failing at this limit-setting thing...

[Guest guest]

I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he always

manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk to

ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if you

have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

[Guest guest]

Hi Newlife, what kind of tricks does he do to get you to talk to him after

you've set a boundary? As for advice, the hard truth I've learned is there is

no cost free boundary setting - if you set it they will retaliate and try to get

around it. You just have to decide if it is worth it to you to hold the line

and pay the cost. If you can hold out though the resistance behavior will

eventually extinguish though he probably will always resent the boundary.

Still I know it is hard. There are many boundaries I would like to set but know

right now I cannot handle what the response would be.

Oh here's one practical tip - if you get a voicemail from him respond with an

email (if he's on email) or even a text. This reduces the intensity. Also

always build in delay, even if you do respond don't do so right away - they hate

that and it will cause him to contact you less (possibly).

Eliza

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Newlife, what kind of tricks does he do to get you to talk to him after

you've set a boundary? As for advice, the hard truth I've learned is there is

no cost free boundary setting - if you set it they will retaliate and try to get

around it. You just have to decide if it is worth it to you to hold the line

and pay the cost. If you can hold out though the resistance behavior will

eventually extinguish though he probably will always resent the boundary.

Still I know it is hard. There are many boundaries I would like to set but know

right now I cannot handle what the response would be.

Oh here's one practical tip - if you get a voicemail from him respond with an

email (if he's on email) or even a text. This reduces the intensity. Also

always build in delay, even if you do respond don't do so right away - they hate

that and it will cause him to contact you less (possibly).

Eliza

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe try this idea:

Set your phone(s) preferences so that ALL incoming calls go directly to

voicemail.

Screen all your calls. Check your list of voice messages X times a day to see

who called you and just return the calls that aren't from fada.

You phone your fada once a week, at a specific time you select, on the day you

select for a duration of time you find tolerable. Me personally, I wouldn't

even listen to the messages he leaves. You can discuss whatever was on his mind

during your weekly call. The moment he begins to becomes abusive: mean,

critical, sarcastic, calls you ugly names, makes false accusation, piles on the

FOG, etc., that's when the phone call ends. Interrupt him; talk over him and

say something like, " Sorry dad but I'm not going to listen to you when you

(insert abusive behavior here.) We can try talking together again next week. "

The theme of this strategy is " I choose when or if to speak to my fada from now

on; he doesn't get to choose. "

And no, it isn't easy. We were trained from birth by these people to not be

assertive, to not stand up and protect ourselves, but instead to defer to them

and obey them, so its like trying to swim up a waterfall to change our own

(subservient) way of relating to them (The King or The Queen) but its doable

for a lot of us KOs. My Sister was able to become calmly and firmly assertive

with our nada, but I wasn't. I ended up having to go totally No Contact with my

nada because I wasn't able to just stand up to her, and it got to a point where

just hearing my nada's voice was making me literally physically ill (I'd get off

the phone with her and have an attack of debilitating symptoms very like

Meniere's Disease.) So, I chose NC for the sake of my own well being.

So, whatever works for you is fine, and its OK to try and fail, and try again,

and its OK to try something else instead. This is all about finding what works

best for YOU, now.

-Annie

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe try this idea:

Set your phone(s) preferences so that ALL incoming calls go directly to

voicemail.

Screen all your calls. Check your list of voice messages X times a day to see

who called you and just return the calls that aren't from fada.

You phone your fada once a week, at a specific time you select, on the day you

select for a duration of time you find tolerable. Me personally, I wouldn't

even listen to the messages he leaves. You can discuss whatever was on his mind

during your weekly call. The moment he begins to becomes abusive: mean,

critical, sarcastic, calls you ugly names, makes false accusation, piles on the

FOG, etc., that's when the phone call ends. Interrupt him; talk over him and

say something like, " Sorry dad but I'm not going to listen to you when you

(insert abusive behavior here.) We can try talking together again next week. "

The theme of this strategy is " I choose when or if to speak to my fada from now

on; he doesn't get to choose. "

And no, it isn't easy. We were trained from birth by these people to not be

assertive, to not stand up and protect ourselves, but instead to defer to them

and obey them, so its like trying to swim up a waterfall to change our own

(subservient) way of relating to them (The King or The Queen) but its doable

for a lot of us KOs. My Sister was able to become calmly and firmly assertive

with our nada, but I wasn't. I ended up having to go totally No Contact with my

nada because I wasn't able to just stand up to her, and it got to a point where

just hearing my nada's voice was making me literally physically ill (I'd get off

the phone with her and have an attack of debilitating symptoms very like

Meniere's Disease.) So, I chose NC for the sake of my own well being.

So, whatever works for you is fine, and its OK to try and fail, and try again,

and its OK to try something else instead. This is all about finding what works

best for YOU, now.

-Annie

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Newlife,

It's so hard to fight off Nada/Fada tactics because they have brainwashed us

from birth and they are experts at getting to us. Even just the sound of their

voice on a message can be too much to handle. I found the only way I could take

back control was to go strictly limited contact with my Nada, she can only

contact me by email and I will only speak with her in person if her therapist is

present, no phones at all. The email puts much needed emotional distance between

her and I and I have total control over when, how or even if I respond. It also

helps document her abusive language and compeltely illogical rants.

It seems in your case that any direct contact with your fada even on the phone

is too much right now. I realize not everyone has access to a joint therapy

session with their nada/fada but if you do feel it necessary to talk with him in

person or on the phone, perhaps you can include a close friend or family member

who understands what you are going through and can help you stand up to your

fada and intervene on your behalf. They can help you ward off his manipulative

attempts and also help validate you. That person could also help you get out of

there or hang up if it's getting out of control and be there to support you

while you work through your emotions. For instance, when fada starts to try and

twist your words around the other person can help stay on topic and assert what

you really said. If there is no such person in your life right now, I think

going no contact or at least stricly email contact might help you gain some

distance and perspective, a chance to catch your breath and devise a plan you

really feel you can stick to. If there is any way for you to get therapy for

yourself I really can't encourage that enough. I think therapy would really

help you.

You have the right to a happy, peaceful life free from abuse. You deserve to be

happy and safe. You are your first priority.

Strength and peace to you!

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Newlife,

It's so hard to fight off Nada/Fada tactics because they have brainwashed us

from birth and they are experts at getting to us. Even just the sound of their

voice on a message can be too much to handle. I found the only way I could take

back control was to go strictly limited contact with my Nada, she can only

contact me by email and I will only speak with her in person if her therapist is

present, no phones at all. The email puts much needed emotional distance between

her and I and I have total control over when, how or even if I respond. It also

helps document her abusive language and compeltely illogical rants.

It seems in your case that any direct contact with your fada even on the phone

is too much right now. I realize not everyone has access to a joint therapy

session with their nada/fada but if you do feel it necessary to talk with him in

person or on the phone, perhaps you can include a close friend or family member

who understands what you are going through and can help you stand up to your

fada and intervene on your behalf. They can help you ward off his manipulative

attempts and also help validate you. That person could also help you get out of

there or hang up if it's getting out of control and be there to support you

while you work through your emotions. For instance, when fada starts to try and

twist your words around the other person can help stay on topic and assert what

you really said. If there is no such person in your life right now, I think

going no contact or at least stricly email contact might help you gain some

distance and perspective, a chance to catch your breath and devise a plan you

really feel you can stick to. If there is any way for you to get therapy for

yourself I really can't encourage that enough. I think therapy would really

help you.

You have the right to a happy, peaceful life free from abuse. You deserve to be

happy and safe. You are your first priority.

Strength and peace to you!

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Newlife,

It's so hard to fight off Nada/Fada tactics because they have brainwashed us

from birth and they are experts at getting to us. Even just the sound of their

voice on a message can be too much to handle. I found the only way I could take

back control was to go strictly limited contact with my Nada, she can only

contact me by email and I will only speak with her in person if her therapist is

present, no phones at all. The email puts much needed emotional distance between

her and I and I have total control over when, how or even if I respond. It also

helps document her abusive language and compeltely illogical rants.

It seems in your case that any direct contact with your fada even on the phone

is too much right now. I realize not everyone has access to a joint therapy

session with their nada/fada but if you do feel it necessary to talk with him in

person or on the phone, perhaps you can include a close friend or family member

who understands what you are going through and can help you stand up to your

fada and intervene on your behalf. They can help you ward off his manipulative

attempts and also help validate you. That person could also help you get out of

there or hang up if it's getting out of control and be there to support you

while you work through your emotions. For instance, when fada starts to try and

twist your words around the other person can help stay on topic and assert what

you really said. If there is no such person in your life right now, I think

going no contact or at least stricly email contact might help you gain some

distance and perspective, a chance to catch your breath and devise a plan you

really feel you can stick to. If there is any way for you to get therapy for

yourself I really can't encourage that enough. I think therapy would really

help you.

You have the right to a happy, peaceful life free from abuse. You deserve to be

happy and safe. You are your first priority.

Strength and peace to you!

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Boundaries are for changing us, not for changing other people.

By that I mean that we can't control what other people do, but when we know what

our boundaries are, we can control how we respond. If we expect a BPD to respect

our boundaries, that is not realistic, because they are just not capable of

caring about what we need. They will continue to use us as long as we allow them

to.

So it's not just, " Please stop calling me names; " it's hanging up WHEN they call

you names. It's not just, " I don't want to talk every day; "

it's " I will only answer the phone once a week. If you call more than that, I

will not answer the next week. If you leave critical or abusive messages on my

machine, I will block your number. " We have to be willing to protect our

boundaries by enforcing consequences, or else people will see that we don't mean

what we say.

How have you tried to do things in the past? What do you think makes it

difficult to enforce? Is it FOG?

Sveta

[Guest guest]

Hi,

It really helps me to keep my boundaries in place by not allowing communication

to go south in the first place. (Cuz she always tries to poke, prod, provoke,

insult, devalue, etc) One thing that helps me is hold boundaries is to maintain

my cool and stay in control. I use positive self talk to reinforce my good,

healthy decisions. " I know that I set these boundaries when I was calm, cool

headed, thoughtful and reflective. These boundaries are good for my life and I

will continue to enforce them. " " I will respond not react. " " I am in control of

myself. " " I set the boundary of < > that behavior of hers < > is crossing the

line. "

I also use a visible and tangible reminder while I'm on the phone. I keep a

little note in my purse that I wrote and pull it out when I end up on the phone

with her (she always calls at the worse times.) It says " J A D E . " I have to

really think hard while in the middle of an encounter with Nada to remember what

it stands for. These few focused moments helps me calm down, relax, and center

myself to stay in medium chill. It stands for justify, argue, deny, engage. It

helps prompt my self talk reminders " I can only control my own behavior and I do

not have to react these ways. " I am able to identify her assault tactics and put

a name to my reactions (justify, argue, deny, engage) and deflect/respond to

them _while_ being confronted with them. (SO empowering for me) No, I'm not

perfect at it yet, but am getting better and gaining confidence (or is it that

may be her behavior is not as bad since I don't allow my buttons to be pushed?)

I find that having a little reminder in my hand in front of me helps me to stay

strong when the BP behavior starts thrashing at my boundaries...and it always

starts.

I don't listen to the voice messages anymore either. I just delete them. And

I am clear that I don't listen to them. " Did you get my message " she always asks

and I just say " No. But I saw you called so I just thought I'd call back instead

of listening to it. " Sometimes she'll challenge me " Why don't you listen to my

messages? " " I just say " I just figured I'd call you back instead since you'll

tell me all about it again anyhow. So, what's up? " And I only call back on MY

time, when _I_ am in a good place (emotionally.)

I email important things so they are dated, in black and white, and we both

have a copy for future reference. If we are going to have a

sit-down-family-meeting (she tries to hold court) to discuss items, I email my

issues in outline form before the meeting. And then I place it in front of me (I

write J A D E on mine at the top!) and place it in front of her when we do sit

down to " discuss " some " items " (boundaries, behaviors, upcoming plans and events

like Mother's Day.) If we had something I find important, I'll email a follow up

reiterating the important part as well. But I only put it in positive terms so

that there is nothing for her to complain about or to argue with or belittle me

with. Even tho, we all know, Nada will try.

My husbands two cents are that the above techniques don't fix it, ever. But it

does help interactions to be manageable. That's all I'm aiming for right

now...manage it.

Best of luck to all of us!!

[Guest guest]

A couple suggestions for you

1. Read the book " Safe People " by Cloud and Townsend

2. Block his number and accept no calls from him. Period. Anyone who

acts in such a way on the phone that you have to miss work, forfiets the

priviledge. Change your number if necessary.

3. Consider going NC with him. It sounds as if his behavior is abusive

in the extreme, and you still have major issues with it. Until you are

healed and recovered to be sufficiently strong to deal with him, he is

always going to be able to FOG you into a bad place. Cut off contact

with him and work through some of the pain with a good therapist.

BPD s will never, ever, ever, ever, ever ever, did I mention EVER?

respect YOUR boundaries. You must always be the adult in the room. If

you don t enforce them, they don t exist. Enforcing them is painful,

and involves things we would rather not do. But do them we must. If we

don t enforce boundaries with our BP parent, we exist simply as a tumor

on thier side, to be prodded for whatever they require of us from time

to time, and ignored otherwise.

Like the old joke about the man who goes to see a Dr. He takes off his

hat, and there is a frog growing out of the top of his head! How long

has this been going on? asks the Dr. " Well, says the frog, " It started

as a wart on my ass. "

Set boundaries. Don t be a wart on anyones ass.

Sent with tongue pressed firmly to cheek:

Doug

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but

he always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going

crazy and self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping

because of the hold he has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone

calls. I keep TRYING to set limits but I don't know what's wrong with

me...I just can't bring myself to do it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses

to talk to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call

from him I've literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for

messages. I want to set a limit that says that his behavior is way to

unpredictable and stressful for me, and I can only talk to him once/wk.

I've tried this over, and over, and over and he's used every little

trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple

setbacks)...if you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

A couple suggestions for you

1. Read the book " Safe People " by Cloud and Townsend

2. Block his number and accept no calls from him. Period. Anyone who

acts in such a way on the phone that you have to miss work, forfiets the

priviledge. Change your number if necessary.

3. Consider going NC with him. It sounds as if his behavior is abusive

in the extreme, and you still have major issues with it. Until you are

healed and recovered to be sufficiently strong to deal with him, he is

always going to be able to FOG you into a bad place. Cut off contact

with him and work through some of the pain with a good therapist.

BPD s will never, ever, ever, ever, ever ever, did I mention EVER?

respect YOUR boundaries. You must always be the adult in the room. If

you don t enforce them, they don t exist. Enforcing them is painful,

and involves things we would rather not do. But do them we must. If we

don t enforce boundaries with our BP parent, we exist simply as a tumor

on thier side, to be prodded for whatever they require of us from time

to time, and ignored otherwise.

Like the old joke about the man who goes to see a Dr. He takes off his

hat, and there is a frog growing out of the top of his head! How long

has this been going on? asks the Dr. " Well, says the frog, " It started

as a wart on my ass. "

Set boundaries. Don t be a wart on anyones ass.

Sent with tongue pressed firmly to cheek:

Doug

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but

he always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going

crazy and self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping

because of the hold he has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone

calls. I keep TRYING to set limits but I don't know what's wrong with

me...I just can't bring myself to do it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses

to talk to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call

from him I've literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for

messages. I want to set a limit that says that his behavior is way to

unpredictable and stressful for me, and I can only talk to him once/wk.

I've tried this over, and over, and over and he's used every little

trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple

setbacks)...if you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

A couple suggestions for you

1. Read the book " Safe People " by Cloud and Townsend

2. Block his number and accept no calls from him. Period. Anyone who

acts in such a way on the phone that you have to miss work, forfiets the

priviledge. Change your number if necessary.

3. Consider going NC with him. It sounds as if his behavior is abusive

in the extreme, and you still have major issues with it. Until you are

healed and recovered to be sufficiently strong to deal with him, he is

always going to be able to FOG you into a bad place. Cut off contact

with him and work through some of the pain with a good therapist.

BPD s will never, ever, ever, ever, ever ever, did I mention EVER?

respect YOUR boundaries. You must always be the adult in the room. If

you don t enforce them, they don t exist. Enforcing them is painful,

and involves things we would rather not do. But do them we must. If we

don t enforce boundaries with our BP parent, we exist simply as a tumor

on thier side, to be prodded for whatever they require of us from time

to time, and ignored otherwise.

Like the old joke about the man who goes to see a Dr. He takes off his

hat, and there is a frog growing out of the top of his head! How long

has this been going on? asks the Dr. " Well, says the frog, " It started

as a wart on my ass. "

Set boundaries. Don t be a wart on anyones ass.

Sent with tongue pressed firmly to cheek:

Doug

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but

he always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going

crazy and self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping

because of the hold he has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone

calls. I keep TRYING to set limits but I don't know what's wrong with

me...I just can't bring myself to do it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses

to talk to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call

from him I've literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for

messages. I want to set a limit that says that his behavior is way to

unpredictable and stressful for me, and I can only talk to him once/wk.

I've tried this over, and over, and over and he's used every little

trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple

setbacks)...if you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone. I've tried setting limits in the past on communication. In

fact, the last text I sent him, about a week ago, was about me not tolerating

his needy behavior (of course, in different terms) anymore, so i think he knows

something is up. He hasn't contacted me since because he LOVES the power of

silent treatment. In the past, I have set more emphasized limits over email,

like " I only feel comfortable talking to you 2x/week " which he of course, hated,

and emailed back tirades, and respected for at least a month or two...then of

course, we're back.

So I know the limits can work for me, although I also know I haven't been the

best about enforcing them in the past, and so does he.

Thanks for all the advice. I think I might call later tonight or tomorrow

morning and try for the millionth time to put things on my terms...

>

> Boundaries are for changing us, not for changing other people.

>

> By that I mean that we can't control what other people do, but when we know

what our boundaries are, we can control how we respond. If we expect a BPD to

respect our boundaries, that is not realistic, because they are just not capable

of caring about what we need. They will continue to use us as long as we allow

them to.

>

> So it's not just, " Please stop calling me names; " it's hanging up WHEN they

call you names. It's not just, " I don't want to talk every day; "

> it's " I will only answer the phone once a week. If you call more than that, I

will not answer the next week. If you leave critical or abusive messages on my

machine, I will block your number. " We have to be willing to protect our

boundaries by enforcing consequences, or else people will see that we don't mean

what we say.

>

> How have you tried to do things in the past? What do you think makes it

difficult to enforce? Is it FOG?

>

> Sveta

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone. I've tried setting limits in the past on communication. In

fact, the last text I sent him, about a week ago, was about me not tolerating

his needy behavior (of course, in different terms) anymore, so i think he knows

something is up. He hasn't contacted me since because he LOVES the power of

silent treatment. In the past, I have set more emphasized limits over email,

like " I only feel comfortable talking to you 2x/week " which he of course, hated,

and emailed back tirades, and respected for at least a month or two...then of

course, we're back.

So I know the limits can work for me, although I also know I haven't been the

best about enforcing them in the past, and so does he.

Thanks for all the advice. I think I might call later tonight or tomorrow

morning and try for the millionth time to put things on my terms...

>

> Boundaries are for changing us, not for changing other people.

>

> By that I mean that we can't control what other people do, but when we know

what our boundaries are, we can control how we respond. If we expect a BPD to

respect our boundaries, that is not realistic, because they are just not capable

of caring about what we need. They will continue to use us as long as we allow

them to.

>

> So it's not just, " Please stop calling me names; " it's hanging up WHEN they

call you names. It's not just, " I don't want to talk every day; "

> it's " I will only answer the phone once a week. If you call more than that, I

will not answer the next week. If you leave critical or abusive messages on my

machine, I will block your number. " We have to be willing to protect our

boundaries by enforcing consequences, or else people will see that we don't mean

what we say.

>

> How have you tried to do things in the past? What do you think makes it

difficult to enforce? Is it FOG?

>

> Sveta

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone. I've tried setting limits in the past on communication. In

fact, the last text I sent him, about a week ago, was about me not tolerating

his needy behavior (of course, in different terms) anymore, so i think he knows

something is up. He hasn't contacted me since because he LOVES the power of

silent treatment. In the past, I have set more emphasized limits over email,

like " I only feel comfortable talking to you 2x/week " which he of course, hated,

and emailed back tirades, and respected for at least a month or two...then of

course, we're back.

So I know the limits can work for me, although I also know I haven't been the

best about enforcing them in the past, and so does he.

Thanks for all the advice. I think I might call later tonight or tomorrow

morning and try for the millionth time to put things on my terms...

>

> Boundaries are for changing us, not for changing other people.

>

> By that I mean that we can't control what other people do, but when we know

what our boundaries are, we can control how we respond. If we expect a BPD to

respect our boundaries, that is not realistic, because they are just not capable

of caring about what we need. They will continue to use us as long as we allow

them to.

>

> So it's not just, " Please stop calling me names; " it's hanging up WHEN they

call you names. It's not just, " I don't want to talk every day; "

> it's " I will only answer the phone once a week. If you call more than that, I

will not answer the next week. If you leave critical or abusive messages on my

machine, I will block your number. " We have to be willing to protect our

boundaries by enforcing consequences, or else people will see that we don't mean

what we say.

>

> How have you tried to do things in the past? What do you think makes it

difficult to enforce? Is it FOG?

>

> Sveta

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you are getting hung up in the unrealistic expectation that your pd

father will understand and comply with your boundary(ies) or rules if you can

just explain them the " right " way.

As though, if you can just find the right words to convey your feelings and your

boundary really clearly, you will hear your pd father say, " Oh! OK. I get it.

Of course, you are right, and I won't (behavior X) any more, dear. " You want

him to understand and comply willingly so that you don't actually have to

enforce the boundary.

It usually work that way with emotionally healthy, non-personality-disordered

people, but not those with bpd.

Instead, in order to make your boundary work with a personality-disorderd

parent, you have to *stay in the moment* and enforce your boundary *in the

moment.* And you will have to do it over and over and over again, with

escalating consequences. (Because the person with bpd is a lot like a two year

old child who keeps testing you, and testing you and testing you to see if the

rule you gave them is for real or if they can wiggle through it.)

I'm guessing that that is what is hanging you up. You don't want to be the " bad

guy " and tell your pd father " NO! " and give him a consequence over and over

again. But he knows how to " work " you, how to push every one of your buttons,

and which buttons work best (because he installed them.) So he is really good

at FOGging you: using Fear, Obligation, and Guilt on you to make you bend and

then drop your boundaries.

We KOs (adult Kids Of pd parents) are operating at an ENORMOUS disadvantage in

this regard: establishing normal adult emotional separation and autonomy from

our pd parents, because (a) human beings are hardwired to want to be emotionally

close to our own parents ( we have been trained from birth to obey and defer

to our parents and © personality disordered parents tend to enmesh and exploit

their own children because that is a key aspect of what personality disorder

*is*: dysfunctional interpersonal relationships. The closer the relationship,

the more abnormal and dysfunctional it is.

Even relatively normal, mentally healthy parents can have a hard time letting go

of their fledgling adult children so the young adult can have his or her own

life. For personality disordered parents, it would appear this is virtually

impossible. Instead the totally self-absorbed pd parent conditions his or her

child to never even dream of claiming their birthright, which is the birthright

of every human being: to be a self-confident, self actualized, responsible

adult, to enjoy fulfilling, loving adult relationships and eventually have a

family of your own.

So, I hope that my long-winded response will help you in some way, perhaps by

showing the issue from a different perspective.

I hope you will keep trying until you can find a method or system that will work

for you RE your pd father, and that you can drop any and all inappropriate and

misplaced guilt you may be feeling for just wanting what every adult wants: your

own life. Keep reminding yourself that you are NOT responsible for your pd

father's feelings, those are his own to carry.

-Annie

> >

> > Boundaries are for changing us, not for changing other people.

> >

> > By that I mean that we can't control what other people do, but when we know

what our boundaries are, we can control how we respond. If we expect a BPD to

respect our boundaries, that is not realistic, because they are just not capable

of caring about what we need. They will continue to use us as long as we allow

them to.

> >

> > So it's not just, " Please stop calling me names; " it's hanging up WHEN they

call you names. It's not just, " I don't want to talk every day; "

> > it's " I will only answer the phone once a week. If you call more than that,

I will not answer the next week. If you leave critical or abusive messages on my

machine, I will block your number. " We have to be willing to protect our

boundaries by enforcing consequences, or else people will see that we don't mean

what we say.

> >

> > How have you tried to do things in the past? What do you think makes it

difficult to enforce? Is it FOG?

> >

> > Sveta

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you are getting hung up in the unrealistic expectation that your pd

father will understand and comply with your boundary(ies) or rules if you can

just explain them the " right " way.

As though, if you can just find the right words to convey your feelings and your

boundary really clearly, you will hear your pd father say, " Oh! OK. I get it.

Of course, you are right, and I won't (behavior X) any more, dear. " You want

him to understand and comply willingly so that you don't actually have to

enforce the boundary.

It usually work that way with emotionally healthy, non-personality-disordered

people, but not those with bpd.

Instead, in order to make your boundary work with a personality-disorderd

parent, you have to *stay in the moment* and enforce your boundary *in the

moment.* And you will have to do it over and over and over again, with

escalating consequences. (Because the person with bpd is a lot like a two year

old child who keeps testing you, and testing you and testing you to see if the

rule you gave them is for real or if they can wiggle through it.)

I'm guessing that that is what is hanging you up. You don't want to be the " bad

guy " and tell your pd father " NO! " and give him a consequence over and over

again. But he knows how to " work " you, how to push every one of your buttons,

and which buttons work best (because he installed them.) So he is really good

at FOGging you: using Fear, Obligation, and Guilt on you to make you bend and

then drop your boundaries.

We KOs (adult Kids Of pd parents) are operating at an ENORMOUS disadvantage in

this regard: establishing normal adult emotional separation and autonomy from

our pd parents, because (a) human beings are hardwired to want to be emotionally

close to our own parents ( we have been trained from birth to obey and defer

to our parents and © personality disordered parents tend to enmesh and exploit

their own children because that is a key aspect of what personality disorder

*is*: dysfunctional interpersonal relationships. The closer the relationship,

the more abnormal and dysfunctional it is.

Even relatively normal, mentally healthy parents can have a hard time letting go

of their fledgling adult children so the young adult can have his or her own

life. For personality disordered parents, it would appear this is virtually

impossible. Instead the totally self-absorbed pd parent conditions his or her

child to never even dream of claiming their birthright, which is the birthright

of every human being: to be a self-confident, self actualized, responsible

adult, to enjoy fulfilling, loving adult relationships and eventually have a

family of your own.

So, I hope that my long-winded response will help you in some way, perhaps by

showing the issue from a different perspective.

I hope you will keep trying until you can find a method or system that will work

for you RE your pd father, and that you can drop any and all inappropriate and

misplaced guilt you may be feeling for just wanting what every adult wants: your

own life. Keep reminding yourself that you are NOT responsible for your pd

father's feelings, those are his own to carry.

-Annie

> >

> > Boundaries are for changing us, not for changing other people.

> >

> > By that I mean that we can't control what other people do, but when we know

what our boundaries are, we can control how we respond. If we expect a BPD to

respect our boundaries, that is not realistic, because they are just not capable

of caring about what we need. They will continue to use us as long as we allow

them to.

> >

> > So it's not just, " Please stop calling me names; " it's hanging up WHEN they

call you names. It's not just, " I don't want to talk every day; "

> > it's " I will only answer the phone once a week. If you call more than that,

I will not answer the next week. If you leave critical or abusive messages on my

machine, I will block your number. " We have to be willing to protect our

boundaries by enforcing consequences, or else people will see that we don't mean

what we say.

> >

> > How have you tried to do things in the past? What do you think makes it

difficult to enforce? Is it FOG?

> >

> > Sveta

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you are getting hung up in the unrealistic expectation that your pd

father will understand and comply with your boundary(ies) or rules if you can

just explain them the " right " way.

As though, if you can just find the right words to convey your feelings and your

boundary really clearly, you will hear your pd father say, " Oh! OK. I get it.

Of course, you are right, and I won't (behavior X) any more, dear. " You want

him to understand and comply willingly so that you don't actually have to

enforce the boundary.

It usually work that way with emotionally healthy, non-personality-disordered

people, but not those with bpd.

Instead, in order to make your boundary work with a personality-disorderd

parent, you have to *stay in the moment* and enforce your boundary *in the

moment.* And you will have to do it over and over and over again, with

escalating consequences. (Because the person with bpd is a lot like a two year

old child who keeps testing you, and testing you and testing you to see if the

rule you gave them is for real or if they can wiggle through it.)

I'm guessing that that is what is hanging you up. You don't want to be the " bad

guy " and tell your pd father " NO! " and give him a consequence over and over

again. But he knows how to " work " you, how to push every one of your buttons,

and which buttons work best (because he installed them.) So he is really good

at FOGging you: using Fear, Obligation, and Guilt on you to make you bend and

then drop your boundaries.

We KOs (adult Kids Of pd parents) are operating at an ENORMOUS disadvantage in

this regard: establishing normal adult emotional separation and autonomy from

our pd parents, because (a) human beings are hardwired to want to be emotionally

close to our own parents ( we have been trained from birth to obey and defer

to our parents and © personality disordered parents tend to enmesh and exploit

their own children because that is a key aspect of what personality disorder

*is*: dysfunctional interpersonal relationships. The closer the relationship,

the more abnormal and dysfunctional it is.

Even relatively normal, mentally healthy parents can have a hard time letting go

of their fledgling adult children so the young adult can have his or her own

life. For personality disordered parents, it would appear this is virtually

impossible. Instead the totally self-absorbed pd parent conditions his or her

child to never even dream of claiming their birthright, which is the birthright

of every human being: to be a self-confident, self actualized, responsible

adult, to enjoy fulfilling, loving adult relationships and eventually have a

family of your own.

So, I hope that my long-winded response will help you in some way, perhaps by

showing the issue from a different perspective.

I hope you will keep trying until you can find a method or system that will work

for you RE your pd father, and that you can drop any and all inappropriate and

misplaced guilt you may be feeling for just wanting what every adult wants: your

own life. Keep reminding yourself that you are NOT responsible for your pd

father's feelings, those are his own to carry.

-Annie

> >

> > Boundaries are for changing us, not for changing other people.

> >

> > By that I mean that we can't control what other people do, but when we know

what our boundaries are, we can control how we respond. If we expect a BPD to

respect our boundaries, that is not realistic, because they are just not capable

of caring about what we need. They will continue to use us as long as we allow

them to.

> >

> > So it's not just, " Please stop calling me names; " it's hanging up WHEN they

call you names. It's not just, " I don't want to talk every day; "

> > it's " I will only answer the phone once a week. If you call more than that,

I will not answer the next week. If you leave critical or abusive messages on my

machine, I will block your number. " We have to be willing to protect our

boundaries by enforcing consequences, or else people will see that we don't mean

what we say.

> >

> > How have you tried to do things in the past? What do you think makes it

difficult to enforce? Is it FOG?

> >

> > Sveta

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie,I think you're right in saying that I'm expecting way too much out

of him, and I just need to set the limit. The more crazy stuff that happens

between fada and me, the more I realize I can't compromise.

Today I got a slip that there's certified mail waiting for me at the post

office. I tracked the slip and it's from my zip code. I'm thinking I won't pick

it up...I would hate communication with fada to come down to passive-agressive

" did-you - read- my tirade-against -you-yet " communication. Gah. Going crazy!!!

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie,I think you're right in saying that I'm expecting way too much out

of him, and I just need to set the limit. The more crazy stuff that happens

between fada and me, the more I realize I can't compromise.

Today I got a slip that there's certified mail waiting for me at the post

office. I tracked the slip and it's from my zip code. I'm thinking I won't pick

it up...I would hate communication with fada to come down to passive-agressive

" did-you - read- my tirade-against -you-yet " communication. Gah. Going crazy!!!

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie,I think you're right in saying that I'm expecting way too much out

of him, and I just need to set the limit. The more crazy stuff that happens

between fada and me, the more I realize I can't compromise.

Today I got a slip that there's certified mail waiting for me at the post

office. I tracked the slip and it's from my zip code. I'm thinking I won't pick

it up...I would hate communication with fada to come down to passive-agressive

" did-you - read- my tirade-against -you-yet " communication. Gah. Going crazy!!!

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>

[Guest guest]

You prolly go back to fada because of the same reasons I go back to my Nada.

 We feel guilt in our minds for not being a part of their lives.  We envision

how we want it to be but it just is not that way when we make contact or get to

close to our problem parents.  I always worry about Nada being alone and no one

to help her.  She chose to move away from her entire family.  So I allow

contact because I feel guilty.  What I realized after this weekend is that when

I do not see her or come around her everything is fine and the problems start

subsiding.  You can not allow some one to make you feel bad almost every time

you are around them.  You are missing work not eating and not sleeping

properly, which to me says a lot.   You broke your telephone so they could not

call you or you could not get messages...you pay for the phone so you get to

choose whom you want to speak with.  You are causing yourself some serious

problems that could lead to

worse things if you do not make changes and fast.  Self destructive behavior

is not healthy for you and your mental health.  Time to make some serious

decisions about who you allow to cause this destruction in your life.  I have

to close off from my Nada.  And you need to close off from your fada.  Do not

tell him just do not make contact, answer phones, or attend family events you

know he will be present at.  Time to find your own peace without him around.  

When you are happy in life and with yourself and other friends and family you

can find your own peace.  Do not allow anyone to make you feel this type of

behavior as it is not healthy or good for you.  If this self destructive

behavior continues I suggest seeing a mental health professional or a doctor.  

Subject: Re: failing at this limit-setting thing...

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Saturday, May 12, 2012, 4:45 PM

 

Thanks Annie,I think you're right in saying that I'm expecting way too

much out of him, and I just need to set the limit. The more crazy stuff that

happens between fada and me, the more I realize I can't compromise.

Today I got a slip that there's certified mail waiting for me at the post

office. I tracked the slip and it's from my zip code. I'm thinking I won't pick

it up...I would hate communication with fada to come down to passive-agressive

" did-you - read- my tirade-against -you-yet " communication. Gah. Going crazy!!!

>

> I've tried over and over to set limits on communicating with fada but he

always manages to pull me back into his whirlwind! I've been going crazy and

self-medicating and panicking and not eating and sleeping because of the hold he

has on me. I've missed work from the rough phone calls. I keep TRYING to set

limits but I don't know what's wrong with me...I just can't bring myself to do

it and follow through once I do.

>

> Now is the perfect time to set a limit yet again because Fada refuses to talk

to ME now (exerting his power etc). I'm so nervous from a call from him I've

literally taken my phone apart so I can't check for messages. I want to set a

limit that says that his behavior is way to unpredictable and stressful for me,

and I can only talk to him once/wk. I've tried this over, and over, and over and

he's used every little trick on me and I don't know how to get out of this once

and for all...

>

> anyone else who has set a limit (or set a limit with multiple setbacks)...if

you have advice , I could use it all!!! Thanks!!!

>