Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 HI. I don't see a definition for flying monkeys in the abbreviations, but I'm guessing from the context in which they are used that they are the people that are duped into being used by the person with BPD? I'm not speaking to my parents right now...(long story...taking a break) and they keep calling my sister-in-law and telling her they are worried, so she in turn then tells me " please call your parents...they are worried. " I hate this crap. I tried to tell her to dismiss herself from the equation...but she doesn't get it. Any tips? thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Yes, you have intuited pretty much what a " flying monkey " is. Its also called " triangulation " , in which a third party is asked, pressured, (or who volunteers willingly) to be the liaison between two other people. The flying monkey may have good intentions, or may not, it just depends on the individuals involved. If I was approached by a flying monkey (and I have been, in the past) I would say something like, " I understand your concern, I know you want to help, but this is strictly between (mom) and me, period. Thanks for understanding. " Me personally, I tend to think of the malicious ones as " flying monkeys " and the ones who think they are helping or who are weak, submissive, afraid and pressured relentlessly into being a liaison, as " unwitting dupes " , " minions " or " stooges " . -Annie > > HI. > > I don't see a definition for flying monkeys in the abbreviations, but I'm guessing from the context in which they are used that they are the people that are duped into being used by the person with BPD? > > I'm not speaking to my parents right now...(long story...taking a break) and they keep calling my sister-in-law and telling her they are worried, so she in turn then tells me " please call your parents...they are worried. " > > I hate this crap. > > I tried to tell her to dismiss herself from the equation...but she doesn't get it. > > Any tips? > > thx > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thanks, Annie! Ugh. And I think it is part of what Walking On Eggshells calls the " smear campaign " . Now I get it...happens all the time. They involve the other kids like this so that they look like the worried concerned parents and I look like a jackarse for not calling them. Nice! Even if I quote what you said to my sis-in-law (oh and brother gave me an authoritative " call Mom & Dad " voicemail today) then I look like a jerk. Basically, I hate being forced to do it. I'll do it in my own time. Just like they choose to call me back sometimes. I guess I'll look like the jerk either way...so might as well do it my way! > > > > HI. > > > > I don't see a definition for flying monkeys in the abbreviations, but I'm guessing from the context in which they are used that they are the people that are duped into being used by the person with BPD? > > > > I'm not speaking to my parents right now...(long story...taking a break) and they keep calling my sister-in-law and telling her they are worried, so she in turn then tells me " please call your parents...they are worried. " > > > > I hate this crap. > > > > I tried to tell her to dismiss herself from the equation...but she doesn't get it. > > > > Any tips? > > > > thx > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Your instincts are good. Most of us KO s do have finely tuned instinct, but Nada and her FOG prevents us from trusting what our gut tells us is true. Add to that some good old gaslighting, and a clowd of flying monkeys, and we come to distrust our own view of reality. Remember, the overiding analogy of these groups, Welcome to Oz, (WTO) uses mind pictures from The Wizard of Oz to illustrate our realities in dealing with a BP. In the movie, the most famous scene of WOO using the monkeys is when the Witch ( Nada) sends them out to attack Dorothy ( KO), seperate her from her friends, isolate her in the Witche s castle, lock her in a room where her visions are controlled by the Witch in a glass ball filled with FOG, and seek to destroy her unless she gives up what she wants and needs most ( The Ruby slippers which will take her home) to satisfy the Witch. The Witch s statements to Dorothy are filled with lies and disortion ( Gaslighting) " You killed my sister. ( No, a storm dropped a house on her. D just happened to be swept along by the same storm) Give them to me, they are no use to you! ( Sure they are, in the end, she uses them to get back to Kansas). By the way, if the slippers' power is to take you home, it is the Witch who has no use for them, other than averice. She is already home! You see how apt the Oz analogy is to life with a BP? Flying monkeys are brainwashed slaves, sent out to do the evil bidding of the Witch to FOG Dorothy. The Witch can always disavow their actions if pressed. " Well I never told SIL to tell you to call me, I just told her how it hurt me that you didnt. I never dreamed she d tell you. " ( Switching, of course, from Witch to Waif.) I recently posted a responce to another member s situation in which I said " You cannot be subtle and polite to a BP. " By extension, that is true of thier monkeys as well. They are caught up in the illusory, fanstasy world that the BP spins as thier own version of reality. They drink the Kool Aid. They buy the BS. Some are monkeys for a long time. Often, because of splitting, they will eventually be unable to carry out a wish for the BP, and then move instantly from Hero to Villain. At this point, the BP will turn on them. Sometimes when that happens they have an epiphany, and realize, oh my, that crazy bitch! But till then, you must deal with the Monkeys just as you do the BP. These monkeys are mangy and covered with fleas. They are indistinguishable from the BP who controls them. You might offer SIL a copy of SWOE to read. Perhaps her eyes will be opened. More likely she will end up saying to your parents, do you know what she thinks about you? So what can you do? Boundaries. You set boundaries that help you maintain emotional health, and defend them as vigorously as any barbed wire fence. In the case of SIL, I would say, " SIL, I have tried to get through to you before and it doesnt seem to stick. Now let me put it as directly as I can. My relationship with my parents is none of your business. I will speak to them when I choose to , and not before. I will not discuss them, nor do I want to hear about them or their desire for me to call. If you want to understand the reasons, read SWOE and we ll talk about it. But otherwise, if you bring them up one more time, I will refuse to talk or have a relationship with you as well. I don t want to do this, but you are ignoring my requests to leave it alone. So very simply, if you want to be able to talk to me, leave my parents out of the conversation. I will enforce this condition, so I hope you ll take it seriously. And if she violates it, then do just what you said you would. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Thanks Doug! Whoa! I needed this strong reinforcement that I am not being a jerk and I'm just standing up for my boundaries AND my personal choices of how I want to interact with people that do not respect me. And you know what? I don't have anything to talk to them about. It is always annoying and boring. I don't want to hear about their neighbors that I don't know. I don't want to know about my mom's sad life that she won't take any responsibility for...I don't want to listen to her talk about her 100th surgery coming up. Plus, they stress me out. I'm going to have to get it down ...when I do call...to a routine 5 minutes of politeness and then excuse myself. And isn't it funny that my brother never calls me just to chat...but he felt HE could TELL ME to call my parents. Blech. No influence. Clueless. They are monkey brains! > > > Your instincts are good. Most of us KO s do have finely tuned instinct, > but Nada and her FOG prevents us from trusting what our gut tells us is > true. Add to that some good old gaslighting, and a clowd of flying > monkeys, and we come to distrust our own view of reality. > > Remember, the overiding analogy of these groups, Welcome to Oz, (WTO) > uses mind pictures from The Wizard of Oz to illustrate our realities in > dealing with a BP. In the movie, the most famous scene of WOO using the > monkeys is when the Witch ( Nada) sends them out to attack Dorothy ( > KO), seperate her from her friends, isolate her in the Witche s castle, > lock her in a room where her visions are controlled by the Witch in a > glass ball filled with FOG, and seek to destroy her unless she gives up > what she wants and needs most ( The Ruby slippers which will take her > home) to satisfy the Witch. The Witch s statements to Dorothy are > filled with lies and disortion ( Gaslighting) " You killed my sister. ( > No, a storm dropped a house on her. D just happened to be swept along by > the same storm) Give them to me, they are no use to you! ( Sure they > are, in the end, she uses them to get back to Kansas). > > By the way, if the slippers' power is to take you home, it is the Witch > who has no use for them, other than averice. She is already home! > > > > You see how apt the Oz analogy is to life with a BP? > > Flying monkeys are brainwashed slaves, sent out to do the evil bidding > of the Witch to FOG Dorothy. The Witch can always disavow their actions > if pressed. " Well I never told SIL to tell you to call me, I just told > her how it hurt me that you didnt. I never dreamed she d tell you. " ( > Switching, of course, from Witch to Waif.) > > I recently posted a responce to another member s situation in which I > said " You cannot be subtle and polite to a BP. " By extension, that is > true of thier monkeys as well. They are caught up in the illusory, > fanstasy world that the BP spins as thier own version of reality. They > drink the Kool Aid. They buy the BS. Some are monkeys for a long time. > > Often, because of splitting, they will eventually be unable to carry out > a wish for the BP, and then move instantly from Hero to Villain. At > this point, the BP will turn on them. Sometimes when that happens they > have an epiphany, and realize, oh my, that crazy bitch! But till then, > you must deal with the Monkeys just as you do the BP. These monkeys are > mangy and covered with fleas. They are indistinguishable from the BP > who controls them. > > You might offer SIL a copy of SWOE to read. Perhaps her eyes will be > opened. More likely she will end up saying to your parents, do you know > what she thinks about you? > > So what can you do? Boundaries. You set boundaries that help you > maintain emotional health, and defend them as vigorously as any barbed > wire fence. In the case of SIL, I would say, " SIL, I have tried to > get through to you before and it doesnt seem to stick. Now let me put > it as directly as I can. My relationship with my parents is none of > your business. I will speak to them when I choose to , and not before. > I will not discuss them, nor do I want to hear about them or their > desire for me to call. If you want to understand the reasons, read > SWOE and we ll talk about it. But otherwise, if you bring them up one > more time, I will refuse to talk or have a relationship with you as > well. I don t want to do this, but you are ignoring my requests to > leave it alone. So very simply, if you want to be able to talk to me, > leave my parents out of the conversation. I will enforce this > condition, so I hope you ll take it seriously. > > And if she violates it, then do just what you said you would. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Doug, you are on a roll! C > > > Your instincts are good. Most of us KO s do have finely tuned instinct, > but Nada and her FOG prevents us from trusting what our gut tells us is > true. Add to that some good old gaslighting, and a clowd of flying > monkeys, and we come to distrust our own view of reality. > > Remember, the overiding analogy of these groups, Welcome to Oz, (WTO) > uses mind pictures from The Wizard of Oz to illustrate our realities in > dealing with a BP. In the movie, the most famous scene of WOO using the > monkeys is when the Witch ( Nada) sends them out to attack Dorothy ( > KO), seperate her from her friends, isolate her in the Witche s castle, > lock her in a room where her visions are controlled by the Witch in a > glass ball filled with FOG, and seek to destroy her unless she gives up > what she wants and needs most ( The Ruby slippers which will take her > home) to satisfy the Witch. The Witch s statements to Dorothy are > filled with lies and disortion ( Gaslighting) " You killed my sister. ( > No, a storm dropped a house on her. D just happened to be swept along by > the same storm) Give them to me, they are no use to you! ( Sure they > are, in the end, she uses them to get back to Kansas). > > By the way, if the slippers' power is to take you home, it is the Witch > who has no use for them, other than averice. She is already home! > > > > You see how apt the Oz analogy is to life with a BP? > > Flying monkeys are brainwashed slaves, sent out to do the evil bidding > of the Witch to FOG Dorothy. The Witch can always disavow their actions > if pressed. " Well I never told SIL to tell you to call me, I just told > her how it hurt me that you didnt. I never dreamed she d tell you. " ( > Switching, of course, from Witch to Waif.) > > I recently posted a responce to another member s situation in which I > said " You cannot be subtle and polite to a BP. " By extension, that is > true of thier monkeys as well. They are caught up in the illusory, > fanstasy world that the BP spins as thier own version of reality. They > drink the Kool Aid. They buy the BS. Some are monkeys for a long time. > > Often, because of splitting, they will eventually be unable to carry out > a wish for the BP, and then move instantly from Hero to Villain. At > this point, the BP will turn on them. Sometimes when that happens they > have an epiphany, and realize, oh my, that crazy bitch! But till then, > you must deal with the Monkeys just as you do the BP. These monkeys are > mangy and covered with fleas. They are indistinguishable from the BP > who controls them. > > You might offer SIL a copy of SWOE to read. Perhaps her eyes will be > opened. More likely she will end up saying to your parents, do you know > what she thinks about you? > > So what can you do? Boundaries. You set boundaries that help you > maintain emotional health, and defend them as vigorously as any barbed > wire fence. In the case of SIL, I would say, " SIL, I have tried to > get through to you before and it doesnt seem to stick. Now let me put > it as directly as I can. My relationship with my parents is none of > your business. I will speak to them when I choose to , and not before. > I will not discuss them, nor do I want to hear about them or their > desire for me to call. If you want to understand the reasons, read > SWOE and we ll talk about it. But otherwise, if you bring them up one > more time, I will refuse to talk or have a relationship with you as > well. I don t want to do this, but you are ignoring my requests to > leave it alone. So very simply, if you want to be able to talk to me, > leave my parents out of the conversation. I will enforce this > condition, so I hope you ll take it seriously. > > And if she violates it, then do just what you said you would. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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