How much do you ignore and how much do you address?

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I set boundaries with my uBPD mother about five years ago, by basically refusing

to talk to her on the phone anymore, and to only see her in group settings with

my BF by my side. This was after 36 years of bending myself into a pretzel to

give her what she wanted (i.e. an hour a day on the phone), even though it was

making me physically sick.

When I started coming around again after a few months, my father would pull me

aside and try to shame me into calling my mother. He has since passed. It

sounds awful, but there was some relief in his passing, as he was always my

mother's #1 attack dog. He bought into whatever craziness she was selling and

came down on me, as if I was a " naughty girl " even though I was in my 30's!

Before my father died, my brother started filling in the attack dog role,

sending me shaming e-mails that made me shake for hours. Asking him to be nice

to me didn't work, so I blocked his e-mail 3 years ago. It was like getting

sucker punched in the face; I never knew when it was coming.

So now my brother is calling me and trying to be cordial. However, he is an

alcoholic, and I cannot tell when he is drunk, because he can drink a whole

fifth of whiskey and not slur his speech or stumble.

He called last night and I tried to keep the conversation light. He said

someone had contacted him through facebook saying they used to know me and so he

gave her my number, but he didn't remember her name. He said, " I hope it wasn't

one of your enemies. " I said I was sure it was fine and kept trying to change

the subject, but he repeated that twice. I ignored it, but I wonder if I should

have said, " What enemies? "

After a bit he gave me a speech he only gives when he is drunk, one which he

tells me that he wants us to be close and talk more because I am his sister. I

responded with " OK " as to say " I heard you. " He was like, " Aren't you going to

reciprocate? " I told him that when he sends me nasty e-mails it damages our

relationship and I do not want to be close with someone who treats me like that.

Basically we went round and round where I said, " I don't want to be spoken to

that way EVER " and he said " no matter what happens, no matter what e-mails you

get, we are family so you just have to.... " I said " TAKE IT? " and he said

" Yeah. " Obviously I don't agree with him there.

Then he said that his nasty e-mail was a year ago and I should stop living in

the past. Our father died a year ago, and when brother told me he was dying

(he'd been sick with Alzheimers for years), I did not go to watch him die and

watch my mother lose her mind. I simply felt that I could not handle it. I had

seen my father just a few weeks earlier in a private visit. So apparently he

sent me another e-mail after that. SO GLAD I BLOCKED HIM OMG. I was a wreck in

the months following but I hid it from him because he is NOT SAFE.

I told my brother that I am not living in the past, I am simply addressing his

desire for us to be close. We cannot be close when he treats me that way. I

asked him if he was willing to promise to not send me e-mails like that in the

future and he said NO but that we were family, and what's wrong, can't I " take

it " ? He had feelings and he wanted to get them out and so he e-mailed me.

We're family, he can do that.

I told him that my friends and my BF do not speak to me that way. He said " They

don't know you like I do. "

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UGGGGH!

If they knew me, REALLY knew me (like the THINKS he does!) they would know that

I am garbage? I have NEVER been close with him. I don't feel like *I* know

*HIM* at all.

He closed by saying he wants to speak weekly and I said that was too much.

Basically he just waited for me to cave until I said, " Oh, BF is home, gotta go "

and hung up on him. But now that he's talking frequency, I am prepared to tell

him that 3 times a year is enough for me.

He's the older sibling and I feel like he thinks he will always have power over

me. This is the most I have asserted myself. Usually in my family, after some

verbal abuse, those involved just pretend it never happened.

Sorry this is so long. My overall question is, when a family member who you

know is not safe makes passive-aggressive jabs at you, and it's hard to even

tell if they are a jab, do you normally ignore them or call them on it?

I mean, if a friend who I feel safe with says something that could be taken

either way, I assume the best, not the worst.

All I want is for people to treat me with respect.

Thanks for listening.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Sounds like a stressful conversation.

Basically, you allowed yourself to get pulled into a circular argument. You want

your brother to understand your choice.

He ain't ever gonna.

You're never going to get him to understand that his behavior is unacceptable to

you. He believes he is entitled to treat you however he wants, and that it is

your responsibility to let him.

My overall question is, when a family member who you know is not safe makes

passive-aggressive jabs at you, and it's hard to even tell if they are a jab, do

you normally ignore them or call them on it?

>

You say you know he is not safe. Why then are you still talking to him about

this? Why do you stay on the phone with him when he begins behaving this way?

It's up to you whether to ignore or call him out. However, I don't see how

confronting him is going to do you any good, because he doesn't care if you

think his behavior is hurtful or wrong. At most, I'd say, " I am not capable of

having the kind of relationship with you that you want " and end the call. Don't

worry about the WHYs, because he doesn't care. He doesn't want to know your

WHYs. He just wants to know what it takes to keep you around so he can use you

to dump his emotional garbage on.

When you start feeling that uncomfortable feeling, that " What's going on here? "

confusing feeling, when you can't tell if you're being insulted or gaslighted or

what...why not just make an excuse and get off the phone and process

things...you can always call back later if you want to.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna,

This is just my own personal opinion, and you have the right to decide what

feels the most workable for you, but I personally think that NOT ONE PERSON was

put on this earth to " take it " , or be someone else's punching bag, ever. A

human being is not an emotional punching bag, or a physical one, or a sexual one

or a financial one. We KOs were born into an unhealthy, dysfunctional family

dynamic in which our parents *needed* to take out their own frustrations and

pain on a living human target, and so their spouse and/or their children become

their punching bags. We as children had no means of understanding that our

parents and/or siblings' treatment of us: that being screamed at, or physically

assaulted, or shamed and humiliated, or ignored and starved for affection, or

sexually exploited or parentified.... were and are wrong, and abusive. As

children, that is simply our " normal " environment.

It takes time and emotional distance and often physical distance, and sometimes

it also takes therapy, for us KOs to achieve some healing and the objectivity

necessary to realize that no, its not OK to just stand there and be a punching

bag.

So I think its a very healthy and positive move on your part to establish

boundaries with your brother. His abusive behaviors toward you could be due to

personality disorder, or alcoholism, or both; the behaviors are similar.

So my reply to your question " ...when a family member who you know is not safe

makes passive-aggressive jabs at you, and it's hard to even tell if they are a

jab, do you normally ignore them or call them on it? " is that if it feels like

a jab, then its a jab. Even covert, passive-aggressive abuse is still abuse.

You don't have to take *any* of it. Its your choice. There is no " should " or

" ought to " , its just about what feels OK to you, or what feels hurtful to you.

(Example: " I'm not going to listen to you when you speak to me like that / make

that kind of comment / call me names / curse at me, etc. I'm hanging up the

phone now. We can talk again in a few months, perhaps. " )

My nada was a master of what I called the " stealth insult " . She was able to

criticize me and make shaming, denigrating remarks about me, to me, in such a

skillful way that sometimes after I'd hang up the phone after talking with her,

it would occur to me up to hours afterward that she'd actually said something

really mean and ugly, just in a very indirect way. (And I'm sure my

obliviousness was partly due to numbing out or falling into a partially

dissociative state around her, as well.) So I can relate to your feeling unsure

whether your brother actually did make a jab at you or not.

Our subconscious is sometimes more adept at fielding these insults and attacks

than our conscious mind is, so if you find yourself feeling sick or depressed

after talking with your brother, then, seems to me that its likely that he is

indeed lobbing passive-aggressive " stealth insult " grenades at you that your

subconscious recognizes, hence the feeling ill afterwards.

My opinion: you have NO obligation to justify, argue, defend or explain to your

brother your decision to reduce or cease contact with him (that's called JADE).

Actually, you already did explain your feelings to him, he indicated that he IS

aware of your feelings and *he does not care*; in his mind you are obligated to

be his punching bag. So, therefor, your decision that you only wish to speak

with him a few times a year, and that you will cut the calls short if you detect

that he is being emotionally abusive, insulting or demeaning toward you, sounds

absolutely reasonable and very healthy to me.

Any feelings of guilt or responsibility that you may be feeling about your

decision are misplaced and inappropriate. Your brother is an adult. He has the

ability to seek therapy if he wishes to change himself and perhaps earn the

right to ask for more contact with you. You have the right and the power to

decide if you feel safe allowing a relationship with any given individual, and

you have the right to do so without guilt.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> Hi all,

>

> I set boundaries with my uBPD mother about five years ago, by basically

refusing to talk to her on the phone anymore, and to only see her in group

settings with my BF by my side. This was after 36 years of bending myself into

a pretzel to give her what she wanted (i.e. an hour a day on the phone), even

though it was making me physically sick.

>

> When I started coming around again after a few months, my father would pull me

aside and try to shame me into calling my mother. He has since passed. It

sounds awful, but there was some relief in his passing, as he was always my

mother's #1 attack dog. He bought into whatever craziness she was selling and

came down on me, as if I was a " naughty girl " even though I was in my 30's!

>

> Before my father died, my brother started filling in the attack dog role,

sending me shaming e-mails that made me shake for hours. Asking him to be nice

to me didn't work, so I blocked his e-mail 3 years ago. It was like getting

sucker punched in the face; I never knew when it was coming.

>

> So now my brother is calling me and trying to be cordial. However, he is an

alcoholic, and I cannot tell when he is drunk, because he can drink a whole

fifth of whiskey and not slur his speech or stumble.

>

> He called last night and I tried to keep the conversation light. He said

someone had contacted him through facebook saying they used to know me and so he

gave her my number, but he didn't remember her name. He said, " I hope it wasn't

one of your enemies. " I said I was sure it was fine and kept trying to change

the subject, but he repeated that twice. I ignored it, but I wonder if I should

have said, " What enemies? "

>

> After a bit he gave me a speech he only gives when he is drunk, one which he

tells me that he wants us to be close and talk more because I am his sister. I

responded with " OK " as to say " I heard you. " He was like, " Aren't you going to

reciprocate? " I told him that when he sends me nasty e-mails it damages our

relationship and I do not want to be close with someone who treats me like that.

>

> Basically we went round and round where I said, " I don't want to be spoken to

that way EVER " and he said " no matter what happens, no matter what e-mails you

get, we are family so you just have to.... " I said " TAKE IT? " and he said

" Yeah. " Obviously I don't agree with him there.

>

> Then he said that his nasty e-mail was a year ago and I should stop living in

the past. Our father died a year ago, and when brother told me he was dying

(he'd been sick with Alzheimers for years), I did not go to watch him die and

watch my mother lose her mind. I simply felt that I could not handle it. I had

seen my father just a few weeks earlier in a private visit. So apparently he

sent me another e-mail after that. SO GLAD I BLOCKED HIM OMG. I was a wreck in

the months following but I hid it from him because he is NOT SAFE.

>

> I told my brother that I am not living in the past, I am simply addressing his

desire for us to be close. We cannot be close when he treats me that way. I

asked him if he was willing to promise to not send me e-mails like that in the

future and he said NO but that we were family, and what's wrong, can't I " take

it " ? He had feelings and he wanted to get them out and so he e-mailed me.

We're family, he can do that.

>

> I told him that my friends and my BF do not speak to me that way. He said

" They don't know you like I do. "

>

> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UGGGGH!

>

> If they knew me, REALLY knew me (like the THINKS he does!) they would know

that I am garbage? I have NEVER been close with him. I don't feel like *I*

know *HIM* at all.

>

> He closed by saying he wants to speak weekly and I said that was too much.

Basically he just waited for me to cave until I said, " Oh, BF is home, gotta go "

and hung up on him. But now that he's talking frequency, I am prepared to tell

him that 3 times a year is enough for me.

>

> He's the older sibling and I feel like he thinks he will always have power

over me. This is the most I have asserted myself. Usually in my family, after

some verbal abuse, those involved just pretend it never happened.

>

> Sorry this is so long. My overall question is, when a family member who you

know is not safe makes passive-aggressive jabs at you, and it's hard to even

tell if they are a jab, do you normally ignore them or call them on it?

>

> I mean, if a friend who I feel safe with says something that could be taken

either way, I assume the best, not the worst.

>

> All I want is for people to treat me with respect.

>

> Thanks for listening.

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

GAH! You are so right! Thank you.

> My overall question is, when a family member who you know is not safe makes

passive-aggressive jabs at you, and it's hard to even tell if they are a jab, do

you normally ignore them or call them on it?

> >

>

> You say you know he is not safe. Why then are you still talking to him about

this? Why do you stay on the phone with him when he begins behaving this way?

>

> It's up to you whether to ignore or call him out. However, I don't see how

confronting him is going to do you any good, because he doesn't care if you

think his behavior is hurtful or wrong. At most, I'd say, " I am not capable of

having the kind of relationship with you that you want " and end the call. Don't

worry about the WHYs, because he doesn't care. He doesn't want to know your

WHYs. He just wants to know what it takes to keep you around so he can use you

to dump his emotional garbage on.

>

> When you start feeling that uncomfortable feeling, that " What's going on

here? " confusing feeling, when you can't tell if you're being insulted or

gaslighted or what...why not just make an excuse and get off the phone and

process things...you can always call back later if you want to.

>

> Sveta

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much Annie. I'm actually in my 11th year of therapy (or

thereabouts). I feel like I really *get* the concepts, but putting them into

practice is an entirely different thing, isn't it?

You and the other poster are both right. He confirmed as much with me on the

phone. He feels that because we are related, I am obligated to take anything he

wishes to hurl my way. He also feels that I am obligated to have a *close*

relationship with him, regardless of how he treats me. That is so NUTS!

I have been wondering what my life would be like without the shadow of this

family crap on me. What if I wasn't just taking it from them? Who am I when I

am not afraid of the phone, or Facebook or email? What am I when I am not

" fear " ?

And yes, my brother sounds like your nada. I hang up thinking, " Was that a

slam? " My mother was always big on saying that I was just too sensitive.

Thank you for reminding me about JADE. And YES I did explain my feelings to him

and he DID tell me he didn't care about how I feel. When I am honest with

myself, I do not even want to talk to him one on one EVER.

It's time I start living more authentically, and stop denying my own feelings or

trying to push myself through very uncomfortable stuff.

Thanks Annie.

Deanna

>

> Hi Deanna,

>

> This is just my own personal opinion, and you have the right to decide what

feels the most workable for you, but I personally think that NOT ONE PERSON was

put on this earth to " take it " , or be someone else's punching bag, ever. A

human being is not an emotional punching bag, or a physical one, or a sexual one

or a financial one. We KOs were born into an unhealthy, dysfunctional family

dynamic in which our parents *needed* to take out their own frustrations and

pain on a living human target, and so their spouse and/or their children become

their punching bags. We as children had no means of understanding that our

parents and/or siblings' treatment of us: that being screamed at, or physically

assaulted, or shamed and humiliated, or ignored and starved for affection, or

sexually exploited or parentified.... were and are wrong, and abusive. As

children, that is simply our " normal " environment.

>

> It takes time and emotional distance and often physical distance, and

sometimes it also takes therapy, for us KOs to achieve some healing and the

objectivity necessary to realize that no, its not OK to just stand there and be

a punching bag.

>

> So I think its a very healthy and positive move on your part to establish

boundaries with your brother. His abusive behaviors toward you could be due to

personality disorder, or alcoholism, or both; the behaviors are similar.

>

> So my reply to your question " ...when a family member who you know is not safe

makes passive-aggressive jabs at you, and it's hard to even tell if they are a

jab, do you normally ignore them or call them on it? " is that if it feels like

a jab, then its a jab. Even covert, passive-aggressive abuse is still abuse.

You don't have to take *any* of it. Its your choice. There is no " should " or

" ought to " , its just about what feels OK to you, or what feels hurtful to you.

>

> (Example: " I'm not going to listen to you when you speak to me like that /

make that kind of comment / call me names / curse at me, etc. I'm hanging up

the phone now. We can talk again in a few months, perhaps. " )

>

> My nada was a master of what I called the " stealth insult " . She was able to

criticize me and make shaming, denigrating remarks about me, to me, in such a

skillful way that sometimes after I'd hang up the phone after talking with her,

it would occur to me up to hours afterward that she'd actually said something

really mean and ugly, just in a very indirect way. (And I'm sure my

obliviousness was partly due to numbing out or falling into a partially

dissociative state around her, as well.) So I can relate to your feeling unsure

whether your brother actually did make a jab at you or not.

>

> Our subconscious is sometimes more adept at fielding these insults and attacks

than our conscious mind is, so if you find yourself feeling sick or depressed

after talking with your brother, then, seems to me that its likely that he is

indeed lobbing passive-aggressive " stealth insult " grenades at you that your

subconscious recognizes, hence the feeling ill afterwards.

>

> My opinion: you have NO obligation to justify, argue, defend or explain to

your brother your decision to reduce or cease contact with him (that's called

JADE). Actually, you already did explain your feelings to him, he indicated

that he IS aware of your feelings and *he does not care*; in his mind you are

obligated to be his punching bag. So, therefor, your decision that you only

wish to speak with him a few times a year, and that you will cut the calls short

if you detect that he is being emotionally abusive, insulting or demeaning

toward you, sounds absolutely reasonable and very healthy to me.

>

> Any feelings of guilt or responsibility that you may be feeling about your

decision are misplaced and inappropriate. Your brother is an adult. He has the

ability to seek therapy if he wishes to change himself and perhaps earn the

right to ask for more contact with you. You have the right and the power to

decide if you feel safe allowing a relationship with any given individual, and

you have the right to do so without guilt.

>

> I hope that helps.

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

I feel your anguish.

I have a very similar kind of toxicity in my family.

It sounds like your brother triggers you big time.

Because he knows how to wind you up.

Remember, you can't talk sense to crazy!

If you trust your intuition, you will quickly know when your bro has been

drinking. You can make up a reason you have to get off the phone. He can't hear

your truth. You have the right to set boundaries and you can learn to do that in

ALANON.

I have more to say, but you have my empathy. I feel completely alone in my

family.

I am new to this forum. I just my mother. I have been in a severe depression and

have been feeling very isolated.

Glad to be here.

Courage and self love to all.

<3 ♫♪♫

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

I feel your pain. It is so mind-f&king to have to deal with these PAs. I hate

them so much that when my poor unenlightened partner used to say " Quite being

passive agressive! " I would scream loudly at him to make him know that I was

being aggressive and there ain't no passive subterfuge about it! ha ha. those

ticks are being resolved with in therapy! ; )

Perhaps what might help you understand the situation more is to read more about

scapegoating, emotionally manipulative people etc. To that end I recommend

Emotional Blackmail by Dr. Forward and this website has it's own take on

manipulative people: http://www.manipulative-people.com/

For me learning the difference between assertive behavior and agressive fight

response is a good way to learn how to mediate the PA (passive agressives) in

our lives. I so loathe them because it mimics the covert manipulations of my

mother. I can't answer how to best respond ie call them out on it or not

because I have found that calling out does not work with narcs (though to be

fair i hadn't learned any better methods of engagement prior to my nada's

death). And I haven't bothered to try on anyone else.

Good luck to you in resolving this. I think it shows great awareness and

healthiness that you are trying to assert your self respect in this equation.

SR

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

I see nothing in what you say that leads me to believe your

brother is likely to change and start treating you with respect.

He apparently doesn't see anything wrong with his misbehavior

and believes he can treat you however he wants and how he wants

is not nice or respectful. Do you think he has BPD himself, or

some other personality disorder or do you think he just learned

this bad behavior from your parents? If he is doesn't have a

personality disorder or other serious mental issue himself, it

is possible that he could learn to treat you better but that

would take effort on his part. Unless he wants to change you're

not going to be able to make him change.

I also fail to see where you say anything about wanting to have

a relationship with him. How much contact with him do you want

to have? If you want to talk to him a few times a year maybe you

can get by with ignoring his jabs just to keep an on-going

relationship with him. Can you learn to let the jabs flow past

you and not hurt you? If not, I wonder whether it wouldn't be

better to stop having contact with him. You deserve to be

treated decently and I see no reason you should put up with the

way he treats you.

At 02:58 PM 06/08/2012 deannaveg wrote:

>Hi all,

>

>I set boundaries with my uBPD mother about five years ago, by

>basically refusing to talk to her on the phone anymore, and to

>only see her in group settings with my BF by my side. This was

>after 36 years of bending myself into a pretzel to give her

>what she wanted (i.e. an hour a day on the phone), even though

>it was making me physically sick.

>

>When I started coming around again after a few months, my

>father would pull me aside and try to shame me into calling my

>mother. He has since passed. It sounds awful, but there was

>some relief in his passing, as he was always my mother's #1

>attack dog. He bought into whatever craziness she was selling

>and came down on me, as if I was a " naughty girl " even though I

>was in my 30's!

>

>Before my father died, my brother started filling in the attack

>dog role, sending me shaming e-mails that made me shake for

>hours. Asking him to be nice to me didn't work, so I blocked

>his e-mail 3 years ago. It was like getting sucker punched in

>the face; I never knew when it was coming.

>

>So now my brother is calling me and trying to be

>cordial. However, he is an alcoholic, and I cannot tell when

>he is drunk, because he can drink a whole fifth of whiskey and

>not slur his speech or stumble.

>

>He called last night and I tried to keep the conversation

>light. He said someone had contacted him through facebook

>saying they used to know me and so he gave her my number, but

>he didn't remember her name. He said, " I hope it wasn't one of

>your enemies. " I said I was sure it was fine and kept trying

>to change the subject, but he repeated that twice. I ignored

>it, but I wonder if I should have said, " What enemies? "

>

>After a bit he gave me a speech he only gives when he is drunk,

>one which he tells me that he wants us to be close and talk

>more because I am his sister. I responded with " OK " as to say

> " I heard you. " He was like, " Aren't you going to

>reciprocate? " I told him that when he sends me nasty e-mails

>it damages our relationship and I do not want to be close with

>someone who treats me like that.

>

>Basically we went round and round where I said, " I don't want

>to be spoken to that way EVER " and he said " no matter what

>happens, no matter what e-mails you get, we are family so you

>just have to.... " I said " TAKE IT? " and he said

> " Yeah. " Obviously I don't agree with him there.

>

>Then he said that his nasty e-mail was a year ago and I should

>stop living in the past. Our father died a year ago, and when

>brother told me he was dying (he'd been sick with Alzheimers

>for years), I did not go to watch him die and watch my mother

>lose her mind. I simply felt that I could not handle it. I

>had seen my father just a few weeks earlier in a private

>visit. So apparently he sent me another e-mail after that. SO

>GLAD I BLOCKED HIM OMG. I was a wreck in the months following

>but I hid it from him because he is NOT SAFE.

>

>I told my brother that I am not living in the past, I am simply

>addressing his desire for us to be close. We cannot be close

>when he treats me that way. I asked him if he was willing to

>promise to not send me e-mails like that in the future and he

>said NO but that we were family, and what's wrong, can't I

> " take it " ? He had feelings and he wanted to get them out and

>so he e-mailed me. We're family, he can do that.

>

>I told him that my friends and my BF do not speak to me that

>way. He said " They don't know you like I do. "

>

>WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UGGGGH!

>

>If they knew me, REALLY knew me (like the THINKS he does!) they

>would know that I am garbage? I have NEVER been close with

>him. I don't feel like *I* know *HIM* at all.

>

>He closed by saying he wants to speak weekly and I said that

>was too much. Basically he just waited for me to cave until I

>said, " Oh, BF is home, gotta go " and hung up on him. But now

>that he's talking frequency, I am prepared to tell him that 3

>times a year is enough for me.

>

>He's the older sibling and I feel like he thinks he will always

>have power over me. This is the most I have asserted

>myself. Usually in my family, after some verbal abuse, those

>involved just pretend it never happened.

>

>Sorry this is so long. My overall question is, when a family

>member who you know is not safe makes passive-aggressive jabs

>at you, and it's hard to even tell if they are a jab, do you

>normally ignore them or call them on it?

>

>I mean, if a friend who I feel safe with says something that

>could be taken either way, I assume the best, not the worst.

>

>All I want is for people to treat me with respect.

>

>Thanks for listening.

>

>Deanna

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Thanks SR. I am checking out that website right now. I saw my therapist

yesterday and when I told her how I said to my brother " nobody in my life treats

me that way " and he said, " they don't know you like I do " she said, " WOW. What

a mindf*ck! " ha ha I'm volunteering at a domestic violence shelter and this

made me think: This guy sounds like an " abuser! "

I am going to revisit Emotional Blackmail. Thank you for that great suggestion.

Deanna

>

> Deanna,

>

> I feel your pain. It is so mind-f&king to have to deal with these PAs. I hate

them so much that when my poor unenlightened partner used to say " Quite being

passive agressive! " I would scream loudly at him to make him know that I was

being aggressive and there ain't no passive subterfuge about it! ha ha. those

ticks are being resolved with in therapy! ; )

>

> Perhaps what might help you understand the situation more is to read more

about scapegoating, emotionally manipulative people etc. To that end I

recommend Emotional Blackmail by Dr. Forward and this website has it's own

take on manipulative people: http://www.manipulative-people.com/

>

> For me learning the difference between assertive behavior and agressive fight

response is a good way to learn how to mediate the PA (passive agressives) in

our lives. I so loathe them because it mimics the covert manipulations of my

mother. I can't answer how to best respond ie call them out on it or not

because I have found that calling out does not work with narcs (though to be

fair i hadn't learned any better methods of engagement prior to my nada's

death). And I haven't bothered to try on anyone else.

>

> Good luck to you in resolving this. I think it shows great awareness and

healthiness that you are trying to assert your self respect in this equation.

>

> SR

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know Katrina, in talking with my therapist yesterday, I realized that I

don't want any kind of relationship with him. I don't want to be alone with him

on the phone, just like I didn't want to be alone with my mother on the phone.

You know how you might see distant relatives at a yearly picnic or something?

That would be enough for me. We have NEVER had a relationship. EVER. How can

he act like he " knows " me?

I don't think he has BPD. Does he have some narcissistic tendencies? I think

he might. He is an alcoholic. He pulled $25,000 from his credit card in one

year and lost it all at the casino (he probably makes $50,000 a year). He

probably smokes pot every day as well. So with all of his using and abusing, it

is hard to tell what is a PD and what is alcoholism, you know?

But you are absolutely right. He has no intention of ever treating me better.

>

> Deanna,

> I see nothing in what you say that leads me to believe your

> brother is likely to change and start treating you with respect.

> He apparently doesn't see anything wrong with his misbehavior

> and believes he can treat you however he wants and how he wants

> is not nice or respectful. Do you think he has BPD himself, or

> some other personality disorder or do you think he just learned

> this bad behavior from your parents? If he is doesn't have a

> personality disorder or other serious mental issue himself, it

> is possible that he could learn to treat you better but that

> would take effort on his part. Unless he wants to change you're

> not going to be able to make him change.

>

> I also fail to see where you say anything about wanting to have

> a relationship with him. How much contact with him do you want

> to have? If you want to talk to him a few times a year maybe you

> can get by with ignoring his jabs just to keep an on-going

> relationship with him. Can you learn to let the jabs flow past

> you and not hurt you? If not, I wonder whether it wouldn't be

> better to stop having contact with him. You deserve to be

> treated decently and I see no reason you should put up with the

> way he treats you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

You're right, it is hard to separate alcoholism from PDs and

other mental health problems. If he ever stops drinking and

smoking pot, maybe he'll wise up in other ways as well and turn

into someone you want to have a relationship with. Alcoholics do

sometimes realize they have a problem and get help and when they

do they sometimes end up changing how they treat other people.

It sounds like he may have a gambling problem as well if he blew

$25,000 in borrowed money at a casino. That may get him in deep

enough trouble to wake him up one day. If that ever happens with

him, maybe you can give him another chance. In the meantime,

treating him like a distant relative you see once a year or so

sounds good to me.

At 12:49 PM 06/09/2012 deannaveg wrote:

>You know Katrina, in talking with my therapist yesterday, I

>realized that I don't want any kind of relationship with

>him. I don't want to be alone with him on the phone, just like

>I didn't want to be alone with my mother on the phone. You

>know how you might see distant relatives at a yearly picnic or

>something? That would be enough for me. We have NEVER had a

>relationship. EVER. How can he act like he " knows " me?

>

>I don't think he has BPD. Does he have some narcissistic

>tendencies? I think he might. He is an alcoholic. He pulled

>$25,000 from his credit card in one year and lost it all at the

>casino (he probably makes $50,000 a year). He probably smokes

>pot every day as well. So with all of his using and abusing,

>it is hard to tell what is a PD and what is alcoholism, you

>know?

>

>But you are absolutely right. He has no intention of ever

>treating me better.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

He definitely has a gambling problem. That incident was 5 years ago and he

continues to gamble. My belief is that his wife puts up with it (though she

complains about it) because he lets her continue to use cocaine. I don't see

either of them sobering up any time soon. Until then, I think you're right, I

should treat him like a distant relative (and also like a rattlesnake!).

> >You know Katrina, in talking with my therapist yesterday, I

> >realized that I don't want any kind of relationship with

> >him. I don't want to be alone with him on the phone, just like

> >I didn't want to be alone with my mother on the phone. You

> >know how you might see distant relatives at a yearly picnic or

> >something? That would be enough for me. We have NEVER had a

> >relationship. EVER. How can he act like he " knows " me?

> >

> >I don't think he has BPD. Does he have some narcissistic

> >tendencies? I think he might. He is an alcoholic. He pulled

> >$25,000 from his credit card in one year and lost it all at the

> >casino (he probably makes $50,000 a year). He probably smokes

> >pot every day as well. So with all of his using and abusing,

> >it is hard to tell what is a PD and what is alcoholism, you

> >know?

> >

> >But you are absolutely right. He has no intention of ever

> >treating me better.

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Isn't it funny (NOT) how these damaged people gravitate toward each other. Your

alcoholic bro, and his coke head wife. LOVELY (can ya hear the sarcasm dripping

there?) C

>

> He definitely has a gambling problem. That incident was 5 years ago and he

continues to gamble. My belief is that his wife puts up with it (though she

complains about it) because he lets her continue to use cocaine. I don't see

either of them sobering up any time soon. Until then, I think you're right, I

should treat him like a distant relative (and also like a rattlesnake!).

[Guest guest]

For sure! I believe my SIL is an alcoholic as well. My niece was 19 in

December, and she went home from college for the holiday. Her parents had her

do a shot every hour to celebrate New Year's Eve. It's crazy to me that they

don't see how wrong that is. Not only is it ILLEGAL to give alcohol to minors,

but they were teaching her to ABUSE alcohol. My BF offered my niece a glass of

wine once, and while he was offering for her to just sip from a drink for the

pleasure of it (not to get drunk), I told him that in the future, the rule was

no drinking until you're 21. (She refused the drink, BTW). My BF said OK, I

won't do that again. He is awesome!

Deanna

> >

> > He definitely has a gambling problem. That incident was 5 years ago and he

continues to gamble. My belief is that his wife puts up with it (though she

complains about it) because he lets her continue to use cocaine. I don't see

either of them sobering up any time soon. Until then, I think you're right, I

should treat him like a distant relative (and also like a rattlesnake!).

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Martha. I am not so good at trusting my intuition. I think he always

drinks, it's just a matter of how much, really. I have plans to attend my first

Alanon meeting tomorrow; thank you for the suggestion!

We are all here for you. I hope your depression improves soon.

Deanna

>

> Deanna,

>

> I feel your anguish.

>

> I have a very similar kind of toxicity in my family.

>

> It sounds like your brother triggers you big time.

> Because he knows how to wind you up.

>

> Remember, you can't talk sense to crazy!

>

> If you trust your intuition, you will quickly know when your bro has been

drinking. You can make up a reason you have to get off the phone. He can't hear

your truth. You have the right to set boundaries and you can learn to do that in

ALANON.

>

> I have more to say, but you have my empathy. I feel completely alone in my

family.

>

> I am new to this forum. I just my mother. I have been in a severe depression

and have been feeling very isolated.

> Glad to be here.

>

> Courage and self love to all.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <3 ♫♪♫

>

[Guest guest]

AL ANON. It's the Master Class. My whole family is alcoholic, Deanna. Not to

mention BPD and other forms of mental illness. I've often said I feel like

Cousin Marilyn in the MUNSTERS in my family. The odd one out, NOT being an

alcoholic. But I'm just beginning to see I've been as ill as they are, but in a

different way. Its a " family dis-ease " as Bradshaw says.The ALANONIC is

the one who reacts to everything, and the disease of alcoholism is, as they say,

" cunning, baffling and powerful " .

My triggers are my own wounds getting activated. Getting the for us off the

alcoholic or BPD or addict and ONTO ME, is the key. One thing I have

definitely learned.......being " RIGHT " never made me happy. (And, I have a right

to all my feelings..) Its a real bind.

I'VE built a case against THEM, and even though its all true, THEY cant handle

the truth and its really not my job to go around pointing it out. It only fuels

their fire and makes them even more hostile. Its my job to take responsibility

for healing me..whatever it takes. I am responsible for all my feelings,

triggers, thoughts and reactions.

Ultimately, I am the one who needs my love and attention. Mental illness and

addiction are the great destroyers. I didn't cause it, can't cure it or fix it.

It's not my fault. But I get to choose the company I keep. ALANON teaches me how

to detach with love. It's a process.

You are NOT alone. and thanks to your courage in sharing, neither am I!

All the best to you on your healing journey.

Martha

<3 ♫♪♫

> Thanks Martha. I am not so good at trusting my intuition. I think he always

drinks, it's just a matter of how much, really. I have plans to attend my first

Alanon meeting tomorrow; thank you for the suggestion!

>

> We are all here for you. I hope your depression improves soon.

>

> Deanna

>

>

> >

> > Deanna,

> >

> > I feel your anguish.

> >

> > I have a very similar kind of toxicity in my family.

> >

> > It sounds like your brother triggers you big time.

> > Because he knows how to wind you up.

> >

> > Remember, you can't talk sense to crazy!

> >

> > If you trust your intuition, you will quickly know when your bro has been

drinking. You can make up a reason you have to get off the phone. He can't hear

your truth. You have the right to set boundaries and you can learn to do that in

ALANON.

> >

> > I have more to say, but you have my empathy. I feel completely alone in my

family.

> >

> > I am new to this forum. I just my mother. I have been in a severe depression

and have been feeling very isolated.

> > Glad to be here.

> >

> > Courage and self love to all.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > <3 ♫♪♫

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Correctipn: that was supposed to say, " getting the focus off of me " ----

sorry....IPAD!!

<3 ♫♪♫

> Thanks Martha. I am not so good at trusting my intuition. I think he always

drinks, it's just a matter of how much, really. I have plans to attend my first

Alanon meeting tomorrow; thank you for the suggestion!

>

> We are all here for you. I hope your depression improves soon.

>

> Deanna

>

>

> >

> > Deanna,

> >

> > I feel your anguish.

> >

> > I have a very similar kind of toxicity in my family.

> >

> > It sounds like your brother triggers you big time.

> > Because he knows how to wind you up.

> >

> > Remember, you can't talk sense to crazy!

> >

> > If you trust your intuition, you will quickly know when your bro has been

drinking. You can make up a reason you have to get off the phone. He can't hear

your truth. You have the right to set boundaries and you can learn to do that in

ALANON.

> >

> > I have more to say, but you have my empathy. I feel completely alone in my

family.

> >

> > I am new to this forum. I just my mother. I have been in a severe depression

and have been feeling very isolated.

> > Glad to be here.

> >

> > Courage and self love to all.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > <3 ♫♪♫

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can't type fer sh#%!#^}* !!!!!!!!!!

<3 ♫♪♫

> Correctipn: that was supposed to say, " getting the focus off of me " ----

sorry....IPAD!!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <3 ♫♪♫

>

>

>

>

>

> > Thanks Martha. I am not so good at trusting my intuition. I think he always

drinks, it's just a matter of how much, really. I have plans to attend my first

Alanon meeting tomorrow; thank you for the suggestion!

> >

> > We are all here for you. I hope your depression improves soon.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Deanna,

> > >

> > > I feel your anguish.

> > >

> > > I have a very similar kind of toxicity in my family.

> > >

> > > It sounds like your brother triggers you big time.

> > > Because he knows how to wind you up.

> > >

> > > Remember, you can't talk sense to crazy!

> > >

> > > If you trust your intuition, you will quickly know when your bro has been

drinking. You can make up a reason you have to get off the phone. He can't hear

your truth. You have the right to set boundaries and you can learn to do that in

ALANON.

> > >

> > > I have more to say, but you have my empathy. I feel completely alone in my

family.

> > >

> > > I am new to this forum. I just my mother. I have been in a severe

depression and have been feeling very isolated.

> > > Glad to be here.

> > >

> > > Courage and self love to all.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > <3 ♫♪♫

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

<3 ♫♪♫

Begin forwarded message:

>

> Date: June 10, 2012 1:15:18 PM EDT

> To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " WTOAdultChildren1 >

> Subject: Re: Re: How much do you ignore and how much do

you address?

> Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

>

> Correctipn: that was supposed to say, " getting the focus off of me " ----

sorry....IPAD!!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <3 ♫♪♫

>

>

>

>

>

> > Thanks Martha. I am not so good at trusting my intuition. I think he always

drinks, it's just a matter of how much, really. I have plans to attend my first

Alanon meeting tomorrow; thank you for the suggestion!

> >

> > We are all here for you. I hope your depression improves soon.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Deanna,

> > >

> > > I feel your anguish.

> > >

> > > I have a very similar kind of toxicity in my family.

> > >

> > > It sounds like your brother triggers you big time.

> > > Because he knows how to wind you up.

> > >

> > > Remember, you can't talk sense to crazy!

> > >

> > > If you trust your intuition, you will quickly know when your bro has been

drinking. You can make up a reason you have to get off the phone. He can't hear

your truth. You have the right to set boundaries and you can learn to do that in

ALANON.

> > >

> > > I have more to say, but you have my empathy. I feel completely alone in my

family.

> > >

> > > I am new to this forum. I just my mother. I have been in a severe

depression and have been feeling very isolated.

> > > Glad to be here.

> > >

> > > Courage and self love to all.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > <3 ♫♪♫

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Deanna.

In a previous email, I was trying to share that I just lost my mother. Her death

plunged me into major depression. I am just beginning to crawl out of that black

hole.

In the past month I've had a lot of time to sift through my life. My conclusion

so far is that as much as I ultimately came to adore my mother, I suspect she

was BPD. or quite possibly Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I also think this

may be true for all my siblings, including ME. This, lying underneath the

alcoholism and addictions. Although I escaped the chemical dependency, I'm a

food addict for sure. Also, computer and tv. I think my most glaring addiction

is the addiction to being RIGHT! And a tendency to be very critical and see the

negative aspects. Decades of

pain and feeling my family's favorite scapegoat have made me depressed and

bitter. Hopeless, even. Having said that, I believe my nature is joyous. But the

damaged personality due to early child abuse - (physical

beatings,raging,severely controlling, punishing, shaming alcoholic parents)

really clouded my otherwise sunny lens with a painful perception of life that I

then projected onto the unsafe world I see. (It has taken me my whole life up to

this point to be able to admit this).

My mothers death is helping me to see what's true and what isn't true and

hopefully, with a lot of help and support, I will be able to retrieve my true

self out of all the painful rubble and go on to have the joyous, fulfilling,

rich, happy peaceful life I deserve to have. I have suffered for far too long. I

won't tell you how old I am, but trust me, I've been around a long time...so I

am not only grieving my mothers death, I am grieving the fulfilling life I was

not able to have, and all the time and opportunities lost. Up to this point. I

pray this is a major turning point for me. It feels like it.

My heart goes out to all who struggle, and all who suffer.

Peace be with you,

Martha

<3 ♫♪♫

> AL ANON. It's the Master Class. My whole family is alcoholic, Deanna. Not to

mention BPD and other forms of mental illness. I've often said I feel like

Cousin Marilyn in the MUNSTERS in my family. The odd one out, NOT being an

alcoholic. But I'm just beginning to see I've been as ill as they are, but in a

different way. Its a " family dis-ease " as Bradshaw says.The ALANONIC is the

one who reacts to everything, and the disease of alcoholism is, as they say,

" cunning, baffling and powerful " .

>

> My triggers are my own wounds getting activated. Getting the for us off the

alcoholic or BPD or addict and ONTO ME, is the key. One thing I have definitely

learned.......being " RIGHT " never made me happy. (And, I have a right to all my

feelings..) Its a real bind.

>

> I'VE built a case against THEM, and even though its all true, THEY cant handle

the truth and its really not my job to go around pointing it out. It only fuels

their fire and makes them even more hostile. Its my job to take responsibility

for healing me..whatever it takes. I am responsible for all my feelings,

triggers, thoughts and reactions.

> Ultimately, I am the one who needs my love and attention. Mental illness and

addiction are the great destroyers. I didn't cause it, can't cure it or fix it.

It's not my fault. But I get to choose the company I keep. ALANON teaches me how

to detach with love. It's a process.

>

>

> You are NOT alone. and thanks to your courage in sharing, neither am I!

>

> All the best to you on your healing journey.

> Martha

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <3 ♫♪♫

>

>

>

>

>

> > Thanks Martha. I am not so good at trusting my intuition. I think he always

drinks, it's just a matter of how much, really. I have plans to attend my first

Alanon meeting tomorrow; thank you for the suggestion!

> >

> > We are all here for you. I hope your depression improves soon.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Deanna,

> > >

> > > I feel your anguish.

> > >

> > > I have a very similar kind of toxicity in my family.

> > >

> > > It sounds like your brother triggers you big time.

> > > Because he knows how to wind you up.

> > >

> > > Remember, you can't talk sense to crazy!

> > >

> > > If you trust your intuition, you will quickly know when your bro has been

drinking. You can make up a reason you have to get off the phone. He can't hear

your truth. You have the right to set boundaries and you can learn to do that in

ALANON.

> > >

> > > I have more to say, but you have my empathy. I feel completely alone in my

family.

> > >

> > > I am new to this forum. I just my mother. I have been in a severe

depression and have been feeling very isolated.

> > > Glad to be here.

> > >

> > > Courage and self love to all.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > <3 ♫♪♫

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I connected my wireless apple keyboard to my iPad and then they just came out

with this fabulous origami tray case for it that works as a stand for the iPad

while you are typing. It is made by In Case and is sold at the apple store and

of course online I am sure. I love it. I use my little lap desk and now I do

almost all of my computing from my favorite chair and am no longer tied to the

desk, just a wifi signal. I detest touch screen for typing AND I know how to

touch type without even looking so this is a much more desirable set up for me.

Definately still like the touch screen for replacing the mouse. My carpal tunnel

symptoms have all but disappeared. C

> > >

> > > Deanna,

> > >

> > > I feel your anguish.

> > >

> > > I have a very similar kind of toxicity in my family.

> > >

> > > It sounds like your brother triggers you big time.

> > > Because he knows how to wind you up.

> > >

> > > Remember, you can't talk sense to crazy!

> > >

> > > If you trust your intuition, you will quickly know when your bro has been

drinking. You can make up a reason you have to get off the phone. He can't hear

your truth. You have the right to set boundaries and you can learn to do that in

ALANON.

> > >

> > > I have more to say, but you have my empathy. I feel completely alone in my

family.

> > >

> > > I am new to this forum. I just my mother. I have been in a severe

depression and have been feeling very isolated.

> > > Glad to be here.

> > >

> > > Courage and self love to all.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > <3 ♫♪♫

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey thanks, CmeBfree!

I've heard of those. Will have to,check it out.

<3 ♫♪♫

> I connected my wireless apple keyboard to my iPad and then they just came out

with this fabulous origami tray case for it that works as a stand for the iPad

while you are typing. It is made by In Case and is sold at the apple store and

of course online I am sure. I love it. I use my little lap desk and now I do

almost all of my computing from my favorite chair and am no longer tied to the

desk, just a wifi signal. I detest touch screen for typing AND I know how to

touch type without even looking so this is a much more desirable set up for me.

Definately still like the touch screen for replacing the mouse. My carpal tunnel

symptoms have all but disappeared. C

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Deanna,

> > > >

> > > > I feel your anguish.

> > > >

> > > > I have a very similar kind of toxicity in my family.

> > > >

> > > > It sounds like your brother triggers you big time.

> > > > Because he knows how to wind you up.

> > > >

> > > > Remember, you can't talk sense to crazy!

> > > >

> > > > If you trust your intuition, you will quickly know when your bro has

been drinking. You can make up a reason you have to get off the phone. He can't

hear your truth. You have the right to set boundaries and you can learn to do

that in ALANON.

> > > >

> > > > I have more to say, but you have my empathy. I feel completely alone in

my family.

> > > >

> > > > I am new to this forum. I just my mother. I have been in a severe

depression and have been feeling very isolated.

> > > > Glad to be here.

> > > >

> > > > Courage and self love to all.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > <3 ♫♪♫

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Martha, I can really relate to what you wrote. The only exception for me would

be that my mother is still alive and I have never adored her. My father passed

last year, and the " complicated grief " that I went through left me feeling

unglued at times. Though if you ask my family, they will say that it did not

effect me at all. That's because they are not safe for me to be real with.

Anything I say can and will be used against me.

I can see ways in which I have BPD-like traits, or fleas, but I am able to

control them and work with them through therapy. My therapist assures me that

in 11 years, she never diagnosed me as BPD, only as depressed.

But I can relate with you to being a food and TV addict, and having a family

full of addicts and drunk dialers (when you go to the extended family).

I really understand all of the things that you are grieving.

Lately, for me, I am trying to see things under the idea that people are just

doing what they know how to do to get by. It doesn't mean that everyone is a

" good enough " parent. It doesn't mean that I have to be someone's punching bag.

It just means that when my brother says that as his sister, it is my job to take

whatever he dishes out and he is unwilling to stop verbally assaulting me, that

is just where he is right now. That is why I block his email, and am prepared

to hang up the phone whenever I need to, to protect myself. That is *me* doing

what *I* need to do.

I have no idea who I am without the control and the shame of my family. No

idea!

I've shared this video before, but I'll share it again. This time I want to

point out the joyous way the little girl raises her arm in triumph when the

crowd roars for her (at 1:44). She is in the moment, expressing her joy, and I

swear to you, I don't remember ever feeling that kind of joy as a child. While

I am happy for her, this video also makes me sad for me.

http://www.gossipcop.com/jorge-alexa-narvaez-americas-got-talent-video-audition-\

performance/

I am definitely the family scapegoat too, and I don't see that changing. But I

do think I am learning to deal with it and not be as bothered by it as I was

before.

Deanna

>

> Thanks Deanna.

> In a previous email, I was trying to share that I just lost my mother. Her

death plunged me into major depression. I am just beginning to crawl out of that

black hole.

>

> In the past month I've had a lot of time to sift through my life. My

conclusion so far is that as much as I ultimately came to adore my mother, I

suspect she was BPD. or quite possibly Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I also

think this may be true for all my siblings, including ME. This, lying underneath

the alcoholism and addictions. Although I escaped the chemical dependency, I'm a

food addict for sure. Also, computer and tv. I think my most glaring addiction

is the addiction to being RIGHT! And a tendency to be very critical and see the

negative aspects. Decades of

> pain and feeling my family's favorite scapegoat have made me depressed and

bitter. Hopeless, even. Having said that, I believe my nature is joyous. But the

damaged personality due to early child abuse - (physical

beatings,raging,severely controlling, punishing, shaming alcoholic parents)

really clouded my otherwise sunny lens with a painful perception of life that I

then projected onto the unsafe world I see. (It has taken me my whole life up to

this point to be able to admit this).

>

> My mothers death is helping me to see what's true and what isn't true and

hopefully, with a lot of help and support, I will be able to retrieve my true

self out of all the painful rubble and go on to have the joyous, fulfilling,

rich, happy peaceful life I deserve to have. I have suffered for far too long. I

won't tell you how old I am, but trust me, I've been around a long time...so I

am not only grieving my mothers death, I am grieving the fulfilling life I was

not able to have, and all the time and opportunities lost. Up to this point. I

pray this is a major turning point for me. It feels like it.

>

> My heart goes out to all who struggle, and all who suffer.

>

> Peace be with you,

>

> Martha

[Guest guest]

You are SOooOooo right to resist getting sucked in to this TRAIN

WRECK! I hear you loud and clear that you want very limited contact

and I agree that it's a very healthy choice given he's unlikely to

change. Believe in yourself when you feel the outrage! He is NOT

entitled to treat you as his whipping boy nor entitled to keep a

relationship just because you share DNA. I'm glad to hear you're

protecting yourself. It was a good move to block his email to avoid

the emotional sucker punches that you knew would come (and did)! Keep

refusing to accept his poor treatment and may be it will diminish

(ever am I the optimist!) You can't control him, but you can make

positive, healthy choices for your life. It doesn't sound like he'll

be one of the chosen in your life =)!

Hugs

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your kind words !

Deanna

>

> You are SOooOooo right to resist getting sucked in to this TRAIN

> WRECK! I hear you loud and clear that you want very limited contact

> and I agree that it's a very healthy choice given he's unlikely to

> change. Believe in yourself when you feel the outrage! He is NOT

> entitled to treat you as his whipping boy nor entitled to keep a

> relationship just because you share DNA. I'm glad to hear you're

> protecting yourself. It was a good move to block his email to avoid

> the emotional sucker punches that you knew would come (and did)! Keep

> refusing to accept his poor treatment and may be it will diminish

> (ever am I the optimist!) You can't control him, but you can make

> positive, healthy choices for your life. It doesn't sound like he'll

> be one of the chosen in your life =)!

> Hugs

>

>