BPD and Jealousy

[Guest guest]

I have been able to see my NADA had jealousy directed at me with the help of a

therapist. I can clearly see before age 13, she had her moments but after I

turned 13 they became more frequent and more volatile. I have memories where

returning home from a social function my NADA would become vicious towards me.

I know her NADA did this to her as well. If someone gave me a compliment and my

NADA could not take credit or have the compliment geared towards herself, she

would chastise me later when it was just the two of us. Someone gave me a

compliment and my Nada's nada told them they were incorrect that I didn't

deserve the compliment as I had (Fill in the blank).

Since my NADA had experienced trauma between ages 12 and 13, I thought my

reaching that age triggered her suppressed/ repressed memories. I was shocked

to realize some of her issues were also jealousy that she felt I was taking too

much attention from her.

Over the past year, I have come to realize that I don't recognize jealousy and

this has caused problems for me professionally and personally. The shocker for

my friends is that I am pretty good about perceiving other's emotions. If

emotions were Crayolas I have the 96 pack with the sharpener. A survival trait

developed from having to gauge my NADA's moods. I especially get the wrath of

people who like to take credit for everything and will sabotage someone if they

cannot receive top billing. I attract them. Having grown up with one, I seem

to be comfortable in my discomfort around them. I am working on this.

It has been painful to realize my own NADA has been jealous of me and at times

lashes out because of that jealousy. That her feelings of jealousy outweighed

her feelings of love for me. She also has my sympathy and empathy as her own

nada was especially cruel to her due to jealousy. I guess I should not be

shocked when most fairytales have this as an underlying theme.

For any of you, did you notice a time when your NADA/FADA's behavior changed?

Has anyone else felt / realized that their own parents were jealous of them?

[Guest guest]

I can't say I remember any point where my nada's behavior showed

a drastic change, but I've felt she was jealous of me for years.

I think she's jealous that my sister and I are happy with our

lives. I think she was jealous when I had a long-term

relationship - not just the common nada objection to anyone

stealing any of what they think should be their attention, but

also jealousy that we cared about each other and I was happy. I

think she's always been jealous of the fact that I enjoy my work

while she always claimed to hate her work. She seems torn

between trying to bask in the reflected glory from our

accomplishments and being incredibly jealous of them.

At 07:15 PM 06/28/2012 myreality67 wrote:

>I have been able to see my NADA had jealousy directed at me

>with the help of a therapist. I can clearly see before age 13,

>she had her moments but after I turned 13 they became more

>frequent and more volatile. I have memories where returning

>home from a social function my NADA would become vicious

>towards me.

>

>I know her NADA did this to her as well. If someone gave me a

>compliment and my NADA could not take credit or have the

>compliment geared towards herself, she would chastise me later

>when it was just the two of us. Someone gave me a compliment

>and my Nada's nada told them they were incorrect that I didn't

>deserve the compliment as I had (Fill in the blank).

>

>Since my NADA had experienced trauma between ages 12 and 13, I

>thought my reaching that age triggered her suppressed/

>repressed memories. I was shocked to realize some of her

>issues were also jealousy that she felt I was taking too much

>attention from her.

>

>Over the past year, I have come to realize that I don't

>recognize jealousy and this has caused problems for me

>professionally and personally. The shocker for my friends is

>that I am pretty good about perceiving other's emotions. If

>emotions were Crayolas I have the 96 pack with the sharpener. A

>survival trait developed from having to gauge my NADA's

>moods. I especially get the wrath of people who like to take

>credit for everything and will sabotage someone if they cannot

>receive top billing. I attract them. Having grown up with

>one, I seem to be comfortable in my discomfort around them. I

>am working on this.

>

>It has been painful to realize my own NADA has been jealous of

>me and at times lashes out because of that jealousy. That her

>feelings of jealousy outweighed her feelings of love for

>me. She also has my sympathy and empathy as her own nada was

>especially cruel to her due to jealousy. I guess I should not

>be shocked when most fairytales have this as an underlying

>theme.

>

>For any of you, did you notice a time when your NADA/FADA's

>behavior changed? Has anyone else felt / realized that their

>own parents were jealous of them?

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Hi myreality67 and all, I'm sorry ur nada was and is jealous of u!  I don't know

if it's a BPD trait or not, but I know my nada has it, too.  Her nada (who also

is BPD), my gnada, doesn't seem to be jealous of me nor my nada, her daughter.

 I never knew she was jealous of me until recently.  Actually, many people her

know her told me many years ago that she was.  I never believed them bc I didn't

think it was possible for 'a mom who's supposed to love u, support u, encourage

u, and be proud of your success/es, to Ever be like that.  My gnada even said it

a few years ago about her own daughter!!

Just by the way nada talks to me and when she talks about the past, it seems

like it goes back to a couple months after I was born.  She has said that I was

'oh so ugly' when I was born and told the doctor 'I don't want that one.  It's

not cute. "  But then after about 2 months, she said 'the ugly duckling' left and

the cute baby 'finally came out.'  From what she's said, people fawned over me

anytime they'd take me out and she was even approached before I could walk to be

in commercials...to which she, of course, said No.  

It may have something to do with me not looking Anything like her, complete

opposite.  Do u look like your father or someone else in the family?  I have

blonde hair, blue/green eyes, and fair skin to her Gorgeous thick dark brown

hair (which she bleaches blonde), big beautiful brown eyes, and such pretty

olive skin.  In fact, I've always wished I had her looks and have told her this,

but still nothing.  In fact, a few times she's said " yeah right " as if I don't

mean it, but I truly do!!!

Her jealousy probably grew in my teen years.  I got straight A's, was popular,

petite, and people liked me which was a lot different from her failing grades

(only bc she didn't do the work...didn't like being told what to do by Anyone),

was the class clown, and was overweight.  I've always worked extremely hard for

everything (smarts, health, weight, money) and she takes the easy route.  I've

been successful and she never did anything with her life except look for

handouts and sponge off others.  Monetarily speaking, I've far exceeded her.

 Here's the kicker though, 5.5 years ago when I lost everything (homes, cars, $,

savings, and the ability to work) she didn't help me with Anything and seemed to

be Pleased!   And, now that I have next to nothing, she's back to attacking my

looks and my mind telling me I'm simple, really forgetful, and making comments

about me aging and says " well at least now ur not perfect " .  

Ugh!  Goes with the territory, I guess.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I do think that the jealousy is a nada thing. I believe it falls under the

venue of if it's not all about them then they feel they must belittle or

otherwise tear it down. I got my dad's looks from the neck up except my eyebrows

which was a good thing, because my dad's are blonde and barely noticeable and

mine are a light to medium brown. My dad was a very handsome young man with a

baby face that got carded for alcohol all the way into his thirties, so I am

grateful to have his genes. He is also in his late seventies with only a

smattering of grey hair, which is also great. I am in my mid forties and still

don't have a single grey hair and no need for glasses. I know I am genetically

blessed. My mother was a cute young girl and was pretty in a non traditional way

but she always hated her hair and her nose...she inherited the Indian nose that

runs in her family and I admit her hair was difficult. Thanks to modern

chemistry, she has subdued it into a very light blonde that although is quite

pretty, does nothing for her complexion. It completely washes out her already

pale complexion and makes her look sickley. That is to say nothing of the fact

that she is wearing her hair half way down her back which is just way too long.

I was most disturbed when I found an old picture of me that I took to have put

in a brochure for my business and realized that nada has single white femaled

me. She has her hair almost EXACTLY as I had mine about eight or so years ago

and I swear, I think she saw my hair that way and liked it and took it as her

own. *shudder*

As to when my nada started being really jealous of me and acting differently,

defin. during puberty. she was always comparing us. I think she was always

pleased that I never had a very large chest. Nada was always perfectly

proportioned a size 4/6 with a 34C and just 5'5 " The first time she really got

jealous was when I started to date. She always flirted with my BFs and was, I

think, jealous of the opportunities of being young and single. She always wanted

to be very promiscuous and was only held back by society and the fear of being

judged. I swear she wanted to live vicariously thru my sex life, but at the same

time would shame me about it. Talk about your mixed messages!

C

[Guest guest]

OMG CmeBfree!!!  That stinks!!!  I'm so sorry u got a mom-nada like this,

too!!!  U brought up an interesting point that I never really thought about

until now.  My nada'd would go out of her way to tell me that 'ha ha, u got ur

father's chest, too! "  Though she was only a bit overweight in high school, her

chest was Huge!..disproportionate to her height/weight even.  Yet she would,

and still does, tease me about mine...despite the fact that it's normal for my

size.  And another weird thing I just thought of, she'd always take off her

shirt and bra in front of me.  Shudder!!!  I would always turn away or go into

another room.  She still does it, or tries to anyway and I'm like " Do u

mind?! " ...only some times will she stop.  I just leave!!  And...this is so

weird, and I never gave it any thought until just now, when I moved across the

country, she kept telling me 'don't u dare get a breast augmentation' and wanted

me to swear that I wouldn't.

 I never even talked about a breast augmentation, never even wanted one.  It

was something she came up with.

U said she'd flirt with ur bf's.  That's atrocious!!  Mine would sometimes

too, and she'd rate them and say outrageous things like 'he's hot. I'd do him.'

 Disgusting to the nth degree!!!  I never talked like that and wasn't even

having sex.  Then, I was about 16 and this kid liked me who was about 1 1/2

years younger than me.  He asked me out and I said no.  My nada always thought

he was cute.  His mom passed away 3 or so years later and who jumps in to help

him grieve...yep, my nada!!!  I've moved away by this time so I didn't 'see'

anything.  I find out a few years later that she and this 'kid' were dating and

that's also only 1 year after I threw out her cheating husband (who was 15

younger than her and only 10 older than me- she met Him when he was a senior in

high school)...but that's a whole of Oprah!! (story) lol!  So, she and 'the

kid' were together for something like 6 or so years.  She even has the nerve to

try talk to me about him

now (Gross!!) and says she wonders what he's doing.  Seriously!!??!!!  Where

do these BPD people come from?  And can they be returned?

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:00 PM

Subject: Re: BPD and Jealousy

 

Yes, I do think that the jealousy is a nada thing. I believe it falls under the

venue of if it's not all about them then they feel they must belittle or

otherwise tear it down. I got my dad's looks from the neck up except my eyebrows

which was a good thing, because my dad's are blonde and barely noticeable and

mine are a light to medium brown. My dad was a very handsome young man with a

baby face that got carded for alcohol all the way into his thirties, so I am

grateful to have his genes. He is also in his late seventies with only a

smattering of grey hair, which is also great. I am in my mid forties and still

don't have a single grey hair and no need for glasses. I know I am genetically

blessed. My mother was a cute young girl and was pretty in a non traditional way

but she always hated her hair and her nose...she inherited the Indian nose that

runs in her family and I admit her hair was difficult. Thanks to modern

chemistry, she has subdued it into a

very light blonde that although is quite pretty, does nothing for her

complexion. It completely washes out her already pale complexion and makes her

look sickley. That is to say nothing of the fact that she is wearing her hair

half way down her back which is just way too long. I was most disturbed when I

found an old picture of me that I took to have put in a brochure for my business

and realized that nada has single white femaled me. She has her hair almost

EXACTLY as I had mine about eight or so years ago and I swear, I think she saw

my hair that way and liked it and took it as her own. *shudder*

As to when my nada started being really jealous of me and acting differently,

defin. during puberty. she was always comparing us. I think she was always

pleased that I never had a very large chest. Nada was always perfectly

proportioned a size 4/6 with a 34C and just 5'5 " The first time she really got

jealous was when I started to date. She always flirted with my BFs and was, I

think, jealous of the opportunities of being young and single. She always wanted

to be very promiscuous and was only held back by society and the fear of being

judged. I swear she wanted to live vicariously thru my sex life, but at the same

time would shame me about it. Talk about your mixed messages!

C

[Guest guest]

Dear Myreality,

What you wrote speaks so much to me !

It was quite similar for me. I could divide nada's behaviour into two different

parts.

When I was little, she was a Queen, according to the book of Ann

LAWSON " Understanding the Borderline Mother " .

She was the center of the attention all the time. She was a very beautiful young

woman, and she was making sure that I won't kept too much the attention, by

cutting my hair short and making me wear old uggly clothes.

But when I grew up and refused to have my hair cut and weared nicer girl clothes

given to me by my Grand-Mother's friends, and because I was a so kind child, the

attention became quite on me and she couldn't bear it. I was always the first at

school and very talentuous in many areas, sewing, cooking, drawing, she was

making her best to diminish me or ridiculize me in front of people. She became a

Witch, and when I have been an adult, a beautiful young woman, she became more

and more jealous and evil with me. The frontier from beeing a Queen to becoming

a Witch for my nada was about when I was twelve of thirteen years old.

I also agree with what you wrote about the total lack of nada of having any kind

of sense of decency. I was sleeping in her bedroom and seeing her naked every

evening. It was really making me feeling ill-at-ease. I have always been myself

so much decent, even when I was two years old I was hiding my body.

She saw me naked only one time when I was an adult, it was a particular

circumstance because I was ill and she was helping me taking a shower. She

looked at me with a disgusted expression and told me with a cold evil voice : "

Well, you're bloody well shapped ! " (according to my dictionnary what she told

exactely was " you're a nice bit of ass " ). I didn't like her rudeness and I felt

hurted that the fact I was beautiful was making her angry. I thought a normal

Mum should have been happy to have a beautiful daughter.

When I was twelve she had a boy-friend who had a son, they decided that we will

go on holidays together with a caravan (or trailer in my dictionary ?).

They always went to sleep so early, like the hens. We were all sleeping in the

caravan, they had the double bed, his son slept on the bench, and I was sleeping

on the floor.

They were doing it every night, the little boy was sleeping but I was not. It

was like a earthquake I had to bear every evening, it was a nightmare. I was

there an unwilling spectator and just couldn't escape to it. I absolutely hated

these holidays.

One day, I was preparing the meal with him, and he brought a very big dry pork

sausage. I couldn't help myself, I told him : " Save it for Mum, she will just

love it ! "

I was always respectful and obedient to her, I was never insolent with her, I

would have never dared to be a rebell child, but this time I couldn't help

myself and told this, because I was so angry inside.

Today when I remember this event, it still makes me smile :-)

She was also very jealous of the love my Grand-Mother (her mother) had towards

me. She made her best all her life to separate us. She managed very well during

the six last years, she put my Loving Grand-Ma (who in my heart has always been

my true Mummy) in an old people home far awy from the town where I live, with

not any transport accomodation for me to go there (I don't have my driving

licence, and to this town where the old people home was, there was no bus nor

train to reach it). I asked her many times to drive me there, but she always

refused, except two times two years ago, when my Grand-Mother was dying. She did

it only to appear the good mother towards me in front of our family who were

there too. The last time, she followed me alone and she told me on the parking

with a cold evil voice : " Well, you won't be able to tell anyone that I didn't

drive you there to see her ! "

After my Grand-Mother was dead, she dealt with all her belongings and empeach me

to go there in her last house to take some things of my Grand-Ma I loved as a

souvenir of her.

There are many many other things she did against me by her evil jealousy, but it

would be too long to write. I think you've got the picture.

I never uderstood why my mother is Borderline, while my Grand-Ma was a so kind

Mummy.

But I have heard things about my great-Grand-Mother I never knew, and according

to the things I heard about her, I think she was a Witch Borderline too.

Take very good care of yourself.

Natacha

________________________________

De : myreality67 myreality67@...>

À : WTOAdultChildren1

Envoyé le : Vendredi 29 juin 2012 1h15

Objet : BPD and Jealousy

 

I have been able to see my NADA had jealousy directed at me with the help of a

therapist. I can clearly see before age 13, she had her moments but after I

turned 13 they became more frequent and more volatile. I have memories where

returning home from a social function my NADA would become vicious towards me.

I know her NADA did this to her as well. If someone gave me a compliment and my

NADA could not take credit or have the compliment geared towards herself, she

would chastise me later when it was just the two of us. Someone gave me a

compliment and my Nada's nada told them they were incorrect that I didn't

deserve the compliment as I had (Fill in the blank).

Since my NADA had experienced trauma between ages 12 and 13, I thought my

reaching that age triggered her suppressed/ repressed memories. I was shocked

to realize some of her issues were also jealousy that she felt I was taking too

much attention from her.

Over the past year, I have come to realize that I don't recognize jealousy and

this has caused problems for me professionally and personally. The shocker for

my friends is that I am pretty good about perceiving other's emotions. If

emotions were Crayolas I have the 96 pack with the sharpener. A survival trait

developed from having to gauge my NADA's moods. I especially get the wrath of

people who like to take credit for everything and will sabotage someone if they

cannot receive top billing. I attract them. Having grown up with one, I seem

to be comfortable in my discomfort around them. I am working on this.

It has been painful to realize my own NADA has been jealous of me and at times

lashes out because of that jealousy. That her feelings of jealousy outweighed

her feelings of love for me. She also has my sympathy and empathy as her own

nada was especially cruel to her due to jealousy. I guess I should not be

shocked when most fairytales have this as an underlying theme.

For any of you, did you notice a time when your NADA/FADA's behavior changed?

Has anyone else felt / realized that their own parents were jealous of them?

[Guest guest]

Elahna- I think my nada was happy that I seemed to have gotten a smaller chest

that ran on my dads side of the family too, and your nada wanted your promise

that you wouldn't get a breast augmentation because she felt that was the one

area that she had you beat. As to her preference for younger men/boys, that is

truly disturbing. She just blatently took advantage of your friend that lost his

mother. That is just gross. If your friend was still underage when that started,

she is lucky that his father didn't bring charges against her. If anyone did

anything like that to my son, you can be certain that I would have their

perverted ass thrown in jail. That is just predatory behavior. As to her trying

to discuss this with you, ugh! I know there is a common thread of BPD's trying

to engage their children in " knowing " about their bad behavior, because if they

can get you to listen to them about it then they didn't do anything wrong or

they transfer some of the guilt of bad behavior to you. LIke a cheating spouse

that introduces her child(ren) to her lover and makes them part of the dirty

secret.

I would like to know where this BPD comes from too and send it back as well!

>

> OMG CmeBfree!!!  That stinks!!!  I'm so sorry u got a mom-nada like this,

too!!!  U brought up an interesting point that I never really thought about

until now.  My nada'd would go out of her way to tell me that 'ha ha, u got ur

father's chest, too! "  Though she was only a bit overweight in high school, her

chest was Huge!..disproportionate to her height/weight even.  Yet she would,

and still does, tease me about mine...despite the fact that it's normal for my

size.  And another weird thing I just thought of, she'd always take off her

shirt and bra in front of me.  Shudder!!!  I would always turn away or go into

another room.  She still does it, or tries to anyway and I'm like " Do u

mind?! " ...only some times will she stop.  I just leave!!  And...this is so

weird, and I never gave it any thought until just now, when I moved across the

country, she kept telling me 'don't u dare get a breast augmentation' and wanted

me to swear that I wouldn't.

>  I never even talked about a breast augmentation, never even wanted one.

 It was something she came up with.

>

> U said she'd flirt with ur bf's.  That's atrocious!!  Mine would sometimes

too, and she'd rate them and say outrageous things like 'he's hot. I'd do him.'

 Disgusting to the nth degree!!!  I never talked like that and wasn't even

having sex.  Then, I was about 16 and this kid liked me who was about 1 1/2

years younger than me.  He asked me out and I said no.  My nada always thought

he was cute.  His mom passed away 3 or so years later and who jumps in to help

him grieve...yep, my nada!!!  I've moved away by this time so I didn't 'see'

anything.  I find out a few years later that she and this 'kid' were dating and

that's also only 1 year after I threw out her cheating husband (who was 15

younger than her and only 10 older than me- she met Him when he was a senior in

high school)...but that's a whole of Oprah!! (story) lol!  So, she and 'the

kid' were together for something like 6 or so years.  She even has the nerve to

try talk to me about him

> now (Gross!!) and says she wonders what he's doing.  Seriously!!??!!!

 Where do these BPD people come from?  And can they be returned?

[Guest guest]

Yes, similar here as well. Jealous...of everything it seems. Now that I think

about it, when I was little, she used to carry around wallet sized pictures of

me and HERSELF at the same age, so when people complimented me, she could whip

out a picture of herself as a child and say that my looks came from her (of

course they don't, I look like my father).

The jealousy thing got ridiculous throughout the years. For example, I bought a

new house. I knew she would be jealous, so I didn't tell her about the house, I

told her instead about a new washer and dryer I was planning to buy. I told her

I wanted to get a top of the line model. Well, how did she react to an appliance

purchase? She had a meltdown, and yelled at me, " NO, you don't need that...I

NEVER had something like that! "

Pretty telling huh?

As far as the sense of decency, or rather the lack thereof, I can't count the

times I overheard my nada having sex. It was disgusting. I won't get graphic,

but when I told my DH about it, he turned pale. All I can say is she really

acted like a total whore.

I always feel like I have to pinch myself because I can't believe I made it out

of childhood alive.

>

> Dear Myreality,

>

>

> What you wrote speaks so much to me !

>

> It was quite similar for me. I could divide nada's behaviour into two

different parts.

> When I was little, she was a Queen, according to the book of Ann

LAWSON " Understanding the Borderline Mother " .

> She was the center of the attention all the time. She was a very beautiful

young woman, and she was making sure that I won't kept too much the attention,

by cutting my hair short and making me wear old uggly clothes.

> But when I grew up and refused to have my hair cut and weared nicer girl

clothes given to me by my Grand-Mother's friends, and because I was a so kind

child, the attention became quite on me and she couldn't bear it. I was always

the first at school and very talentuous in many areas, sewing, cooking, drawing,

she was making her best to diminish me or ridiculize me in front of people. She

became a Witch, and when I have been an adult, a beautiful young woman, she

became more and more jealous and evil with me. The frontier from beeing a Queen

to becoming a Witch for my nada was about when I was twelve of thirteen years

old.

>

> I also agree with what you wrote about the total lack of nada of having any

kind of sense of decency. I was sleeping in her bedroom and seeing her naked

every evening. It was really making me feeling ill-at-ease. I have always been

myself so much decent, even when I was two years old I was hiding my body.

>

> She saw me naked only one time when I was an adult, it was a particular

circumstance because I was ill and she was helping me taking a shower. She

looked at me with a disgusted expression and told me with a cold evil voice : "

Well, you're bloody well shapped ! " (according to my dictionnary what she told

exactely was " you're a nice bit of ass " ). I didn't like her rudeness and I felt

hurted that the fact I was beautiful was making her angry. I thought a normal

Mum should have been happy to have a beautiful daughter.

>

> When I was twelve she had a boy-friend who had a son, they decided that we

will go on holidays together with a caravan (or trailer in my dictionary ?).

> They always went to sleep so early, like the hens. We were all sleeping in the

caravan, they had the double bed, his son slept on the bench, and I was sleeping

on the floor.

> They were doing it every night, the little boy was sleeping but I was not. It

was like a earthquake I had to bear every evening, it was a nightmare. I was

there an unwilling spectator and just couldn't escape to it. I absolutely hated

these holidays.

> One day, I was preparing the meal with him, and he brought a very big dry pork

sausage. I couldn't help myself, I told him : " Save it for Mum, she will just

love it ! "

> I was always respectful and obedient to her, I was never insolent with her, I

would have never dared to be a rebell child, but this time I couldn't help

myself and told this, because I was so angry inside.

> Today when I remember this event, it still makes me smile :-)

>

> She was also very jealous of the love my Grand-Mother (her mother) had towards

me. She made her best all her life to separate us. She managed very well during

the six last years, she put my Loving Grand-Ma (who in my heart has always been

my true Mummy) in an old people home far awy from the town where I live, with

not any transport accomodation for me to go there (I don't have my driving

licence, and to this town where the old people home was, there was no bus nor

train to reach it). I asked her many times to drive me there, but she always

refused, except two times two years ago, when my Grand-Mother was dying. She did

it only to appear the good mother towards me in front of our family who were

there too. The last time, she followed me alone and she told me on the parking

with a cold evil voice : " Well, you won't be able to tell anyone that I didn't

drive you there to see her ! "

>

>

>

> After my Grand-Mother was dead, she dealt with all her belongings and empeach

me to go there in her last house to take some things of my Grand-Ma I loved as a

souvenir of her.

> There are many many other things she did against me by her evil jealousy, but

it would be too long to write. I think you've got the picture.

> I never uderstood why my mother is Borderline, while my Grand-Ma was a so kind

Mummy.

> But I have heard things about my great-Grand-Mother I never knew, and

according to the things I heard about her, I think she was a Witch Borderline

too.

>

> Take very good care of yourself.

>

> Natacha

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> De : myreality67

> À : WTOAdultChildren1

> Envoyé le : Vendredi 29 juin 2012 1h15

> Objet : BPD and Jealousy

>

>

>  

> I have been able to see my NADA had jealousy directed at me with the help of a

therapist. I can clearly see before age 13, she had her moments but after I

turned 13 they became more frequent and more volatile. I have memories where

returning home from a social function my NADA would become vicious towards me.

>

> I know her NADA did this to her as well. If someone gave me a compliment and

my NADA could not take credit or have the compliment geared towards herself, she

would chastise me later when it was just the two of us. Someone gave me a

compliment and my Nada's nada told them they were incorrect that I didn't

deserve the compliment as I had (Fill in the blank).

>

> Since my NADA had experienced trauma between ages 12 and 13, I thought my

reaching that age triggered her suppressed/ repressed memories. I was shocked

to realize some of her issues were also jealousy that she felt I was taking too

much attention from her.

>

> Over the past year, I have come to realize that I don't recognize jealousy and

this has caused problems for me professionally and personally. The shocker for

my friends is that I am pretty good about perceiving other's emotions. If

emotions were Crayolas I have the 96 pack with the sharpener. A survival trait

developed from having to gauge my NADA's moods. I especially get the wrath of

people who like to take credit for everything and will sabotage someone if they

cannot receive top billing. I attract them. Having grown up with one, I seem

to be comfortable in my discomfort around them. I am working on this.

>

> It has been painful to realize my own NADA has been jealous of me and at times

lashes out because of that jealousy. That her feelings of jealousy outweighed

her feelings of love for me. She also has my sympathy and empathy as her own

nada was especially cruel to her due to jealousy. I guess I should not be

shocked when most fairytales have this as an underlying theme.

>

> For any of you, did you notice a time when your NADA/FADA's behavior changed?

Has anyone else felt / realized that their own parents were jealous of them?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is an excerpt from a synopsis of " The Witch " chapter of Understanding The

Borderline Mother, that I found at another site:

In " Understanding The Borderline Mother " author Lawson purports that

the darkness within " The Witch " subtype of BPD Mother is annihilating rage. The

Witch can hide in any of the three other profiles (Waif, Hermit, Queen) as a

temporary ego-state.

The Witch is filled with self-hatred which she may project onto just one of her

children, whom she designates as the all-bad, scapegoat child.

The Witch's emotional message to her children is: Life is war (and you are the

enemy.)

She is not deterred by guilt because she feels justified in her actions. The

Witch is often deceiving in appearance and manner, she can appear nice and

kindly when it suits her purpose.

The Witch may exhibit antisocial behavior such as habitual lying,

exploitative-ness, sexual promiscuity, and physical, sexual, or verbal abuse –

she can be cold, snobbish, self-righteous, withholding Witch. She sets her

children up to be trapped and deceived.

She may trick her children to tell her what they want and then deliberately

withhold those very things. She may force her children into embarrassing and

humiliating situations and then ridicule them. She may betray their

confidences, share their secrets, and exploit their fears. She is calculatingly

cruel and believes her behavior is justified. Children who resist her face

further punishment. Often simply her tone of voice conveys her sinister intent.

Attacks by the Witch Mother are unexpected and unpredictable resulting in

massive insecurity in the child.

Children are on constant alert for the " Turn " . The sudden, unexpected attack

with hateful words that tear the soul like: " You're worthless, " " I wish you

were dead. " " I never should have had you. " Children of predatory mothers learn

to look for signs of the Turn (tone of voice, body language, facial expression)

and respond by shutting down, hiding, getting away, avoiding eye contact, and

retreating. During episodes of attack children are often emotionally discarded,

disowned, and verbally dehumanized (called the kid, it, the girl, the boy). The

Witch attacks her child one minute then later behaves as if nothing happened.

Her memory is erased. (My nada was like that, but with extreme rage and

physical violence added into the mix as well. She was scary as hell.)

The Witch's inner experience is one of self-loathing and the conviction of being

evil. The Witch Mother has an uncanny ability to detect vulnerability in others

and then attacks knowing just how to hurt and scare her children. She is

bitter, demanding, sarcastic, and cruel to her targets. She may make statements

like, " I'll kill you, " " I'll make your life hell, " " I will destroy you. " She

has no interest in therapy or being helped – she doesn't have a problem, you do.

She wants revenge. Her greatest fear is losing control. No one should

underestimate the vindictiveness of the Witch.

Characteristics of the Witch Mother include:

* Is sadistically controlling and punitive with her children – She needs

complete control over her children and possibly also her spouse. Her behavior

evokes submission and fear. Her children are forced to submit to her control

and may be victims of sadistic emotional, physical, or sexual abuse. She tells

her victims the abuses they have suffered are " for their own good " .

* Possesses annihilatory rage – Rage that is so intense that the person who is

the target of her rage is momentarily unrecognizable as the person who is the

target of her rage often leaving a feeling in the victim of being " blown away " .

* Organizes a campaign of denigration – The Witch enlists others as allies

against the person who is the target of her rage. She may seek out friends,

family members (including siblings and children), and co-workers of her victim

in whom to confide fabricated stories designed to discredit her enemy. She

intentionally leaves out discussion of her own behavior, presenting the other

person's behavior as entirely unjustified. Others may believe the Witch's

allegations of mistreatment because of the intensity of her emotion.

Misinformation is calculated and constructed in order to destroy the victim's

reputation.

* Stirs up conflict and controversy in groups - The Witch uses a

divide-and-conquer strategy in an attempt to control others by splitting groups

into factions in an attempt to turn one against the other. This destructive

dynamic can have devastating consequences on families where family members are

estranged or blacklisted for years.

* Hostility masks her fear – The Witch is terrified of vulnerability, of

trusting, of not having control, of being helpless, of being hurt. The Witch

Mother's hostility is an attempt to discredit those with power. Portraying the

enemy as weak, incompetent, or worthless reduces the threat to her. Thus, she

is pleased when others feel diminished, vulnerable, and powerless. The witch's

children sense her pleasure (sadistic enjoyment) at their expense.

* Is intrusive, domineering, and violates the boundaries of others – Witch

Mother's may violate every aspect of her child including being sexually abusive,

sexually degrading, subjecting them to unnecessary medical procedures,

humiliating them in public. She does not recognize boundaries and exploits her

child's trust. Children learn to hide their feelings and everything they love

in order to survive.

* Destroys valued objects or is intentionally withholding – Favorite toys are

broken or given away as punishment, pets disappear, medical treatment may be

withheld.

* Possesses the conviction of being evil – Some BPD Witches may feel, look, and

act like they're possessed.

* Has a fear of entrapment – The Witch will not tolerate being controlled by

others!

* Has a poor prognosis for treatment – Witches may never relinquish control and

thus will always remain a Witch.

Messages from the Witch:

-I could kill you

-You'll be sorry

-You won't get away with this

-You deserve to suffer

-I'd be better off without you

-You'll never escape my control

-It's my right as your parent to control you

-I'm going to make you pay

**********************************************

Its eerie that this sub-type of bpd mother is such an embodiment of a fairy-tale

villainess: the Evil Queen or Wicked Stepmother who wants to kill her own child

or step-daughter out of pure jealousy.

-Annie

> Yes, similar here as well. Jealous...of everything it seems. Now that I think

about it, when I was little, she used to carry around wallet sized pictures of

me and HERSELF at the same age, so when people complimented me, she could whip

out a picture of herself as a child and say that my looks came from her (of

course they don't, I look like my father).

>

> The jealousy thing got ridiculous throughout the years. For example, I bought

a new house. I knew she would be jealous, so I didn't tell her about the house,

I told her instead about a new washer and dryer I was planning to buy. I told

her I wanted to get a top of the line model. Well, how did she react to an

appliance purchase? She had a meltdown, and yelled at me, " NO, you don't need

that...I NEVER had something like that! "

>

> Pretty telling huh?

>

> As far as the sense of decency, or rather the lack thereof, I can't count the

times I overheard my nada having sex. It was disgusting. I won't get graphic,

but when I told my DH about it, he turned pale. All I can say is she really

acted like a total whore.

>

> I always feel like I have to pinch myself because I can't believe I made it

out of childhood alive.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Annie,

Thank you for your list !

I read UMB last year, but it was a good reminder, I had quite forgotten the

description, and rereading it reminds me so many events in my life !

I am convinced that my nada is a witch. She is a two faces woman, all smily and

looking vulnerable in the family circle, absolutely cold with icy evil voice and

black eyes with me. 

She spent her entire life to do her best to direct me, often using blackmail.

The worst she did to me : When I ran away from my first son's dad who was

beating me, I lived at nada's home for two weeks with my six months baby, then

one day she simply asked me to leave. I had no home, so I lived with my baby in

a Red Cross center for bitten women. My nada came to see me there few times, and

one day I had the naivety to tell in front of her, that I would like to go back

to live with my Grand-Mother (my true Mummy in my heart, who lived in a double

house and half was empty). I remember so well I saw an evil light in nada's

eyes, but she said nothing and then left.

Few months later, I had the bad surprise to learn, that my nada had sent my

Grand-Ma to a social home and had sold our 50 years old family house. There was

my childhood bedroom. She emptied it, stole a part of my things, and burned what

she didn't steal in the garden. I could never take back my things and say

goodbye to my family house. And she knew how important my childhood things were

for me, she knew I had reported my affection on my toys and collections of

postcards to compensate the lack of maternal love, I was so much attached to my

material belongings !

I have gone NC for now one year, but there are still many things of mine in my

nada's house. Even when we had contact, she would take my children to her home

but not me. I am not welcome in her house since 1999 ! Excately the same year

that she sold our family house ! (I suppose she fear that I would ask my things

back. My younger son saw there my favourite sculpted antic wooden chair with

blue velvet in HER bedroom, my favourite canari cage in her loundge, and many

other things of mine ....)

I had the deep sorrow that when I had to go living in the Red Cross Center,

animals were not allowed, I had to let at my nada's my two beloved canaris. The

first one died quickly at nada's home, she told me, the second one stayed, he

was my favourite, his name was Kicsike. When he was with me inParis, he used to

fly on my shoulder and to kiss me on my nose. He was an absolute cuty. 

When I moved to an independant flat after the Red Cross center, I asked  nada

many times to give my Kicsike back to me, but she refused always, and one day

she called me to tell me that he was dead :-(

I know it sounds awfull, but I suspect her to have deliberetely killed my

beloved pet :-( He was young and shouldn't have died that quickly. I learned

that she was not taking care of him, putting him in her garage with no light and

wind everywhere.

Of course she has told lies about me during years to all my family members, and

none of them would contact me for years, while I love them all so much and have

always been very kind with each of them.

I have understood recently that while she looks outside weak, in reality she is

the true and only leader of all my French family, she just direct all of them

and they don't even pay notice. They believe all her lies (no idea what she

could have said against me).

When I was sixteen years old, she offered to me to drive me to the gynecologist,

to prescribe to me the pill. I told her that I was not at all interested in that

kind of things, I was a very good student at school, I was very serious and

wanted to learn in university during many years. Then she insisted, and finished

her sentence by telling me with a very dried, icy, evil voice : " Because I

didn't had this chance !!!! (she ment the chance to take the pill = to avoid

having me in her womb) It really killed me inside to hear that ! I am her only

child !

From my baby time anyway, I always have had the certitude inside me, that I was

not welcome for her, that I would have been better dead....

I hope I don't ennoy anyone with my stories, I write here because here is the

only place I know where I could after fourty years dare to tell without beeing

in fear that noone will believe me.

I so often thought that my life was like snow white, and my mother was the witch

jealous queen !

Have a Beautiful Weekend Annie, thank you for sharing :-)

Take very good care of yourself.

Natacha

I wrote this poem yesterday evening :(I hope the text won't be cut like last

time. I have put / to show the end of each verse.) I am so sorry that there is

so little rimes in english. 

God bless you all !

I

don't know to stand up for myself

I

don't know to stand up for myself, after-effects of my tenders years/

Constant

weakness in me, which I could not erase/

Real

handicap, that I should face/

In

my today's life, because it has settled inside/

I

don't know to say « no », even when I don't want/

I

fear that saying it, people stop loving me/

I

feel like a prisonner of this docile life/

Always

at the mercy of a clever predator/

Because

she empeached me to learn to defend myself/

It

was her strategy to better hit me/

Always

taking the side of the people agressing me/

Then

showing to me how little I was important for her/

Denying

my feelings, keeping me under her control/

Humiliating

me at her pleasure to better anihilate me/

She

was always triumphating against me, so passive/

Not

protecting me, thinking then she will finally love me/

I

remember with sorrow her black eyes so shinny/

From

pure evilness, sadic contentment/

Savouring

her victory to have humiliated me/

Little

half smile, hardly dissimulated./

Natacha

DASZKEL

Le

30 Juin 2012.

________________________________

De : anuria67854 anuria-67854@...>

À : WTOAdultChildren1

Envoyé le : Samedi 30 juin 2012 23h24

Objet : Re: BPD and Jealousy

 

Here is an excerpt from a synopsis of " The Witch " chapter of Understanding The

Borderline Mother, that I found at another site:

In " Understanding The Borderline Mother " author Lawson purports that

the darkness within " The Witch " subtype of BPD Mother is annihilating rage. The

Witch can hide in any of the three other profiles (Waif, Hermit, Queen) as a

temporary ego-state.

The Witch is filled with self-hatred which she may project onto just one of her

children, whom she designates as the all-bad, scapegoat child.

The Witch's emotional message to her children is: Life is war (and you are the

enemy.)

She is not deterred by guilt because she feels justified in her actions. The

Witch is often deceiving in appearance and manner, she can appear nice and

kindly when it suits her purpose.

The Witch may exhibit antisocial behavior such as habitual lying,

exploitative-ness, sexual promiscuity, and physical, sexual, or verbal abuse –

she can be cold, snobbish, self-righteous, withholding Witch. She sets her

children up to be trapped and deceived.

She may trick her children to tell her what they want and then deliberately

withhold those very things. She may force her children into embarrassing and

humiliating situations and then ridicule them. She may betray their

confidences, share their secrets, and exploit their fears. She is calculatingly

cruel and believes her behavior is justified. Children who resist her face

further punishment. Often simply her tone of voice conveys her sinister intent.

Attacks by the Witch Mother are unexpected and unpredictable resulting in

massive insecurity in the child.

Children are on constant alert for the " Turn " . The sudden, unexpected attack

with hateful words that tear the soul like: " You're worthless, " " I wish you

were dead. " " I never should have had you. " Children of predatory mothers learn

to look for signs of the Turn (tone of voice, body language, facial expression)

and respond by shutting down, hiding, getting away, avoiding eye contact, and

retreating. During episodes of attack children are often emotionally discarded,

disowned, and verbally dehumanized (called the kid, it, the girl, the boy). The

Witch attacks her child one minute then later behaves as if nothing happened.

Her memory is erased. (My nada was like that, but with extreme rage and

physical violence added into the mix as well. She was scary as hell.)

The Witch's inner experience is one of self-loathing and the conviction of being

evil. The Witch Mother has an uncanny ability to detect vulnerability in others

and then attacks knowing just how to hurt and scare her children. She is

bitter, demanding, sarcastic, and cruel to her targets. She may make statements

like, " I'll kill you, " " I'll make your life hell, " " I will destroy you. " She

has no interest in therapy or being helped – she doesn't have a problem, you

do. She wants revenge. Her greatest fear is losing control. No one should

underestimate the vindictiveness of the Witch.

Characteristics of the Witch Mother include:

* Is sadistically controlling and punitive with her children – She needs

complete control over her children and possibly also her spouse. Her behavior

evokes submission and fear. Her children are forced to submit to her control

and may be victims of sadistic emotional, physical, or sexual abuse. She tells

her victims the abuses they have suffered are " for their own good " .

* Possesses annihilatory rage – Rage that is so intense that the person who is

the target of her rage is momentarily unrecognizable as the person who is the

target of her rage often leaving a feeling in the victim of being " blown away " .

* Organizes a campaign of denigration – The Witch enlists others as allies

against the person who is the target of her rage. She may seek out friends,

family members (including siblings and children), and co-workers of her victim

in whom to confide fabricated stories designed to discredit her enemy. She

intentionally leaves out discussion of her own behavior, presenting the other

person's behavior as entirely unjustified. Others may believe the Witch's

allegations of mistreatment because of the intensity of her emotion.

Misinformation is calculated and constructed in order to destroy the victim's

reputation.

* Stirs up conflict and controversy in groups - The Witch uses a

divide-and-conquer strategy in an attempt to control others by splitting groups

into factions in an attempt to turn one against the other. This destructive

dynamic can have devastating consequences on families where family members are

estranged or blacklisted for years.

* Hostility masks her fear – The Witch is terrified of vulnerability, of

trusting, of not having control, of being helpless, of being hurt. The Witch

Mother's hostility is an attempt to discredit those with power. Portraying the

enemy as weak, incompetent, or worthless reduces the threat to her. Thus, she

is pleased when others feel diminished, vulnerable, and powerless. The witch's

children sense her pleasure (sadistic enjoyment) at their expense.

* Is intrusive, domineering, and violates the boundaries of others – Witch

Mother's may violate every aspect of her child including being sexually abusive,

sexually degrading, subjecting them to unnecessary medical procedures,

humiliating them in public. She does not recognize boundaries and exploits her

child's trust. Children learn to hide their feelings and everything they love

in order to survive.

* Destroys valued objects or is intentionally withholding – Favorite toys are

broken or given away as punishment, pets disappear, medical treatment may be

withheld.

* Possesses the conviction of being evil – Some BPD Witches may feel, look,

and act like they're possessed.

* Has a fear of entrapment – The Witch will not tolerate being controlled by

others!

* Has a poor prognosis for treatment – Witches may never relinquish control

and thus will always remain a Witch.

Messages from the Witch:

-I could kill you

-You'll be sorry

-You won't get away with this

-You deserve to suffer

-I'd be better off without you

-You'll never escape my control

-It's my right as your parent to control you

-I'm going to make you pay

**********************************************

Its eerie that this sub-type of bpd mother is such an embodiment of a fairy-tale

villainess: the Evil Queen or Wicked Stepmother who wants to kill her own child

or step-daughter out of pure jealousy.

-Annie

> Yes, similar here as well. Jealous...of everything it seems. Now that I think

about it, when I was little, she used to carry around wallet sized pictures of

me and HERSELF at the same age, so when people complimented me, she could whip

out a picture of herself as a child and say that my looks came from her (of

course they don't, I look like my father).

>

> The jealousy thing got ridiculous throughout the years. For example, I bought

a new house. I knew she would be jealous, so I didn't tell her about the house,

I told her instead about a new washer and dryer I was planning to buy. I told

her I wanted to get a top of the line model. Well, how did she react to an

appliance purchase? She had a meltdown, and yelled at me, " NO, you don't need

that...I NEVER had something like that! "

>

> Pretty telling huh?

>

> As far as the sense of decency, or rather the lack thereof, I can't count the

times I overheard my nada having sex. It was disgusting. I won't get graphic,

but when I told my DH about it, he turned pale. All I can say is she really

acted like a total whore.

>

> I always feel like I have to pinch myself because I can't believe I made it

out of childhood alive.

>

[Guest guest]

Natacha, your post was so very sad. I know that my nada has a little witch in

her, but she is mostly a queen. My nada tries to fill the emptiness in her with

things. I think the most true thing she ever told me was that all of her little

figures and china and dolls etcetera helped her keep from thinking bad things.

That when bad thoughts come through her mind she will focus on one of her

collectables and recall where she was when she got it and who was with her. I

guess it is the only way she has come up with to self soothe.

Never feel like you are annoying any one by telling your truth here. That is

what this place is for. It is a safe place to tell your truth and have others

validate you.

C

[Guest guest]

Dear C,

Thank you for your kind letter.

Somehow it sounds strange to me to read that what I wrote was so sad, because

during all my life my mother told me again and again that everything was normal

and that if I dare to tell " bad things about her " outside, I was a bad daughter.

So I have been used to think that I was doing a big drama about quite nothing

and that the way I was treated was just normal. 

Then in my adult life I have been attracted nearly everytime to bad partners who

didn't really loved me and didn't respect me and two of them were also violents,

each time I was pregnant I was so bad treated by the man I was with, and well I

was just thinking that somehow I desserved to be treated like that. I have left

them and today I live alone for many years, I am too scared to try again with a

man.

The fact is that about my nada there was no physical violence and no screams

from her, always only her evil icy cold dictatorial voice. Today I think that I

would have liked her to scream sometimes, then things would have become more

alive.

I was clean in my physical appearance, I was good at school, I had no blue on my

body, there was no details from outside which could make anyone think ever of

ill-treating about me. And most of all I was thinking too that I had a normal

child life. That the way my mother was treating me was normal. My Grand-Mother

was always telling to me like a mantra : " Your mother is doing all what she could

for you ! Your mother loves you ! " I don't think nada ever told me that she

loved me. I try to remember her cuddling me and I remember only one time, I

think I was five and she cuddle me a little in an armchair.

I feel very guilty to write all this. I feel like I am betraying her. Like I am

such an awfull daughter daring to say naughty things about her mother. 

I have written about 130 poems since the beginning of May and most of them are

about the topic of how it was for me to be a child of a borderline. I am so

surprised about all the staff I am discovering daily. I have forgotten many

things and they are waking up. I think it is a healing process, because while I

have written about something, it is less harming me inside.

The most painfull was last week when I had to feel again how I felt during my

six first weeks of life. I had no dad, because she had left him just after my

birth and ran away back to her parents'home. She was not even looking at me ! I

have a picture I am six weeks on. This picture is very painfull but I love it

because it is a proof about how she was really with me.

I have written a poem about what this baby was feeling inside.

This is the translation in English :

________________________________

De : CmeBfree cspace67@...>

À : WTOAdultChildren1

Envoyé le : Dimanche 1 juillet 2012 4h31

Objet : Re: BPD and Jealousy

 

Natacha, your post was so very sad. I know that my nada has a little witch in

her, but she is mostly a queen. My nada tries to fill the emptiness in her with

things. I think the most true thing she ever told me was that all of her little

figures and china and dolls etcetera helped her keep from thinking bad things.

That when bad thoughts come through her mind she will focus on one of her

collectables and recall where she was when she got it and who was with her. I

guess it is the only way she has come up with to self soothe.

Never feel like you are annoying any one by telling your truth here. That is

what this place is for. It is a safe place to tell your truth and have others

validate you.

C

[Guest guest]

Dear C,

My e-mail was not finished and I pressed the " send " button by mistake. 

I wanted to finish it later because I have to deal with my children now.

I understand what you say about your Mum. I think some of the nadas obviously

are in sufferings of their own past and somehow they are not all bads.

For my nada, I really can't forgive her and have an understanding look at her,

because she has been heartless with me from the very beginning of my life.

Recently a woman told me, that certainly my nada suffered in her childhood,

that's why she was so evil with me. I think it is wrong to excuse someone's

evilness by a painfull past. I think you can always chose to be kind. I think

the fact someone has suffered as a child is never an excuse to be evil with a

child.

I will send my poem later I have to go for now. 

Take very good care of yourself.

Natacha

________________________________

De : CmeBfree cspace67@...>

À : WTOAdultChildren1

Envoyé le : Dimanche 1 juillet 2012 4h31

Objet : Re: BPD and Jealousy

 

Natacha, your post was so very sad. I know that my nada has a little witch in

her, but she is mostly a queen. My nada tries to fill the emptiness in her with

things. I think the most true thing she ever told me was that all of her little

figures and china and dolls etcetera helped her keep from thinking bad things.

That when bad thoughts come through her mind she will focus on one of her

collectables and recall where she was when she got it and who was with her. I

guess it is the only way she has come up with to self soothe.

Never feel like you are annoying any one by telling your truth here. That is

what this place is for. It is a safe place to tell your truth and have others

validate you.

C

[Guest guest]

Hi Natacha,

Abuse is abuse; cold, rejecting behavior from a parent is just as damaging as

screaming, violent behavior. Those kinds of abuse are just as wrong and

damaging as being " parentified " by a parent, or being " spousified " /sexually

exploited by a parent.

ALL these types of abuse are deep betrayals of the very purpose of parenting,

which is to nurture, guide and protect.

Any kind of frequent, intense, ongoing abuse does the opposite of nurturing the

child: it warps, distorts and cripples the child's potential to have a normal,

healthy, joyful adult life.

Damage is damage; its all bad.

-Annie

>

> Dear C,

>

> Thank you for your kind letter.

>

> Somehow it sounds strange to me to read that what I wrote was so sad, because

during all my life my mother told me again and again that everything was normal

and that if I dare to tell " bad things about her " outside, I was a bad daughter.

So I have been used to think that I was doing a big drama about quite nothing

and that the way I was treated was just normal. 

>

> Then in my adult life I have been attracted nearly everytime to bad partners

who didn't really loved me and didn't respect me and two of them were also

violents, each time I was pregnant I was so bad treated by the man I was with,

and well I was just thinking that somehow I desserved to be treated like that. I

have left them and today I live alone for many years, I am too scared to try

again with a man.

>

>

> The fact is that about my nada there was no physical violence and no screams

from her, always only her evil icy cold dictatorial voice. Today I think that I

would have liked her to scream sometimes, then things would have become more

alive.

[Guest guest]

If anything, I think emotional abuse can be worse in some ways

than physical abuse. With physical abuse, there are usually

visible injuries to point to so that people can be shown that

the abuse is happening. When physical abuse is shown, the

authorities are legally supposed to step in and put a stop to

it. With emotional abuse, there are no bruises or other injuries

to show. The authorities tend to look the other way and say

nothing has been proven or nothing illegal is happening. Other

family members often brush it off and allow it to continue.

Friends and neighbors sometimes blame the victim for being a

" difficult " child. Even worse, it can take years for the victim

of emotional abuse to understand that it was abuse and even

longer to stop blaming herself/himself for what happened.

At 12:15 PM 07/01/2012 anuria67854 wrote:

>Hi Natacha,

>

>Abuse is abuse; cold, rejecting behavior from a parent is just

>as damaging as screaming, violent behavior. Those kinds of

>abuse are just as wrong and damaging as being " parentified " by

>a parent, or being " spousified " /sexually exploited by a

>parent.

>

>ALL these types of abuse are deep betrayals of the very purpose

>of parenting, which is to nurture, guide and protect.

>

>Any kind of frequent, intense, ongoing abuse does the opposite

>of nurturing the child: it warps, distorts and cripples the

>child's potential to have a normal, healthy, joyful adult life.

>

>Damage is damage; its all bad.

>

>-Annie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

If the physical abuse is done carefully and covertly, like sexual abuse, it

doesn't show.

My little Sister and I had welts, broken skin and bruises but they were under

our clothes, AND we were made to feel like we deserved the beatings so we were

ashamed to tell anyone, not even dad. I felt deep shame that I " made " my

mother so angry that she'd beat me.

Children who are sexually abused have a difficult time telling about it; they

are often either bribed or pressured or threatened with dire consequences by the

perp if they tell, and sometimes when the child is able to overcome the fear and

shame and does tell, he or she is invalidated by their mother, the one who is

most responsible for protecting the child:

( " Its no big deal, I was sexually molested when I was your age " or " How dare you

tell such a horrible lie about your father /brother /cousin, etc; you are going

to be punished for lying " or " Its your fault, you must have seduced him, you

little slut " , etc. " ) in order to " protect the family name. "

So, its all bad, truly, and for sure emotional abuse is a huge, key component of

physical or sexual abuse; emotional abuse is the *core abuse* and horribly

damaging whether its accompanied by other kinds of abuse/neglect or not.

-Annie

> >Hi Natacha,

> >

> >Abuse is abuse; cold, rejecting behavior from a parent is just

> >as damaging as screaming, violent behavior. Those kinds of

> >abuse are just as wrong and damaging as being " parentified " by

> >a parent, or being " spousified " /sexually exploited by a

> >parent.

> >

> >ALL these types of abuse are deep betrayals of the very purpose

> >of parenting, which is to nurture, guide and protect.

> >

> >Any kind of frequent, intense, ongoing abuse does the opposite

> >of nurturing the child: it warps, distorts and cripples the

> >child's potential to have a normal, healthy, joyful adult life.

> >

> >Damage is damage; its all bad.

> >

> >-Annie

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Oh yes, it is all bad. I'm just sick of hearing people use the

word " only " in front of " emotional abuse " . I'm sick of the

authorities being unable to do anything to stop nadas and fadas

from continuing the daily abuse they heap on their children

because the law doesn't even recognize it as abuse in many

cases. And I'm really upset at the number of adults who don't

realize that that their nadas and fadas were abusers and that

they were the victims of abuse because the abuse was mostly

emotional. Too often the damage goes on and on and on.

At 12:51 PM 07/01/2012 anuria67854 wrote:

>If the physical abuse is done carefully and covertly, like

>sexual abuse, it doesn't show.

>My little Sister and I had welts, broken skin and bruises but

>they were under our clothes, AND we were made to feel like we

>deserved the beatings so we were ashamed to tell anyone, not

>even dad. I felt deep shame that I " made " my mother so angry

>that she'd beat me.

>

>Children who are sexually abused have a difficult time telling

>about it; they are often either bribed or pressured or

>threatened with dire consequences by the perp if they tell, and

>sometimes when the child is able to overcome the fear and shame

>and does tell, he or she is invalidated by their mother, the

>one who is most responsible for protecting the child:

>( " Its no big deal, I was sexually molested when I was your age "

>or " How dare you tell such a horrible lie about your father

>/brother /cousin, etc; you are going to be punished for lying "

>or " Its your fault, you must have seduced him, you little

>slut " , etc. " ) in order to " protect the family name. "

>

>So, its all bad, truly, and for sure emotional abuse is a huge,

>key component of physical or sexual abuse; emotional abuse is

>the *core abuse* and horribly damaging whether its accompanied

>by other kinds of abuse/neglect or not.

>

>-Annie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I agree, its wrong to think of it as " just " emotional/verbal abuse or " only "

emotional/verbal abuse, because emotional abuse IS the core abuse and the key

damage inflicted in any form of abuse.

In some states this understanding is gradually growing RE just how damaging

emotional abuse / emotional neglect actually is. Emotional abuse by one or

both parents is now being considered a factor in determining custody of a child

or visitation in divorce cases in some states.

Hopefully, eventually, it will become standard throughout all the states that

chronic, frequent, and/or extreme verbal or emotional abuse or emotional neglect

of a child is a valid reason for removing the child from the parent's custody,

and a key factor in determining the child's best interests when assigning

custody and visitation.

-Annie

> >If the physical abuse is done carefully and covertly, like

> >sexual abuse, it doesn't show.

> >My little Sister and I had welts, broken skin and bruises but

> >they were under our clothes, AND we were made to feel like we

> >deserved the beatings so we were ashamed to tell anyone, not

> >even dad. I felt deep shame that I " made " my mother so angry

> >that she'd beat me.

> >

> >Children who are sexually abused have a difficult time telling

> >about it; they are often either bribed or pressured or

> >threatened with dire consequences by the perp if they tell, and

> >sometimes when the child is able to overcome the fear and shame

> >and does tell, he or she is invalidated by their mother, the

> >one who is most responsible for protecting the child:

> >( " Its no big deal, I was sexually molested when I was your age "

> >or " How dare you tell such a horrible lie about your father

> >/brother /cousin, etc; you are going to be punished for lying "

> >or " Its your fault, you must have seduced him, you little

> >slut " , etc. " ) in order to " protect the family name. "

> >

> >So, its all bad, truly, and for sure emotional abuse is a huge,

> >key component of physical or sexual abuse; emotional abuse is

> >the *core abuse* and horribly damaging whether its accompanied

> >by other kinds of abuse/neglect or not.

> >

> >-Annie

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Dearest Natacha,

I think the most difficult part of growing up the child of a BPD Mother is they

give the appearance of normality very well. To the outside world, they seem

attentive, well put together and even doting. Some of their behavior begins

" normal " or mirrors what non-BPD parents do but then they take it to another

extreme. Very unhealthy.

I recently told my mother, I felt she loved me like one loves an accessory. Of

course, she was offended and said she was hurt, and even more ... but one of

their key traits is it is never about the other person. People with BPD are

consumed with themselves. Every act is about them. How they felt, thought,

behaved, responded, reacted....

As you continue on your path to healing, please know you are not at fault. She

was the mother and you were the child. As you continue to seek answers and gain

awareness, you are not betraying her or anyone else. It is your right, and you

owe it to your self to be healthy (mentally, emotionally, spiritually,fiscally).

Sadly, you may find at this time people who are afraid of your well being and

your breaking out of the same old patterns as they are comfortable with the

current discomfort.

As you seek healing, you will begin to remove or diminish people who are part of

your unhealthy patterns this goes for friends, lovers and relatives.

Peace and Blessings!

MyReality67

>

> Dear C,

>

> Thank you for your kind letter.

>

> Somehow it sounds strange to me to read that what I wrote was so sad, because

during all my life my mother told me again and again that everything was normal

and that if I dare to tell " bad things about her " outside, I was a bad daughter.

So I have been used to think that I was doing a big drama about quite nothing

and that the way I was treated was just normal. 

>

> Then in my adult life I have been attracted nearly everytime to bad partners

who didn't really loved me and didn't respect me and two of them were also

violents, each time I was pregnant I was so bad treated by the man I was with,

and well I was just thinking that somehow I desserved to be treated like that. I

have left them and today I live alone for many years, I am too scared to try

again with a man.

>

>

> The fact is that about my nada there was no physical violence and no screams

from her, always only her evil icy cold dictatorial voice. Today I think that I

would have liked her to scream sometimes, then things would have become more

alive.

>

>

> I was clean in my physical appearance, I was good at school, I had no blue on

my body, there was no details from outside which could make anyone think ever of

ill-treating about me. And most of all I was thinking too that I had a normal

child life. That the way my mother was treating me was normal. My Grand-Mother

was always telling to me like a mantra : " Your mother is doing all what she could

for you ! Your mother loves you ! " I don't think nada ever told me that she

loved me. I try to remember her cuddling me and I remember only one time, I

think I was five and she cuddle me a little in an armchair.

>

> I feel very guilty to write all this. I feel like I am betraying her. Like I

am such an awfull daughter daring to say naughty things about her mother. 

>

> I have written about 130 poems since the beginning of May and most of them are

about the topic of how it was for me to be a child of a borderline. I am so

surprised about all the staff I am discovering daily. I have forgotten many

things and they are waking up. I think it is a healing process, because while I

have written about something, it is less harming me inside.

>

>

> The most painfull was last week when I had to feel again how I felt during my

six first weeks of life. I had no dad, because she had left him just after my

birth and ran away back to her parents'home. She was not even looking at me ! I

have a picture I am six weeks on. This picture is very painfull but I love it

because it is a proof about how she was really with me.

>

> I have written a poem about what this baby was feeling inside.

>

>

> This is the translation in English :

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> De : CmeBfree

> À : WTOAdultChildren1

> Envoyé le : Dimanche 1 juillet 2012 4h31

> Objet : Re: BPD and Jealousy

>

>

>  

> Natacha, your post was so very sad. I know that my nada has a little witch in

her, but she is mostly a queen. My nada tries to fill the emptiness in her with

things. I think the most true thing she ever told me was that all of her little

figures and china and dolls etcetera helped her keep from thinking bad things.

That when bad thoughts come through her mind she will focus on one of her

collectables and recall where she was when she got it and who was with her. I

guess it is the only way she has come up with to self soothe.

>

> Never feel like you are annoying any one by telling your truth here. That is

what this place is for. It is a safe place to tell your truth and have others

validate you.

>

> C

>

>

>

>

>