Dating another Kid of a BPD...did not go well.

[Guest guest]

A few months ago I met this amazing man in my ongoing evening class. He's 41

years old, never married.

It was astonishing how much we have in common: interests, values, hobbies,

passions and etc.... I even lived in Europe for a year doing non-profit work.

Turns out his family is from the same country and he use to visit the place

where I worked!

Even crazier...we both grew up in families that did LOTS of foster parenting.

It turns out, his mother may also be a BPD Waif too! Just like mine (except

mine can also be a Witch).

We just seemed like kindred spirits. Both of us were excited to meet each

other. We both opened up quickly to each other, seemed really into being

together. He took me away for the weekend within our fist couple of weeks of

dating and I hung out with his family. They loved me.

Then a week later...he turned distant. I thought, " oh he just needs

space...that's fine. " But by the next time we talked on the phone (after a

week), he was obviously annoyed I had called and was making excuses to get off

the phone. So I wrote him an email later that night, kept it light & positive,

and said, " It seems things have fizzled out. No big deal. I still think you're

great. I just need a guy who pursues me. " He never responded to the email.

I cried for two weeks straight. Dove into dating books to see what I did wrong.

Turns out I made several classic women-mistakes in dating, but nothing which

warranted the sudden coldness. Mistakes that actually were pretty fixable with a

little communication.

But he seems to avoid communication with me. It's been 4 months since we dated.

We've texted a little bit back and forth. But I was always initiating (and I'd

space them out to 1-3 weeks and would be the first to say, " gotta go...take

care. " ). So I stopped.

In our class, he doesn't look me in the eye. He acts awkward around me. I just

try to smile and say a polite hello, but he avoids me.

So I wrote him for the final time a couple of weeks ago, just to say I

appreciated him. I said the time we dated helped me change some of my approaches

to dating. He texted me a week later, simply saying " thanks for the email. " I

returned his text with an equally polite response.

I can't help but feel rejected by this guy. I'm 35 years old and still incapable

of having a healthy relationship, because I'm drawn to/attract men who can't

emotionally open up. Otherwise why would I still be hung up on a guy who

obviously doesn't want me.

And dammit...as a kid of a BPD, I struggle to trust my intuition. I struggle to

believe enough in myself to say, " who cares if we're kindred spirits, I don't

date men who don't want to make me happy. " I keep wanting to believe he really

isn't this way, but he's just struggling and will come around someday. Yeah

right!

I feel a ton of shame for my own part in ruining what we could've had. And then

I get mad at myself for feeling shameful.

I don't know what to do...except write about how awful this feels instead of

continuing to cry all night.

Thanks for reading.

[Guest guest]

I would advise not to take this too personally. The problem may

have been that you had too much in common. Sometimes people who

are too much alike end up reinforcing each other's weaknesses.

Or one of them ends up seeing parts of himself/herself in the

other and sees that as a constant reminder of his/her own

perceived failures. Or he may have been scared off because you

got along so well so quickly. He's 41 and never married. There's

probably a reason for that and if not, he may just be so used to

being single that relationships scare him or make him feel

uncomfortable in other ways. He may have reacted to the speed at

which you started feeling attracted by retreating.

Alternatively, if he has a nada, she may have pressured him into

breaking it off. Nadas don't like it and feel threatened when

their children find partners. They find all sorts of ways to

sabatoge relationships. If he grew up in an emotionally

dysfunctional family he may never have learned the proper social

skills for dating or for breaking off a relationship in a less

hurtful way. That can be hard enough if you grew up with good

examples let alone with a parent with BPD.

Don't be so hard on yourself for caring about this guy. One

failed relationship does not mean you're incapable of having a

healthy relationship. In this case it may have been the man who

was incapable of that. By the way, in my experence, men in

general tend to not open up emotionally. Boys are commonly

taught that it isn't manly to show emotion and that results in

men who do their best to hide their emotions. If you made

mistakes, then learn from them and try to avoid the same

mistakes next time.

At 02:41 AM 06/19/2012 peacefulwarriorwoman wrote:

>A few months ago I met this amazing man in my ongoing evening

>class. He's 41 years old, never married.

>

>It was astonishing how much we have in common: interests,

>values, hobbies, passions and etc.... I even lived in Europe

>for a year doing non-profit work. Turns out his family is from

>the same country and he use to visit the place where I

>worked!

>

>Even crazier...we both grew up in families that did LOTS of

>foster parenting. It turns out, his mother may also be a BPD

>Waif too! Just like mine (except mine can also be a Witch).

>

>We just seemed like kindred spirits. Both of us were excited

>to meet each other. We both opened up quickly to each other,

>seemed really into being together. He took me away for the

>weekend within our fist couple of weeks of dating and I hung

>out with his family. They loved me.

>

>Then a week later...he turned distant. I thought, " oh he just

>needs space...that's fine. " But by the next time we talked on

>the phone (after a week), he was obviously annoyed I had called

>and was making excuses to get off the phone. So I wrote him an

>email later that night, kept it light & positive, and said, " It

>seems things have fizzled out. No big deal. I still think

>you're great. I just need a guy who pursues me. " He never

>responded to the email.

>

>I cried for two weeks straight. Dove into dating books to see

>what I did wrong. Turns out I made several classic

>women-mistakes in dating, but nothing which warranted the

>sudden coldness. Mistakes that actually were pretty fixable

>with a little communication.

>

>But he seems to avoid communication with me. It's been 4

>months since we dated. We've texted a little bit back and

>forth. But I was always initiating (and I'd space them out to

>1-3 weeks and would be the first to say, " gotta go...take

>care. " ). So I stopped.

>

>In our class, he doesn't look me in the eye. He acts awkward

>around me. I just try to smile and say a polite hello, but he

>avoids me.

>

>So I wrote him for the final time a couple of weeks ago, just

>to say I appreciated him. I said the time we dated helped me

>change some of my approaches to dating. He texted me a week

>later, simply saying " thanks for the email. " I returned his

>text with an equally polite response.

>

>I can't help but feel rejected by this guy. I'm 35 years old

>and still incapable of having a healthy relationship, because

>I'm drawn to/attract men who can't emotionally open

>up. Otherwise why would I still be hung up on a guy who

>obviously doesn't want me.

>

>And dammit...as a kid of a BPD, I struggle to trust my

>intuition. I struggle to believe enough in myself to say, " who

>cares if we're kindred spirits, I don't date men who don't want

>to make me happy. " I keep wanting to believe he really isn't

>this way, but he's just struggling and will come around

>someday. Yeah right!

>

>I feel a ton of shame for my own part in ruining what we

>could've had. And then I get mad at myself for feeling

>shameful.

>

>I don't know what to do...except write about how awful this

>feels instead of continuing to cry all night.

>

>Thanks for reading.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

April,

I'm sorry this didn't work out for you, but I think you have some valuable

information here to work with. One thing I think you are overlooking here is

the idea of attachment formations. I am on two groups one for children of

narcissists and one from bpd. It seems that the overwhelming attachment

response to growing up like this is to form a co-dependent attachment. I'm

guessing that is what you have. I am guessing, I repeat.

He sounds like he has an avoidant/dismissive attachment style. I have this too.

We run from intimacy. It sounds like you had a wonderful time and then with all

that intimacy he needed to put distance between you. Also avoidant attachment

styles tend to act out more narcisstically, ie protect oneself at all costs,

instead of worrying about the other person feels - which is the

co-dependent/fawning response.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that acting out narcissitically is being

a narc. It's just the self protective defense mechanisms we pick up and model

to protect ourselves from our PDparents.

Much like borderlines and narcissists love to get together, so do co-d's and

avoidants. The more distancing the avoidant becomes (in the face of all that

intimacy), the more fawning the co-d will become in their anxious attachment,

the more the avoidant further flees. Voila.

Mind you, my partner has a bit of co-d, and we've done the dance, but since he

is actually more healthy than enabling, and I trust him and feel safe revealing

all my darkest secrets and thoughts- I believe he has actually helped me form a

more secure attachment with myself and thus everyone (though I have ways to

gooooo).

There is a book out about attachment styles and love, called Attachment. I

advise you to read it and learn about the ways we subconsciously approach

relationships is formed through our attachments to our caregivers.

I'm guessing, and this is no judgement to you at all, bc I have no idea how you

reacted or more importantly, how he perceived it - but I am guessing that he has

huge issues with the idea of any woman needing him because that repeats his

waify mom and hey, who wouldn't run from that? Especially when you don't have

any idea of what you are running from because you don't have awareness about

your reactions.

Just a thought. At any rate, try not to be so hard on yourself. We all have a

lot of unmet needs that we are either actively denying, repressing, or

subconsiously acting out on, (in addition to a myriad other choices). Maybe

the shame comes in part, because you took a chance and accessed your

vulnerability and you still feel rejected. But you did the brave thing, which

is to reach out in communion, and he is the one who ran like a coward from his

fears. Not to brand him a coward, perhaps an unconscious coward! ; )

I hope this is helpful and comforting to you, ie it's not you, it's the

attachment!

SR

>

> A few months ago I met this amazing man in my ongoing evening class. He's 41

years old, never married.

>

> It was astonishing how much we have in common: interests, values, hobbies,

passions and etc.... I even lived in Europe for a year doing non-profit work.

Turns out his family is from the same country and he use to visit the place

where I worked!

>

> Even crazier...we both grew up in families that did LOTS of foster parenting.

It turns out, his mother may also be a BPD Waif too! Just like mine (except

mine can also be a Witch).

>

> We just seemed like kindred spirits. Both of us were excited to meet each

other. We both opened up quickly to each other, seemed really into being

together. He took me away for the weekend within our fist couple of weeks of

dating and I hung out with his family. They loved me.

>

> Then a week later...he turned distant. I thought, " oh he just needs

space...that's fine. " But by the next time we talked on the phone (after a

week), he was obviously annoyed I had called and was making excuses to get off

the phone. So I wrote him an email later that night, kept it light & positive,

and said, " It seems things have fizzled out. No big deal. I still think you're

great. I just need a guy who pursues me. " He never responded to the email.

>

> I cried for two weeks straight. Dove into dating books to see what I did

wrong. Turns out I made several classic women-mistakes in dating, but nothing

which warranted the sudden coldness. Mistakes that actually were pretty fixable

with a little communication.

>

> But he seems to avoid communication with me. It's been 4 months since we

dated. We've texted a little bit back and forth. But I was always initiating

(and I'd space them out to 1-3 weeks and would be the first to say, " gotta

go...take care. " ). So I stopped.

>

> In our class, he doesn't look me in the eye. He acts awkward around me. I

just try to smile and say a polite hello, but he avoids me.

>

> So I wrote him for the final time a couple of weeks ago, just to say I

appreciated him. I said the time we dated helped me change some of my approaches

to dating. He texted me a week later, simply saying " thanks for the email. " I

returned his text with an equally polite response.

>

> I can't help but feel rejected by this guy. I'm 35 years old and still

incapable of having a healthy relationship, because I'm drawn to/attract men who

can't emotionally open up. Otherwise why would I still be hung up on a guy who

obviously doesn't want me.

>

> And dammit...as a kid of a BPD, I struggle to trust my intuition. I struggle

to believe enough in myself to say, " who cares if we're kindred spirits, I don't

date men who don't want to make me happy. " I keep wanting to believe he really

isn't this way, but he's just struggling and will come around someday. Yeah

right!

>

> I feel a ton of shame for my own part in ruining what we could've had. And

then I get mad at myself for feeling shameful.

>

> I don't know what to do...except write about how awful this feels instead of

continuing to cry all night.

>

> Thanks for reading.

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if the two of you just moved into things too quickly, and that made him

feel overwhelmed and wanting to back away. That would be my guess, but who

knows? It could be anything.

A healthy person would have been able to talk to you about the relationship.

You deserve as much, you deserve closure, but it looks like you're not going to

get that right now.

I was 36 and never been married when I re-met an old coworker and we started

dating. I was really disappointed when he didn't make the time for us to build

a relationship. He kept saying he wanted to, but not acting like it. Finally,

I was so irritated that I joined match.com and met my current boyfriend (4 years

now). He was 37 and never been married, and we are a great match. So try not

to feel too discouraged.

I would recommend trying your best to just let go of him and be open to moving

on with someone else.

Also, sometimes you'll get your answer years later, which happened to me when a

guy I was dating suddenly and inexplicably pulled away, but we remained friends.

His reason was he was fresh out of a marriage and realized he didn't want to get

serious again so soon.

Deanna

>

> A few months ago I met this amazing man in my ongoing evening class. He's 41

years old, never married.

>

> It was astonishing how much we have in common: interests, values, hobbies,

passions and etc.... I even lived in Europe for a year doing non-profit work.

Turns out his family is from the same country and he use to visit the place

where I worked!

>

> Even crazier...we both grew up in families that did LOTS of foster parenting.

It turns out, his mother may also be a BPD Waif too! Just like mine (except

mine can also be a Witch).

>

> We just seemed like kindred spirits. Both of us were excited to meet each

other. We both opened up quickly to each other, seemed really into being

together. He took me away for the weekend within our fist couple of weeks of

dating and I hung out with his family. They loved me.

>

> Then a week later...he turned distant. I thought, " oh he just needs

space...that's fine. " But by the next time we talked on the phone (after a

week), he was obviously annoyed I had called and was making excuses to get off

the phone. So I wrote him an email later that night, kept it light & positive,

and said, " It seems things have fizzled out. No big deal. I still think you're

great. I just need a guy who pursues me. " He never responded to the email.

>

> I cried for two weeks straight. Dove into dating books to see what I did

wrong. Turns out I made several classic women-mistakes in dating, but nothing

which warranted the sudden coldness. Mistakes that actually were pretty fixable

with a little communication.

>

> But he seems to avoid communication with me. It's been 4 months since we

dated. We've texted a little bit back and forth. But I was always initiating

(and I'd space them out to 1-3 weeks and would be the first to say, " gotta

go...take care. " ). So I stopped.

>

> In our class, he doesn't look me in the eye. He acts awkward around me. I

just try to smile and say a polite hello, but he avoids me.

>

> So I wrote him for the final time a couple of weeks ago, just to say I

appreciated him. I said the time we dated helped me change some of my approaches

to dating. He texted me a week later, simply saying " thanks for the email. " I

returned his text with an equally polite response.

>

> I can't help but feel rejected by this guy. I'm 35 years old and still

incapable of having a healthy relationship, because I'm drawn to/attract men who

can't emotionally open up. Otherwise why would I still be hung up on a guy who

obviously doesn't want me.

>

> And dammit...as a kid of a BPD, I struggle to trust my intuition. I struggle

to believe enough in myself to say, " who cares if we're kindred spirits, I don't

date men who don't want to make me happy. " I keep wanting to believe he really

isn't this way, but he's just struggling and will come around someday. Yeah

right!

>

> I feel a ton of shame for my own part in ruining what we could've had. And

then I get mad at myself for feeling shameful.

>

> I don't know what to do...except write about how awful this feels instead of

continuing to cry all night.

>

> Thanks for reading.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

SR, I know I've got the co-d thing going, but boy have I been working hard

on it. And while his sudden avoident behavior triggered my co-d a little, I

quickly caught on to it. That's why I ended the relationship so quickly. I

even admitted to him I felt like I was starting to feel like I was pursuing

him, which isn't me.

I know I'll never be perfectly recovered, nor will any guy with a BPD

family. But I had hoped he'd be willing to work through his fears, knowing

that I would understand.

I'm so fortunate that I'm a sensitive, driven woman who actively works

through her stuff. It grieves me how most men from BPD mom's aren't able to

dig deep enough to heal. So these amazing men will live their lives alone

and feeling incapable. It just breaks my heart.

But he has gone to therapy, which is why I had hope that he would be

courageous enough to face his fears while we dated.

I can't wait until I've raised my confidence and self-esteem enough to

attract more confident men. I need to be with someone who is THRILLED with

how willing I am to work through a relationship. Who will gladly put the

time in themselves because he knows that keeping me is TOTALLY worth it!

Honestly I have a history of dating cowardly men with bpd or narcissitic

parents. And it makes me feel like crap that I fell into the same trap.

That even at 35 years old I still don't have it together enough.

But all I can do is move forward. So I'll pick up the Attachment book.

I've come so far in my growth. Someday I'll be able to be in a healthy

relationship.

And honestly the average dating book and advice from friends is not

enough. Because while I'm dating, I'm recovering from being emotionally

abused (and being self-abusive). But maybe someday dating and relationships

will get easier to handle.

God how being a kid of a BPD sucks! But it could've been worse. I could've

gotten married before now and been miserable or divorced by now. At least

being attracted to avoident types has kept me clear of a toxic marriage!

Sigh....

Thanks

> **

>

>

> April,

>

> I'm sorry this didn't work out for you, but I think you have some valuable

> information here to work with. One thing I think you are overlooking here

> is the idea of attachment formations. I am on two groups one for children

> of narcissists and one from bpd. It seems that the overwhelming attachment

> response to growing up like this is to form a co-dependent attachment. I'm

> guessing that is what you have. I am guessing, I repeat.

>

> He sounds like he has an avoidant/dismissive attachment style. I have this

> too. We run from intimacy. It sounds like you had a wonderful time and then

> with all that intimacy he needed to put distance between you. Also avoidant

> attachment styles tend to act out more narcisstically, ie protect oneself

> at all costs, instead of worrying about the other person feels - which is

> the co-dependent/fawning response.

>

> Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that acting out narcissitically is

> being a narc. It's just the self protective defense mechanisms we pick up

> and model to protect ourselves from our PDparents.

>

> Much like borderlines and narcissists love to get together, so do co-d's

> and avoidants. The more distancing the avoidant becomes (in the face of all

> that intimacy), the more fawning the co-d will become in their anxious

> attachment, the more the avoidant further flees. Voila.

>

> Mind you, my partner has a bit of co-d, and we've done the dance, but

> since he is actually more healthy than enabling, and I trust him and feel

> safe revealing all my darkest secrets and thoughts- I believe he has

> actually helped me form a more secure attachment with myself and thus

> everyone (though I have ways to gooooo).

>

> There is a book out about attachment styles and love, called Attachment. I

> advise you to read it and learn about the ways we subconsciously approach

> relationships is formed through our attachments to our caregivers.

>

> I'm guessing, and this is no judgement to you at all, bc I have no idea

> how you reacted or more importantly, how he perceived it - but I am

> guessing that he has huge issues with the idea of any woman needing him

> because that repeats his waify mom and hey, who wouldn't run from that?

> Especially when you don't have any idea of what you are running from

> because you don't have awareness about your reactions.

>

> Just a thought. At any rate, try not to be so hard on yourself. We all

> have a lot of unmet needs that we are either actively denying, repressing,

> or subconsiously acting out on, (in addition to a myriad other choices).

> Maybe the shame comes in part, because you took a chance and accessed your

> vulnerability and you still feel rejected. But you did the brave thing,

> which is to reach out in communion, and he is the one who ran like a coward

> from his fears. Not to brand him a coward, perhaps an unconscious coward! ;

> )

>

> I hope this is helpful and comforting to you, ie it's not you, it's the

> attachment!

>

> SR

>

> >

> > A few months ago I met this amazing man in my ongoing evening class.

> He's 41 years old, never married.

> >

> > It was astonishing how much we have in common: interests, values,

> hobbies, passions and etc.... I even lived in Europe for a year doing

> non-profit work. Turns out his family is from the same country and he use

> to visit the place where I worked!

> >

> > Even crazier...we both grew up in families that did LOTS of foster

> parenting. It turns out, his mother may also be a BPD Waif too! Just like

> mine (except mine can also be a Witch).

> >

> > We just seemed like kindred spirits. Both of us were excited to meet

> each other. We both opened up quickly to each other, seemed really into

> being together. He took me away for the weekend within our fist couple of

> weeks of dating and I hung out with his family. They loved me.

> >

> > Then a week later...he turned distant. I thought, " oh he just needs

> space...that's fine. " But by the next time we talked on the phone (after a

> week), he was obviously annoyed I had called and was making excuses to get

> off the phone. So I wrote him an email later that night, kept it light &

> positive, and said, " It seems things have fizzled out. No big deal. I still

> think you're great. I just need a guy who pursues me. " He never responded

> to the email.

> >

> > I cried for two weeks straight. Dove into dating books to see what I did

> wrong. Turns out I made several classic women-mistakes in dating, but

> nothing which warranted the sudden coldness. Mistakes that actually were

> pretty fixable with a little communication.

> >

> > But he seems to avoid communication with me. It's been 4 months since we

> dated. We've texted a little bit back and forth. But I was always

> initiating (and I'd space them out to 1-3 weeks and would be the first to

> say, " gotta go...take care. " ). So I stopped.

> >

> > In our class, he doesn't look me in the eye. He acts awkward around me.

> I just try to smile and say a polite hello, but he avoids me.

> >

> > So I wrote him for the final time a couple of weeks ago, just to say I

> appreciated him. I said the time we dated helped me change some of my

> approaches to dating. He texted me a week later, simply saying " thanks for

> the email. " I returned his text with an equally polite response.

> >

> > I can't help but feel rejected by this guy. I'm 35 years old and still

> incapable of having a healthy relationship, because I'm drawn to/attract

> men who can't emotionally open up. Otherwise why would I still be hung up

> on a guy who obviously doesn't want me.

> >

> > And dammit...as a kid of a BPD, I struggle to trust my intuition. I

> struggle to believe enough in myself to say, " who cares if we're kindred

> spirits, I don't date men who don't want to make me happy. " I keep wanting

> to believe he really isn't this way, but he's just struggling and will come

> around someday. Yeah right!

> >

> > I feel a ton of shame for my own part in ruining what we could've had.

> And then I get mad at myself for feeling shameful.

> >

> > I don't know what to do...except write about how awful this feels

> instead of continuing to cry all night.

> >

> > Thanks for reading.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm 41 and not yet married. I like to say, " I'm skipping my first marriage and

going straight into my second. " LOL

>

[Guest guest]

" He sounds like he has an avoidant/dismissive attachment style. I have this too.

We run from intimacy. It sounds like you had a wonderful time and then with all

that intimacy he needed to put distance between you. Also avoidant attachment

styles tend to act out more narcisstically, ie protect oneself at all costs,

instead of worrying about the other person feels - which is the co-dependent/

fawning response. "

SR: me, too. I tend to be the same way. My personality was formed watching this

" dance " between my parents. She would fawn and do her best to get his attention

and he would pull back even more.

I am much like my father was. I am working on this in therapy, but I start off

red hot in relationships (I'm married, btw; I'm talking about friendships) and

then once my new friend starts calling me consistently, etc., I distance myself.

I do this much, much less than I used to. But I'm aware of it now.

I agree that April's friend sounds avoidant. I'm glad she learned that now,

rather than later on. Avoidants are frustrating to get to know. I feel like i

never knew my father, like he didn't want to be known.

> >

> > A few months ago I met this amazing man in my ongoing evening class. He's

41 years old, never married.

> >

> > It was astonishing how much we have in common: interests, values, hobbies,

passions and etc.... I even lived in Europe for a year doing non-profit work.

Turns out his family is from the same country and he use to visit the place

where I worked!

> >

> > Even crazier...we both grew up in families that did LOTS of foster

parenting. It turns out, his mother may also be a BPD Waif too! Just like mine

(except mine can also be a Witch).

> >

> > We just seemed like kindred spirits. Both of us were excited to meet each

other. We both opened up quickly to each other, seemed really into being

together. He took me away for the weekend within our fist couple of weeks of

dating and I hung out with his family. They loved me.

> >

> > Then a week later...he turned distant. I thought, " oh he just needs

space...that's fine. " But by the next time we talked on the phone (after a

week), he was obviously annoyed I had called and was making excuses to get off

the phone. So I wrote him an email later that night, kept it light & positive,

and said, " It seems things have fizzled out. No big deal. I still think you're

great. I just need a guy who pursues me. " He never responded to the email.

> >

> > I cried for two weeks straight. Dove into dating books to see what I did

wrong. Turns out I made several classic women-mistakes in dating, but nothing

which warranted the sudden coldness. Mistakes that actually were pretty fixable

with a little communication.

> >

> > But he seems to avoid communication with me. It's been 4 months since we

dated. We've texted a little bit back and forth. But I was always initiating

(and I'd space them out to 1-3 weeks and would be the first to say, " gotta

go...take care. " ). So I stopped.

> >

> > In our class, he doesn't look me in the eye. He acts awkward around me. I

just try to smile and say a polite hello, but he avoids me.

> >

> > So I wrote him for the final time a couple of weeks ago, just to say I

appreciated him. I said the time we dated helped me change some of my approaches

to dating. He texted me a week later, simply saying " thanks for the email. " I

returned his text with an equally polite response.

> >

> > I can't help but feel rejected by this guy. I'm 35 years old and still

incapable of having a healthy relationship, because I'm drawn to/attract men who

can't emotionally open up. Otherwise why would I still be hung up on a guy who

obviously doesn't want me.

> >

> > And dammit...as a kid of a BPD, I struggle to trust my intuition. I

struggle to believe enough in myself to say, " who cares if we're kindred

spirits, I don't date men who don't want to make me happy. " I keep wanting to

believe he really isn't this way, but he's just struggling and will come around

someday. Yeah right!

> >

> > I feel a ton of shame for my own part in ruining what we could've had. And

then I get mad at myself for feeling shameful.

> >

> > I don't know what to do...except write about how awful this feels instead of

continuing to cry all night.

> >

> > Thanks for reading.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

April, that same thing just happened to me too. It's heart breaking.

Met a guy, he pursued me, we dated, went on a great trip together, had fun. He

went away for work and stopped talking with me almost completely. A phantom.

Thanks buddy!

I didn't bother trying to fix it because I know I can't. I simply asked for an

explanation. He told me he was upset at seeing his dad moving on around the date

of mom's passing. I felt badly for him but I wonder if it's a total excuse to

unload me. As if us BPD's don't have enough rejection in our lives.

He says he still wants to be friends and see me when he gets back. He doesn't

want to ruin any chance for future possibilities. I'm thinking that's a big " NO "

and so I'm moving on. 33 and still struggling with having a normal relationship.

NOT FUN.

[Guest guest]

I have some of this too - I can feel smothered very easily in relationship. I

hope I don't offend by saying this, but it is possible that the man in question

simply decided he wanted out for reasons that have nothing to do with attachment

style or personality disorders and was just too much of a coward to be honest.

Some people really do fear confrontation and because of that they just disappear

leaving others to wonder what the hell happened. For the record I do try not

to do this. My advice is accept that for whatever reason this man isn't able

to be a good partner for you and let him go...even if he sends mixed signals

later.

Lobster

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the recommendation to read Attached. It's a great book. I'm

familiar with a lot of the material so far (1/3 way through).

The guy is definitely Avoident. I am a balance of Anxious & Secure. Which

was a relief because I've spent years working on myself. The problem is my

anxiousness in relationships gets triggered when I date an Avoident

personality.

So I need to screen for Secure men and stay away from Avoident men. I also

am finally believing only a fraction of the problem was me. Most of the

issues lie with his stuff. I had just ignored the cues:

- He said he couldn't get a dog because he couldn't get attached, knowing

one day they'd pass.

- He said all of his relationships always ended quickly.

- He buys/sells homes all the time but hasn't ever lived in one of his own.

But the coolest thing about the book is how it validates our need for

connection. That I'm not being told like all of the popular dating books

that my feeling a need for a relationship is wrong. I've been working on

acting ambivalent with men about whether they pursue me or not.

But my warm, caring heart is what should attract a man...because I'm being

genuine.

Of course...I need to be sure I don't let my insecurity to trigger my

Anxiousness. So I need to do a little more work.

But I'm encouraged that I'm not that unhealthy. I need to do the work and

be sure I end up with a secure man.

Cheers!

On Jun 19, 2012 11:51 AM, " April Vermillion " <

april.lynn.vermillion@...> wrote:

> Thanks for the advice everyone.

>

> SR, I know I've got the co-d thing going, but boy have I been working hard

> on it. And while his sudden avoident behavior triggered my co-d a little, I

> quickly caught on to it. That's why I ended the relationship so quickly. I

> even admitted to him I felt like I was starting to feel like I was pursuing

> him, which isn't me.

>

> I know I'll never be perfectly recovered, nor will any guy with a BPD

> family. But I had hoped he'd be willing to work through his fears, knowing

> that I would understand.

>

> I'm so fortunate that I'm a sensitive, driven woman who actively works

> through her stuff. It grieves me how most men from BPD mom's aren't able to

> dig deep enough to heal. So these amazing men will live their lives alone

> and feeling incapable. It just breaks my heart.

>

> But he has gone to therapy, which is why I had hope that he would be

> courageous enough to face his fears while we dated.

>

> I can't wait until I've raised my confidence and self-esteem enough to

> attract more confident men. I need to be with someone who is THRILLED with

> how willing I am to work through a relationship. Who will gladly put the

> time in themselves because he knows that keeping me is TOTALLY worth it!

>

> Honestly I have a history of dating cowardly men with bpd or narcissitic

> parents. And it makes me feel like crap that I fell into the same trap.

> That even at 35 years old I still don't have it together enough.

>

> But all I can do is move forward. So I'll pick up the Attachment book.

> I've come so far in my growth. Someday I'll be able to be in a healthy

> relationship.

>

> And honestly the average dating book and advice from friends is not

> enough. Because while I'm dating, I'm recovering from being emotionally

> abused (and being self-abusive). But maybe someday dating and relationships

> will get easier to handle.

>

> God how being a kid of a BPD sucks! But it could've been worse. I

> could've gotten married before now and been miserable or divorced by now.

> At least being attracted to avoident types has kept me clear of a toxic

> marriage!

>

> Sigh....

>

> Thanks

>

>

>> **

>>

>>

>> April,

>>

>> I'm sorry this didn't work out for you, but I think you have some

>> valuable information here to work with. One thing I think you are

>> overlooking here is the idea of attachment formations. I am on two groups

>> one for children of narcissists and one from bpd. It seems that the

>> overwhelming attachment response to growing up like this is to form a

>> co-dependent attachment. I'm guessing that is what you have. I am guessing,

>> I repeat.

>>

>> He sounds like he has an avoidant/dismissive attachment style. I have

>> this too. We run from intimacy. It sounds like you had a wonderful time and

>> then with all that intimacy he needed to put distance between you. Also

>> avoidant attachment styles tend to act out more narcisstically, ie protect

>> oneself at all costs, instead of worrying about the other person feels -

>> which is the co-dependent/fawning response.

>>

>> Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that acting out narcissitically

>> is being a narc. It's just the self protective defense mechanisms we pick

>> up and model to protect ourselves from our PDparents.

>>

>> Much like borderlines and narcissists love to get together, so do co-d's

>> and avoidants. The more distancing the avoidant becomes (in the face of all

>> that intimacy), the more fawning the co-d will become in their anxious

>> attachment, the more the avoidant further flees. Voila.

>>

>> Mind you, my partner has a bit of co-d, and we've done the dance, but

>> since he is actually more healthy than enabling, and I trust him and feel

>> safe revealing all my darkest secrets and thoughts- I believe he has

>> actually helped me form a more secure attachment with myself and thus

>> everyone (though I have ways to gooooo).

>>

>> There is a book out about attachment styles and love, called Attachment.

>> I advise you to read it and learn about the ways we subconsciously approach

>> relationships is formed through our attachments to our caregivers.

>>

>> I'm guessing, and this is no judgement to you at all, bc I have no idea

>> how you reacted or more importantly, how he perceived it - but I am

>> guessing that he has huge issues with the idea of any woman needing him

>> because that repeats his waify mom and hey, who wouldn't run from that?

>> Especially when you don't have any idea of what you are running from

>> because you don't have awareness about your reactions.

>>

>> Just a thought. At any rate, try not to be so hard on yourself. We all

>> have a lot of unmet needs that we are either actively denying, repressing,

>> or subconsiously acting out on, (in addition to a myriad other choices).

>> Maybe the shame comes in part, because you took a chance and accessed your

>> vulnerability and you still feel rejected. But you did the brave thing,

>> which is to reach out in communion, and he is the one who ran like a coward

>> from his fears. Not to brand him a coward, perhaps an unconscious coward! ;

>> )

>>

>> I hope this is helpful and comforting to you, ie it's not you, it's the

>> attachment!

>>

>> SR

>>

>> >

>> > A few months ago I met this amazing man in my ongoing evening class.

>> He's 41 years old, never married.

>> >

>> > It was astonishing how much we have in common: interests, values,

>> hobbies, passions and etc.... I even lived in Europe for a year doing

>> non-profit work. Turns out his family is from the same country and he use

>> to visit the place where I worked!

>> >

>> > Even crazier...we both grew up in families that did LOTS of foster

>> parenting. It turns out, his mother may also be a BPD Waif too! Just like

>> mine (except mine can also be a Witch).

>> >

>> > We just seemed like kindred spirits. Both of us were excited to meet

>> each other. We both opened up quickly to each other, seemed really into

>> being together. He took me away for the weekend within our fist couple of

>> weeks of dating and I hung out with his family. They loved me.

>> >

>> > Then a week later...he turned distant. I thought, " oh he just needs

>> space...that's fine. " But by the next time we talked on the phone (after a

>> week), he was obviously annoyed I had called and was making excuses to get

>> off the phone. So I wrote him an email later that night, kept it light &

>> positive, and said, " It seems things have fizzled out. No big deal. I still

>> think you're great. I just need a guy who pursues me. " He never responded

>> to the email.

>> >

>> > I cried for two weeks straight. Dove into dating books to see what I

>> did wrong. Turns out I made several classic women-mistakes in dating, but

>> nothing which warranted the sudden coldness. Mistakes that actually were

>> pretty fixable with a little communication.

>> >

>> > But he seems to avoid communication with me. It's been 4 months since

>> we dated. We've texted a little bit back and forth. But I was always

>> initiating (and I'd space them out to 1-3 weeks and would be the first to

>> say, " gotta go...take care. " ). So I stopped.

>> >

>> > In our class, he doesn't look me in the eye. He acts awkward around me.

>> I just try to smile and say a polite hello, but he avoids me.

>> >

>> > So I wrote him for the final time a couple of weeks ago, just to say I

>> appreciated him. I said the time we dated helped me change some of my

>> approaches to dating. He texted me a week later, simply saying " thanks for

>> the email. " I returned his text with an equally polite response.

>> >

>> > I can't help but feel rejected by this guy. I'm 35 years old and still

>> incapable of having a healthy relationship, because I'm drawn to/attract

>> men who can't emotionally open up. Otherwise why would I still be hung up

>> on a guy who obviously doesn't want me.

>> >

>> > And dammit...as a kid of a BPD, I struggle to trust my intuition. I

>> struggle to believe enough in myself to say, " who cares if we're kindred

>> spirits, I don't date men who don't want to make me happy. " I keep wanting

>> to believe he really isn't this way, but he's just struggling and will come

>> around someday. Yeah right!

>> >

>> > I feel a ton of shame for my own part in ruining what we could've had.

>> And then I get mad at myself for feeling shameful.

>> >

>> > I don't know what to do...except write about how awful this feels

>> instead of continuing to cry all night.

>> >

>> > Thanks for reading.

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>

[Guest guest]

April V, that is fantastic, I'm glad you got a lot out of the book.

And nice to be validated that you are secure/anxious ie the work has worked. We

all revert to our defenses when triggered, when we can recognize that it gives

us much more power to control our thoughts/emotions/reactions. Also that you

can now recognize potential signs of an avoidant and seek out the more securely

inclined.

And now I'm sure you also know that that the gentleman bolting was not the worst

thing to happen to you, ie what would be worse is becoming more attached to that

guy and thus endlessly aggravated at a minimum.

I have the book waiting on hold in the library, so haven't read anything but

reviews yet. Can't wait to check it out.

Cheers,

SR

[Guest guest]

Who is the author of " Attached " ? Is it Amir Levine, M.D. and S. F.

Heller, M.A? I'm trying to figure out if I have the right book here, sounds like

a helpful resources....... thx !!

[Guest guest]

Yep HellFireBlonde

On Jun 27, 2012 2:02 PM, " Hellfireblonde " hellfireblonde99@...>

wrote:

> **

>

>

>

> Who is the author of " Attached " ? Is it Amir Levine, M.D. and S. F.

> Heller, M.A? I'm trying to figure out if I have the right book here, sounds

> like a helpful resources....... thx !!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah...it's actually typical for " anxious " types to automatically assume

they are the reason the relationship failed. Hence, that's why I dived

into tons of dating books after things ended with the guy. I wanted to get

myself together (and hoped he would come back if he saw how I changed).

When he blew me off, I assumed he judged me to not be enough or too much.

And these stupid dating books teach women how to play a game so men will

pursue. Which is so NOT ME.

But Attached really validates that yes, you're SUPPOSE to need a

relationship. You just need to be with someone who also embraces his need

to be with someone too. They literally list all of those stupid dating

tips as behavior that's toxic for a healthy relationship (you know...the

waiting several days to call a guy back & etc...).

I've seen the guy several times at class since we stopped dating 4 months

ago. Seriously...the guy still can hardly look me in the eye. He's acting

almost cowardly. While I've made an effort to be relaxed, confident and

easy-going around him. I've been communicative in a light and positive way

with him by text and made sure to smile and look at him when he talks in

class. While he still acts awkward even months after things ended and

avoids being even near me. Dude! We only dated a month!

It's rather interesting. And all the more he's showing me his strong

avoident tendencies (which kicked up my anxiousness).

So I'm setting my standards for a secure guy who can actually be supportive

and caring of me. Someone who will make the effort to communicate how he's

feeling and keep my feelings in mind as we date (e.g. let me know when he

needs space or give me a call when it's been a few days since we've seen

each other).

In my 30s, the dating scene has way more avoident men than secure guys, but

that's ok. The most important step at this point for me is to believe I'm

finally ready for a secure guy. After all the last 2 out of three guys

I've dated have told me I " deserve better. " I think I'm really starting to

believe that.

Thanks Everyone!

> **

>

>

> that is fantastic, I'm glad you got a lot out of the book.

>

> And nice to be validated that you are secure/anxious ie the work has

> worked. We all revert to our defenses when triggered, when we can recognize

> that it gives us much more power to control our

> thoughts/emotions/reactions. Also that you can now recognize potential

> signs of an avoidant and seek out the more securely inclined.

>

> And now I'm sure you also know that that the gentleman bolting was not the

> worst thing to happen to you, ie what would be worse is becoming more

> attached to that guy and thus endlessly aggravated at a minimum.

>

> I have the book waiting on hold in the library, so haven't read anything

> but reviews yet. Can't wait to check it out.

>

> Cheers,

>

> SR

>

>