the gifts they give

[Guest guest]

I'm left having to act polite and thankful for a gift which just underscores

the amazing lack of genuine relationship there is. Depressing.

***********

An ongoing joke between my husband and I comes from a gift my Nada gave us a few

years ago. It was a sort of " gift basket " of random things, mostly foods I don't

like and self-help books on re-kindling a marriage that my DH and I found

downright insulting (we had only been married two months at that point). The

piece de resistance was a tin of Trader Joe's Peppermint Bark at the bottom of

the box, which opened to reveal two lonely pieces of bark in a ziploc baggie.

She had eaten the rest. We still hoot over that.

For many years, Nada would just ask me what I wanted for Christmas and put it in

the shopping cart directly in front of me. After checking out she would ask if I

wanted it right then or if she should go to the trouble of wrapping it. She also

liked to buy me clothing a size or two too small, though I like to pretend that

she's just a bad judge because she is so much shorter than I am (and I have to

pretend hard because she asks me my size every year and then gasps and says " You

can't be that big! " ).

It used to depress me or make me angry when I was younger, but now I mostly just

laugh about it. Buying her gifts was worse until I realized there is an

incredible freedom in knowing she will complain about whatever you buy.

It still pisses me off when she tries to take gifts we have carefully selected

for my brother and step-father for herself.

[Guest guest]

SevenL, I think it's important to understand nadas are coming from a place of

complete and uncontrollable need, and they do not think or act with intentions

that are recognizable to a non-bpd. Gifts from them are never a selfless act.

Although it may well be unconscious or not articulated, even to them, EVERY act

has a 'purpose' for them, and it is never about give and take communication or

love. A gift is never something meant to make the recipient feel good. Do

please do not feel confused if you don't. A gift is meant to make *nada feel

good.

This can get confusing. After years of second hand gifts, or things SHE likes,

or things she knows might offend you in a way that makes her feel good, she

might suddenly give you a perfect gift, that appears perfectly loving and

thoughtful and to your taste. If so, she is only doing that to prove she is a

great mother, and she never *really gave gifts to harm, slight or offend you

(which of course, she did). The good gift might come after you have accused

her, and she needs to split herself white. Or if you have a new romantic

partner, and she is trying to get them 'on her side' (ie, to believe you are the

evil one, not her). She may be trying to merge with you because you are doing

something she likes (recent partner, recent success, recent anger at a usually

split good sibling).

The bad gifts are to appease her. My nada would buy me ugly clothes to try and

enforce her need to prove *she was the fashionable one. She would buy me too

small clothes to try and enforce the need to show *she was the skinny one. None

of this had anything at all to do with my actual taste, or what I had asked for.

Another nada gift pattern is to ruin it for you if they actually do get what you

want. For example, if they are ordering a gift for you online, they will call

you up and ask you what size you need, and act confused about the workings of

the website or the layout of the store they have visited. Nadas will also use

gift giving to enforce the family black sheep versus good child. I had a sister

who would literally receive gifts worth thousands of dollars (and we were not

rich). I would get a sweater or an ugly candle. I wish I was not exaggerating.

Unless a KO has knowledge and belief that nada's intentions are selfish, a nada

can have a FIELD DAY with gift giving. Don't let her!

--Charlie

>

> Do any of you have problems with the gifts your nada tends to give you? For

me they are usually amazingly inappropriate in one way or another or else they

are something that she likes or collects, not that I do. I don't want to look

a gift horse in the mouth, but sometimes the gifts are just as depressing as not

getting anything. I'm left having to act polite and thankful for a gift which

just underscores the amazing lack of genuine relationship there is. Depressing.

>

> Lobster

>

> (and I still haven't figured out this alias trick as my email still shows the

same even though in profile I'm now sevenlobsters)

>

[Guest guest]

SevenL, I think it's important to understand nadas are coming from a place of

complete and uncontrollable need, and they do not think or act with intentions

that are recognizable to a non-bpd. Gifts from them are never a selfless act.

Although it may well be unconscious or not articulated, even to them, EVERY act

has a 'purpose' for them, and it is never about give and take communication or

love. A gift is never something meant to make the recipient feel good. Do

please do not feel confused if you don't. A gift is meant to make *nada feel

good.

This can get confusing. After years of second hand gifts, or things SHE likes,

or things she knows might offend you in a way that makes her feel good, she

might suddenly give you a perfect gift, that appears perfectly loving and

thoughtful and to your taste. If so, she is only doing that to prove she is a

great mother, and she never *really gave gifts to harm, slight or offend you

(which of course, she did). The good gift might come after you have accused

her, and she needs to split herself white. Or if you have a new romantic

partner, and she is trying to get them 'on her side' (ie, to believe you are the

evil one, not her). She may be trying to merge with you because you are doing

something she likes (recent partner, recent success, recent anger at a usually

split good sibling).

The bad gifts are to appease her. My nada would buy me ugly clothes to try and

enforce her need to prove *she was the fashionable one. She would buy me too

small clothes to try and enforce the need to show *she was the skinny one. None

of this had anything at all to do with my actual taste, or what I had asked for.

Another nada gift pattern is to ruin it for you if they actually do get what you

want. For example, if they are ordering a gift for you online, they will call

you up and ask you what size you need, and act confused about the workings of

the website or the layout of the store they have visited. Nadas will also use

gift giving to enforce the family black sheep versus good child. I had a sister

who would literally receive gifts worth thousands of dollars (and we were not

rich). I would get a sweater or an ugly candle. I wish I was not exaggerating.

Unless a KO has knowledge and belief that nada's intentions are selfish, a nada

can have a FIELD DAY with gift giving. Don't let her!

--Charlie

>

> Do any of you have problems with the gifts your nada tends to give you? For

me they are usually amazingly inappropriate in one way or another or else they

are something that she likes or collects, not that I do. I don't want to look

a gift horse in the mouth, but sometimes the gifts are just as depressing as not

getting anything. I'm left having to act polite and thankful for a gift which

just underscores the amazing lack of genuine relationship there is. Depressing.

>

> Lobster

>

> (and I still haven't figured out this alias trick as my email still shows the

same even though in profile I'm now sevenlobsters)

>

[Guest guest]

SevenL, I think it's important to understand nadas are coming from a place of

complete and uncontrollable need, and they do not think or act with intentions

that are recognizable to a non-bpd. Gifts from them are never a selfless act.

Although it may well be unconscious or not articulated, even to them, EVERY act

has a 'purpose' for them, and it is never about give and take communication or

love. A gift is never something meant to make the recipient feel good. Do

please do not feel confused if you don't. A gift is meant to make *nada feel

good.

This can get confusing. After years of second hand gifts, or things SHE likes,

or things she knows might offend you in a way that makes her feel good, she

might suddenly give you a perfect gift, that appears perfectly loving and

thoughtful and to your taste. If so, she is only doing that to prove she is a

great mother, and she never *really gave gifts to harm, slight or offend you

(which of course, she did). The good gift might come after you have accused

her, and she needs to split herself white. Or if you have a new romantic

partner, and she is trying to get them 'on her side' (ie, to believe you are the

evil one, not her). She may be trying to merge with you because you are doing

something she likes (recent partner, recent success, recent anger at a usually

split good sibling).

The bad gifts are to appease her. My nada would buy me ugly clothes to try and

enforce her need to prove *she was the fashionable one. She would buy me too

small clothes to try and enforce the need to show *she was the skinny one. None

of this had anything at all to do with my actual taste, or what I had asked for.

Another nada gift pattern is to ruin it for you if they actually do get what you

want. For example, if they are ordering a gift for you online, they will call

you up and ask you what size you need, and act confused about the workings of

the website or the layout of the store they have visited. Nadas will also use

gift giving to enforce the family black sheep versus good child. I had a sister

who would literally receive gifts worth thousands of dollars (and we were not

rich). I would get a sweater or an ugly candle. I wish I was not exaggerating.

Unless a KO has knowledge and belief that nada's intentions are selfish, a nada

can have a FIELD DAY with gift giving. Don't let her!

--Charlie

>

> Do any of you have problems with the gifts your nada tends to give you? For

me they are usually amazingly inappropriate in one way or another or else they

are something that she likes or collects, not that I do. I don't want to look

a gift horse in the mouth, but sometimes the gifts are just as depressing as not

getting anything. I'm left having to act polite and thankful for a gift which

just underscores the amazing lack of genuine relationship there is. Depressing.

>

> Lobster

>

> (and I still haven't figured out this alias trick as my email still shows the

same even though in profile I'm now sevenlobsters)

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts! I'm

sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too. One

thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts are

genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

Lobster

> >

> > Do any of you have problems with the gifts your nada tends to give you? For

me they are usually amazingly inappropriate in one way or another or else they

are something that she likes or collects, not that I do. I don't want to look

a gift horse in the mouth, but sometimes the gifts are just as depressing as not

getting anything. I'm left having to act polite and thankful for a gift which

just underscores the amazing lack of genuine relationship there is. Depressing.

> >

> > Lobster

> >

> > (and I still haven't figured out this alias trick as my email still shows

the same even though in profile I'm now sevenlobsters)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts! I'm

sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too. One

thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts are

genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

Lobster

> >

> > Do any of you have problems with the gifts your nada tends to give you? For

me they are usually amazingly inappropriate in one way or another or else they

are something that she likes or collects, not that I do. I don't want to look

a gift horse in the mouth, but sometimes the gifts are just as depressing as not

getting anything. I'm left having to act polite and thankful for a gift which

just underscores the amazing lack of genuine relationship there is. Depressing.

> >

> > Lobster

> >

> > (and I still haven't figured out this alias trick as my email still shows

the same even though in profile I'm now sevenlobsters)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The way I feel about this, is that receiving a gift from someone isn't supposed

to make the recipient feel anxious or icky; so, when you feel that way (as I

often did when receiving a gift from my nada) I think its the subconscious

sensing or remembering that this particular gift-giver has an ulterior motive, a

hidden agenda, which is to create or strengthen their attachment to you.

As you have noticed, any gift given by nada entails that you forever after are

required to provide details about how the gift is being used or displayed, where

you wore it, how much you enjoy it, how many compliments you get about it, etc.

So the nice gift is actually a tool or a means by which nada can receive endless

narcissistic supply from you.

And the other side of that coin: it was also anxiety-and stress-inducing for me

to choose gifts for my nada, because she was so difficult to please. She was

indifferent or tepid about most of the gifts I gave her. She expected only the

most rare, unusual, unique, expensive or time-consuming-to-make kinds of gifts

that perfectly reflected her tastes and were brag-worthy.

Oh well. For me, all that is past now. (My nada passed away this last

December.) But, I just wanted to say I empathize, it seems to be part of having

a bpd mother: experiencing anxiety/stress around the giving and receiving of

gifts.

-Annie

>

> Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts!

I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too.

One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

>

> At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts

are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

>

> Lobster

[Guest guest]

The way I feel about this, is that receiving a gift from someone isn't supposed

to make the recipient feel anxious or icky; so, when you feel that way (as I

often did when receiving a gift from my nada) I think its the subconscious

sensing or remembering that this particular gift-giver has an ulterior motive, a

hidden agenda, which is to create or strengthen their attachment to you.

As you have noticed, any gift given by nada entails that you forever after are

required to provide details about how the gift is being used or displayed, where

you wore it, how much you enjoy it, how many compliments you get about it, etc.

So the nice gift is actually a tool or a means by which nada can receive endless

narcissistic supply from you.

And the other side of that coin: it was also anxiety-and stress-inducing for me

to choose gifts for my nada, because she was so difficult to please. She was

indifferent or tepid about most of the gifts I gave her. She expected only the

most rare, unusual, unique, expensive or time-consuming-to-make kinds of gifts

that perfectly reflected her tastes and were brag-worthy.

Oh well. For me, all that is past now. (My nada passed away this last

December.) But, I just wanted to say I empathize, it seems to be part of having

a bpd mother: experiencing anxiety/stress around the giving and receiving of

gifts.

-Annie

>

> Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts!

I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too.

One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

>

> At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts

are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

>

> Lobster

[Guest guest]

The way I feel about this, is that receiving a gift from someone isn't supposed

to make the recipient feel anxious or icky; so, when you feel that way (as I

often did when receiving a gift from my nada) I think its the subconscious

sensing or remembering that this particular gift-giver has an ulterior motive, a

hidden agenda, which is to create or strengthen their attachment to you.

As you have noticed, any gift given by nada entails that you forever after are

required to provide details about how the gift is being used or displayed, where

you wore it, how much you enjoy it, how many compliments you get about it, etc.

So the nice gift is actually a tool or a means by which nada can receive endless

narcissistic supply from you.

And the other side of that coin: it was also anxiety-and stress-inducing for me

to choose gifts for my nada, because she was so difficult to please. She was

indifferent or tepid about most of the gifts I gave her. She expected only the

most rare, unusual, unique, expensive or time-consuming-to-make kinds of gifts

that perfectly reflected her tastes and were brag-worthy.

Oh well. For me, all that is past now. (My nada passed away this last

December.) But, I just wanted to say I empathize, it seems to be part of having

a bpd mother: experiencing anxiety/stress around the giving and receiving of

gifts.

-Annie

>

> Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts!

I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too.

One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

>

> At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts

are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

>

> Lobster

[Guest guest]

My most colossal mind-f***ing nada gifting experience:

When I was ten, I was a classic tomboy: short hair, jeans-and-t-shirt, wants to

play football kind of girl. I hated dolls. For Christmas, I desperately wanted

this electronic hand-held basketball game. I asked for it several times

explicitly. Christmas day came, and I got...a dollhouse. And my brother got the

exact handheld game I had been asking for. I started crying and then got yelled

at for being selfish.

> >

> > Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts!

I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too.

One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

> >

> > At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts

are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

> >

> > Lobster

>

[Guest guest]

My most colossal mind-f***ing nada gifting experience:

When I was ten, I was a classic tomboy: short hair, jeans-and-t-shirt, wants to

play football kind of girl. I hated dolls. For Christmas, I desperately wanted

this electronic hand-held basketball game. I asked for it several times

explicitly. Christmas day came, and I got...a dollhouse. And my brother got the

exact handheld game I had been asking for. I started crying and then got yelled

at for being selfish.

> >

> > Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts!

I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too.

One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

> >

> > At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts

are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

> >

> > Lobster

>

[Guest guest]

My most colossal mind-f***ing nada gifting experience:

When I was ten, I was a classic tomboy: short hair, jeans-and-t-shirt, wants to

play football kind of girl. I hated dolls. For Christmas, I desperately wanted

this electronic hand-held basketball game. I asked for it several times

explicitly. Christmas day came, and I got...a dollhouse. And my brother got the

exact handheld game I had been asking for. I started crying and then got yelled

at for being selfish.

> >

> > Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts!

I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too.

One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

> >

> > At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts

are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

> >

> > Lobster

>

[Guest guest]

Yep. Nada requires that you play the role she's assigned to you, and there will

be no variations, no re-writing the script she's given you. I wasn't much of a

girly-girl like my nada was. I preferred to read, draw, watch TV, or climb

trees, ride my bike, play at being cowboys and other action-adventure games with

the boys across the street, rather than play dress-up and have tea-parties with

the little girl next door. (Boring! Bleah!)

So I was rather frequently shamed, mocked and denigrated by nada for being

something of a loner, and something of a tomboy: she called me " weird " and

" bizarre " , and told me that my scarred-up knees and shins were ugly.

Its really hard to love and trust a parent who considers you to be creepy,

disgusting and repulsive and tells you so to your face.

So, its about *nada's* expectations and what *nada* thinks is appealing and

" normal " and reflects well on her; nada wants to see an idealized version of her

own self in a daughter. If nada prefers tomboy girls, then she will be

disappointed if her daughter is a girly-girl.

" Witch " type nadas are particularly severe in this regard, seems to me.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad

gifts! I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't

too. One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me

an item meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It

always feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow.

She'll always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and

she'll ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never

feel free to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing

them away so I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

> > >

> > > At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these

gifts are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

> > >

> > > Lobster

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yep. Nada requires that you play the role she's assigned to you, and there will

be no variations, no re-writing the script she's given you. I wasn't much of a

girly-girl like my nada was. I preferred to read, draw, watch TV, or climb

trees, ride my bike, play at being cowboys and other action-adventure games with

the boys across the street, rather than play dress-up and have tea-parties with

the little girl next door. (Boring! Bleah!)

So I was rather frequently shamed, mocked and denigrated by nada for being

something of a loner, and something of a tomboy: she called me " weird " and

" bizarre " , and told me that my scarred-up knees and shins were ugly.

Its really hard to love and trust a parent who considers you to be creepy,

disgusting and repulsive and tells you so to your face.

So, its about *nada's* expectations and what *nada* thinks is appealing and

" normal " and reflects well on her; nada wants to see an idealized version of her

own self in a daughter. If nada prefers tomboy girls, then she will be

disappointed if her daughter is a girly-girl.

" Witch " type nadas are particularly severe in this regard, seems to me.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad

gifts! I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't

too. One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me

an item meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It

always feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow.

She'll always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and

she'll ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never

feel free to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing

them away so I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

> > >

> > > At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these

gifts are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

> > >

> > > Lobster

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yep. Nada requires that you play the role she's assigned to you, and there will

be no variations, no re-writing the script she's given you. I wasn't much of a

girly-girl like my nada was. I preferred to read, draw, watch TV, or climb

trees, ride my bike, play at being cowboys and other action-adventure games with

the boys across the street, rather than play dress-up and have tea-parties with

the little girl next door. (Boring! Bleah!)

So I was rather frequently shamed, mocked and denigrated by nada for being

something of a loner, and something of a tomboy: she called me " weird " and

" bizarre " , and told me that my scarred-up knees and shins were ugly.

Its really hard to love and trust a parent who considers you to be creepy,

disgusting and repulsive and tells you so to your face.

So, its about *nada's* expectations and what *nada* thinks is appealing and

" normal " and reflects well on her; nada wants to see an idealized version of her

own self in a daughter. If nada prefers tomboy girls, then she will be

disappointed if her daughter is a girly-girl.

" Witch " type nadas are particularly severe in this regard, seems to me.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad

gifts! I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't

too. One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me

an item meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It

always feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow.

She'll always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and

she'll ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never

feel free to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing

them away so I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

> > >

> > > At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these

gifts are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

> > >

> > > Lobster

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow - great link to the narcissistic mother's list - hysterical! I'm in

stitches! Thanks!

As to gifts - mine always re-gifts, and makes sure that you know it, or gives

something cheap - pencils, I kid you not!

-Terri

> >

> > Hi,

> > Can you send the link to the narcissistic meaning/responses again. I found

it very helpful but I accidentally removed it from my in box.

> > Thank you so much!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow - great link to the narcissistic mother's list - hysterical! I'm in

stitches! Thanks!

As to gifts - mine always re-gifts, and makes sure that you know it, or gives

something cheap - pencils, I kid you not!

-Terri

> >

> > Hi,

> > Can you send the link to the narcissistic meaning/responses again. I found

it very helpful but I accidentally removed it from my in box.

> > Thank you so much!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting take on it Annie! I do think my nada's weird gifting behavior

comes from her NPD side - what you said about it being a source of n-supply

makes a lot of sense. How she receives the gifts I give her comes from the BPD

side, but that's a whole nother post altogether. And yep my subconscious is

always suspicious because I know she's got hidden agendas in general and even if

they don't happen to be attached to that particular gift, they are still in

operation in the background. And those agendas are about many things but not

about supporting and caring about me as a separate unique being.

Lobsters

> >

> > Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts!

I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too.

One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

> >

> > At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts

are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

> >

> > Lobster

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting take on it Annie! I do think my nada's weird gifting behavior

comes from her NPD side - what you said about it being a source of n-supply

makes a lot of sense. How she receives the gifts I give her comes from the BPD

side, but that's a whole nother post altogether. And yep my subconscious is

always suspicious because I know she's got hidden agendas in general and even if

they don't happen to be attached to that particular gift, they are still in

operation in the background. And those agendas are about many things but not

about supporting and caring about me as a separate unique being.

Lobsters

> >

> > Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts!

I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too.

One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

> >

> > At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts

are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

> >

> > Lobster

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting take on it Annie! I do think my nada's weird gifting behavior

comes from her NPD side - what you said about it being a source of n-supply

makes a lot of sense. How she receives the gifts I give her comes from the BPD

side, but that's a whole nother post altogether. And yep my subconscious is

always suspicious because I know she's got hidden agendas in general and even if

they don't happen to be attached to that particular gift, they are still in

operation in the background. And those agendas are about many things but not

about supporting and caring about me as a separate unique being.

Lobsters

> >

> > Thanks Charlotte, sounds like you've received many categories of bad gifts!

I'm sure you wish you weren't so experienced in this - I wish I weren't too.

One thing that gets under my skin about these gifts is when she gives me an item

meant to be displayed in my home - an artistic knickknack thing. It always

feels like she's trying to intrude her energy into my space somehow. She'll

always ask where I've put the object, tell me how it would look best, and she'll

ask about things years later - she never lets go of them. So I never feel free

to throw them away or donate them. I usually end up just packing them away so

I don't see them all the time, but it still feels icky somehow.

> >

> > At the same time I feel like a jerk writing this post. Some of these gifts

are genuinely nice and maybe she isn't plotting some machiavellian plot of

psychological undermining. Maybe I'm just freaking paranoid. But then this

doesn't come from nowhere...

> >

> > Lobster

>

[Guest guest]

My mom used to give my kids gifts and say, " but these have to stay here for you

to play with when you come to my house " I was so conditioned to the weird gift

giving and control it was my husband that said, " you need to tell her she is

free to give them gifts as long as they are free to do with them as they

please. " because I told her this came from him she accepted it. Now she gets

them things I have told her we are getting them, but right before the holiday.

It was a good thing the Easter Bunny saved receipts!

Fliege Higdon

> My stepnada once gave me some of her clothes, but she told me that if I

decided I didn't want them anymore, she wanted them back because she might want

to wear them again. That's nada speak for " I am giving you these, but if you

give them away, I will make you feel guilty forever. " So, a couple of years ago,

I boxed up most of what she gave me(there were a few things that had torn

buttons or snaps, and some things that accidently were sold in a yard sale),

along with a few things that were mine that I didn't want, and when I made a

trip that way(it's a three hour drive), I left the boxes neatly stacked on the

porch and I left. They weren't home, and I wasn't about to take them back home

with me. I did exactly what she said she wanted me to do. It felt really good

to do that!

> Janet

>

> Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own

understanding.

> In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

> Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

> It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

> Proverbs 3:5-8

>

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:06 PM

> Subject: Re: the gifts they give

>

>

> Exactly so, the gift is symbolic of something that is not there. Real normal

healthy love would be worth more than any object. It's just such a shame that

they seem incapable of it.

>

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > At the Group site, your posts are coming from " sevenlobsters " , and only the

first portion of your e-mail address shows: only your first name.

> >

> > RE gifts, most of the time I'd get a gift from my nada that displayed her

tastes. Every once in a while she'd give me a present that indicated that she

understood my tastes and interests, but either way, there was always a string or

two attached to her gifts as well, so it made receiving gifts, as you say, just

a reminder that there was no genuine relationship there.

> >

> > A gift is a *symbolic gesture*, and its nice, but its not " love " any more

than a picture of a house is a three-dimensional real house you can enter and

live in. So I guess that my nada was confusing a symbolic gesture with the act

of *being loving*: being kind, patient and forgiving, treating your loved ones

as living human beings who have feelings and needs of their own, not as objects

one owns, or servants or human punching bags. I would have much preferred to

just have felt safe to let my guard down around my mother, be honest with her

about my feelings, admit my failings, share my hopes and dreams with her and

know that I'd be heard, understood and supported or advised in a loving way... I

wish I could have had that kind of relationship with my mother, even if it meant

that she never gave me any material things.

> >

> > But that wasn't in the cards for my nada and me, so I guess I should be

grateful that she and dad did at least provide us with material things, that

nada was good with the money dad left her, and was able and willing to give my

Sister and me a little money when she died. If that was her only way of

expressing her love, then, she did love us in the only way she could.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

My mom used to give my kids gifts and say, " but these have to stay here for you

to play with when you come to my house " I was so conditioned to the weird gift

giving and control it was my husband that said, " you need to tell her she is

free to give them gifts as long as they are free to do with them as they

please. " because I told her this came from him she accepted it. Now she gets

them things I have told her we are getting them, but right before the holiday.

It was a good thing the Easter Bunny saved receipts!

Fliege Higdon

> My stepnada once gave me some of her clothes, but she told me that if I

decided I didn't want them anymore, she wanted them back because she might want

to wear them again. That's nada speak for " I am giving you these, but if you

give them away, I will make you feel guilty forever. " So, a couple of years ago,

I boxed up most of what she gave me(there were a few things that had torn

buttons or snaps, and some things that accidently were sold in a yard sale),

along with a few things that were mine that I didn't want, and when I made a

trip that way(it's a three hour drive), I left the boxes neatly stacked on the

porch and I left. They weren't home, and I wasn't about to take them back home

with me. I did exactly what she said she wanted me to do. It felt really good

to do that!

> Janet

>

> Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own

understanding.

> In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

> Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

> It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

> Proverbs 3:5-8

>

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:06 PM

> Subject: Re: the gifts they give

>

>

> Exactly so, the gift is symbolic of something that is not there. Real normal

healthy love would be worth more than any object. It's just such a shame that

they seem incapable of it.

>

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > At the Group site, your posts are coming from " sevenlobsters " , and only the

first portion of your e-mail address shows: only your first name.

> >

> > RE gifts, most of the time I'd get a gift from my nada that displayed her

tastes. Every once in a while she'd give me a present that indicated that she

understood my tastes and interests, but either way, there was always a string or

two attached to her gifts as well, so it made receiving gifts, as you say, just

a reminder that there was no genuine relationship there.

> >

> > A gift is a *symbolic gesture*, and its nice, but its not " love " any more

than a picture of a house is a three-dimensional real house you can enter and

live in. So I guess that my nada was confusing a symbolic gesture with the act

of *being loving*: being kind, patient and forgiving, treating your loved ones

as living human beings who have feelings and needs of their own, not as objects

one owns, or servants or human punching bags. I would have much preferred to

just have felt safe to let my guard down around my mother, be honest with her

about my feelings, admit my failings, share my hopes and dreams with her and

know that I'd be heard, understood and supported or advised in a loving way... I

wish I could have had that kind of relationship with my mother, even if it meant

that she never gave me any material things.

> >

> > But that wasn't in the cards for my nada and me, so I guess I should be

grateful that she and dad did at least provide us with material things, that

nada was good with the money dad left her, and was able and willing to give my

Sister and me a little money when she died. If that was her only way of

expressing her love, then, she did love us in the only way she could.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

My mom used to give my kids gifts and say, " but these have to stay here for you

to play with when you come to my house " I was so conditioned to the weird gift

giving and control it was my husband that said, " you need to tell her she is

free to give them gifts as long as they are free to do with them as they

please. " because I told her this came from him she accepted it. Now she gets

them things I have told her we are getting them, but right before the holiday.

It was a good thing the Easter Bunny saved receipts!

Fliege Higdon

> My stepnada once gave me some of her clothes, but she told me that if I

decided I didn't want them anymore, she wanted them back because she might want

to wear them again. That's nada speak for " I am giving you these, but if you

give them away, I will make you feel guilty forever. " So, a couple of years ago,

I boxed up most of what she gave me(there were a few things that had torn

buttons or snaps, and some things that accidently were sold in a yard sale),

along with a few things that were mine that I didn't want, and when I made a

trip that way(it's a three hour drive), I left the boxes neatly stacked on the

porch and I left. They weren't home, and I wasn't about to take them back home

with me. I did exactly what she said she wanted me to do. It felt really good

to do that!

> Janet

>

> Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own

understanding.

> In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

> Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

> It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

> Proverbs 3:5-8

>

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:06 PM

> Subject: Re: the gifts they give

>

>

> Exactly so, the gift is symbolic of something that is not there. Real normal

healthy love would be worth more than any object. It's just such a shame that

they seem incapable of it.

>

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > At the Group site, your posts are coming from " sevenlobsters " , and only the

first portion of your e-mail address shows: only your first name.

> >

> > RE gifts, most of the time I'd get a gift from my nada that displayed her

tastes. Every once in a while she'd give me a present that indicated that she

understood my tastes and interests, but either way, there was always a string or

two attached to her gifts as well, so it made receiving gifts, as you say, just

a reminder that there was no genuine relationship there.

> >

> > A gift is a *symbolic gesture*, and its nice, but its not " love " any more

than a picture of a house is a three-dimensional real house you can enter and

live in. So I guess that my nada was confusing a symbolic gesture with the act

of *being loving*: being kind, patient and forgiving, treating your loved ones

as living human beings who have feelings and needs of their own, not as objects

one owns, or servants or human punching bags. I would have much preferred to

just have felt safe to let my guard down around my mother, be honest with her

about my feelings, admit my failings, share my hopes and dreams with her and

know that I'd be heard, understood and supported or advised in a loving way... I

wish I could have had that kind of relationship with my mother, even if it meant

that she never gave me any material things.

> >

> > But that wasn't in the cards for my nada and me, so I guess I should be

grateful that she and dad did at least provide us with material things, that

nada was good with the money dad left her, and was able and willing to give my

Sister and me a little money when she died. If that was her only way of

expressing her love, then, she did love us in the only way she could.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

>

>