Curious

[Guest guest]

Hi All! I was responding to another post and asked this person a question, and

I thought I'd pose this to those who have been around a while. Has your mom

been diagnosed with BPD so they are aware of it, or did you just start seeking

answers and realize your mom meets the criteria as set forth by the doctors? My

situation is my mom has not been diagnosed with it. I just started searching

for some answers for how she was behaving and treating me and found this. She

clearly meets all 9 of the criteria. I am wondering should I approach her with

my discovery and see if she's willing to talk to a doctor, or should I talk to

one of her doctors that she trusts and see what they think before confronting

her?

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

My advice is not to approach her about it at all. Doing so is

likely to result in greater problems rather than helping. People

with BPD simply don't recognize that there is anything wrong

with them. It is everyone else who has a problem. Since they

don't believe anything is wrong with them, they're not open to

getting treatment. If they do get diagnosed with BPD they tend

to switch doctors since the one making that diagnosis is so

clearly wrong. If you talk to her about it, she's more likely to

decide that you must have BPD than that she might have it. If

you're harboring hopes that she'll suddenly realize she's

mentally ill and get help, that's not realistic.

At 07:09 PM 07/15/2012 jtadcock wrote:

>Hi All! I was responding to another post and asked this person

>a question, and I thought I'd pose this to those who have been

>around a while. Has your mom been diagnosed with BPD so they

>are aware of it, or did you just start seeking answers and

>realize your mom meets the criteria as set forth by the

>doctors? My situation is my mom has not been diagnosed with

>it. I just started searching for some answers for how she was

>behaving and treating me and found this. She clearly meets all

>9 of the criteria. I am wondering should I approach her with my

>discovery and see if she's willing to talk to a doctor, or

>should I talk to one of her doctors that she trusts and see

>what they think before confronting her?

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Thank you Katrina -- your response made me laugh! You're so right...she does not

see that she EVER does anything wrong, and of course ALL of her doctors are

stupid when they can never find anything wrong with her, or if they do find

something it's not what she wants.

For me to think she would be anything but combative about it is comical!

> >Hi All! I was responding to another post and asked this person

> >a question, and I thought I'd pose this to those who have been

> >around a while. Has your mom been diagnosed with BPD so they

> >are aware of it, or did you just start seeking answers and

> >realize your mom meets the criteria as set forth by the

> >doctors? My situation is my mom has not been diagnosed with

> >it. I just started searching for some answers for how she was

> >behaving and treating me and found this. She clearly meets all

> >9 of the criteria. I am wondering should I approach her with my

> >discovery and see if she's willing to talk to a doctor, or

> >should I talk to one of her doctors that she trusts and see

> >what they think before confronting her?

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

My nada is undiagnosed. I initially thought she had HPD as she meets all of the

criteria. The therapist I began seeing told me I should read up on BPD as my

nada's behavior was indicative of that. After reading up on it I believe she is

both.

I have asked her to seek therapy and used specific life events as the reason

why. Of course, she does not have a problem and I am just trying to

psychoanalyze her. It seems to me that a large part of the disorder is people

with BPD don't think they have a problem.

It seems my nada always needs a demon in her life. If it isn't one of her

husbands or ex-husbands, I am chief demon in charge when she is not married.

> > >Hi All! I was responding to another post and asked this person

> > >a question, and I thought I'd pose this to those who have been

> > >around a while. Has your mom been diagnosed with BPD so they

> > >are aware of it, or did you just start seeking answers and

> > >realize your mom meets the criteria as set forth by the

> > >doctors? My situation is my mom has not been diagnosed with

> > >it. I just started searching for some answers for how she was

> > >behaving and treating me and found this. She clearly meets all

> > >9 of the criteria. I am wondering should I approach her with my

> > >discovery and see if she's willing to talk to a doctor, or

> > >should I talk to one of her doctors that she trusts and see

> > >what they think before confronting her?

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My nada is undiagnosed as well (well for BD, she has been diagnosed for

everything else it seems). I wondered the same thing, does it even matter if I

try and help her by mentioning this disorder? The consensus seems to be no,

telling them only creates more problems, especially for non-BD's.

My nada just was admitted to the hospital again and I was able to speak with

someone who I think might know she has BPD. This was such a relief and to know

she might actually get treatment gives me a HUGE surge of hope...and that's

something that doesn't come easy.

It seems the best part of our knowledge, even if nada's are in denial or have no

clue, is that we can take care of ourselves and concentrate on improving our

lives.

~

> > > >Hi All! I was responding to another post and asked this person

> > > >a question, and I thought I'd pose this to those who have been

> > > >around a while. Has your mom been diagnosed with BPD so they

> > > >are aware of it, or did you just start seeking answers and

> > > >realize your mom meets the criteria as set forth by the

> > > >doctors? My situation is my mom has not been diagnosed with

> > > >it. I just started searching for some answers for how she was

> > > >behaving and treating me and found this. She clearly meets all

> > > >9 of the criteria. I am wondering should I approach her with my

> > > >discovery and see if she's willing to talk to a doctor, or

> > > >should I talk to one of her doctors that she trusts and see

> > > >what they think before confronting her?

> > >

> > > --

> > > Katrina

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Best advice I ever got was from another BPD person who was trying to help me

understand Nada and he said " You have to stop hoping she'll respond resasonably

because bpd's won't ever act rationally.  So its up to us as non bpd to

understand that even though almost all of us never give up hope

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:27 PM

Subject: Re: Curious

 

Thank you Katrina -- your response made me laugh! You're so right...she does not

see that she EVER does anything wrong, and of course ALL of her doctors are

stupid when they can never find anything wrong with her, or if they do find

something it's not what she wants.

For me to think she would be anything but combative about it is comical!

> >Hi All! I was responding to another post and asked this person

> >a question, and I thought I'd pose this to those who have been

> >around a while. Has your mom been diagnosed with BPD so they

> >are aware of it, or did you just start seeking answers and

> >realize your mom meets the criteria as set forth by the

> >doctors? My situation is my mom has not been diagnosed with

> >it. I just started searching for some answers for how she was

> >behaving and treating me and found this. She clearly meets all

> >9 of the criteria. I am wondering should I approach her with my

> >discovery and see if she's willing to talk to a doctor, or

> >should I talk to one of her doctors that she trusts and see

> >what they think before confronting her?

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

I wondered the same thing: how many nadas have had an actual diagnosis. I had 2

friends (both psychologists) tell me they thought she was BPD when I grumbled

about how my nada acted and treated me. I never heard of BPD so I didn't take it

too seriously. Then a counselor for my husband told me to read the eggshells

book. What an eye opener. That's when it all began to make sense. I've lived my

whole life in fear and with guilt thinking I must be a bad person but couldn't

see it.

Mentioning it to your mom won't help. BP nadas never see any fault in

themselves. If you mention an illness like flu, cancer, pancreatitis, she'll

probably adopt that (my nada always has whatever illness is discussed in the

medical column in her newspaper). But tell her she's got a mental issue and

you'll face World War III. Mine also goes through doctors like tissue. They

can't find anything wrong with her and if they tell her something she doesn't

want to hear, she leaves them.

There's no way to reason with a BPD person. Their perception of reality is so

different than ours.

>

> Hi All! I was responding to another post and asked this person a question,

and I thought I'd pose this to those who have been around a while. Has your mom

been diagnosed with BPD so they are aware of it, or did you just start seeking

answers and realize your mom meets the criteria as set forth by the doctors? My

situation is my mom has not been diagnosed with it. I just started searching

for some answers for how she was behaving and treating me and found this. She

clearly meets all 9 of the criteria. I am wondering should I approach her with

my discovery and see if she's willing to talk to a doctor, or should I talk to

one of her doctors that she trusts and see what they think before confronting

her?

>

> Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to add another voice to the chorus:

My nada is not diagnosed. I'm not in a position to diagnose, but if

forced, my guess would be that she's a mix of OCPD/BPD. Unfortunately most

PD folks don't fall into nice neat little boxes -- there's a real tendency

to mix types and overlap and so on.

And I agree, don't bring it up to her. She just won't buy it. If the BPD

folks were able to see that the way they were doing things was ineffective

and inappropriate (and crazy-making), they'd probably try to fix it on

their own (maybe...). But they don't see it, and you can't make them.

You'll just make yourself crazier trying to " fix " them.

-- Jen H.

> **

>

>

> I wondered the same thing: how many nadas have had an actual diagnosis. I

> had 2 friends (both psychologists) tell me they thought she was BPD when I

> grumbled about how my nada acted and treated me. I never heard of BPD so I

> didn't take it too seriously. Then a counselor for my husband told me to

> read the eggshells book. What an eye opener. That's when it all began to

> make sense. I've lived my whole life in fear and with guilt thinking I must

> be a bad person but couldn't see it.

>

> Mentioning it to your mom won't help. BP nadas never see any fault in

> themselves. If you mention an illness like flu, cancer, pancreatitis,

> she'll probably adopt that (my nada always has whatever illness is

> discussed in the medical column in her newspaper). But tell her she's got a

> mental issue and you'll face World War III. Mine also goes through doctors

> like tissue. They can't find anything wrong with her and if they tell her

> something she doesn't want to hear, she leaves them.

>

> There's no way to reason with a BPD person. Their perception of reality is

> so different than ours.

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi All! I was responding to another post and asked this person a

> question, and I thought I'd pose this to those who have been around a

> while. Has your mom been diagnosed with BPD so they are aware of it, or did

> you just start seeking answers and realize your mom meets the criteria as

> set forth by the doctors? My situation is my mom has not been diagnosed

> with it. I just started searching for some answers for how she was behaving

> and treating me and found this. She clearly meets all 9 of the criteria. I

> am wondering should I approach her with my discovery and see if she's

> willing to talk to a doctor, or should I talk to one of her doctors that

> she trusts and see what they think before confronting her?

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow! Thanks to all of you for your input. Everyone's story sounds so similar,

but everyone's I'm sure has a very unique twist to it. But the common threads

sound you " You cannot reason with them " and " You have to protect your sanity " !

I don't know about all of you, but I really feel like I've been scammed for 46

years. When I was little, I was not the object of her agression for the most

part, but certainly suffered at her emotional instability. My brother and my

mom's boyfriends caught the brunt of it. But now that she is widowed and has not

desire to meet ANYONE for friendship or companionship - I'm IT!

So I will continue to work on myself and like someone else said, find peace in

knowing finally that I'm not the irrational one. I can tell I'm going to depend

on everyone here for advice!

I also find it very interesting that it sounds like everyone's nada's have the

same issues with doctors. I HATE going to the doctor with her because I know

how it's going to end, and she insists on me going back with her, and you can

just see the look on the drs faces like " is she serious? "

Thank you all for helping to provide some perspective!

> > >

> > > Hi All! I was responding to another post and asked this person a

> > question, and I thought I'd pose this to those who have been around a

> > while. Has your mom been diagnosed with BPD so they are aware of it, or did

> > you just start seeking answers and realize your mom meets the criteria as

> > set forth by the doctors? My situation is my mom has not been diagnosed

> > with it. I just started searching for some answers for how she was behaving

> > and treating me and found this. She clearly meets all 9 of the criteria. I

> > am wondering should I approach her with my discovery and see if she's

> > willing to talk to a doctor, or should I talk to one of her doctors that

> > she trusts and see what they think before confronting her?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've been here about 5 years. My T is the one who taught me about BPD. My mother

did not have an official diagnosis.

There are many people with BPD out there who will never be officially diagnosed.

That is because you have to actually go to a therapist or a doctor for that to

happen. The lower-functioning BPDs, who make suicide attempts and go totally

psychotic crazy in public and get themselves put in the hospital, those are the

ones who usually get diagnosed. The rest, the higher-functioning ones, are much

less likely to be seen by a professional.

I don't usually tell people what to do, but this is one instance where I don't

see gray: DO NOT tell your mother about BPD. Just don't do it. You've had a

light-bulb moment where everything is starting to make sense. If you're like

most of us, you want to give your nada that same light bulb and for her to get

help and then everything can be rosy. You may be thinking you have knowledge

that can help her. But if anyone is going to say the words " BPD " to a nada, it

NEEDS to be from a professional who is qualified to diagnose. The result will

NOT be pretty if it comes from you. Like I said, I've been on this board for 5+

years, and I've seen what happens.

That said, you can encourage her to seek professional help. She won't like that

either, but that's the most you can do. For example, " Gee Mom, if you're that

unhappy with your relationships, it might help to talk with a therapist about

it. "

Sveta

[Guest guest]

I agree with what Sveta has posted, exactly. She nailed it.

If you say to your mother, " Here's a book about something called borderline

personality disorder, and there is a treatment that seems to help those with

bpd, maybe it will help you " she will only perceive that as an attack. She will

hear/interpret that as you saying, " You are crazy and you need therapy. " It

will make your relationship worse instead of better.

What Sveta recommended would have a better chance of being perceived as

empathetic and supportive instead of as a hostile attack: couching your

suggestion in terms of, " I can see that you are unhappy in your relationship...

(etc.) "

From what I've read, even experienced, professional, compassionate psychologists

have a difficult time broaching the concept with their patient, that their

patient's problems /unhappiness are not always due to other people or

circumstances not of their own making, but are often coming from inside the

patient's own self.

-Annie

>

> I've been here about 5 years. My T is the one who taught me about BPD. My

mother did not have an official diagnosis.

>

> There are many people with BPD out there who will never be officially

diagnosed. That is because you have to actually go to a therapist or a doctor

for that to happen. The lower-functioning BPDs, who make suicide attempts and go

totally psychotic crazy in public and get themselves put in the hospital, those

are the ones who usually get diagnosed. The rest, the higher-functioning ones,

are much less likely to be seen by a professional.

>

> I don't usually tell people what to do, but this is one instance where I don't

see gray: DO NOT tell your mother about BPD. Just don't do it. You've had a

light-bulb moment where everything is starting to make sense. If you're like

most of us, you want to give your nada that same light bulb and for her to get

help and then everything can be rosy. You may be thinking you have knowledge

that can help her. But if anyone is going to say the words " BPD " to a nada, it

NEEDS to be from a professional who is qualified to diagnose. The result will

NOT be pretty if it comes from you. Like I said, I've been on this board for 5+

years, and I've seen what happens.

>

> That said, you can encourage her to seek professional help. She won't like

that either, but that's the most you can do. For example, " Gee Mom, if you're

that unhappy with your relationships, it might help to talk with a therapist

about it. "

>

> Sveta

>

[Guest guest]

You all are right. I have abandoned that idea. Thanks! I remember prior to me

discovered BPD I halfway brought up early dementia and she flew off the handle:)

But I'm waiting to talk with my T...couldn't get in to her until August 1st...

Seriously, the more I analyze her situation, I'm doubting her mental capacity

even beyond the BPD. Very poor eating habits because she refuses to fix food,

except for the same flavor Lean Cuisine every night. And the only reason she

likes that one is because the directions don't tell her to stop halfway through

and stir. She eats yogurt that she doesn't have to cook, peanut butter crackers

that she doesn't cook, toaster strudels that just go in the toaster, and

prepackaged pudding -- EIGHT of them a day. She won't accept Meals on Wheels

because she doesn't trust where the food came from. She bathes once a week

because she says it hurts. I have a lady come in and clean her apt once every

two weeks to avoid the hoarder status she was reaching in her previous home --

no joke. She fired the first one because she said she stole old rags from her

(which she didn't). She won't call anyone on the phone and handle anything

herself. She asks me to do it, even though she sits in her apt 24/7 and I get up

at 4:30, at work by 6:30 and work until around 5 every day and work OT on

Saturdays and go grocery shopping for her every week and visit her twice a week.

She won't even ride in her electric wheelchair up to the front office to pick up

her mail because she doesn't want to see any of her neighbors. She lives in a

senior residence, not assistaed living, but 62 and older residents. She says

they all talk about her when they see her, and stare at her. Of course she

thinks everybody does. She won't even go join in games that they play several

times a week because she feels funny. And each time I've offered to go with her,

she finds a reason not to go. The last time was a whole other story in itself

I'll have to delve into later:) Sorry -- got off on a tangent...

> >

> > I've been here about 5 years. My T is the one who taught me about BPD. My

mother did not have an official diagnosis.

> >

> > There are many people with BPD out there who will never be officially

diagnosed. That is because you have to actually go to a therapist or a doctor

for that to happen. The lower-functioning BPDs, who make suicide attempts and go

totally psychotic crazy in public and get themselves put in the hospital, those

are the ones who usually get diagnosed. The rest, the higher-functioning ones,

are much less likely to be seen by a professional.

> >

> > I don't usually tell people what to do, but this is one instance where I

don't see gray: DO NOT tell your mother about BPD. Just don't do it. You've had

a light-bulb moment where everything is starting to make sense. If you're like

most of us, you want to give your nada that same light bulb and for her to get

help and then everything can be rosy. You may be thinking you have knowledge

that can help her. But if anyone is going to say the words " BPD " to a nada, it

NEEDS to be from a professional who is qualified to diagnose. The result will

NOT be pretty if it comes from you. Like I said, I've been on this board for 5+

years, and I've seen what happens.

> >

> > That said, you can encourage her to seek professional help. She won't like

that either, but that's the most you can do. For example, " Gee Mom, if you're

that unhappy with your relationships, it might help to talk with a therapist

about it. "

> >

> > Sveta

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your nada's case could be different, but the paranoid thinking you've described

sounds familiar. My nada's paranoia level increased in frequency and intensity

over the last couple of years of her life. For my nada this increasingly

intense level of paranoia was followed by active hallucinations which caused my

nada to do things like wander around outside at night burying her valuables

around the grounds of the apartment complex she lived in, and to become

belligerent with the police, who took her in for an involuntary psychiatric hold

and evaluation. At that point nada received a formal diagnosis of senile

dementia, which allowed Sister to obtain legal custody/responsibility for our

nada and have nada transferred into a very nice residential nursing care home

with an Alzheimer's wing.

Its sad, but from my point of view nada's paranoia and her domineering,

controlling, belligerent/violent behavior were nothing new, it was the same as

her lifelong BPD behaviors in a more frequent and intense form, being

demonstrated openly to other people instead of just to Sister and me, for a

change. The only real difference was the hallucinating; that was new.

My best wishes to you as you navigate through your nada's chronic bpd behaviors

and increasing elder care needs; I hope you will not make yourself ill trying to

please her, just do what you can (if you feel the need to do so) and feel no

guilt. Or as little guilt as possible.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I've been here about 5 years. My T is the one who taught me about BPD. My

mother did not have an official diagnosis.

> > >

> > > There are many people with BPD out there who will never be officially

diagnosed. That is because you have to actually go to a therapist or a doctor

for that to happen. The lower-functioning BPDs, who make suicide attempts and go

totally psychotic crazy in public and get themselves put in the hospital, those

are the ones who usually get diagnosed. The rest, the higher-functioning ones,

are much less likely to be seen by a professional.

> > >

> > > I don't usually tell people what to do, but this is one instance where I

don't see gray: DO NOT tell your mother about BPD. Just don't do it. You've had

a light-bulb moment where everything is starting to make sense. If you're like

most of us, you want to give your nada that same light bulb and for her to get

help and then everything can be rosy. You may be thinking you have knowledge

that can help her. But if anyone is going to say the words " BPD " to a nada, it

NEEDS to be from a professional who is qualified to diagnose. The result will

NOT be pretty if it comes from you. Like I said, I've been on this board for 5+

years, and I've seen what happens.

> > >

> > > That said, you can encourage her to seek professional help. She won't like

that either, but that's the most you can do. For example, " Gee Mom, if you're

that unhappy with your relationships, it might help to talk with a therapist

about it. "

> > >

> > > Sveta

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Annie, thanks for your post. It sounds like you've been through so much too.

I appreciate your insight so much. Your last comment about not making myself ill

-- too late. I've been diagnosed with Crohn's Disease within the past two years

and all this stress is certainly not good for me. Initially I was hoping she

would see that as a sign that it was too much for me (but this was prior to my

learning of BPD so I wasn't to the realization yet that I had to take care of

myself and it was OKAY to stand my ground) and ease up on me, but no such luck.

She points out everybody/everything else in my life that might create too much

stress, but she's never included herself in that list of course.

I'm sure I would have been better off had I made this discovery many years ago.

My actions towards her and her behavior would have been so much different. As

it stood, I spent so much time trying to please her because surely I was the

reason she was so miserable because I didn't spend more time with her and didn't

let her live with us (after a brief 4 month stay that was EXPLOSIVE), and she

had such a miserable life/childhood, that it was my sole responsibility to make

up for it all. I have certainly overextended myself with her to the point that

I missed out on some crucial years of my son's life because I spent almost every

weekend with her for a couple of years when things got so bad. Now, I'm trying

to regain my life while not cutting her out of it, and it's going to be a tricky

balance.

I have learned so much already!

> > > >

> > > > I've been here about 5 years. My T is the one who taught me about BPD.

My mother did not have an official diagnosis.

> > > >

> > > > There are many people with BPD out there who will never be officially

diagnosed. That is because you have to actually go to a therapist or a doctor

for that to happen. The lower-functioning BPDs, who make suicide attempts and go

totally psychotic crazy in public and get themselves put in the hospital, those

are the ones who usually get diagnosed. The rest, the higher-functioning ones,

are much less likely to be seen by a professional.

> > > >

> > > > I don't usually tell people what to do, but this is one instance where I

don't see gray: DO NOT tell your mother about BPD. Just don't do it. You've had

a light-bulb moment where everything is starting to make sense. If you're like

most of us, you want to give your nada that same light bulb and for her to get

help and then everything can be rosy. You may be thinking you have knowledge

that can help her. But if anyone is going to say the words " BPD " to a nada, it

NEEDS to be from a professional who is qualified to diagnose. The result will

NOT be pretty if it comes from you. Like I said, I've been on this board for 5+

years, and I've seen what happens.

> > > >

> > > > That said, you can encourage her to seek professional help. She won't

like that either, but that's the most you can do. For example, " Gee Mom, if

you're that unhappy with your relationships, it might help to talk with a

therapist about it. "

> > > >

> > > > Sveta

> > > >

> > >

> >

>