Really need advice ...want to scream till my voice is gone, can't ...please help

[Guest guest]

Sorry, this post is longer then I wanted, but...can't seem to find pieces I can

edit and not leave out

It is hard to ask for help, not use to having somewhere that I can yet.

Somewhere where the truth of my nada's actions and behavior are not uncommon,

where people believe me.

I have a serious current situation. Last Wednesday, my nada went to my

daughter's school (she is 12) and visited her during a break. My nada did not

call/email anyone in the family (me, my husband, my 25yr old son) prior to this

visit. When my daughter came home from school, she said to my husband, " guess

who came to see me at school " . Nada still has not contacted in anyway anyone in

the family to inform us of this visit.

Two pieces of information you should know as background.

My nada kidnapped my son in 1988 , took him from California to Ohio and dropped

him off with the father's parents, came back to California patting herself on

the back for what she did since.

The second is, I am NC since June 2011. Since then and against my better

judgement, I allowed my daughter to spend an overnight at her grandmother's

once. This was back in Dec and I am still dealing with the effects of what nada

said to her. Including nada telling my daughter that your mother (me) is a liar,

that I lie about everything and twist things to blame others for my (me)problems

and have to be right, that I hate her (my nada), that she (nada) misses spending

time with her family. Especially her granddaughter.....etc.

So far I have not denied nada access, I have however made excuses to nada's

invitations to my daughter. Although nada is telling people I am denying her

'grandparent rights'.

I have told my daughter she has a right to see her grandmother and I am doing

everything I can to assure that right for her. I also told my daughter, as your

mother it is my responsibility to you to protect you. In order to do that, I

have decided I will not allow her to be put in the middle of the issues between

nada and myself. Also that any further visits will be supervised by me, in a

public place such as a restaurant and no more then 2hrs. That I will sit at a

table within view and hearing, but not at the same table.

I have not informed nada yet of this, as I ....... know with almost complete

accuracy that she will attack, financially (she holds the loan on my husband's

vehicle), legally, etc. And because deep within me, I am scared.

I can not live with myself if I allow another child of mine to be hurt by her,

it's hard enough living with the shame and pain that I wasn't strong enough

before. I know I was only 22 yrs old when she took my son. I know I am, now, a

strong confident woman of 46.

I want to scream, pound, I know I can't right now, I have to keep my feet on the

ground, keep focused, rally my strength and prepare for the storm.

I also know that I am only one person and that as hard as I try, I won't be able

to think of everything, see every possibility and my family just don't have the

same understanding of her as I do.

Please...I need help and I don't even know what help to ask for ...

[Guest guest]

Her behaviors are really over the edge. First, do whatever you can to

sever any financial obligations. I do not know what you mean that she "

holds the loan " . Is she a bank? Did she co sign? Does she have the loan

in her name and make the payments on it?

Unless you directly owe her the money, or she is a bank, it seems that

whatever she may " Hold " on the loan, as long as you continue to make

the payments, so what?

You were unclear, she kidnapped your son, did you get him back?

You have a woman who kidnapped one of your children visiting another of

your children at her school. I think I see a problem with that.

Kidnapping aside, my rule of thumb is NO BP EVER GETS ACCESS TO A MINOR

CHILD WITHOUT A SANE ADULT PRESENT. EVER. EVER. EVER. EVER. Never an

overnight. All the shit Nada put her own children through, she has had

20 years to perfect her technique. She will be worse.

Second, no one just " drops by to visit " a kid at thier school without

some reason. And this is a person who KIDNAPPED one of your children?

Advice? Call the school right now, and tell them this woman is an

insane family member who kidnapped your daughter s brother some years

ago. Tell them she is NOT permitted to see your daughter, and if she

shows up again they should protect her and call the police.

Then, get a restraining order against her. If she shows up throw her

ass in jail.

Just the brief amount you said about what this horrid old woman said to

manipulate a 12 year old kid tells me that she was practicing major FOG

on her. Please, do NOT subject your daughter to any more of this woman.

Your daughter is a 12 year old. She does NOT have the RIGHT to see her

grandparents. What if her grandpa was Manson? Would you feel

that way still? She DOES have a right to be protected and safe while she

is raised. It is not your job to make her like you or approve of your

decisions. " Dear, your grandmother has mental problems, and I don t

feel it is safe for you to be around her. I m sorry but that is how it

is. When you are 18, if you choose otherwise, that is up to you. But

for now, you are the child, I am the parent, and I m choosing what is

best and safest for you.

No gift or help from a BP is a true gift. If she co signed a loan, she

is or will use that to manipulate you.

Whew. Read Safe People, by Cloud and Townsend.

And keep that bitch away from your daughter.

IMHO

Doug

>

> Sorry, this post is longer then I wanted, but...can't seem to find

pieces I can edit and not leave out

> It is hard to ask for help, not use to having somewhere that I can

yet. Somewhere where the truth of my nada's actions and behavior are not

uncommon, where people believe me.

>

> I have a serious current situation. Last Wednesday, my nada went to my

daughter's school (she is 12) and visited her during a break. My nada

did not call/email anyone in the family (me, my husband, my 25yr old

son) prior to this visit. When my daughter came home from school, she

said to my husband, " guess who came to see me at school " . Nada still has

not contacted in anyway anyone in the family to inform us of this visit.

>

> Two pieces of information you should know as background.

> My nada kidnapped my son in 1988 , took him from California to Ohio

and dropped him off with the father's parents, came back to California

patting herself on the back for what she did since.

>

> The second is, I am NC since June 2011. Since then and against my

better judgement, I allowed my daughter to spend an overnight at her

grandmother's once. This was back in Dec and I am still dealing with the

effects of what nada said to her. Including nada telling my daughter

that your mother (me) is a liar, that I lie about everything and twist

things to blame others for my (me)problems and have to be right, that I

hate her (my nada), that she (nada) misses spending time with her

family. Especially her granddaughter.....etc.

>

> So far I have not denied nada access, I have however made excuses to

nada's invitations to my daughter. Although nada is telling people I am

denying her 'grandparent rights'.

>

> I have told my daughter she has a right to see her grandmother and I

am doing everything I can to assure that right for her. I also told my

daughter, as your mother it is my responsibility to you to protect you.

In order to do that, I have decided I will not allow her to be put in

the middle of the issues between nada and myself. Also that any further

visits will be supervised by me, in a public place such as a restaurant

and no more then 2hrs. That I will sit at a table within view and

hearing, but not at the same table.

>

> I have not informed nada yet of this, as I ....... know with almost

complete accuracy that she will attack, financially (she holds the loan

on my husband's vehicle), legally, etc. And because deep within me, I am

scared.

>

> I can not live with myself if I allow another child of mine to be hurt

by her, it's hard enough living with the shame and pain that I wasn't

strong enough before. I know I was only 22 yrs old when she took my son.

I know I am, now, a strong confident woman of 46.

>

> I want to scream, pound, I know I can't right now, I have to keep my

feet on the ground, keep focused, rally my strength and prepare for the

storm.

>

> I also know that I am only one person and that as hard as I try, I

won't be able to think of everything, see every possibility and my

family just don't have the same understanding of her as I do.

>

> Please...I need help and I don't even know what help to ask for ...

>

[Guest guest]

My first reaction to this is to ask what the world the school

was thinking. How did she get in to visit your daughter? Schools

where I live are very strict about who is allowed to get past

the front office. Since your daughter's school apparently isn't,

I think you need to make it clear to them that your nada is not

permitted to contact your daughter at school or pick her up. She

may be trying to establish with the school that she is a

trustworthy relative so that she can pick your daughter up one

day and kidnap her too.

Your plan for making future visits between your daughter and

your nada take place in public with you in sight but not at

right with them sounds good but I have one worry about it. She's

already trying to twist your daughter's mind. If you're sitting

at a different table, are you going to be able to stop her from

telling your daughter lies and turning her against you? Even if

you try to listen in, she'll probably find ways to whisper her

lies to your daughter or too get damaging ideas into your

daughter's head before you can come over and take her away. I

think your nada needs to understand that bad-mouthing you to

your daughter will result in no more visits for some period of

time. Maybe that will help, maybe not. Your daughter is at a

vulnerable age. She's approaching the age where children

frequently feel some rebellion against their parents and a

desire to establish themselves as individuals and do their own

thing. If she ends up seeing your nada as an ally against you,

the consequences could be severe.

Please, stop blaming yourself for what happened to your son.

She's your mother. You were young. I'm sure you weren't prepared

for your own mother to kidnap your son. Who would expect that?

You probably had no clue about BPD at the time and no

understanding of how mentally ill she is. Not only that, she

obviously had allies in her actions. How could you have stood up

against all of them? There's no shame in having been unable to

prevent it. Pain yes, but no shame.

At 01:00 AM 06/05/2012 tikivixen wrote:

>Sorry, this post is longer then I wanted, but...can't seem to

>find pieces I can edit and not leave out

>It is hard to ask for help, not use to having somewhere that I

>can yet. Somewhere where the truth of my nada's actions and

>behavior are not uncommon, where people believe me.

>

>I have a serious current situation. Last Wednesday, my nada

>went to my daughter's school (she is 12) and visited her during

>a break. My nada did not call/email anyone in the family (me,

>my husband, my 25yr old son) prior to this visit. When my

>daughter came home from school, she said to my husband, " guess

>who came to see me at school " . Nada still has not contacted in

>anyway anyone in the family to inform us of this visit.

>

>Two pieces of information you should know as background.

> My nada kidnapped my son in 1988 , took him from California

> to Ohio and dropped him off with the father's parents, came

> back to California patting herself on the back for what she

> did since.

>

>The second is, I am NC since June 2011. Since then and against

>my better judgement, I allowed my daughter to spend an

>overnight at her grandmother's once. This was back in Dec and I

>am still dealing with the effects of what nada said to her.

>Including nada telling my daughter that your mother (me) is a

>liar, that I lie about everything and twist things to blame

>others for my (me)problems and have to be right, that I hate

>her (my nada), that she (nada) misses spending time with her

>family. Especially her granddaughter.....etc.

>

>So far I have not denied nada access, I have however made

>excuses to nada's invitations to my daughter. Although nada is

>telling people I am denying her 'grandparent rights'.

>

> I have told my daughter she has a right to see her

> grandmother and I am doing everything I can to assure that

> right for her. I also told my daughter, as your mother it is

> my responsibility to you to protect you. In order to do that,

> I have decided I will not allow her to be put in the middle of

> the issues between nada and myself. Also that any further

> visits will be supervised by me, in a public place such as a

> restaurant and no more then 2hrs. That I will sit at a table

> within view and hearing, but not at the same table.

>

>I have not informed nada yet of this, as I ....... know with

>almost complete accuracy that she will attack, financially (she

>holds the loan on my husband's vehicle), legally, etc. And

>because deep within me, I am scared.

>

>I can not live with myself if I allow another child of mine to

>be hurt by her, it's hard enough living with the shame and pain

>that I wasn't strong enough before. I know I was only 22 yrs

>old when she took my son. I know I am, now, a strong confident

>woman of 46.

>

>I want to scream, pound, I know I can't right now, I have to

>keep my feet on the ground, keep focused, rally my strength and

>prepare for the storm.

>

>I also know that I am only one person and that as hard as I

>try, I won't be able to think of everything, see every

>possibility and my family just don't have the same

>understanding of her as I do.

>

>Please...I need help and I don't even know what help to ask for

>...

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I agree. I'm so sorry that your bpd mother is so extremely domineering and

aggressive toward you, and apparently views your children as her property, that

she can do with as she pleases with no consequences. Its really, really

difficult for those of us who had or have a Queen/Witch bpd mother to wrest our

adult power from such a mother because she has trained and punished us from

birth to Obey and Defer to her, or Else.

But unless your nada has been your daughter's primary caregiver (daycare) for

most of her life, your bpd mother/nada has no " rights " to see your daughter.

Your daughter is a minor who is depending on you to protect her and make the

best choices for her; she doesn't have the " right " to make the kind of choice

you're giving her (choosing to have contact with her bpd grandmother.) While

its kind of you to consider your daughter's feelings, it still devolves upon you

as her mother to make such adult decisions for her, even if that means your

daughter feels unhappy with you for a while.

I agree with the earlier posters who suggest that your daughter is being

negatively influenced/corrupted by your bpd mother/nada to perceive bpd

grandmother as the hero/victim, and you as the bad guy. And I agree that under

the circumstances/the history you have described (prior kidnapping, verbal

corruption) its not a good idea for your daughter to have *any* contact with

her grand-momster in any way until she is an adult.

I hope you will figure out a means to take up your adult power, your rights, and

implement firm boundaries with your nada in a very clear and effective way. Me

personally, if I were in similar circumstances (prior kidnapping, verbal

corruption) I would consult with a lawyer about various legal options to protect

myself and my family, such as the possibility of a restraining order.

Best of luck to you with this; keep posting whenever you need validation and

support.

-Annie

>

> My first reaction to this is to ask what the world the school

> was thinking. How did she get in to visit your daughter? Schools

> where I live are very strict about who is allowed to get past

> the front office. Since your daughter's school apparently isn't,

> I think you need to make it clear to them that your nada is not

> permitted to contact your daughter at school or pick her up. She

> may be trying to establish with the school that she is a

> trustworthy relative so that she can pick your daughter up one

> day and kidnap her too.

>

> Your plan for making future visits between your daughter and

> your nada take place in public with you in sight but not at

> right with them sounds good but I have one worry about it. She's

> already trying to twist your daughter's mind. If you're sitting

> at a different table, are you going to be able to stop her from

> telling your daughter lies and turning her against you? Even if

> you try to listen in, she'll probably find ways to whisper her

> lies to your daughter or too get damaging ideas into your

> daughter's head before you can come over and take her away. I

> think your nada needs to understand that bad-mouthing you to

> your daughter will result in no more visits for some period of

> time. Maybe that will help, maybe not. Your daughter is at a

> vulnerable age. She's approaching the age where children

> frequently feel some rebellion against their parents and a

> desire to establish themselves as individuals and do their own

> thing. If she ends up seeing your nada as an ally against you,

> the consequences could be severe.

>

> Please, stop blaming yourself for what happened to your son.

> She's your mother. You were young. I'm sure you weren't prepared

> for your own mother to kidnap your son. Who would expect that?

> You probably had no clue about BPD at the time and no

> understanding of how mentally ill she is. Not only that, she

> obviously had allies in her actions. How could you have stood up

> against all of them? There's no shame in having been unable to

> prevent it. Pain yes, but no shame.

[Guest guest]

Write a letter to the principal(s) of your children's schools, and cc it to any

staff that are responsible for your children (homeroom teachers, music teachers,

etc., as well as office staff). Let them know that under no circumstances do you

want your mother to visit your children at school. Give her full name and a

photo. I would include the bit about her history of having kidnapped your son

and taken him across state lines. Let them know what you want them to do if she

shows up on school property.

Have you looked into a restraining order? Was your mother prosecuted for her

crime?

Sveta

[Guest guest]

Thank you Doug,

I have gone to the school and told them that she is not allowed on campus. I

didn't not tell them why nor the history....yet.

She used her credit to finance a truck loan for my husband, so title and

registration are in her name. I know she could and will probably use the truck

against us. Come take it away on the premise of ,'how do I know you will

actually make the payments...ya ya ya, (as I'm not trustworthy, I'm a liar, and

I'm only interested in money and she, poor victim, just give and give, only to

get used over and over- when actually she has .........crap, sorry getting point

again.)

Bottom line is, she doesn't want the truck, she can't sell it for the amount

left on the loan and if she takes it for whatever reason she gives herself to

justify it, I will be very clear that I am not responsible for any shortfall and

am perfectly willing to continue the payments as we have.

I am an only child and was her primary 'whipping girl/support' til I cut it off

June of last year. So her reactions are going to continue to get more demanding.

Thank you for the outrage and expressing what I can not, not yet, not right now.

tikivixen

> >

> > Sorry, this post is longer then I wanted, but...can't seem to find

> pieces I can edit and not leave out

> > It is hard to ask for help, not use to having somewhere that I can

> yet. Somewhere where the truth of my nada's actions and behavior are not

> uncommon, where people believe me.

> >

> > I have a serious current situation. Last Wednesday, my nada went to my

> daughter's school (she is 12) and visited her during a break. My nada

> did not call/email anyone in the family (me, my husband, my 25yr old

> son) prior to this visit. When my daughter came home from school, she

> said to my husband, " guess who came to see me at school " . Nada still has

> not contacted in anyway anyone in the family to inform us of this visit.

> >

> > Two pieces of information you should know as background.

> > My nada kidnapped my son in 1988 , took him from California to Ohio

> and dropped him off with the father's parents, came back to California

> patting herself on the back for what she did since.

> >

> > The second is, I am NC since June 2011. Since then and against my

> better judgement, I allowed my daughter to spend an overnight at her

> grandmother's once. This was back in Dec and I am still dealing with the

> effects of what nada said to her. Including nada telling my daughter

> that your mother (me) is a liar, that I lie about everything and twist

> things to blame others for my (me)problems and have to be right, that I

> hate her (my nada), that she (nada) misses spending time with her

> family. Especially her granddaughter.....etc.

> >

> > So far I have not denied nada access, I have however made excuses to

> nada's invitations to my daughter. Although nada is telling people I am

> denying her 'grandparent rights'.

> >

> > I have told my daughter she has a right to see her grandmother and I

> am doing everything I can to assure that right for her. I also told my

> daughter, as your mother it is my responsibility to you to protect you.

> In order to do that, I have decided I will not allow her to be put in

> the middle of the issues between nada and myself. Also that any further

> visits will be supervised by me, in a public place such as a restaurant

> and no more then 2hrs. That I will sit at a table within view and

> hearing, but not at the same table.

> >

> > I have not informed nada yet of this, as I ....... know with almost

> complete accuracy that she will attack, financially (she holds the loan

> on my husband's vehicle), legally, etc. And because deep within me, I am

> scared.

> >

> > I can not live with myself if I allow another child of mine to be hurt

> by her, it's hard enough living with the shame and pain that I wasn't

> strong enough before. I know I was only 22 yrs old when she took my son.

> I know I am, now, a strong confident woman of 46.

> >

> > I want to scream, pound, I know I can't right now, I have to keep my

> feet on the ground, keep focused, rally my strength and prepare for the

> storm.

> >

> > I also know that I am only one person and that as hard as I try, I

> won't be able to think of everything, see every possibility and my

> family just don't have the same understanding of her as I do.

> >

> > Please...I need help and I don't even know what help to ask for ...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina

When I first found the forum, I read post after post for a couples days and what

kept going through my head was,- It's not me, I'm not crazy, it's not my fault.

The weight that was lifted off my heart, my shoulders, amazing and wonderful.

A very close good friend, who has seen my nada's behavior for years pointed me

to this forum and to the BP information in Dec 2011. So my true understanding is

very new and I am working through things for myself.

In fact, I am also ADHD so I am currently reading 'walking on egg shells' and

'ADD friendly ways to Organize your Life'. Reading both at the same time, well

they seem to be helping me. The organizing book, gives me ideas on how to deal

with the overwhelm and prioritize, and the other offers the understanding that

breaks things in to pieces that I can handle and ideas for limit/boundary

setting.

It is hard to reach out for help as I have rarely been believed before. So I

promise you and myself. I will make it a priority to check by asking myself,'are

you hiding? would having support/advice be helpful?'. Deal?

Thank you for understanding the pain I carry about my son.

tikivixen

> >Sorry, this post is longer then I wanted, but...can't seem to

> >find pieces I can edit and not leave out

> >It is hard to ask for help, not use to having somewhere that I

> >can yet. Somewhere where the truth of my nada's actions and

> >behavior are not uncommon, where people believe me.

> >

> >I have a serious current situation. Last Wednesday, my nada

> >went to my daughter's school (she is 12) and visited her during

> >a break. My nada did not call/email anyone in the family (me,

> >my husband, my 25yr old son) prior to this visit. When my

> >daughter came home from school, she said to my husband, " guess

> >who came to see me at school " . Nada still has not contacted in

> >anyway anyone in the family to inform us of this visit.

> >

> >Two pieces of information you should know as background.

> > My nada kidnapped my son in 1988 , took him from California

> > to Ohio and dropped him off with the father's parents, came

> > back to California patting herself on the back for what she

> > did since.

> >

> >The second is, I am NC since June 2011. Since then and against

> >my better judgement, I allowed my daughter to spend an

> >overnight at her grandmother's once. This was back in Dec and I

> >am still dealing with the effects of what nada said to her.

> >Including nada telling my daughter that your mother (me) is a

> >liar, that I lie about everything and twist things to blame

> >others for my (me)problems and have to be right, that I hate

> >her (my nada), that she (nada) misses spending time with her

> >family. Especially her granddaughter.....etc.

> >

> >So far I have not denied nada access, I have however made

> >excuses to nada's invitations to my daughter. Although nada is

> >telling people I am denying her 'grandparent rights'.

> >

> > I have told my daughter she has a right to see her

> > grandmother and I am doing everything I can to assure that

> > right for her. I also told my daughter, as your mother it is

> > my responsibility to you to protect you. In order to do that,

> > I have decided I will not allow her to be put in the middle of

> > the issues between nada and myself. Also that any further

> > visits will be supervised by me, in a public place such as a

> > restaurant and no more then 2hrs. That I will sit at a table

> > within view and hearing, but not at the same table.

> >

> >I have not informed nada yet of this, as I ....... know with

> >almost complete accuracy that she will attack, financially (she

> >holds the loan on my husband's vehicle), legally, etc. And

> >because deep within me, I am scared.

> >

> >I can not live with myself if I allow another child of mine to

> >be hurt by her, it's hard enough living with the shame and pain

> >that I wasn't strong enough before. I know I was only 22 yrs

> >old when she took my son. I know I am, now, a strong confident

> >woman of 46.

> >

> >I want to scream, pound, I know I can't right now, I have to

> >keep my feet on the ground, keep focused, rally my strength and

> >prepare for the storm.

> >

> >I also know that I am only one person and that as hard as I

> >try, I won't be able to think of everything, see every

> >possibility and my family just don't have the same

> >understanding of her as I do.

> >

> >Please...I need help and I don't even know what help to ask for

> >...

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

I will call legal aid and check the internet for the guidelines for a

restraining order, but I don't believe she has crossed that line yet.

But she probably will at sometime, so knowing that info now will be good to

have.

thank you

>

> Write a letter to the principal(s) of your children's schools, and cc it to

any staff that are responsible for your children (homeroom teachers, music

teachers, etc., as well as office staff). Let them know that under no

circumstances do you want your mother to visit your children at school. Give her

full name and a photo. I would include the bit about her history of having

kidnapped your son and taken him across state lines. Let them know what you want

them to do if she shows up on school property.

>

> Have you looked into a restraining order? Was your mother prosecuted for her

crime?

>

> Sveta

>

[Guest guest]

Sure she has. She KIDNAPPED your son. Now she has made an unannounced

visit to your daughter s school without permission. You have a

legitimate fear that she will kidnap your daughter.

Doug

> >

> > Write a letter to the principal(s) of your children's schools, and

cc it to any staff that are responsible for your children (homeroom

teachers, music teachers, etc., as well as office staff). Let them know

that under no circumstances do you want your mother to visit your

children at school. Give her full name and a photo. I would include the

bit about her history of having kidnapped your son and taken him across

state lines. Let them know what you want them to do if she shows up on

school property.

> >

> > Have you looked into a restraining order? Was your mother prosecuted

for her crime?

> >

> > Sveta

> >

>