Re: The idea that we signed up for this

[Guest guest]

Good question! My opinion is that being a KO can be something that will give us

a chance for spiritual progress. I don't believe that before we were born we

chose, or could choose our family. If before we were born we had the insight to

choose a family for our spritual progress, we'd likely be far enough along that

we could instead choose a family that needed us to learn other things - like

having a loving parent that, for example, was in a wheelchair.

To get us out of the victim roll, we can - and do - grow to realize that it

wouldn't matter who the child was (us or the kid across the street), that nada's

victims are warm bodies near her. Because of what appears to be a strong genetic

trait in several family members in my family, new bp's come out of the womb with

the very same expressions, " favorite lines, " and behaviors.

Therapists I've known have said that NC truly is the most satisfying and

realistic option. A mother of adopted children who were also mentally ill said

she has love for the children but a healthy respect for their illness - and when

the children (who were mentally ill) turned 18 and left the home, she moved away

to protect herself and the healthy kids. (The children had a history of violence

in the home - she'd adopted a sibling group so it got pretty rough.)

Flowers

The idea that we signed up for this

>

>Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've heard

before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we were born,

we decided what family we would be born into and what experience we would have.

This would have all been in order to learn to deal with adversity, to help our

souls make spiritual progress.

>

>Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it that

way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the victim role.

>

>I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out there. I'm

not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to look at things.

If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine that we made this

choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and thrive despite the

adversity.

>

>Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

>

>Deanna

>

>

>

>------------------------------------

>

> **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book The Essential

Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop

Walking on Eggshells, available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write

@.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

>

>To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe .

>

>Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " and

" Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)

[Guest guest]

I've heard the idea before - and laughed at it. I don't buy it. I signed up for

this? I don't think so ... 

But I should have prefaced that with my one overarching belief. I believe in a

sovereign God who created the world and placed me here for some purpose. So I

don't really think I had any choice in the matter, anyway. God chose me. God

chose my parents. God chose to put us together. I don't like it. I don't quite

understand it, but there it is.

I do believe that He chose to put me in this situation so that I could learn

some things. But, as far as me putting myself with that " mother " just so I could

learn and progress my spirit? " Hell to the naw! "

Does this belief make me a perpetual victim and feel less empowered? I don't

know. I don't really think of myself as a " victim. " And I don't blame God. It's

just my life. It's how it is, and I know other people have experienced a lot

worse than I have, so I can't even see myself as THAT much of a victim, anyway.

I just have to learn to deal with the cards that have been dealt me.  

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 11:54 AM

Subject: The idea that we signed up for this

 

Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've heard

before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we were born,

we decided what family we would be born into and what experience we would have.

This would have all been in order to learn to deal with adversity, to help our

souls make spiritual progress.

Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it that

way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the victim role.

I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out there. I'm

not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to look at things.

If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine that we made this

choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and thrive despite the

adversity.

Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

I can't help wondering if the mother would have felt the same way if they had

been her biological children. I'm just asking because my youngest girl reminds

me a lot of nada sometimes  (and she's just over one), and my three-year-old

displays the behaviors too (but nada acts like a three-year-old, so these may

just be perfectly normal behaviors). I'm not too worried about them yet, but

it's always in the back of my mind ...

I wonder what I would do if my children, both of whom I carried inside me every

day for eight-nine months, actually did exhibit full-blown BPD or whatever when

they get older. I don't think I could go NC with them. Then again, I can't bring

myself to go NC with nada (for the some biological body bond reason?). But I

don't necessarily think I'd feel differently even if they were adopted children

because I'm the type who gets extremely attached to people (and animals) very

easily. 

________________________________

A mother of adopted children who were also mentally ill said she has love for

the children but a healthy respect for their illness - and when the children

(who were mentally ill) turned 18 and left the home, she moved away to protect

herself and the healthy kids. (The children had a history of violence in the

home - she'd adopted a sibling group so it got pretty rough.)

Flowers

[Guest guest]

I can't help wondering if the mother would have felt the same way if they had

been her biological children. I'm just asking because my youngest girl reminds

me a lot of nada sometimes  (and she's just over one), and my three-year-old

displays the behaviors too (but nada acts like a three-year-old, so these may

just be perfectly normal behaviors). I'm not too worried about them yet, but

it's always in the back of my mind ...

I wonder what I would do if my children, both of whom I carried inside me every

day for eight-nine months, actually did exhibit full-blown BPD or whatever when

they get older. I don't think I could go NC with them. Then again, I can't bring

myself to go NC with nada (for the some biological body bond reason?). But I

don't necessarily think I'd feel differently even if they were adopted children

because I'm the type who gets extremely attached to people (and animals) very

easily. 

________________________________

A mother of adopted children who were also mentally ill said she has love for

the children but a healthy respect for their illness - and when the children

(who were mentally ill) turned 18 and left the home, she moved away to protect

herself and the healthy kids. (The children had a history of violence in the

home - she'd adopted a sibling group so it got pretty rough.)

Flowers

[Guest guest]

I can't help wondering if the mother would have felt the same way if they had

been her biological children. I'm just asking because my youngest girl reminds

me a lot of nada sometimes  (and she's just over one), and my three-year-old

displays the behaviors too (but nada acts like a three-year-old, so these may

just be perfectly normal behaviors). I'm not too worried about them yet, but

it's always in the back of my mind ...

I wonder what I would do if my children, both of whom I carried inside me every

day for eight-nine months, actually did exhibit full-blown BPD or whatever when

they get older. I don't think I could go NC with them. Then again, I can't bring

myself to go NC with nada (for the some biological body bond reason?). But I

don't necessarily think I'd feel differently even if they were adopted children

because I'm the type who gets extremely attached to people (and animals) very

easily. 

________________________________

A mother of adopted children who were also mentally ill said she has love for

the children but a healthy respect for their illness - and when the children

(who were mentally ill) turned 18 and left the home, she moved away to protect

herself and the healthy kids. (The children had a history of violence in the

home - she'd adopted a sibling group so it got pretty rough.)

Flowers

[Guest guest]

My opinion is that if this philosophy works for *you*, then, that's great. Each

of us needs to find the book or the philosophy or the religion or the therapy

that *resonates* with us, with our individual core needs and circumstances, and

helps us deal with the issues we struggle with due to having been raised by

mentally ill parents.

The philosophy you described doesn't resonate with me but if it works for you

and for others, then I am all for it.

To give some context, I am currently something of an agnostic. It just seems

more likely to me that when human brains evolved to the point that we developed

self-awareness including awareness of our own mortality, we invented the idea

that our life-force or consciousness exists separately from (or is simply housed

in) our bodies, so we could believe that our individual consciousness exists in

some form before and/or after death.

So, take that path if it leads to greater peace and healing for you; its all

about discovering what *does* work for you.

-Annie

>

> Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've heard

before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we were born,

we decided what family we would be born into and what experience we would have.

This would have all been in order to learn to deal with adversity, to help our

souls make spiritual progress.

>

> Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it that

way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the victim role.

>

> I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out there.

I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to look at

things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine that we made

this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and thrive despite the

adversity.

>

> Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

My opinion is that if this philosophy works for *you*, then, that's great. Each

of us needs to find the book or the philosophy or the religion or the therapy

that *resonates* with us, with our individual core needs and circumstances, and

helps us deal with the issues we struggle with due to having been raised by

mentally ill parents.

The philosophy you described doesn't resonate with me but if it works for you

and for others, then I am all for it.

To give some context, I am currently something of an agnostic. It just seems

more likely to me that when human brains evolved to the point that we developed

self-awareness including awareness of our own mortality, we invented the idea

that our life-force or consciousness exists separately from (or is simply housed

in) our bodies, so we could believe that our individual consciousness exists in

some form before and/or after death.

So, take that path if it leads to greater peace and healing for you; its all

about discovering what *does* work for you.

-Annie

>

> Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've heard

before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we were born,

we decided what family we would be born into and what experience we would have.

This would have all been in order to learn to deal with adversity, to help our

souls make spiritual progress.

>

> Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it that

way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the victim role.

>

> I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out there.

I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to look at

things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine that we made

this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and thrive despite the

adversity.

>

> Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

My opinion is that if this philosophy works for *you*, then, that's great. Each

of us needs to find the book or the philosophy or the religion or the therapy

that *resonates* with us, with our individual core needs and circumstances, and

helps us deal with the issues we struggle with due to having been raised by

mentally ill parents.

The philosophy you described doesn't resonate with me but if it works for you

and for others, then I am all for it.

To give some context, I am currently something of an agnostic. It just seems

more likely to me that when human brains evolved to the point that we developed

self-awareness including awareness of our own mortality, we invented the idea

that our life-force or consciousness exists separately from (or is simply housed

in) our bodies, so we could believe that our individual consciousness exists in

some form before and/or after death.

So, take that path if it leads to greater peace and healing for you; its all

about discovering what *does* work for you.

-Annie

>

> Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've heard

before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we were born,

we decided what family we would be born into and what experience we would have.

This would have all been in order to learn to deal with adversity, to help our

souls make spiritual progress.

>

> Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it that

way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the victim role.

>

> I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out there.

I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to look at

things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine that we made

this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and thrive despite the

adversity.

>

> Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

Hm, I guess if you're stuck in the situation with a mentally ill parent,

this might give you some solace. But you'd want to be careful that you

didn't get the idea that you were somehow to " blame " because you " chose " to

be in a situation where you would be abused before you were even born. I'd

also be wary of using " God (or my Higher Power of whatever name and nature)

wanted this for me, therefore I have to stick it out " as a reason not to

get out and free yourself, if that's what you really need and want to do.

To reword, if you really ARE stuck in a bad situation, feeling like there's

some purpose or meaning to it (spiritual growth) could be quite helpful I'd

guess. But it would be unfortunate if someone's belief that they " chose "

the mess they ended up in led them to ignore other options they could take

to get themselves out of it. Think of it this way: What if battered wives

told themselves that God chose them to be battered wives before they were

born, and that therefore she has to stand by their man even though he's

likely to seriously injure or harm her if his abuse goes unchecked? Or if

she uses this as a reason not to get her kids out? ( " They must have chosen

to suffer their father's wrath with me, before they were born. " )

And if you wanted you could very easily just flip this around: " God put me

here so that my parent would love me, and that I would leave them because

of their mental illness, and that my leaving would give them the

opportunity to seek the help they so desperately need. God's purpose in

putting me here was for me to a be a goad for my mentally ill parent to

make an effort to try and get better, something he or she would not have

done if I had not left. "

So while there's probably some comfort in viewing a bad situation as God's

will, I think you have to be kind of careful with that sort of thinking. It

can lead to as many problems as it solves. Take the notion that " God only

burdens us with as much as he thinks we can handle, therefore if we have

heavy burdens it means God believes we are strong enough to handle them. "

It can be comforting and possibly a source of inner strength, but what if

it stops you from reaching out to get help that's available and that you

need? Perhaps loading you with burdens you really CAN'T handle is God's

way of teaching you humility and encouraging you to learn that it is

sometimes a good thing to need other human beings. Or perhaps he wants us

to learn to accept and be comfortable with the notion of sometimes

inevitable failure.

And what about the people that collapse every day under intolerable

burdens? Are they failures? Or did God make a " mistake " when he judged

their burden level?

Can we ever really claim to know the mind of God? Isn't that hubris?

Or to quote a favorite poem by Rudyard Kipling -- perhaps God is not found

in the abuse or in the intolerable burden, but in our REACTION to the

abuse, or how we deal with the fact that the burden is, in fact,

intolerable.

" Oh, veiled and secret Power

Whose paths we seek in vain,

Be with us in our hour

Of overthrow and pain;

That we - by which sure token

We know Thy ways are true -

In spite of being broken,

*Because of being broken,*

* May rise and build anew.*

* Stand up and build anew! " *

*

*

*-- Hymn of Breaking Strain*

*

*

*

*

-- Jen H.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:13 AM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> My opinion is that if this philosophy works for *you*, then, that's great.

> Each of us needs to find the book or the philosophy or the religion or the

> therapy that *resonates* with us, with our individual core needs and

> circumstances, and helps us deal with the issues we struggle with due to

> having been raised by mentally ill parents.

>

> The philosophy you described doesn't resonate with me but if it works for

> you and for others, then I am all for it.

>

> To give some context, I am currently something of an agnostic. It just

> seems more likely to me that when human brains evolved to the point that we

> developed self-awareness including awareness of our own mortality, we

> invented the idea that our life-force or consciousness exists separately

> from (or is simply housed in) our bodies, so we could believe that our

> individual consciousness exists in some form before and/or after death.

>

> So, take that path if it leads to greater peace and healing for you; its

> all about discovering what *does* work for you.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've

> heard before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we

> were born, we decided what family we would be born into and what experience

> we would have. This would have all been in order to learn to deal with

> adversity, to help our souls make spiritual progress.

> >

> > Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it

> that way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the

> victim role.

> >

> > I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out

> there. I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to

> look at things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine

> that we made this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and

> thrive despite the adversity.

> >

> > Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hm, I guess if you're stuck in the situation with a mentally ill parent,

this might give you some solace. But you'd want to be careful that you

didn't get the idea that you were somehow to " blame " because you " chose " to

be in a situation where you would be abused before you were even born. I'd

also be wary of using " God (or my Higher Power of whatever name and nature)

wanted this for me, therefore I have to stick it out " as a reason not to

get out and free yourself, if that's what you really need and want to do.

To reword, if you really ARE stuck in a bad situation, feeling like there's

some purpose or meaning to it (spiritual growth) could be quite helpful I'd

guess. But it would be unfortunate if someone's belief that they " chose "

the mess they ended up in led them to ignore other options they could take

to get themselves out of it. Think of it this way: What if battered wives

told themselves that God chose them to be battered wives before they were

born, and that therefore she has to stand by their man even though he's

likely to seriously injure or harm her if his abuse goes unchecked? Or if

she uses this as a reason not to get her kids out? ( " They must have chosen

to suffer their father's wrath with me, before they were born. " )

And if you wanted you could very easily just flip this around: " God put me

here so that my parent would love me, and that I would leave them because

of their mental illness, and that my leaving would give them the

opportunity to seek the help they so desperately need. God's purpose in

putting me here was for me to a be a goad for my mentally ill parent to

make an effort to try and get better, something he or she would not have

done if I had not left. "

So while there's probably some comfort in viewing a bad situation as God's

will, I think you have to be kind of careful with that sort of thinking. It

can lead to as many problems as it solves. Take the notion that " God only

burdens us with as much as he thinks we can handle, therefore if we have

heavy burdens it means God believes we are strong enough to handle them. "

It can be comforting and possibly a source of inner strength, but what if

it stops you from reaching out to get help that's available and that you

need? Perhaps loading you with burdens you really CAN'T handle is God's

way of teaching you humility and encouraging you to learn that it is

sometimes a good thing to need other human beings. Or perhaps he wants us

to learn to accept and be comfortable with the notion of sometimes

inevitable failure.

And what about the people that collapse every day under intolerable

burdens? Are they failures? Or did God make a " mistake " when he judged

their burden level?

Can we ever really claim to know the mind of God? Isn't that hubris?

Or to quote a favorite poem by Rudyard Kipling -- perhaps God is not found

in the abuse or in the intolerable burden, but in our REACTION to the

abuse, or how we deal with the fact that the burden is, in fact,

intolerable.

" Oh, veiled and secret Power

Whose paths we seek in vain,

Be with us in our hour

Of overthrow and pain;

That we - by which sure token

We know Thy ways are true -

In spite of being broken,

*Because of being broken,*

* May rise and build anew.*

* Stand up and build anew! " *

*

*

*-- Hymn of Breaking Strain*

*

*

*

*

-- Jen H.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:13 AM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> My opinion is that if this philosophy works for *you*, then, that's great.

> Each of us needs to find the book or the philosophy or the religion or the

> therapy that *resonates* with us, with our individual core needs and

> circumstances, and helps us deal with the issues we struggle with due to

> having been raised by mentally ill parents.

>

> The philosophy you described doesn't resonate with me but if it works for

> you and for others, then I am all for it.

>

> To give some context, I am currently something of an agnostic. It just

> seems more likely to me that when human brains evolved to the point that we

> developed self-awareness including awareness of our own mortality, we

> invented the idea that our life-force or consciousness exists separately

> from (or is simply housed in) our bodies, so we could believe that our

> individual consciousness exists in some form before and/or after death.

>

> So, take that path if it leads to greater peace and healing for you; its

> all about discovering what *does* work for you.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've

> heard before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we

> were born, we decided what family we would be born into and what experience

> we would have. This would have all been in order to learn to deal with

> adversity, to help our souls make spiritual progress.

> >

> > Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it

> that way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the

> victim role.

> >

> > I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out

> there. I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to

> look at things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine

> that we made this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and

> thrive despite the adversity.

> >

> > Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hm, I guess if you're stuck in the situation with a mentally ill parent,

this might give you some solace. But you'd want to be careful that you

didn't get the idea that you were somehow to " blame " because you " chose " to

be in a situation where you would be abused before you were even born. I'd

also be wary of using " God (or my Higher Power of whatever name and nature)

wanted this for me, therefore I have to stick it out " as a reason not to

get out and free yourself, if that's what you really need and want to do.

To reword, if you really ARE stuck in a bad situation, feeling like there's

some purpose or meaning to it (spiritual growth) could be quite helpful I'd

guess. But it would be unfortunate if someone's belief that they " chose "

the mess they ended up in led them to ignore other options they could take

to get themselves out of it. Think of it this way: What if battered wives

told themselves that God chose them to be battered wives before they were

born, and that therefore she has to stand by their man even though he's

likely to seriously injure or harm her if his abuse goes unchecked? Or if

she uses this as a reason not to get her kids out? ( " They must have chosen

to suffer their father's wrath with me, before they were born. " )

And if you wanted you could very easily just flip this around: " God put me

here so that my parent would love me, and that I would leave them because

of their mental illness, and that my leaving would give them the

opportunity to seek the help they so desperately need. God's purpose in

putting me here was for me to a be a goad for my mentally ill parent to

make an effort to try and get better, something he or she would not have

done if I had not left. "

So while there's probably some comfort in viewing a bad situation as God's

will, I think you have to be kind of careful with that sort of thinking. It

can lead to as many problems as it solves. Take the notion that " God only

burdens us with as much as he thinks we can handle, therefore if we have

heavy burdens it means God believes we are strong enough to handle them. "

It can be comforting and possibly a source of inner strength, but what if

it stops you from reaching out to get help that's available and that you

need? Perhaps loading you with burdens you really CAN'T handle is God's

way of teaching you humility and encouraging you to learn that it is

sometimes a good thing to need other human beings. Or perhaps he wants us

to learn to accept and be comfortable with the notion of sometimes

inevitable failure.

And what about the people that collapse every day under intolerable

burdens? Are they failures? Or did God make a " mistake " when he judged

their burden level?

Can we ever really claim to know the mind of God? Isn't that hubris?

Or to quote a favorite poem by Rudyard Kipling -- perhaps God is not found

in the abuse or in the intolerable burden, but in our REACTION to the

abuse, or how we deal with the fact that the burden is, in fact,

intolerable.

" Oh, veiled and secret Power

Whose paths we seek in vain,

Be with us in our hour

Of overthrow and pain;

That we - by which sure token

We know Thy ways are true -

In spite of being broken,

*Because of being broken,*

* May rise and build anew.*

* Stand up and build anew! " *

*

*

*-- Hymn of Breaking Strain*

*

*

*

*

-- Jen H.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:13 AM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> My opinion is that if this philosophy works for *you*, then, that's great.

> Each of us needs to find the book or the philosophy or the religion or the

> therapy that *resonates* with us, with our individual core needs and

> circumstances, and helps us deal with the issues we struggle with due to

> having been raised by mentally ill parents.

>

> The philosophy you described doesn't resonate with me but if it works for

> you and for others, then I am all for it.

>

> To give some context, I am currently something of an agnostic. It just

> seems more likely to me that when human brains evolved to the point that we

> developed self-awareness including awareness of our own mortality, we

> invented the idea that our life-force or consciousness exists separately

> from (or is simply housed in) our bodies, so we could believe that our

> individual consciousness exists in some form before and/or after death.

>

> So, take that path if it leads to greater peace and healing for you; its

> all about discovering what *does* work for you.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've

> heard before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we

> were born, we decided what family we would be born into and what experience

> we would have. This would have all been in order to learn to deal with

> adversity, to help our souls make spiritual progress.

> >

> > Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it

> that way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the

> victim role.

> >

> > I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out

> there. I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to

> look at things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine

> that we made this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and

> thrive despite the adversity.

> >

> > Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Both sides of my narcissistic family have offered me this tidbit of

" wisdom " . First of all it's just a thought and not at all a fact and it has

been presented to me as such by people trying to dismiss my pain. I do

believe I remember past lives and other mothers I had. I remember two of

them and while they were flawed, they loved me and if I think about them I

miss them very much and I loved them intensely. This mother in this life is

a monster. Anyway, if someone gets something out of this, great. But having

parents who were my worst enemies, wow, what a thing to sign up for. I

deserved way better. This idea triggers me through the effing roof. Being a

baby in the hands of a psychopathic woman, can there be any greater hell?

My answer is no.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Hawthorne jenh789@...>wrote:

> Hm, I guess if you're stuck in the situation with a mentally ill parent,

> this might give you some solace. But you'd want to be careful that you

> didn't get the idea that you were somehow to " blame " because you " chose " to

> be in a situation where you would be abused before you were even born. I'd

> also be wary of using " God (or my Higher Power of whatever name and nature)

> wanted this for me, therefore I have to stick it out " as a reason not to

> get out and free yourself, if that's what you really need and want to do.

>

> To reword, if you really ARE stuck in a bad situation, feeling like there's

> some purpose or meaning to it (spiritual growth) could be quite helpful I'd

> guess. But it would be unfortunate if someone's belief that they " chose "

> the mess they ended up in led them to ignore other options they could take

> to get themselves out of it. Think of it this way: What if battered wives

> told themselves that God chose them to be battered wives before they were

> born, and that therefore she has to stand by their man even though he's

> likely to seriously injure or harm her if his abuse goes unchecked? Or if

> she uses this as a reason not to get her kids out? ( " They must have chosen

> to suffer their father's wrath with me, before they were born. " )

>

> And if you wanted you could very easily just flip this around: " God put me

> here so that my parent would love me, and that I would leave them because

> of their mental illness, and that my leaving would give them the

> opportunity to seek the help they so desperately need. God's purpose in

> putting me here was for me to a be a goad for my mentally ill parent to

> make an effort to try and get better, something he or she would not have

> done if I had not left. "

>

> So while there's probably some comfort in viewing a bad situation as God's

> will, I think you have to be kind of careful with that sort of thinking. It

> can lead to as many problems as it solves. Take the notion that " God only

> burdens us with as much as he thinks we can handle, therefore if we have

> heavy burdens it means God believes we are strong enough to handle them. "

> It can be comforting and possibly a source of inner strength, but what if

> it stops you from reaching out to get help that's available and that you

> need? Perhaps loading you with burdens you really CAN'T handle is God's

> way of teaching you humility and encouraging you to learn that it is

> sometimes a good thing to need other human beings. Or perhaps he wants us

> to learn to accept and be comfortable with the notion of sometimes

> inevitable failure.

>

> And what about the people that collapse every day under intolerable

> burdens? Are they failures? Or did God make a " mistake " when he judged

> their burden level?

>

> Can we ever really claim to know the mind of God? Isn't that hubris?

>

> Or to quote a favorite poem by Rudyard Kipling -- perhaps God is not found

> in the abuse or in the intolerable burden, but in our REACTION to the

> abuse, or how we deal with the fact that the burden is, in fact,

> intolerable.

>

>

> " Oh, veiled and secret Power

> Whose paths we seek in vain,

> Be with us in our hour

> Of overthrow and pain;

> That we - by which sure token

> We know Thy ways are true -

> In spite of being broken,

> *Because of being broken,*

> * May rise and build anew.*

> * Stand up and build anew! " *

> *

> *

> *-- Hymn of Breaking Strain*

> *

> *

> *

> *

>

> -- Jen H.

>

> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:13 AM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...

> >wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > My opinion is that if this philosophy works for *you*, then, that's

> great.

> > Each of us needs to find the book or the philosophy or the religion or

> the

> > therapy that *resonates* with us, with our individual core needs and

> > circumstances, and helps us deal with the issues we struggle with due to

> > having been raised by mentally ill parents.

> >

> > The philosophy you described doesn't resonate with me but if it works for

> > you and for others, then I am all for it.

> >

> > To give some context, I am currently something of an agnostic. It just

> > seems more likely to me that when human brains evolved to the point that

> we

> > developed self-awareness including awareness of our own mortality, we

> > invented the idea that our life-force or consciousness exists separately

> > from (or is simply housed in) our bodies, so we could believe that our

> > individual consciousness exists in some form before and/or after death.

> >

> > So, take that path if it leads to greater peace and healing for you; its

> > all about discovering what *does* work for you.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've

> > heard before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before

> we

> > were born, we decided what family we would be born into and what

> experience

> > we would have. This would have all been in order to learn to deal with

> > adversity, to help our souls make spiritual progress.

> > >

> > > Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at

> it

> > that way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the

> > victim role.

> > >

> > > I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out

> > there. I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to

> > look at things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to

> imagine

> > that we made this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and

> > thrive despite the adversity.

> > >

> > > Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

> > >

> > > Deanna

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Both sides of my narcissistic family have offered me this tidbit of

" wisdom " . First of all it's just a thought and not at all a fact and it has

been presented to me as such by people trying to dismiss my pain. I do

believe I remember past lives and other mothers I had. I remember two of

them and while they were flawed, they loved me and if I think about them I

miss them very much and I loved them intensely. This mother in this life is

a monster. Anyway, if someone gets something out of this, great. But having

parents who were my worst enemies, wow, what a thing to sign up for. I

deserved way better. This idea triggers me through the effing roof. Being a

baby in the hands of a psychopathic woman, can there be any greater hell?

My answer is no.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Hawthorne jenh789@...>wrote:

> Hm, I guess if you're stuck in the situation with a mentally ill parent,

> this might give you some solace. But you'd want to be careful that you

> didn't get the idea that you were somehow to " blame " because you " chose " to

> be in a situation where you would be abused before you were even born. I'd

> also be wary of using " God (or my Higher Power of whatever name and nature)

> wanted this for me, therefore I have to stick it out " as a reason not to

> get out and free yourself, if that's what you really need and want to do.

>

> To reword, if you really ARE stuck in a bad situation, feeling like there's

> some purpose or meaning to it (spiritual growth) could be quite helpful I'd

> guess. But it would be unfortunate if someone's belief that they " chose "

> the mess they ended up in led them to ignore other options they could take

> to get themselves out of it. Think of it this way: What if battered wives

> told themselves that God chose them to be battered wives before they were

> born, and that therefore she has to stand by their man even though he's

> likely to seriously injure or harm her if his abuse goes unchecked? Or if

> she uses this as a reason not to get her kids out? ( " They must have chosen

> to suffer their father's wrath with me, before they were born. " )

>

> And if you wanted you could very easily just flip this around: " God put me

> here so that my parent would love me, and that I would leave them because

> of their mental illness, and that my leaving would give them the

> opportunity to seek the help they so desperately need. God's purpose in

> putting me here was for me to a be a goad for my mentally ill parent to

> make an effort to try and get better, something he or she would not have

> done if I had not left. "

>

> So while there's probably some comfort in viewing a bad situation as God's

> will, I think you have to be kind of careful with that sort of thinking. It

> can lead to as many problems as it solves. Take the notion that " God only

> burdens us with as much as he thinks we can handle, therefore if we have

> heavy burdens it means God believes we are strong enough to handle them. "

> It can be comforting and possibly a source of inner strength, but what if

> it stops you from reaching out to get help that's available and that you

> need? Perhaps loading you with burdens you really CAN'T handle is God's

> way of teaching you humility and encouraging you to learn that it is

> sometimes a good thing to need other human beings. Or perhaps he wants us

> to learn to accept and be comfortable with the notion of sometimes

> inevitable failure.

>

> And what about the people that collapse every day under intolerable

> burdens? Are they failures? Or did God make a " mistake " when he judged

> their burden level?

>

> Can we ever really claim to know the mind of God? Isn't that hubris?

>

> Or to quote a favorite poem by Rudyard Kipling -- perhaps God is not found

> in the abuse or in the intolerable burden, but in our REACTION to the

> abuse, or how we deal with the fact that the burden is, in fact,

> intolerable.

>

>

> " Oh, veiled and secret Power

> Whose paths we seek in vain,

> Be with us in our hour

> Of overthrow and pain;

> That we - by which sure token

> We know Thy ways are true -

> In spite of being broken,

> *Because of being broken,*

> * May rise and build anew.*

> * Stand up and build anew! " *

> *

> *

> *-- Hymn of Breaking Strain*

> *

> *

> *

> *

>

> -- Jen H.

>

> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:13 AM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...

> >wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > My opinion is that if this philosophy works for *you*, then, that's

> great.

> > Each of us needs to find the book or the philosophy or the religion or

> the

> > therapy that *resonates* with us, with our individual core needs and

> > circumstances, and helps us deal with the issues we struggle with due to

> > having been raised by mentally ill parents.

> >

> > The philosophy you described doesn't resonate with me but if it works for

> > you and for others, then I am all for it.

> >

> > To give some context, I am currently something of an agnostic. It just

> > seems more likely to me that when human brains evolved to the point that

> we

> > developed self-awareness including awareness of our own mortality, we

> > invented the idea that our life-force or consciousness exists separately

> > from (or is simply housed in) our bodies, so we could believe that our

> > individual consciousness exists in some form before and/or after death.

> >

> > So, take that path if it leads to greater peace and healing for you; its

> > all about discovering what *does* work for you.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've

> > heard before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before

> we

> > were born, we decided what family we would be born into and what

> experience

> > we would have. This would have all been in order to learn to deal with

> > adversity, to help our souls make spiritual progress.

> > >

> > > Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at

> it

> > that way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the

> > victim role.

> > >

> > > I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out

> > there. I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to

> > look at things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to

> imagine

> > that we made this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and

> > thrive despite the adversity.

> > >

> > > Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

> > >

> > > Deanna

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

For me, the theorehtical problem with this view is that Cluster Bs create

useless suffering. I don't believe that what they do to their children could

ever be considered 'desirable'--whether for purposes of chosen karma, or an all

powerful God's 'plan'--not for ANY reason. In my view, suffering in general can

possibly be useful if it teaches us what is destructive. If your hand gets too

close to a fire, the pain says pull it away. If you do something unhealthy,

your body hurts and asks you to stop. There could even be a place for predators

on the food chain. But for me, the suffering caused by Cluster B parents is

wholly immoral. It is our duty to avoid it, to end it, as loving or good

humans. So no matter what your belief system is, I don't believe that Cluster

Bs can be on it. I believe they are some kindof abberration, a bad weed, a

toxic presence, and it is our duty to try our best to eradicate their ability to

cause needless suffering to their own innocent children (and others in their

grasp).

--Charlie

> > >

> > > Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've

> > heard before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we

> > were born, we decided what family we would be born into and what experience

> > we would have. This would have all been in order to learn to deal with

> > adversity, to help our souls make spiritual progress.

> > >

> > > Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it

> > that way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the

> > victim role.

> > >

> > > I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out

> > there. I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to

> > look at things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine

> > that we made this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and

> > thrive despite the adversity.

> > >

> > > Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

> > >

> > > Deanna

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

For me, the theorehtical problem with this view is that Cluster Bs create

useless suffering. I don't believe that what they do to their children could

ever be considered 'desirable'--whether for purposes of chosen karma, or an all

powerful God's 'plan'--not for ANY reason. In my view, suffering in general can

possibly be useful if it teaches us what is destructive. If your hand gets too

close to a fire, the pain says pull it away. If you do something unhealthy,

your body hurts and asks you to stop. There could even be a place for predators

on the food chain. But for me, the suffering caused by Cluster B parents is

wholly immoral. It is our duty to avoid it, to end it, as loving or good

humans. So no matter what your belief system is, I don't believe that Cluster

Bs can be on it. I believe they are some kindof abberration, a bad weed, a

toxic presence, and it is our duty to try our best to eradicate their ability to

cause needless suffering to their own innocent children (and others in their

grasp).

--Charlie

> > >

> > > Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've

> > heard before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we

> > were born, we decided what family we would be born into and what experience

> > we would have. This would have all been in order to learn to deal with

> > adversity, to help our souls make spiritual progress.

> > >

> > > Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it

> > that way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the

> > victim role.

> > >

> > > I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out

> > there. I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to

> > look at things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine

> > that we made this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and

> > thrive despite the adversity.

> > >

> > > Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

> > >

> > > Deanna

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

For me, the theorehtical problem with this view is that Cluster Bs create

useless suffering. I don't believe that what they do to their children could

ever be considered 'desirable'--whether for purposes of chosen karma, or an all

powerful God's 'plan'--not for ANY reason. In my view, suffering in general can

possibly be useful if it teaches us what is destructive. If your hand gets too

close to a fire, the pain says pull it away. If you do something unhealthy,

your body hurts and asks you to stop. There could even be a place for predators

on the food chain. But for me, the suffering caused by Cluster B parents is

wholly immoral. It is our duty to avoid it, to end it, as loving or good

humans. So no matter what your belief system is, I don't believe that Cluster

Bs can be on it. I believe they are some kindof abberration, a bad weed, a

toxic presence, and it is our duty to try our best to eradicate their ability to

cause needless suffering to their own innocent children (and others in their

grasp).

--Charlie

> > >

> > > Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've

> > heard before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we

> > were born, we decided what family we would be born into and what experience

> > we would have. This would have all been in order to learn to deal with

> > adversity, to help our souls make spiritual progress.

> > >

> > > Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it

> > that way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the

> > victim role.

> > >

> > > I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out

> > there. I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to

> > look at things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine

> > that we made this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and

> > thrive despite the adversity.

> > >

> > > Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

> > >

> > > Deanna

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Millicent, I'm so sorry this was triggering for you. I was afraid it might be

for some people. I can see how it would feel that way, especially if TWO sides

of your family have offered that up to you. I wasn't offering this as a way to

dismiss anyone's pain obviously. We are all in the same boat here. Fascinating

about remembering your past lives! I've had a reading about that too, and it

was interesting.

Deanna

>

> Both sides of my narcissistic family have offered me this tidbit of

> " wisdom " . First of all it's just a thought and not at all a fact and it has

> been presented to me as such by people trying to dismiss my pain. I do

> believe I remember past lives and other mothers I had. I remember two of

> them and while they were flawed, they loved me and if I think about them I

> miss them very much and I loved them intensely. This mother in this life is

> a monster. Anyway, if someone gets something out of this, great. But having

> parents who were my worst enemies, wow, what a thing to sign up for. I

> deserved way better. This idea triggers me through the effing roof. Being a

> baby in the hands of a psychopathic woman, can there be any greater hell?

> My answer is no.

[Guest guest]

Millicent, I'm so sorry this was triggering for you. I was afraid it might be

for some people. I can see how it would feel that way, especially if TWO sides

of your family have offered that up to you. I wasn't offering this as a way to

dismiss anyone's pain obviously. We are all in the same boat here. Fascinating

about remembering your past lives! I've had a reading about that too, and it

was interesting.

Deanna

>

> Both sides of my narcissistic family have offered me this tidbit of

> " wisdom " . First of all it's just a thought and not at all a fact and it has

> been presented to me as such by people trying to dismiss my pain. I do

> believe I remember past lives and other mothers I had. I remember two of

> them and while they were flawed, they loved me and if I think about them I

> miss them very much and I loved them intensely. This mother in this life is

> a monster. Anyway, if someone gets something out of this, great. But having

> parents who were my worst enemies, wow, what a thing to sign up for. I

> deserved way better. This idea triggers me through the effing roof. Being a

> baby in the hands of a psychopathic woman, can there be any greater hell?

> My answer is no.

[Guest guest]

Millicent, I'm so sorry this was triggering for you. I was afraid it might be

for some people. I can see how it would feel that way, especially if TWO sides

of your family have offered that up to you. I wasn't offering this as a way to

dismiss anyone's pain obviously. We are all in the same boat here. Fascinating

about remembering your past lives! I've had a reading about that too, and it

was interesting.

Deanna

>

> Both sides of my narcissistic family have offered me this tidbit of

> " wisdom " . First of all it's just a thought and not at all a fact and it has

> been presented to me as such by people trying to dismiss my pain. I do

> believe I remember past lives and other mothers I had. I remember two of

> them and while they were flawed, they loved me and if I think about them I

> miss them very much and I loved them intensely. This mother in this life is

> a monster. Anyway, if someone gets something out of this, great. But having

> parents who were my worst enemies, wow, what a thing to sign up for. I

> deserved way better. This idea triggers me through the effing roof. Being a

> baby in the hands of a psychopathic woman, can there be any greater hell?

> My answer is no.

[Guest guest]

I don't know. So many horrible, horrible things happen to so many people that

this sort of thinking becomes just another way to blame them for it, just like

the political persuasion that spawns lines like, " If you're poor it's your own

fault, " and " Take a bath and get a job, " and " The laboring classes need to get

themselves into line, behave themselves, and WORK! instead of whining all the

time. " (A line I actually saw posted under a news article this week.)

Authors of this ilk are the very same people who espouse the idea that how you

feel controls everything you have experienced and will experience, and if you

don't like what you are experiencing or things aren't going well for you, it's

because you aren't believing right or aren't thinking right or haven't gotten

yourself thankful enough or feeling good enough yet.

After my life experiences I have come to realize that these philosophies are,

truly, (warning: strong expletive approaching) a L-O-A-D * O-F * S-H-I-T. I

used to own many books by Dyer, as well as Byron , Conversations with God,

etc. After the last six years I have experienced, I wanted to burn them or at

least toss them into the dumpster where they belong. But I needed money, so I

sold them at a yard sale instead.

These people have gotten RICH off these books.

Doesn't make anything in them the truth.

--

[Guest guest]

I don't know. So many horrible, horrible things happen to so many people that

this sort of thinking becomes just another way to blame them for it, just like

the political persuasion that spawns lines like, " If you're poor it's your own

fault, " and " Take a bath and get a job, " and " The laboring classes need to get

themselves into line, behave themselves, and WORK! instead of whining all the

time. " (A line I actually saw posted under a news article this week.)

Authors of this ilk are the very same people who espouse the idea that how you

feel controls everything you have experienced and will experience, and if you

don't like what you are experiencing or things aren't going well for you, it's

because you aren't believing right or aren't thinking right or haven't gotten

yourself thankful enough or feeling good enough yet.

After my life experiences I have come to realize that these philosophies are,

truly, (warning: strong expletive approaching) a L-O-A-D * O-F * S-H-I-T. I

used to own many books by Dyer, as well as Byron , Conversations with God,

etc. After the last six years I have experienced, I wanted to burn them or at

least toss them into the dumpster where they belong. But I needed money, so I

sold them at a yard sale instead.

These people have gotten RICH off these books.

Doesn't make anything in them the truth.

--

[Guest guest]

I don't know. So many horrible, horrible things happen to so many people that

this sort of thinking becomes just another way to blame them for it, just like

the political persuasion that spawns lines like, " If you're poor it's your own

fault, " and " Take a bath and get a job, " and " The laboring classes need to get

themselves into line, behave themselves, and WORK! instead of whining all the

time. " (A line I actually saw posted under a news article this week.)

Authors of this ilk are the very same people who espouse the idea that how you

feel controls everything you have experienced and will experience, and if you

don't like what you are experiencing or things aren't going well for you, it's

because you aren't believing right or aren't thinking right or haven't gotten

yourself thankful enough or feeling good enough yet.

After my life experiences I have come to realize that these philosophies are,

truly, (warning: strong expletive approaching) a L-O-A-D * O-F * S-H-I-T. I

used to own many books by Dyer, as well as Byron , Conversations with God,

etc. After the last six years I have experienced, I wanted to burn them or at

least toss them into the dumpster where they belong. But I needed money, so I

sold them at a yard sale instead.

These people have gotten RICH off these books.

Doesn't make anything in them the truth.

--

[Guest guest]

Alice,

I think that if one of your children turns out to have BPD

you'll recognize it and hopefully get treatment started at a

young enough age for it to do some good. BPD is not totally

untreatable even though adults with BPD almost all refuse to

have anything to do with getting treatment. You're right about

three-year-old behaviors being nada-like. Being around toddlers

really emphasizes just how much like a small child our nadas can

be. Fortunately your three-year-old will most likely grow out of

those behaviors relatively soon.

I don't think most parents would feel differently about children

adopted at a young age versus biological children. Either way

they should be loved and there should be a bond. If your child

turns out to be so mentally ill and toxic that you can't safely

have contact with them, it is going to be a hard choice either

way.

At 10:03 AM 04/28/2012 Alice Spiedon wrote:

>I can't help wondering if the mother would have felt the same

>way if they had been her biological children. I'm just asking

>because my youngest girl reminds me a lot of nada

>sometimes (and she's just over one), and my three-year-old

>displays the behaviors too (but nada acts like a

>three-year-old, so these may just be perfectly normal

>behaviors). I'm not too worried about them yet, but it's always

>in the back of my mind ...

>

>I wonder what I would do if my children, both of whom I carried

>inside me every day for eight-nine months, actually did exhibit

>full-blown BPD or whatever when they get older. I don't think I

>could go NC with them. Then again, I can't bring myself to go

>NC with nada (for the some biological body bond reason?). But I

>don't necessarily think I'd feel differently even if they were

>adopted children because I'm the type who gets extremely

>attached to people (and animals) very easily.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Alice,

I think that if one of your children turns out to have BPD

you'll recognize it and hopefully get treatment started at a

young enough age for it to do some good. BPD is not totally

untreatable even though adults with BPD almost all refuse to

have anything to do with getting treatment. You're right about

three-year-old behaviors being nada-like. Being around toddlers

really emphasizes just how much like a small child our nadas can

be. Fortunately your three-year-old will most likely grow out of

those behaviors relatively soon.

I don't think most parents would feel differently about children

adopted at a young age versus biological children. Either way

they should be loved and there should be a bond. If your child

turns out to be so mentally ill and toxic that you can't safely

have contact with them, it is going to be a hard choice either

way.

At 10:03 AM 04/28/2012 Alice Spiedon wrote:

>I can't help wondering if the mother would have felt the same

>way if they had been her biological children. I'm just asking

>because my youngest girl reminds me a lot of nada

>sometimes (and she's just over one), and my three-year-old

>displays the behaviors too (but nada acts like a

>three-year-old, so these may just be perfectly normal

>behaviors). I'm not too worried about them yet, but it's always

>in the back of my mind ...

>

>I wonder what I would do if my children, both of whom I carried

>inside me every day for eight-nine months, actually did exhibit

>full-blown BPD or whatever when they get older. I don't think I

>could go NC with them. Then again, I can't bring myself to go

>NC with nada (for the some biological body bond reason?). But I

>don't necessarily think I'd feel differently even if they were

>adopted children because I'm the type who gets extremely

>attached to people (and animals) very easily.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Alice,

I think that if one of your children turns out to have BPD

you'll recognize it and hopefully get treatment started at a

young enough age for it to do some good. BPD is not totally

untreatable even though adults with BPD almost all refuse to

have anything to do with getting treatment. You're right about

three-year-old behaviors being nada-like. Being around toddlers

really emphasizes just how much like a small child our nadas can

be. Fortunately your three-year-old will most likely grow out of

those behaviors relatively soon.

I don't think most parents would feel differently about children

adopted at a young age versus biological children. Either way

they should be loved and there should be a bond. If your child

turns out to be so mentally ill and toxic that you can't safely

have contact with them, it is going to be a hard choice either

way.

At 10:03 AM 04/28/2012 Alice Spiedon wrote:

>I can't help wondering if the mother would have felt the same

>way if they had been her biological children. I'm just asking

>because my youngest girl reminds me a lot of nada

>sometimes (and she's just over one), and my three-year-old

>displays the behaviors too (but nada acts like a

>three-year-old, so these may just be perfectly normal

>behaviors). I'm not too worried about them yet, but it's always

>in the back of my mind ...

>

>I wonder what I would do if my children, both of whom I carried

>inside me every day for eight-nine months, actually did exhibit

>full-blown BPD or whatever when they get older. I don't think I

>could go NC with them. Then again, I can't bring myself to go

>NC with nada (for the some biological body bond reason?). But I

>don't necessarily think I'd feel differently even if they were

>adopted children because I'm the type who gets extremely

>attached to people (and animals) very easily.

--

Katrina