RE: Feeling question and thoughts

[Guest guest]

Hello :

I am pooped so my synopsis will be short : )

First date is negative is bad. Bad. You were more than likely just trying to

lighten up the situation as first dates (clinically too) should be fun and

light.

Even if you both are PhDs. Its never a good outcome to become entwined based

in anything negative and or even familiar on a first date. Leads to

codependent relationships.

The intense stuff is best held off till date 3 or 4, LOL!

On your second point you are probably correct (which is also true of point 1

but was still inappropriate on a first date) Hope that makes sense.

Clearly you do need to work on feeling yucky feelings and grieving their

outcome. After that you will not fear them so much.

But not on a first date : )

M-

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Zaire

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:44 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Feeling question and thoughts

I was on a first date a couple nights ago, and the woman was expressing

negative regarding the career prospects post science PhD. I was

commiserating with her, (I've also gots the science PhD) but it seems like

she was getting stuck in some negative emotions. I was feeling

uncomfortable with her expressing that emotion, so I said something along

the lines of " I know we're not making bank, but I'm happy. It's enough take

a hot date out for some great food. " That got a smile and laugh out of her.

While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings. I feel this wasn't the correct approach. In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk. Or

would you like a distraction? " Some times they want to talk, sometimes they

want a distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in

growing up in an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional

state. I want to move beyond that sort of interaction.

In a related thought, I can't watch embarrassing scenes in movies. It just

makes me feel horrible. It's been like this since my teen years. But I

think that forcing myself to watch it would force me to confront painful

feelings. Maybe if I can allow myself to feel yucky feelings, I'll have an

easier being around others with yucky feelings.

Does any of this resonate with anyone?

[Guest guest]

Hello :

I am pooped so my synopsis will be short : )

First date is negative is bad. Bad. You were more than likely just trying to

lighten up the situation as first dates (clinically too) should be fun and

light.

Even if you both are PhDs. Its never a good outcome to become entwined based

in anything negative and or even familiar on a first date. Leads to

codependent relationships.

The intense stuff is best held off till date 3 or 4, LOL!

On your second point you are probably correct (which is also true of point 1

but was still inappropriate on a first date) Hope that makes sense.

Clearly you do need to work on feeling yucky feelings and grieving their

outcome. After that you will not fear them so much.

But not on a first date : )

M-

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Zaire

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:44 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Feeling question and thoughts

I was on a first date a couple nights ago, and the woman was expressing

negative regarding the career prospects post science PhD. I was

commiserating with her, (I've also gots the science PhD) but it seems like

she was getting stuck in some negative emotions. I was feeling

uncomfortable with her expressing that emotion, so I said something along

the lines of " I know we're not making bank, but I'm happy. It's enough take

a hot date out for some great food. " That got a smile and laugh out of her.

While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings. I feel this wasn't the correct approach. In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk. Or

would you like a distraction? " Some times they want to talk, sometimes they

want a distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in

growing up in an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional

state. I want to move beyond that sort of interaction.

In a related thought, I can't watch embarrassing scenes in movies. It just

makes me feel horrible. It's been like this since my teen years. But I

think that forcing myself to watch it would force me to confront painful

feelings. Maybe if I can allow myself to feel yucky feelings, I'll have an

easier being around others with yucky feelings.

Does any of this resonate with anyone?

[Guest guest]

>

I was feeling uncomfortable with her expressing that emotion, so I said

something along the lines of " I know we're not making bank, but I'm happy.  It's

enough take a hot date out for some great food. "  That got a smile and laugh out

of her.  

>

> While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings.  I feel this wasn't the correct approach.  

I think it's fine to throw out an alternate point of view when other people are

showing signs of distorted thinking. Not so much to change *their* thinking, but

to make it clear that I don't accept it for myself. I really like the way you

lightened things up, actually. You took a Debbie Downer moment and asserted that

you are happy with your life whether your salary is high or not.

I also don't think you have to play therapist to people--that wouldn't be

healthy for either of you. You don't have to ask if they want to talk about

their feelings or offer to be there to listen (especially on a first date!). I

don't think you handled things wrong at all.

Now, if you don't like other people feeling negative things, that might be

something you will want to examine, because people will have feelings whether we

like it or not. And it's definitely not our job to change that. But having

boundaries that you don't like to listen to people complain, or that you won't

let other people's feelings determine your own, those things sound reasonable

and healthy. Do you see the difference?

I agree that this woman is waving some big red flags at you on a first date. How

did you feel about it overall?

Sveta

[Guest guest]

thank you, everyone for all the feedback.

Most of the date went fairly well.  It was pretty light and upbeat.  The

negative feelings arose organically from our meandering conversation, and lasted

less than two minutes.  I had validated her experiences, b/c part of me feels

the same way, but I also didn't want to feel negative on the date just then and

there.  

I guess I'm still figuring out how to gracefully navigate emotional boundaries.

 I find humor to be very useful for this:  I'll announce something along the

lines of " I'm changing the topic to something that I can brag and boast about to

show you how AWESOME I am. " .  Other than humor, is their any other way to

gracefully navigate emotional boundaries.

[Guest guest]

I think your reaction was appropriate and compassionate. As everyone has said,

this was a first date, so you'd want to keep it light, and your using humor

there was perfect. At the same time, you were cognizant of (1) how you felt

about the moment and (2) how you might try a different approach under different

circumstances. That is amazing! It's true that we're not responsible for other

people's emotions and we're not supposed to control them, but there are many

times in relationships that we feel empathy or understanding for someone and

want to help them find a better place emotionally. That's what we do here for

each other. It's part of being human, one of the good parts. You're on the right

path here. It may not feel like it, because it feels so different than your

relationship with your parents. But you're feeling, you're thinking, you're

being respectful of others. This is all good stuff. 

As for your discomfort with embarrassing scenes in movies, it may help to just

sit through a bunch and see how you feel. It's called exposure therapy, and it

can work really well and very quickly. I myself was terrified of fire until I

watched Backdraft. The way the de Niro character talks about fire, he had

so much respect for it, that I learned to let go of my phobia about it and let

myself see its beauty. It was so hard for me to watch, but I did it. So I would

say give it a try, see if it works for you. If not, try something else. As a PhD

in science, I'm sure you know more than a little about experiments. Set it up,

make it happen. And best of luck!

________________________________

To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " WTOAdultChildren1 >

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:44 PM

Subject: Feeling question and thoughts

 

I was on a first date a couple nights ago, and the woman was expressing negative

regarding the career prospects post science PhD.  I was commiserating with

her, (I've also gots the science PhD) but it seems like she was getting stuck in

some negative emotions.  I was feeling uncomfortable with her expressing that

emotion, so I said something along the lines of " I know we're not making bank,

but I'm happy.  It's enough take a hot date out for some great food. "  That

got a smile and laugh out of her.  

While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings.  I feel this wasn't the correct approach.  In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk.  Or

would you like a distraction? "  Some times they want to talk, sometimes they

want a distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in

growing up in an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional

state.  I want to move beyond that sort of interaction.

In a related thought, I can't watch embarrassing scenes in movies.  It just

makes me feel horrible.  It's been like this since my teen years.  But I think

that forcing myself to watch it would force me to confront painful feelings.

 Maybe if I can allow myself to feel yucky feelings, I'll have an easier being

around others with yucky feelings.

Does any of this resonate with anyone?

[Guest guest]

I think your reaction was appropriate and compassionate. As everyone has said,

this was a first date, so you'd want to keep it light, and your using humor

there was perfect. At the same time, you were cognizant of (1) how you felt

about the moment and (2) how you might try a different approach under different

circumstances. That is amazing! It's true that we're not responsible for other

people's emotions and we're not supposed to control them, but there are many

times in relationships that we feel empathy or understanding for someone and

want to help them find a better place emotionally. That's what we do here for

each other. It's part of being human, one of the good parts. You're on the right

path here. It may not feel like it, because it feels so different than your

relationship with your parents. But you're feeling, you're thinking, you're

being respectful of others. This is all good stuff. 

As for your discomfort with embarrassing scenes in movies, it may help to just

sit through a bunch and see how you feel. It's called exposure therapy, and it

can work really well and very quickly. I myself was terrified of fire until I

watched Backdraft. The way the de Niro character talks about fire, he had

so much respect for it, that I learned to let go of my phobia about it and let

myself see its beauty. It was so hard for me to watch, but I did it. So I would

say give it a try, see if it works for you. If not, try something else. As a PhD

in science, I'm sure you know more than a little about experiments. Set it up,

make it happen. And best of luck!

________________________________

To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " WTOAdultChildren1 >

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:44 PM

Subject: Feeling question and thoughts

 

I was on a first date a couple nights ago, and the woman was expressing negative

regarding the career prospects post science PhD.  I was commiserating with

her, (I've also gots the science PhD) but it seems like she was getting stuck in

some negative emotions.  I was feeling uncomfortable with her expressing that

emotion, so I said something along the lines of " I know we're not making bank,

but I'm happy.  It's enough take a hot date out for some great food. "  That

got a smile and laugh out of her.  

While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings.  I feel this wasn't the correct approach.  In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk.  Or

would you like a distraction? "  Some times they want to talk, sometimes they

want a distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in

growing up in an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional

state.  I want to move beyond that sort of interaction.

In a related thought, I can't watch embarrassing scenes in movies.  It just

makes me feel horrible.  It's been like this since my teen years.  But I think

that forcing myself to watch it would force me to confront painful feelings.

 Maybe if I can allow myself to feel yucky feelings, I'll have an easier being

around others with yucky feelings.

Does any of this resonate with anyone?

[Guest guest]

>

> While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings.  I feel this wasn't the correct approach.  In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk.  Or

would you like a distraction? "  Some times they want to talk, sometimes they

want a distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in

growing up in an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional

state.  I want to move beyond that sort of interaction.

It definitely resonates with me, because I have often gone through very

disappointing times in my life and then been attacked because I couldn't get

myself out of the negative feelings associated with the dismal times I was going

through. Being admonished for having negative feelings doesn't help one bit.

I am on a support group on facebook for people with glioblastoma (although it's

mostly carers and relatives) and noticed the same thing there. One night a

woman who was having a very rough time posted in saying how badly she felt and

sharing that she had a very low outlook on life and the future, and several

people posted to admonish her for not being more positive. It turned into a

small cat fight.

I guess what I'm saying is attacking people in very negative situations who are

having a hard time seeing anything at all positive, isn't going to help them

feel more positive at all, and many times people feel sort of helpless in this

situation, and negative toward the person in the situation. What to do?

--

[Guest guest]

>

> While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings.  I feel this wasn't the correct approach.  In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk.  Or

would you like a distraction? "  Some times they want to talk, sometimes they

want a distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in

growing up in an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional

state.  I want to move beyond that sort of interaction.

It definitely resonates with me, because I have often gone through very

disappointing times in my life and then been attacked because I couldn't get

myself out of the negative feelings associated with the dismal times I was going

through. Being admonished for having negative feelings doesn't help one bit.

I am on a support group on facebook for people with glioblastoma (although it's

mostly carers and relatives) and noticed the same thing there. One night a

woman who was having a very rough time posted in saying how badly she felt and

sharing that she had a very low outlook on life and the future, and several

people posted to admonish her for not being more positive. It turned into a

small cat fight.

I guess what I'm saying is attacking people in very negative situations who are

having a hard time seeing anything at all positive, isn't going to help them

feel more positive at all, and many times people feel sort of helpless in this

situation, and negative toward the person in the situation. What to do?

--

[Guest guest]

>

> While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings.  I feel this wasn't the correct approach.  In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk.  Or

would you like a distraction? "  Some times they want to talk, sometimes they

want a distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in

growing up in an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional

state.  I want to move beyond that sort of interaction.

It definitely resonates with me, because I have often gone through very

disappointing times in my life and then been attacked because I couldn't get

myself out of the negative feelings associated with the dismal times I was going

through. Being admonished for having negative feelings doesn't help one bit.

I am on a support group on facebook for people with glioblastoma (although it's

mostly carers and relatives) and noticed the same thing there. One night a

woman who was having a very rough time posted in saying how badly she felt and

sharing that she had a very low outlook on life and the future, and several

people posted to admonish her for not being more positive. It turned into a

small cat fight.

I guess what I'm saying is attacking people in very negative situations who are

having a hard time seeing anything at all positive, isn't going to help them

feel more positive at all, and many times people feel sort of helpless in this

situation, and negative toward the person in the situation. What to do?

--

[Guest guest]

Negative feelings are supposed to mix with positive ones. it is part of thinking

in the grey area. I think expecting anyone to be completely happy all the time

is very Nada. that is what my Nada wants us to do. only she is allowed to

complain.

this sounds like a reasonable complaint about a career to me. the real red flag

is if she were to claim it is perfect in every way.

I think this is all just classic KO over thinking. just my two cents.

you might not like people to be unhappy with anything because you grew up

expected to please the unpleaseble. others being unhappy is not your

responsibility. and they should be allowed to feel it.

Meikjn

>

> thank you, everyone for all the feedback.

>

> Most of the date went fairly well.  It was pretty light and upbeat.  The

negative feelings arose organically from our meandering conversation, and lasted

less than two minutes.  I had validated her experiences, b/c part of me feels

the same way, but I also didn't want to feel negative on the date just then and

there.  

>

> I guess I'm still figuring out how to gracefully navigate emotional

boundaries.  I find humor to be very useful for this:  I'll announce something

along the lines of " I'm changing the topic to something that I can brag and

boast about to show you how AWESOME I am. " .  Other than humor, is their any

other way to gracefully navigate emotional boundaries.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Negative feelings are supposed to mix with positive ones. it is part of thinking

in the grey area. I think expecting anyone to be completely happy all the time

is very Nada. that is what my Nada wants us to do. only she is allowed to

complain.

this sounds like a reasonable complaint about a career to me. the real red flag

is if she were to claim it is perfect in every way.

I think this is all just classic KO over thinking. just my two cents.

you might not like people to be unhappy with anything because you grew up

expected to please the unpleaseble. others being unhappy is not your

responsibility. and they should be allowed to feel it.

Meikjn

>

> thank you, everyone for all the feedback.

>

> Most of the date went fairly well.  It was pretty light and upbeat.  The

negative feelings arose organically from our meandering conversation, and lasted

less than two minutes.  I had validated her experiences, b/c part of me feels

the same way, but I also didn't want to feel negative on the date just then and

there.  

>

> I guess I'm still figuring out how to gracefully navigate emotional

boundaries.  I find humor to be very useful for this:  I'll announce something

along the lines of " I'm changing the topic to something that I can brag and

boast about to show you how AWESOME I am. " .  Other than humor, is their any

other way to gracefully navigate emotional boundaries.

>

>

[Guest guest]

There's a difference between allowing another to express negative emotion and

taking responsibility for it. If your nada or fada was anything like my nada,

you were strongly trained to take responsibility for it and for helping her to

feel better. So it's a tricky business filled with triggers. Still your date

was being honest about how she felt about an important issue in her life and it

may have been important to her to know how you would react to that. There's no

bad or good here to me, it just kind of IS. If she's looking for a partner who

will be a " rock " for her and help her deal with her feelings about this you've

shown her you aren't interested in the job -- and that's okay, no one says you

have to take that job or even if it is healthy to do so. I tend to err on the

side of helping people with their feelings too much so my learning direction is

to get less detached.

Eliza

>

> I was on a first date a couple nights ago, and the woman was expressing

negative regarding the career prospects post science PhD.  I

was commiserating with her, (I've also gots the science PhD) but it seems like

she was getting stuck in some negative emotions.  I was feeling uncomfortable

with her expressing that emotion, so I said something along the lines of " I know

we're not making bank, but I'm happy.  It's enough take a hot date out for some

great food. "  That got a smile and laugh out of her.  

>

> While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings.  I feel this wasn't the correct approach.  In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk.  Or would

you like a distraction? "  Some times they want to talk, sometimes they want a

distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in growing up in

an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional state.  I want to

move beyond that sort of interaction.

>

> In a related thought, I can't watch embarrassing scenes in movies.  It just

makes me feel horrible.  It's been like this since my teen years.  But I think

that forcing myself to watch it would force me to confront painful feelings.

 Maybe if I can allow myself to feel yucky feelings, I'll have an easier being

around others with yucky feelings.

>

> Does any of this resonate with anyone?

>

>

[Guest guest]

There's a difference between allowing another to express negative emotion and

taking responsibility for it. If your nada or fada was anything like my nada,

you were strongly trained to take responsibility for it and for helping her to

feel better. So it's a tricky business filled with triggers. Still your date

was being honest about how she felt about an important issue in her life and it

may have been important to her to know how you would react to that. There's no

bad or good here to me, it just kind of IS. If she's looking for a partner who

will be a " rock " for her and help her deal with her feelings about this you've

shown her you aren't interested in the job -- and that's okay, no one says you

have to take that job or even if it is healthy to do so. I tend to err on the

side of helping people with their feelings too much so my learning direction is

to get less detached.

Eliza

>

> I was on a first date a couple nights ago, and the woman was expressing

negative regarding the career prospects post science PhD.  I

was commiserating with her, (I've also gots the science PhD) but it seems like

she was getting stuck in some negative emotions.  I was feeling uncomfortable

with her expressing that emotion, so I said something along the lines of " I know

we're not making bank, but I'm happy.  It's enough take a hot date out for some

great food. "  That got a smile and laugh out of her.  

>

> While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings.  I feel this wasn't the correct approach.  In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk.  Or would

you like a distraction? "  Some times they want to talk, sometimes they want a

distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in growing up in

an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional state.  I want to

move beyond that sort of interaction.

>

> In a related thought, I can't watch embarrassing scenes in movies.  It just

makes me feel horrible.  It's been like this since my teen years.  But I think

that forcing myself to watch it would force me to confront painful feelings.

 Maybe if I can allow myself to feel yucky feelings, I'll have an easier being

around others with yucky feelings.

>

> Does any of this resonate with anyone?

>

>

[Guest guest]

There's a difference between allowing another to express negative emotion and

taking responsibility for it. If your nada or fada was anything like my nada,

you were strongly trained to take responsibility for it and for helping her to

feel better. So it's a tricky business filled with triggers. Still your date

was being honest about how she felt about an important issue in her life and it

may have been important to her to know how you would react to that. There's no

bad or good here to me, it just kind of IS. If she's looking for a partner who

will be a " rock " for her and help her deal with her feelings about this you've

shown her you aren't interested in the job -- and that's okay, no one says you

have to take that job or even if it is healthy to do so. I tend to err on the

side of helping people with their feelings too much so my learning direction is

to get less detached.

Eliza

>

> I was on a first date a couple nights ago, and the woman was expressing

negative regarding the career prospects post science PhD.  I

was commiserating with her, (I've also gots the science PhD) but it seems like

she was getting stuck in some negative emotions.  I was feeling uncomfortable

with her expressing that emotion, so I said something along the lines of " I know

we're not making bank, but I'm happy.  It's enough take a hot date out for some

great food. "  That got a smile and laugh out of her.  

>

> While reflecting on this, I realize I was trying to prevent her from feeling

negative feelings.  I feel this wasn't the correct approach.  In extreme

circumstances (e.g. a death), I ask " I can listen if you want to talk.  Or would

you like a distraction? "  Some times they want to talk, sometimes they want a

distraction. I know that my response during the date originates in growing up in

an environment where I was responsible for my FADA's emotional state.  I want to

move beyond that sort of interaction.

>

> In a related thought, I can't watch embarrassing scenes in movies.  It just

makes me feel horrible.  It's been like this since my teen years.  But I think

that forcing myself to watch it would force me to confront painful feelings.

 Maybe if I can allow myself to feel yucky feelings, I'll have an easier being

around others with yucky feelings.

>

> Does any of this resonate with anyone?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if you were just uncomfortable with an inappropriately high degree of

emotiveness and self-disclosure for a first date and subtly set a boundary on

how close you wanted to get to someone you were just starting to get to know.

Just a thought.

Ashana