Guest guest Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Hi fellow KOs, Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to her grandmother. She has never, ever expressed this interest. I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has wished she had that kind of relationship with her own grandmother. Or maybe there was something good on a cable channel that day, I don't know! (we don't have cable) Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess. The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would require too much human contact--except with my parents, of course. When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG talk about this! " I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again. It SUCKED. I'm not looking forward to seeing her. I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my daughter's activities. thanks for listening! Fiona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Fiona, If your daughter is interested in a loving, healthy relationship with an older person, you might want to look into whether any local organizations or homes for the elderly have " foster grandparent " programs that get young people together with senior citizens who don't have local family members. I would recommend being very firm about not discussing your daughter with your nada. At 10:16 AM 08/01/2012 Fiona wrote: >Hi fellow KOs, > >Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to >her grandmother. She has never, ever expressed this interest. >I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as >she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has >wished she had that kind of relationship with her own >grandmother. Or maybe there was something good on a cable >channel that day, I don't know! (we don't have cable) > >Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of >what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't >discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided >not to because that was one of the things I hated most that >nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents >and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them >after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging >my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they >have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for >me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere >( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're >filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. > >All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about >things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all >freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess. > >The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it >and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her >usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like >you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps >over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my >youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike >for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place >but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run >rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. > >I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No >friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would >require too much human contact--except with my parents, of >course. > >When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd >and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG >talk about this! " I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " > >Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again. It SUCKED. I'm not >looking forward to seeing her. > >I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my >daughter's activities. > > >thanks for listening! > >Fiona -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Hi Fiona, The way you write about your daughter's feelings, you are showing that you care a great deal about your daughter's feelings and her best interests. I think you a good, thoughtful, mentally healthy, empathetic and compassionate parent. As a responsible, caring, mentally healthy parent you have the right to make your own parenting decisions (the SAME RIGHT as your nada did!) and you have the right to say to your nada when she is being domineering and overbearing, simply but firmly, in a neutral tone, " Mom, I'm not going to discuss my parenting style or parenting decisions with you. So, is there something else you wanted to talk with me about? ...No? Then there are about 20 other things I need to be dealing with now, so, maybe some other time we can have coffee and talk. 'Bye. " You'll have to be a broken record and perhaps interrupt or talk over your mother, even: " Sorry, no, but I'm not going to discuss this with you, mother, and I won't listen to you when you are upset and criticizing me like this. Perhaps we can have a nice talk later when you are calmer. I'll be going/hanging up now. 'Bye. " Avoid slipping into " JADE " : you are NOT obligated to justify, argue, defend, or explain any of your decisions to your nada. Its OK to just state your boundary, simply and unemotionally, and if your nada tries to override, dominate or coerce you into listening to her rant at you, you have the right to politely but firmly cut the call or the visit short. FWIW, I too found it difficult to not revert to being 14 (or 4!) around my nada, and it got to the point for me that I had to go completely No Contact. But its an individual issue, as each of us has a different power/relationship dynamic with our pd parent, and differing, individual types and amounts of damage, and differing amounts of resilience. I'm betting you can do it; switch the power dynamic. Switch the paradigm. YOU are the one with the power now, its OK to exercise it. -Annie > > Hi fellow KOs, > > Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to her grandmother. She has never, ever expressed this interest. I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has wished she had that kind of relationship with her own grandmother. Or maybe there was something good on a cable channel that day, I don't know! (we don't have cable) > > Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. > > All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess. > > The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. > > I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would require too much human contact--except with my parents, of course. > > When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG talk about this! " I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " > > Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again. It SUCKED. I'm not looking forward to seeing her. > > I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my daughter's activities. > > > thanks for listening! > > Fiona > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 When nada calls and starts in you have to just tell her, you are not interested in hearing her opionins, how you raise your daughter is your business. I know exactly how you feel because I got the same thing when I said I was going to visit my SO out of state and I'm 45 and divorced! I would avoid any kind of visit and try to keep contact to phone calls where you can control t. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:30 AM Subject: Re: Nada and my daughter  Hi Fiona, The way you write about your daughter's feelings, you are showing that you care a great deal about your daughter's feelings and her best interests. I think you a good, thoughtful, mentally healthy, empathetic and compassionate parent. As a responsible, caring, mentally healthy parent you have the right to make your own parenting decisions (the SAME RIGHT as your nada did!) and you have the right to say to your nada when she is being domineering and overbearing, simply but firmly, in a neutral tone, " Mom, I'm not going to discuss my parenting style or parenting decisions with you. So, is there something else you wanted to talk with me about? ...No? Then there are about 20 other things I need to be dealing with now, so, maybe some other time we can have coffee and talk. 'Bye. " You'll have to be a broken record and perhaps interrupt or talk over your mother, even: " Sorry, no, but I'm not going to discuss this with you, mother, and I won't listen to you when you are upset and criticizing me like this. Perhaps we can have a nice talk later when you are calmer. I'll be going/hanging up now. 'Bye. " Avoid slipping into " JADE " : you are NOT obligated to justify, argue, defend, or explain any of your decisions to your nada. Its OK to just state your boundary, simply and unemotionally, and if your nada tries to override, dominate or coerce you into listening to her rant at you, you have the right to politely but firmly cut the call or the visit short. FWIW, I too found it difficult to not revert to being 14 (or 4!) around my nada, and it got to the point for me that I had to go completely No Contact. But its an individual issue, as each of us has a different power/relationship dynamic with our pd parent, and differing, individual types and amounts of damage, and differing amounts of resilience. I'm betting you can do it; switch the power dynamic. Switch the paradigm. YOU are the one with the power now, its OK to exercise it. -Annie > > Hi fellow KOs, > > Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to her grandmother.  She has never, ever expressed this interest. I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has wished she had that kind of relationship with her own grandmother.  Or maybe there was something good on a cable channel that day, I don't know!  (we don't have cable) > > Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles.  I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up.  I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me!  I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ).  I didn't want to do that to my dd. > > All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess.  > > The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. > > I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would require too much human contact--except with my parents, of course. > > When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG talk about this! "  I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " > > Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again.  It SUCKED.  I'm not looking forward to seeing her. > > I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my daughter's activities. > > > thanks for listening! > > Fiona > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I would add then quickly change the topic to something that interests her--preferably ask a question if you can. People usually like talking about themselves best of all--nadas and fadas most of all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Sometimes I could distract and redirect my nada's attention away from topics I did not wish to discuss, with that technique: asking her a question about herself. She loved to talk about herself. But that only worked if my nada was feeling relatively calm and stable at the moment. If my nada was already irritated or upset, if she was trying to pick a fight with me or was descending into paranoia or delusional thinking (making awful accusations and spewing hateful beliefs that had nothing to do with the truth/reality) then she would become very, very focused on her own feelings of irritation or hurt or paranoid fear and it wasn't likely that I could distract her. If my nada's emotions had cascaded out of control (and they could cascade in a flash) and she was either raging at me or crying hysterically, then attempting to distract and redirect her was simply not possible. At that point all I could do was hang up as politely as possible or leave her presence. I guess it boils down to an individual approach that involves experimenting and trying different techniques to discover what works best for us/our nadas. -Annie > > I would add then quickly change the topic to something that interests her--preferably ask a question if you can. People usually like talking about themselves best of all--nadas and fadas most of all! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 " Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. " OMG!!! This is the story of all my years with nada. Absolutely EVERYWHERE I went, she had to know E-X-A-C-T-L-Y who said what to me and what I said to them and who said what to me and what I said to them on and onandon down to the last picky little detail. And if she didn't like how a conversation I had with someone--didn't matter WHO--went, I was told what to say and how to feel about it, and interrogated again next time, repeat, repeat, repeat. I didn't know anybody else's nada did this! Oh God, wasn't it awful?? I am SO glad you are not doing this to your kid. And so is she, whether she knows it or not! -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I have found that BPD's LOVE triangles in relationships.(Codependents love this style of communicating as well.) I believe this is a dysfunctional way of communicating, so won't allow it. I am working really hard on not being sucked into these discussions. It can be habitual so hard to break. If our BPD has a problem with me I have made it clear to everyone that she confront me directly rather than going to someone else in the family. You would not believe how relieved family members are when they have an legit reason to say I don't know, why don't you talk directly with so and so. This is a great example for them to follow and break this dysfunctional way of communicating. When healthy family members see it works they jump on the bandwagon in a heartbeat. To be really honest when there have been direct communications like this I have found that the BPD has distorted the facts and the whole thing ends up NOT to be as the BPD has reported. I take everything that a BPD says with a grain of salt. They would not make a good witness in a court of law!! If the BPD talks to me about someone else that has a problem with me I make a point of saying, thank you very much. I will go directly to so and so to discuss this and the conversation on this topic ends there. I mean that it ends. I don't like other people talking behind my back so I am refusing to do that to others. BPD's love to start distortion campaigns about third parties based on what they think happened. Their perceptions of reality are not based on fact so I don't go along with it. I won't argue anymore because they really believe what they say so I have found that no amount of logic or facts will change their thinking. It only leads to fights or frustration for me and I have more important things to do than argue with a closed mind. Just my opinion based on my experiences with BPD. > > Hi fellow KOs, > > Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to her grandmother. She has never, ever expressed this interest. I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has wished she had that kind of relationship with her own grandmother. Or maybe there was something good on a cable channel that day, I don't know! (we don't have cable) > > Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. > > All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess. > > The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. > > I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would require too much human contact--except with my parents, of course. > > When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG talk about this! " I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " > > Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again. It SUCKED. I'm not looking forward to seeing her. > > I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my daughter's activities. > > > thanks for listening! > > Fiona > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Fi Heinlein says, in one of his characters, Go to Hell! or other similar remarks, is the only appropriate answer to snoopy questions. I think that applies in spades here. No, Nada, we will NOT have a long talk about whatever my daughter may have mentioned when I permitted her to visit with you. Do you understand the implications of that statement? I am her mother, and as such I am resonsible for raising her and setting her safe boundaries. I can take advice from whomever I wish, or reject it. Considering that you were basically a NADA as a mom raising me, I don t care to hear from you about how I raise my daughter. If you want to be able to see her, do not try to have that long talk you are dying to have, with me, OR with my daughter. Bitch. That would be my response to your Nada. You are NOT 14. You are a grown woman with a child. You are not obligated to take her advice, or even hear it. And how you raise your daughter, and what you permit her to do, is none of Nada s business. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thank you, Katrina. That's really a great idea. There are also several elderly ladies in our own building who would appreciate her company. Something to consider. Thanks. Fiona > >Hi fellow KOs, > > > >Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to > >her grandmother. She has never, ever expressed this interest. > >I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as > >she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has > >wished she had that kind of relationship with her own > >grandmother. Or maybe there was something good on a cable > >channel that day, I don't know! (we don't have cable) > > > >Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of > >what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't > >discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided > >not to because that was one of the things I hated most that > >nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents > >and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them > >after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging > >my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they > >have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for > >me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere > >( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're > >filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. > > > >All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about > >things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all > >freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess. > > > >The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it > >and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her > >usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like > >you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps > >over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my > >youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike > >for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place > >but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run > >rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. > > > >I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No > >friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would > >require too much human contact--except with my parents, of > >course. > > > >When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd > >and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG > >talk about this! " I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " > > > >Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again. It SUCKED. I'm not > >looking forward to seeing her. > > > >I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my > >daughter's activities. > > > > > >thanks for listening! > > > >Fiona > > -- > Katrina > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thanks, Annie. I'd never heard of JADE. That's a good thing to keep in mind when I see her this weekend. In my mind, I was picturing myself reasoning with her, trying to explain my side to her, but you're right. There is no need for me to do that. That's something she would do with HER mother. Mother was always right. Thanks! Fiona > > > > Hi fellow KOs, > > > > Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to her grandmother. She has never, ever expressed this interest. I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has wished she had that kind of relationship with her own grandmother. Or maybe there was something good on a cable channel that day, I don't know! (we don't have cable) > > > > Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. > > > > All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess. > > > > The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. > > > > I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would require too much human contact--except with my parents, of course. > > > > When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG talk about this! " I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " > > > > Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again. It SUCKED. I'm not looking forward to seeing her. > > > > I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my daughter's activities. > > > > > > thanks for listening! > > > > Fiona > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Ugh, that's terrible. I hope it didn't influence/ruin your visit with your SO. What do they hope to accomplish by chiming in with their 2 cents??? I don't even do that with my 14 yo. I know she's not going to listen to me if I express myself as a know it all bully. > > > > Hi fellow KOs, > > > > Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to her grandmother.  She has never, ever expressed this interest. I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has wished she had that kind of relationship with her own grandmother.  Or maybe there was something good on a cable channel that day, I don't know!  (we don't have cable) > > > > Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles.  I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up.  I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me!  I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ).  I didn't want to do that to my dd. > > > > All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess.  > > > > The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. > > > > I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would require too much human contact--except with my parents, of course. > > > > When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG talk about this! "  I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " > > > > Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again.  It SUCKED.  I'm not looking forward to seeing her. > > > > I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my daughter's activities. > > > > > > thanks for listening! > > > > Fiona > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Right??! It's horrible. Even if I speak with one of her coworkers, as you said, she wants to know EVERYTHING I said, almost as though her coworkers are going to do what SHE would do: use the information against her. > > > > " Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. " > > OMG!!! > > This is the story of all my years with nada. Absolutely EVERYWHERE I went, she had to know E-X-A-C-T-L-Y who said what to me and what I said to them and who said what to me and what I said to them on and onandon down to the last picky little detail. And if she didn't like how a conversation I had with someone--didn't matter WHO--went, I was told what to say and how to feel about it, and interrogated again next time, repeat, repeat, repeat. > > I didn't know anybody else's nada did this! Oh God, wasn't it awful?? I am SO glad you are not doing this to your kid. And so is she, whether she knows it or not! > > -- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Fiona, Get that picture out of your mind. It isn't going to happen. Where nadas are concerned, it is very important to remember that you can't have a rational discussion with someone who isn't rational. If you get into a discussion where you're trying to justify yourself, you've lost before you even begin. Nothing you say will change her mistaken ideas. You have the right to be a good parent to your child. You don't have to explain or justify your choices to your nada at all. " I'm her mother and that is my choice " is enough. At 08:34 AM 08/02/2012 Fiona wrote: >Thanks, Annie. I'd never heard of JADE. That's a good thing to >keep in mind when I see her this weekend. > >In my mind, I was picturing myself reasoning with her, trying >to explain my side to her, but you're right. There is no need >for me to do that. That's something she would do with HER >mother. Mother was always right. > >Thanks! > >Fiona -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 " I take everything that a BPD says with a grain of salt. They would not make a good witness in a court of law!! If the BPD talks to me about someone else that has a problem with me I make a point of saying, thank you very much. " Tomandfran, That's an excellent point. I don't know why I habitually believe what she's saying as gospel truth; it usually ends up being totally distorted to suit her. In fact, during the conversation, she kept saying to me, " don't tell him I told you this; he'd KILL me! " And I haven't said anything to him, not to honor her request, but b/c I'm sick of these stupid triangle games. Fiona > > > > Hi fellow KOs, > > > > Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to her grandmother. She has never, ever expressed this interest. I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has wished she had that kind of relationship with her own grandmother. Or maybe there was something good on a cable channel that day, I don't know! (we don't have cable) > > > > Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. > > > > All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess. > > > > The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. > > > > I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would require too much human contact--except with my parents, of course. > > > > When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG talk about this! " I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " > > > > Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again. It SUCKED. I'm not looking forward to seeing her. > > > > I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my daughter's activities. > > > > > > thanks for listening! > > > > Fiona > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Can I bring you along in my pocket, plllleeeease??? I WISH I could say that, so confidently. The most I'll be able to say is " I don't want to discuss this with you. It's between my husband and me. I'll need to leave, so stop. " That's about all I got of fierce. I like your response much better!! > > > Fi > > Heinlein says, in one of his characters, Go to Hell! or other > similar remarks, is the only appropriate answer to snoopy questions. I > think that applies in spades here. > > No, Nada, we will NOT have a long talk about whatever my daughter may > have mentioned when I permitted her to visit with you. > > Do you understand the implications of that statement? I am her mother, > and as such I am resonsible for raising her and setting her safe > boundaries. I can take advice from whomever I wish, or reject it. > Considering that you were basically a NADA as a mom raising me, I don t > care to hear from you about how I raise my daughter. If you want to be > able to see her, do not try to have that long talk you are dying to > have, with me, OR with my daughter. > > Bitch. > > > > That would be my response to your Nada. > > You are NOT 14. You are a grown woman with a child. You are not > obligated to take her advice, or even hear it. And how you raise your > daughter, and what you permit her to do, is none of Nada s business. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I think much of what they hope to accomplish is to drive wedges between other people, pulling us back into their power. They want to be in control. Sometimes there's also a narcissistic element of them always being right involved too. At 08:36 AM 08/02/2012 Fiona wrote: >Ugh, that's terrible. I hope it didn't influence/ruin your >visit with your SO. >What do they hope to accomplish by chiming in with their 2 >cents??? >I don't even do that with my 14 yo. I know she's not going to >listen to me if I express myself as a know it all bully. -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Fiona, my mom is deceased but the other BPD in our life had me convinced her sister had severly abused her and that was the reason she was the way she was. I had almost severed the relationship with her sister based on this but something, I think it was God, told me to check into it a bit more. Turns out that it was just harmless stuff that happens between siblings and not abuse. I did mention this to her sister, as an example of how BPDs twist things, and she responded that she knew because her sister went behind her back to tell all her close friends. I think these distortion campaigns by the BPD are really harmful to people's reputations, 99% of the time they are falsely accused. The damage is sometimes unrepairable, which makes me sick!! I just can't take this type of behavior and when I hear a " story " that generates from the BPD I will refuse to believe it until I hear several other creditable witnesses back it up. If a story is repeated to me I ask who told them. I don't tell the BPD that. I will listen without fighting, because a therapist said that it does absolutely no good to try and " correct " the facts. No amount of logic, reality or facts will change the BPD mind. It is set like concrete!! > > > > > > Hi fellow KOs, > > > > > > Recently my 14 yo daughter decided she wanted to be closer to her grandmother. She has never, ever expressed this interest. I think she must feel like she's missing out on something as she observes her best friend with her grandma and perhaps has wished she had that kind of relationship with her own grandmother. Or maybe there was something good on a cable channel that day, I don't know! (we don't have cable) > > > > > > Anyway, I had to restrain myself from giving my dd a list of what NOT to say to nada (don't discuss sleepovers, don't discuss this or that...things that set her off) but I decided not to because that was one of the things I hated most that nada would do when I would try to talk to my own grandparents and aunts/uncles. I have absolutely no relationship with them after many years of this kind of censorship and micromanaging my conversations with them, I just gave up. I don't think they have minded, either, as nobody has really come looking for me! I just wanted to be close to them and she would interfere ( " why'd you say that to them? Now they're going to think we're filthy rich!, etc. " ). I didn't want to do that to my dd. > > > > > > All I did say was to just think before speaking with nada about things that *she* (my dd) might think would get nada all freaked out. She's very familiar with nada's edginess. > > > > > > The visit came and went. My poor dd was very uninspired by it and I could tell from what she told me that nada had done her usual amazing job of interrogation without making it seem like you're being interrogated. Nada got out of her that she sleeps over often at her friend's house (this was a HUGE no-no in my youth), that she bikes around in the park (we just let her bike for 2 hours tops and have her meet us at a mutual meeting place but you know nada will twist this into my letting her run rampant), and that she goes on youth retreats. > > > > > > I was raised basically with no freedoms of that kind. No friendships. No sleepovers. No, no, no. Nothing that would require too much human contact--except with my parents, of course. > > > > > > When I spoke last with nada, she said, " I spoke with your dd and she told me some things. You and I are going to have a LONG talk about this! " I said, " uh huh. OK, bye. " > > > > > > Ugh. I felt like **I** was 14 again. It SUCKED. I'm not looking forward to seeing her. > > > > > > I don't plan on even giving her a forum in regard to my daughter's activities. > > > > > > > > > thanks for listening! > > > > > > Fiona > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I tend to look at the BPD as a child who is mentally challenged. They really believe the stuff they say and the things they do. Our BPD has said some really, really bizarre stuff in the family counseling room and outside of the room. She isn't lying when she talks, she really believes everything that comes out of her mouth, just like a little child believes what they say. They really are clueless that their mind isn't based on logic, facts or reality. The have these BPD blinders on that limits their vision. Until they decide they are sick and tired of being BPD nothing will change or take off those blinders. Healthy people know that the elevator doesn't go all the way up with BPD and won't pay much attention to what they say. I don't know why I have to defend myself against their twisted thinking but at the same time I don't have to lower myself to being rude or starting a fight that will make both of of us losers. I have gotten to the point where I value my time immensely at 52 years of age. I don't want to waste it spending hours in circular arguements. My husband will get caught up in the BPD stuff at times and that is his choice. When he talks to the BPD I will ask him, on a scale of 1-10 how did the conversation go? When it is a 10 we rejoice that it went so smooth. When it is really bad we just chalk it up to the BPD cycle now and move on. WE are learning not to take a twisted mindset personally after years of hearing it was our fault. I am so grateful that a therapist clued us into what was happening and we can change. I only wish I had this info years ago as it would have saved me much heartache. I am firmly convinced that no one can have a healthy relationship with an untreated BPD. No one will get their needs met in that relationship and I needed to stop trying. It just got to the point, after 15 years, that the pain in my heart was too great to bare dealing with the BPD. I didnt' want it to be this way and I had to grieve the dream I had of the relationship I wanted with my BPD. I am now realizing I have to grieve over the relationship I never had with my deceased mother and the damage I am left to repair in my life due to her BPD symptoms. Wasn't my fault but I still have to recover from the damage in order to have a life worthing living. > > > > > > Fi > > > > Heinlein says, in one of his characters, Go to Hell! or other > > similar remarks, is the only appropriate answer to snoopy questions. I > > think that applies in spades here. > > > > No, Nada, we will NOT have a long talk about whatever my daughter may > > have mentioned when I permitted her to visit with you. > > > > Do you understand the implications of that statement? I am her mother, > > and as such I am resonsible for raising her and setting her safe > > boundaries. I can take advice from whomever I wish, or reject it. > > Considering that you were basically a NADA as a mom raising me, I don t > > care to hear from you about how I raise my daughter. If you want to be > > able to see her, do not try to have that long talk you are dying to > > have, with me, OR with my daughter. > > > > Bitch. > > > > > > > > That would be my response to your Nada. > > > > You are NOT 14. You are a grown woman with a child. You are not > > obligated to take her advice, or even hear it. And how you raise your > > daughter, and what you permit her to do, is none of Nada s business. > > > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Thank you for this advice. My MIL has BPD. My husband suffered such neglect and abuse as a child and the true extent of abuse came to surface after 10 years of marriage. She sued us for grandparent visitation rights in NYS after we implemented no contact per recommendation from 3 licensed mental health providers. MIL wrecked havoc on our family life. Her petitions to courts and testimony were filled with lies and distortions of reality.After 3 years of litigation she was found guilty of harassment in 2nd degree and a full stay away order of protection was granted for my husband, myself and our three little daughters. She is appealing the family offense and claims the judge in the case " had it out for her " . It's always someone else's fault. Now we finally have a legal mechanism to protect us from her abuse and intrusion. And now my husband wants " to settle with her " and find a way for us to deal with her so that we get out of the legal system and away from all the legal fees. We've spent over 30,000.00 fighting her grandparent visitation. Family members tell us she " will never stop " Meaning she will continue to sue us until we are financially broken and must give in to her demands to be with our children. To add to this drama-she lives part time in a complex owned by a national religious cult and conveniently argues " she just lives there and has nothing to do with the cult " . She and her second husband treated our oldest daughter like she was royalty. In fact they nicknamed her " The Queen " . They ignored our second child. They would incessantly touch and hover over our oldest child and when I confronted them they would say I " was mentally ill and had a problem with perception " . Of course everyone backed me up and all my family members and friends said I was doing the right thing to keep them away from my children. My husband's family blamed me and said I " should just learn to live with the fact that MIL is crazy and move on " . They say she is no threat and just talk. I am trained in the field of childhood trauma and know MIL is very destructive and hurtful to all those in her path. My husband says he wants peace and wants to get out of the court system. We both agree MIL will never be alone w/ our children and we will agree to visits only in presence of therapist with us present. Hubby and I agree MIL husband is not to be involved w/ our kids at all. Please advise. I think we should wait out the appeals court decision. Hubby thinks we should take the control and put " our cards on the table and agree to some type of visitiation w/ us and a therapist a few times a year so that MIL can not sue us a 3rd time for grandparent visitation. (that way she is not actually denied visits). It's been a nightmare. Please offer your advise. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 4:22 AM Subject: Re: Nada and my daughter  I tend to look at the BPD as a child who is mentally challenged. They really believe the stuff they say and the things they do. Our BPD has said some really, really bizarre stuff in the family counseling room and outside of the room. She isn't lying when she talks, she really believes everything that comes out of her mouth, just like a little child believes what they say. They really are clueless that their mind isn't based on logic, facts or reality. The have these BPD blinders on that limits their vision. Until they decide they are sick and tired of being BPD nothing will change or take off those blinders. Healthy people know that the elevator doesn't go all the way up with BPD and won't pay much attention to what they say. I don't know why I have to defend myself against their twisted thinking but at the same time I don't have to lower myself to being rude or starting a fight that will make both of of us losers. I have gotten to the point where I value my time immensely at 52 years of age. I don't want to waste it spending hours in circular arguements. My husband will get caught up in the BPD stuff at times and that is his choice. When he talks to the BPD I will ask him, on a scale of 1-10 how did the conversation go? When it is a 10 we rejoice that it went so smooth. When it is really bad we just chalk it up to the BPD cycle now and move on. WE are learning not to take a twisted mindset personally after years of hearing it was our fault. I am so grateful that a therapist clued us into what was happening and we can change. I only wish I had this info years ago as it would have saved me much heartache. I am firmly convinced that no one can have a healthy relationship with an untreated BPD. No one will get their needs met in that relationship and I needed to stop trying. It just got to the point, after 15 years, that the pain in my heart was too great to bare dealing with the BPD. I didnt' want it to be this way and I had to grieve the dream I had of the relationship I wanted with my BPD. I am now realizing I have to grieve over the relationship I never had with my deceased mother and the damage I am left to repair in my life due to her BPD symptoms. Wasn't my fault but I still have to recover from the damage in order to have a life worthing living. > > > > > > Fi > > > > Heinlein says, in one of his characters, Go to Hell! or other > > similar remarks, is the only appropriate answer to snoopy questions. I > > think that applies in spades here. > > > > No, Nada, we will NOT have a long talk about whatever my daughter may > > have mentioned when I permitted her to visit with you. > > > > Do you understand the implications of that statement? I am her mother, > > and as such I am resonsible for raising her and setting her safe > > boundaries. I can take advice from whomever I wish, or reject it. > > Considering that you were basically a NADA as a mom raising me, I don t > > care to hear from you about how I raise my daughter. If you want to be > > able to see her, do not try to have that long talk you are dying to > > have, with me, OR with my daughter. > > > > Bitch. > > > > > > > > That would be my response to your Nada. > > > > You are NOT 14. You are a grown woman with a child. You are not > > obligated to take her advice, or even hear it. And how you raise your > > daughter, and what you permit her to do, is none of Nada s business. > > > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 That is so sad about your MIL and being dragged into court. This is the first time I have heard about this going to such legal extremes. For some reason she doesn't want to let go and respect your boundaries as a family. I wonder what your children feel towards granny and will the courts respect their wishes? My only fear would be that granny would try to turn them against you and your hubby when she is with them even if the contacts are limited. I am so sorry you have to go through this. The financial strain must be hard as well. > > > > > > > > > Fi > > > > > > Heinlein says, in one of his characters, Go to Hell! or other > > > similar remarks, is the only appropriate answer to snoopy questions. I > > > think that applies in spades here. > > > > > > No, Nada, we will NOT have a long talk about whatever my daughter may > > > have mentioned when I permitted her to visit with you. > > > > > > Do you understand the implications of that statement? I am her mother, > > > and as such I am resonsible for raising her and setting her safe > > > boundaries. I can take advice from whomever I wish, or reject it. > > > Considering that you were basically a NADA as a mom raising me, I don t > > > care to hear from you about how I raise my daughter. If you want to be > > > able to see her, do not try to have that long talk you are dying to > > > have, with me, OR with my daughter. > > > > > > Bitch. > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be my response to your Nada. > > > > > > You are NOT 14. You are a grown woman with a child. You are not > > > obligated to take her advice, or even hear it. And how you raise your > > > daughter, and what you permit her to do, is none of Nada s business. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I think I'd stick with the court system if I were you. Anything short of giving her exactly what she wants is going to fail to satisfy her and she'll just keep pursuing what she wants. Visits that include a therapist aren't what she wants. You may not be so lucky as to have the courts order her away from you a second time if you give in to her this time. If you haven't already done so, you might want to consider trying to get the courts to make her pay your legal bills for dealing with her harassment. At 05:29 AM 08/03/2012 Jeff Braley wrote: >Thank you for this advice. My MIL has BPD. My husband suffered >such neglect and abuse as a child and the true extent of >abuse came to surface after 10 years of marriage. She sued us >for grandparent visitation rights in NYS after we implemented >no contact per recommendation from 3 licensed mental health >providers. MIL wrecked havoc on our family life. Her >petitions to courts and testimony were filled with lies and >distortions of reality.After 3 years of litigation she was >found guilty of harassment in 2nd degree and a full stay away >order of protection was granted for my husband, myself and our >three little daughters. She is appealing the family offense and >claims the judge in the case " had it out for her " . It's always >someone else's fault. > >Now we finally have a legal mechanism to protect us from her >abuse and intrusion. And now my husband wants " to settle with >her " and find a way for us to deal with her so that we get out >of the legal system and away from all the legal fees. We've >spent over 30,000.00 fighting her grandparent visitation. > > >Family members tell us she " will never stop " Meaning she will >continue to sue us until we are financially broken and must >give in to her demands to be with our children. > >To add to this drama-she lives part time in a complex owned by >a national religious cult and conveniently argues " she just >lives there and has nothing to do with the cult " . > >She and her second husband treated our oldest daughter like she >was royalty. In fact they nicknamed her " The Queen " . They >ignored our second child. They would incessantly touch and >hover over our oldest child and when I confronted them they >would say I " was mentally ill and had a problem with >perception " . Of course everyone backed me up and all my family >members and friends said I was doing the right thing to keep >them away from my children. > >My husband's family blamed me and said I " should just learn to >live with the fact that MIL is crazy and move on " . They say she >is no threat and just talk. >I am trained in the field of childhood trauma and know MIL is >very destructive and hurtful to all those in her path. > >My husband says he wants peace and wants to get out of the >court system. We both agree MIL will never be alone w/ our >children and we will agree to visits only in presence of >therapist with us present. Hubby and I agree MIL husband is >not to be involved w/ our kids at all. > >Please advise. I think we should wait out the appeals court >decision. Hubby thinks we should take the control and put " our >cards on the table and agree to some type of visitiation w/ us >and a therapist a few times a year so that MIL can not sue us a >3rd time for grandparent visitation. (that way she is not >actually denied visits). >It's been a nightmare. Please offer your advise. > -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 My heart goes out to you. It does sound to me like your MIL is completely obsessed and vindictive and is out to destroy you financially. And it sounds to me like you have a crappy lawyer! The courts don't take kindly to *nuisance lawsuits or litigants* and that's what your lawyer should be hammering. Your MIL's suit has been dismissed by one court, so if she keeps trying to get it changed she is being a nuisance. And how come you guys weren't awarded damages to reimburse you for all the court costs in fighting her??? This should be costing your MIL, not you, if she keeps taking you to court and LOSING!! I guess that's my only advice, since your MIL has taken her attack to this level: get a better lawyer. Make HER pay for harassing you; it sounds like she's got a lot of money and/or this cult she belongs to does! Your husband sounds like he's reverting to a child-state, afraid of mommy and the cult; she's beating him/dominating him psychologically. Can you guys move to a state where there are stronger anti-stalking and anti-harassement laws in place, perhaps? I guess if you are truly financially strapped and have no other options, that a supervised visit once a year with you right there, and your lawyer, and your therapist. (Not MIL's selection of a therapist) might be a viable option. But to me, that violates the restraining order you already have in place, so she'd making you undo the protection you established for yourselves. She's slick! Obsessed, relentless, intelligent, rich, influential, and malevolent. My heart does go out to you, you are living in a worst-case scenario. Since law offices operate by state, if you Google " high conflict lawyers " for your state several offices should pop up. I hope this gets resolved sooner rather than later; you sound like you have been through the grinder. And its not fair, and its frustrating when the innocent (you, your husband and your kids) wind up paying the price for being persecuted by the guilty (your mil.) -Annie > > > > > > > > > Fi > > > > > > Heinlein says, in one of his characters, Go to Hell! or other > > > similar remarks, is the only appropriate answer to snoopy questions. I > > > think that applies in spades here. > > > > > > No, Nada, we will NOT have a long talk about whatever my daughter may > > > have mentioned when I permitted her to visit with you. > > > > > > Do you understand the implications of that statement? I am her mother, > > > and as such I am resonsible for raising her and setting her safe > > > boundaries. I can take advice from whomever I wish, or reject it. > > > Considering that you were basically a NADA as a mom raising me, I don t > > > care to hear from you about how I raise my daughter. If you want to be > > > able to see her, do not try to have that long talk you are dying to > > > have, with me, OR with my daughter. > > > > > > Bitch. > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be my response to your Nada. > > > > > > You are NOT 14. You are a grown woman with a child. You are not > > > obligated to take her advice, or even hear it. And how you raise your > > > daughter, and what you permit her to do, is none of Nada s business. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 OK, this is a PS: I agree: your MIL is now aware that she can't win in court, so she has brilliantly come up with this scheme to get YOU to undo the protective order that the court has awarded you. So, my advice is DON'T DO IT. Do NOT agree to allow her to meet with you or your kids in person, that undoes the restraining order. She's trying to make you " drop the weapon " of your own free will. She is slick, man. She is really, really slick. Do not buy in to this manipulative ploy. You won, already: you have the power of the law on your side, don't make yourself vulnerable to her again. If you allow this visitation, she will USE IT to bring another suit with a legitimate basis: " See, Judge? They are inconsistent! They just want to keep my grandkids away from me out of spite! I demand another lawsuit to regain my grandparent rights! " That's my take on this, anyway. You must do what feels right and best for you, that's all anyone can do, is make their best call. -Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012  crappy lawyer for initial suit but it was her idea to get a written agreement before MIL w/drew her petition. The 2nd lawyer was much better. In nys you can not seek damages for visitation petitions (we tried that already) however you can seek damages in criminal court for harassment but she loves the fight and it would only keep us involved w/ her so we opted out of that option. The law is on our side unfortunatley the way the statute is written-you must respond to the petition or they can win by default. Only biological grandparents can petition. I totally agree w/ you. I don't want the order of protection to be invalid which it will become the moment we engage in therapy w/ her. We understand there will be " a settlement conference " as part of her appeals process. We had an attorney until just a few days ago. We would have needed to come up w/ another 3500-6000.00 for the remaining work towards fighting her appeals. This past monday I called a few law centers and found out that we did not even need to defend ourselves against her appeal in the first place!!!! This was something our lawyer told my husband at a meeting that I did not attend, but my husband was convinced if we did not fight the appeal his mom would win and we'd be back in court w/ a third petition. I called our lawyer and told him we would not be needing his legal representation as part of the appeals process. Hubby said he was impressed w/ how strong I'm being in seeking answers and standing up for our family rather than being railroaded through the legal system. Her appeals says she has the 1st amendment right to freedom of speech and has the right to contact our children any time she wants. She says we can ignore it if we want but we can't infringe upon her constitutional right! In her mind she is the only one w/ constitutionally protected rights. I can't thank all of you enough. My husband found this on line support group and it's helped both of us so much. Our girls have very loving relationships w/ my husband's stepmother who they call " Grandma Rabbit " . She lives nearby and is an active part of our life. Thank god for her. My mom died long ago but I had a great relationship w/ my own grandmother and my aunt. My daughters were naturally adored by my grandma right up until her death this past December. My aunt remains a godsend to us and goes out of her way to share her love w/ our daughters. Our oldest daughter summed it up perfectly a few years ago. It was our first Christmas w/out MIL. Our daughter said " This was the best Christmas ever. It wasn't all about Grandma and what she wanted. It was about us. " She's an amazing kid. They all are. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Nada and my daughter  My heart goes out to you. It does sound to me like your MIL is completely obsessed and vindictive and is out to destroy you financially. And it sounds to me like you have a crappy lawyer! The courts don't take kindly to *nuisance lawsuits or litigants* and that's what your lawyer should be hammering. Your MIL's suit has been dismissed by one court, so if she keeps trying to get it changed she is being a nuisance. And how come you guys weren't awarded damages to reimburse you for all the court costs in fighting her??? This should be costing your MIL, not you, if she keeps taking you to court and LOSING!! I guess that's my only advice, since your MIL has taken her attack to this level: get a better lawyer. Make HER pay for harassing you; it sounds like she's got a lot of money and/or this cult she belongs to does! Your husband sounds like he's reverting to a child-state, afraid of mommy and the cult; she's beating him/dominating him psychologically. Can you guys move to a state where there are stronger anti-stalking and anti-harassement laws in place, perhaps? I guess if you are truly financially strapped and have no other options, that a supervised visit once a year with you right there, and your lawyer, and your therapist. (Not MIL's selection of a therapist) might be a viable option. But to me, that violates the restraining order you already have in place, so she'd making you undo the protection you established for yourselves. She's slick! Obsessed, relentless, intelligent, rich, influential, and malevolent. My heart does go out to you, you are living in a worst-case scenario. Since law offices operate by state, if you Google " high conflict lawyers " for your state several offices should pop up. I hope this gets resolved sooner rather than later; you sound like you have been through the grinder. And its not fair, and its frustrating when the innocent (you, your husband and your kids) wind up paying the price for being persecuted by the guilty (your mil.) -Annie > > > > > > > > > Fi > > > > > > Heinlein says, in one of his characters, Go to Hell! or other > > > similar remarks, is the only appropriate answer to snoopy questions. I > > > think that applies in spades here. > > > > > > No, Nada, we will NOT have a long talk about whatever my daughter may > > > have mentioned when I permitted her to visit with you. > > > > > > Do you understand the implications of that statement? I am her mother, > > > and as such I am resonsible for raising her and setting her safe > > > boundaries. I can take advice from whomever I wish, or reject it. > > > Considering that you were basically a NADA as a mom raising me, I don t > > > care to hear from you about how I raise my daughter. If you want to be > > > able to see her, do not try to have that long talk you are dying to > > > have, with me, OR with my daughter. > > > > > > Bitch. > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be my response to your Nada. > > > > > > You are NOT 14. You are a grown woman with a child. You are not > > > obligated to take her advice, or even hear it. And how you raise your > > > daughter, and what you permit her to do, is none of Nada s business. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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