DIL BP

[Guest guest]

Hi, everyone!

My son is coming over to see us alone (my DIL has to work) this weekend after

his wife changed the plans for the whole family yet again, inconveniencing us

all. (It's complicated and has to do with us being unable to see our grand kid

unless we play it her way.) He's bringing our grand child to stay with us, but I

sense he wants to talk to us too. He knows all about BPD, believe me, because

he saw my nada and my fisherman father at work his entire young life. He saw

how unhappy I was.

My question is this: If he brings up the fact that is wife is volatile and hard

to deal with and always gets her own way, should I say the borderline word? I

can't believe he doesn't see it in her, but sometimes I think he really doesn't.

He may be in denial. He hates my nada and sure doesn't want his wife to be a

BP, but he did, indeed, pick one.

What do you guys think?

Mimi

[Guest guest]

Mimi,

Sometimes it is hardest to see what is right in front of us. He

may be too busy coping with her behavior to be able to take a

step back and see the whole picture well enough to put a label

on it. If he brings up the subject I think you can mention it in

a soft way. Maybe ask him if he thinks that could be what is

going on with her. If your comments feel to harsh to him he may

feel he needs to defend her even though he's not happy about

what is happening.

At 08:22 AM 07/27/2012 foggy_mimi wrote:

>Hi, everyone!

>My son is coming over to see us alone (my DIL has to work) this

>weekend after his wife changed the plans for the whole family

>yet again, inconveniencing us all. (It's complicated and has

>to do with us being unable to see our grand kid unless we play

>it her way.) He's bringing our grand child to stay with us, but

>I sense he wants to talk to us too. He knows all about BPD,

>believe me, because he saw my nada and my fisherman father at

>work his entire young life. He saw how unhappy I was.

>

>My question is this: If he brings up the fact that is wife is

>volatile and hard to deal with and always gets her own way,

>should I say the borderline word? I can't believe he doesn't

>see it in her, but sometimes I think he really doesn't. He may

>be in denial. He hates my nada and sure doesn't want his wife

>to be a BP, but he did, indeed, pick one.

>

>What do you guys think?

>Mimi

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

This is a tough one because you want to help him but not scare him away from

coming to you with these issues. I would try if he seems receptive. If he is not

receptive to the " she might have BPD talk " I would maybe try to give him some

advice about setting boundaries and dealing with the behaviors. My heart goes

out to you. At the very least I hope you have a wonderful time with your

grandchild.

Do you have a T? If so this would be a great question to ask him/her.

>

> Hi, everyone!

> My son is coming over to see us alone (my DIL has to work) this weekend after

his wife changed the plans for the whole family yet again, inconveniencing us

all. (It's complicated and has to do with us being unable to see our grand kid

unless we play it her way.) He's bringing our grand child to stay with us, but I

sense he wants to talk to us too. He knows all about BPD, believe me, because

he saw my nada and my fisherman father at work his entire young life. He saw

how unhappy I was.

>

> My question is this: If he brings up the fact that is wife is volatile and

hard to deal with and always gets her own way, should I say the borderline word?

I can't believe he doesn't see it in her, but sometimes I think he really

doesn't. He may be in denial. He hates my nada and sure doesn't want his wife

to be a BP, but he did, indeed, pick one.

>

> What do you guys think?

> Mimi

>

[Guest guest]

Hi foggymimi,

If I were in this situation, I'd stay as far away from it as possible. For one,

bpds usually have extremely enmeshed relationships with significant others.

Anything you say to your son will most likely go directly back to dil. Recall

how upsetting you found the label? Imagine how dil will react (especially if

she really is bpd) when she hears this word from her husband? Secondly, what

helps people in relationships with bpds is often not a particular label, but

validation and support. If he brings up how volatile his wife is, I might just

validate the feelings and experiences that could go along with it: " That must be

really stressful for you... " He will come to his own conclusions about it in

his own time. Finally, his relationship with his wife is really not your

business. I would resist the invitation to triangulate. Nothing good ever

comes of inserting yourself into your children's relationships with their

partners, even if they seem to want it. They don't.

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

I agree, this is a very sensitive situation and fraught with pitfalls. The

reality is that your son's wife has all the power, legally and emotionally, over

him and their relationship. He is bonded to her, and they have a child/children

together. If you try to advise your son about his wife's (possibly/probably)

having a personality disorder, but then somehow they manage to have a

breakthrough of positive change in their relationship, *then you will be the

enemy of both of them*, in their eyes.

Since those with bpd tend to view others as either all bad or all good, its

likely that your son will experience many episodes of breakup and then

reconciliation with his wife, on that roller coaster.

I agree that its better to not approach this without first talking with your

therapist about it.

My guess is that your therapist will advise you to remain neutral and

non-judgemental/non-blaming RE their relationship, and avoid bringing up the

subject of personality disorder. I personally wouldn't offer anything more

than " Maybe marriage counseling or couple's therapy would help you guys learn

healthier ways to relate to and communicate with each other that are more

positive? "

If you dare, though, and can be very low-key about it, perhaps you might buy

the " Essential Family Guide to Borderline PD " and/or its workbook, and just

leave them out in the open at your place where he can see them. But you don't

mention that you bought it for him, just say its a book about interesting and

effective ways of handling difficult situations that you are studying.

Of course, if you truly believe and have seen evidence that there is physical or

emotional abuse or neglect of the children going on, that's different. Be sure

to let your therapist know if you suspect or have evidence that the kids are

being mistreated; your therapist is a mandated reporter.

Best of luck with this.

-Annie

> >

> > Hi, everyone!

> > My son is coming over to see us alone (my DIL has to work) this weekend

after his wife changed the plans for the whole family yet again, inconveniencing

us all. (It's complicated and has to do with us being unable to see our grand

kid unless we play it her way.) He's bringing our grand child to stay with us,

but I sense he wants to talk to us too. He knows all about BPD, believe me,

because he saw my nada and my fisherman father at work his entire young life.

He saw how unhappy I was.

> >

> > My question is this: If he brings up the fact that is wife is volatile and

hard to deal with and always gets her own way, should I say the borderline word?

I can't believe he doesn't see it in her, but sometimes I think he really

doesn't. He may be in denial. He hates my nada and sure doesn't want his wife

to be a BP, but he did, indeed, pick one.

> >

> > What do you guys think?

> > Mimi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, everyone. I am totally afraid that my son will tell DIL whatever I say

at some point down the road. Her horrible anger has already caused one break-up

in our entire family, one that was so prolonged and so horrific that it took us

two years to recover from it.

My son is totally confused. All he does is study books on anger and how to

interact with people. He knows something is terribly wrong, but I don't think

he's put a name to it yet. If he were ever to label her BP, she wouldn't

believe him, but she would probably blame me. She's been told many times by

doctors that she needs therapy and even meds. They have gone to couple's

counseling. She expected the T to be totally on her side. Of course, she was

not.

Yes, I do have a T of my own and I will run this all by her. I did mention to

her that my grand child is having dissociative episodes. I saw her have one

last week when I was at her house. She said that it's the first line of defense

for kids having a hard time. I talked to my previous T about what I believe is

emotional abuse (my opinion: how a kid is coping and acting indicates what kind

of treatment they're getting at home), but she said it's very hard to prove

emotional abuse unless it's really bad. No physical abuse has gone on.

But the kids have a lot KO stuff: exaggerated startle response, tummy aches,

lying, low self-esteem, and trying to keep the mother placated.

Thank you all for the advice. I will try and play this smart. I just hope I

don't lose my temper. I've been mad at her for 15 years.

Mimi

[Guest guest]

(((((foggy_mimi))))) (that's a big virtual hug.)

Then that is a worthy goal: to play it cool and remain neutral/non-judgemental

RE your son's marriage relationship issues, so that you can spend time with

your grandkids. Children need a stable, rational, caring adult in their lives

who is able to focus on their needs and feelings: an adult who can give them

attention, the appropriate mirroring and self-esteem that they need so

desperately and (probably) are not getting from either of their parents.

Your son is an adult and responsible for his own life choices; your grandkids

are small and abjectly dependent at this point in their lives, they have no

choices, no control over how their parents behave or treat them, no power to ask

for better treatment and no power to just leave.

But you can be like a bright candle in the dark for these kids if you can remain

in their lives. Their ability to withstand the bewildering and traumatizing

emotional abuse and emotional neglect they are (likely) enduring is going to be

bolstered by having you in their lives. There are actually studies that show

this: that if a child has at least one adult they can safely trust and love, who

gives them love and attention in return, it really makes a difference to the

child's resilience.

It won't be easy to remain just neutral and non-judgmental about their parents

while you give positive, supportive, validating attention to the grandkids, but,

its possible.

And yes, it is both sad and frustrating and even tragic that children have to be

extremely, severely, blatantly and chronically abused before anything can be

done to help them, legally. That is a real flaw in our current social system,

seems to me.

-Annie

>

> Thanks, everyone. I am totally afraid that my son will tell DIL whatever I

say at some point down the road. Her horrible anger has already caused one

break-up in our entire family, one that was so prolonged and so horrific that it

took us two years to recover from it.

>

> My son is totally confused. All he does is study books on anger and how to

interact with people. He knows something is terribly wrong, but I don't think

he's put a name to it yet. If he were ever to label her BP, she wouldn't

believe him, but she would probably blame me. She's been told many times by

doctors that she needs therapy and even meds. They have gone to couple's

counseling. She expected the T to be totally on her side. Of course, she was

not.

>

> Yes, I do have a T of my own and I will run this all by her. I did mention to

her that my grand child is having dissociative episodes. I saw her have one

last week when I was at her house. She said that it's the first line of defense

for kids having a hard time. I talked to my previous T about what I believe is

emotional abuse (my opinion: how a kid is coping and acting indicates what kind

of treatment they're getting at home), but she said it's very hard to prove

emotional abuse unless it's really bad. No physical abuse has gone on.

>

> But the kids have a lot KO stuff: exaggerated startle response, tummy aches,

lying, low self-esteem, and trying to keep the mother placated.

>

> Thank you all for the advice. I will try and play this smart. I just hope I

don't lose my temper. I've been mad at her for 15 years.

> Mimi

>

[Guest guest]

(((((foggy_mimi))))) (that's a big virtual hug.)

Then that is a worthy goal: to play it cool and remain neutral/non-judgemental

RE your son's marriage relationship issues, so that you can spend time with

your grandkids. Children need a stable, rational, caring adult in their lives

who is able to focus on their needs and feelings: an adult who can give them

attention, the appropriate mirroring and self-esteem that they need so

desperately and (probably) are not getting from either of their parents.

Your son is an adult and responsible for his own life choices; your grandkids

are small and abjectly dependent at this point in their lives, they have no

choices, no control over how their parents behave or treat them, no power to ask

for better treatment and no power to just leave.

But you can be like a bright candle in the dark for these kids if you can remain

in their lives. Their ability to withstand the bewildering and traumatizing

emotional abuse and emotional neglect they are (likely) enduring is going to be

bolstered by having you in their lives. There are actually studies that show

this: that if a child has at least one adult they can safely trust and love, who

gives them love and attention in return, it really makes a difference to the

child's resilience.

It won't be easy to remain just neutral and non-judgmental about their parents

while you give positive, supportive, validating attention to the grandkids, but,

its possible.

And yes, it is both sad and frustrating and even tragic that children have to be

extremely, severely, blatantly and chronically abused before anything can be

done to help them, legally. That is a real flaw in our current social system,

seems to me.

-Annie

>

> Thanks, everyone. I am totally afraid that my son will tell DIL whatever I

say at some point down the road. Her horrible anger has already caused one

break-up in our entire family, one that was so prolonged and so horrific that it

took us two years to recover from it.

>

> My son is totally confused. All he does is study books on anger and how to

interact with people. He knows something is terribly wrong, but I don't think

he's put a name to it yet. If he were ever to label her BP, she wouldn't

believe him, but she would probably blame me. She's been told many times by

doctors that she needs therapy and even meds. They have gone to couple's

counseling. She expected the T to be totally on her side. Of course, she was

not.

>

> Yes, I do have a T of my own and I will run this all by her. I did mention to

her that my grand child is having dissociative episodes. I saw her have one

last week when I was at her house. She said that it's the first line of defense

for kids having a hard time. I talked to my previous T about what I believe is

emotional abuse (my opinion: how a kid is coping and acting indicates what kind

of treatment they're getting at home), but she said it's very hard to prove

emotional abuse unless it's really bad. No physical abuse has gone on.

>

> But the kids have a lot KO stuff: exaggerated startle response, tummy aches,

lying, low self-esteem, and trying to keep the mother placated.

>

> Thank you all for the advice. I will try and play this smart. I just hope I

don't lose my temper. I've been mad at her for 15 years.

> Mimi

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

Thanks for the hug. I need it, I'm exhausted! My grand daughter is here and

has been since Saturday. My son did come over and we had a nice talk. He's sad

inside and I think he finally realizes what he's up against. I treated him

sympathetically. I've also loved someone with BPD. It's hard.

I've talked to my grand daughter. She consistently says, without prompting,

that her dad is kind and protective of her. She also says that her mother is

not so " mean " now that her dad is telecommuting. I'm assuming/hoping that it's

his influence on the household.

However, my GD whispers when she talks about her mom. All here know how

paranoid one gets about the all-seeing nada. The poor kid has been overwhelmed

at times here (we have a lot of neighborhood kids who love her) because she gets

confused on how to act and react. Her mother is so rigid and encourages her to

be so also, so like many of us here, her moral compass tells her to do one thing

while the all powerful nada tells her to buck up and do another. My DH and I

talked her down and she is exhausted from the effort, but I can say this has

been a successful few days for her.

Thanks again for the support I received here. I thought about what everyone

said and kept my own counsel. You guys are right. He will talk about it when

he's ready. It now stands between us, unspoken, like an elephant in the room,

but will have to remain so until he can actually say it out loud.

mimi

>

> (((((foggy_mimi))))) (that's a big virtual hug.)

>

> Then that is a worthy goal: to play it cool and remain

neutral/non-judgemental RE your son's marriage relationship issues, so that you

can spend time with your grandkids. Children need a stable, rational, caring

adult in their lives who is able to focus on their needs and feelings: an adult

who can give them attention, the appropriate mirroring and self-esteem that they

need so desperately and (probably) are not getting from either of their parents.

>

> Your son is an adult and responsible for his own life choices; your grandkids

are small and abjectly dependent at this point in their lives, they have no

choices, no control over how their parents behave or treat them, no power to ask

for better treatment and no power to just leave.

>

> But you can be like a bright candle in the dark for these kids if you can

remain in their lives. Their ability to withstand the bewildering and

traumatizing emotional abuse and emotional neglect they are (likely) enduring is

going to be bolstered by having you in their lives. There are actually studies

that show this: that if a child has at least one adult they can safely trust and

love, who gives them love and attention in return, it really makes a difference

to the child's resilience.

>

> It won't be easy to remain just neutral and non-judgmental about their parents

while you give positive, supportive, validating attention to the grandkids, but,

its possible.

>

> And yes, it is both sad and frustrating and even tragic that children have to

be extremely, severely, blatantly and chronically abused before anything can be

done to help them, legally. That is a real flaw in our current social system,

seems to me.

>

> -Annie