Nada and my brother

[Guest guest]

I spoke with nada yesterday after I was away for a few days.  She half-listened

to my response to " how was your trip? " and then went on to tell me how my

brother was " down " and that he was offended I didn't meet him at the gym as he

and I had planned, that he doesn't have any friends.  

Sigh.  Another ambush by nada.  Putting herself in the middle, again.  

I have to wonder if he really said any of that, but then I realize that she

wouldn't know the details about my not being able to meet him at the gym without

him telling her. I certainly didn't say anything about it. 

She asked me to call him to try to cheer him. I told her I would contact him

(note I said " contact, " but told her that it should not be in any one person's

lap to be the only lifeline in someone else's life and that I didn't know what

to tell him). He can be kind of sad-sacky, kind of a loner.

It just feels like, despite my best efforts to keep her at arm's length, others

(my dd, my brother) are for good or bad intentions, still giving her

information, still giving her perceived power.  I just hate even having to

*briefly* discuss any of this with her.

But regarding my brother, I'd like your advice: 

Should I confront my brother?  I planned on sending him a brief email letting

him know my mother told me he was complaining to her.  But then...aren't I

becoming part of the same problem triangle?  He tells on me, she tells on him, I

tell on her....it's ridiculous.  But on the other hand, I want him to know his

mommy passed the message along to me.  

I just don't want to talk to him. I'm afraid. I'm afraid he's going to ask for

more relationship, more time together, more of me.  I just feel so, so

suffocated when I'm with him. Sometimes, it''s really great and fun and I end up

wondering why I feel bad feelings about him. But other times...many

times....he's very moody and depressed and puts the weight of that emotion on my

shoulders, as though it were my fault.  

One time, we went to see one of our favorite singers, Glen Tilbrook, in concert.

 I told my brother from the start that I could not stay past 10pm, that I would

need to catch the last bus back home.  Fine, he said. We had a nice meal, the

concert started late, there was a long break in between sets, and 10pm came.  My

brother has a way of whining and whimpering about stuff. I feel like screaming

when he does it.   " Why couldn't you stay until the end of the concert? I don't

understand... "  He brings it up every time we recall the concert, even though

it's been 3 years since we went.

My kids aren't even like that. I still feel anger when I think about how I

clearly stated my need to leave early and his childishness. I think that's what

scares me, the very fine line between the good times/ his good moods and his

brooding/bad moods.  

Should I email him? Maybe I should do so and not even mention my mother or the

gym, just reach out to him?

Fiona

[Guest guest]

Fiona,

Contact him if you want to contact him, not because your nada

wants you to. If he really doesn't have any friends, that is his

problem to deal with, not your responsibility. You can be

sympathetic about it and friendly to him if you want, but the

fact that he supposedly has no friends doesn't impose

obligations upon you. If you do contact him, I wouldn't

specifically mention your nada having said anything about what

he told her. It doesn't sound like you know that his intention

was to tattle on you. He may not have intended to tell her

anything. You probably know that nadas are usually really good

at extracting information from people. Your brother may not have

intentionally set out to talk to her about you. She may have

pushed and prodded until it slipped out or until he just gave in

and told her. If he did choose to tell her, complaining about it

probably won't stop him and if he didn't choose to do it, making

him feel bad about it probably won't stop it the next time

either. You're right about it not being desirable to take an

active part in the triangle.

>I generally don't tell my brother anything that I don't want

>our nada to know. I figure if he doesn't know it, she can't get

>it out of him and he doesn't end up in the middle of anything.

>I don't know if he's come to understand that she has mental

>problems or not. He's been her favorite for many years, mainly

>because he hasn't lived anywhere nearby for many years. I know

>that she's engaged in some bad behavior while visiting him but

>I don't know if he's seen the light or not. If he hasn't, I

>don't want to argue about it with him so I don't bring it up

>when I visit. If your brother hasn't seen the light, then he's

>probably not going to understand your desire for him not to

>talk about you to her.

At 10:22 AM 08/01/2012 Fiona wrote:

>I spoke with nada yesterday after I was away for a few

>days. She half-listened to my response to " how was your trip? "

>and then went on to tell me how my brother was " down " and that

>he was offended I didn't meet him at the gym as he and I had

>planned, that he doesn't have any friends.

>

>Sigh. Another ambush by nada. Putting herself in the middle,

>again.

>

>I have to wonder if he really said any of that, but then I

>realize that she wouldn't know the details about my not being

>able to meet him at the gym without him telling her. I

>certainly didn't say anything about it.

>

>She asked me to call him to try to cheer him. I told her I

>would contact him (note I said " contact, " but told her that it

>should not be in any one person's lap to be the only lifeline

>in someone else's life and that I didn't know what to tell

>him). He can be kind of sad-sacky, kind of a loner.

>

>It just feels like, despite my best efforts to keep her at

>arm's length, others (my dd, my brother) are for good or bad

>intentions, still giving her information, still giving her

>perceived power. I just hate even having to *briefly* discuss

>any of this with her.

>

>But regarding my brother, I'd like your advice:

>

>Should I confront my brother? I planned on sending him a brief

>email letting him know my mother told me he was complaining to

>her. But then...aren't I becoming part of the same problem

>triangle? He tells on me, she tells on him, I tell on

>her....it's ridiculous. But on the other hand, I want him to

>know his mommy passed the message along to me.

>

>I just don't want to talk to him. I'm afraid. I'm afraid he's

>going to ask for more relationship, more time together, more of

>me. I just feel so, so suffocated when I'm with him.

>Sometimes, it''s really great and fun and I end up wondering

>why I feel bad feelings about him. But other times...many

>times....he's very moody and depressed and puts the weight of

>that emotion on my shoulders, as though it were my fault.

>

>One time, we went to see one of our favorite singers, Glen

>Tilbrook, in concert. I told my brother from the start that I

>could not stay past 10pm, that I would need to catch the last

>bus back home. Fine, he said. We had a nice meal, the concert

>started late, there was a long break in between sets, and 10pm

>came. My brother has a way of whining and whimpering about

>stuff. I feel like screaming when he does it. " Why couldn't

>you stay until the end of the concert? I don't

>understand... " He brings it up every time we recall the

>concert, even though it's been 3 years since we went.

>

>My kids aren't even like that. I still feel anger when I think

>about how I clearly stated my need to leave early and his

>childishness. I think that's what scares me, the very fine line

>between the good times/ his good moods and his brooding/bad

>moods.

>

>Should I email him? Maybe I should do so and not even mention

>my mother or the gym, just reach out to him?

>

>Fiona

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

You cannot be polite or subtle with a BP.

Mom, kiss my ass. Do not lay guilt on me about my brother. I m not

responsible for him or his choices. Lay off. From now on, anytime you

mention him, I will terminate the conversation.

Boundaries, baby.

As for brother. Whatever his problems are, they are not yours. I would

call him, not face to face, so you can hang up when you need to. Very

matter of fact.

Brother, you need to listen to me. If you interupt me I will hang up

and not talk to you for a while. You insist on whining to mom like a 3

year old? I refuse to deal with a 3 year old in a mans body. I m not

going to take this needy crap from you, or the guilt from mom.

I will see you, or talk to you, when it is convenient and when I want

to, which , from the way you act, will be rarely. If you pull this

sort of crap again, I will not have contact with you for at least a

month. If you do it again after that, it will be 6 months. Dont test

me. I am woman, hear me roar! I am not here to meet your emotional

needs. Go make friends. Get a job. Buy a bike. Get a damned therapist.

But don t look to me to fill in all your crazy holes.

He s fun and funny at times, but others suffocating? He s a BP!

Sounds to me like you need LC or NC with them both, at least for a

while.

Remember, the person who says I just want a few minutes of your time

should be treated as the worst thief. All you have is a few moments of

your time, for a few days, weeks, months, and years, and then you are

gone. Your time IS your life. Even a few minutes should not be spent

cheaply.

Doug

>

> I spoke with nada yesterday after I was away for a few days. She

half-listened to my response to " how was your trip? " and then went on to

tell me how my brother was " down " and that he was offended I didn't meet

him at the gym as he and I had planned, that he doesn't have any

friends.

>

> Sigh. Another ambush by nada. Putting herself in the middle, again.

>

> I have to wonder if he really said any of that, but then I realize

that she wouldn't know the details about my not being able to meet him

at the gym without him telling her. I certainly didn't say anything

about it.

>

> She asked me to call him to try to cheer him. I told her I would

contact him (note I said " contact, " but told her that it should not be

in any one person's lap to be the only lifeline in someone else's life

and that I didn't know what to tell him). He can be kind of sad-sacky,

kind of a loner.

>

> It just feels like, despite my best efforts to keep her at arm's

length, others (my dd, my brother) are for good or bad intentions, still

giving her information, still giving her perceived power. I just hate

even having to *briefly* discuss any of this with her.

>

> But regarding my brother, I'd like your advice:

>

> Should I confront my brother? I planned on sending him a brief email

letting him know my mother told me he was complaining to her. But

then...aren't I becoming part of the same problem triangle? He tells on

me, she tells on him, I tell on her....it's ridiculous. But on the

other hand, I want him to know his mommy passed the message along to me.

>

> I just don't want to talk to him. I'm afraid. I'm afraid he's going to

ask for more relationship, more time together, more of me. I just feel

so, so suffocated when I'm with him. Sometimes, it''s really great and

fun and I end up wondering why I feel bad feelings about him. But other

times...many times....he's very moody and depressed and puts the weight

of that emotion on my shoulders, as though it were my fault.

>

> One time, we went to see one of our favorite singers, Glen Tilbrook,

in concert. I told my brother from the start that I could not stay past

10pm, that I would need to catch the last bus back home. Fine, he said.

We had a nice meal, the concert started late, there was a long break in

between sets, and 10pm came. My brother has a way of whining and

whimpering about stuff. I feel like screaming when he does it. " Why

couldn't you stay until the end of the concert? I don't understand... "

He brings it up every time we recall the concert, even though it's been

3 years since we went.

>

> My kids aren't even like that. I still feel anger when I think about

how I clearly stated my need to leave early and his childishness. I

think that's what scares me, the very fine line between the good times/

his good moods and his brooding/bad moods.

>

> Should I email him? Maybe I should do so and not even mention my

mother or the gym, just reach out to him?

>

> Fiona

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Katrina.

You're very right, that I don't know what his intentions were. I am assuming the

worst and that's not fair of me.

I was reading a book called " Emotional Vampires " yesterday and the vampire that

most resembles my nada is the Histrionic vampire. The way the author described

this " vampire " struck a chord with my current situation. He said that when these

vampires tell you that someone else is upset with you (in my case, my brother),

what they're really trying to say is that THEY are upset with you.

And that made a lot of sense as I thought about it.

My mother, during that conversation, as soon as I was done telling her what

little she allowed me to say about my trip, launched into how upset my brother

was and how he asked her, " Has Fiona called you?? " And how she said, " No, she

NEVVER calls me during the week. "

It was her way of telling me how pissed off she was at me. And I'm sure she

threw in the story about the gym to get me all riled up, which it did.

I really dislike dealing with her. It's such a pain in the ass, all the stupid

mind games.

> >I spoke with nada yesterday after I was away for a few

> >days. She half-listened to my response to " how was your trip? "

> >and then went on to tell me how my brother was " down " and that

> >he was offended I didn't meet him at the gym as he and I had

> >planned, that he doesn't have any friends.

> >

> >Sigh. Another ambush by nada. Putting herself in the middle,

> >again.

> >

> >I have to wonder if he really said any of that, but then I

> >realize that she wouldn't know the details about my not being

> >able to meet him at the gym without him telling her. I

> >certainly didn't say anything about it.

> >

> >She asked me to call him to try to cheer him. I told her I

> >would contact him (note I said " contact, " but told her that it

> >should not be in any one person's lap to be the only lifeline

> >in someone else's life and that I didn't know what to tell

> >him). He can be kind of sad-sacky, kind of a loner.

> >

> >It just feels like, despite my best efforts to keep her at

> >arm's length, others (my dd, my brother) are for good or bad

> >intentions, still giving her information, still giving her

> >perceived power. I just hate even having to *briefly* discuss

> >any of this with her.

> >

> >But regarding my brother, I'd like your advice:

> >

> >Should I confront my brother? I planned on sending him a brief

> >email letting him know my mother told me he was complaining to

> >her. But then...aren't I becoming part of the same problem

> >triangle? He tells on me, she tells on him, I tell on

> >her....it's ridiculous. But on the other hand, I want him to

> >know his mommy passed the message along to me.

> >

> >I just don't want to talk to him. I'm afraid. I'm afraid he's

> >going to ask for more relationship, more time together, more of

> >me. I just feel so, so suffocated when I'm with him.

> >Sometimes, it''s really great and fun and I end up wondering

> >why I feel bad feelings about him. But other times...many

> >times....he's very moody and depressed and puts the weight of

> >that emotion on my shoulders, as though it were my fault.

> >

> >One time, we went to see one of our favorite singers, Glen

> >Tilbrook, in concert. I told my brother from the start that I

> >could not stay past 10pm, that I would need to catch the last

> >bus back home. Fine, he said. We had a nice meal, the concert

> >started late, there was a long break in between sets, and 10pm

> >came. My brother has a way of whining and whimpering about

> >stuff. I feel like screaming when he does it. " Why couldn't

> >you stay until the end of the concert? I don't

> >understand... " He brings it up every time we recall the

> >concert, even though it's been 3 years since we went.

> >

> >My kids aren't even like that. I still feel anger when I think

> >about how I clearly stated my need to leave early and his

> >childishness. I think that's what scares me, the very fine line

> >between the good times/ his good moods and his brooding/bad

> >moods.

> >

> >Should I email him? Maybe I should do so and not even mention

> >my mother or the gym, just reach out to him?

> >

> >Fiona

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Sigh, again, Doug -- climb into my pocket!! I'm begging!

Your first sentence really struck me: " You cannot be polite or subtle with a

BP. " I am much, much too polite. I really am. I have to work on this.

I am proud to say that when I spoke with her, I did say that I was not

responsible for his lack of friends, I don't have the power to get him out of

his " down " self, etc. She wasn't listening.

I am currently LC with both of them and that's part of the reason my nada is

doing her little campaign. I don't pick up when he calls, he doesn't understand

the words, " I need to go. " He whines and talks to me like I'm his therapist.

He's just too darn needy. He has always been this way. He has a ton of issues

from his relationship with our father; he really messed my brother up. But my

brother doesn't want to admit he needs help.

Oh well. I can't force him to admit it.

Thanks, Doug!

> >

> > I spoke with nada yesterday after I was away for a few days. She

> half-listened to my response to " how was your trip? " and then went on to

> tell me how my brother was " down " and that he was offended I didn't meet

> him at the gym as he and I had planned, that he doesn't have any

> friends.

> >

> > Sigh. Another ambush by nada. Putting herself in the middle, again.

> >

> > I have to wonder if he really said any of that, but then I realize

> that she wouldn't know the details about my not being able to meet him

> at the gym without him telling her. I certainly didn't say anything

> about it.

> >

> > She asked me to call him to try to cheer him. I told her I would

> contact him (note I said " contact, " but told her that it should not be

> in any one person's lap to be the only lifeline in someone else's life

> and that I didn't know what to tell him). He can be kind of sad-sacky,

> kind of a loner.

> >

> > It just feels like, despite my best efforts to keep her at arm's

> length, others (my dd, my brother) are for good or bad intentions, still

> giving her information, still giving her perceived power. I just hate

> even having to *briefly* discuss any of this with her.

> >

> > But regarding my brother, I'd like your advice:

> >

> > Should I confront my brother? I planned on sending him a brief email

> letting him know my mother told me he was complaining to her. But

> then...aren't I becoming part of the same problem triangle? He tells on

> me, she tells on him, I tell on her....it's ridiculous. But on the

> other hand, I want him to know his mommy passed the message along to me.

> >

> > I just don't want to talk to him. I'm afraid. I'm afraid he's going to

> ask for more relationship, more time together, more of me. I just feel

> so, so suffocated when I'm with him. Sometimes, it''s really great and

> fun and I end up wondering why I feel bad feelings about him. But other

> times...many times....he's very moody and depressed and puts the weight

> of that emotion on my shoulders, as though it were my fault.

> >

> > One time, we went to see one of our favorite singers, Glen Tilbrook,

> in concert. I told my brother from the start that I could not stay past

> 10pm, that I would need to catch the last bus back home. Fine, he said.

> We had a nice meal, the concert started late, there was a long break in

> between sets, and 10pm came. My brother has a way of whining and

> whimpering about stuff. I feel like screaming when he does it. " Why

> couldn't you stay until the end of the concert? I don't understand... "

> He brings it up every time we recall the concert, even though it's been

> 3 years since we went.

> >

> > My kids aren't even like that. I still feel anger when I think about

> how I clearly stated my need to leave early and his childishness. I

> think that's what scares me, the very fine line between the good times/

> his good moods and his brooding/bad moods.

> >

> > Should I email him? Maybe I should do so and not even mention my

> mother or the gym, just reach out to him?

> >

> > Fiona

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I've learned never to take anything my nada claims to be

repeating about what other people supposedly said as being

truth. At best she's ususually picking and choosing which parts

of the conversation suit her to repeat and at worst she's mostly

making the whole thing up. I've heard her repeat conversations I

witnessed to other people and the distortions are amazing, to

the point of making it sound like things were the opposite of

what was really said. Even if what she says is mostly a true

repetition of what was said to her, she shouldn't be involved.

If someone is upset with me, he/she should be talking to me, not

her.

The book on emotional vampires sounds worth reading. Can you

tell us who the author is?

At 08:43 AM 08/02/2012 Fiona wrote:

>Thanks, Katrina.

>You're very right, that I don't know what his intentions were.

>I am assuming the worst and that's not fair of me.

>

>I was reading a book called " Emotional Vampires " yesterday and

>the vampire that most resembles my nada is the Histrionic

>vampire. The way the author described this " vampire " struck a

>chord with my current situation. He said that when these

>vampires tell you that someone else is upset with you (in my

>case, my brother), what they're really trying to say is that

>THEY are upset with you.

>

>And that made a lot of sense as I thought about it.

>

>My mother, during that conversation, as soon as I was done

>telling her what little she allowed me to say about my trip,

>launched into how upset my brother was and how he asked her,

> " Has Fiona called you?? " And how she said, " No, she NEVVER

>calls me during the week. "

>

>It was her way of telling me how pissed off she was at me. And

>I'm sure she threw in the story about the gym to get me all

>riled up, which it did.

>

>I really dislike dealing with her. It's such a pain in the

>ass, all the stupid mind games.

>

>

> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

Katrina