Another Newbie

[Guest guest]

Hi, I am Saranda-Jane. I am thirty years young, single, recovering alcoholic

(18 months sober) and a daughter of two parents that have BDP traits. I live at

home with them, the only time I have been away from my parents (I am an only

child) was when I was at college and graduate school, but I was in constant

contact with them and they had to know where I was at every moment. I am

currently in therapy and the better I get the worse it is as home for me. I

have put my life on hold to take care of my parents and try to get them better.

My last attempt was a complete disaster, I took my mother to see my therapist

with me and when she reams me out about it now it was like we were in two

different sessions. Sometimes I feel like I life in a different dimension than

my parents.

After the huge blow up last night, my father was a rage monster and my mother

walked that fine line between rage and hysteria I have decided to move out. I

cannot take it anymore on one hand, but on the other hand I am terrified to

leave. My parents currently work with a local dog rescue and we have a house

full of rescued dogs (5 to be exact, but one of them is my pit bull mix R.).

Each of the dogs have some sort of mental or physical illness/disability and the

house is full of behavioral issues my parents refuse to address properly (in my

opinion). My parents threaten to kill the dogs and rage at them to correct

their behavior and so far that has not worked. My mother even went off the deep

end over a year ago and hit the dogs with the first thing she could get her

hands on and that was (thankfully) a sleeve of Styrofoam cups. I am afraid if I

leave something will happen to the dogs or that my mother will go through with

her threat to commit suicide. They present such a perfect image to the outside

world that no one will ever believe the Hell that goes on behind closed doors. I

also feel guilty because when I leave (and take my dog) I want nothing to do

with them for a while. I just want a break from all the chaos and the crisis'

that I have been enmeshed with for the past thirty years. I know that my

parents are ill and I do my best to detach and have compassion for them, but

there is this part of me that just does want a break. I am physically,

emotionally and mentally exhausted from living in this war zone. Has anyone

been in a situation like this before and can share their story with me? I feel

isolated and very alone right now. Sorry for being so needy.

S-J

[Guest guest]

Hi Sarana-Jane,

Welcome!

Congratulations on 18 months of sobriety. Do you attend AA or similar meetings?

The family structure of bpds can be very similar to alcoholics, and I think they

could offer support in dealing with your parents' illness. The bottom line is

that they will seek out the resources they need to heal when they are ready to

heal. Right now, they don't want to and are choosing not to. Trying to rescue

them won't help. It usually just makes it easier for them to stay sick.

They also don't want you to get better, unfortunately. As long as you are

unwell, you are able to provide valuable services to them--providing supply,

being an audience to their theater of histrionics, rescuing them from the

consequences of their behavior. and so on.

I completely understand about the dogs. However, except for the pit bull mix,

they are their dogs and not your dogs (it sounds like to me). Make a call if

you suspect abuse or neglect, but don't let them use the dogs to keep you

captive in their house. Think about what you would do if the dogs belonged to

someone else. I imagine you would do something, but you wouldn't move in.

I completely understand how painful it is to have parents threaten to kill or

harm animals you love. My parents " gave away " or euthanized nearly all of my

childhood pets. It's the lowest blow possible and an intimate form of betrayal.

It just hurts.

At any rate, I can only suggest you follow the airplane advice and put on your

own oxygen mask first. Then see what you can do for the dogs.

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

COngratulations on 18 months, that's really something.  Are there any other

local dog rescues you could contact about the situation. As a former foster home

they're not doing the dogs any favors if they're not actively trying to correct

the problems and I'm surprised the rescue allows them to continue.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:33 AM

Subject: Another Newbie

 

Hi, I am Saranda-Jane. I am thirty years young, single, recovering alcoholic

(18 months sober) and a daughter of two parents that have BDP traits. I live at

home with them, the only time I have been away from my parents (I am an only

child) was when I was at college and graduate school, but I was in constant

contact with them and they had to know where I was at every moment. I am

currently in therapy and the better I get the worse it is as home for me. I

have put my life on hold to take care of my parents and try to get them better.

My last attempt was a complete disaster, I took my mother to see my therapist

with me and when she reams me out about it now it was like we were in two

different sessions. Sometimes I feel like I life in a different dimension than

my parents.

After the huge blow up last night, my father was a rage monster and my mother

walked that fine line between rage and hysteria I have decided to move out. I

cannot take it anymore on one hand, but on the other hand I am terrified to

leave. My parents currently work with a local dog rescue and we have a house

full of rescued dogs (5 to be exact, but one of them is my pit bull mix R.).

Each of the dogs have some sort of mental or physical illness/disability and the

house is full of behavioral issues my parents refuse to address properly (in my

opinion). My parents threaten to kill the dogs and rage at them to correct

their behavior and so far that has not worked. My mother even went off the deep

end over a year ago and hit the dogs with the first thing she could get her

hands on and that was (thankfully) a sleeve of Styrofoam cups. I am afraid if I

leave something will happen to the dogs or that my mother will go through with

her threat to commit

suicide. They present such a perfect image to the outside world that no one

will ever believe the Hell that goes on behind closed doors. I also feel guilty

because when I leave (and take my dog) I want nothing to do with them for a

while. I just want a break from all the chaos and the crisis' that I have been

enmeshed with for the past thirty years. I know that my parents are ill and I

do my best to detach and have compassion for them, but there is this part of me

that just does want a break. I am physically, emotionally and mentally

exhausted from living in this war zone. Has anyone been in a situation like

this before and can share their story with me? I feel isolated and very alone

right now. Sorry for being so needy.

S-J

[Guest guest]

Wow, Saranda-Jane, 18 months sober is wonderful!! Congrats!! Do you also have

sponser that can help you with the transition of moving?? You are one

courageous person for staying in that situation AND staying sober!! God bless

you. Keep up the good work.

>

> Hi, I am Saranda-Jane. I am thirty years young, single, recovering alcoholic

(18 months sober) and a daughter of two parents that have BDP traits. I live at

home with them, the only time I have been away from my parents (I am an only

child) was when I was at college and graduate school, but I was in constant

contact with them and they had to know where I was at every moment. I am

currently in therapy and the better I get the worse it is as home for me. I

have put my life on hold to take care of my parents and try to get them better.

My last attempt was a complete disaster, I took my mother to see my therapist

with me and when she reams me out about it now it was like we were in two

different sessions. Sometimes I feel like I life in a different dimension than

my parents.

>

> After the huge blow up last night, my father was a rage monster and my mother

walked that fine line between rage and hysteria I have decided to move out. I

cannot take it anymore on one hand, but on the other hand I am terrified to

leave. My parents currently work with a local dog rescue and we have a house

full of rescued dogs (5 to be exact, but one of them is my pit bull mix R.).

Each of the dogs have some sort of mental or physical illness/disability and the

house is full of behavioral issues my parents refuse to address properly (in my

opinion). My parents threaten to kill the dogs and rage at them to correct

their behavior and so far that has not worked. My mother even went off the deep

end over a year ago and hit the dogs with the first thing she could get her

hands on and that was (thankfully) a sleeve of Styrofoam cups. I am afraid if I

leave something will happen to the dogs or that my mother will go through with

her threat to commit suicide. They present such a perfect image to the outside

world that no one will ever believe the Hell that goes on behind closed doors. I

also feel guilty because when I leave (and take my dog) I want nothing to do

with them for a while. I just want a break from all the chaos and the crisis'

that I have been enmeshed with for the past thirty years. I know that my

parents are ill and I do my best to detach and have compassion for them, but

there is this part of me that just does want a break. I am physically,

emotionally and mentally exhausted from living in this war zone. Has anyone

been in a situation like this before and can share their story with me? I feel

isolated and very alone right now. Sorry for being so needy.

> S-J

>

[Guest guest]

Dear S J, Get " Boundaries " by Dr.'s Cloud & Townsend. It will teach u how

to recover from the chaos, be able to set boundaries in a kind but firm

way and not feel guilty about it. You described my life with nada and fada

very well.....war zone sums it up pretty well. My role in their chaos was

to be the peacemaker/keeper. The book will also teach you that it's

perfectly fine to say " no " when u need to and not feel guilty. My heart

goes out to you, truly. Get the book soon. Get your life back. It

is, by the way, YOUR life.....not theirs (as I was taught to be the

faithful, obedient and loyal daughter no matter what hell was going on).

It's

not healthy to live that way.

As far as the dogs; I've been a dog lover and a dog groomer for 28 years.

I would call the authorities anonymously to get the dogs help and get

them out of that hell. They are doing to the dogs what they have done to

you. It's only going to make the dogs feel insecure and unadoptable to

anyone else. Laurie

In a message dated 7/24/2012 9:34:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

tomandfran1605@... writes:

Wow, Saranda-Jane, 18 months sober is wonderful!! Congrats!! Do you also

have sponser that can help you with the transition of moving?? You are one

courageous person for staying in that situation AND staying sober!! God bless

you. Keep up the good work.

>

> Hi, I am Saranda-Jane. I am thirty years young, single, recovering

alcoholic (18 months sober) and a daughter of two parents that have BDP traits.

I live at home with them, the only time I have been away from my parents (I

am an only child) was when I was at college and graduate school, but I was

in constant contact with them and they had to know where I was at every

moment. I am currently in therapy and the better I get the worse it is as

home for me. I have put my life on hold to take care of my parents and try to

get them better. My last attempt was a complete disaster, I took my mother

to see my therapist with me and when she reams me out about it now it was

like we were in two different sessions. Sometimes I feel like I life in a

different dimension than my parents.

>

> After the huge blow up last night, my father was a rage monster and my

mother walked that fine line between rage and hysteria I have decided to

move out. I cannot take it anymore on one hand, but on the other hand I am

terrified to leave. My parents currently work with a local dog rescue and we

have a house full of rescued dogs (5 to be exact, but one of them is my pit

bull mix R.). Each of the dogs have some sort of mental or physical

illness/disability and the house is full of behavioral issues my parents refuse

to

address properly (in my opinion). My parents threaten to kill the dogs and

rage at them to correct their behavior and so far that has not worked. My

mother even went off the deep end over a year ago and hit the dogs with the

first thing she could get her hands on and that was (thankfully) a sleeve

of Styrofoam cups. I am afraid if I leave something will happen to the dogs

or that my mother will go through with her threat to commit suicide. They

presen t such a perfect image to the outside world that no one will ever

believe the Hell that goes on behind closed doors. I also feel guilty because

when I leave (and take my dog) I want nothing to do with them for a while.

I just want a break from all the chaos and the crisis' that I have been

enmeshed with for the past thirty years. I know that my parents are ill and I

do my best to detach and have compassion for them, but there is this part

of me that just does want a break. I am physically, emotionally and mentally

exhausted from living in this war zone. Has anyone been in a situation

like this before and can share their story with me? I feel isolated and very

alone right now. Sorry for being so needy.

> S-J

>

[Guest guest]

I used to have a sponsor and was involved with AA, but... well... do you believe

in the law of attraction? I found what I thought was a great sponsor, who had

tons of sponsorees and we were like a close knit family. We went to meetings

every day together as a group and were in constant communication throughout the

day, which was great when I first got sober but then as I started to pull away

and want some privacy... things got bad. My sponsor, who was going through a

separation from her third husband, she got increasingly clingy and controlling.

It was like having my mother as my sponsor and the more I tried to establish

myself the worse our relationship got. About three months ago I quit as her

sponsoree and left local AA all together. I just got tired of all the drama.

AA was starting to be a warzone like my home.

I do not know if my sponsor has BDP traits or just has some control issues (ok

major control issues) but I seem to attract people in my life that are like my

parents. I wonder if I have " please control me and treat me like s**t " stamped

on my forehead and I just do not see it. Can you check for me?

> >

> > Hi, I am Saranda-Jane. I am thirty years young, single, recovering

alcoholic (18 months sober) and a daughter of two parents that have BDP traits.

I live at home with them, the only time I have been away from my parents (I am

an only child) was when I was at college and graduate school, but I was in

constant contact with them and they had to know where I was at every moment. I

am currently in therapy and the better I get the worse it is as home for me. I

have put my life on hold to take care of my parents and try to get them better.

My last attempt was a complete disaster, I took my mother to see my therapist

with me and when she reams me out about it now it was like we were in two

different sessions. Sometimes I feel like I life in a different dimension than

my parents.

> >

> > After the huge blow up last night, my father was a rage monster and my

mother walked that fine line between rage and hysteria I have decided to move

out. I cannot take it anymore on one hand, but on the other hand I am terrified

to leave. My parents currently work with a local dog rescue and we have a house

full of rescued dogs (5 to be exact, but one of them is my pit bull mix R.).

Each of the dogs have some sort of mental or physical illness/disability and the

house is full of behavioral issues my parents refuse to address properly (in my

opinion). My parents threaten to kill the dogs and rage at them to correct

their behavior and so far that has not worked. My mother even went off the deep

end over a year ago and hit the dogs with the first thing she could get her

hands on and that was (thankfully) a sleeve of Styrofoam cups. I am afraid if I

leave something will happen to the dogs or that my mother will go through with

her threat to commit suicide. They present such a perfect image to the outside

world that no one will ever believe the Hell that goes on behind closed doors. I

also feel guilty because when I leave (and take my dog) I want nothing to do

with them for a while. I just want a break from all the chaos and the crisis'

that I have been enmeshed with for the past thirty years. I know that my

parents are ill and I do my best to detach and have compassion for them, but

there is this part of me that just does want a break. I am physically,

emotionally and mentally exhausted from living in this war zone. Has anyone

been in a situation like this before and can share their story with me? I feel

isolated and very alone right now. Sorry for being so needy.

> > S-J

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, I didn't expect anyone to respond to my post that fast. Hi, Ashana, it's

nice to meet you. I used to attend AA regularly for the first 14 months of my

soberity, but I ended up with a sponsor who was amazing at first, but as I

started to get better I realized that she had a lot of my mother's traits. She

was controlling, clingy and manipulative so I quit being her sponsor and stopped

going to AA. My sponsor is very heavily involved in local AA and I was just

tired of the drama. When I quit my sponsor suddenly all my AA friends

disappeared and I am trying to get over that hurt. I used to attend Al-Anon as

well because my parents are both heavy drinkers, to quote my mother she says

that the booze fills that void inside of her. Right now, I just work my 3

parttime jobs, take care of the dogs and play my facebook games. I was trying

to save up money to pay off my car and then save toward a downpayment on a

condo, but that has fallen through. My parents have (in my opinion) not taken

proper care of the house and it is now falling apart. I am spending my money of

getting things fixed to make things a bit more bearable since they calim not to

have the money since my father lost his job. They don't have the money for that

but take 3-4 day vacations to Atlantic City to drink and gamble. Sorry, I am

still a little sore about that.

Yes, the pit bull is my dog. They each have a dog and the other two are foster

dogs for a local rescue. My father sits on the board of the rescue or else I

may be tempted to call them to get the two fosters out of here. This life style

cannot be good for them either. I have always put myself between my parents and

the dogs, but you are right. It just hurts me to see them suffer, but I am so

afraid that no one will rescue them when I leave. I have " sucker for dogs "

tattooed on my forehead. It's one of the few triggers that I have that

knee-jerk reaction to.

Putting myself before the dogs feel very strange and uncomfortable, but since

you are a dog person and been down a simliar road I will trust you. Did I

mention this feels uncomfortable?

S-J

>

> Hi Sarana-Jane,

>

> Welcome!

>

> Congratulations on 18 months of sobriety. Do you attend AA or similar

meetings? The family structure of bpds can be very similar to alcoholics, and I

think they could offer support in dealing with your parents' illness. The

bottom line is that they will seek out the resources they need to heal when they

are ready to heal. Right now, they don't want to and are choosing not to.

Trying to rescue them won't help. It usually just makes it easier for them to

stay sick.

>

> They also don't want you to get better, unfortunately. As long as you are

unwell, you are able to provide valuable services to them--providing supply,

being an audience to their theater of histrionics, rescuing them from the

consequences of their behavior. and so on.

>

> I completely understand about the dogs. However, except for the pit bull mix,

they are their dogs and not your dogs (it sounds like to me). Make a call if

you suspect abuse or neglect, but don't let them use the dogs to keep you

captive in their house. Think about what you would do if the dogs belonged to

someone else. I imagine you would do something, but you wouldn't move in.

>

> I completely understand how painful it is to have parents threaten to kill or

harm animals you love. My parents " gave away " or euthanized nearly all of my

childhood pets. It's the lowest blow possible and an intimate form of betrayal.

It just hurts.

>

> At any rate, I can only suggest you follow the airplane advice and put on your

own oxygen mask first. Then see what you can do for the dogs.

>

> Take care,

> Ashana

>

[Guest guest]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 11:09 AM, morganofthesea morganofthesea@...>wrote

>

>

> I do not know if my sponsor has BDP traits or just has some control issues

> (ok major control issues) but I seem to attract people in my life that are

> like my parents. I wonder if I have " please control me and treat me like

> s**t " stamped on my forehead and I just do not see it. Can you check for

> me?

>

Hi --

This has actually been something of a question in my own life. I don't

really have an answer for you, but I think there's been some research done

showing that people tend to gravitate toward what is FAMILIAR to them, even

if it isn't actually GOOD for them. I think that for abused kids, we have

a tendency to regard emotionally questionable people as " normal " and simply

don't see the red flags that people raised in more stable/normal homes

instinctively react to and know to avoid. That tends to " target " us -- as

in, we don't move away fast enough and we get glommed onto -- and then we

wonder how the icky person realized we were such a chump. There's a

category of psych thinking called " schema therapy " that believes we do in

fact sort of have " please control me " stamped on us because we have been

programmed with behaviors that controlling folks simply unconsciously

recognize and gravitate toward. Becoming aware of these behaviors and

breaking them can be a tough chore!

Another possibility is what I think of as the " shotgun " approach. This is

sort of like the con artist technique where the con artist targets a huge

pool of people for his initial con, and then concentrates his further nasty

attentions on people who didn't send him packing the first time. Each time

he does something mildly questionable, some people send him packing, and

the pool of people he pays attention to gets a little smaller, until he's

down to just a few " marks " that he knows he can take for a bundle. So the

controllers might just be trying to control EVERYONE, and we " repeat

customers " are those folks who have simply been conditioned by our

upbringing to not move away fast enough. The controllers come after us

because we don't know enough to go " No, thanks! " quite firmly at the

earlier stages, and everyone ELSE has already left! Who else are they

going to try to control? In this case, we're not saying " please control

me " -- we're just not putting our feet down firmly enough and early enough

to give the unmistakable message that we are NOT to be messed with!

As a third factor to consider, I know that I often have a problem with

wanting much too badly to be liked. This is probably a leftover from my

crappy kid-hood with an unpleasable mother, as a guess. This has a tendency

to cause me to respond favorably to positive attention from others, even if

the " other " in question is not sincere. Quasi-desperation can make us

vulnerable to shady offers of emotional support that people with better

lifetime support systems can turn down without a second thought.

As for AA, I'm involved with Al Anon, and I semi-regularly attend no less

than three weekly meetings in my area. Just last Friday one of the women

at the first meeting I ever attended pulled a completely out-of-line

controlling move on me, and then looked shocked when I told her in no

uncertain terms to knock it the Hell off, and walked out of the meeting. I

mentioned this at a different meeting and was told, 'Oh, you met a

Bleeding Deacon! " Turns out this is a common disease among twelve-steppers,

where someone has been " working the program " for a while and decides that

they are definitely an expert and know EXACTLY how everyone else " should

be " doing it. Mix that attitude with some control freakishness, and you get

problems! Of course, it still left me wondering if somehow I had

" signaled " to this woman that I was susceptible to her behavior, and that

was why she looked so shocked when I told her off about it. But as usual I

don't know if I " signaled " it, or if she just does that to everyone new who

shows up after they've been there a little bit (I'd only been there six

weeks.) It's telling that that particular meeting has had exactly two

people in it for quite a while now while the other meetings in the area

have grown or stayed stable at a larger size -- this leads me to suspect

that she tries it on everyone and people generally just leave without

telling her why, and what shocked her in my case what that I actually told

her how far out of line she was instead of smiling politely and then just

never coming back again.

So, do we have a " stamp " on our foreheads, or is it just that we put up

with controlling behavior (this woman had exhibited quite a bit before but

I had ignored it) longer than most people, leading them to behave more

egregiously? Are we MORE sensitive to it (so it bothers us more than it

does other folks) or LESS sensitive (so that we don't nip it in the bud or

leave before they get their hooks into us)?

I don't have any answers but I've sure thought about it a lot....if that

helps any.

-- Jen H.