a hard decision

[Guest guest]

my dad called yesterday. I was feeling so much better about myself and life in

general before that. contact from him (with nada coaching in the background)

never fails to through me off.

I was trying to keep things simple. my dad asked very direct questions, and made

me feel like crap.

DH is choosing his career right now. we were trying to keep things to ourselves

until we made a decision, but I was so caught off guard by the time he called

and that he called at all (I have not talked to him in years, not by choice, but

becasue he ignores that I exist except to send me nasty e-mails every now and

then.)

nada and my dad are supportive of nothing. I really don't get why. I grew up

hearing how important education is and how we all should set goals and " be

finishers " my dad has his ideals, and no interest in us as people.

I would think that DH being the most educated person in the family would please

him, but he he seems to think that DH (a very well published scientist) is

wasting his time. are you kidding me? I found myself defending DH, and trying to

explain to him how much the places we are deciding between are contending for

him to come there. which is true, but it made me mad that I felt so judged and

wanted to defend DH.

one of the options is much closer to " home " than we are now. and my dad seemed

delighted that we might move there. why? seriously? so they can pigeonhole me

again and undo all of my hard work? so I can take my rightful place in our

perfect family?

DH is being so kind. he reminded me that I don't have to ever go to my home town

again if I don't want to. (I was severely bullied (which Nada supported, and

also denied/s happened) and most of the bullies still live there.) and if I

don't want to have her stay with me she never will again. I dread the judgement

of the family who live in that area. I have tried so hard for most of my life to

prove I am a contributor to my family. I was a scapegoat, and held responsible

for all of the families " contention " becasue I " always react wrong " when being

mistreated. " react wrong " is crying, and when I was younger trying to get

siblings in trouble. what garbage.

this is a very hard decision anyway. it determines the path of DH's whole

career. I am leaving tomorrow to visit one of options with him I just want to

enjoy myself, and leave nada in the dust. it is so hard to think straight when

all I want right now is to get as far from her an her sick denial as possible.

if I live closer I will have to set a huge number of boundaries, and there will

be hell to pay.

LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!

Meikjn

[Guest guest]

Sorry that conversation caught you off guard and was unnerving. Is your dad a

Narcissist by any chance? They like to be the ones telling everyone else what to

do with their lives, and hate it when someone doesn't take their brilliant

advice.

It sounds like your DH is very supportive, which is great! And you seem very

supportive of him as well. That sounds like a good partnership.

Just remember, you don't have to share any information that isn't helpful for

you to share. Your parent's don't have to know where you are, or when, whether

you're just in town for a weekend or for good. Sometimes, I think if I ever move

again, I will just get a P.O. Box and give that as my new mailing address. I can

still get things from trusted friends at my house but my parents won't ever know

where I live.

For the record, my nada kept trying to get me to move back to my hometown, too.

Very pushy to my DH when he was finishing school and looking for work. Nothing

like having your favorite abuse victim come back to be with you again, I

guess...she's probably still dreaming of that day.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

(((((Meijkin)))))

It sounds like you were " ambushed " by phone; I'm so sorry. My nada used to do

that to me. After getting " ambushed " , I would feel really ill for hours (and I

mean headache with vomiting, etc., level of ill.) So eventually I learned to

screen ALL my calls to avoid that nasty consequence.

This is just my own opinion and you must do what feels the most workable to you,

but I think that like me, you have not been able to achieve a real emotional

detachment from your parents and foo. You still care deeply about their opinion

of you, and you want them to show that they are proud of you, approve of you,

and love you. But your family of origin may not be capable of that.

If you can somehow stop caring what they think of you, which means giving up the

hope that they will change and miraculously begin to show you love, validation

and approval, then they won't have the power to hurt you anymore. Or, at

least, the hurt will be brief and superficial, not life-alteringly massive.

One way to achieve a greater level of emotional detachment, which I was never

able to achieve while my nada was still alive, is to allow yourself to feel real

anger at your pd parents for treating you so abominably. People like us were

trained from birth that we had no right to feel angry about anything, and that

we deserved to be treated the way we were.

So, perhaps, actually allowing yourself to feel the righteous indignation, and

express it, would help you.

You can feel self-protective, righteous anger and still be polite, as in: " Oh,

its you. I'm sorry, I don't wish to be rude, but I really have nothing to say

to you and I don't wish to hear what you may have to say to me. I'm hanging up

the phone now, and I won't be responding to any attempts at contact in the

future. Contact from you is unwelcome and unwanted. Goodbye. " (said in a

tepid or neutral tone of voice, indicating your complete indifference as to how

your message is received, as though you are speaking with a stranger.)

I wasn't able to do that, but maybe you can, if it resonates with you and feels

right for you.

Instead, I went No Contact in a very indirect way. I lied; I made my nada think

I was initiating temporary No Contact, but I knew I just couldn't take it

anymore and never wanted to speak with her again.

In any case, I hope you will find something that will work for you, whatever

that is, that will give you peace and protection from further emotional injury

by your toxic family of origin.

You deserve to be free of their power to hurt you any longer, but only you can

figure out *how* to break the chain of their power over you.

-Annie

>

> my dad called yesterday. I was feeling so much better about myself and life in

general before that. contact from him (with nada coaching in the background)

never fails to through me off.

>

> I was trying to keep things simple. my dad asked very direct questions, and

made me feel like crap.

>

> DH is choosing his career right now. we were trying to keep things to

ourselves until we made a decision, but I was so caught off guard by the time he

called and that he called at all (I have not talked to him in years, not by

choice, but becasue he ignores that I exist except to send me nasty e-mails

every now and then.)

>

> nada and my dad are supportive of nothing. I really don't get why. I grew up

hearing how important education is and how we all should set goals and " be

finishers " my dad has his ideals, and no interest in us as people.

>

> I would think that DH being the most educated person in the family would

please him, but he he seems to think that DH (a very well published scientist)

is wasting his time. are you kidding me? I found myself defending DH, and trying

to explain to him how much the places we are deciding between are contending for

him to come there. which is true, but it made me mad that I felt so judged and

wanted to defend DH.

>

> one of the options is much closer to " home " than we are now. and my dad seemed

delighted that we might move there. why? seriously? so they can pigeonhole me

again and undo all of my hard work? so I can take my rightful place in our

perfect family?

>

> DH is being so kind. he reminded me that I don't have to ever go to my home

town again if I don't want to. (I was severely bullied (which Nada supported,

and also denied/s happened) and most of the bullies still live there.) and if I

don't want to have her stay with me she never will again. I dread the judgement

of the family who live in that area. I have tried so hard for most of my life to

prove I am a contributor to my family. I was a scapegoat, and held responsible

for all of the families " contention " becasue I " always react wrong " when being

mistreated. " react wrong " is crying, and when I was younger trying to get

siblings in trouble. what garbage.

>

>

> this is a very hard decision anyway. it determines the path of DH's whole

career. I am leaving tomorrow to visit one of options with him I just want to

enjoy myself, and leave nada in the dust. it is so hard to think straight when

all I want right now is to get as far from her an her sick denial as possible.

>

> if I live closer I will have to set a huge number of boundaries, and there

will be hell to pay.

>

> LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!

>

> Meikjn

>

[Guest guest]

" One way to achieve a greater level of emotional detachment, which I was never

able to achieve while my nada was still alive, is to allow yourself to feel real

anger at your pd parents for treating you so abominably. "

This. Once I allowed myself to get downright p!ssed about their behavior it was

much easier to just see them as two elderly crazy people.

> >

> > my dad called yesterday. I was feeling so much better about myself and life

in general before that. contact from him (with nada coaching in the background)

never fails to through me off.

> >

> > I was trying to keep things simple. my dad asked very direct questions, and

made me feel like crap.

> >

> > DH is choosing his career right now. we were trying to keep things to

ourselves until we made a decision, but I was so caught off guard by the time he

called and that he called at all (I have not talked to him in years, not by

choice, but becasue he ignores that I exist except to send me nasty e-mails

every now and then.)

> >

> > nada and my dad are supportive of nothing. I really don't get why. I grew up

hearing how important education is and how we all should set goals and " be

finishers " my dad has his ideals, and no interest in us as people.

> >

> > I would think that DH being the most educated person in the family would

please him, but he he seems to think that DH (a very well published scientist)

is wasting his time. are you kidding me? I found myself defending DH, and trying

to explain to him how much the places we are deciding between are contending for

him to come there. which is true, but it made me mad that I felt so judged and

wanted to defend DH.

> >

> > one of the options is much closer to " home " than we are now. and my dad

seemed delighted that we might move there. why? seriously? so they can

pigeonhole me again and undo all of my hard work? so I can take my rightful

place in our perfect family?

> >

> > DH is being so kind. he reminded me that I don't have to ever go to my home

town again if I don't want to. (I was severely bullied (which Nada supported,

and also denied/s happened) and most of the bullies still live there.) and if I

don't want to have her stay with me she never will again. I dread the judgement

of the family who live in that area. I have tried so hard for most of my life to

prove I am a contributor to my family. I was a scapegoat, and held responsible

for all of the families " contention " becasue I " always react wrong " when being

mistreated. " react wrong " is crying, and when I was younger trying to get

siblings in trouble. what garbage.

> >

> >

> > this is a very hard decision anyway. it determines the path of DH's whole

career. I am leaving tomorrow to visit one of options with him I just want to

enjoy myself, and leave nada in the dust. it is so hard to think straight when

all I want right now is to get as far from her an her sick denial as possible.

> >

> > if I live closer I will have to set a huge number of boundaries, and there

will be hell to pay.

> >

> > LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!

> >

> > Meikjn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Meikjn,

Have you considered how you will lay down and stick to your boundaries? If you

decide to move closer to home you may find them testing your

determination/strength/patience (have I understated?). Your description of your

hometown makes me think of a lair.

I personally would remember the worst that happened to me and ask myself if I

were really ready to protect myself if faced with that again and if so how. But

my experience is that it not just once but usually an ongoing set of behaviours

and that it wears me down over time. I don't want to sway you with my own bad

experiences though.

Hope you feel more settled after your shake-down from your dad.

Lavender

>

> my dad called yesterday. I was feeling so much better about myself and life in

general before that. contact from him (with nada coaching in the background)

never fails to through me off.

>

> I was trying to keep things simple. my dad asked very direct questions, and

made me feel like crap.

>

> DH is choosing his career right now. we were trying to keep things to

ourselves until we made a decision, but I was so caught off guard by the time he

called and that he called at all (I have not talked to him in years, not by

choice, but becasue he ignores that I exist except to send me nasty e-mails

every now and then.)

>

> nada and my dad are supportive of nothing. I really don't get why. I grew up

hearing how important education is and how we all should set goals and " be

finishers " my dad has his ideals, and no interest in us as people.

>

> I would think that DH being the most educated person in the family would

please him, but he he seems to think that DH (a very well published scientist)

is wasting his time. are you kidding me? I found myself defending DH, and trying

to explain to him how much the places we are deciding between are contending for

him to come there. which is true, but it made me mad that I felt so judged and

wanted to defend DH.

>

> one of the options is much closer to " home " than we are now. and my dad seemed

delighted that we might move there. why? seriously? so they can pigeonhole me

again and undo all of my hard work? so I can take my rightful place in our

perfect family?

>

> DH is being so kind. he reminded me that I don't have to ever go to my home

town again if I don't want to. (I was severely bullied (which Nada supported,

and also denied/s happened) and most of the bullies still live there.) and if I

don't want to have her stay with me she never will again. I dread the judgement

of the family who live in that area. I have tried so hard for most of my life to

prove I am a contributor to my family. I was a scapegoat, and held responsible

for all of the families " contention " becasue I " always react wrong " when being

mistreated. " react wrong " is crying, and when I was younger trying to get

siblings in trouble. what garbage.

>

>

> this is a very hard decision anyway. it determines the path of DH's whole

career. I am leaving tomorrow to visit one of options with him I just want to

enjoy myself, and leave nada in the dust. it is so hard to think straight when

all I want right now is to get as far from her an her sick denial as possible.

>

> if I live closer I will have to set a huge number of boundaries, and there

will be hell to pay.

>

> LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!

>

> Meikjn

>

[Guest guest]

Meikjn,

Here's an idea for your first boundary:

Fada: " I think DH is wasting his time. "

You: " OK, so how's the weather out there? "

Fada: " Really, he's an idiot. "

You: " I'm done discussing this topic with you. Let's change the subject. "

Fada: " Why is he doing that? "

You: " OK, since you won't get off the topic, I'm hanging up now. "

*click*

--Deanna

>

> my dad called yesterday. I was feeling so much better about myself and life in

general before that. contact from him (with nada coaching in the background)

never fails to through me off.

>

> I was trying to keep things simple. my dad asked very direct questions, and

made me feel like crap.

>

> DH is choosing his career right now. we were trying to keep things to

ourselves until we made a decision, but I was so caught off guard by the time he

called and that he called at all (I have not talked to him in years, not by

choice, but becasue he ignores that I exist except to send me nasty e-mails

every now and then.)

>

> nada and my dad are supportive of nothing. I really don't get why. I grew up

hearing how important education is and how we all should set goals and " be

finishers " my dad has his ideals, and no interest in us as people.

>

> I would think that DH being the most educated person in the family would

please him, but he he seems to think that DH (a very well published scientist)

is wasting his time. are you kidding me? I found myself defending DH, and trying

to explain to him how much the places we are deciding between are contending for

him to come there. which is true, but it made me mad that I felt so judged and

wanted to defend DH.

>

> one of the options is much closer to " home " than we are now. and my dad seemed

delighted that we might move there. why? seriously? so they can pigeonhole me

again and undo all of my hard work? so I can take my rightful place in our

perfect family?

>

> DH is being so kind. he reminded me that I don't have to ever go to my home

town again if I don't want to. (I was severely bullied (which Nada supported,

and also denied/s happened) and most of the bullies still live there.) and if I

don't want to have her stay with me she never will again. I dread the judgement

of the family who live in that area. I have tried so hard for most of my life to

prove I am a contributor to my family. I was a scapegoat, and held responsible

for all of the families " contention " becasue I " always react wrong " when being

mistreated. " react wrong " is crying, and when I was younger trying to get

siblings in trouble. what garbage.

>

>

> this is a very hard decision anyway. it determines the path of DH's whole

career. I am leaving tomorrow to visit one of options with him I just want to

enjoy myself, and leave nada in the dust. it is so hard to think straight when

all I want right now is to get as far from her an her sick denial as possible.

>

> if I live closer I will have to set a huge number of boundaries, and there

will be hell to pay.

>

> LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!

>

> Meikjn

>

[Guest guest]

Wow Meikjn, that's just such a shame that your father has to be like that. They

do seem to have a special instinct about how to torpedo you feeling better and

optimistic for the future. This is just my opinion of course, but I'd say no

way in hell should you move closer to " home " . A marriage is a partnership and

even if the option for your DH that is near them is the best one it is a choice

that will be very negative for you. It sounds like he has many good options and

is valued in his career, taking one of the other options won't put you guys out

on the street or destroy his future. However, taking the closer option will

put you in a position of having a harder fight to maintain your boundaries for

who knows how many years. Your future is being decided here too, not just your

husband's. Over and over I've seen situations where because the man is the

major bread winner the woman is expected to sacrifice to support that. And

sometimes that makes sense *up to a point* but when his best path is actually

harmful to the woman that's another story. You matter too Meikjn.

Lobster

>

> my dad called yesterday. I was feeling so much better about myself and life in

general before that. contact from him (with nada coaching in the background)

never fails to through me off.

>

> I was trying to keep things simple. my dad asked very direct questions, and

made me feel like crap.

>

> DH is choosing his career right now. we were trying to keep things to

ourselves until we made a decision, but I was so caught off guard by the time he

called and that he called at all (I have not talked to him in years, not by

choice, but becasue he ignores that I exist except to send me nasty e-mails

every now and then.)

>

> nada and my dad are supportive of nothing. I really don't get why. I grew up

hearing how important education is and how we all should set goals and " be

finishers " my dad has his ideals, and no interest in us as people.

>

> I would think that DH being the most educated person in the family would

please him, but he he seems to think that DH (a very well published scientist)

is wasting his time. are you kidding me? I found myself defending DH, and trying

to explain to him how much the places we are deciding between are contending for

him to come there. which is true, but it made me mad that I felt so judged and

wanted to defend DH.

>

> one of the options is much closer to " home " than we are now. and my dad seemed

delighted that we might move there. why? seriously? so they can pigeonhole me

again and undo all of my hard work? so I can take my rightful place in our

perfect family?

>

> DH is being so kind. he reminded me that I don't have to ever go to my home

town again if I don't want to. (I was severely bullied (which Nada supported,

and also denied/s happened) and most of the bullies still live there.) and if I

don't want to have her stay with me she never will again. I dread the judgement

of the family who live in that area. I have tried so hard for most of my life to

prove I am a contributor to my family. I was a scapegoat, and held responsible

for all of the families " contention " becasue I " always react wrong " when being

mistreated. " react wrong " is crying, and when I was younger trying to get

siblings in trouble. what garbage.

>

>

> this is a very hard decision anyway. it determines the path of DH's whole

career. I am leaving tomorrow to visit one of options with him I just want to

enjoy myself, and leave nada in the dust. it is so hard to think straight when

all I want right now is to get as far from her an her sick denial as possible.

>

> if I live closer I will have to set a huge number of boundaries, and there

will be hell to pay.

>

> LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!

>

> Meikjn

>

[Guest guest]

the " closer " job is still a 6 hr drive from my hometown. the problem is that my

family is expected to get together for EVERYTHING. and when we don't we will get

a truckload of crap. also the job is in a town where many of my cousins and

nadas mom (a nice lady and a plus to the choice) live there. I guess I am just

getting worried that nada will think that us moving there is an indication that

my " phase " is over, and jump head first back into whatever she wants.

boundaries for wherever we move:

Nada will not stay at my house.and I will not stay at theirs.

I will not be alone with her (that is when the worst abuse happens)

I won't talk to her on the phone right now, that might last a while too.

I tried to set a boundary recently on how she talks to me and she replied that

that is just how she communicates and she can't understand that there is

anything wrong with it and intends to " never communicate with me again " I guess

that is why my dad is suddenly so interested in me.

as for hanging up on him, he is much more passive aggressive than that, so even

if I see it (I did this time) it is really hard to respond to in real time. on

the upside he is not much of a talker, so he keeps it short.

I agree that this is my decision too. DH is more than willing to support and

take an active role in our boundaries. I will just have to work much harder at

it if we are that much closer. (we are about a 24 hr. drive now)and that is

hard.

my parents are planning to go out as missionaries next year (they do it to keep

up with the pious) for a while, so I still might get a long enough break.

Meikjn

> >

> > my dad called yesterday. I was feeling so much better about myself and life

in general before that. contact from him (with nada coaching in the background)

never fails to through me off.

> >

> > I was trying to keep things simple. my dad asked very direct questions, and

made me feel like crap.

> >

> > DH is choosing his career right now. we were trying to keep things to

ourselves until we made a decision, but I was so caught off guard by the time he

called and that he called at all (I have not talked to him in years, not by

choice, but becasue he ignores that I exist except to send me nasty e-mails

every now and then.)

> >

> > nada and my dad are supportive of nothing. I really don't get why. I grew up

hearing how important education is and how we all should set goals and " be

finishers " my dad has his ideals, and no interest in us as people.

> >

> > I would think that DH being the most educated person in the family would

please him, but he he seems to think that DH (a very well published scientist)

is wasting his time. are you kidding me? I found myself defending DH, and trying

to explain to him how much the places we are deciding between are contending for

him to come there. which is true, but it made me mad that I felt so judged and

wanted to defend DH.

> >

> > one of the options is much closer to " home " than we are now. and my dad

seemed delighted that we might move there. why? seriously? so they can

pigeonhole me again and undo all of my hard work? so I can take my rightful

place in our perfect family?

> >

> > DH is being so kind. he reminded me that I don't have to ever go to my home

town again if I don't want to. (I was severely bullied (which Nada supported,

and also denied/s happened) and most of the bullies still live there.) and if I

don't want to have her stay with me she never will again. I dread the judgement

of the family who live in that area. I have tried so hard for most of my life to

prove I am a contributor to my family. I was a scapegoat, and held responsible

for all of the families " contention " becasue I " always react wrong " when being

mistreated. " react wrong " is crying, and when I was younger trying to get

siblings in trouble. what garbage.

> >

> >

> > this is a very hard decision anyway. it determines the path of DH's whole

career. I am leaving tomorrow to visit one of options with him I just want to

enjoy myself, and leave nada in the dust. it is so hard to think straight when

all I want right now is to get as far from her an her sick denial as possible.

> >

> > if I live closer I will have to set a huge number of boundaries, and there

will be hell to pay.

> >

> > LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!

> >

> > Meikjn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> as for hanging up on him, he is much more passive aggressive than that, so

even if I see it (I did this time) it is really hard to respond to in real time.

GAH! Don't I know it!

Deanna

[Guest guest]

You wrote: " ...the problem is that my family is expected to get together for

EVERYTHING. and when we don't we will get a truckload of crap... "

So I suggest you ask yourself, " So what? " When they begin verbally abusing

you/loading crap on you, you can hang up, politely or impolitely: your choice.

If your family of origin becomes upset with you for silly reasons, then, so

what? Who cares? Their behavior indicates that they don't really care about

*your* feelings, doesn't it?

They're only interested in appearances: the " look " of a close-knit family, but

its only meaningless surface stuff. The reality is that pretty frequently if

not constantly your foo treats you like, well, dirt: with contempt, disdain, as

though you are slightly feeble-minded, or selfish, or lazy, or ungrateful, or

otherwise undeserving of their respect.

AKA, they treat you as the family scapegoat, the all-bad child.

So, if that is the case, then why do you care if they become upset with you?

My guess is that when you can answer that question, that will be the first step

in deciding that you really don't need their approval any longer, that you are

just fine without the foo's approval or validation, and you'll be able to say

things like " No " and " I'm sorry but that just won't work for me, maybe next

time. " or " I won't listen to you when you say disrespectful things like that

about my husband. I'm hanging up now. " without feeling a smidgeon of guilt.

-Annie

>

> the " closer " job is still a 6 hr drive from my hometown. the problem is that

my family is expected to get together for EVERYTHING. and when we don't we will

get a truckload of crap. also the job is in a town where many of my cousins and

nadas mom (a nice lady and a plus to the choice) live there. I guess I am just

getting worried that nada will think that us moving there is an indication that

my " phase " is over, and jump head first back into whatever she wants.

>

> boundaries for wherever we move:

>

> Nada will not stay at my house.and I will not stay at theirs.

> I will not be alone with her (that is when the worst abuse happens)

> I won't talk to her on the phone right now, that might last a while too.

>

> I tried to set a boundary recently on how she talks to me and she replied that

that is just how she communicates and she can't understand that there is

anything wrong with it and intends to " never communicate with me again " I guess

that is why my dad is suddenly so interested in me.

>

> as for hanging up on him, he is much more passive aggressive than that, so

even if I see it (I did this time) it is really hard to respond to in real time.

on the upside he is not much of a talker, so he keeps it short.

>

> I agree that this is my decision too. DH is more than willing to support and

take an active role in our boundaries. I will just have to work much harder at

it if we are that much closer. (we are about a 24 hr. drive now)and that is

hard.

>

> my parents are planning to go out as missionaries next year (they do it to

keep up with the pious) for a while, so I still might get a long enough break.

> Meikjn