Advice for confronting a parent about BPD

[Guest guest]

New to the group here.

Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not want to

recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of course, gets upset

and says she has had all the tests done but is only passive aggressive.

Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD that left

me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother. I'm grown up,

gone to college, married and started a family, and moved across the country to

escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across the street to get to know her

grandson better. However, I do not tolerate bad behavior in my home and will

not stay in her home if anyone starts yelling or fighting. So far, these rules

have been clear enough and there have been minor problems around my family.

Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is the way

she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her personality

disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous reliance on drugs. He's

very reasonable about their problems when I talk to him alone, but I understand

so well how powerless and trapped you can feel when fighting with our mother

over a problem you don't entirely understand. You wind up questioning your own

sanity. I'm terrified he will kill or severely hurt himself with his drug

addictions and am trying to figure out a way to approach my mom without scaring

her off. In the past, I offered to take custody so she could have some time to

rest, after some bad problems with him and she didn't let him come to visit me

for two years.

I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who have been

through similar problems. Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I'm not a drug or addiction counselor, but I think what you have to realize

is that even though your mother may bear a significant chunk of

responsibility for your brother's turning to drugs, you can't fix him by

fixing her or by getting her to acknowledge she helped cause the problem

(even if she would acknowledge such a thing, which the vast majority of

BPDs will NOT.) Your brother needs help in his own right. You might want

to contact some rehab programs in your area and talk to a counselor about

the best way to approach your brother and encourage him to seek help for

his problem. Simply identifying your mother's issue isn't likely to be

enough to repair what's gone wrong with your brother at this point.

Find some good sources of information on the topic and follow their

recommendations, would be my advice. And worry more about your brother

than your mother at this point -- at 16, he still has an excellent change

to repair his life and do well. She probably doesn't.

-- Jen H.

> **

>

>

> New to the group here.

> Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not want

> to recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of course, gets

> upset and says she has had all the tests done but is only passive

> aggressive.

> Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD that

> left me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother. I'm

> grown up, gone to college, married and started a family, and moved across

> the country to escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across the street

> to get to know her grandson better. However, I do not tolerate bad behavior

> in my home and will not stay in her home if anyone starts yelling or

> fighting. So far, these rules have been clear enough and there have been

> minor problems around my family.

> Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is the

> way she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her

> personality disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous reliance

> on drugs. He's very reasonable about their problems when I talk to him

> alone, but I understand so well how powerless and trapped you can feel when

> fighting with our mother over a problem you don't entirely understand. You

> wind up questioning your own sanity. I'm terrified he will kill or severely

> hurt himself with his drug addictions and am trying to figure out a way to

> approach my mom without scaring her off. In the past, I offered to take

> custody so she could have some time to rest, after some bad problems with

> him and she didn't let him come to visit me for two years.

> I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who have

> been through similar problems. Thanks!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Most of us have experience with a parent who won't admit to

having BPD. Very few people who have BPD are willing to admit

that they have a personality disorder or that there is anything

wrong with the way they behave. It goes beyond the way normal

people sometimes deny problems. BPD itself causes the people who

have it to be unable to understand that there is anything wrong

with them. They think everyone who complains or doesn't do what

they want has a problem, not them. If a professional makes the

diagnosis they generally stop seeing that professional rather

than accept the diagnosis. So you're very unlikely to be able to

convince her that she has a problem. Even if you could get her

to admit to having a problem, she'd still have to want to change

and need extensive on-going treatment to change. Treatment

doesn't make BPD go away. It tries to teach those who have it

better ways of dealing with it. In other words, talking to her

about it is likely to cause more problems, not solve the

existing problems. Talking to her about your brother might make

things worse for him. If he'd gotten into illegal drugs to

escape from dealing with her and she comes down on him about

doing drugs his reaction might well be to do more drugs not

less.

You might have better luck with convincing your brother to get

help for himself. How much time does he spend with you now that

they've moved to be near you? The best things you can do for him

might be to be there when he needs a safe refuge and to set a

good example of how to deal with her. A sympathetic adult who

understands the problem can be a huge help. Does your brother

know about BPD? If not, understanding more about what is wrong

with her might help him develop better coping mechanisms.

At 12:47 AM 06/14/2012 atieszenbpd wrote:

>New to the group here.

>Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who

>does not want to recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning

>it, she, of course, gets upset and says she has had all the

>tests done but is only passive aggressive.

>Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms

>of BPD that left me spending a lot of time either adoring or

>fearing my mother. I'm grown up, gone to college, married and

>started a family, and moved across the country to escape my

>mother. Well, she just moved in across the street to get to

>know her grandson better. However, I do not tolerate bad

>behavior in my home and will not stay in her home if anyone

>starts yelling or fighting. So far, these rules have been

>clear enough and there have been minor problems around my

>family.

>Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship

>today is the way she treats my 16 year old brother. He does

>not cope with her personality disorder very well and has turned

>to a very dangerous reliance on drugs. He's very reasonable

>about their problems when I talk to him alone, but I understand

>so well how powerless and trapped you can feel when fighting

>with our mother over a problem you don't entirely

>understand. You wind up questioning your own sanity. I'm

>terrified he will kill or severely hurt himself with his drug

>addictions and am trying to figure out a way to approach my mom

>without scaring her off. In the past, I offered to take

>custody so she could have some time to rest, after some bad

>problems with him and she didn't let him come to visit me for

>two years.

>I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from

>others who have been through similar problems. Thanks!

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Lord have mercy! I think I would try to empower your brother with the

book " Boundaries " by Cloud & Townsend; advise him HOW to set boundaries, and

let him know it's OK to set boundaries; Let him know when nada gets

obnoxious, it's OK to say " when u calm down, I'll talk to you " or whatever is

appropriate in your situation. BPD's don't take criticism lightly; they

don't handle ANY confrontation like a grown-up. All I would say is offer

your brother an empowering word, and the book to let him know, for sure, he's

good, worthy of being loved, valuable, and people care about him.

Laurie

In a message dated 6/15/2012 1:27:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

atieszenbpd@... writes:

New to the group here.

Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not want

to recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of course, gets

upset and says she has had all the tests done but is only passive

aggressive.

Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD that

left me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother. I'm

grown up, gone to college, married and started a family, and moved across the

country to escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across the street to

get to know her grandson better. However, I do not tolerate bad behavior in

my home and will not stay in her home if anyone starts yelling or fighting.

So far, these rules have been clear enough and there have been minor

problems around my family.

Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is the

way she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her

personality disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous reliance on

drugs.

He's very reasonable about their problems when I talk to him alone, but I

understand so well how powerless and trapped you can feel when fighting with

our mother over a problem you don't entirely understand. You wind up

questioning your own sanity. I'm terrified he will kill or severely hurt

himself

with his drug addictions and am trying to figure out a way to approach my

mom without scaring her off. In the past, I offered to take custody so she

could have some time to rest, after some bad problems with him and she

didn't let him come to visit me for two years.

I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who have

been through similar problems. Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the Group, " Atie " (for short),

I agree with the earlier posters that a key characteristic of those with

personality disorder is the inability or unwillingness to accept personal

responsibility for their own negative, destructive, toxic, abusive thoughts,

feelings and behaviors. Instead, those with pds believe that all their problems

originate outside their own self, and are not under their control. Those with

pds view themselves as perpetual victims of others and feel entitled and

justified to think, feel and behave the way they do.

This is why personality disorder is currently in its own, separate category of

mental illnesses in the DSM; the personality disorders are in " Axis II " which is

for disorders considered to be unresponsive to either talk therapy or medication

therapy. Those with " Axis I " disorders like depression or anxiety realize that

there is something wrong with them, are distressed by their condition and so

they actively seek therapy and tend to comply with therapy.

But Axis II / personality disorders think like this: " Why should *I* go into

therapy, there's nothing wrong with ME! YOU are the one causing all my

problems, YOU are the one who needs therapy! "

So, what it boils down to is that telling the person with personality disorder

that you think they have personality disorder does not help; it does not cause

the personaltiy-disordered individual to want to seek therapy. Instead, it

usually makes them feel like you are attacking them, and they then want to

attack you back. It usually makes the situation worse.

The only real power you have is to change how you, yourself, respond to your

parent's abusive behaviors: you can decide what behaviors of theirs you will and

will not tolerate from now on, and you can create boundaries or rules for

yourself to protect yourself from their abusive behaviors. (example: In a calm

voice you interrupt your mother who is crying hysterically/upset with you, and

say something like: " I can't talk with you when you are this upset, mother, so

I'm hanging up the phone now. Perhaps at our next scheduled call we can discuss

this again if you're feeling calmer. 'Bye. " )

NOTE: boundaries are not about telling your pd parent what to do, boundaries are

about what YOU will do when presented with a behavior you find unacceptable

(like hysterical crying, or screaming rage-tantrums / name-calling / trying to

pick a fight, etc.) Its a subtle but important difference.

The more you read about personality disorders, read about how to overcome

feelings of co-dependency with your pd parent, read about how to set reasonable

adult boundaries for yourself, or read up on how to disengage entirely from a

parent who is actively hostile and dangerous to you, the better. Knowledge is

power, and its empowering.

Bottom line:

You did not make your parent the way he or she is; you did not cause your mother

to have personality disorder, you can't control her behaviors, and you can't

cure her.

Its not your job to be your mother's mommy, or her therapist. Your mother is an

adult and she is responsible for her own feelings and behaviors, and for seeking

help from professional therapists if she feels the need for it. Any guilt you

might be feeling about this: that somehow its your responsibility to manage

your mother's feelings and her happiness, is misplaced and inappropriate guilt,

and misplaced and inappropriate responsibility.

You were not put on this earth to be your mother's emotional/physical punching

bag or her emotional toilet, or her parent. Withdrawing contact or

establishing boundaries (rules of engagement) with a parent who abuses you does

not make you a bad person or a bad daughter, instead it makes you a responsible,

rational adult.

I hope that helps.

Best of luck to you, it takes time to absorb all this information and to

re-orient your perspective from feeling that its just your normal reality to be

your mother's care-taker or her punching bag, to being a separate, autonomous,

self-validating adult. Its a process and a journey, and it usually doesn't

happen overnight. We each must find our own path to greater emotional health,

peace and healing and there is not really any one-size-fits-all solution: some

of us need and can manage low contact with boundaries, some of us need to go No

Contact either temporarily or permanently, and some of us need to wait and make

no changes for the time being. But as you discover what will work best for

you, its nice to have fellow travelers on the journey, and know you're not

alone.

-Annie

>

> New to the group here.

> Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not want to

recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of course, gets upset

and says she has had all the tests done but is only passive aggressive.

> Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD that left

me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother. I'm grown up,

gone to college, married and started a family, and moved across the country to

escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across the street to get to know her

grandson better. However, I do not tolerate bad behavior in my home and will

not stay in her home if anyone starts yelling or fighting. So far, these rules

have been clear enough and there have been minor problems around my family.

> Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is the way

she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her personality

disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous reliance on drugs. He's

very reasonable about their problems when I talk to him alone, but I understand

so well how powerless and trapped you can feel when fighting with our mother

over a problem you don't entirely understand. You wind up questioning your own

sanity. I'm terrified he will kill or severely hurt himself with his drug

addictions and am trying to figure out a way to approach my mom without scaring

her off. In the past, I offered to take custody so she could have some time to

rest, after some bad problems with him and she didn't let him come to visit me

for two years.

> I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who have

been through similar problems. Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

Ok,

Advice in short bullets.

Confronting your Mom or any other BP about their disorder.

Dont. You ll lose. You wont help. You ll end up the villian.

All you can do is set safe boundaries for yourself.

On your brother.

You can t fix an addict. You cant. You really cant. He has to hit

bottom in order to choose to get better.

The one thing you can do, if you fear for his safety, is call Child

Protective Services. They can investigate, and if they determine he is

at risk and not being properly cared for, they can intervene.

But sadly, she has custody, you dont. She may be an insane crazy bitch,

but courts don t recognize ICB syndrome. Without her help, you cannot

intervene.

CPS can. But all YOU can do is keep yourself safe, and try to be there

for your brother.

But I have to tell you this , from direct personal experience with

addiction. He chose to turn to drugs because that is what he chooses to

do. Everyone makes their own choices. Not all KO s are addicts, though

many are. And the fact that he has a crazy bitch nada does not give him

a reason to do drugs. Addicts get high because they are addicts.

Sympathize with his plight, but do NOT excuse his behavior because of

it.

You CANNOT force others to stop thier crazy , destructive behavior. You

can only choose to keep your own sanity. These are tough, direct words.

But they are the realities.

Good Luck.

Doug

>

> New to the group here.

> Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not

want to recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of

course, gets upset and says she has had all the tests done but is only

passive aggressive.

> Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD

that left me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother.

I'm grown up, gone to college, married and started a family, and moved

across the country to escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across

the street to get to know her grandson better. However, I do not

tolerate bad behavior in my home and will not stay in her home if anyone

starts yelling or fighting. So far, these rules have been clear enough

and there have been minor problems around my family.

> Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is

the way she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her

personality disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous

reliance on drugs. He's very reasonable about their problems when I talk

to him alone, but I understand so well how powerless and trapped you can

feel when fighting with our mother over a problem you don't entirely

understand. You wind up questioning your own sanity. I'm terrified he

will kill or severely hurt himself with his drug addictions and am

trying to figure out a way to approach my mom without scaring her off.

In the past, I offered to take custody so she could have some time to

rest, after some bad problems with him and she didn't let him come to

visit me for two years.

> I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who

have been through similar problems. Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

HI - New member here, just reading the first few posts, and am so sad to hear

about your 16 year old brother. Growing up with a BPD mother myself, I do know

how awful it is as a child. Your brother is only 16, he's still a child, and

needs sane people around him to help him with the devastating effects this

parent has had on his self esteem and still developing brain. It is imperative

that he get some help, or he will continue to spiral downward. He is not an

adult addict, and you seem to be the only sane family member to help at this

point. The BPD is, I would say, the sole reason for contributing to his

addition. He needs to know that there is a way out of this despair he is

feeling. You can't let him " hit bottom' at this young an age. I would say yes,

to call Child Protective Services definitely, and take it from there. I'm sure

they'll have some great resources for you. I wish you well! Lesley

> >

> > New to the group here.

> > Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not

> want to recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of

> course, gets upset and says she has had all the tests done but is only

> passive aggressive.

> > Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD

> that left me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother.

> I'm grown up, gone to college, married and started a family, and moved

> across the country to escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across

> the street to get to know her grandson better. However, I do not

> tolerate bad behavior in my home and will not stay in her home if anyone

> starts yelling or fighting. So far, these rules have been clear enough

> and there have been minor problems around my family.

> > Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is

> the way she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her

> personality disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous

> reliance on drugs. He's very reasonable about their problems when I talk

> to him alone, but I understand so well how powerless and trapped you can

> feel when fighting with our mother over a problem you don't entirely

> understand. You wind up questioning your own sanity. I'm terrified he

> will kill or severely hurt himself with his drug addictions and am

> trying to figure out a way to approach my mom without scaring her off.

> In the past, I offered to take custody so she could have some time to

> rest, after some bad problems with him and she didn't let him come to

> visit me for two years.

> > I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who

> have been through similar problems. Thanks!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Doug and Lesley.  

Lesley, I have called CPS since my original post, but I had not thought of

asking them for resources.  I'm, sadly, sure I will have to call again in the

not too far future, but I will ask them when I do.  My brother also spent the

day, stoned, at church after my mom kicked him out of the house in 112 degree

weather with nowhere to go.  My husband eventually found him, after about 10

hours. The good note is that there is a pastor there who has gone through some

similar problems with an unstable home and drug abuse, so maybe my brother can

find some inspiration in him. 

Doug, I know you're right.  I went through some crazy things with my mom and I

never chose to turn to substance abuse.  I also know that I can't help an

addict until he chooses to help himself.  What I'm struggling with is that he

keeps telling me that he wants to be better but that he just feels so hopeless

with her and he feels like he's losing his mind.  Maybe he's playing me. 

Maybe she's an easy excuse to live this lifestyle.  But maybe he really could

do better in a better setting. He spent 60 days in JDC and said he loved it. 

He's spent time in wellness clinics and always talks about how he loves the

routine and calm.  Haha, only a KO right?  Since I posted, my brother has been

stoned for four days straight, I've called the cops on them three times now, he

has destroyed her house, he has carved letters and symbols all over his body. 

I'm so terrified that he's either going to disappear one day and not come back

or he's going to kill

himself.  I tell him that she's the trigger today, but next it's going to be

his girlfriend, his co-workers, his boss, his neighbors, his wife, his kids. 

He has to choose to stop.  He agrees, but then he goes home and does something

stupid. 

Thanks for the advice guys.

Ashleigh

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: Advice for confronting a parent about BPD

 

HI - New member here, just reading the first few posts, and am so sad to hear

about your 16 year old brother. Growing up with a BPD mother myself, I do know

how awful it is as a child. Your brother is only 16, he's still a child, and

needs sane people around him to help him with the devastating effects this

parent has had on his self esteem and still developing brain. It is imperative

that he get some help, or he will continue to spiral downward. He is not an

adult addict, and you seem to be the only sane family member to help at this

point. The BPD is, I would say, the sole reason for contributing to his

addition. He needs to know that there is a way out of this despair he is

feeling. You can't let him " hit bottom' at this young an age. I would say yes,

to call Child Protective Services definitely, and take it from there. I'm sure

they'll have some great resources for you. I wish you well! Lesley

> >

> > New to the group here.

> > Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not

> want to recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of

> course, gets upset and says she has had all the tests done but is only

> passive aggressive.

> > Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD

> that left me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother.

> I'm grown up, gone to college, married and started a family, and moved

> across the country to escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across

> the street to get to know her grandson better. However, I do not

> tolerate bad behavior in my home and will not stay in her home if anyone

> starts yelling or fighting. So far, these rules have been clear enough

> and there have been minor problems around my family.

> > Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is

> the way she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her

> personality disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous

> reliance on drugs. He's very reasonable about their problems when I talk

> to him alone, but I understand so well how powerless and trapped you can

> feel when fighting with our mother over a problem you don't entirely

> understand. You wind up questioning your own sanity. I'm terrified he

> will kill or severely hurt himself with his drug addictions and am

> trying to figure out a way to approach my mom without scaring her off.

> In the past, I offered to take custody so she could have some time to

> rest, after some bad problems with him and she didn't let him come to

> visit me for two years.

> > I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who

> have been through similar problems. Thanks!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Annie.  Your response was thorough and very informative.  I think

what I'm struggling with right now is that many sites about BPD list the

potential benefits for therapy and family support for people with BPD. That

appears to be the rare situation in which the person wants to pursue.  I feel

like this is misleading since the collective feedback in this group reveals a

resistance to recognizing this disabling condition.  I'm a sped teacher, so I

understand the risk of sharing inspiring stories that the rare individual with

that disability can achieve on the family of individuals who then feel they are

not meeting their potential.  I guess that is what is happening here.  I've

been researching all the wonderful opportunities and possibilities, but it's

really up to my mother and she's not there and may never get there.

Thank you for your thoughtful response Annie!

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: Advice for confronting a parent about BPD

 

Welcome to the Group, " Atie " (for short),

I agree with the earlier posters that a key characteristic of those with

personality disorder is the inability or unwillingness to accept personal

responsibility for their own negative, destructive, toxic, abusive thoughts,

feelings and behaviors. Instead, those with pds believe that all their problems

originate outside their own self, and are not under their control. Those with

pds view themselves as perpetual victims of others and feel entitled and

justified to think, feel and behave the way they do.

This is why personality disorder is currently in its own, separate category of

mental illnesses in the DSM; the personality disorders are in " Axis II " which is

for disorders considered to be unresponsive to either talk therapy or medication

therapy. Those with " Axis I " disorders like depression or anxiety realize that

there is something wrong with them, are distressed by their condition and so

they actively seek therapy and tend to comply with therapy.

But Axis II / personality disorders think like this: " Why should *I* go into

therapy, there's nothing wrong with ME! YOU are the one causing all my

problems, YOU are the one who needs therapy! "

So, what it boils down to is that telling the person with personality disorder

that you think they have personality disorder does not help; it does not cause

the personaltiy-disordered individual to want to seek therapy. Instead, it

usually makes them feel like you are attacking them, and they then want to

attack you back. It usually makes the situation worse.

The only real power you have is to change how you, yourself, respond to your

parent's abusive behaviors: you can decide what behaviors of theirs you will and

will not tolerate from now on, and you can create boundaries or rules for

yourself to protect yourself from their abusive behaviors. (example: In a calm

voice you interrupt your mother who is crying hysterically/upset with you, and

say something like: " I can't talk with you when you are this upset, mother, so

I'm hanging up the phone now. Perhaps at our next scheduled call we can discuss

this again if you're feeling calmer. 'Bye. " )

NOTE: boundaries are not about telling your pd parent what to do, boundaries are

about what YOU will do when presented with a behavior you find unacceptable

(like hysterical crying, or screaming rage-tantrums / name-calling / trying to

pick a fight, etc.) Its a subtle but important difference.

The more you read about personality disorders, read about how to overcome

feelings of co-dependency with your pd parent, read about how to set reasonable

adult boundaries for yourself, or read up on how to disengage entirely from a

parent who is actively hostile and dangerous to you, the better. Knowledge is

power, and its empowering.

Bottom line:

You did not make your parent the way he or she is; you did not cause your mother

to have personality disorder, you can't control her behaviors, and you can't

cure her.

Its not your job to be your mother's mommy, or her therapist. Your mother is an

adult and she is responsible for her own feelings and behaviors, and for seeking

help from professional therapists if she feels the need for it. Any guilt you

might be feeling about this: that somehow its your responsibility to manage

your mother's feelings and her happiness, is misplaced and inappropriate guilt,

and misplaced and inappropriate responsibility.

You were not put on this earth to be your mother's emotional/physical punching

bag or her emotional toilet, or her parent. Withdrawing contact or

establishing boundaries (rules of engagement) with a parent who abuses you does

not make you a bad person or a bad daughter, instead it makes you a responsible,

rational adult.

I hope that helps.

Best of luck to you, it takes time to absorb all this information and to

re-orient your perspective from feeling that its just your normal reality to be

your mother's care-taker or her punching bag, to being a separate, autonomous,

self-validating adult. Its a process and a journey, and it usually doesn't

happen overnight. We each must find our own path to greater emotional health,

peace and healing and there is not really any one-size-fits-all solution: some

of us need and can manage low contact with boundaries, some of us need to go No

Contact either temporarily or permanently, and some of us need to wait and make

no changes for the time being. But as you discover what will work best for

you, its nice to have fellow travelers on the journey, and know you're not

alone.

-Annie

>

> New to the group here.

> Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not want to

recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of course, gets upset

and says she has had all the tests done but is only passive aggressive.

> Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD that left

me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother. I'm grown up,

gone to college, married and started a family, and moved across the country to

escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across the street to get to know her

grandson better. However, I do not tolerate bad behavior in my home and will

not stay in her home if anyone starts yelling or fighting. So far, these rules

have been clear enough and there have been minor problems around my family.

> Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is the way

she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her personality

disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous reliance on drugs. He's

very reasonable about their problems when I talk to him alone, but I understand

so well how powerless and trapped you can feel when fighting with our mother

over a problem you don't entirely understand. You wind up questioning your own

sanity. I'm terrified he will kill or severely hurt himself with his drug

addictions and am trying to figure out a way to approach my mom without scaring

her off. In the past, I offered to take custody so she could have some time to

rest, after some bad problems with him and she didn't let him come to visit me

for two years.

> I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who have

been through similar problems. Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

I think her fears of living alone are prohibiting her from making the right

decisions for him.  She needs to send him to rehab but she is so terrified of

living alone.  I guess I was thinking that she might be able to see that with

some counseling about her problem, but that could take years, if she ever came

to a point that she could recognize that at all.  My brother needs help now,

like you said, and I agree that I need to focus on what I can to help my

brother, rather than focusing on fixing the un-fixable.

Thanks Jen.  

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 12:22 PM

Subject: Re: Advice for confronting a parent about BPD

I'm not a drug or addiction counselor, but I think what you have to realize

is that even though your mother may bear a significant chunk of

responsibility for your brother's turning to drugs, you can't fix him by

fixing her or by getting her to acknowledge she helped cause the problem

(even if she would acknowledge such a thing, which the vast majority of

BPDs will NOT.)  Your brother needs help in his own right.  You might want

to contact some rehab programs in your area and talk to a counselor about

the best way to approach your brother and encourage him to seek help for

his problem. Simply identifying your mother's issue isn't likely to be

enough to repair what's gone wrong with your brother at this point.

Find some good sources of information on the topic and follow their

recommendations, would be my advice.  And worry more about your brother

than your mother at this point -- at 16, he still has an excellent change

to repair his life and do well. She probably doesn't.

-- Jen H.

> **

>

>

> New to the group here.

> Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not want

> to recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of course, gets

> upset and says she has had all the tests done but is only passive

> aggressive.

> Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD that

> left me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother. I'm

> grown up, gone to college, married and started a family, and moved across

> the country to escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across the street

> to get to know her grandson better. However, I do not tolerate bad behavior

> in my home and will not stay in her home if anyone starts yelling or

> fighting. So far, these rules have been clear enough and there have been

> minor problems around my family.

> Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is the

> way she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her

> personality disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous reliance

> on drugs. He's very reasonable about their problems when I talk to him

> alone, but I understand so well how powerless and trapped you can feel when

> fighting with our mother over a problem you don't entirely understand. You

> wind up questioning your own sanity. I'm terrified he will kill or severely

> hurt himself with his drug addictions and am trying to figure out a way to

> approach my mom without scaring her off. In the past, I offered to take

> custody so she could have some time to rest, after some bad problems with

> him and she didn't let him come to visit me for two years.

> I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who have

> been through similar problems. Thanks!

>

> 

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina,

My brother is allowed to come over anytime as long as he's not high or drunk. 

Unfortunately, he has been high often, lately.  I've also thought about the

potential benefits of telling him about her disability.  I'm trying to decide

if it would overwhelm and burden him more, or if it would be helpful to give him

some coping skills.  I feel like it would have helped me to cope with her

better when I was a kid, but we're also very different.  He turns to drugs to

cope, and as bad as it got sometimes, I never would have considered that an

option.  Does anyone know of any good websites, books, videos for young adults?

Thank you Katrina!

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 1:03 PM

Subject: Re: Advice for confronting a parent about BPD

 

Most of us have experience with a parent who won't admit to

having BPD. Very few people who have BPD are willing to admit

that they have a personality disorder or that there is anything

wrong with the way they behave. It goes beyond the way normal

people sometimes deny problems. BPD itself causes the people who

have it to be unable to understand that there is anything wrong

with them. They think everyone who complains or doesn't do what

they want has a problem, not them. If a professional makes the

diagnosis they generally stop seeing that professional rather

than accept the diagnosis. So you're very unlikely to be able to

convince her that she has a problem. Even if you could get her

to admit to having a problem, she'd still have to want to change

and need extensive on-going treatment to change. Treatment

doesn't make BPD go away. It tries to teach those who have it

better ways of dealing with it. In other words, talking to her

about it is likely to cause more problems, not solve the

existing problems. Talking to her about your brother might make

things worse for him. If he'd gotten into illegal drugs to

escape from dealing with her and she comes down on him about

doing drugs his reaction might well be to do more drugs not

less.

You might have better luck with convincing your brother to get

help for himself. How much time does he spend with you now that

they've moved to be near you? The best things you can do for him

might be to be there when he needs a safe refuge and to set a

good example of how to deal with her. A sympathetic adult who

understands the problem can be a huge help. Does your brother

know about BPD? If not, understanding more about what is wrong

with her might help him develop better coping mechanisms.

At 12:47 AM 06/14/2012 atieszenbpd wrote:

>New to the group here.

>Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who

>does not want to recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning

>it, she, of course, gets upset and says she has had all the

>tests done but is only passive aggressive.

>Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms

>of BPD that left me spending a lot of time either adoring or

>fearing my mother. I'm grown up, gone to college, married and

>started a family, and moved across the country to escape my

>mother. Well, she just moved in across the street to get to

>know her grandson better. However, I do not tolerate bad

>behavior in my home and will not stay in her home if anyone

>starts yelling or fighting. So far, these rules have been

>clear enough and there have been minor problems around my

>family.

>Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship

>today is the way she treats my 16 year old brother. He does

>not cope with her personality disorder very well and has turned

>to a very dangerous reliance on drugs. He's very reasonable

>about their problems when I talk to him alone, but I understand

>so well how powerless and trapped you can feel when fighting

>with our mother over a problem you don't entirely

>understand. You wind up questioning your own sanity. I'm

>terrified he will kill or severely hurt himself with his drug

>addictions and am trying to figure out a way to approach my mom

>without scaring her off. In the past, I offered to take

>custody so she could have some time to rest, after some bad

>problems with him and she didn't let him come to visit me for

>two years.

>I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from

>others who have been through similar problems. Thanks!

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much Laurie.  That's easy for me to do, because he really is a

fabulous, funny, smart, confident, kind, and gentle person when he's not around

my mother or on drugs. 

I'll look into that book for him.  I was wondering if there were any books we

could read together or anything like that.  The websites I've found all seem to

have a focus on like a family or person-centered therapy, but not much help for

a desperate drug addict kid of a BPD.

Thanks Laurie!

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: Advice for confronting a parent about BPD

 

Lord have mercy! I think I would try to empower your brother with the

book " Boundaries " by Cloud & Townsend; advise him HOW to set boundaries, and

let him know it's OK to set boundaries; Let him know when nada gets

obnoxious, it's OK to say " when u calm down, I'll talk to you " or whatever is

appropriate in your situation. BPD's don't take criticism lightly; they

don't handle ANY confrontation like a grown-up. All I would say is offer

your brother an empowering word, and the book to let him know, for sure, he's

good, worthy of being loved, valuable, and people care about him.

Laurie

In a message dated 6/15/2012 1:27:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

atieszenbpd@... writes:

New to the group here.

Just curious if anyone has any experience with a parent who does not want

to recognize that they have BPD? When mentioning it, she, of course, gets

upset and says she has had all the tests done but is only passive

aggressive.

Looking back on my childhood, I can see now the many symptoms of BPD that

left me spending a lot of time either adoring or fearing my mother. I'm

grown up, gone to college, married and started a family, and moved across the

country to escape my mother. Well, she just moved in across the street to

get to know her grandson better. However, I do not tolerate bad behavior in

my home and will not stay in her home if anyone starts yelling or fighting.

So far, these rules have been clear enough and there have been minor

problems around my family.

Unfortunately, the biggest issue we have in our relationship today is the

way she treats my 16 year old brother. He does not cope with her

personality disorder very well and has turned to a very dangerous reliance on

drugs.

He's very reasonable about their problems when I talk to him alone, but I

understand so well how powerless and trapped you can feel when fighting with

our mother over a problem you don't entirely understand. You wind up

questioning your own sanity. I'm terrified he will kill or severely hurt

himself

with his drug addictions and am trying to figure out a way to approach my

mom without scaring her off. In the past, I offered to take custody so she

could have some time to rest, after some bad problems with him and she

didn't let him come to visit me for two years.

I'm desperate for support groups, resources, any tips from others who have

been through similar problems. Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Given the way you've described the situation, I don't think

telling him about BPD is likely to make things worse. He's

already engaging in behavior that could kill him any day. I

don't personally know any specific resources for young adults. I

have a half-sister who is 20 years younger than me. It was

obvious to me from the time when she was very young that she

needed to have a sane adult nearby and that's why I ended up

talking my nada into moving here with her when she was 13. (That

had a lot of consequences I didn't like but it was worth it.) I

did my best to always be available for her and let her know that

the problem was our mother not her. As she got older I told her

what I thought was wrong with our mother.

I wonder whether you might be able to talk to the guidance

counselor at his school, giving the school a head's up as to

what is going on in his life. The school counselor might be able

to point you towards some resources in your community too.

At 10:01 PM 06/20/2012 Ashleigh Tieszen wrote:

>Hi Katrina,

>

>My brother is allowed to come over anytime as long as he's not

>high or drunk. Unfortunately, he has been high often,

>lately. I've also thought about the potential benefits of

>telling him about her disability. I'm trying to decide if it

>would overwhelm and burden him more, or if it would be helpful

>to give him some coping skills. I feel like it would have

>helped me to cope with her better when I was a kid, but we're

>also very different. He turns to drugs to cope, and as bad as

>it got sometimes, I never would have considered that an

>option. Does anyone know of any good websites, books, videos

>for young adults?

>Thank you Katrina!

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Hi Ashleigh,

I'm glad that what I posted was helpful to you. As you have noted, therapy only

has the potential to be effective if the individual *desires to change*, enters

into therapy voluntarily, is willing to work hard and not give up even though

the process takes a long, long time, is emotionally painful, difficult and

expensive.

I believe the greatest hope for improvement is for personality-disordered *young

people*, if they get properly diagnosed and receive the most effective

treatments early in life, but my own personal opinion is that in the case of

adults with severe personality disorder, their behaviors, thought-patterns, and

habitual ways of perceiving reality and reacting to triggers are SO long-term,

SO deeply ingrained that change is literally on the miracle level of

possibility: very, VERY rare.

I suppose that in the case of adults who are only *very mildly* affected by bpd

traits and behaviors, perhaps only sub-clinically affected (such as they only

have 3 or 4 of the 9 diagnostic traits instead of 5) then such an individual

might experience distress over their own thoughts, feelings and behaviors, might

desire to change, might choose to go into therapy voluntarily, and therefor have

the potential to achieve personal insight, and the potential to learn to

self-monitor and control their unwanted, negative thoughts and behaviors.

My opinion is based on the case of my own bpd/npd/ocpd mother, who did go into

therapy because Sister and I gave her an ultimatum, but it didn't have any real

benefit for our nada because she felt forced into it. Our nada eventually died

of dementia, but even before the dementia became evident, nada remained very

entrenched in her bpd behaviors despite therapy, believing that she was

entitled and justified to think, feel, and behave as she did, even though her

behaviors toward us were very critical, controlling, demanding, and demeaning to

the point where I couldn't be around my mother any longer and Sister became

severely depressed. As far as my own experiences goes, giving ultimatums is

pointless.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Annie, I really enjoyed reading your post. Wow... how brilliantly you put it all

together. I thank you personally.