Re: The idea that we signed up for this

[Guest guest]

thank you!

Sent from my mobile device.

> I don't know. So many horrible, horrible things happen to so many people that

this sort of thinking becomes just another way to blame them for it, just like

the political persuasion that spawns lines like, " If you're poor it's your own

fault, " and " Take a bath and get a job, " and " The laboring classes need to get

themselves into line, behave themselves, and WORK! instead of whining all the

time. " (A line I actually saw posted under a news article this week.)

>

> Authors of this ilk are the very same people who espouse the idea that how you

feel controls everything you have experienced and will experience, and if you

don't like what you are experiencing or things aren't going well for you, it's

because you aren't believing right or aren't thinking right or haven't gotten

yourself thankful enough or feeling good enough yet.

>

> After my life experiences I have come to realize that these philosophies are,

truly, (warning: strong expletive approaching) a L-O-A-D * O-F * S-H-I-T. I used

to own many books by Dyer, as well as Byron , Conversations with God, etc.

After the last six years I have experienced, I wanted to burn them or at least

toss them into the dumpster where they belong. But I needed money, so I sold

them at a yard sale instead.

>

> These people have gotten RICH off these books.

>

> Doesn't make anything in them the truth.

>

> --

>

>

[Guest guest]

thank you!

Sent from my mobile device.

> I don't know. So many horrible, horrible things happen to so many people that

this sort of thinking becomes just another way to blame them for it, just like

the political persuasion that spawns lines like, " If you're poor it's your own

fault, " and " Take a bath and get a job, " and " The laboring classes need to get

themselves into line, behave themselves, and WORK! instead of whining all the

time. " (A line I actually saw posted under a news article this week.)

>

> Authors of this ilk are the very same people who espouse the idea that how you

feel controls everything you have experienced and will experience, and if you

don't like what you are experiencing or things aren't going well for you, it's

because you aren't believing right or aren't thinking right or haven't gotten

yourself thankful enough or feeling good enough yet.

>

> After my life experiences I have come to realize that these philosophies are,

truly, (warning: strong expletive approaching) a L-O-A-D * O-F * S-H-I-T. I used

to own many books by Dyer, as well as Byron , Conversations with God, etc.

After the last six years I have experienced, I wanted to burn them or at least

toss them into the dumpster where they belong. But I needed money, so I sold

them at a yard sale instead.

>

> These people have gotten RICH off these books.

>

> Doesn't make anything in them the truth.

>

> --

>

>

[Guest guest]

thank you!

Sent from my mobile device.

> I don't know. So many horrible, horrible things happen to so many people that

this sort of thinking becomes just another way to blame them for it, just like

the political persuasion that spawns lines like, " If you're poor it's your own

fault, " and " Take a bath and get a job, " and " The laboring classes need to get

themselves into line, behave themselves, and WORK! instead of whining all the

time. " (A line I actually saw posted under a news article this week.)

>

> Authors of this ilk are the very same people who espouse the idea that how you

feel controls everything you have experienced and will experience, and if you

don't like what you are experiencing or things aren't going well for you, it's

because you aren't believing right or aren't thinking right or haven't gotten

yourself thankful enough or feeling good enough yet.

>

> After my life experiences I have come to realize that these philosophies are,

truly, (warning: strong expletive approaching) a L-O-A-D * O-F * S-H-I-T. I used

to own many books by Dyer, as well as Byron , Conversations with God, etc.

After the last six years I have experienced, I wanted to burn them or at least

toss them into the dumpster where they belong. But I needed money, so I sold

them at a yard sale instead.

>

> These people have gotten RICH off these books.

>

> Doesn't make anything in them the truth.

>

> --

>

>

[Guest guest]

Writing that post made me cry for remembering a " mother " . I get triggered a lot

and it's okay. It's good to share ideas. In my mind I put this in the " blame the

victim " pile. I think it in a way absolves other people of their guilt and fear.

As in, she chose it and I didn't so there's something right with me and wrong

with her so I'm safe phew!

Sent from my mobile device.

> Millicent, I'm so sorry this was triggering for you. I was afraid it might be

for some people. I can see how it would feel that way, especially if TWO sides

of your family have offered that up to you. I wasn't offering this as a way to

dismiss anyone's pain obviously. We are all in the same boat here. Fascinating

about remembering your past lives! I've had a reading about that too, and it was

interesting.

>

> Deanna

>

>

> >

> > Both sides of my narcissistic family have offered me this tidbit of

> > " wisdom " . First of all it's just a thought and not at all a fact and it has

> > been presented to me as such by people trying to dismiss my pain. I do

> > believe I remember past lives and other mothers I had. I remember two of

> > them and while they were flawed, they loved me and if I think about them I

> > miss them very much and I loved them intensely. This mother in this life is

> > a monster. Anyway, if someone gets something out of this, great. But having

> > parents who were my worst enemies, wow, what a thing to sign up for. I

> > deserved way better. This idea triggers me through the effing roof. Being a

> > baby in the hands of a psychopathic woman, can there be any greater hell?

> > My answer is no.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Writing that post made me cry for remembering a " mother " . I get triggered a lot

and it's okay. It's good to share ideas. In my mind I put this in the " blame the

victim " pile. I think it in a way absolves other people of their guilt and fear.

As in, she chose it and I didn't so there's something right with me and wrong

with her so I'm safe phew!

Sent from my mobile device.

> Millicent, I'm so sorry this was triggering for you. I was afraid it might be

for some people. I can see how it would feel that way, especially if TWO sides

of your family have offered that up to you. I wasn't offering this as a way to

dismiss anyone's pain obviously. We are all in the same boat here. Fascinating

about remembering your past lives! I've had a reading about that too, and it was

interesting.

>

> Deanna

>

>

> >

> > Both sides of my narcissistic family have offered me this tidbit of

> > " wisdom " . First of all it's just a thought and not at all a fact and it has

> > been presented to me as such by people trying to dismiss my pain. I do

> > believe I remember past lives and other mothers I had. I remember two of

> > them and while they were flawed, they loved me and if I think about them I

> > miss them very much and I loved them intensely. This mother in this life is

> > a monster. Anyway, if someone gets something out of this, great. But having

> > parents who were my worst enemies, wow, what a thing to sign up for. I

> > deserved way better. This idea triggers me through the effing roof. Being a

> > baby in the hands of a psychopathic woman, can there be any greater hell?

> > My answer is no.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I totally understand how it could be seen that way...as blaming the victim.

>

> > Millicent, I'm so sorry this was triggering for you. I was afraid it might

be for some people. I can see how it would feel that way, especially if TWO

sides of your family have offered that up to you. I wasn't offering this as a

way to dismiss anyone's pain obviously. We are all in the same boat here.

Fascinating about remembering your past lives! I've had a reading about that

too, and it was interesting.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

[Guest guest]

I totally understand how it could be seen that way...as blaming the victim.

>

> > Millicent, I'm so sorry this was triggering for you. I was afraid it might

be for some people. I can see how it would feel that way, especially if TWO

sides of your family have offered that up to you. I wasn't offering this as a

way to dismiss anyone's pain obviously. We are all in the same boat here.

Fascinating about remembering your past lives! I've had a reading about that

too, and it was interesting.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

[Guest guest]

I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to accept

the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example of

" just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But

it blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me a

psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless in

the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives you

more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is your

fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately

opens the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us so

often. It's a lot easier.

Ashana

[Guest guest]

I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to accept

the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example of

" just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But

it blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me a

psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless in

the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives you

more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is your

fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately

opens the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us so

often. It's a lot easier.

Ashana

[Guest guest]

I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to accept

the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example of

" just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But

it blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me a

psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless in

the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives you

more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is your

fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately

opens the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us so

often. It's a lot easier.

Ashana

[Guest guest]

This is great!

Sent from my mobile device.

> I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to accept

the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example of

" just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But it

blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

>

> ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me a

psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

>

> It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless in

the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives you

more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

>

> The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately opens

the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

>

> I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

>

> Ashana

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is great!

Sent from my mobile device.

> I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to accept

the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example of

" just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But it

blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

>

> ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me a

psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

>

> It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless in

the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives you

more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

>

> The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately opens

the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

>

> I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

>

> Ashana

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree.

>

> > I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to

accept the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example

of " just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But it

blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

> >

> > ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me

a psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

> >

> > It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless

in the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives

you more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

> >

> > The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately opens

the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

> >

> > I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

> >

> > Ashana

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree.

>

> > I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to

accept the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example

of " just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But it

blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

> >

> > ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me

a psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

> >

> > It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless

in the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives

you more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

> >

> > The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately opens

the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

> >

> > I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

> >

> > Ashana

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree.

>

> > I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to

accept the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example

of " just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But it

blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

> >

> > ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me

a psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

> >

> > It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless

in the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives

you more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

> >

> > The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately opens

the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

> >

> > I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

> >

> > Ashana

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ashana, This is exactly what I mean when I say that Cluster Bs inflict 'useless'

suffering that no Just deity (or spirit about to be reincarnated) would

intentionally inflict. Thanks for putting it so eloquently!!

>

> I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to accept

the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example of

" just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But

it blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

>

> ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me a

psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

>

> It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless in

the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives you

more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

>

> The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately

opens the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

>

> I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

>

> Ashana

>

[Guest guest]

Ashana, This is exactly what I mean when I say that Cluster Bs inflict 'useless'

suffering that no Just deity (or spirit about to be reincarnated) would

intentionally inflict. Thanks for putting it so eloquently!!

>

> I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to accept

the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example of

" just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But

it blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

>

> ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me a

psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

>

> It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless in

the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives you

more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

>

> The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately

opens the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

>

> I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

>

> Ashana

>

[Guest guest]

Ashana, This is exactly what I mean when I say that Cluster Bs inflict 'useless'

suffering that no Just deity (or spirit about to be reincarnated) would

intentionally inflict. Thanks for putting it so eloquently!!

>

> I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to accept

the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an example of

" just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair (when it

isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But

it blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

>

> ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me a

psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

>

> It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless in

the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives you

more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

>

> The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately

opens the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

>

> I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

>

> Ashana

>

[Guest guest]

I just had to respond to this post.

" Remember, YOU picked me. " This is one of my nada's favorite one liners...and

she learned it from reading those darn Wayne Dyer books. This is usually said a

few days after she's really gone flying off the handle and thinks, but usually

told by someone, that " maybe " she was a bit loud or " maybe " overreacted a teensy

tiny bit. Of course it's still my fault she did it though. Ohhhhh, what I

would love to do to those books...

No, I don't think ANYONE would pick these people for parents. I know I surely

DIDN'T. There's no way! I didn't want all the torture and horrendous things I

went thru to happen. No one should have to endure that kind of wrath...the

wrath of a nada! (and her nada too, in my case.)

Not only that, it's an insult to my intelligence, my nature, and my heart to

think I had a choice in the matter. If I'm innately a bright, loving, caring

person Now, I must have been a bright, loving, caring being-to-be Then. That

being so, any bright, loving, caring person/being-to-be wouldn't knowingly put

themselves in a bad situation for a moment, let alone their entire lives, but

according to Dyer they would. I ask you, how in the realm of possibility does

that make sense?

If you had wonderful parents and a good upbringing, " U picked me " is a great

line. But, you have to think about the antithesis of this and, really, would

anyone want terrible, harmful, etc, etc parent(s) who put them through the

ringer every day of their lives? If so, wouldn't that person be called a

sadomasochist?

I didn't have a choice then, but I do have a choice NOW. I'm a KO, and that's

DEFINITELY NOT by choice.

> >

> > I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to

accept the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an

example of " just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair

(when it isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But

it blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

> >

> > ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me

a psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

> >

> > It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless

in the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives

you more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

> >

> > The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately

opens the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

> >

> > I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

> >

> > Ashana

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I just had to respond to this post.

" Remember, YOU picked me. " This is one of my nada's favorite one liners...and

she learned it from reading those darn Wayne Dyer books. This is usually said a

few days after she's really gone flying off the handle and thinks, but usually

told by someone, that " maybe " she was a bit loud or " maybe " overreacted a teensy

tiny bit. Of course it's still my fault she did it though. Ohhhhh, what I

would love to do to those books...

No, I don't think ANYONE would pick these people for parents. I know I surely

DIDN'T. There's no way! I didn't want all the torture and horrendous things I

went thru to happen. No one should have to endure that kind of wrath...the

wrath of a nada! (and her nada too, in my case.)

Not only that, it's an insult to my intelligence, my nature, and my heart to

think I had a choice in the matter. If I'm innately a bright, loving, caring

person Now, I must have been a bright, loving, caring being-to-be Then. That

being so, any bright, loving, caring person/being-to-be wouldn't knowingly put

themselves in a bad situation for a moment, let alone their entire lives, but

according to Dyer they would. I ask you, how in the realm of possibility does

that make sense?

If you had wonderful parents and a good upbringing, " U picked me " is a great

line. But, you have to think about the antithesis of this and, really, would

anyone want terrible, harmful, etc, etc parent(s) who put them through the

ringer every day of their lives? If so, wouldn't that person be called a

sadomasochist?

I didn't have a choice then, but I do have a choice NOW. I'm a KO, and that's

DEFINITELY NOT by choice.

> >

> > I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to

accept the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an

example of " just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair

(when it isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But

it blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

> >

> > ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me

a psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

> >

> > It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless

in the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives

you more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

> >

> > The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately

opens the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

> >

> > I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

> >

> > Ashana

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I just had to respond to this post.

" Remember, YOU picked me. " This is one of my nada's favorite one liners...and

she learned it from reading those darn Wayne Dyer books. This is usually said a

few days after she's really gone flying off the handle and thinks, but usually

told by someone, that " maybe " she was a bit loud or " maybe " overreacted a teensy

tiny bit. Of course it's still my fault she did it though. Ohhhhh, what I

would love to do to those books...

No, I don't think ANYONE would pick these people for parents. I know I surely

DIDN'T. There's no way! I didn't want all the torture and horrendous things I

went thru to happen. No one should have to endure that kind of wrath...the

wrath of a nada! (and her nada too, in my case.)

Not only that, it's an insult to my intelligence, my nature, and my heart to

think I had a choice in the matter. If I'm innately a bright, loving, caring

person Now, I must have been a bright, loving, caring being-to-be Then. That

being so, any bright, loving, caring person/being-to-be wouldn't knowingly put

themselves in a bad situation for a moment, let alone their entire lives, but

according to Dyer they would. I ask you, how in the realm of possibility does

that make sense?

If you had wonderful parents and a good upbringing, " U picked me " is a great

line. But, you have to think about the antithesis of this and, really, would

anyone want terrible, harmful, etc, etc parent(s) who put them through the

ringer every day of their lives? If so, wouldn't that person be called a

sadomasochist?

I didn't have a choice then, but I do have a choice NOW. I'm a KO, and that's

DEFINITELY NOT by choice.

> >

> > I thought this way, or tried to think this way, when I was less able to

accept the extent of my powerlessness as a child. It seems to me like an

example of " just world " thinking, in which the world is imagined as being fair

(when it isn't). I think it can make the world seem less frightening and more

predictable. It also relieves people who haven't been victimized of the

obligation to feel guilty for doing nothing to help others who have been. But

it blames the victim, displaces responsibility away from the perpetrator, and

excuses what they have done as an opportunity for the victim to " build

character. "

> >

> > ly, abuse from pd perpetrators has not built my character, but given me

a psychological disease the symptoms of which prevent me from contributing to

society as much as I might otherwise have to offer. I am not bitter about this,

but I feel those are simply the facts. I'd get a lot more done if I didn't have

to deal with the results of trauma. I'd be a better partner, a better teacher,

and a better friend if I didn't need to spend so much time just trying to keep

my head on straight.

> >

> > It was much more freeing to me to simply accept that I have been powerless

in the past in certain situations. Seeing things as they are ultimately gives

you more choices and makes you more competent to solve problems. I don't think

believing you signed up to be badly parented is empowering in the long-run

because it's a lie. Good parenting is the best preparation for being a

contributing member of society--bad parenting is not a good preparation for

anything except how to be a bad parent.

> >

> > The problem with accepting that none of what happened to you as a child is

your fault is that it means all of the pain you experienced then is real and

justified. This means you have to feel it and deal with it. As long as I

believed I asked for or deserved a pd parent who was unable to nurture or care

for me, I could continue to distance myself from my pain, and I think that's why

so many of those books sell. Understanding I am worthy of love immediately

opens the door to the pain of not having had it when I needed it the most.

> >

> > I think that's why so many of those books sell, and why people tell it to us

so often. It's a lot easier.

> >

> > Ashana

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think its a load of horse pucky! As is most of the stuff Dyer peddles.

It's very easy for people who had the tools at age 20 to know where they were

going in life, got themselves an education, moved themselves up the social

network to a level of prominence they then used to tell other people how they

should think and feel. Seriously, good for them. But they didn't walk in *my*

shoes.

I, on the other hand, spent my first 30 years suppressing my emotional and

physical needs because I had no safe place to ask for those needs to be met.

Almost another 20 years trying to relearn to engage with people, to trust people

and myself. So instead, I have a life *half* lived. My goal for the next 30

years is to be happy and not bitter about drawing this short straw.

And no, I don't think my nada 'chose' the life she wanted to be in either--full

of fear and rage, panic and misery, struggling to be on top of her family as if

they were mortal enemies. Yes, Dyer and the rest with this theory have their

heads far up their own butt, IMHO.

>

> Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've heard

before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we were born,

we decided what family we would be born into and what experience we would have.

This would have all been in order to learn to deal with adversity, to help our

souls make spiritual progress.

>

> Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it that

way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the victim role.

>

> I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out there.

I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to look at

things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine that we made

this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and thrive despite the

adversity.

>

> Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

I think its a load of horse pucky! As is most of the stuff Dyer peddles.

It's very easy for people who had the tools at age 20 to know where they were

going in life, got themselves an education, moved themselves up the social

network to a level of prominence they then used to tell other people how they

should think and feel. Seriously, good for them. But they didn't walk in *my*

shoes.

I, on the other hand, spent my first 30 years suppressing my emotional and

physical needs because I had no safe place to ask for those needs to be met.

Almost another 20 years trying to relearn to engage with people, to trust people

and myself. So instead, I have a life *half* lived. My goal for the next 30

years is to be happy and not bitter about drawing this short straw.

And no, I don't think my nada 'chose' the life she wanted to be in either--full

of fear and rage, panic and misery, struggling to be on top of her family as if

they were mortal enemies. Yes, Dyer and the rest with this theory have their

heads far up their own butt, IMHO.

>

> Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've heard

before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we were born,

we decided what family we would be born into and what experience we would have.

This would have all been in order to learn to deal with adversity, to help our

souls make spiritual progress.

>

> Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it that

way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the victim role.

>

> I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out there.

I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to look at

things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine that we made

this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and thrive despite the

adversity.

>

> Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

I think its a load of horse pucky! As is most of the stuff Dyer peddles.

It's very easy for people who had the tools at age 20 to know where they were

going in life, got themselves an education, moved themselves up the social

network to a level of prominence they then used to tell other people how they

should think and feel. Seriously, good for them. But they didn't walk in *my*

shoes.

I, on the other hand, spent my first 30 years suppressing my emotional and

physical needs because I had no safe place to ask for those needs to be met.

Almost another 20 years trying to relearn to engage with people, to trust people

and myself. So instead, I have a life *half* lived. My goal for the next 30

years is to be happy and not bitter about drawing this short straw.

And no, I don't think my nada 'chose' the life she wanted to be in either--full

of fear and rage, panic and misery, struggling to be on top of her family as if

they were mortal enemies. Yes, Dyer and the rest with this theory have their

heads far up their own butt, IMHO.

>

> Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've heard

before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we were born,

we decided what family we would be born into and what experience we would have.

This would have all been in order to learn to deal with adversity, to help our

souls make spiritual progress.

>

> Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it that

way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the victim role.

>

> I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out there.

I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to look at

things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine that we made

this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and thrive despite the

adversity.

>

> Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

Additionally, I believe we need to do or use whatever works best for us.

Period.

From my perspective, just because we are KO's doesn't make us victims. I don't

think of myself as a victim. My parental units have issues and are more

challenging than a lot of others. Given that my health is now in serious

jeopardy bc of their doings AND how I handled them, it's even more important for

me to adjust my handling of their behavior now... bc they're certainly not going

to change. Victims don't do that.

We're looking for resolve; seeking out a change of our situation for the better.

In my opinion, being on here proves we are not victims. And, we didn't sign up

for this.

>

> Someone suggested this to me the other day, and it's something I've heard

before; Wayne Dyer has talked about it. It's the idea that before we were born,

we decided what family we would be born into and what experience we would have.

This would have all been in order to learn to deal with adversity, to help our

souls make spiritual progress.

>

> Wayne Dyer had said that *even if it's not true,* deciding to look at it that

way offers us a perspective shift, one which moves us out of the victim role.

>

> I hope nobody takes offense at this idea. I'm just throwing it out there.

I'm not saying I believe it, but it does offer a different way to look at

things. If you think about it, it feels more empowering to imagine that we made

this choice because we wanted the opportunity to survive and thrive despite the

adversity.

>

> Have any of you ever thought about that idea? What do you think of it?

>

> Deanna

>