Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 I'v been RR sober for thirty three months, almost three years, and I have gargled with alcohol containing mouthwash EVERY DAY of that thirty three months. For ten years in AA i believed that if I even got a drop of alcohol in my mouth I would relapse and die! I think programs that cause people to binge drink after they find out that they are powerless in AA and go out and kill innocent people in car accidents (over TEN THOUSAND SOULS last year) might need to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 Just this week, we had a counselor tell a horror story of how someone relapsed after taking communion in a church that used wine instead of grape juice. Clients are also told not to eat anything prepared in liquor, even though the alcohol burns off while cooking, or anything flavored, like the ice cream or coffee. Is this to get everyone paranoid enough to continue with the sponsor and " 90 meetings " when they get out? --- camouflage32790 camouflage32790@...> wrote: > > > This has nothing to do with anything discussed > here, BUT .... I > went to the > > mini mart down the street to get some ice cream. > I got to thinking > about how > > much I used to like Rum Raisin icecream but > haven't had any since I > joined AA > > because it has real rum in it. That flavor wasn't > there tonight, > so I got my > > usual Ben and Jerry's Phish Food, but next time I > see it, I am > going to get > > some, and if I still like it, I am going to ENJOY > it. > > > > > > Phoenix, Arizona > > Your post reminds me when I worked as an operator > for the phone > company through a temp service back in 1996. I was > really into > the " program " back then. I love coffee and I always > had a cup at my > position when I was working. I went into 7-Eleven > and saw that the > flavored coffee was " Rum " . Oh, I wanted to try it > so badly. But the > AA/NA tapes went off in my head and I felt that I > had to share about > this coffee nonsense at the meeting. I even felt > guilty if I had the > Irish Creme or Amaretto coffee! Before leaving the > " rooms " , I indeed > tried the Rum-flavored coffee. It was no big deal. > Hell, one cannot > even drunk off of it because it is only a friggin' > flavor instead of > the actual booze. Talk about how brainwashed I was > to even believe > that coffee with the flavor of an alcoholic beverage > would " kill > me " ! Enjoy the ice-cream. I hate raisins so I > never had a desire to > eat that type of ice-cream. > > > > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 > Just this week, we had a counselor tell a horror story > of how someone relapsed after taking communion in a > church that used wine instead of grape juice. I have also heard that nonsense! As a Catholic, I was afraid to take the wine during communion for the longest time. Now I know that the relapse bit due to the sip of wine at church is a total crock! The " You will relapse if you take Nyquil for a cold " is another scare tactic. >Is this to get everyone paranoid enough to continue with > the sponsor and " 90 meetings " when they get out? Most definately! If the newcomers are not afraid, then AA and the steppers will have no means to control them. Paranoia and the loss of self-esteem is what keeps most members in a cult. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 Having just had a very bad cough, if you can stomach the cough mixture enough to get hooked then you must be nuts, it tastes crap, has only got the alcohol content of a strong beer and costs a bloody fortune, Why would anyone keep taking that when you can get alcohol so cheap, its nonsense. Re: AA Bull, Period! > > > Just this week, we had a counselor tell a horror story > > of how someone relapsed after taking communion in a > > church that used wine instead of grape juice. > > I have also heard that nonsense! As a Catholic, I was afraid to take > the wine during communion for the longest time. Now I know that the > relapse bit due to the sip of wine at church is a total crock! > The " You will relapse if you take Nyquil for a cold " is another scare > tactic. > > >Is this to get everyone paranoid enough to continue with > > the sponsor and " 90 meetings " when they get out? > > Most definately! If the newcomers are not afraid, then AA and the > steppers will have no means to control them. Paranoia and the loss > of self-esteem is what keeps most members in a cult. > > > > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 > Just this week, we had a counselor tell a horror story > of how someone relapsed after taking communion in a > church that used wine instead of grape juice. Clients > are also told not to eat anything prepared in liquor, > even though the alcohol burns off while cooking, or > anything flavored, like the ice cream or coffee. Is > this to get everyone paranoid enough to continue with > the sponsor and " 90 meetings " when they get out? > -------------------- I don't think it's that -- it's just part of the illogical, magical thinking that is inherent in the ideology of steppism. The slightest drop of alcohol, or anything alcohol-flavored, has the magic power to wreak evil; meeting attendance and " working the steps " has the magic power to " save " . Magical thinking is taught as " truth " in treatment centers, and anyone who points out any inconsistencies or illogic in what they are being told is told to " stop intellectualizing " , " utilize, don't analyze " etc. 12-step treatment is not only about learned helplessness, but learned stupidity. I remember my tx counselor telling a bizarre story about how she drank some fruit juice once at some gathering, not knowing there was any alcohol in it. (Obviously there wasn't enough in it to get her buzzed.) The NEXT DAY she was told by someone else that the punch had been lightly spiked. A WEEK LATER, she told us, she " lost control " and got roaring drunk and had to start her " sobriety date " all over again. This, she claimed, was " proof " of the power of just a tiny amount of alcohol to make someone " relapse " . Well sorry, but to me it was just proof she was gullible and step-teachings had filled her head with bullshit, which she was now trying to teach us. , I highly recommend that you read Herbert Fingarette's book, " Heavy Drinking: The Myth of Alcoholism as a Disease " . Among many other things, Dr. Fingarette cites the research study where they got 2 groups of " recovering alcoholics " who had been taught the step-myth of " one sip of liquor will cause a 'relapse' very soon " . The first group was given lightly-spiked punch and told it was plain; the second was given plain punch and told it was spiked. Well lo and behold -- the ones who drank plain punch but BELIEVED it was spiked, " relapsed " into drunkenness within a day or two -- and the ones who drank actually spiked punch, but believed it was plain and therefore " safe " , did NOT " relapse " . Fingarette, like others who challenge step-mythology, got a number of letters and public statements that he was " dangerous " and his book would " kill " people after it was published. ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 >Is this to get everyone paranoid enough to continue with > the sponsor and "90 meetings" when they get out? Not only things with alcohol in them, but things that only remind one of alcohol. Three years ago at Christmas, my Mom bought some nonalcoholic white bubbly "wine" for dinner. And I actually couldn't drink it because even though I knew it was only juice with bubbles, it reminded me of drinking wine with dinner and that qualified as a "thing" (as in "people, places, and things.") I had 2 sips and then apologized for not being able to drink any more of it. (shaking my head now, lol.) As a contrast -- this weekend my Mom is suffering greatly with a toothache. She has been taking so much Advil that her stomach is upset. She said, half jokingly, "If I had some vodka to swish my mouth with every hour it would numb the pain." Instead of cringing in horror, I offered to go to the store for her. One other thing -- I have been celebrating my sobriety date for so long and it is coming up next month. 5 years. I am feeling strange about giving it up. Not giving up sobriety if that is what I choose, but giving up the date, the rite of passage, the celebration. I haven't celebrated at a meeting since my first year. But I always bought myself something nice and marked it as a special day. Actually, I had 2 special dates. The AA one, and the fundie-deprogramming one, the day when I finally started to think for myself and said, "I want to remember this day." That is December 28, 2 years ago, and actually is more meaningful to me. I call it my "Day of Becoming" since I felt like that was the day I began to emerge as my own person. Phoenix, Arizona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 >Is this to get everyone paranoid enough to continue with > the sponsor and "90 meetings" when they get out? Not only things with alcohol in them, but things that only remind one of alcohol. Three years ago at Christmas, my Mom bought some nonalcoholic white bubbly "wine" for dinner. And I actually couldn't drink it because even though I knew it was only juice with bubbles, it reminded me of drinking wine with dinner and that qualified as a "thing" (as in "people, places, and things.") I had 2 sips and then apologized for not being able to drink any more of it. (shaking my head now, lol.) As a contrast -- this weekend my Mom is suffering greatly with a toothache. She has been taking so much Advil that her stomach is upset. She said, half jokingly, "If I had some vodka to swish my mouth with every hour it would numb the pain." Instead of cringing in horror, I offered to go to the store for her. One other thing -- I have been celebrating my sobriety date for so long and it is coming up next month. 5 years. I am feeling strange about giving it up. Not giving up sobriety if that is what I choose, but giving up the date, the rite of passage, the celebration. I haven't celebrated at a meeting since my first year. But I always bought myself something nice and marked it as a special day. Actually, I had 2 special dates. The AA one, and the fundie-deprogramming one, the day when I finally started to think for myself and said, "I want to remember this day." That is December 28, 2 years ago, and actually is more meaningful to me. I call it my "Day of Becoming" since I felt like that was the day I began to emerge as my own person. Phoenix, Arizona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 I don't think even the steppers believe that cold medicine will become your new " drug of choice " .... But it is their theory that even the tiniest bit of alcohol will start uncontrollable cravings and you'll go directly to the liquour store and drink them dry. Re: AA Bull, Period! > > > Just this week, we had a counselor tell a horror story > > of how someone relapsed after taking communion in a > > church that used wine instead of grape juice. > > I have also heard that nonsense! As a Catholic, I was afraid to take > the wine during communion for the longest time. Now I know that the > relapse bit due to the sip of wine at church is a total crock! > The " You will relapse if you take Nyquil for a cold " is another scare > tactic. > > >Is this to get everyone paranoid enough to continue with > > the sponsor and " 90 meetings " when they get out? > > Most definately! If the newcomers are not afraid, then AA and the > steppers will have no means to control them. Paranoia and the loss > of self-esteem is what keeps most members in a cult. > > > > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 I am feeling strange about giving it up. Not giving up sobriety if that is what I choose, but giving up the date, the rite of passage, the celebration. I haven't celebrated at a meeting since my first year. I always did feel like it was a little weird how so much pride was taken and given over these damned birthdays and I was guilty of it myself even with the very few times I had one roll around. I always thought it would be funny to raise my hand when they asked if anyone was celebrating a birthday and say "2 years tomorrow." As the whooping and clapping died down I would say "with the grace of God and this fellowship, I haven't had the desire to slaughter an animal in the name of Satan and for that I am truly grateful." I'd bet that would go over like a turd in the punch bowl. It's about the same mentality though as far as taking pride in not doing something you shouldn't do anyway. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 Clients are also told not to eat anything prepared in liquor, even though the alcohol burns off while cooking, or anything flavored, like the ice cream or coffee. It being the holiday season, I would like to warn you folks in the danger of eating those little chocolate candies with the Crown Royal inside of them. These can be very detrimental in losing your sobriety. Just a couple could send you on a free fall to the bottom and I sure would hate to hear any horror stories coming from the fellowship here. Let go and let God. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 > In a message dated 12/8/01 2:15:19 PM Central Standard Time, > IsWellwMySoul@a... writes: > > > > I am feeling strange about giving it up. Not giving up sobriety if that is > > what I choose, but giving up the date, the rite of passage, the > > celebration. I haven't celebrated at a meeting since my first year. > > I always did feel like it was a little weird how so much pride was taken and > given over these damned birthdays and I was guilty of it myself even with the > very few times I had one roll around. I celebrated my " birthdays " for the first three years and then one more time at eight years back in 2000. It was really hard to try to get back into it. Non-drinking became such a non-issue with me. Why should I get a pat on the back and this big production made for " doing the right thing " for myself? When I picked up my eight- year medallion, I had to hear this one woman go on and on in her one- year " birthday " speech before she got her medallion. This long- winded NAer actually wrote a FOUR PAGE speech and took up, like, THIRTY MINUTES of the meeting just yapping all about herself. Good God! I can imagine what her other " birthday " speeches will be like after she collects more medallions. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 I dunno , all I know is that I have never ever in my life had any kind of food product with alcohol in it. Always took great pride in making sure food items were " safe " . I think the idea is that if you put any alcohol in your system , you will drink and yes you will die. That kind of brainwashing really sticks. Even though I have had a drink of alcohol now, I still haven't ventured into the devil drink desserts and stuff that are out there. I saw some of those alcohol filled chocolates yesterday that are out during the holiday season and I still haven't been brave enough to try them. Now this doesn't make any sense at all but the brainwashing is really strong with that one. kisses Tom Boy At 04:35 AM 08/12/01 -0800, you wrote: Just this week, we had a counselor tell a horror story of how someone relapsed after taking communion in a church that used wine instead of grape juice. Clients are also told not to eat anything prepared in liquor, even though the alcohol burns off while cooking, or anything flavored, like the ice cream or coffee. Is this to get everyone paranoid enough to continue with the sponsor and " 90 meetings " when they get out? --- camouflage32790 wrote: > > > This has nothing to do with anything discussed > here, BUT .... I > went to the > > mini mart down the street to get some ice cream. > I got to thinking > about how > > much I used to like Rum Raisin icecream but > haven't had any since I > joined AA > > because it has real rum in it. That flavor wasn't > there tonight, > so I got my > > usual Ben and Jerry's Phish Food, but next time I > see it, I am > going to get > > some, and if I still like it, I am going to ENJOY > it. > > > > > > Phoenix, Arizona > > Your post reminds me when I worked as an operator > for the phone > company through a temp service back in 1996. I was > really into > the " program " back then. I love coffee and I always > had a cup at my > position when I was working. I went into 7-Eleven > and saw that the > flavored coffee was " Rum " . Oh, I wanted to try it > so badly. But the > AA/NA tapes went off in my head and I felt that I > had to share about > this coffee nonsense at the meeting. I even felt > guilty if I had the > Irish Creme or Amaretto coffee! Before leaving the > " rooms " , I indeed > tried the Rum-flavored coffee. It was no big deal. > Hell, one cannot > even drunk off of it because it is only a friggin' > flavor instead of > the actual booze. Talk about how brainwashed I was > to even believe > that coffee with the flavor of an alcoholic beverage > would " kill > me " ! Enjoy the ice-cream. I hate raisins so I > never had a desire to > eat that type of ice-cream. > > > > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 "I saw some of those alcohol filled chocolates yesterday that are out during the holiday season and I still haven't been brave enough to try them." I have eaten them, even when I was in the program. If you thought that first glass of wine was nasty...it didn't hold a candle to trying to eat a rum ball after a few years away from alcohol. Yeccchhh!!! Re: AA Bull, Period! I dunno , all I know is that I have never ever in my life had any kind of food product with alcohol in it. Always took great pride in making sure food items were "safe". I think the idea is that if you put any alcohol in your system , you will drink and yes you will die.That kind of brainwashing really sticks. Even though I have had a drink of alcohol now, I still haven't ventured into the devil drink desserts and stuff that are out there. I saw some of those alcohol filled chocolates yesterday that are out during the holiday season and I still haven't been brave enough to try them. Now this doesn't make any sense at all but the brainwashing is really strong with that one.kissesTom BoyAt 04:35 AM 08/12/01 -0800, you wrote: Just this week, we had a counselor tell a horror storyof how someone relapsed after taking communion in achurch that used wine instead of grape juice. Clientsare also told not to eat anything prepared in liquor,even though the alcohol burns off while cooking, oranything flavored, like the ice cream or coffee. Isthis to get everyone paranoid enough to continue withthe sponsor and "90 meetings" when they get out?--- camouflage32790 wrote:> > > This has nothing to do with anything discussed> here, BUT .... I > went to the > > mini mart down the street to get some ice cream. > I got to thinking > about how > > much I used to like Rum Raisin icecream but> haven't had any since I > joined AA > > because it has real rum in it. That flavor wasn't> there tonight, > so I got my > > usual Ben and Jerry's Phish Food, but next time I> see it, I am > going to get > > some, and if I still like it, I am going to ENJOY> it. > > > > > > Phoenix, Arizona> > Your post reminds me when I worked as an operator> for the phone > company through a temp service back in 1996. I was> really into > the "program" back then. I love coffee and I always> had a cup at my > position when I was working. I went into 7-Eleven> and saw that the > flavored coffee was "Rum". Oh, I wanted to try it> so badly. But the > AA/NA tapes went off in my head and I felt that I> had to share about > this coffee nonsense at the meeting. I even felt> guilty if I had the > Irish Creme or Amaretto coffee! Before leaving the> "rooms", I indeed > tried the Rum-flavored coffee. It was no big deal. > Hell, one cannot > even drunk off of it because it is only a friggin'> flavor instead of > the actual booze. Talk about how brainwashed I was> to even believe > that coffee with the flavor of an alcoholic beverage> would "kill > me"! Enjoy the ice-cream. I hate raisins so I> never had a desire to > eat that type of ice-cream.> > > > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults> > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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