Anyone else really angry at their enabling siblings?

[Guest guest]

I am the eldest of three adult children; I have a sister (3 years younger) and a

half-brother (13 years younger).

Lately my anger has been really building against my sibs. I live in the same

town as Nada; they live about four hours away (by their choice). Although we're

all pretty smart, we really haven't achieved all we could in life. We all suffer

from depression, low self-esteem, relationship problems, financial problems,

substance abuse (although I've been clean and sober for four years now), etc.

Anyway, because I have the most contact with nada, most of her venom is expended

on me. There was a time in my life when I was NC with my whole family, and I'll

tell you, i am just about ready to chuck all my possessions and ties and run

away again (maybe even change my name).

Anyway, what is really bothering me lately, is that I am the ONLY ONE of us who

ever tries to hold her accountable. I see her being unfair, disparaging and mean

to them (and me) and damn it, I say something about it. But the problem is that

since I am the only one who is trying to do this, it is easy for her to dismiss

what I say, even when I say it calmly, rationally, and in a gentle manner. Also,

the fact that I have an advanced degree in the mental health field counts for

nothing with her. She has very specific ways of measuring success in life, and

since I'm not wealthy with a lot of possessions (I'm in the social services

field, remember)I am not a person who is worthy of respect or consideration.

One-on-one, I have talked with my sibs, and they fully realize that she is sick

and selfish and has had a bad effect on us all. But they simply WILL NOT

confront her face to face. This makes me so angry. I really feel that if we all

were giving her the same message, she would be forced to listen to us. I know

that she herself suffered a lot at the hands of my grandmother, who had BPD,

NPD, and was probably borderline psychotic. She talks a lot to me about the

abuse growing up. But wouldn't you think that remembering all that she suffered

that she would be more sensitive to her own children's pain? This is something

that I just will never understand. And I feel so sad that with two lousy

parents, i can't even depend on my sister and brother for the love that i want

so much.

[Guest guest]

I had a somewhat similar situation with my cousin, who was like a sister to me

(I am an only child). She would freely admit nada's faults on the phone to me,

but would then turn around and completely enable nada. I could not rely on any

emotional support from her whatsoever. I also found my words being turned around

and used against me to other people.

Question- do they enable your nada or are they just refusing to confront her? Do

they set any boundaries with her? I tried to calmly talk and explain things to

my nada time and time again until I realized it was pretty much useless trying

to " reason " with a BPD. They simply cannot accept their behavior/thinking in not

normal. I think your best best would be to stop confronting her and start

setting boundaries and enforcing them.

I'm so sorry you are not getting the emotional support and love you need. that

is so, so horrible. My heart goes out to you. I have felt that way my whole life

and it's very lonely. I have had to create my own family, which does not include

one single FOO member- I have gone NC with all of them. My non-blood family has

given me so much more love and support then my FOO ever did.

>

> I am the eldest of three adult children; I have a sister (3 years younger) and

a half-brother (13 years younger).

>

> Lately my anger has been really building against my sibs. I live in the same

town as Nada; they live about four hours away (by their choice). Although we're

all pretty smart, we really haven't achieved all we could in life. We all suffer

from depression, low self-esteem, relationship problems, financial problems,

substance abuse (although I've been clean and sober for four years now), etc.

Anyway, because I have the most contact with nada, most of her venom is expended

on me. There was a time in my life when I was NC with my whole family, and I'll

tell you, i am just about ready to chuck all my possessions and ties and run

away again (maybe even change my name).

>

> Anyway, what is really bothering me lately, is that I am the ONLY ONE of us

who ever tries to hold her accountable. I see her being unfair, disparaging and

mean to them (and me) and damn it, I say something about it. But the problem is

that since I am the only one who is trying to do this, it is easy for her to

dismiss what I say, even when I say it calmly, rationally, and in a gentle

manner. Also, the fact that I have an advanced degree in the mental health field

counts for nothing with her. She has very specific ways of measuring success in

life, and since I'm not wealthy with a lot of possessions (I'm in the social

services field, remember)I am not a person who is worthy of respect or

consideration.

>

> One-on-one, I have talked with my sibs, and they fully realize that she is

sick and selfish and has had a bad effect on us all. But they simply WILL NOT

confront her face to face. This makes me so angry. I really feel that if we all

were giving her the same message, she would be forced to listen to us. I know

that she herself suffered a lot at the hands of my grandmother, who had BPD,

NPD, and was probably borderline psychotic. She talks a lot to me about the

abuse growing up. But wouldn't you think that remembering all that she suffered

that she would be more sensitive to her own children's pain? This is something

that I just will never understand. And I feel so sad that with two lousy

parents, i can't even depend on my sister and brother for the love that i want

so much.

>

[Guest guest]

This is precisely why I don't go to family gatherings anymore. I'm the only one

who calls nada on any of her crap, and then she starts crying, and then I'm the

bad guy. And they think I should bring my kids along. No way, man. They need to

know what's normal first.

I've moved beyond the anger at my sibs, though. I mostly just see them as weak.

I was mad at them for a while, until I realized that by being mad at them I was

still clinging to the hope that I could have a normal relationship with my

parents; i.e. if my siblings would only call mom out on her behavior then I

could have a normal relationship with her. With a personality disorder, it is

very very unlikely that they will change. I had to come to terms with a. I'm the

one who decides what I'm putting up with and what I'm not, b. the same holds

true for them, c. we've made different choices regarding the crazy lady.

For what it's worth, my husband has what I believe to be a seriously NPD father.

All of his children have called him on his crap and no longer visit him. Did

this lead him soul-searching? Nope, in his mind ALL of his children are evil and

don't deserve to be around him anyway. He's now in his early 70's and living

alone.

>

> I am the eldest of three adult children; I have a sister (3 years younger) and

a half-brother (13 years younger).

>

> Lately my anger has been really building against my sibs. I live in the same

town as Nada; they live about four hours away (by their choice). Although we're

all pretty smart, we really haven't achieved all we could in life. We all suffer

from depression, low self-esteem, relationship problems, financial problems,

substance abuse (although I've been clean and sober for four years now), etc.

Anyway, because I have the most contact with nada, most of her venom is expended

on me. There was a time in my life when I was NC with my whole family, and I'll

tell you, i am just about ready to chuck all my possessions and ties and run

away again (maybe even change my name).

>

> Anyway, what is really bothering me lately, is that I am the ONLY ONE of us

who ever tries to hold her accountable. I see her being unfair, disparaging and

mean to them (and me) and damn it, I say something about it. But the problem is

that since I am the only one who is trying to do this, it is easy for her to

dismiss what I say, even when I say it calmly, rationally, and in a gentle

manner. Also, the fact that I have an advanced degree in the mental health field

counts for nothing with her. She has very specific ways of measuring success in

life, and since I'm not wealthy with a lot of possessions (I'm in the social

services field, remember)I am not a person who is worthy of respect or

consideration.

>

> One-on-one, I have talked with my sibs, and they fully realize that she is

sick and selfish and has had a bad effect on us all. But they simply WILL NOT

confront her face to face. This makes me so angry. I really feel that if we all

were giving her the same message, she would be forced to listen to us. I know

that she herself suffered a lot at the hands of my grandmother, who had BPD,

NPD, and was probably borderline psychotic. She talks a lot to me about the

abuse growing up. But wouldn't you think that remembering all that she suffered

that she would be more sensitive to her own children's pain? This is something

that I just will never understand. And I feel so sad that with two lousy

parents, i can't even depend on my sister and brother for the love that i want

so much.

>

[Guest guest]

SherryM,

I think there's a lot to think about here. Remember, chances are

very high that all three of you were abused growing up. Everyone

has to find their own path to dealing with an emotionally

abusive parent. There is no One True Way. Confrontation may be

something that helps you. That doesn't mean it is something that

works for your siblings. For them, it may cause more stress and

pain. None of us have the right to dictate how anyone else

should feel any more than our nadas and fadas have the right to

dictate how we feel. Your siblings have to be allowed to find

their own ways of handling what happened to them and of dealing

with your nada.

I think you may be overlooking something. Even if your siblings

joined you in confronting your nada, there is little chance that

it would change the way she thinks and acts. Confrontation

doesn't make people with BPD suddenly come to their senses and

realize they're mentally ill and misbehaving. Confrontation

tends to make them act out more, not less. If you all confronted

her together, that might spread her anger more evenly but all of

you trying to give her the same message is still not going to

actually give her that message. The message she'll get is that

her children are attacking her for no known reason (because to

her, your reasons aren't valid or real.) And no, remembering

personal suffering does not usually make someone with BPD more

sensitive to her own children's suffering. Nadas are too wrapped

up in their own pain (real or imagined) to have room for anyone

else's pain. Their own pain is ever so much more important to

them and no one else's can match theirs.

My recommendation is to stop trying to get your siblings to fit

into your mold. Failing to be confrontational isn't the same as

enabling. Are they doing things that support your nada's

misbehavior either directly or indirectly? If they are, that's a

problem and it might help to give them some books about BPD and

dealing with it. They should definitely set their own boundaries

and not let her walk all over them, but their choices for where

they want to draw the line and what to do when it is crossed

have to be their own. It is possible that they have good

boundaries that just don't match your boundaries. People make

different choices about which battles are worth fighting. It

sounds like they just don't think standing up to her is worth

the effort. There are a number of possible explanations for

that, most of which have nothing to do with whether they love

and support you or not. They may have concluded that

confrontation makes things worse. The stress of confronting her

might make them feel sick. They may just want to get visits over

as soon as possible so they can get away from her. They may not

realize how wrong and abnormal some of the things she does are.

They may still be too much under her power to be able to go

against her.

Also, I recommend that you separate the ideas of your siblings

loving you from the relationships that the three of you have

with your nada. Not wanting to confront her says nothing either

way about whether they love you. I don't see anything in your

message that tells me what kind of relationship you have with

them apart from this one issue. Do you have a good relationship

otherwise? Is their refusal to confront her poisoning your

relationship to the point where you can't get past it? Something

in-between? Please, don't let your nada poison your relationship

with your siblings. Don't give her that power.

I have a brother who is 3 years younger than me and a

half-sister who is 20 years younger than me. My brother is on

relatively good terms with our mother as far as I know but he

lives on the opposite side of the country and rarely sees her.

My sister went NC when she graduated from college and joined the

military. She never told nada how to reach her after she left

college so nada has no choice in that matter. I can't hide from

nada so I have contact with her because that causes less

problems than trying to avoid her. The fact that we've all

chosen different ways of dealing with nada doesn't stop the

three of us from caring about each other. My sister and I don't

say much to our brother about nada's misbehavior when we see him

and we've made clear to him that he shouldn't repeat things to

her. He knows that we don't get along with her but it isn't

something any of feel a need to discuss. Sometimes it is

necessary to agree to disagree. Sometimes it is necessary to

stop having contact with people who are flying monkees for

someone with BPD, but what you've said here doesn't give me the

impression that they're flying monkees who are under her sway

and actively helping her against you.

At 03:33 PM 06/25/2012 SherryM wrote:

>I am the eldest of three adult children; I have a sister (3

>years younger) and a half-brother (13 years younger).

>

>Lately my anger has been really building against my sibs. I

>live in the same town as Nada; they live about four hours away

>(by their choice). Although we're all pretty smart, we really

>haven't achieved all we could in life. We all suffer from

>depression, low self-esteem, relationship problems, financial

>problems, substance abuse (although I've been clean and sober

>for four years now), etc. Anyway, because I have the most

>contact with nada, most of her venom is expended on me. There

>was a time in my life when I was NC with my whole family, and

>I'll tell you, i am just about ready to chuck all my

>possessions and ties and run away again (maybe even change my

>name).

>

>Anyway, what is really bothering me lately, is that I am the

>ONLY ONE of us who ever tries to hold her accountable. I see

>her being unfair, disparaging and mean to them (and me) and

>damn it, I say something about it. But the problem is that

>since I am the only one who is trying to do this, it is easy

>for her to dismiss what I say, even when I say it calmly,

>rationally, and in a gentle manner. Also, the fact that I have

>an advanced degree in the mental health field counts for

>nothing with her. She has very specific ways of measuring

>success in life, and since I'm not wealthy with a lot of

>possessions (I'm in the social services field, remember)I am

>not a person who is worthy of respect or consideration.

>

>One-on-one, I have talked with my sibs, and they fully realize

>that she is sick and selfish and has had a bad effect on us

>all. But they simply WILL NOT confront her face to face. This

>makes me so angry. I really feel that if we all were giving her

>the same message, she would be forced to listen to us. I know

>that she herself suffered a lot at the hands of my grandmother,

>who had BPD, NPD, and was probably borderline psychotic. She

>talks a lot to me about the abuse growing up. But wouldn't you

>think that remembering all that she suffered that she would be

>more sensitive to her own children's pain? This is something

>that I just will never understand. And I feel so sad that with

>two lousy parents, i can't even depend on my sister and brother

>for the love that i want so much.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

This is so well put and says just what I would have said regarding this post.

People are where they are, and we just can't expect them to always be where we

are. Whether or not they wish to deal with your mother the way you are dealing

with her says nothing about how they feel for you, or how much they love you.

Deanna

>

> SherryM,

> I think there's a lot to think about here. Remember, chances are

> very high that all three of you were abused growing up. Everyone

> has to find their own path to dealing with an emotionally

> abusive parent. There is no One True Way. Confrontation may be

> something that helps you. That doesn't mean it is something that

> works for your siblings. For them, it may cause more stress and

> pain. None of us have the right to dictate how anyone else

> should feel any more than our nadas and fadas have the right to

> dictate how we feel. Your siblings have to be allowed to find

> their own ways of handling what happened to them and of dealing

> with your nada.

>

> I think you may be overlooking something. Even if your siblings

> joined you in confronting your nada, there is little chance that

> it would change the way she thinks and acts. Confrontation

> doesn't make people with BPD suddenly come to their senses and

> realize they're mentally ill and misbehaving. Confrontation

> tends to make them act out more, not less. If you all confronted

> her together, that might spread her anger more evenly but all of

> you trying to give her the same message is still not going to

> actually give her that message. The message she'll get is that

> her children are attacking her for no known reason (because to

> her, your reasons aren't valid or real.) And no, remembering

> personal suffering does not usually make someone with BPD more

> sensitive to her own children's suffering. Nadas are too wrapped

> up in their own pain (real or imagined) to have room for anyone

> else's pain. Their own pain is ever so much more important to

> them and no one else's can match theirs.

>

>

> My recommendation is to stop trying to get your siblings to fit

> into your mold. Failing to be confrontational isn't the same as

> enabling. Are they doing things that support your nada's

> misbehavior either directly or indirectly? If they are, that's a

> problem and it might help to give them some books about BPD and

> dealing with it. They should definitely set their own boundaries

> and not let her walk all over them, but their choices for where

> they want to draw the line and what to do when it is crossed

> have to be their own. It is possible that they have good

> boundaries that just don't match your boundaries. People make

> different choices about which battles are worth fighting. It

> sounds like they just don't think standing up to her is worth

> the effort. There are a number of possible explanations for

> that, most of which have nothing to do with whether they love

> and support you or not. They may have concluded that

> confrontation makes things worse. The stress of confronting her

> might make them feel sick. They may just want to get visits over

> as soon as possible so they can get away from her. They may not

> realize how wrong and abnormal some of the things she does are.

> They may still be too much under her power to be able to go

> against her.

>

> Also, I recommend that you separate the ideas of your siblings

> loving you from the relationships that the three of you have

> with your nada. Not wanting to confront her says nothing either

> way about whether they love you. I don't see anything in your

> message that tells me what kind of relationship you have with

> them apart from this one issue. Do you have a good relationship

> otherwise? Is their refusal to confront her poisoning your

> relationship to the point where you can't get past it? Something

> in-between? Please, don't let your nada poison your relationship

> with your siblings. Don't give her that power.

>

> I have a brother who is 3 years younger than me and a

> half-sister who is 20 years younger than me. My brother is on

> relatively good terms with our mother as far as I know but he

> lives on the opposite side of the country and rarely sees her.

> My sister went NC when she graduated from college and joined the

> military. She never told nada how to reach her after she left

> college so nada has no choice in that matter. I can't hide from

> nada so I have contact with her because that causes less

> problems than trying to avoid her. The fact that we've all

> chosen different ways of dealing with nada doesn't stop the

> three of us from caring about each other. My sister and I don't

> say much to our brother about nada's misbehavior when we see him

> and we've made clear to him that he shouldn't repeat things to

> her. He knows that we don't get along with her but it isn't

> something any of feel a need to discuss. Sometimes it is

> necessary to agree to disagree. Sometimes it is necessary to

> stop having contact with people who are flying monkees for

> someone with BPD, but what you've said here doesn't give me the

> impression that they're flying monkees who are under her sway

> and actively helping her against you.

[Guest guest]

I agree that failing to confront doesn't equal enabling.

SherryM's post got me thinking about it because I *am* angry at my brother. I

am angry that he has allowed our mother to ruin him with her guilt and

waifiness. And that it's ok with him that her behavior basically says, " I really

don't give a rat's ass about your life - that you have hardly any friends, that

you haven't had a relationship in at least 15 years, and that I act like a witch

when you talk about your hobbies. I want ME to be the center of your life and

concerns. Oh, and thanks for calling me 4 times a day. It's not enough, but

we'll work on that. "

He has become like her - nervous, edgy; if you say anything about my kids, he

has to remind me of all the horrific things that could happen if I let them do

whatever we're doing.

It angers me that it doesn't bother him. But I recently wondered out loud if he

LIKES it. It's his choice. I know he thinks I'm a coldhearted bitch b/c I don't

do what he does. But really, maybe he LIKES this way of life and intentionally

uses it to shield him from engaging with a full life.

I don't know. It has made me angry but I can't make him see what he doesn't want

to see.

Fiona

> >

> > SherryM,

> > I think there's a lot to think about here. Remember, chances are

> > very high that all three of you were abused growing up. Everyone

> > has to find their own path to dealing with an emotionally

> > abusive parent. There is no One True Way. Confrontation may be

> > something that helps you. That doesn't mean it is something that

> > works for your siblings. For them, it may cause more stress and

> > pain. None of us have the right to dictate how anyone else

> > should feel any more than our nadas and fadas have the right to

> > dictate how we feel. Your siblings have to be allowed to find

> > their own ways of handling what happened to them and of dealing

> > with your nada.

> >

> > I think you may be overlooking something. Even if your siblings

> > joined you in confronting your nada, there is little chance that

> > it would change the way she thinks and acts. Confrontation

> > doesn't make people with BPD suddenly come to their senses and

> > realize they're mentally ill and misbehaving. Confrontation

> > tends to make them act out more, not less. If you all confronted

> > her together, that might spread her anger more evenly but all of

> > you trying to give her the same message is still not going to

> > actually give her that message. The message she'll get is that

> > her children are attacking her for no known reason (because to

> > her, your reasons aren't valid or real.) And no, remembering

> > personal suffering does not usually make someone with BPD more

> > sensitive to her own children's suffering. Nadas are too wrapped

> > up in their own pain (real or imagined) to have room for anyone

> > else's pain. Their own pain is ever so much more important to

> > them and no one else's can match theirs.

> >

> >

> > My recommendation is to stop trying to get your siblings to fit

> > into your mold. Failing to be confrontational isn't the same as

> > enabling. Are they doing things that support your nada's

> > misbehavior either directly or indirectly? If they are, that's a

> > problem and it might help to give them some books about BPD and

> > dealing with it. They should definitely set their own boundaries

> > and not let her walk all over them, but their choices for where

> > they want to draw the line and what to do when it is crossed

> > have to be their own. It is possible that they have good

> > boundaries that just don't match your boundaries. People make

> > different choices about which battles are worth fighting. It

> > sounds like they just don't think standing up to her is worth

> > the effort. There are a number of possible explanations for

> > that, most of which have nothing to do with whether they love

> > and support you or not. They may have concluded that

> > confrontation makes things worse. The stress of confronting her

> > might make them feel sick. They may just want to get visits over

> > as soon as possible so they can get away from her. They may not

> > realize how wrong and abnormal some of the things she does are.

> > They may still be too much under her power to be able to go

> > against her.

> >

> > Also, I recommend that you separate the ideas of your siblings

> > loving you from the relationships that the three of you have

> > with your nada. Not wanting to confront her says nothing either

> > way about whether they love you. I don't see anything in your

> > message that tells me what kind of relationship you have with

> > them apart from this one issue. Do you have a good relationship

> > otherwise? Is their refusal to confront her poisoning your

> > relationship to the point where you can't get past it? Something

> > in-between? Please, don't let your nada poison your relationship

> > with your siblings. Don't give her that power.

> >

> > I have a brother who is 3 years younger than me and a

> > half-sister who is 20 years younger than me. My brother is on

> > relatively good terms with our mother as far as I know but he

> > lives on the opposite side of the country and rarely sees her.

> > My sister went NC when she graduated from college and joined the

> > military. She never told nada how to reach her after she left

> > college so nada has no choice in that matter. I can't hide from

> > nada so I have contact with her because that causes less

> > problems than trying to avoid her. The fact that we've all

> > chosen different ways of dealing with nada doesn't stop the

> > three of us from caring about each other. My sister and I don't

> > say much to our brother about nada's misbehavior when we see him

> > and we've made clear to him that he shouldn't repeat things to

> > her. He knows that we don't get along with her but it isn't

> > something any of feel a need to discuss. Sometimes it is

> > necessary to agree to disagree. Sometimes it is necessary to

> > stop having contact with people who are flying monkees for

> > someone with BPD, but what you've said here doesn't give me the

> > impression that they're flying monkees who are under her sway

> > and actively helping her against you.

>

[Guest guest]

I so can relate. I only have one brother, but he lives 8 hours away and has

detached himself from the family. I have lost most of the contact with my

cousins, only have one that will talk to me at all, because I have tried to help

my nada, and admittedly, have been her doormat for years. I have up and left

and tried to distance myself from her too, the last time I moved to Tennessee,

she moved to Alabama, and we were two hours away. Not a lot, but enough to make

it a bit easier. But last year, she decided that she needed to be closer to her

granddaughter (my daughter) who she all but claims as her own, and moved to the

next town. So, now I am back in the same boat. My DH refuses to move again,

tho I'm thinking of any excuse to leave TN now, tho I love this city. Anyways,

I've tried to discuss it with my brother, whom I love, but have never been close

too, probably because I allowed myself to be the doormat.....he has felt his own

effects living with a nada, and suffers from bipolar disorder, but is medicated

and does well with it.....I get mad too that I'm the only one who deals with

this, while everyone else (cousins, uncles, brother, nephews) just go on with

their lives, while I'm stuck here. Thank God for my counselor, without her

sometimes eating a bullet would be an option! Hang in there.....I'm sorry I

don't have any advice really, and I guess I am rambling, but I can say I feel

your pain!! Tina

>

> I am the eldest of three adult children; I have a sister (3 years younger) and

a half-brother (13 years younger).

>

> Lately my anger has been really building against my sibs. I live in the same

town as Nada; they live about four hours away (by their choice). Although we're

all pretty smart, we really haven't achieved all we could in life. We all suffer

from depression, low self-esteem, relationship problems, financial problems,

substance abuse (although I've been clean and sober for four years now), etc.

Anyway, because I have the most contact with nada, most of her venom is expended

on me. There was a time in my life when I was NC with my whole family, and I'll

tell you, i am just about ready to chuck all my possessions and ties and run

away again (maybe even change my name).

>

> Anyway, what is really bothering me lately, is that I am the ONLY ONE of us

who ever tries to hold her accountable. I see her being unfair, disparaging and

mean to them (and me) and damn it, I say something about it. But the problem is

that since I am the only one who is trying to do this, it is easy for her to

dismiss what I say, even when I say it calmly, rationally, and in a gentle

manner. Also, the fact that I have an advanced degree in the mental health field

counts for nothing with her. She has very specific ways of measuring success in

life, and since I'm not wealthy with a lot of possessions (I'm in the social

services field, remember)I am not a person who is worthy of respect or

consideration.

>

> One-on-one, I have talked with my sibs, and they fully realize that she is

sick and selfish and has had a bad effect on us all. But they simply WILL NOT

confront her face to face. This makes me so angry. I really feel that if we all

were giving her the same message, she would be forced to listen to us. I know

that she herself suffered a lot at the hands of my grandmother, who had BPD,

NPD, and was probably borderline psychotic. She talks a lot to me about the

abuse growing up. But wouldn't you think that remembering all that she suffered

that she would be more sensitive to her own children's pain? This is something

that I just will never understand. And I feel so sad that with two lousy

parents, i can't even depend on my sister and brother for the love that i want

so much.

>

[Guest guest]

It is hard, once we come to our own realization about just how severely

dysfunctional and even destructive to us our relationship with our bpd parent

actually is, and once we have our own epiphany and begin to change ourselves,

its really hard to see a sibling who is still deeply enmeshed, still so very

blind and deaf to the reality we can now perceive so clearly.

Its sort of as though we used to be alcoholics and now we are sober and wish to

stay sober; it makes it twice as hard (virtually impossible) to be around those

who are still alcoholics. You want to save them, shake them until they " wake

up " and realize that they're killing themselves.

But you can't rescue your brother from his unhealthy emotional enmeshment with

your mother (his addiction.) He is an adult and so he has to have his own

epiphany or breakthrough of insight and acceptance, and he has to WANT to

un-enmesh himself (in the same way that an alcoholic has to WANT to stop

drinking.)

All you can do is maintain your own healthy boundaries and if he asks, perhaps

offer him some suggestions about good reading material to educate himself about

personality disorders and bpd in particular, or about a good therapist that

understands how personality disordered parents can severely warp their child's

life-trajectory.

-Annie

> > >

> > > SherryM,

> > > I think there's a lot to think about here. Remember, chances are

> > > very high that all three of you were abused growing up. Everyone

> > > has to find their own path to dealing with an emotionally

> > > abusive parent. There is no One True Way. Confrontation may be

> > > something that helps you. That doesn't mean it is something that

> > > works for your siblings. For them, it may cause more stress and

> > > pain. None of us have the right to dictate how anyone else

> > > should feel any more than our nadas and fadas have the right to

> > > dictate how we feel. Your siblings have to be allowed to find

> > > their own ways of handling what happened to them and of dealing

> > > with your nada.

> > >

> > > I think you may be overlooking something. Even if your siblings

> > > joined you in confronting your nada, there is little chance that

> > > it would change the way she thinks and acts. Confrontation

> > > doesn't make people with BPD suddenly come to their senses and

> > > realize they're mentally ill and misbehaving. Confrontation

> > > tends to make them act out more, not less. If you all confronted

> > > her together, that might spread her anger more evenly but all of

> > > you trying to give her the same message is still not going to

> > > actually give her that message. The message she'll get is that

> > > her children are attacking her for no known reason (because to

> > > her, your reasons aren't valid or real.) And no, remembering

> > > personal suffering does not usually make someone with BPD more

> > > sensitive to her own children's suffering. Nadas are too wrapped

> > > up in their own pain (real or imagined) to have room for anyone

> > > else's pain. Their own pain is ever so much more important to

> > > them and no one else's can match theirs.

> > >

> > >

> > > My recommendation is to stop trying to get your siblings to fit

> > > into your mold. Failing to be confrontational isn't the same as

> > > enabling. Are they doing things that support your nada's

> > > misbehavior either directly or indirectly? If they are, that's a

> > > problem and it might help to give them some books about BPD and

> > > dealing with it. They should definitely set their own boundaries

> > > and not let her walk all over them, but their choices for where

> > > they want to draw the line and what to do when it is crossed

> > > have to be their own. It is possible that they have good

> > > boundaries that just don't match your boundaries. People make

> > > different choices about which battles are worth fighting. It

> > > sounds like they just don't think standing up to her is worth

> > > the effort. There are a number of possible explanations for

> > > that, most of which have nothing to do with whether they love

> > > and support you or not. They may have concluded that

> > > confrontation makes things worse. The stress of confronting her

> > > might make them feel sick. They may just want to get visits over

> > > as soon as possible so they can get away from her. They may not

> > > realize how wrong and abnormal some of the things she does are.

> > > They may still be too much under her power to be able to go

> > > against her.

> > >

> > > Also, I recommend that you separate the ideas of your siblings

> > > loving you from the relationships that the three of you have

> > > with your nada. Not wanting to confront her says nothing either

> > > way about whether they love you. I don't see anything in your

> > > message that tells me what kind of relationship you have with

> > > them apart from this one issue. Do you have a good relationship

> > > otherwise? Is their refusal to confront her poisoning your

> > > relationship to the point where you can't get past it? Something

> > > in-between? Please, don't let your nada poison your relationship

> > > with your siblings. Don't give her that power.

> > >

> > > I have a brother who is 3 years younger than me and a

> > > half-sister who is 20 years younger than me. My brother is on

> > > relatively good terms with our mother as far as I know but he

> > > lives on the opposite side of the country and rarely sees her.

> > > My sister went NC when she graduated from college and joined the

> > > military. She never told nada how to reach her after she left

> > > college so nada has no choice in that matter. I can't hide from

> > > nada so I have contact with her because that causes less

> > > problems than trying to avoid her. The fact that we've all

> > > chosen different ways of dealing with nada doesn't stop the

> > > three of us from caring about each other. My sister and I don't

> > > say much to our brother about nada's misbehavior when we see him

> > > and we've made clear to him that he shouldn't repeat things to

> > > her. He knows that we don't get along with her but it isn't

> > > something any of feel a need to discuss. Sometimes it is

> > > necessary to agree to disagree. Sometimes it is necessary to

> > > stop having contact with people who are flying monkees for

> > > someone with BPD, but what you've said here doesn't give me the

> > > impression that they're flying monkees who are under her sway

> > > and actively helping her against you.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Let me also add--

We are all recovering from our childhood at our own pace, and it is not a linear

progression. I sometimes get frustrated with my sister, and there are times when

she gets frustrated with me. We try to support each other, but sometimes its

hard watching sis bash her head into the nada wall on issues I've processed and

overcome.

I spent most of my life being the golden enmeshed child, my sis the scapegoat.

Since nada 'reassigned' our roles a while back, it has thrown both of us into

new territory. Sis just found herself the victim of a nada crazy scheme,

something she got into only by being nada's confidant. I find it difficult to

get angry with Sis for falling into the same trap that was part of my life for

years.

>

> It is hard, once we come to our own realization about just how severely

dysfunctional and even destructive to us our relationship with our bpd parent

actually is, and once we have our own epiphany and begin to change ourselves,

its really hard to see a sibling who is still deeply enmeshed, still so very

blind and deaf to the reality we can now perceive so clearly.

>

> Its sort of as though we used to be alcoholics and now we are sober and wish

to stay sober; it makes it twice as hard (virtually impossible) to be around

those who are still alcoholics. You want to save them, shake them until they

" wake up " and realize that they're killing themselves.

>

> But you can't rescue your brother from his unhealthy emotional enmeshment with

your mother (his addiction.) He is an adult and so he has to have his own

epiphany or breakthrough of insight and acceptance, and he has to WANT to

un-enmesh himself (in the same way that an alcoholic has to WANT to stop

drinking.)

>

> All you can do is maintain your own healthy boundaries and if he asks, perhaps

offer him some suggestions about good reading material to educate himself about

personality disorders and bpd in particular, or about a good therapist that

understands how personality disordered parents can severely warp their child's

life-trajectory.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sherry,

Thank you for being so transparent. I totally relate to your situation.

I'm the oldest of 7 kids and the " bad " child according to my mom because I

" didn't drink the koolaid. " And all of my siblings are either enmeshed or

passive about my mom's BPD.

I spent an entire year in therapy just grieving about my family.

That neither she or my passive father will be able to love us well. And

yes...I grieved how my siblings may never be able to be my actual siblings.

God it was incredibly hard. I went through months of just being furious

with my whole family and NC because I just let myself really feel the pain.

It sucked, but I knew I had to do this in order to stop giving these

feelings about my family so much power over my life.

Eventually I started to feel better. It's been a permanent improvement in

my life. I now accept there's this hole in my heart for my family which

will never be filled. I think of my need for my family like a medical

condition, which can't be cured. I learn to live with the hole and

minimize the " inflamation. " Because I deserve to live a satisfying life!

So I choose to live 1,000 miles from my family. I have several " moms &

dads " in my life where I live. They're wonderful people who are aware of my

situation. So they make an effort to be there for me. Last year I even

spent the holidays with them instead of seeing my family. My older friends

don't replace my parents, but they show me I'm a love-able person and give

me the encouragement I need. And I'm around positive, better-adjusted

families, so there's way less drama in my life.

I have several friends (men & women) who are like siblings for me too. We

talk a lot and get together when we can. So I've created my own family

(which is what we adults are suppose to do anyway I think).

When I visit my biological family, I stay at a hotel. This creates more of

a " hey, I'm just a guest visiting extended family who I'm not that close

to " feeling. It helps A LOT! And I make plans to talk with my friends and

" moms & dads " every night I visit my biological family. This way I'm not

as tempted to try to emotionally connect with my biological family, because

I know I can talk that night to the people who are TRULY there for me.

When I come home after seeing my biological family, I take an extra day off

from work. Because I know I'm still going to hurt and need some space to

grieve. I anticipate I'm going to feel bad and will do good things for

myself (like get a massage, talk to friends who will let me cry and

etc...). My recovery time has gotten a lot better. Now-a-days I only need

a day before I'm back on my feet again.

Hang in there. I hope you find your own path to peace with your family.

> **

>

>

> Let me also add--

>

> We are all recovering from our childhood at our own pace, and it is not a

> linear progression. I sometimes get frustrated with my sister, and there

> are times when she gets frustrated with me. We try to support each other,

> but sometimes its hard watching sis bash her head into the nada wall on

> issues I've processed and overcome.

>

> I spent most of my life being the golden enmeshed child, my sis the

> scapegoat. Since nada 'reassigned' our roles a while back, it has thrown

> both of us into new territory. Sis just found herself the victim of a nada

> crazy scheme, something she got into only by being nada's confidant. I find

> it difficult to get angry with Sis for falling into the same trap that was

> part of my life for years.

>

>

> >

> > It is hard, once we come to our own realization about just how severely

> dysfunctional and even destructive to us our relationship with our bpd

> parent actually is, and once we have our own epiphany and begin to change

> ourselves, its really hard to see a sibling who is still deeply enmeshed,

> still so very blind and deaf to the reality we can now perceive so clearly.

> >

> > Its sort of as though we used to be alcoholics and now we are sober and

> wish to stay sober; it makes it twice as hard (virtually impossible) to be

> around those who are still alcoholics. You want to save them, shake them

> until they " wake up " and realize that they're killing themselves.

> >

> > But you can't rescue your brother from his unhealthy emotional

> enmeshment with your mother (his addiction.) He is an adult and so he has

> to have his own epiphany or breakthrough of insight and acceptance, and he

> has to WANT to un-enmesh himself (in the same way that an alcoholic has to

> WANT to stop drinking.)

> >

> > All you can do is maintain your own healthy boundaries and if he asks,

> perhaps offer him some suggestions about good reading material to educate

> himself about personality disorders and bpd in particular, or about a good

> therapist that understands how personality disordered parents can severely

> warp their child's life-trajectory.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

>

>