Re: Not sure where else to turn.

[Guest guest]

I can't really offer much advice, but I have to say, I notice this very same

behavior with my three-year-old and my nada. It's creepy. My instincts tell me

it's not normal, so I try to limit their alone time as much as possible. That

way I can put myself in the middle as a buffer. 

It has gotten better over time (once I noticed what was going on and starting

taking steps to stop it). She doesn't act quite so clingy and fearful when she's

around nada. 

I actually had to step in the other day when it was storming, and nada was going

on and on (to my three-year-old) about how loud the thunder was. And I caught

myself jumping in, saying, " But it's NOT scary! " And nada gave me the strangest

look. My three-year-old agreed with me, thank goodness! 

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 3:04 PM

Subject: Not sure where else to turn.

 

Hi all,

I have a question on co-dependency.

My MIL is extremely co-dependent. She has a very co-dependent relationship with

her daughter. My SIL is 32 years old, lives with my MIL and doesn't do anything

without her. The relationship has kept my SIL from moving out and having a life

of her own. My MIL is also a master of guilt trips and is extremely

passive-aggressive. I am worried that my MIL is starting to become co-dependent

when it comes to my daughter and is in a way conditioning her for it. My

daughter is 3 years old and has always been very confident and tries to be as

independent as a 3 year old can be. Recently, whenever she has come home from

visiting my MIL she says things are scary or will just randomly say she's scared

for no reason. She also has been saying she can't do things when before she has

always had a " can do " attitude that my husband and I encouraged. She also gets

very clingy with my MIL when she is around her. She acts very reserved, passive

and shy when she is normally

very social and outgoing. When other relatives that my daughter is also close

to come around when my MIL is present she acts like she is afraid of them. When

it's time to go home she doesn't want to leave and throws a screaming, crying

fit and says she wants Granny. I know she plays and has fun at her house but she

also has 2 other sets of grandparents that she is close to and has fun with and

doesn't behave this way around them. When she visits her other Grandparents she

acts like the strong-willed, confident kid that I recognize and when it's time

to leave she happily hugs them and we go.

Is my MIL conditioning my daughter for the co-dependent relationship that she

has created with her own children? Is that even possible or am I being paranoid?

I went NC with my nada a couple of years ago and I know I have the tendency to

over-analyze peoples behaviors at times. I just know my daughter acts

differently around my MIL and she acts differently around other people when she

is with my MIL. I know she is only 3 years old, and I probably wouldn't be so

worried if it weren't for the relationship my MIL has with her own daughter. Am

I reading to much into this or does it sound like there is reason for concern?

Thanks for any advice! I know this group is about BPD parents, but I feel like

we all know and some of us may even be experts when it comes to co-dependency

and I couldn't find a whole lot on this specific scenario any where else.

[Guest guest]

I don't think you are being paranoid. Your description of your

daughter's behavior after visiting your MIL raises red flags

with me. It sounds to me like whatever is going on there is

unhealthy for your daughter. When a child's behavior

consistently changes for the worse after spending time with one

particular person, something's usually going on that isn't good.

It may not even be intentionally negative behavior. If your MIL

is co-dependent with her daughter to that extent, she may not

know any other way to have a relationship with your daughter.

She may think co-dependency is normal. My advice is to not let

your daughter spend time alone with your MIL. Whether or not

she's intentionally conditioning your daughter, your daughter is

seeing unhealthy relationships when she is with her and children

absorb behavior patterns from their environment. Your daughter

might just be picking up behavioral cues from how she sees your

SIL act with your MIL.

At 03:04 PM 05/07/2012 pandasmom08 wrote:

>Hi all,

>

>I have a question on co-dependency.

>

>My MIL is extremely co-dependent. She has a very co-dependent

>relationship with her daughter. My SIL is 32 years old, lives

>with my MIL and doesn't do anything without her. The

>relationship has kept my SIL from moving out and having a life

>of her own. My MIL is also a master of guilt trips and is

>extremely passive-aggressive. I am worried that my MIL is

>starting to become co-dependent when it comes to my daughter

>and is in a way conditioning her for it. My daughter is 3 years

>old and has always been very confident and tries to be as

>independent as a 3 year old can be. Recently, whenever she has

>come home from visiting my MIL she says things are scary or

>will just randomly say she's scared for no reason. She also has

>been saying she can't do things when before she has always had

>a " can do " attitude that my husband and I encouraged. She also

>gets very clingy with my MIL when she is around her. She acts

>very reserved, passive and shy when she is normally very social

>and outgoing. When other relatives that my daughter is also

>close to come around when my MIL is present she acts like she

>is afraid of them. When it's time to go home she doesn't want

>to leave and throws a screaming, crying fit and says she wants

>Granny. I know she plays and has fun at her house but she also

>has 2 other sets of grandparents that she is close to and has

>fun with and doesn't behave this way around them. When she

>visits her other Grandparents she acts like the strong-willed,

>confident kid that I recognize and when it's time to leave she

>happily hugs them and we go.

>

>Is my MIL conditioning my daughter for the co-dependent

>relationship that she has created with her own children? Is

>that even possible or am I being paranoid? I went NC with my

>nada a couple of years ago and I know I have the tendency to

>over-analyze peoples behaviors at times. I just know my

>daughter acts differently around my MIL and she acts

>differently around other people when she is with my MIL. I know

>she is only 3 years old, and I probably wouldn't be so worried

>if it weren't for the relationship my MIL has with her own

>daughter. Am I reading to much into this or does it sound like

>there is reason for concern?

>

>Thanks for any advice! I know this group is about BPD parents,

>but I feel like we all know and some of us may even be experts

>when it comes to co-dependency and I couldn't find a whole lot

>on this specific scenario any where else.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I don't think you are being paranoid. Your description of your

daughter's behavior after visiting your MIL raises red flags

with me. It sounds to me like whatever is going on there is

unhealthy for your daughter. When a child's behavior

consistently changes for the worse after spending time with one

particular person, something's usually going on that isn't good.

It may not even be intentionally negative behavior. If your MIL

is co-dependent with her daughter to that extent, she may not

know any other way to have a relationship with your daughter.

She may think co-dependency is normal. My advice is to not let

your daughter spend time alone with your MIL. Whether or not

she's intentionally conditioning your daughter, your daughter is

seeing unhealthy relationships when she is with her and children

absorb behavior patterns from their environment. Your daughter

might just be picking up behavioral cues from how she sees your

SIL act with your MIL.

At 03:04 PM 05/07/2012 pandasmom08 wrote:

>Hi all,

>

>I have a question on co-dependency.

>

>My MIL is extremely co-dependent. She has a very co-dependent

>relationship with her daughter. My SIL is 32 years old, lives

>with my MIL and doesn't do anything without her. The

>relationship has kept my SIL from moving out and having a life

>of her own. My MIL is also a master of guilt trips and is

>extremely passive-aggressive. I am worried that my MIL is

>starting to become co-dependent when it comes to my daughter

>and is in a way conditioning her for it. My daughter is 3 years

>old and has always been very confident and tries to be as

>independent as a 3 year old can be. Recently, whenever she has

>come home from visiting my MIL she says things are scary or

>will just randomly say she's scared for no reason. She also has

>been saying she can't do things when before she has always had

>a " can do " attitude that my husband and I encouraged. She also

>gets very clingy with my MIL when she is around her. She acts

>very reserved, passive and shy when she is normally very social

>and outgoing. When other relatives that my daughter is also

>close to come around when my MIL is present she acts like she

>is afraid of them. When it's time to go home she doesn't want

>to leave and throws a screaming, crying fit and says she wants

>Granny. I know she plays and has fun at her house but she also

>has 2 other sets of grandparents that she is close to and has

>fun with and doesn't behave this way around them. When she

>visits her other Grandparents she acts like the strong-willed,

>confident kid that I recognize and when it's time to leave she

>happily hugs them and we go.

>

>Is my MIL conditioning my daughter for the co-dependent

>relationship that she has created with her own children? Is

>that even possible or am I being paranoid? I went NC with my

>nada a couple of years ago and I know I have the tendency to

>over-analyze peoples behaviors at times. I just know my

>daughter acts differently around my MIL and she acts

>differently around other people when she is with my MIL. I know

>she is only 3 years old, and I probably wouldn't be so worried

>if it weren't for the relationship my MIL has with her own

>daughter. Am I reading to much into this or does it sound like

>there is reason for concern?

>

>Thanks for any advice! I know this group is about BPD parents,

>but I feel like we all know and some of us may even be experts

>when it comes to co-dependency and I couldn't find a whole lot

>on this specific scenario any where else.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Thank you everyone for the advice so far!

Jen H,

I think you are right with the infantilizing. That makes a lot of sense and

probably explains why my perfectly capable SIL acts like she's 10 years old when

it comes to most situations.

My MIL definitely creates dependency. She doesn't really put people down at

least that I have seen, but she is very good at making people feel sorry for her

and goes back and forth between " I need you/you need me " . She plays the " you

need me " card with my SIL, but plays the " I need you " card with my husband. I

believe she is doing both with my daughter. She is great at giving guilt trips.

She guilts my husband in to doing things for her. He is afraid to ever put his

foot down because he doesn't want to upset her or hurt her feelings. He is aware

and will be the first to admit this, but does nothing about it.

As far as what my husband thinks about my daughters behavior after spending time

with my MIL, he just thinks that my daughter is close to her and has a lot of

fun at her house and that's why she doesn't want to leave. He thinks our

daughter is just being a normal 3 year old. So he definitely has had me second

guessing my feelings and instincts. I have a younger son and have heard my MIL

tell my daughter that she is her favorite and my husband doesn't think much of

it. Says she is just playing, where as I find it very wrong. When I try to talk

to him about his family or put distance between his family and ours he thinks

it's because I just don't like them. He doesn't see things like I do. It

definitely has put a strain on our relationship. I want to protect our kids and

have them grow up confident and full of self esteem. Something I did not have as

a child. So when I see my daughter do the opposite, red flags pop up. My husband

thinks I'm overly sensitive because of my childhood.

As a compromise, instead of limiting contact between MIL and our daughter, we

have just stopped leaving her alone at MIL's house that way we can monitor what

is being said and done.

Thanks again for all the advice! I welcome anymore you may have.

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I have a question on co-dependency.

> >

> > My MIL is extremely co-dependent. She has a very co-dependent relationship

> > with her daughter. My SIL is 32 years old, lives with my MIL and doesn't do

> > anything without her. The relationship has kept my SIL from moving out and

> > having a life of her own. My MIL is also a master of guilt trips and is

> > extremely passive-aggressive. I am worried that my MIL is starting to

> > become co-dependent when it comes to my daughter and is in a way

> > conditioning her for it. My daughter is 3 years old and has always been

> > very confident and tries to be as independent as a 3 year old can be.

> > Recently, whenever she has come home from visiting my MIL she says things

> > are scary or will just randomly say she's scared for no reason. She also

> > has been saying she can't do things when before she has always had a " can

> > do " attitude that my husband and I encouraged. She also gets very clingy

> > with my MIL when she is around her. She acts very reserved, passive and shy

> > when she is normally very social and outgoing. When other relatives that my

> > daughter is also close to come around when my MIL is present she acts like

> > she is afraid of them. When it's time to go home she doesn't want to leave

> > and throws a screaming, crying fit and says she wants Granny. I know she

> > plays and has fun at her house but she also has 2 other sets of

> > grandparents that she is close to and has fun with and doesn't behave this

> > way around them. When she visits her other Grandparents she acts like the

> > strong-willed, confident kid that I recognize and when it's time to leave

> > she happily hugs them and we go.

> >

> > Is my MIL conditioning my daughter for the co-dependent relationship that

> > she has created with her own children? Is that even possible or am I being

> > paranoid? I went NC with my nada a couple of years ago and I know I have

> > the tendency to over-analyze peoples behaviors at times. I just know my

> > daughter acts differently around my MIL and she acts differently around

> > other people when she is with my MIL. I know she is only 3 years old, and I

> > probably wouldn't be so worried if it weren't for the relationship my MIL

> > has with her own daughter. Am I reading to much into this or does it sound

> > like there is reason for concern?

> >

> > Thanks for any advice! I know this group is about BPD parents, but I feel

> > like we all know and some of us may even be experts when it comes to

> > co-dependency and I couldn't find a whole lot on this specific scenario any

> > where else.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you everyone for the advice so far!

Jen H,

I think you are right with the infantilizing. That makes a lot of sense and

probably explains why my perfectly capable SIL acts like she's 10 years old when

it comes to most situations.

My MIL definitely creates dependency. She doesn't really put people down at

least that I have seen, but she is very good at making people feel sorry for her

and goes back and forth between " I need you/you need me " . She plays the " you

need me " card with my SIL, but plays the " I need you " card with my husband. I

believe she is doing both with my daughter. She is great at giving guilt trips.

She guilts my husband in to doing things for her. He is afraid to ever put his

foot down because he doesn't want to upset her or hurt her feelings. He is aware

and will be the first to admit this, but does nothing about it.

As far as what my husband thinks about my daughters behavior after spending time

with my MIL, he just thinks that my daughter is close to her and has a lot of

fun at her house and that's why she doesn't want to leave. He thinks our

daughter is just being a normal 3 year old. So he definitely has had me second

guessing my feelings and instincts. I have a younger son and have heard my MIL

tell my daughter that she is her favorite and my husband doesn't think much of

it. Says she is just playing, where as I find it very wrong. When I try to talk

to him about his family or put distance between his family and ours he thinks

it's because I just don't like them. He doesn't see things like I do. It

definitely has put a strain on our relationship. I want to protect our kids and

have them grow up confident and full of self esteem. Something I did not have as

a child. So when I see my daughter do the opposite, red flags pop up. My husband

thinks I'm overly sensitive because of my childhood.

As a compromise, instead of limiting contact between MIL and our daughter, we

have just stopped leaving her alone at MIL's house that way we can monitor what

is being said and done.

Thanks again for all the advice! I welcome anymore you may have.

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I have a question on co-dependency.

> >

> > My MIL is extremely co-dependent. She has a very co-dependent relationship

> > with her daughter. My SIL is 32 years old, lives with my MIL and doesn't do

> > anything without her. The relationship has kept my SIL from moving out and

> > having a life of her own. My MIL is also a master of guilt trips and is

> > extremely passive-aggressive. I am worried that my MIL is starting to

> > become co-dependent when it comes to my daughter and is in a way

> > conditioning her for it. My daughter is 3 years old and has always been

> > very confident and tries to be as independent as a 3 year old can be.

> > Recently, whenever she has come home from visiting my MIL she says things

> > are scary or will just randomly say she's scared for no reason. She also

> > has been saying she can't do things when before she has always had a " can

> > do " attitude that my husband and I encouraged. She also gets very clingy

> > with my MIL when she is around her. She acts very reserved, passive and shy

> > when she is normally very social and outgoing. When other relatives that my

> > daughter is also close to come around when my MIL is present she acts like

> > she is afraid of them. When it's time to go home she doesn't want to leave

> > and throws a screaming, crying fit and says she wants Granny. I know she

> > plays and has fun at her house but she also has 2 other sets of

> > grandparents that she is close to and has fun with and doesn't behave this

> > way around them. When she visits her other Grandparents she acts like the

> > strong-willed, confident kid that I recognize and when it's time to leave

> > she happily hugs them and we go.

> >

> > Is my MIL conditioning my daughter for the co-dependent relationship that

> > she has created with her own children? Is that even possible or am I being

> > paranoid? I went NC with my nada a couple of years ago and I know I have

> > the tendency to over-analyze peoples behaviors at times. I just know my

> > daughter acts differently around my MIL and she acts differently around

> > other people when she is with my MIL. I know she is only 3 years old, and I

> > probably wouldn't be so worried if it weren't for the relationship my MIL

> > has with her own daughter. Am I reading to much into this or does it sound

> > like there is reason for concern?

> >

> > Thanks for any advice! I know this group is about BPD parents, but I feel

> > like we all know and some of us may even be experts when it comes to

> > co-dependency and I couldn't find a whole lot on this specific scenario any

> > where else.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> **

>

>

> Thank you everyone for the advice so far!

>

> Jen H,

>

> I think you are right with the infantilizing. That makes a lot of sense

> and probably explains why my perfectly capable SIL acts like she's 10 years

> old when it comes to most situations.

>

> My MIL definitely creates dependency. She doesn't really put people down

> at least that I have seen, but she is very good at making people feel sorry

> for her and goes back and forth between " I need you/you need me " . She plays

> the " you need me " card with my SIL, but plays the " I need you " card with my

> husband. I believe she is doing both with my daughter. She is great at

> giving guilt trips. She guilts my husband in to doing things for her. He is

> afraid to ever put his foot down because he doesn't want to upset her or

> hurt her feelings. He is aware and will be the first to admit this, but

> does nothing about it.

>

> As far as what my husband thinks about my daughters behavior after

> spending time with my MIL, he just thinks that my daughter is close to her

> and has a lot of fun at her house and that's why she doesn't want to leave.

> He thinks our daughter is just being a normal 3 year old. So he definitely

> has had me second guessing my feelings and instincts. I have a younger son

> and have heard my MIL tell my daughter that she is her favorite and my

> husband doesn't think much of it. Says she is just playing, where as I find

> it very wrong. When I try to talk to him about his family or put distance

> between his family and ours he thinks it's because I just don't like them.

> He doesn't see things like I do. It definitely has put a strain on our

> relationship. I want to protect our kids and have them grow up confident

> and full of self esteem. Something I did not have as a child. So when I see

> my daughter do the opposite, red flags pop up. My husband thinks I'm overly

> sensitive because of my childhood.

>

> As a compromise, instead of limiting contact between MIL and our daughter,

> we have just stopped leaving her alone at MIL's house that way we can

> monitor what is being said and done.

>

> Thanks again for all the advice! I welcome anymore you may have.

>

>

It sounds like your husband is in a bit of denial about his mother's

behavior, which is unfortunate -- but you're probably not going to do

anything to shake him out of it. But Granny is definitely out of line with

the playing favorites stuff -- she seems to be trying to create a parasitic

emotional relationship with your daughter, to monopolize her affections.

( " Enmeshment " is a very good term for what she's probably after, as svaktshka

said. " Emotional Fusion " is another way of putting it.) She probably won't

succeed since your daughter has other better role models, but I think

you're definitely being wise to monitor her interactions with your MIL. I

would suggest counteracting any suggestions that your MIL makes to your

daughter about her competence with nice strong affirmative ones about how

grown up, sensible, and capable your daughter is (for her age, of course.)

I don't know if three years is too young to start having a discussion about

why playing favorites is a bad thing for Granny to do, but at some point

you might want to try explaining to your daughter that Granny declaring her

a favorite is likely to make her brother feel very bad and unhappy and that

it's not a very nice thing for Granny to do to him. In general I think the

best antidote to bad information (like " That's too dangerous for you " when

it's not, or " I'm the only one you can trust " when that's not the case, or

" You're so much more special than your brother " , which is never a good

message to give a child) is to provide more and better information. " I know

you can handle that, " if it's age appropriate, " Not everyone is

trustworthy, but many people are, and these are some of them " , and

" Everyone is special in a unique way, with strong and weak points, and

everyone deserves equal respect for their individual qualities -- no one is

fundamentally MORE special than anyone else. "

Good luck with it. I'm very glad you're aware of this stuff and looking out

for your daughter like this, even if your husband is determined to be

oblivious.

-- Jen H.