Coming out, speaking out...is never too late.

[Guest guest]

I wrote something much more emotional prior to this and thanks to the dinner

call, I had time to re-evaluate it and write this more coherent intro. Here goes

(sorry, a tad verbose today).

My parents divorced when I was 6, I was given the choice to stay with the parent

of my preference. My Mother…in a nut shell is an unhappy obsessive compulsive

(cleans everything) perfectionist and I felt so cold when I was with her. She

was a cold and loveless woman -- now I realize like my Dad she carried her own

childhood burden which made her sad, angry, hateful and bitter person. They both

ended up using love as a tool, and I was always at the end of that tool. Or

wait, was I the tool – never mind that!

I got side tracked, ok – after a dramatic standoff; I chose to live with my Dad.

We left my Mom and half-brother behind (or so I thought) and moved into our own

apartment. Actually, it was a basement located in an office building. Not the

best place to raise a kid, but oh well.

I had time to evaluate it all and realize why I went with my Dad. My Dad would

leave for days and I'd stay by myself, oh the relief, I treasured those moments!

My tyrant Mom on the other hand would not let me even breath unless I did it her

way 24/7 and still she would tell me how much better she is and always will be.

So, yes, I think I would pick my Dad this life or the next. It seemed like the

only place my soul could breath was with my unstable but loving Dad. Simply

because he would be gone for days and I would find peace.

My Dad is a warm, smiley, talkative person. He is also very smart, charming,

intelligent and yes manipulative. He can give you the shirt off his back (I have

literally seen him do that) and write a book about how tremendously crappy

person you are in the same week. He meets people, loves them, gives them our

house keys yada yada and when crap hits the fan, we are blocking the doors,

changing the locks, moving and what not.

When my parent were married, we would take long drives and he would always stop

for each hitchhiker we saw – would take them all the way to their home, at our

discomfort. If an animal is hurt, he is there fighting for it, trying to save

it. He really has a great heart (a broken one, but still there is good in it). I

know this for sure, hence why standing up and calling him out will break his

heart further. I am the only one he has; (can you tell) I am so conflicted about

it all.

He brought people into our lives and two of them on different occasions molested

me, which went on for a while. I was 5 (ish) when it started. When I told this

to my Mom several years ago (in my late 30s), her comments were " say a prayer

that you did not have to endure worse. Like those poor girls who get raped by

their family members. " She said more and each one sounded similarly callous.

Yes, I am aware of the atrocities people suffer. I am lucky compared to them.

But unlucky compared to some. Why are we comparing anyhow?

Upon hearing the same thing, my Dad said, if he had to kill 2 people, it would

be those two, which made me feel a bit better, but then he added, it is your

Mother's fault. I was at work; she should have cared for you.

Back to square one. I expected them to be adults, parents and my role models. I

expected them to own up to their mistakes and say 3 words to me. " I am sorry " .

My Mom, to this day, says the same thing, " if I had to do it again, there would

be nothing I would change. It was my circumstance and people in it, not me. " My

Dad will utilize more empathy, so he will simply say, " I know I made mistakes, I

am not perfect, but I really tried. It was your….. " and blame it on everyone

else.

Today, I am a parent myself, married for 20 years and I am struggling to keep my

Dad out of my personality traits. Yes, I see him in me and it makes me sick.

That is actually how I discovered he was a BLP. I was trying to find out what

was going on with my anger issues and ran into BLP and immediately recognized my

Dad. I have tendencies, perhaps a learned behavior pattern and refuse to put my

4 year old through the same misery. It is time I took care of my " inner child "

and stood up for her…once and for all. I want to stop my Dad meddling, poking

and messing with me every so often with his crazy antics. I want to be able to

draw clearer lines, say no…NOOOOOOO to people when I want to, speak up when

something hurts me, not be so angry and easily bruised ALL the time, and darn

it, I just want to find peace, heal…and enjoy my little girl! Be a solid person.

Be someone she will want to lean on.

I know I cannot fix my Dad, I have tried for years. I just want to do something

neither he nor my Mom has been able to do. Break the chain…of abuse. (crap, here

comes the tears…)

I do not want to be abused anymore, nor do I want to hand the same lousy

inheritance to my daughter.

I am here to learn and share. Hope there is some room here for me, I do play

nicely I might add – though I do tend to bruise easily (when told to get over it

and shut up), but I will stay quiet and leave rather than act crazy like someone

I know

Sunshine to all.

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the Group, angry moon.

You must have a core of steel, to have survived childhood with two parents who

were so unqualified to parent in such different ways. I think that if I'd

been forced to make that choice I too would have chosen to live with my dad, who

was kind and loving, sort of a rescuer type, but rather distant and not

interested in the rigors of actual parenting. My dad was more like a visiting

uncle, a Mr. Fun Guy. Like yours, my nada was very domineering and

perfectionistic and nothing I did or said was right or good enough. That

description you gave of not feeling able to even breathe right in her presence

really resonates with me.

My own personal belief is that if you are aware that you have behaviors that are

bpd-like from having been raised by personality-disordered parents (we call

those " bpd flea " behaviors), your awareness and distress and determination to

change or better control these behaviors, are GOOD things indicative of a

healthy, normally-wired brain. Those qualities: the ability to perceive that

some behaviors are negative, counterproductive and harmful, the ability to feel

remorse, and the desire to change, all mean that you very likely do NOT have

personality disorder.

As you have pointed out, your parents don't seem to think they need to change,

and that is the key point of why those with bpd and other personality disorders

rarely if ever seek therapy. Instead they justify and rationalize and even feel

entitled to behave horribly, immaturely, selfishly, negligently and abusively;

such thinking is a hallmark trait of those with pds. " You made me do it. " " Its

not my fault " " Its just the way I am " , " You deserved it because you are bad. "

" You are the cause of all my problems. "

So, you ARE breaking the chain of abuse, and that is a good thing.

I hope you find much peace and healing here, its a good Group of fellow KOs

(adult children of pd parents) and we " get it. "

-Annie

>

> I wrote something much more emotional prior to this and thanks to the dinner

call, I had time to re-evaluate it and write this more coherent intro. Here goes

(sorry, a tad verbose today).

>

> My parents divorced when I was 6, I was given the choice to stay with the

parent of my preference. My Mother…in a nut shell is an unhappy obsessive

compulsive (cleans everything) perfectionist and I felt so cold when I was with

her. She was a cold and loveless woman -- now I realize like my Dad she carried

her own childhood burden which made her sad, angry, hateful and bitter person.

They both ended up using love as a tool, and I was always at the end of that

tool. Or wait, was I the tool – never mind that!

>

> I got side tracked, ok – after a dramatic standoff; I chose to live with my

Dad. We left my Mom and half-brother behind (or so I thought) and moved into our

own apartment. Actually, it was a basement located in an office building. Not

the best place to raise a kid, but oh well.

>

> I had time to evaluate it all and realize why I went with my Dad. My Dad would

leave for days and I'd stay by myself, oh the relief, I treasured those moments!

My tyrant Mom on the other hand would not let me even breath unless I did it her

way 24/7 and still she would tell me how much better she is and always will be.

So, yes, I think I would pick my Dad this life or the next. It seemed like the

only place my soul could breath was with my unstable but loving Dad. Simply

because he would be gone for days and I would find peace.

>

> My Dad is a warm, smiley, talkative person. He is also very smart, charming,

intelligent and yes manipulative. He can give you the shirt off his back (I have

literally seen him do that) and write a book about how tremendously crappy

person you are in the same week. He meets people, loves them, gives them our

house keys yada yada and when crap hits the fan, we are blocking the doors,

changing the locks, moving and what not.

>

> When my parent were married, we would take long drives and he would always

stop for each hitchhiker we saw – would take them all the way to their home, at

our discomfort. If an animal is hurt, he is there fighting for it, trying to

save it. He really has a great heart (a broken one, but still there is good in

it). I know this for sure, hence why standing up and calling him out will break

his heart further. I am the only one he has; (can you tell) I am so conflicted

about it all.

>

> He brought people into our lives and two of them on different occasions

molested me, which went on for a while. I was 5 (ish) when it started. When I

told this to my Mom several years ago (in my late 30s), her comments were " say a

prayer that you did not have to endure worse. Like those poor girls who get

raped by their family members. " She said more and each one sounded similarly

callous.

>

> Yes, I am aware of the atrocities people suffer. I am lucky compared to them.

But unlucky compared to some. Why are we comparing anyhow?

>

> Upon hearing the same thing, my Dad said, if he had to kill 2 people, it would

be those two, which made me feel a bit better, but then he added, it is your

Mother's fault. I was at work; she should have cared for you.

>

> Back to square one. I expected them to be adults, parents and my role models.

I expected them to own up to their mistakes and say 3 words to me. " I am sorry " .

>

> My Mom, to this day, says the same thing, " if I had to do it again, there

would be nothing I would change. It was my circumstance and people in it, not

me. " My Dad will utilize more empathy, so he will simply say, " I know I made

mistakes, I am not perfect, but I really tried. It was your….. " and blame it on

everyone else.

>

> Today, I am a parent myself, married for 20 years and I am struggling to keep

my Dad out of my personality traits. Yes, I see him in me and it makes me sick.

That is actually how I discovered he was a BLP. I was trying to find out what

was going on with my anger issues and ran into BLP and immediately recognized my

Dad. I have tendencies, perhaps a learned behavior pattern and refuse to put my

4 year old through the same misery. It is time I took care of my " inner child "

and stood up for her…once and for all. I want to stop my Dad meddling, poking

and messing with me every so often with his crazy antics. I want to be able to

draw clearer lines, say no…NOOOOOOO to people when I want to, speak up when

something hurts me, not be so angry and easily bruised ALL the time, and darn

it, I just want to find peace, heal…and enjoy my little girl! Be a solid person.

Be someone she will want to lean on.

>

> I know I cannot fix my Dad, I have tried for years. I just want to do

something neither he nor my Mom has been able to do. Break the chain…of abuse.

(crap, here comes the tears…)

>

> I do not want to be abused anymore, nor do I want to hand the same lousy

inheritance to my daughter.

>

> I am here to learn and share. Hope there is some room here for me, I do play

nicely I might add – though I do tend to bruise easily (when told to get over it

and shut up), but I will stay quiet and leave rather than act crazy like someone

I know

>

> Sunshine to all.

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the Group, angry moon.

You must have a core of steel, to have survived childhood with two parents who

were so unqualified to parent in such different ways. I think that if I'd

been forced to make that choice I too would have chosen to live with my dad, who

was kind and loving, sort of a rescuer type, but rather distant and not

interested in the rigors of actual parenting. My dad was more like a visiting

uncle, a Mr. Fun Guy. Like yours, my nada was very domineering and

perfectionistic and nothing I did or said was right or good enough. That

description you gave of not feeling able to even breathe right in her presence

really resonates with me.

My own personal belief is that if you are aware that you have behaviors that are

bpd-like from having been raised by personality-disordered parents (we call

those " bpd flea " behaviors), your awareness and distress and determination to

change or better control these behaviors, are GOOD things indicative of a

healthy, normally-wired brain. Those qualities: the ability to perceive that

some behaviors are negative, counterproductive and harmful, the ability to feel

remorse, and the desire to change, all mean that you very likely do NOT have

personality disorder.

As you have pointed out, your parents don't seem to think they need to change,

and that is the key point of why those with bpd and other personality disorders

rarely if ever seek therapy. Instead they justify and rationalize and even feel

entitled to behave horribly, immaturely, selfishly, negligently and abusively;

such thinking is a hallmark trait of those with pds. " You made me do it. " " Its

not my fault " " Its just the way I am " , " You deserved it because you are bad. "

" You are the cause of all my problems. "

So, you ARE breaking the chain of abuse, and that is a good thing.

I hope you find much peace and healing here, its a good Group of fellow KOs

(adult children of pd parents) and we " get it. "

-Annie

>

> I wrote something much more emotional prior to this and thanks to the dinner

call, I had time to re-evaluate it and write this more coherent intro. Here goes

(sorry, a tad verbose today).

>

> My parents divorced when I was 6, I was given the choice to stay with the

parent of my preference. My Mother…in a nut shell is an unhappy obsessive

compulsive (cleans everything) perfectionist and I felt so cold when I was with

her. She was a cold and loveless woman -- now I realize like my Dad she carried

her own childhood burden which made her sad, angry, hateful and bitter person.

They both ended up using love as a tool, and I was always at the end of that

tool. Or wait, was I the tool – never mind that!

>

> I got side tracked, ok – after a dramatic standoff; I chose to live with my

Dad. We left my Mom and half-brother behind (or so I thought) and moved into our

own apartment. Actually, it was a basement located in an office building. Not

the best place to raise a kid, but oh well.

>

> I had time to evaluate it all and realize why I went with my Dad. My Dad would

leave for days and I'd stay by myself, oh the relief, I treasured those moments!

My tyrant Mom on the other hand would not let me even breath unless I did it her

way 24/7 and still she would tell me how much better she is and always will be.

So, yes, I think I would pick my Dad this life or the next. It seemed like the

only place my soul could breath was with my unstable but loving Dad. Simply

because he would be gone for days and I would find peace.

>

> My Dad is a warm, smiley, talkative person. He is also very smart, charming,

intelligent and yes manipulative. He can give you the shirt off his back (I have

literally seen him do that) and write a book about how tremendously crappy

person you are in the same week. He meets people, loves them, gives them our

house keys yada yada and when crap hits the fan, we are blocking the doors,

changing the locks, moving and what not.

>

> When my parent were married, we would take long drives and he would always

stop for each hitchhiker we saw – would take them all the way to their home, at

our discomfort. If an animal is hurt, he is there fighting for it, trying to

save it. He really has a great heart (a broken one, but still there is good in

it). I know this for sure, hence why standing up and calling him out will break

his heart further. I am the only one he has; (can you tell) I am so conflicted

about it all.

>

> He brought people into our lives and two of them on different occasions

molested me, which went on for a while. I was 5 (ish) when it started. When I

told this to my Mom several years ago (in my late 30s), her comments were " say a

prayer that you did not have to endure worse. Like those poor girls who get

raped by their family members. " She said more and each one sounded similarly

callous.

>

> Yes, I am aware of the atrocities people suffer. I am lucky compared to them.

But unlucky compared to some. Why are we comparing anyhow?

>

> Upon hearing the same thing, my Dad said, if he had to kill 2 people, it would

be those two, which made me feel a bit better, but then he added, it is your

Mother's fault. I was at work; she should have cared for you.

>

> Back to square one. I expected them to be adults, parents and my role models.

I expected them to own up to their mistakes and say 3 words to me. " I am sorry " .

>

> My Mom, to this day, says the same thing, " if I had to do it again, there

would be nothing I would change. It was my circumstance and people in it, not

me. " My Dad will utilize more empathy, so he will simply say, " I know I made

mistakes, I am not perfect, but I really tried. It was your….. " and blame it on

everyone else.

>

> Today, I am a parent myself, married for 20 years and I am struggling to keep

my Dad out of my personality traits. Yes, I see him in me and it makes me sick.

That is actually how I discovered he was a BLP. I was trying to find out what

was going on with my anger issues and ran into BLP and immediately recognized my

Dad. I have tendencies, perhaps a learned behavior pattern and refuse to put my

4 year old through the same misery. It is time I took care of my " inner child "

and stood up for her…once and for all. I want to stop my Dad meddling, poking

and messing with me every so often with his crazy antics. I want to be able to

draw clearer lines, say no…NOOOOOOO to people when I want to, speak up when

something hurts me, not be so angry and easily bruised ALL the time, and darn

it, I just want to find peace, heal…and enjoy my little girl! Be a solid person.

Be someone she will want to lean on.

>

> I know I cannot fix my Dad, I have tried for years. I just want to do

something neither he nor my Mom has been able to do. Break the chain…of abuse.

(crap, here comes the tears…)

>

> I do not want to be abused anymore, nor do I want to hand the same lousy

inheritance to my daughter.

>

> I am here to learn and share. Hope there is some room here for me, I do play

nicely I might add – though I do tend to bruise easily (when told to get over it

and shut up), but I will stay quiet and leave rather than act crazy like someone

I know

>

> Sunshine to all.

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the Group, angry moon.

You must have a core of steel, to have survived childhood with two parents who

were so unqualified to parent in such different ways. I think that if I'd

been forced to make that choice I too would have chosen to live with my dad, who

was kind and loving, sort of a rescuer type, but rather distant and not

interested in the rigors of actual parenting. My dad was more like a visiting

uncle, a Mr. Fun Guy. Like yours, my nada was very domineering and

perfectionistic and nothing I did or said was right or good enough. That

description you gave of not feeling able to even breathe right in her presence

really resonates with me.

My own personal belief is that if you are aware that you have behaviors that are

bpd-like from having been raised by personality-disordered parents (we call

those " bpd flea " behaviors), your awareness and distress and determination to

change or better control these behaviors, are GOOD things indicative of a

healthy, normally-wired brain. Those qualities: the ability to perceive that

some behaviors are negative, counterproductive and harmful, the ability to feel

remorse, and the desire to change, all mean that you very likely do NOT have

personality disorder.

As you have pointed out, your parents don't seem to think they need to change,

and that is the key point of why those with bpd and other personality disorders

rarely if ever seek therapy. Instead they justify and rationalize and even feel

entitled to behave horribly, immaturely, selfishly, negligently and abusively;

such thinking is a hallmark trait of those with pds. " You made me do it. " " Its

not my fault " " Its just the way I am " , " You deserved it because you are bad. "

" You are the cause of all my problems. "

So, you ARE breaking the chain of abuse, and that is a good thing.

I hope you find much peace and healing here, its a good Group of fellow KOs

(adult children of pd parents) and we " get it. "

-Annie

>

> I wrote something much more emotional prior to this and thanks to the dinner

call, I had time to re-evaluate it and write this more coherent intro. Here goes

(sorry, a tad verbose today).

>

> My parents divorced when I was 6, I was given the choice to stay with the

parent of my preference. My Mother…in a nut shell is an unhappy obsessive

compulsive (cleans everything) perfectionist and I felt so cold when I was with

her. She was a cold and loveless woman -- now I realize like my Dad she carried

her own childhood burden which made her sad, angry, hateful and bitter person.

They both ended up using love as a tool, and I was always at the end of that

tool. Or wait, was I the tool – never mind that!

>

> I got side tracked, ok – after a dramatic standoff; I chose to live with my

Dad. We left my Mom and half-brother behind (or so I thought) and moved into our

own apartment. Actually, it was a basement located in an office building. Not

the best place to raise a kid, but oh well.

>

> I had time to evaluate it all and realize why I went with my Dad. My Dad would

leave for days and I'd stay by myself, oh the relief, I treasured those moments!

My tyrant Mom on the other hand would not let me even breath unless I did it her

way 24/7 and still she would tell me how much better she is and always will be.

So, yes, I think I would pick my Dad this life or the next. It seemed like the

only place my soul could breath was with my unstable but loving Dad. Simply

because he would be gone for days and I would find peace.

>

> My Dad is a warm, smiley, talkative person. He is also very smart, charming,

intelligent and yes manipulative. He can give you the shirt off his back (I have

literally seen him do that) and write a book about how tremendously crappy

person you are in the same week. He meets people, loves them, gives them our

house keys yada yada and when crap hits the fan, we are blocking the doors,

changing the locks, moving and what not.

>

> When my parent were married, we would take long drives and he would always

stop for each hitchhiker we saw – would take them all the way to their home, at

our discomfort. If an animal is hurt, he is there fighting for it, trying to

save it. He really has a great heart (a broken one, but still there is good in

it). I know this for sure, hence why standing up and calling him out will break

his heart further. I am the only one he has; (can you tell) I am so conflicted

about it all.

>

> He brought people into our lives and two of them on different occasions

molested me, which went on for a while. I was 5 (ish) when it started. When I

told this to my Mom several years ago (in my late 30s), her comments were " say a

prayer that you did not have to endure worse. Like those poor girls who get

raped by their family members. " She said more and each one sounded similarly

callous.

>

> Yes, I am aware of the atrocities people suffer. I am lucky compared to them.

But unlucky compared to some. Why are we comparing anyhow?

>

> Upon hearing the same thing, my Dad said, if he had to kill 2 people, it would

be those two, which made me feel a bit better, but then he added, it is your

Mother's fault. I was at work; she should have cared for you.

>

> Back to square one. I expected them to be adults, parents and my role models.

I expected them to own up to their mistakes and say 3 words to me. " I am sorry " .

>

> My Mom, to this day, says the same thing, " if I had to do it again, there

would be nothing I would change. It was my circumstance and people in it, not

me. " My Dad will utilize more empathy, so he will simply say, " I know I made

mistakes, I am not perfect, but I really tried. It was your….. " and blame it on

everyone else.

>

> Today, I am a parent myself, married for 20 years and I am struggling to keep

my Dad out of my personality traits. Yes, I see him in me and it makes me sick.

That is actually how I discovered he was a BLP. I was trying to find out what

was going on with my anger issues and ran into BLP and immediately recognized my

Dad. I have tendencies, perhaps a learned behavior pattern and refuse to put my

4 year old through the same misery. It is time I took care of my " inner child "

and stood up for her…once and for all. I want to stop my Dad meddling, poking

and messing with me every so often with his crazy antics. I want to be able to

draw clearer lines, say no…NOOOOOOO to people when I want to, speak up when

something hurts me, not be so angry and easily bruised ALL the time, and darn

it, I just want to find peace, heal…and enjoy my little girl! Be a solid person.

Be someone she will want to lean on.

>

> I know I cannot fix my Dad, I have tried for years. I just want to do

something neither he nor my Mom has been able to do. Break the chain…of abuse.

(crap, here comes the tears…)

>

> I do not want to be abused anymore, nor do I want to hand the same lousy

inheritance to my daughter.

>

> I am here to learn and share. Hope there is some room here for me, I do play

nicely I might add – though I do tend to bruise easily (when told to get over it

and shut up), but I will stay quiet and leave rather than act crazy like someone

I know

>

> Sunshine to all.

>