changed

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/16/2000 8:00:05 AM Central Daylight Time,

emiejo@... writes:

<< I am withdrawing my application for the procedure. I do not believe you

to be incompetent at all, nor do I believe that the surgery is not for

many....but I simply do not want to take the chance. >>

,

I can understand and respect your prerogative to change you mind concerning

the surgery. There are probably others who feel as you do. However, I am not

one of them. There is inherent risk to ANY surgery. The risk was there even

before there was a surgery related death. So, you were taking the same chance

initially. The risk is just more real to you now that this death has

occurred. There is also a risk when you cross the street or get into you car

and drive to work. Consequently, when it's your time to go, it's just your

time. So, even though I am deeply saddened by 's death, I still plan

to have this surgery whether I receive insurance approval or have to self pay.

Being the number cruncher that I am, I just want to illustrate something. If

I include all deaths (4) based on 440 surgeries performed. That is still less

that 1%. Surgery related deaths (1) are less that one-tenth of one percent.

So, these are still good statistics. These results are much better than other

surgeon's that perform weight loss surgeries...or any surgery for that

matter. I am not trying to minimize the pain of this loss. I know that if you

are the person that dies, then any risk is too high.

So, it is great that you have made the decision best for you. But, I just

wanted to give a little perspective for the benefit of others.

le

waiting for approval...and willing to self pay

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Rutledge;

04/16/00

I thank you for any work done on my " case " up to this point and appreciate the

time spent, but in light of recent events, I am withdrawing my application for

the procedure. I do not believe you to be incompetent at all, nor do I believe

that the surgery is not for many....but I simply do not want to take the chance.

I have gained plenty of information on the MiniGastricBypass list and although I

truly had hoped this would be the most successful " tool " in my attempts at

weight loss, my husband and I have decided that perhaps this is not the tool

intended for me.

My most sincere condolences on this recent tragedy. Although I did not meet

, I " read " her and understood her heart and although you and I have never

met....I am certain that this must be a blow. Those who have met you have

expressed how compassionate and empathetic you are.

In closing, again I thank you and your staff for any time spent on this and wish

you well in your endeavors.

Kind Regards,

Crawford

Cassville, Missouri

[Guest guest]

Very well said Robynn and I agree with you totally. If I hadn't had my

surgery I would have died for sure. I could not breathe and my whole system

was totally blocked and my blood pressure alone would have killed most

people.

[Guest guest]

le,

Well state about the risks. However the statistics I feel that truely

represent Dr R specifically are more representative of mortality rates in a

certain post op period. You have to include mortality rates for I believe it

is 2 years After a surgery ,even if it is Obvious the death was NOT due to

the surgery. Ie if someone stepped out in front of a car and died within 2

years of this surgical procedure I was advised they would be included in the

mortality rate. Since three were long after surgery and were unrelated to the

surgery I challange anyone to find anyone that does weightloss surgery that

has only had one in almost 500 cases. For that matter any surgeon any

procedure.

I am a nurse and have been involved in the health care field for 25 years of

my 42 here on earth. Although I am a real estate consultant with my Fathers

company now I can attest to many people over the years that have died of far

less complicated surgeries. Abdominal surgery is risky. I have seen MANY

patients in ICU post op.

I saw a girl that had just graduated from high school and was planning a

wedding and she died from a tonsillectomy. I could go on for hours with tales

such as these.

I have worked in many hospitals over the years as a volunteer,pharmacy

tech,nurse intern,Graduate nurse,Registered nurse. I have worked in

ER,Icu,Recovery,CArdiac rehab and I have seen small and large hospitals in

Michigan and Ohio.

I have always said it is Hard to put a good surgeon and a good personality in

one body. I guess the theory is the interpersonal skills with awake patients

are not as good as when they are asleep. Think of it.....The personality type

that is attracted to being a surgeon. They are in their'Mecca " when the

patients are asleep and the whole operating room is buzzing around the

patient and surgeon . Of course the only one that speaking out of that bunch

is the surgeon.

Further more two additional points. Death from surgery in the surgical suite

is NOT attributed to the surgeon.....it is blamed on the anesthesiologist.

Unless things have changed since I have been in a hospital. And death in the

immediate post op period can also be attributed to risks from anesthesia as

well.

Although I was told there was a leak. I still want to consider all factors.

Additionally,If you compared the outcomes of patients that had comorbidites

that would make the stats Dr R has even more glowing. How many of WLS have to

HAVE comorbidities to have surgery? Also morbid obesity in and of itself IS a

comorbidity.

A history of Stroke after childbirth may hint of some coagulation disorder.

Sometimes people that have surgery and get an infection or inflammatory

process such as is set up by leak of bile fluids. Do not respond well to

antibiotics. Everyone is different. Persons with an inflammatory response set

up in their bodie can go into a state of disseseminated intravascular

coagulation " DIC " . In this abnormal response to the cycle of inflammatory

response the body reacts by both bleeding and clotting at the same time. A

clot from anywhere is a great risk in this situation...life threatening if

travels to brain(like I suspect one did when had her stroke).

I know it is priveledged and confidential information that we may never know

what the " actual " cause of death is. A clot to the brain,heart,lung post op I

suspect. You just don't have a respiratory or cardiac arrest because you had

a leak. I have never seen that.

I do know this.////////,our Viking Princess was VERY near and dear to

many on this list,....post ops,preops,newbies,lurkers...........She was loved

by many.

I would love to contribute in anyway possible to keep her memory alive.

I have never wrote a book....maybe someone that knew her personally would do

this?

We have been talking about a WLS book for a bit. I heard someone was working

on it. Maybe a dedication something ......a poem anything to keep her alive

in those that never knew her........There will be many like us that did not

live the day to day ....post to post crisis and preop heartwarming chats with

.These people need to know 's story. They need to know the

rest of the story too. The story of many brave woman and men that took this

lifechanging step. How they dealt with the whole process etc. Start to finish.

No one can bring her back but we can remember her spirit .I think the same

thing someone else had posted....Why our Viking Princess....we all loved her

so?

Presisely................She WILL not be forgotten.

God chose to bring her home to him. We dont know why now....but it was her

time.

God bless her family

MElissa

Oxford,Ohio

Dr Rutlege we all LOVE YOU.....and are thinking of you. Knowing the type of

person you are I know you are having a hard time.

[Guest guest]

from Oxford, Ohio:

That was a very heart warming letter, Thank you!

[Guest guest]

le,

I really agree with you, I aspoke at length yesterday with my husband, yes

there is a risk, my husband (the most conservative person that I know) siad

that 1% was more than worth it to live the way I want to live. As Kihlil

Girbran said " One may not reach the dawn, save by the path of the night. "

For me it still is night, but I am reaching for the dawn.

Robynn

MGB more than hopeful.

Re: changed

> In a message dated 04/16/2000 8:00:05 AM Central Daylight Time,

> emiejo@... writes:

>

> << I am withdrawing my application for the procedure. I do not believe

you

> to be incompetent at all, nor do I believe that the surgery is not for

> many....but I simply do not want to take the chance. >>

>

> ,

>

> I can understand and respect your prerogative to change you mind

concerning

> the surgery. There are probably others who feel as you do. However, I am

not

> one of them. There is inherent risk to ANY surgery. The risk was there

even

> before there was a surgery related death. So, you were taking the same

chance

> initially. The risk is just more real to you now that this death has

> occurred. There is also a risk when you cross the street or get into you

car

> and drive to work. Consequently, when it's your time to go, it's just your

> time. So, even though I am deeply saddened by 's death, I still

plan

> to have this surgery whether I receive insurance approval or have to self

pay.

>

> Being the number cruncher that I am, I just want to illustrate something.

If

> I include all deaths (4) based on 440 surgeries performed. That is still

less

> that 1%. Surgery related deaths (1) are less that one-tenth of one

percent.

> So, these are still good statistics. These results are much better than

other

> surgeon's that perform weight loss surgeries...or any surgery for that

> matter. I am not trying to minimize the pain of this loss. I know that if

you

> are the person that dies, then any risk is too high.

>

> So, it is great that you have made the decision best for you. But, I just

> wanted to give a little perspective for the benefit of others.

>

> le

> waiting for approval...and willing to self pay

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> Capital One. 9.9% Fixed thereafter!

> http://click.egroups.com/1/3010/1/_/453517/_/955899763/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> This message is from the Mini-Gastric Bypass Mailing List at Onelist.com

> Please visit our web site at http://clos.net

> Get the Patient Manual at http://clos.net/get_patient_manual.htm

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Robynn - this is what I needed to hear. After much soul searching

and tears, I am going to go for it also. The risk of " living " with this

disease is still much higher than the risk of dying with the surgery.

My thoughts and prayers are with and her family. This is a real

tragedy, but I know is with us still. She will live in our hearts

and minds forever. May God bless all of us, and especially Dr. Rutledge.

I'm sure even with over 20 years as a trauma surgeon, no death has hit him

in quite this way.

Thank you, everyone, for sharing your thoughts. We truly are a family

(warts and all!). You mean more to me than any of you will ever know.

Blessings

~Amy.

<< As Kihlil Girbran said " One may not reach the dawn, save by the path of

the night. " For me it still is night, but I am reaching for the dawn.

Robynn

MGB more than hopeful.

>>

[Guest guest]

well said amy.

RE: changed

> Thanks Robynn - this is what I needed to hear. After much soul searching

> and tears, I am going to go for it also. The risk of " living " with this

> disease is still much higher than the risk of dying with the surgery.

>

> My thoughts and prayers are with and her family. This is a real

> tragedy, but I know is with us still. She will live in our hearts

> and minds forever. May God bless all of us, and especially Dr. Rutledge.

> I'm sure even with over 20 years as a trauma surgeon, no death has hit him

> in quite this way.

>

> Thank you, everyone, for sharing your thoughts. We truly are a family

> (warts and all!). You mean more to me than any of you will ever know.

>

> Blessings

> ~Amy.

>

>

> << As Kihlil Girbran said " One may not reach the dawn, save by the path

of

> the night. " For me it still is night, but I am reaching for the dawn.

> Robynn

> MGB more than hopeful.

> >>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

le, thank you for posting this. It is exactly how I feel. I am at

more of a risk of death by being obese, or at the very least, suffering from

a myriad of obesity-related complications than by having the surgery. Yes,

's death hit us all in the stomach like a cannon ball, and even

though Dr R has tried to stress to us all that this is serious surgery, I

think some of us (myself included) had become complacent with the reports

that everyone was coming out of surgery relatively unscathed. This is a

serious life-changing decision, and hopefully, by the time we get to the OR

we have decided that the benefits outweigh the risks. It is a very personal

decision, and while I'm sure some will change their minds, the rest of are

even surer of our decision to have surgery. I myself am more frightened of

being obese, than I am of having surgery.

Everything in life has risks. Like le says, crossing the street, or

trusting that the car coming towards you at breakneck speed will not cross

over two little yellow lines is a risk. But those we deal with everyday,

and we have become somewhat anesthetized by them. In fact, most of us don't

ever think about it. We all have to decide for ourselves, and hopefully we

come to a decision that we can live with.

fg

>

>,

>

> I can understand and respect your prerogative to change you mind concerning

>the surgery. There are probably others who feel as you do. However, I am not

>one of them. There is inherent risk to ANY surgery. The risk was there even

>before there was a surgery related death. So, you were taking the same chance

>initially. The risk is just more real to you now that this death has

>occurred. There is also a risk when you cross the street or get into you car

>and drive to work. Consequently, when it's your time to go, it's just your

>time. So, even though I am deeply saddened by 's death, I still plan

>to have this surgery whether I receive insurance approval or have to self pay.

>

>Being the number cruncher that I am, I just want to illustrate something. If

>I include all deaths (4) based on 440 surgeries performed. That is still less

>that 1%. Surgery related deaths (1) are less that one-tenth of one percent.

>So, these are still good statistics. These results are much better than other

>surgeon's that perform weight loss surgeries...or any surgery for that

>matter. I am not trying to minimize the pain of this loss. I know that if you

>are the person that dies, then any risk is too high.

>

>So, it is great that you have made the decision best for you. But, I just

>wanted to give a little perspective for the benefit of others.

>

>le

>waiting for approval...and willing to self pay

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>High rates giving you headaches? The 0% APR Introductory Rate from

>Capital One. 9.9% Fixed thereafter!

>http://click.egroups.com/1/3010/1/_/453517/_/955899763/

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>This message is from the Mini-Gastric Bypass Mailing List at Onelist.com

>Please visit our web site at http://clos.net

>Get the Patient Manual at http://clos.net/get_patient_manual.htm

>

>

>