Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Hey , glad to have you aboard. I'm sure you can see how quite welcome you are here. Not everyone in here are ex-AA/NA people. I'm one of them. I thought I had " The Problem " and I feel fortunate enough to find this list to see alternative viewpoints of AA. I realized that it was just a compulsive behavior that I had and I was able to get over it. I do drink from time to time but I learn to savor it and not plow through the alcohol. I don't post very much, just for encouragement from time to time. Welcome aboard. Matt ===== I strive for the impossible, to be the best possible. - King Kamali __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Thanks for your reply; it's good to know I'm not alone in my opinion. Does your sister work in a pure 12-step facility? If so, what has she done to get around the required form of " treatment? " It seems as though anyone not living and talking through cliches and slogans are looked at with great suspicion around here. --- manypaths2 manypaths2@...> wrote: > Hi , > > I consider you to be a very valuable member of the > group. Your > observations are correct, 12-step programs are more > damaging > than helpful. The program is the exact opposite of > healthy > self-esteem building counseling. Personally, I still > have some > anger about the damage that the program had done to > me. The > 12-step cult is demeaning and dehumanizing to its > victims. It's > not an easy task to educate 12-steppers, they react > to new ideas > as if they were poisonous snakes. > > You can do it, my sister is a CD counselor, and > she's made > some progress. She has also recieved harrasing mail > and > phone calls from cult members. > > Best of luck to you, > > Devin > > > > > Hi! I'm a new member and wanted to introduce > myself > > and let you know why I'm here. I'm a formally > trained > > counselor that just started working in a > residential > > treatment facility. I've known basic things about > > 12-step programs, and of course learned a little > about > > them in Chemical Dependency classes, but have > > received the shock of my life over the past few > weeks > > seeing what really goes on. " Treatment " is > entirely > > based on AA/NA, and in my opinion more > > counter-productive than therapeutic. Much of what > is > > " taught " by the " counselors " is contradictory, and > > clients that question any aspect of treatment are > > insulted in an attempt to break their will. I > have > > always believed that a major goal of counseling > was to > > help clients build on their strengths, increase > their > > self-esteem, and empower them to take positive > control > > of their lives, so I am not at all comfortable > with > > any of this. > > > > I would appreciate your feedback and the > opportunity > > to continue as an active member of this group. > The > > comments I have read the past few days have > already > > been very helpful. > > > > Thanks-- > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 I've already seen and read enough to know my misgivings are valid, and am starting to feel that it is my professional obligation to continue to learn as much as I can and try to do something about it. I really appreciate your welcome! --- Arnold saintarnold71@...> wrote: > welcome to this list, Shelby. I am sure if you keep > reading you will find a great many illuminating > things! Most of us have been through that treatment > wringer and are simply chock-full of observations > and > experience. I think this list will make a nice > complement to your profession. Look forward to > reading your experiences. Its good to hear from > professionals. You folks are on the forefront of > this > whole thing. > --- shelljb51@... wrote: > > Hi! I'm a new member and wanted to introduce > myself > > and let you know why I'm here. I'm a formally > > trained > > counselor that just started working in a > residential > > treatment facility. I've known basic things about > > 12-step programs, and of course learned a little > > about > > them in Chemical Dependency classes, but have > > received the shock of my life over the past few > > weeks > > seeing what really goes on. " Treatment " is > entirely > > based on AA/NA, and in my opinion more > > counter-productive than therapeutic. Much of what > > is > > " taught " by the " counselors " is contradictory, and > > clients that question any aspect of treatment are > > insulted in an attempt to break their will. I > have > > always believed that a major goal of counseling > was > > to > > help clients build on their strengths, increase > > their > > self-esteem, and empower them to take positive > > control > > of their lives, so I am not at all comfortable > with > > any of this. > > > > I would appreciate your feedback and the > opportunity > > to continue as an active member of this group. > The > > comments I have read the past few days have > already > > been very helpful. > > > > Thanks-- > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Thanks for the links; haven't had time to read all of it yet, but found the article " Alcoholics Anonymous and the Counseling Profession--Philosophies in conflict " extremely helpful. I'm also planning to read Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions this weekend--if I can get through it. I had a great opportunity to call a client's attention to her strengths today, but before I had a chance to say anything, another counselor cut in and reminded her she had a fatal disease and could begin " using " again at any time. --- dmarcoot dmarcoot@...> wrote: > hi, glad you found this list. > bill wilson himself said one of goals of AA was to > break the > alcoholics will in order accept gods will. that is > the goal of the > 12-steps, that people in your field fail to > acknowledge that?all the > while pushing people into a religious program under > the guise > of " spirituality " ? is fraud and intellectual > dishonesty. > > a program which teaches self helplessness, > powerlesness, > self doubt , self loathing, group dependence and > provides no > tools for self reliance / responsibilty and living > life sober other > than hitting your knees and praying, can hardly be > expected to > teach self esteem. > > I recommend you read the works of stanton peele > (diseasing of > america) Schaler (addiction is a choice) ken raggae > (the real AA) > bufe (AA: cult or cure?) and check out the bookmarks > and files of > this group, where you will find links to their web > sites and > additional info including court cases and the > history of AA you > weren't taught. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12-step-free/links > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12-step-free/files > > > dave > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 You are definately fortunate to have more progressive treatment available. I've been doing more research, and it appears as if most facilities in the US are dominated by the 12-step philosophy. How long were you involved with AA? --- y marmoo1@...> wrote: > Welcome Shelby! > > I am a nurse in Australia. We are fortunate here, > that in our hospital > system, which is mostly public, the area of drug and > alcohol services is NOT > dominated by 12 steppers. There are private > facilities, and rehabs run by > the Salvation Army, that are pro-12 step, but they > are in the minority. I > have worked in hospital clinics that do detox, and > ongoing counselling, etc. > Although in my professional capabilities, I was only > doing medical stuff, I > learnt a lot about councillors approach to the > " substance abuse " health > issue. And it is mostly as you suggest it should > be. They try to avoid > labels, such as " alcoholic " or " addict " . It is > about behaviour, not > disease. Counselling is aimed at education and > behavioural modification. The > most effective tool is sitting down with some one, > and talking through the > pro and cons of drinking or using. Usually, when > it's written down on paper, > the person can make a choice about there drinking or > using. If they see it's > destructive, and can see the benefits of moderation, > or abstinence, they > have been empowered to change. It builds esteem , > and personal power. This > is 180 degrees opposite to the 12 step approach. > > I wish these services were around in 1980. I would > have avoided landing in > AA at a very young age. > > I hope you keep posting here, Shelby. I'm intending > to do some post graduate > study in drug and alcohol nursing, next year. My > goal is to work in the > service here in town, which all the steppers hate, > because it contradicts > their dogma. > > Barnsey > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Glad to know you are beginning to understand you are a strong person. Breaking the clients' wills, especially with the young clients that aren't even old enough to have emotionally and cognitively matured, is a crime to me. I'm very concerned for the teenagers that are led to believe they can't think for themselves; they are being stripped of the tools they will need to survive as adults. --- Tomboy tomboy@...> wrote: > If someone had given me some life skills, group > counselling , empowerment > classes and some basic self esteem courses when I > was about 14 , perhaps I > wouldn't have believed that I was diseased and > defective for literally the > next 29 years. Being introduced to XA programs at 14 > I have known nothing > else in my life. > A while back I thought that they had broken my will > but today I am > beginning to understand what an incredibly strong > person I am. > > kisses > Tom Boy > > > > At 03:16 PM 06/12/01 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi! I'm a new member and wanted to introduce > myself > >and let you know why I'm here. I'm a formally > trained > >counselor that just started working in a > residential > >treatment facility. I've known basic things about > >12-step programs, and of course learned a little > about > > them in Chemical Dependency classes, but have > >received the shock of my life over the past few > weeks > >seeing what really goes on. " Treatment " is > entirely > >based on AA/NA, and in my opinion more > >counter-productive than therapeutic. Much of what > is > > " taught " by the " counselors " is contradictory, and > >clients that question any aspect of treatment are > >insulted in an attempt to break their will. I have > >always believed that a major goal of counseling was > to > >help clients build on their strengths, increase > their > >self-esteem, and empower them to take positive > control > >of their lives, so I am not at all comfortable with > >any of this. > > > >I would appreciate your feedback and the > opportunity > >to continue as an active member of this group. The > >comments I have read the past few days have already > >been very helpful. > > > >Thanks-- > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Thanks for mentioning insurance $$$. I am appalled that residential treatment centers take in billions in insurance and Medicaid money, then subject clients to what appears to be nothing but hour after hour of 12-step indoctrination. Congrats on your sobriety, and on surviving treatment 3 times! --- JIM MORRIS doc77j@...> wrote: > Hey , Welcome > It's nice to see someone in you capacity see the > light. I have been in rehab 3x over the past 18 yrs, > forced there by an insignificant other and an > employer. Being a veteran I have concluded this as > to what rehab is. They are the " BOOT CAMPS " of > AA/NA. There the have you for 28 days, locked in > their clutches to feed you AA isms 24/7. When you > are done, they send you into battle to the > individual platoons of AA to be further brainwashed > into a complete submission of worthlessness. Me, I'd > rather go through boot camp and 10 tours of Vietnam, > than live my life as a " STEPPER " , at least when I > came out of the military, I still had a sense of > worthiness. AA and rehabs couldn't break this ole > soldier though. I've been sober now 18 mos, this > time without AA and rehab. I did counseling for a > while, outpatient style, just to make it look good > when I applied for SSI. They told me to of course go > to AA, do the 90-90 shit, but I told them if they > want to collect their $90 a week from my insurance > come, NIX the AA shit. IT WORKED MY WAY!!!! > Jim > > HELLO > > Hi! I'm a new member and wanted to introduce myself > and let you know why I'm here. I'm a formally > trained > counselor that just started working in a residential > treatment facility. I've known basic things about > 12-step programs, and of course learned a little > about > them in Chemical Dependency classes, but have > received the shock of my life over the past few > weeks > seeing what really goes on. " Treatment " is entirely > based on AA/NA, and in my opinion more > counter-productive than therapeutic. Much of what > is > " taught " by the " counselors " is contradictory, and > clients that question any aspect of treatment are > insulted in an attempt to break their will. I have > always believed that a major goal of counseling was > to > help clients build on their strengths, increase > their > self-esteem, and empower them to take positive > control > of their lives, so I am not at all comfortable with > any of this. > > I would appreciate your feedback and the opportunity > to continue as an active member of this group. The > comments I have read the past few days have already > been very helpful. > > Thanks-- > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 I was surprised when I started working and found that almost the entire staff was " in recovery " with no formal training or education, and there is a great deal of resentment toward me by some of the other " counselors. " I really get the feeling that I am not wanted there, but was hired as a last resort to satisfy new, stricter licensing requirements. At least half (probably more) of all group counseling and education sessions consist of employees telling their stories. I have also found counseling circles to be cruel; clients are expected to emotionally share intimate details of their lives, then are forced to accept ALL " feedback. " The few clients that have had enough guts to dispute inappropriate feedback have been told they were in denial and using other various defense mechanisms which would cause certain death from their disease. --- camouflage32790 camouflage32790@...> wrote: > " Treatment " is entirely > > based on AA/NA, and in my opinion more > > counter-productive than therapeutic. Much of what > is > > " taught " by the " counselors " is contradictory, and > > clients that question any aspect of treatment are > > insulted in an attempt to break their will. > > The problem with the " treatment " industry is that > most of the > counseling and care are done by people with no type > of schooling re: > psychology or medicine. Too many of the > " counselors " in residential > or out-patient drug/alcohol treatment facilities > have been former > patients and usually are AA or NA members. The > wages are very low in > the treatment industry and the work is very grueling > so this field > does not really attract many people with the proper > credentials. > Often, it is the opposite. The " gurus " of the > twelve-step programs > feel that they are on a " higher " plane so they have > this mistaken > conception that they can help someone else re: > addiction and the > problems that most likely came BEFORE the drugs or > booze. > > Most treatment facilities are hotbeds of abuse. The > patients are > often individually put in a circle while the > " counselor " and the > other residents hurl insults and often actually > throw objects at the > victim to break him/her so that s/he can molded into > a " new " person. > That is a very common practice in treatment. Female > patients often > get the harshest treatment. I had read how many > treatment facilities > make the women cut off their hair or wear it up and > try to obliterate > any of their feminine qualities. Nice clothing or > cosmetics were > taken away from the women and destroyed. The ladies > are often > subjected to the crueltiies of the " group " when > placed in the circle > and being told by the male patients how they were > like the " filthy > sluts " that they had sex with in their drug using > days. Speaking to > a male patient can lead to punishment for the female > resident. > > While in the rooms, I heard so many horror stories > from women who had > been in treatment. One lady, who was staying with > her sister, had > been contemplating going to a treatment center > despite all of the > things that she knew other ladies had experienced > since life at her > sister's home was difficult due to her > brother-in-law and that > troubled marriage. I recommended that the woman > return to New York > to her mother before signing herself into some > treatment facility > hell-hole where she would be further mistreated. > The only person I > knew that seemed to fare well from a treatment > center was my former > mother-in-law since her son (my ex-husband) could > afford to send her > to a fancy rehab where she was treated very well. > But my ex-MIL > never stopped drinking for whatever reason. > > > > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Thanks for the welcome! I'm glad you were able to find an alternative (before it was too late) and are able to manage your drinking. I've found everyone's comments and information very helpful so far. --- Pape mpape_1@...> wrote: > Hey , glad to have you aboard. I'm sure you > can > see how quite welcome you are here. Not everyone in > here are ex-AA/NA people. I'm one of them. I thought > I > had " The Problem " and I feel fortunate enough to > find > this list to see alternative viewpoints of AA. I > realized that it was just a compulsive behavior that > I > had and I was able to get over it. I do drink from > time to time but I learn to savor it and not plow > through the alcohol. > > I don't post very much, just for encouragement from > time to time. > > Welcome aboard. > > Matt > > ===== > I strive for the impossible, to be the best > possible. - King Kamali > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 Hey , You reminded me of my first go around at rehab. On your first day after admission, first thing the next day new pts ( or is it client) had to go before the entire staff (councelors, Psychologists etc) and sit in the center of a circle of those half wits, where they begin to break you down. When I was done with my turn, I was madder than a stirred up bee hive. For the next 27 days my councelor tried to bring me down to the point of tear (tears are in their mission statement!). She didn't break me down. I was told that I'll be drinking again and most likely die etc etc (you know the drill). The psychologist wanted to bring my parents in to belittle them too, blaming them for my drinking problem. It was all a part to get as many people in you life involved and thinking AA shit, so they can learn to belittle you even more when you get out. I heard so much shit from my girlfriend,parents etc, always quoting that I am the piece of shit the staff at rehab said I was. What a crock of shit that was. Instead of trying to solicite you family's help to support you, they want their brainwashing to continue even after you get out. In most cases, they get employers involved too, Thank God I was self employed, so they couldn't touch that part of my life. Jim May The Wind Be Always At Your Back!! > >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: Re: HELLO >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:47:49 -0800 (PST) > >I was surprised when I started working and found that >almost the entire staff was " in recovery " with no >formal training or education, and there is a great >deal of resentment toward me by some of the other > " counselors. " I really get the feeling that I am not >wanted there, but was hired as a last resort to >satisfy new, stricter licensing requirements. At >least half (probably more) of all group counseling and >education sessions consist of employees telling their >stories. I have also found counseling circles to be >cruel; clients are expected to emotionally share >intimate details of their lives, then are forced to >accept ALL " feedback. " The few clients that have had >enough guts to dispute inappropriate feedback have >been told they were in denial and using other various >defense mechanisms which would cause certain death >from their disease. >--- camouflage32790 camouflage32790@...> wrote: > > " Treatment " is entirely > > > based on AA/NA, and in my opinion more > > > counter-productive than therapeutic. Much of what > > is > > > " taught " by the " counselors " is contradictory, and > > > clients that question any aspect of treatment are > > > insulted in an attempt to break their will. > > > > The problem with the " treatment " industry is that > > most of the > > counseling and care are done by people with no type > > of schooling re: > > psychology or medicine. Too many of the > > " counselors " in residential > > or out-patient drug/alcohol treatment facilities > > have been former > > patients and usually are AA or NA members. The > > wages are very low in > > the treatment industry and the work is very grueling > > so this field > > does not really attract many people with the proper > > credentials. > > Often, it is the opposite. The " gurus " of the > > twelve-step programs > > feel that they are on a " higher " plane so they have > > this mistaken > > conception that they can help someone else re: > > addiction and the > > problems that most likely came BEFORE the drugs or > > booze. > > > > Most treatment facilities are hotbeds of abuse. The > > patients are > > often individually put in a circle while the > > " counselor " and the > > other residents hurl insults and often actually > > throw objects at the > > victim to break him/her so that s/he can molded into > > a " new " person. > > That is a very common practice in treatment. Female > > patients often > > get the harshest treatment. I had read how many > > treatment facilities > > make the women cut off their hair or wear it up and > > try to obliterate > > any of their feminine qualities. Nice clothing or > > cosmetics were > > taken away from the women and destroyed. The ladies > > are often > > subjected to the crueltiies of the " group " when > > placed in the circle > > and being told by the male patients how they were > > like the " filthy > > sluts " that they had sex with in their drug using > > days. Speaking to > > a male patient can lead to punishment for the female > > resident. > > > > While in the rooms, I heard so many horror stories > > from women who had > > been in treatment. One lady, who was staying with > > her sister, had > > been contemplating going to a treatment center > > despite all of the > > things that she knew other ladies had experienced > > since life at her > > sister's home was difficult due to her > > brother-in-law and that > > troubled marriage. I recommended that the woman > > return to New York > > to her mother before signing herself into some > > treatment facility > > hell-hole where she would be further mistreated. > > The only person I > > knew that seemed to fare well from a treatment > > center was my former > > mother-in-law since her son (my ex-husband) could > > afford to send her > > to a fancy rehab where she was treated very well. > > But my ex-MIL > > never stopped drinking for whatever reason. > > > > > > > > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 Thanks Corky, I am not really on Atkins yet. I want to attend the diabetic class with my husband first. Then I will make up my mind. However, I am here to learn. SylviaCandy, Dodo, Ginger, Honey Hello Hello Sylvia, I hope you like our list. Joya has told me some about your rescue efforts. You must be a very special person to do that. I hope you are successful with Atkins, is this your first time trying it? If it is, DON"T CHEAT. I did, and can't seem to get back on it. Jump right in and let us know you. a*Take a peek at the Challengers "Before" pictures in our 2002 photo album at our Yahoo page, click on photos 2002 or try directly at: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/atkinschallengers/lst?.dir=/ & .src=gr & .view=t *Would you like some great RECIPES? Click here:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AtkinsChallengers/files*To contact any of the the list moderators, you can email them at: (jocee131@...) Norma (norwood@...) JJ (cybercat1@...) Dianne (lambart@...) Joya (bocock@...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 Welcome Sylvia Glad to have you aboard. Norma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2002 Report Share Posted August 20, 2002 Sharon, Hi!! I do ww on my own and have never gone to a meeting. We have a lot of tools (journals, points, point calculators, weight and activity trackers, etc), also recipies in the Files section at the site. We also have a lot of helpful sites bookmarked. It is very possible to work this program on your own and come to the site for support and encouragement. Maureen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 I used to have joint pain but don't anymore. Does anyone else have muscle pain and tightness in their thighs? Anyone found muscle relaxants helpful? Anyone find that one side is markedly worse than the other? I'm afraid I've come to that stage where I've given up on Drs and am trying to find out for myself what's going on. I'd like to stay on the list for a while, I enjoyed it last time. best, Deb Hi Deb!! I have never used muscle relaxants for my PM. I did have some over Christmas for what they thought was a pulled muscle and I did feel better but I am not sure if it's because they made me so tired that I slept a lot or if it actually was helping!!! I get tightness and pain in my hips and thighs. Those are the worst spots (next to my elbows and knees) for pain. Please don't give up on doctor's. I know there are some real jerks out there. Lord knows that I had the majority of them myself, but if you give up on that, you give up on yourself. You are worth more than that! Where are you located? Maybe someone on the group can refer you to someone else. Take care, zanna Zanna's Myositis Story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Cindy, I can't remember what the relaxer was called.....Sorry! Sometimes you feel awful like everything is stopping. I got so depressed a year ago. I was so sick and thought I had to be dying. I thought my body was just shutting down and I was surely going to be dead soon! I decided that I needed to get on some anti-depressants quick because the worry alone was making me crazy. I have been on them for almost a year now and can honestly say it has helped immensely. I do feel better physically too so that makes a big difference. The IVIg has helped a lot! We didn't do anything bad today, just toilet papered a house or two, egged a couple of cars, played some ding-dong-ditch and had a few beers. That's all!!!! LOL.... Vicki brought her drawing today to show us. It is so beautiful. It was amazing. She is so talented. I showed all of them the book that Annette illustrated and everyone loved it. It was very nice to sit at home rather than a restaurant and just relax and not worry about the table next to us or having to leave, etc.... Zanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Zanna may I ask if you remember the muscle relaxer was called. I hate taking oxycontin, but it does help with the tensing of muscles I do when I am in pain. So many symptoms and problems many of you have sound like me. If they would have done the biopsy in the right place I wonder if they may be treating me different now, at least different meds. I can't take prednisone, what other meds are their for myositis? I have been getting much weaker and tired. If I didn't know better I would think things are shutting down on me. Poor hubby has to work all day and come home to make supper, I can't hold any thing to even get supper made. I am so frustrated and I feel bad for my kids. Oh well tomorrow may be better. Thats what I keep telling myself. You guys are great. What type of trouble do you all get into over your lunch, come on tell the secrets. LOLL Cindy & Willow(SDIT) Re: hello I used to have joint pain but don't anymore. Does anyone else have muscle pain and tightness in their thighs? Anyone found muscle relaxants helpful? Anyone find that one side is markedly worse than the other?I'm afraid I've come to that stage where I've given up on Drs and am trying to find out for myself what's going on. I'd like to stay on the list for a while, I enjoyed it last time.best,DebHi Deb!!I have never used muscle relaxants for my PM. I did have some over Christmas for what they thought was a pulled muscle and I did feel better but I am not sure if it's because they made me so tired that I slept a lot or if it actually was helping!!!I get tightness and pain in my hips and thighs. Those are the worst spots (next to my elbows and knees) for pain.Please don't give up on doctor's. I know there are some real jerks out there. Lord knows that I had the majority of them myself, but if you give up on that, you give up on yourself. You are worth more than that! Where are you located? Maybe someone on the group can refer you to someone else.Take care,zannaZanna's Myositis Story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.