What did I ever do to her?

[Guest guest]

Last night, there was a big hail storm coming through our area, so nada thought

she had to call and tell me all about it and make sure that I knew not to leave

DD1 upstairs all by herself. I was in the middle of trying to finish fixing

dinner so that we could have a chance of eating before the emergency situation

(which actually never even happened) began. So I was responding to her in

one-word statements. " Yeah. " " Uh-huh. " " Okay. " By the end of the conversation,

she was clicking off in a huff, and I was left standing there, wondering, " What

did I do? "

I actually verbalized this question, and DH said, " You were born to her. "

Now, DH is not a particularly sensitive person. He is sympathetic, just not very

sensitive or careful with his words ... And that statement, while it cut me

slightly to hear it, did actually open a whole new level of understanding for

me. My very existence on this planet is a threat to her. It's a source of

anxiety, stress, and depression - just because I AM. 

I know a lot of you here have already reached this realization (or something

similar) and have worked your way through it. I'm just starting out (rather,

returning to " starting out " ), and this was a major light bulb moment for me. I'm

just not sure of what to do with it now ... 

[Guest guest]

I think that was a really insightful observation and answer to your question,

on your husband's part: " You were born to her " means you were born into a

dysfunctional relationship with someone who had little if any capacity for

empathy, and little if any ability to view you as an individual person separate

from herself, with your own feelings and needs and dreams.

I wish I could remember where I read this, but somewhere I read that borderline

pd is a " dysfunction of intimacy. " The more intimate the relationship with the

bpd person, the more dysfunctional the relationship is.

This makes sense to me, in my own situation when my mother was alive. My nada

was perceived as charming and adorable by neighbors, acquaintances, her

co-workers, and those outside her immediate family. Those of us who were the

most intimately connected to my nada were treated the worst.

My nada truly believed that she was entitled do anything to us she felt like

doing, but we " had to " love her anyway. She expressed this belief to me by

telling me (repeatedly) that her own father had a terrifying temper and used to

beat her often, but she loved him deeply anyway.

Now, this is a key point: my own experiences and observations of my grandfather,

nada's father over *decades* of my life indicated to me that grandpa did NOT

have a terrible temper and was NOT a violent, abusive person, even when provoked

by rambunctious grandkids. My mother's two sisters do not corroborate my nada's

version of their childhood, and were actually rather shocked and bewildered when

my Sister finally shared with them what our nada had been feeding us our whole

lives as the tragic story of their childhood, starring nada as the neglected,

battered scapegoat and her older sister as the favorite, golden child. (And

granny wasn't negligent, cold or rejecting, and didn't play favorites with any

of us grandkids, either.)

My nada's perception of reality was badly skewed. She had the " transient "

delusions and paranoia trait of bpd, pretty much all the time.

So, anyway, yes, its a very important and disorienting paradigm shift in our

thinking when we realize that nada is not interacting with us in the same plane

of reality that we are operating in. Nada is in nada-reality, her own reality,

and its skewed and negative and can be highly toxic and damaging to us when we

are small and vulnerable and *depend* on our nada to interpret the world for us

and tell us who we are.

So, as Doug says, be gentle with yourself, and give yourself time to absorb this

new realization. Coming to terms with all this bpd stuff is disorienting and

can feel like a punch in the stomach.

-Annie

>

> Last night, there was a big hail storm coming through our area, so nada

thought she had to call and tell me all about it and make sure that I knew not

to leave DD1 upstairs all by herself. I was in the middle of trying to finish

fixing dinner so that we could have a chance of eating before the emergency

situation (which actually never even happened) began. So I was responding to her

in one-word statements. " Yeah. " " Uh-huh. " " Okay. " By the end of the

conversation, she was clicking off in a huff, and I was left standing there,

wondering, " What did I do? "

>

> I actually verbalized this question, and DH said, " You were born to her. "

>

> Now, DH is not a particularly sensitive person. He is sympathetic, just not

very sensitive or careful with his words ... And that statement, while it cut me

slightly to hear it, did actually open a whole new level of understanding for

me. My very existence on this planet is a threat to her. It's a source of

anxiety, stress, and depression - just because I AM. 

>

> I know a lot of you here have already reached this realization (or something

similar) and have worked your way through it. I'm just starting out (rather,

returning to " starting out " ), and this was a major light bulb moment for me. I'm

just not sure of what to do with it now ... 

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think that was a really insightful observation and answer to your question,

on your husband's part: " You were born to her " means you were born into a

dysfunctional relationship with someone who had little if any capacity for

empathy, and little if any ability to view you as an individual person separate

from herself, with your own feelings and needs and dreams.

I wish I could remember where I read this, but somewhere I read that borderline

pd is a " dysfunction of intimacy. " The more intimate the relationship with the

bpd person, the more dysfunctional the relationship is.

This makes sense to me, in my own situation when my mother was alive. My nada

was perceived as charming and adorable by neighbors, acquaintances, her

co-workers, and those outside her immediate family. Those of us who were the

most intimately connected to my nada were treated the worst.

My nada truly believed that she was entitled do anything to us she felt like

doing, but we " had to " love her anyway. She expressed this belief to me by

telling me (repeatedly) that her own father had a terrifying temper and used to

beat her often, but she loved him deeply anyway.

Now, this is a key point: my own experiences and observations of my grandfather,

nada's father over *decades* of my life indicated to me that grandpa did NOT

have a terrible temper and was NOT a violent, abusive person, even when provoked

by rambunctious grandkids. My mother's two sisters do not corroborate my nada's

version of their childhood, and were actually rather shocked and bewildered when

my Sister finally shared with them what our nada had been feeding us our whole

lives as the tragic story of their childhood, starring nada as the neglected,

battered scapegoat and her older sister as the favorite, golden child. (And

granny wasn't negligent, cold or rejecting, and didn't play favorites with any

of us grandkids, either.)

My nada's perception of reality was badly skewed. She had the " transient "

delusions and paranoia trait of bpd, pretty much all the time.

So, anyway, yes, its a very important and disorienting paradigm shift in our

thinking when we realize that nada is not interacting with us in the same plane

of reality that we are operating in. Nada is in nada-reality, her own reality,

and its skewed and negative and can be highly toxic and damaging to us when we

are small and vulnerable and *depend* on our nada to interpret the world for us

and tell us who we are.

So, as Doug says, be gentle with yourself, and give yourself time to absorb this

new realization. Coming to terms with all this bpd stuff is disorienting and

can feel like a punch in the stomach.

-Annie

>

> Last night, there was a big hail storm coming through our area, so nada

thought she had to call and tell me all about it and make sure that I knew not

to leave DD1 upstairs all by herself. I was in the middle of trying to finish

fixing dinner so that we could have a chance of eating before the emergency

situation (which actually never even happened) began. So I was responding to her

in one-word statements. " Yeah. " " Uh-huh. " " Okay. " By the end of the

conversation, she was clicking off in a huff, and I was left standing there,

wondering, " What did I do? "

>

> I actually verbalized this question, and DH said, " You were born to her. "

>

> Now, DH is not a particularly sensitive person. He is sympathetic, just not

very sensitive or careful with his words ... And that statement, while it cut me

slightly to hear it, did actually open a whole new level of understanding for

me. My very existence on this planet is a threat to her. It's a source of

anxiety, stress, and depression - just because I AM. 

>

> I know a lot of you here have already reached this realization (or something

similar) and have worked your way through it. I'm just starting out (rather,

returning to " starting out " ), and this was a major light bulb moment for me. I'm

just not sure of what to do with it now ... 

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm still confused by being perceived as a threat to my nada - Alice, the

way you said that really resonates with me. I still don't get that part of

things. A lot of my work with my T has really helped me though, my T said

that many many many of the conversations with my mother that hurt me were

meant to destroy me as a person and damage my identity. For example, when

she called me a slut when I was 15 (um, can a totally socially backwards 15

year old that has never held hands with a boy really be a slut?) My T said

Nada knew perfectly well that I wasn't a slut. She just wanted to destroy

me.

But why???? Is it just a form of projection - she hated herself so much

that she wanted to hurt me? My T says there are things we can never

understand and a mother wanting to destroy her daughter is just one of

those illogical things. I mean, sometimes I get in a shitty mood and I feel

like lashing out - but I am aware of it and I do things to improve my mood,

or I apologize etc etc etc. I can only imagine one of those moments times a

million billion.

> **

>

>

> I think that answer really hits the nail on the head. It doesn't

> matter what we do, how we do it, or how hard we try to do what

> our nadas/fadas want. The real problem is that we're their

> children and no child could ever possibly be what they want at

> any age. My nada wanted her daughters to echo all her opinions

> and tastes and to be her slaves. We weren't supposed to be

> people ourselves, just extensions of her. We didn't want to be

> her slaves and we don't have the same tastes in clothing,

> jewelry, or much of anything else, nor do we share her opinions

> on many things. That makes us unacceptable and nothing we do

> could possibly fix that. If we had totally different

> personalities we'd still be unacceptable for the same reason.

> The fact that there is nothing personal about it is probably a

> big part of why I tolerate having contact with her. I don't

> think I could handle it if I thought she really disliked us so

> much as individuals rather than as placeholders with the label

> " daughter " .

>

>

> At 08:10 AM 04/29/2012 Alice Spiedon wrote:

> >Last night, there was a big hail storm coming through our area,

> >so nada thought she had to call and tell me all about it and

> >make sure that I knew not to leave DD1 upstairs all by herself.

> >I was in the middle of trying to finish fixing dinner so that

> >we could have a chance of eating before the emergency situation

> >(which actually never even happened) began. So I was responding

> >to her in one-word statements. " Yeah. " " Uh-huh. " " Okay. " By the

> >end of the conversation, she was clicking off in a huff, and I

> >was left standing there, wondering, " What did I do? "

> >

> >I actually verbalized this question, and DH said, " You were

> >born to her. "

> >

> >Now, DH is not a particularly sensitive person. He is

> >sympathetic, just not very sensitive or careful with his words

> >... And that statement, while it cut me slightly to hear it,

> >did actually open a whole new level of understanding for me. My

> >very existence on this planet is a threat to her. It's a source

> >of anxiety, stress, and depression - just because I AM.

> >

> >I know a lot of you here have already reached this realization

> >(or something similar) and have worked your way through it. I'm

> >just starting out (rather, returning to " starting out " ), and

> >this was a major light bulb moment for me. I'm just not sure of

> >what to do with it now ...

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think it's kind of along the lines of a bully....bullies feel badly about

themselves, so they find some who they perceive as weaker, and try to make them

feel worse than they do so they can feel good about themselves.  However, that

kind of behavior is like taking a drug.   The first hit on the drug lasts a

while, and then each subsequent hit needs more and more of the drug to get the

same feeling as the very first hit.  Maybe the BPD's in our lives do the same

thing....to get that feeling of " feeling good " , they need to keep up the

" bullying " behavior.  I have had a lot of time to think about this, and this is

just my perception of the whole thing.  Whether it's right or not, I really

don't know.

Janet

 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own

understanding.

 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

Proverbs 3:5-8

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:51 PM

Subject: Re: What did I ever do to her?

I'm still confused by being perceived as a threat to my nada - Alice, the

way you said that really resonates with me. I still don't get that part of

things. A lot of my work with my T has really helped me though, my T said

that many many many of the conversations with my mother that hurt me were

meant to destroy me as a person and damage my identity. For example, when

she called me a slut when I was 15 (um, can a totally socially backwards 15

year old that has never held hands with a boy really be a slut?) My T said

Nada knew perfectly well that I wasn't a slut. She just wanted to destroy

me.

But why???? Is it just a form of projection - she hated herself so much

that she wanted to hurt me? My T says there are things we can never

understand and a mother wanting to destroy her daughter is just one of

those illogical things. I mean, sometimes I get in a shitty mood and I feel

like lashing out - but I am aware of it and I do things to improve my mood,

or I apologize etc etc etc. I can only imagine one of those moments times a

million billion.

> **

>

>

> I think that answer really hits the nail on the head. It doesn't

> matter what we do, how we do it, or how hard we try to do what

> our nadas/fadas want. The real problem is that we're their

> children and no child could ever possibly be what they want at

> any age. My nada wanted her daughters to echo all her opinions

> and tastes and to be her slaves. We weren't supposed to be

> people ourselves, just extensions of her. We didn't want to be

> her slaves and we don't have the same tastes in clothing,

> jewelry, or much of anything else, nor do we share her opinions

> on many things. That makes us unacceptable and nothing we do

> could possibly fix that. If we had totally different

> personalities we'd still be unacceptable for the same reason.

> The fact that there is nothing personal about it is probably a

> big part of why I tolerate having contact with her. I don't

> think I could handle it if I thought she really disliked us so

> much as individuals rather than as placeholders with the label

> " daughter " .

>

>

> At 08:10 AM 04/29/2012 Alice Spiedon wrote:

> >Last night, there was a big hail storm coming through our area,

> >so nada thought she had to call and tell me all about it and

> >make sure that I knew not to leave DD1 upstairs all by herself.

> >I was in the middle of trying to finish fixing dinner so that

> >we could have a chance of eating before the emergency situation

> >(which actually never even happened) began. So I was responding

> >to her in one-word statements. " Yeah. " " Uh-huh. " " Okay. " By the

> >end of the conversation, she was clicking off in a huff, and I

> >was left standing there, wondering, " What did I do? "

> >

> >I actually verbalized this question, and DH said, " You were

> >born to her. "

> >

> >Now, DH is not a particularly sensitive person. He is

> >sympathetic, just not very sensitive or careful with his words

> >... And that statement, while it cut me slightly to hear it,

> >did actually open a whole new level of understanding for me. My

> >very existence on this planet is a threat to her. It's a source

> >of anxiety, stress, and depression - just because I AM.

> >

> >I know a lot of you here have already reached this realization

> >(or something similar) and have worked your way through it. I'm

> >just starting out (rather, returning to " starting out " ), and

> >this was a major light bulb moment for me. I'm just not sure of

> >what to do with it now ...

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

> 

>