Do I have to leave the group?

[Guest guest]

I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my therapist.

Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what I'm working on,

she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that

I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing about

this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only comment I can remember

is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an email " from my mother where I

scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name

calling and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this

therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's

true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis "

won't that raise alarms with the new person, and I can never take my records to

a new person. I have to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks

think? And thank you for all feedback.

[Guest guest]

That has to have been a shock. I know a lot of us are fearful of that very thing

happening. Sorry you're going through that.

Have you asked your T exactly which criteria she thinks you meet, and what has

led her to the conclusion that you meet them? In other words, ask to see her

thought process.

If she is drawing conclusions based only on what your nada said in a ranting

letter, then maybe she's not the best match for you. On the other hand, maybe

she has observed other things directly from you that have led her to that

diagnosis. If that is the case, maybe she will be able to help you work through

them.

What do you think?

Sveta

[Guest guest]

PS, It might help me to have a refresher...can you link to one of your older

posts or give a brief summary of your other concerns about this T? Only if you

feel up to it...

Sveta

[Guest guest]

Hi Mimi,

I admit I'm confused because I thought acceptance of personal responsibility for

negative, hurtful patterns of thinking and behavior, and the desire to learn how

to control/modify negative, hurtful behaviors indicated that an individual does

not have a personality disorder. But then, I am not a trained psychologist; I'm

just speaking from my own experience of having a mother who was formally

diagnosed with BPD twice, by two different therapists, and who died recently of

senile dementia and other medical health issues.

All I can do is point out that because this is a place where the non-pd adult

kids of bpd parents can safely vent their raw, open hurt, pain, bewilderment,

frustration and anger over the abuse they've endured or are still enduring from

their bpd parents without holding back, its possible that you might feel

triggered by these discussions. Only you can know if you would feel OK or feel

worse or perhaps feel attacked by the kinds of posts we make here, which include

the very real pain and anger we express toward our bpd parents.

So, I'll leave it to you; if you want to be here and feel you can without it

making you feel worse, then, we can be of mutual benefit to each other in our

sharing what works and what hasn't worked for us in coming to terms with having

a bpd parent, managing that relationship, or detaching from that relationship,

and coming to terms with the damage that having a personality-disordered parent

did to us.

-Annie

>

> I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my therapist.

Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what I'm working on,

she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that

I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing about

this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only comment I can remember

is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an email " from my mother where I

scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name

calling and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this

therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's

true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis "

won't that raise alarms with the new person, and I can never take my records to

a new person. I have to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks

think? And thank you for all feedback.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Mimi - sorry of for the short and sweet but I am kind of busy tonight.

Have you and / or you T considered FLEAS?!?!?!

When I first read about BPD I was terrified that I had it too but as I read

further I leaned about fleas and realized that that was probably the case as

I have been seeking T since about 16 years old. In my completely

NON-professional opinion please consider that you have strong FLEAS and your

current T is not seeing the forest through the trees.

I would seek a second opinion.

Best to you, don't give up on us too quickly as in my experience with BPDs /

NPDs, if they were to get that diagnosis they would only rebel, not question

why, as you have..

Hope helps

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of anuria67854

Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 9:08 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Do I have to leave the gro

Hi Mimi,

I admit I'm confused because I thought acceptance of personal responsibility

for negative, hurtful patterns of thinking and behavior, and the desire to

learn how to control/modify negative, hurtful behaviors indicated that an

individual does not have a personality disorder. But then, I am not a

trained psychologist; I'm just speaking from my own experience of having a

mother who was formally diagnosed with BPD twice, by two different

therapists, and who died recently of senile dementia and other medical

health issues.

All I can do is point out that because this is a place where the non-pd

adult kids of bpd parents can safely vent their raw, open hurt, pain,

bewilderment, frustration and anger over the abuse they've endured or are

still enduring from their bpd parents without holding back, its possible

that you might feel triggered by these discussions. Only you can know if you

would feel OK or feel worse or perhaps feel attacked by the kinds of posts

we make here, which include the very real pain and anger we express toward

our bpd parents.

So, I'll leave it to you; if you want to be here and feel you can without it

making you feel worse, then, we can be of mutual benefit to each other in

our sharing what works and what hasn't worked for us in coming to terms with

having a bpd parent, managing that relationship, or detaching from that

relationship, and coming to terms with the damage that having a

personality-disordered parent did to us.

-Annie

>

> I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my

therapist. Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what

I'm working on, she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven

criteria and said that I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard.

I've been stewing about this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the

only comment I can remember is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an

email " from my mother where I scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about

me. " *I* know what that means, but evidentally my therapist took her word

for it, even after reading the name calling and accusations that I

burglarized her home further down the email. Now I'm even more confused than

ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this therapist, isn't that

what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's true?! Or, if I do

get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis " won't that raise

alarms with the new person, and I can never take my records to a new person.

I have to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks think? And

thank you for all feedback.

>

[Guest guest]

Mimi,

I don't think it is ever wrong to seek a second opinion when it

comes to a diagnosis or treatment of a condition. If the second

opinion is the same as the first and you refuse to deal with it

because you just don't think there's anything wrong with you,

that would be a problem but wanting a second opinion is not a

bad thing. What kind of training does your therapist

have? Didn't you mention earlier that she said she sees a lot

of people with BPD? It may be that she's diagnosing BPD where it

doesn't really exist because she has just enough knowledge to be

dangerous. " Therapist " covers a very wide range of people, some

with a lot of training, some with very little. Calling you

paranoid for not believing the lies your BPD mother wrote about

you doesn't sound good to me. It really makes me wonder whether

she knows anything at all about dealing with people with BPD.

I don't see any reason for you to leave the group unless the

things we say are upsetting you. You're certainly not saying

things that upset me and I see no reason to think you're

upsetting anyone else. You seem to fit the criteria of having a

parent with BPD, regardless of any diagnosis of your own.

At 07:48 PM 7/20/2012 mimi20904 wrote:

>I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with

>my therapist. Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis

>so I know what I'm working on, she gave me the diagnosis of

>BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that I meet five

>of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing

>about this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only

>comment I can remember is she mentioned my " paranoia when I

>shared an email " from my mother where I scoffed at my mother

>saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

>evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after

>reading the name calling and accusations that I burglarized her

>home further down the email. Now I'm even more confused than

>ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this therapist,

>isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that

>it's true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the

> " incorrect diagnosis " won't that raise alarms with the new

>person, and I can never take my records to a new person. I have

>to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks think?

>And thank you for all feedback.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I would def get a second opinion.

> >I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with

> >my therapist. Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis

> >so I know what I'm working on, she gave me the diagnosis of

> >BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that I meet five

> >of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing

> >about this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only

> >comment I can remember is she mentioned my " paranoia when I

> >shared an email " from my mother where I scoffed at my mother

> >saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

> >evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after

> >reading the name calling and accusations that I burglarized her

> >home further down the email. Now I'm even more confused than

> >ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this therapist,

> >isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that

> >it's true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the

> > " incorrect diagnosis " won't that raise alarms with the new

> >person, and I can never take my records to a new person. I have

> >to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks think?

> >And thank you for all feedback.

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Katrina we learn from our parents behaviours read about attachment disorder

first then read about being resillient cos mate we are all have had to be. Then

go back to your T and with what u know discuss it with her. Be assertive and if

u wanna cry do it its ok to do so. Man I have borderline traits but I am not a

BPD. How long have u been seeing your T for?

------------------------------

>I would def get a second opinion.

>

>

>> >I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with

>> >my therapist. Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis

>> >so I know what I'm working on, she gave me the diagnosis of

>> >BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that I meet five

>> >of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing

>> >about this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only

>> >comment I can remember is she mentioned my " paranoia when I

>> >shared an email " from my mother where I scoffed at my mother

>> >saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

>> >evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after

>> >reading the name calling and accusations that I burglarized her

>> >home further down the email. Now I'm even more confused than

>> >ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this therapist,

>> >isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that

>> >it's true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the

>> > " incorrect diagnosis " won't that raise alarms with the new

>> >person, and I can never take my records to a new person. I have

>> >to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks think?

>> >And thank you for all feedback.

>> >

>>

>> --

>> Katrina

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

How much experience does your therapist have with BPD? I mean, if she is an

expert I would think her words might carry weight. If not, I would think she

could be challenged. Is there any way to get, or suggest, you would like a

second opinion?? We do it with regular doctors, so why not therapists?

To be honest, I think diagnosis' are a relief. I can remember when I first

admitted I was an alcoholic. I was sad about it but glad that I finally had a

starting point of what part of my problems were. I could start getting answers

and solutions to what ails me. I also think it helped me to understand my

alcoholic mother more and start on the long journey of forgiveness. Took time

though and still I am not perfect at it.

>

> I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my therapist.

Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what I'm working on,

she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that

I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing about

this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only comment I can remember

is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an email " from my mother where I

scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name

calling and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this

therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's

true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis "

won't that raise alarms with the new person, and I can never take my records to

a new person. I have to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks

think? And thank you for all feedback.

>

[Guest guest]

Mimi,

I wrote in with basically the same question--do I have to leave this

group?--though I wasn't as direct as you have been. Remember that Ts are only

people and they have prejudices and make mistakes too. A second opinion is in

order here. The official diagnosis for me from 3 different Ts (when I was an

inpatient) was " no personality disorder " . The therapist I got when I got out

says I do have BPD. Therapists can forget that when we get upset or confused, we

can tend to fall back into our old ways of coping--the ones we learned from our

BP mothers. That makes us sound like one, but it's usually not coming from the

same place internally--the horrible, frantic fear that they feel when faced with

abandonment.

As far as your paranoia regarding your nada: So MANY people do NOT see what's

between the lines in a letter or conversation with a BP--even the so-called

experts. Several therapists have been charmed by my nada and they sent her home

with the idea that it wasn't her, it was all us children and the rest of the

world who was causing her problems. They're good at hiding. It's why all the

kids in the neighborhood--and their mothers--thought my nada was the 'coolest,

best mom' in the neighborhood while horrible abuse was going on inside. It's

why when I took exception to a veiled insult, our mother's friends would tell us

to 'stop hurting her'. It's why everyone in the family (including my dad)

turned against us. We are the wrong ones. We are the problem.

Because of the kind advice I have received here, I have decided that those of us

here are the only ones who can really label ourselves. If our anger at BPs on

this board doesn't trigger you when we go into specifics, you are probably okay.

If you know your behavior when you emulate your mother's problem-solving is in

need of re-thinking, you are probably okay. If your only sin is that you know

what venom lies beneath innocuous sounding words, you are okay.

Don't cry. Don't be upset. Do get a second opinion, no matter how much you

respect your therapist in other ways. People (even educated, caring ones) makes

mistakes.

" Another Mimi " ;-)

>

> I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my therapist.

Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what I'm working on,

she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that

I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing about

this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only comment I can remember

is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an email " from my mother where I

scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name

calling and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this

therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's

true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis "

won't that raise alarms with the new person, and I can never take my records to

a new person. I have to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks

think? And thank you for all feedback.

>

[Guest guest]

how scary...if my T told me I was Borderline...I would seriously look for

someone else to help me...because I know that I'm not wired like that. We may be

damaged, but there's a big difference. I would get a second opinion asap...until

then, go easy on yourself...be gentle and kind with your feelings...you have

been through so much already regarding this subject.

barrycove@...

[Guest guest]

When I was reading " Stop Walking on Eggshells " , I would come across passages

that would describe me.  But, I do realize that just because I exhibit a

behavior doesn't mean that I am BPD as well.  It just means that I learned that

behavior from my stepnada.  I have been in therapy for three years now, and my

therapist has never really classified me as anything.  The closest he came was

depression, but I told him that was hormonal and had nothing to do with how I

was feeling.  So, after my doctor got my hormones all fixed, I was able to

prove that I was right.  I guess I don't really think that therapists should

give a diagnosis....it makes me feel labeled. 

Janet

 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own

understanding.

 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

Proverbs 3:5-8

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:48 PM

Subject: Do I have to leave the group?

 

I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my therapist.

Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what I'm working on,

she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that

I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing about

this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only comment I can remember

is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an email " from my mother where I

scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name

calling and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this

therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's

true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis "

won't that raise alarms with

the new person, and I can never take my records to a new person. I have to

start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks think? And thank you for all

feedback.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mimi,

Good morning. Hopefully, you will get a second opinion as others have

encouraged you to do. I know how it feels to have your mother communicate that

she loves you and not be able to match her behavior with love. What is helping

me to better handle my nada expressing her love is that she loves the way she

loves and how she defines love. Additionally, her definition & expressions of

love are different from mine. Maybe that is what the therapist was thinking as

she read your mother's email.

Since you have actively sought the assistance of a therapist I would think like

any of us, you have borderline-ish behaviors and during times of tension or

stress they are present.

You may want to reflect if the therapist reminds you of your mother in any way.

If so, it is highly advisable to get a new therapist as you would project your

feelings about your mother onto the therapist, which in turn would have your

bp-ish behaviors more frequently expressed during therapy. I have read this

happen frequently.

Peace and Blessings,

MyReality67

>

> I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my therapist.

Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what I'm working on,

she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that

I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing about

this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only comment I can remember

is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an email " from my mother where I

scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name

calling and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this

therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's

true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis "

won't that raise alarms with the new person, and I can never take my records to

a new person. I have to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks

think? And thank you for all feedback.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mimi... I'm new here, but NOT new to BPD, etc... My first thought

was " fleas " , as this group so adequately labels them. The fact that you

are trying to review your actions and willing to consider the

possibility...isn't that something that BPs usually don't do? I find I

have " fleas " but I'm willing to take responsibility for my

actions...something to think about. How about getting a second opinion

with a therapist who specializes in BPD?

>

> I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my

therapist. Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know

what I'm working on, she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the

seven criteria and said that I meet five of those. I was totally caught

off guard. I've been stewing about this for a week, not knowing what to

think, and the only comment I can remember is she mentioned my " paranoia

when I shared an email " from my mother where I scoffed at my mother

saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but evidentally

my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name calling

and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or

leave this therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more

proof that it's true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the

" incorrect diagnosis " won't that raise alarms with the new person, and I

can never take my records to a new person. I have to start all over

again. I'm stuck! What do you folks think? And thank you for all

feedback.

>

[Guest guest]

I haven't read all of the posts, but how many times have we ALL feared we are

mirroring the behaviors of our BPD parents? Maybe you do have it, but you're

conquering the first hurdle -- admitting MAYBE you have some BPD traits, which

our BPD nadas never do. I, for one, would say no you should not leave the group

but face your demons positive or negative and help yourself and your loved ones.

I tell my husband and son every day to never hesitate to say something if they

see the same thing in me. I try to remain open knowing it is a VERY distinct

possibility. Stay strong and positive!

> >

> > I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my therapist.

Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what I'm working on,

she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that

I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing about

this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only comment I can remember

is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an email " from my mother where I

scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name

calling and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this

therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's

true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis "

won't that raise alarms with the new person, and I can never take my records to

a new person. I have to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks

think? And thank you for all feedback.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I haven't read all of the posts, but how many times have we ALL feared we are

mirroring the behaviors of our BPD parents? Maybe you do have it, but you're

conquering the first hurdle -- admitting MAYBE you have some BPD traits, which

our BPD nadas never do. I, for one, would say no you should not leave the group

but face your demons positive or negative and help yourself and your loved ones.

I tell my husband and son every day to never hesitate to say something if they

see the same thing in me. I try to remain open knowing it is a VERY distinct

possibility. Stay strong and positive!

> >

> > I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my therapist.

Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what I'm working on,

she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that

I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing about

this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only comment I can remember

is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an email " from my mother where I

scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name

calling and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this

therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's

true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis "

won't that raise alarms with the new person, and I can never take my records to

a new person. I have to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks

think? And thank you for all feedback.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thinking back to the pre-therapy person I was 20 years ago, I was a FLEA ridden

mess. But one by one I replaced the dysfunctional coping mechanisms I learned in

my FOO. There was a time when I'm sure I could have been diagnosed OCD, Type A

Stress control freak, avoidant, immature, co-dependent and likely BPD.

When I asked my T if I was BPD, she giggled and said " No, and do you know why?

Because you always think everything is your fault and try to fix it. Trust me,

BPD's never willingly accept responsibility for the messes they make. "

So, don't mistake the FLEAS for being more than learned behaviors. Your job is

to ID them and decide if they are fuctional behaviors or not.

>

> I'm only half-way joking. I've posted before about issues with my therapist.

Well now, after I pressured her for a diagnosis so I know what I'm working on,

she gave me the diagnosis of BPD! She read off the seven criteria and said that

I meet five of those. I was totally caught off guard. I've been stewing about

this for a week, not knowing what to think, and the only comment I can remember

is she mentioned my " paranoia when I shared an email " from my mother where I

scoffed at my mother saying " She cared about me. " *I* know what that means, but

evidentally my therapist took her word for it, even after reading the name

calling and accusations that I burglarized her home further down the email. Now

I'm even more confused than ever. If I resist this diagnosis and/or leave this

therapist, isn't that what a BPD would do, and therefore more proof that it's

true?! Or, if I do get a new therapist and mention the " incorrect diagnosis "

won't that raise alarms with the new person, and I can never take my records to

a new person. I have to start all over again. I'm stuck! What do you folks

think? And thank you for all feedback.

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