Big girl panties needed; why am I such a wimp?

[Guest guest]

As you all know, Mother's Day is coming up and I think we're all a bit on edge.

Today I had a complete meltdown (in private of course).

My nada has been telling my husband that she doesn't understand why I'm so cold,

distant. Keep in mind that when I do visit her, I make sure I'm as positive and

upbeat as possible just to counter her negativity and cynicism. I let her make

all the decisions about what to do for the day, let her set the pace when

walking, let her complain about her miserable life. But I admit I do not get

sentimental and mushy.

This last visit on Thurs. she came right out and told me she didn't think I

loved her or cared about her. She was fishing for " love " statements and for me

to tell her how important she was to me. I couldn't do it. I did tell her I

cared about her well being, that I was happy to come over and help where I

could, to hang out because I know she's lonely (she says that all the time so

I'm just mirroring things she's said). She seemed content with that and the day

went well.

Saturday our daughter graduated with her Master's degree. We were gone all day

but I had informed my nada about this, that we would call her a bit later than

normal. When hubby called her, she went off on him, was very rude, abrupt and

cold. He told her OK, if she was busy, he would let her go. She back pedaled a

bit, spent the next hour complaining about her life. Didn't give a crap about

our daughter's graduation and accomplishments.

When he got off the phone, I knew she had crapped in his face again. It usually

upsets me but this time it hit me hard. I try and try to put it aside, remember

that she is like this. But this morning in church, I couldn't think of anything

else but her comments, was having an internal conversation/fight with her in my

mind. I had to leave, went to the car and just bawled like a baby.

My husband was hurting, I was hurting and yet we know better. Is there any way

to ignore her garbage, not take it in like the poison it is? Some would say go

NC with her. But she is 83, totally alone, should not be living alone because

her mind is slipping more each month. It's against my nature to abandon someone

like this. But it's hard to stay emotionally distant.

[Guest guest]

> When he got off the phone, I knew she had crapped in his face again. It

usually upsets me but this time it hit me hard. I try and try to put it aside,

remember that she is like this. But this morning in church, I couldn't think of

anything else but her comments, was having an internal conversation/fight with

her in my mind. I had to leave, went to the car and just bawled like a baby.

>

> My husband was hurting, I was hurting and yet we know better. Is there any way

to ignore her garbage, not take it in like the poison it is? Some would say go

NC with her. But she is 83, totally alone, should not be living alone because

her mind is slipping more each month. It's against my nature to abandon someone

like this. But it's hard to stay emotionally distant.

>

I don't think you have to ignore her garbage. But you don't have to accept it

either. You get to decide whether you are going to listen to people whine and

complain. You get to decide whether you are going to let them use you for

therapy when you are not a T, or actually refer them to people who can help.

You don't have to " abandon " her and you don't have to choose NC. But I think you

and your DH could both benefit from learning your own boundaries and working to

give yourselves space from the toxicity. If she wants to complain, let her know

she can call her doctor or her therapist or even her friends, but that you won't

stay on the phone to listen to it. I know it sounds mean at first and you feel

sorry for what a sad old lonely person she is, but you both need the boundaries.

Otherwise she will use you up until you are dry.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

> When he got off the phone, I knew she had crapped in his face again. It

usually upsets me but this time it hit me hard. I try and try to put it aside,

remember that she is like this. But this morning in church, I couldn't think of

anything else but her comments, was having an internal conversation/fight with

her in my mind. I had to leave, went to the car and just bawled like a baby.

>

> My husband was hurting, I was hurting and yet we know better. Is there any way

to ignore her garbage, not take it in like the poison it is? Some would say go

NC with her. But she is 83, totally alone, should not be living alone because

her mind is slipping more each month. It's against my nature to abandon someone

like this. But it's hard to stay emotionally distant.

>

I don't think you have to ignore her garbage. But you don't have to accept it

either. You get to decide whether you are going to listen to people whine and

complain. You get to decide whether you are going to let them use you for

therapy when you are not a T, or actually refer them to people who can help.

You don't have to " abandon " her and you don't have to choose NC. But I think you

and your DH could both benefit from learning your own boundaries and working to

give yourselves space from the toxicity. If she wants to complain, let her know

she can call her doctor or her therapist or even her friends, but that you won't

stay on the phone to listen to it. I know it sounds mean at first and you feel

sorry for what a sad old lonely person she is, but you both need the boundaries.

Otherwise she will use you up until you are dry.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

Hi Irene,

In my experience, distance is absolutely necessary to gather perspective in

situations like this. Maybe there is some way you could get that even though NC

is not an option for you. If you don't mind I'll give some suggestions, for you

to take or leave in accordance with how useful they seem.

First, a period of real geographic distance with complete NC. A one week or two

week vacation, where someone else agrees to check in on nada for you. If there

truly is noone else, perhaps your husband could be this person. What is

absolutely essential though is that it would be a significant period of COMPLETE

freedom, including the knowledge that she does not know where you are or how to

get to you. In my experience, borderline behaviour is just not visible from up

close. You HAVE to get distance to understand it.

Then, after that initial period, a completely regular check-in time, to which

you adhere. Whatever you know in your true, objective opinion that nada needs.

One call per day? One visit per week? The most important thing is to have

these be at set times. That way you can know when your down time is going to

be, and when your on time is going to be. That helps.

It would be so great if you could set up something like a two week

nada-moratorium, during which time you figure out your contact schedule, and

then you stick to it, religiously, on return. This might provide you at least

some degree of relief.

Best,

Charlotte

>

> As you all know, Mother's Day is coming up and I think we're all a bit on

edge. Today I had a complete meltdown (in private of course).

>

> My nada has been telling my husband that she doesn't understand why I'm so

cold, distant. Keep in mind that when I do visit her, I make sure I'm as

positive and upbeat as possible just to counter her negativity and cynicism. I

let her make all the decisions about what to do for the day, let her set the

pace when walking, let her complain about her miserable life. But I admit I do

not get sentimental and mushy.

>

> This last visit on Thurs. she came right out and told me she didn't think I

loved her or cared about her. She was fishing for " love " statements and for me

to tell her how important she was to me. I couldn't do it. I did tell her I

cared about her well being, that I was happy to come over and help where I

could, to hang out because I know she's lonely (she says that all the time so

I'm just mirroring things she's said). She seemed content with that and the day

went well.

>

> Saturday our daughter graduated with her Master's degree. We were gone all day

but I had informed my nada about this, that we would call her a bit later than

normal. When hubby called her, she went off on him, was very rude, abrupt and

cold. He told her OK, if she was busy, he would let her go. She back pedaled a

bit, spent the next hour complaining about her life. Didn't give a crap about

our daughter's graduation and accomplishments.

>

> When he got off the phone, I knew she had crapped in his face again. It

usually upsets me but this time it hit me hard. I try and try to put it aside,

remember that she is like this. But this morning in church, I couldn't think of

anything else but her comments, was having an internal conversation/fight with

her in my mind. I had to leave, went to the car and just bawled like a baby.

>

> My husband was hurting, I was hurting and yet we know better. Is there any way

to ignore her garbage, not take it in like the poison it is? Some would say go

NC with her. But she is 83, totally alone, should not be living alone because

her mind is slipping more each month. It's against my nature to abandon someone

like this. But it's hard to stay emotionally distant.

>

[Guest guest]

I will add after re-reading your title:

The fact that your mother bothers you (and your DH) does not indicate something

is wrong with YOU. A lot of times we think we are supposed to just be able to

put up with everything and not be hurt or annoyed, just be there and let it all

roll off our backs without losing our smile. It's not wimpy to be frustrated,

annoyed, or even infuriated. It's normal. It's human.

We're taught it's not ok to be angry. It's not polite to hang up on someone.

We're supposed to be compassionate and sympathetic all the time, no matter what.

We're not supposed to have feelings of our own...all we're supposed to care

about is our BPD parent.

But I think a better goal is to learn to identify and meet your own needs.

Sometimes that means getting off the phone when someone is bothering you.

Sveta

> > When he got off the phone, I knew she had crapped in his face again. It

usually upsets me but this time it hit me hard. I try and try to put it aside,

remember that she is like this. But this morning in church, I couldn't think of

anything else but her comments, was having an internal conversation/fight with

her in my mind. I had to leave, went to the car and just bawled like a baby.

> >

> > My husband was hurting, I was hurting and yet we know better. Is there any

way to ignore her garbage, not take it in like the poison it is? Some would say

go NC with her. But she is 83, totally alone, should not be living alone because

her mind is slipping more each month. It's against my nature to abandon someone

like this. But it's hard to stay emotionally distant.

> >

>

> I don't think you have to ignore her garbage. But you don't have to accept it

either. You get to decide whether you are going to listen to people whine and

complain. You get to decide whether you are going to let them use you for

therapy when you are not a T, or actually refer them to people who can help.

>

> You don't have to " abandon " her and you don't have to choose NC. But I think

you and your DH could both benefit from learning your own boundaries and working

to give yourselves space from the toxicity. If she wants to complain, let her

know she can call her doctor or her therapist or even her friends, but that you

won't stay on the phone to listen to it. I know it sounds mean at first and you

feel sorry for what a sad old lonely person she is, but you both need the

boundaries. Otherwise she will use you up until you are dry.

>

> Sveta

>

[Guest guest]

Its sad, but sometimes the elderly person with encroaching dementia needs to

reach the point where she actually demonstrates that he or she is real a danger

to herself or to others before anything can be done to get her the professional,

supervised care that she needs.

In my own nada's case, she began hallucinating and would call Sister or call her

apartment manager at all hours of the night to complain about " circus people "

surrounding her building. Then, one night nada called the police (again) to

come and investigate the " circus people " , and nada became belligerent with the

police (probably in the same way she would attack dad verbally) and so the

police took her in for psychiatric observation. At that point, when nada was

diagnosed a second time with senile dementia, Sister was able to acquire

guardianship of nada and have nada relocated into an assisted living residence

with an Alzheimer's wing that gave nada the 24/7 supervision she needed.

I'm grateful that in my own nada's case, she didn't accidentally set her

apartment building on fire or accidentally overdose herself or wander out into

traffic chasing her " circus people. " I'm glad she didn't buy the gun she kept

threatening to buy. Things could have been so very much worse.

-Annie

>

> I personally believe she needs to be in assisted care. She can't balance her

checkbook any more (oh well), has trouble figuring out which pills to put in

each compartment for her weekly meds, has trouble using the phone, can't

understand the TV listings, etc. She's not completely senile but she's getting

there. All that adds to her general attitude of anger and nastiness. But she's

not a danger to herself yet. Because of the stories she's told to the people at

her doctor's office, I don't think they like us or trust us much. We did tell

them that we spoke with Adult Protection Services, explained the whole story of

what we do and don't do in her life concerning money, etc. Not sure if they

cared.

>

> But yes, I'm so anxious to be sharing her care with someone else. We tried

that once a couple years ago. We went out of town for a few days, told her our

daughter and son would call in to check, see if she was OK or needed anything.

They called, she refused to pick up the phone. So getting additional help for

her doesn't work. Every time we've tried to arrange help for her around the

house or for yard work, she cancelled or fired the people. Heck, even when we

try to get things done that she insists needs to be done, she'll tell us " No,

not today. I don't want to do that. "

>

> Anyway, no need to go on and on about that. We have to get through this power

trip of hers and then figure out how to handle the next one. That's why I have a

call in to talk to someone about it all.

>

> I'm so glad your mom is in someone else's care. I glad you have some emotional

freedom now. I'm not sure if we're ever free until they're gone but I hope

you're feeling better.

[Guest guest]

In response to you wonderful people that wrote back:

Sveta: We have set boundaries with nada, more able to say " no " to her about some

things. We have 2 days a week set to visit and she knows any appointments have

to be on those days. And we call 2 times a week. Because she's so rattled and

confused about taking care of things at home and she can't drive, this is just

enough to keep her on track with food, paying bills, doing the basics around the

house. And you're right - we're taught all these do's and don't's: respect the

adults, don't argue, do as you're told, etc. It took me a long time to

understand that I was a grown up now and didn't have to agree with all she said

or do all she said. She doesn't like it though. She says I'm not the same person

I was when I was a child. Thank goodness for that.

Katrina: You're right, we need to speak up more to her. When she gets snarky

and rude, we should say something back to her instead of tolerating it. We don't

have to be rude in return but we shouldn't let her stomp all over us either.

CmeBfree: It's OK to giggle. Sometimes I feel that my only defense is to laugh

at the whole ridiculous situation and her behavior. She has no social skills

even though she thinks she's very " uptown " , not " common. "

Charlotte: We have determined just how much time she needs each week and we

stick with it. If she's truly sick as she was last month, then we'll help more.

But we go just as long as we need to get things done as much as we can. If she

says she doesn't want us to do certain chores, so be it. It won't get done. And

we do want to get away. We were gone a week in Jan. when my husband's mom died.

She was a real piece of work too. Now we're going in June to help his Dad move.

It feels good to be away. And it's a legitimate reason. She can't say we're

abandoning her. Even if she does, we have to do what we want to do, not let her

control us. Easier said than done.

News flash: she called, left a msg. Said " Irene, I'm sorry I haven't talked to

you. I'll call you a little later. " I nearly fell down. She's never apologized

to me. And it sounded real. Sorry to burst the bubble but when I spoke with her

again, she said she's been sick, wanted to call me but was too ill. She wasn't

too sick to be rude to my husband. And she's making excuses here. I got brave

enough to say, " When you spoke to J, you sounded angry and upset. " She said no,

she wasn't; she was just sick and thought she was going to throw up. B.S. Then

she was talking about how much she wanted some Taco Bell. Kind of hinting around

that maybe when I go to the store, there was a Taco Bell right near there? I

told her I already had lunch. I'm keeping to the weekly schedule. I see Big Girl

Panties in my future.

And I do have an appt. with the counselor in a week or so. Wish me luck.

[Guest guest]

In response to you wonderful people that wrote back:

Sveta: We have set boundaries with nada, more able to say " no " to her about some

things. We have 2 days a week set to visit and she knows any appointments have

to be on those days. And we call 2 times a week. Because she's so rattled and

confused about taking care of things at home and she can't drive, this is just

enough to keep her on track with food, paying bills, doing the basics around the

house. And you're right - we're taught all these do's and don't's: respect the

adults, don't argue, do as you're told, etc. It took me a long time to

understand that I was a grown up now and didn't have to agree with all she said

or do all she said. She doesn't like it though. She says I'm not the same person

I was when I was a child. Thank goodness for that.

Katrina: You're right, we need to speak up more to her. When she gets snarky

and rude, we should say something back to her instead of tolerating it. We don't

have to be rude in return but we shouldn't let her stomp all over us either.

CmeBfree: It's OK to giggle. Sometimes I feel that my only defense is to laugh

at the whole ridiculous situation and her behavior. She has no social skills

even though she thinks she's very " uptown " , not " common. "

Charlotte: We have determined just how much time she needs each week and we

stick with it. If she's truly sick as she was last month, then we'll help more.

But we go just as long as we need to get things done as much as we can. If she

says she doesn't want us to do certain chores, so be it. It won't get done. And

we do want to get away. We were gone a week in Jan. when my husband's mom died.

She was a real piece of work too. Now we're going in June to help his Dad move.

It feels good to be away. And it's a legitimate reason. She can't say we're

abandoning her. Even if she does, we have to do what we want to do, not let her

control us. Easier said than done.

News flash: she called, left a msg. Said " Irene, I'm sorry I haven't talked to

you. I'll call you a little later. " I nearly fell down. She's never apologized

to me. And it sounded real. Sorry to burst the bubble but when I spoke with her

again, she said she's been sick, wanted to call me but was too ill. She wasn't

too sick to be rude to my husband. And she's making excuses here. I got brave

enough to say, " When you spoke to J, you sounded angry and upset. " She said no,

she wasn't; she was just sick and thought she was going to throw up. B.S. Then

she was talking about how much she wanted some Taco Bell. Kind of hinting around

that maybe when I go to the store, there was a Taco Bell right near there? I

told her I already had lunch. I'm keeping to the weekly schedule. I see Big Girl

Panties in my future.

And I do have an appt. with the counselor in a week or so. Wish me luck.

[Guest guest]

In response to you wonderful people that wrote back:

Sveta: We have set boundaries with nada, more able to say " no " to her about some

things. We have 2 days a week set to visit and she knows any appointments have

to be on those days. And we call 2 times a week. Because she's so rattled and

confused about taking care of things at home and she can't drive, this is just

enough to keep her on track with food, paying bills, doing the basics around the

house. And you're right - we're taught all these do's and don't's: respect the

adults, don't argue, do as you're told, etc. It took me a long time to

understand that I was a grown up now and didn't have to agree with all she said

or do all she said. She doesn't like it though. She says I'm not the same person

I was when I was a child. Thank goodness for that.

Katrina: You're right, we need to speak up more to her. When she gets snarky

and rude, we should say something back to her instead of tolerating it. We don't

have to be rude in return but we shouldn't let her stomp all over us either.

CmeBfree: It's OK to giggle. Sometimes I feel that my only defense is to laugh

at the whole ridiculous situation and her behavior. She has no social skills

even though she thinks she's very " uptown " , not " common. "

Charlotte: We have determined just how much time she needs each week and we

stick with it. If she's truly sick as she was last month, then we'll help more.

But we go just as long as we need to get things done as much as we can. If she

says she doesn't want us to do certain chores, so be it. It won't get done. And

we do want to get away. We were gone a week in Jan. when my husband's mom died.

She was a real piece of work too. Now we're going in June to help his Dad move.

It feels good to be away. And it's a legitimate reason. She can't say we're

abandoning her. Even if she does, we have to do what we want to do, not let her

control us. Easier said than done.

News flash: she called, left a msg. Said " Irene, I'm sorry I haven't talked to

you. I'll call you a little later. " I nearly fell down. She's never apologized

to me. And it sounded real. Sorry to burst the bubble but when I spoke with her

again, she said she's been sick, wanted to call me but was too ill. She wasn't

too sick to be rude to my husband. And she's making excuses here. I got brave

enough to say, " When you spoke to J, you sounded angry and upset. " She said no,

she wasn't; she was just sick and thought she was going to throw up. B.S. Then

she was talking about how much she wanted some Taco Bell. Kind of hinting around

that maybe when I go to the store, there was a Taco Bell right near there? I

told her I already had lunch. I'm keeping to the weekly schedule. I see Big Girl

Panties in my future.

And I do have an appt. with the counselor in a week or so. Wish me luck.

[Guest guest]

Interesting. My nada has been talking about getting a gun the past few months. I

don't respond. Considering she can't even cook food anymore (just warms up

things in the micro) I don't think she would ever be able to learn how to handle

a gun. But all she needs is to have it loaded and ready; she could shoot anyone

who walked in the house, including us. She says her eyesight is horrible and she

keeps the house very dark. Bad combination.

>

I'm glad she didn't buy the gun she kept threatening to buy. Things could

have been so very much worse.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting. My nada has been talking about getting a gun the past few months. I

don't respond. Considering she can't even cook food anymore (just warms up

things in the micro) I don't think she would ever be able to learn how to handle

a gun. But all she needs is to have it loaded and ready; she could shoot anyone

who walked in the house, including us. She says her eyesight is horrible and she

keeps the house very dark. Bad combination.

>

I'm glad she didn't buy the gun she kept threatening to buy. Things could

have been so very much worse.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting. My nada has been talking about getting a gun the past few months. I

don't respond. Considering she can't even cook food anymore (just warms up

things in the micro) I don't think she would ever be able to learn how to handle

a gun. But all she needs is to have it loaded and ready; she could shoot anyone

who walked in the house, including us. She says her eyesight is horrible and she

keeps the house very dark. Bad combination.

>

I'm glad she didn't buy the gun she kept threatening to buy. Things could

have been so very much worse.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, if my nada had managed to obtain a gun and tried to shoot at her

hallucinations (the " circus people " that she saw coming through the walls of her

apartment and swarming around it at night) she could have hit a real person

entering her home or someone on her apartment grounds.

So my suggestion is that if your nada is making determined efforts to buy a gun,

it may be time to bring this to her doctor's attention so that she can receive a

psychiatric evaluation.

Best of luck with this, its a sad and horrible situation to watch a parent

deteriorate from dementia. From my perspective, my nada had always been rather

paranoid and delusional, controlling, demanding and verbally (and physically)

abusive due to her bpd, but she was able to hide these dysfunctional thoughts

and behaviors in public and only unleash them in private at her immediate family

and foo.

But as dementia ate away more and more of nada's executive brain function (the

part of our brain that allows us to consciously control our behaviors) her

paranoia, delusions and other dysfunctional bpd behaviors became more open and

public. Then the hallucinations started, which is the key symptom of

psychosis: not being in touch with reality anymore.

So, I wish you luck, and a good resolution to your situation with your nada.

-Annie

> >

> I'm glad she didn't buy the gun she kept threatening to buy. Things could

have been so very much worse.

> >

> > -Annie

[Guest guest]

Yes, if my nada had managed to obtain a gun and tried to shoot at her

hallucinations (the " circus people " that she saw coming through the walls of her

apartment and swarming around it at night) she could have hit a real person

entering her home or someone on her apartment grounds.

So my suggestion is that if your nada is making determined efforts to buy a gun,

it may be time to bring this to her doctor's attention so that she can receive a

psychiatric evaluation.

Best of luck with this, its a sad and horrible situation to watch a parent

deteriorate from dementia. From my perspective, my nada had always been rather

paranoid and delusional, controlling, demanding and verbally (and physically)

abusive due to her bpd, but she was able to hide these dysfunctional thoughts

and behaviors in public and only unleash them in private at her immediate family

and foo.

But as dementia ate away more and more of nada's executive brain function (the

part of our brain that allows us to consciously control our behaviors) her

paranoia, delusions and other dysfunctional bpd behaviors became more open and

public. Then the hallucinations started, which is the key symptom of

psychosis: not being in touch with reality anymore.

So, I wish you luck, and a good resolution to your situation with your nada.

-Annie

> >

> I'm glad she didn't buy the gun she kept threatening to buy. Things could

have been so very much worse.

> >

> > -Annie

[Guest guest]

Yes, if my nada had managed to obtain a gun and tried to shoot at her

hallucinations (the " circus people " that she saw coming through the walls of her

apartment and swarming around it at night) she could have hit a real person

entering her home or someone on her apartment grounds.

So my suggestion is that if your nada is making determined efforts to buy a gun,

it may be time to bring this to her doctor's attention so that she can receive a

psychiatric evaluation.

Best of luck with this, its a sad and horrible situation to watch a parent

deteriorate from dementia. From my perspective, my nada had always been rather

paranoid and delusional, controlling, demanding and verbally (and physically)

abusive due to her bpd, but she was able to hide these dysfunctional thoughts

and behaviors in public and only unleash them in private at her immediate family

and foo.

But as dementia ate away more and more of nada's executive brain function (the

part of our brain that allows us to consciously control our behaviors) her

paranoia, delusions and other dysfunctional bpd behaviors became more open and

public. Then the hallucinations started, which is the key symptom of

psychosis: not being in touch with reality anymore.

So, I wish you luck, and a good resolution to your situation with your nada.

-Annie

> >

> I'm glad she didn't buy the gun she kept threatening to buy. Things could

have been so very much worse.

> >

> > -Annie