any onther county I have ever heard of (I know for sure in Fl) We do not have local neighborhood schools and have what is called school choice. I think this makes it much easier to find an appropriate placement as you know have multiple schools with numerous services and programs to choose from. Also due to school choice we do not have an issue with the class size amendment. For example you can see our east zone schools here (there is also north and west) http://studentassignment.leeschools.net/pdf/10-11/East%20Zone%20Schools.pdf Most kids in our school our bused to school and do not go to the school down the block. There is probably some staff trying to justify funding, but if that was so my son's class could not exist. My son's class is one highly qualified teacher (MSW, trained behavior specialist, taught autism and SED classes, head of ese for the school, trains other teachers) and an aide for 2 student; plus the autism specialist, counselor and behavior specialist that come into assist in the class. My son must be escorted on campus at all times and also spends time in an SED science class and the lunch room, but he chooses not to go to any other classes outside his class. He writes for the school newspaper from his class, but this is his choice as he can not handle a typical classroom. I would love for them to say we can't do this anymore and send him to private school as the cost would be substantially less, but that won't happen.

 

,Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and responding so kindly.  I am more than 100% sure you know what is best for your child, and I hope it makes your heart warm as it does mine when there are good things about community involvement too. 

Still curious though from my years in family advocacy...  do parents really get a choice also for the " regular " school if they think it will be best for their child?  Or is it given a " try " and then at the next IEP meeting " the mom " is faced with " multiple professionals " telling her that her child is doing a draining disservice to the class, teacher, all the students, school, etc?  It would seem like segregation could be less expensive for a district in the longer term than individual aides of course, and it seems only the bigger school districts must have enough money (or enough warm bodies to fill the spots and " justify " program funding) to get these segregated schools going...  and then if the " multiple professionals " work for a district, filling the spots in several district schools to keep program funding...  Well, thank you for sharing what you know about this and your perspective too!

Do you know if parents and children with IEPs really have a true free and open (non-pressured) choice, between " regular " public and specialized segregated schools?Thank you,Jeanie