does everyone hate/judge the unemployed?

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone,

I'm the wife of a man whose parents are narcissitic and/or BPD, although I

really can't tell which is which--they're a good team. I need to read the

book you all refer to that gives the archetypes.

My subject line refers to something my husband's been struggling with. I'm

employed full time, and he doesn't work. This is very hard for him.

Why is this? We both have degrees, but there's more demand in my field,

and landing a good job was relatively easy for me. In his field, finding

steady work is not easy. This on top of his intense social anxiety and

PTSD from the very frightening home he was raised in, being bullied at

school.

For years he was not aware of what he was dealing with, and was depressed,

blaming himself for everything. He thought his parents were great. After

college he had many jobs (~30 in 15 years) and left each one with mostly

negative memories. His parents shamed him each time he quit a job, and

were on his case constantly to get another one.

The message he internalized is that he is worthless, undeserving of

respect, and has no right to be listened to meaningfully if he is

unemployed. He lived with his parents or a sister (moved back and forth

several times) and lived on his own only briefly a few times.

When I think of this sensitive artist suffering under constant judgement

living at home, it makes me understand how crushed he is. The thing is, he

still believes that people have the right to judge him because he is not

working.

Fortunately our financial situation is such that my income is enough for us

to live comfortably. But he lives with the daily shame and belief that

anyone who knows him (or even seems him out & about during the week) judges

him for not being in a job.

We went low contact, then basically no contact lately with his parents

after a huge blow up that began when I asked them to stop questioning him

about his employment situation. He has been traumatized deeply in the area

of work.

Another good thing is that I grew up in a very non-traditional family, so

I'm not really hung up on him not having a job. And I understand that the

traumatizing events of the last two years, having things completely fall

apart with his family, and having them turn their backs on him while

blaming him for everything--this has been so devastating that finding work

has not been a priority.

Of course, I know it would be great for his self esteem if he could find a

job that he enjoyed with decent co-workers. However, accepting a demeaning

job with an abusive boss would only further the trauma he is trying to heal.

It would be really nice to hear words of support from others (maybe

husbands also) who have been knocked flat by the emotional suffering, and

then have the double pain of societal judgement on top of it.

By the way, he is not getting unemployment! Please explain to me how he is

hurting anyone!! We are not doing anything wrong except living frugally on

a single income. Why would people have the right to think he is no good!

As you can see I am angry and hurt that anyone would judge him.

Thank you for listening!

Fern

[Guest guest]

I can definitely tell your husband that no, not everyone hates or judges

the unemployed. Most people sympathize and offer emotional support. Some

even help you look for jobs that fit your skills.

Like you guys, I'm the one who was more easily employed while my husband

had temp jobs off and on for two years until he landed a PT job at a

department store. It's definitely hard enough on the psyche, being

unemployed, without the extra sh*t added on top from abusive parents.

My husband's parents were supportive during his un/underemployment phase,

even helping us out here and there. His mom had been (and is still)

prowling the job sites for jobs that my husband is qualified for, sending

them along. Right now she's helping look for a FT job in the field my

husband is hoping to go into.

Friends and acquaintances were also supportive before my husband's

interviews, and also after he was turned down from jobs. Going out and

about, people can't " see " your unemployment status. And mostly people don't

care if you're going out and about during the day.

So, to your husband, no, not everyone hates/judges the unemployed.

On a more practical note, perhaps he can volunteer somewhere if he isn't

already. It provides the steadiness of a PT job, and fills in the gaps in

the resume, and makes the resume more attractive to hiring managers. It

definitely helped my husband from sinking into despair about unemployment

(and that's without any sh*t from the past!)

Best of luck to your husband!

> **

>

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I'm the wife of a man whose parents are narcissitic and/or BPD, although I

> really can't tell which is which--they're a good team. I need to read the

> book you all refer to that gives the archetypes.

>

> My subject line refers to something my husband's been struggling with. I'm

> employed full time, and he doesn't work. This is very hard for him.

>

> Why is this? We both have degrees, but there's more demand in my field,

> and landing a good job was relatively easy for me. In his field, finding

> steady work is not easy. This on top of his intense social anxiety and

> PTSD from the very frightening home he was raised in, being bullied at

> school.

>

> For years he was not aware of what he was dealing with, and was depressed,

> blaming himself for everything. He thought his parents were great. After

> college he had many jobs (~30 in 15 years) and left each one with mostly

> negative memories. His parents shamed him each time he quit a job, and

> were on his case constantly to get another one.

>

> The message he internalized is that he is worthless, undeserving of

> respect, and has no right to be listened to meaningfully if he is

> unemployed. He lived with his parents or a sister (moved back and forth

> several times) and lived on his own only briefly a few times.

>

> When I think of this sensitive artist suffering under constant judgement

> living at home, it makes me understand how crushed he is. The thing is, he

> still believes that people have the right to judge him because he is not

> working.

>

> Fortunately our financial situation is such that my income is enough for us

> to live comfortably. But he lives with the daily shame and belief that

> anyone who knows him (or even seems him out & about during the week) judges

> him for not being in a job.

>

> We went low contact, then basically no contact lately with his parents

> after a huge blow up that began when I asked them to stop questioning him

> about his employment situation. He has been traumatized deeply in the area

> of work.

>

> Another good thing is that I grew up in a very non-traditional family, so

> I'm not really hung up on him not having a job. And I understand that the

> traumatizing events of the last two years, having things completely fall

> apart with his family, and having them turn their backs on him while

> blaming him for everything--this has been so devastating that finding work

> has not been a priority.

>

> Of course, I know it would be great for his self esteem if he could find a

> job that he enjoyed with decent co-workers. However, accepting a demeaning

> job with an abusive boss would only further the trauma he is trying to

> heal.

>

> It would be really nice to hear words of support from others (maybe

> husbands also) who have been knocked flat by the emotional suffering, and

> then have the double pain of societal judgement on top of it.

>

> By the way, he is not getting unemployment! Please explain to me how he is

> hurting anyone!! We are not doing anything wrong except living frugally on

> a single income. Why would people have the right to think he is no good!

>

> As you can see I am angry and hurt that anyone would judge him.

>

> Thank you for listening!

>

> Fern

>

>

[Guest guest]

No, of course everyone doesn't hate/judge the unemployed -- I don't think

very many people do, actually. But the people who judge a person for being

unemployed are likely to be verbal and obnoxious about it, while the ones

who don't will just quietly go their own way. I mean, the nice people won't

go up to your husband and say " I see you're unemployed, and that's just

fine with me, I don't think it says anything about your worth as a person. "

That would be a very odd thing to do! You can't make the mistake of

thinking that only the people who speak up actually have an opinion. There

is such a thing as a silent majority, particularly when the topic is an

uncomfortable one.

As for the people who DO judge, many of them are unwitting followers of the

" just world " belief, in which the world is a just place where if bad things

happen to you (like extended unemployment) YOU must have done something to

bring it about. Believing this (mostly unconsciously) gives people a false

but comforting sense of control. " If bad things only happen to bad people,

then as long as I don't do bad things, I won't lose my job! I'm safe! "

The " just world " belief causes people to treat unfortunate people badly on

the assumption that they must have done something to DESERVE their bad

luck. It's a version of victim blaming. " She got raped because she wore a

sexy dress, the whore. " " He had a stroke because God knew of the evil

thoughts in his mind and punished him for them. " And so on, and so on, ad

nauseum.

I don't know if it helps much, but try to keep in mind that MOST people

aren't going to give your husband a hard time about being unemployed,

they'll just ignore his unemployed status as irrelevant and not worth

mentioning, and so they won't mention it. And the ones who do give him a

bad time are shoring up their own uncertainty and fear about the essential

randomness of life -- their bad attitude comes from their own deep fears,

not anything your husband did. In other words, it's about THEM, not about

HIM, really.

-- Jen H.

> **

>

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I'm the wife of a man whose parents are narcissitic and/or BPD, although I

> really can't tell which is which--they're a good team. I need to read the

> book you all refer to that gives the archetypes.

>

> My subject line refers to something my husband's been struggling with. I'm

> employed full time, and he doesn't work. This is very hard for him.

>

> Why is this? We both have degrees, but there's more demand in my field,

> and landing a good job was relatively easy for me. In his field, finding

> steady work is not easy. This on top of his intense social anxiety and

> PTSD from the very frightening home he was raised in, being bullied at

> school.

>

> For years he was not aware of what he was dealing with, and was depressed,

> blaming himself for everything. He thought his parents were great. After

> college he had many jobs (~30 in 15 years) and left each one with mostly

> negative memories. His parents shamed him each time he quit a job, and

> were on his case constantly to get another one.

>

> The message he internalized is that he is worthless, undeserving of

> respect, and has no right to be listened to meaningfully if he is

> unemployed. He lived with his parents or a sister (moved back and forth

> several times) and lived on his own only briefly a few times.

>

> When I think of this sensitive artist suffering under constant judgement

> living at home, it makes me understand how crushed he is. The thing is, he

> still believes that people have the right to judge him because he is not

> working.

>

> Fortunately our financial situation is such that my income is enough for us

> to live comfortably. But he lives with the daily shame and belief that

> anyone who knows him (or even seems him out & about during the week) judges

> him for not being in a job.

>

> We went low contact, then basically no contact lately with his parents

> after a huge blow up that began when I asked them to stop questioning him

> about his employment situation. He has been traumatized deeply in the area

> of work.

>

> Another good thing is that I grew up in a very non-traditional family, so

> I'm not really hung up on him not having a job. And I understand that the

> traumatizing events of the last two years, having things completely fall

> apart with his family, and having them turn their backs on him while

> blaming him for everything--this has been so devastating that finding work

> has not been a priority.

>

> Of course, I know it would be great for his self esteem if he could find a

> job that he enjoyed with decent co-workers. However, accepting a demeaning

> job with an abusive boss would only further the trauma he is trying to

> heal.

>

> It would be really nice to hear words of support from others (maybe

> husbands also) who have been knocked flat by the emotional suffering, and

> then have the double pain of societal judgement on top of it.

>

> By the way, he is not getting unemployment! Please explain to me how he is

> hurting anyone!! We are not doing anything wrong except living frugally on

> a single income. Why would people have the right to think he is no good!

>

> As you can see I am angry and hurt that anyone would judge him.

>

> Thank you for listening!

>

> Fern

>

>

[Guest guest]

Narcs use people.

If your DH doesn't have a job, they don't have anything to tell all their

friends about how wonderful they are because their child is employed. They may

perceive him as lazy or worthless, and if he has no " positive " identity for them

to steal and wear as their own, then he is not doing his job as the child of a

Narc.

Growing up with parents like this is extremely damaging emotionally and

psychologically, as you are aware. It takes a lot of work to un-learn the

messages they have taught us about our self-worth. Does your DH have a therapist

yet? Would he be open to the idea of talking to one? It can really help a lot.

Some people might judge your DH, because society as a whole is still not used to

the idea of a woman making more money, let alone all the money. I think any

man's pride might be hurting a little bit in that situation. I personally don't

think there's anything wrong with it, but only would hope that he can find

something that he LIKES to do, not just get a job because he feels he's failing

as a provider or anything like that. Not everyone will judge him. This is

probably him judging himself because that's what his parents taught him to do,

not a whole society looking down on him.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

this is something I relate to in many ways. my Nada spends much of her life

judging DH and me. this reply had something that struck a chord with me:

" I see you're unemployed, and that's just

fine with me, I don't think it says anything about your worth as a person. "

That would be a very odd thing to do! "

my Nada talks like that. no joke. it is really hurtful, because she brings up

all kind of things that you would never see as " flaws " otherwise.

her most recent letter was 4 pages of " I am not judging you because " she gave me

marriage advice based on (very false) assumptions about DH. Informed me (1/2 a

page) of all the reasons she justifies me not giving birth right now. (she is

obsessed with all of us giving birth often)

DH is in the final few months of getting a PHD, and Nada has been mocking him

for a few years about being " overqualified " (which he will not be in his

field)and harassing him to get jobs that she sees as better paying or more

acceptable somehow. she knows nothing about what he does.

the strange thing is that I have a B-I-L who is 2-3 years older that DH who is

still not done with a bachelors degree (married to the all good sister) and that

is fine, and isn't he so nice.

nadas are not too picky. if they dislike someone (even by splitting them into

parts), than they justify it by touting that persons " flaws " even when it is a

complete double standard.

I too was severely Bullied (Nada fully supported the bullies) and am artistic.

nada is deeply ashamed of my " flaws " in that too, oh wait that's right she is my

" biggest fan " it is really hard when your expertise is in an area that is

triggering. the same is true for me.

I am working on deciding what my standard for a good person is. my parents did

not approve of me when I tried to submit, and play the game, so what loss is it

if I stop, and they still can't approve. they are definitely less happy. I too

am overcoming the feeling that I deserve such treatment. years of bullies,

nastiness from siblings, and a BPD mom, and an emotionally absent father made it

hard for me. But it is NEVER the victims fault that they are being abused.

Meikjn

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I'm the wife of a man whose parents are narcissitic and/or BPD, although I

> > really can't tell which is which--they're a good team. I need to read the

> > book you all refer to that gives the archetypes.

> >

> > My subject line refers to something my husband's been struggling with. I'm

> > employed full time, and he doesn't work. This is very hard for him.

> >

> > Why is this? We both have degrees, but there's more demand in my field,

> > and landing a good job was relatively easy for me. In his field, finding

> > steady work is not easy. This on top of his intense social anxiety and

> > PTSD from the very frightening home he was raised in, being bullied at

> > school.

> >

> > For years he was not aware of what he was dealing with, and was depressed,

> > blaming himself for everything. He thought his parents were great. After

> > college he had many jobs (~30 in 15 years) and left each one with mostly

> > negative memories. His parents shamed him each time he quit a job, and

> > were on his case constantly to get another one.

> >

> > The message he internalized is that he is worthless, undeserving of

> > respect, and has no right to be listened to meaningfully if he is

> > unemployed. He lived with his parents or a sister (moved back and forth

> > several times) and lived on his own only briefly a few times.

> >

> > When I think of this sensitive artist suffering under constant judgement

> > living at home, it makes me understand how crushed he is. The thing is, he

> > still believes that people have the right to judge him because he is not

> > working.

> >

> > Fortunately our financial situation is such that my income is enough for us

> > to live comfortably. But he lives with the daily shame and belief that

> > anyone who knows him (or even seems him out & about during the week) judges

> > him for not being in a job.

> >

> > We went low contact, then basically no contact lately with his parents

> > after a huge blow up that began when I asked them to stop questioning him

> > about his employment situation. He has been traumatized deeply in the area

> > of work.

> >

> > Another good thing is that I grew up in a very non-traditional family, so

> > I'm not really hung up on him not having a job. And I understand that the

> > traumatizing events of the last two years, having things completely fall

> > apart with his family, and having them turn their backs on him while

> > blaming him for everything--this has been so devastating that finding work

> > has not been a priority.

> >

> > Of course, I know it would be great for his self esteem if he could find a

> > job that he enjoyed with decent co-workers. However, accepting a demeaning

> > job with an abusive boss would only further the trauma he is trying to

> > heal.

> >

> > It would be really nice to hear words of support from others (maybe

> > husbands also) who have been knocked flat by the emotional suffering, and

> > then have the double pain of societal judgement on top of it.

> >

> > By the way, he is not getting unemployment! Please explain to me how he is

> > hurting anyone!! We are not doing anything wrong except living frugally on

> > a single income. Why would people have the right to think he is no good!

> >

> > As you can see I am angry and hurt that anyone would judge him.

> >

> > Thank you for listening!

> >

> > Fern

> >

> >