Sued for grandparent visitation

[Guest guest]

MIL is a piece of work. She testified at her first petition and then immediately

withdrew her petition which prevented us from cross examining her. She signed an

agreement to get into therapy w/ us, pay for portion of legal fees, and refrain

from contacting our children.  That suit alone cost us nearly 20,000.00!  The

very next day she violated the agreement and mailed letters to our children. 

She claimed in her defense that she " is driven by the force of her love for

granddaughters "  

We charged her w/ a family offense of harassment.  She responded by filing a

second grandparent visitation petition. During the hearing for the family

offense she was found guilty of Aggravated harassment in 2nd degree and a full 2

year order of protection was granted for myself, my husband, and our three

little girls.  She then withdrew the second grandparent visitiation petition. 

She is currently appealing the family harassment charge and seeking a reversal

of the order of protection. 

She has never ever played a caretaker role for our children. Ever. She was a

visiting MIL who we tried to include on holidays and birthdays. She wanted much

more involvement but we did our best to maintain boundaries and keep contact to

holiday.  I'm a full time stay at home mom raising three little girls ages 9,

7, and 3. My husband, Jeff, is a contractor who has worked so hard in his life

to overcome the abuses he endured during childhood.  He was devastated by his

mother's complete lack of empathy and her intent to destroy us financially.  I

Left my career as a principal at a private school that specializes in working w/

children and adolescents w/ psychiatric disorders.  I had a fulfilling career

but left so that I could be a full time mom to our little girls.

MIL escalated her abuse towards my husband and I after she moved into the cult

in 2007.   She used to tell our oldest daughter (who was 4yrs old!) that she

and " poppop " (her second husband)  were going to take her away from mommy and

daddy and she would live with them.  MIL would whisper crazy things like this

to our daughter all the time.  On several occasions MIL  told our daughter

that MIL was the only one in the world who would ever really love her and take

care of her.

Can you imagine what a 4 year old child experiences hearing such nonsence?? MIL

was not left alone w/ our girls but she would still find sneaky ways to scare

our children. One of her favorite tactics was to tell them that " Mommy is mean

because she won't let you play alone with Grandma " . 

I allowed the abuse towards me but put a foot down when MIL started these

tactics w/ my daughter. I contacted professionals who helped my husband and I

understand the damage MIL was doing to our family, our own sense of self esteem

and stability as well as the devasting effects on our daughter.

It's been hell.  My family has been completely supportive. So have all of our

friends.  Husband's family blames us and says " we should just learn to get

along w/ MIL " and " pretend nothing is wrong a few times a year " .  It's never

that simple.

Our children were appointed a law guardian (standard practice in family court in

our county). He has been an advocate for the girls and supports continuation of

the order of protection however he has stated he hoped counselling would bring

an end to the conflict.

The thing is-- we have offered to help MIL for years and remain committed to

working in therapy w/ her so that she can learn skills so that she can be

involved w/ our family in a healthy positive manner. She refuses and has gone so

far as to write in an email to us that " it's up to us if we plan to waste our

precious resources fighting to keep a loving grandmother and poppop away from

their grandchildren " .

She has plenty of money. We have the law. Still the whole process has been

horrible on our finances and my husband thinks she may be ready " to settle " and

agree to financial restitution and counselling w/ us then we would agree to two

visits per year w/ a therapist or third party present in addition to both of

us. 

We have had two attorneys. Both times we had more awareness of the family law

then they did although our current attorney really did a great job educating

himself on the law and he fought for the order of protection on our behalf.  We

are currently not spending our money to respond to her appeal to NYS supreme

court of appeals because quite frankly.... we know she will sue us a third time

and we need to save our monies for that battle. We have been told by law

authorities to go to DA and file criminal charges of harassment should she file

a third petition against us in the future. 

Our oldest daughter is now 9. She has few memories of MIL. The other two girls

have no memories of her, in fact MIL hasn't seen our youngest daugther since she

was an infant.

Our anger has subsided but we remain heartbroken that mental illness can destroy

so many potentially wonderful relationships.  From my training I am aware that

the separation MIL has from our family brings her only further depression and

mental instability but we can't use our little girls as a bandage for the wounds

MIL carries.  She has no real relationships w/ other family members except her

daughter who remains childless by choice.

We've heard recently that MIL " won't stop " . This from hubby's sister.  We take

that to mean she intends to continue w/ her lawsuits against us in court over

the years.  As we have for 3 years, we will fight her petitions again. 

Once a therapist told me that I " had to stand in front of my husband and protect

him from his mother's abuse until my husband was strong enough to stand in front

of me and/or beside me " . That took 7 years and it almost destroyed our marriage

but we worked our butts off because of our love and commitment to our children

and our desire to be a healthy, two parent family doing our best to raise our

girls w/ strong values, compassion, and belief in themselves.  My husband has

often cried when he sees me w/ our daughters-snuggling up together reading

stories, baking choc chips cookies, making scrapbooks, etc.. He says he never

once experienced even a moment of that type of nuturing from his mom during his

childhood. He did get some of it from his paternal grandmother and an aunt but

for the most part he was on his own as a child.

The other thing that really touches my husband is when he sees me comforting our

girls if for instance they feel and scraped their knees on the playground. I

will naturally hug them, gently wash their boo boos and give them bandaids and

offer to help them w/ whatever feat they had struggled w/ and fell.  Or if they

tell me they have a stomach ache, I will make them sleepy time tea and give them

a warm blanket and tell them to rest.  My husband says I " always believe my

daughters and really listen to them " .  This is such a simple act that parents

do a million times a day-they validate their children. But my husband never

experienced it from his mom.  He would be told things like " you are fine. you

don't need anything.  leave me alone I'm working on a proposal,

........etc.... "   He was neglected. emotionally. mentally. physically.  He

carries scars and we've worked hard as a couple to learn how to deal w/ his

battle wounds. I'm not always graceful at

my responses and sometimes I'll just yell " The past is over. You are a dad now.

No more time for excuses. just put on your big boy pants and do something

positive for your children " .

And you know what?

He always does.    MIL's abuse only made him stronger. She made our marriage

stronger and our family stronger.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 10:14 AM

Subject: Re: Nada and my daughter

 

That is so sad about your MIL and being dragged into court. This is the first

time I have heard about this going to such legal extremes. For some reason she

doesn't want to let go and respect your boundaries as a family. I wonder what

your children feel towards granny and will the courts respect their wishes? My

only fear would be that granny would try to turn them against you and your hubby

when she is with them even if the contacts are limited. I am so sorry you have

to go through this. The financial strain must be hard as well.

> > >

> > >

> > > Fi

> > >

> > > Heinlein says, in one of his characters, Go to Hell! or other

> > > similar remarks, is the only appropriate answer to snoopy questions. I

> > > think that applies in spades here.

> > >

> > > No, Nada, we will NOT have a long talk about whatever my daughter may

> > > have mentioned when I permitted her to visit with you.

> > >

> > > Do you understand the implications of that statement? I am her mother,

> > > and as such I am resonsible for raising her and setting her safe

> > > boundaries. I can take advice from whomever I wish, or reject it.

> > > Considering that you were basically a NADA as a mom raising me, I don t

> > > care to hear from you about how I raise my daughter. If you want to be

> > > able to see her, do not try to have that long talk you are dying to

> > > have, with me, OR with my daughter.

> > >

> > > Bitch.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > That would be my response to your Nada.

> > >

> > > You are NOT 14. You are a grown woman with a child. You are not

> > > obligated to take her advice, or even hear it. And how you raise your

> > > daughter, and what you permit her to do, is none of Nada s business.

> > >

> > > Doug

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Husband's entire family has been affected by living with a mentally ill

individual, and what they do and say is built around the skills they learned in

order to survive with that person in their midst. I wouldn't discuss MIL with

them, because they will just say confusing and irrational things you might be

tempted to take seriously--like the idea that MIL won't stop. I don't know what

MIL will do. Neither do they. But she looms very large in their minds, and

it's hard for husband's family not to believe she isn't all-powerful and

all-knowing, because that's one of the family's big lies.

I know exactly how your husband feels. I have no memories of being nurtured by

my biological parents. I have some memories of providing supply to nada as she

went through the motions of providing comfort, but it was never what I needed or

wanted, and she was so terrifying to me that I never experienced physical

closeness with her as anything other than threatening.

The thing about your children is they will grow up and stop being so cute.

There is usually an upper age limit for people who target children for abuse,

after which they seem too much like individuals and not like adorable

playthings. This might come faster than you would think.

There's a book out there for people divorcing from nasty types that might have

applications for your situation: It's called " Splitting. "

I wish you all the best in this.

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

What a nightmare. I'll be reading your posts with interest as my parents have

recently hired a lawyer to represent them for " grandparents' rights " .

Fortunately for my husband and I they've never been very good with their

finances, so I don't think they'll have the means to pursue this much.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Fi

> > > >

> > > > Heinlein says, in one of his characters, Go to Hell! or other

> > > > similar remarks, is the only appropriate answer to snoopy questions. I

> > > > think that applies in spades here.

> > > >

> > > > No, Nada, we will NOT have a long talk about whatever my daughter may

> > > > have mentioned when I permitted her to visit with you.

> > > >

> > > > Do you understand the implications of that statement? I am her mother,

> > > > and as such I am resonsible for raising her and setting her safe

> > > > boundaries. I can take advice from whomever I wish, or reject it.

> > > > Considering that you were basically a NADA as a mom raising me, I don t

> > > > care to hear from you about how I raise my daughter. If you want to be

> > > > able to see her, do not try to have that long talk you are dying to

> > > > have, with me, OR with my daughter.

> > > >

> > > > Bitch.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > That would be my response to your Nada.

> > > >

> > > > You are NOT 14. You are a grown woman with a child. You are not

> > > > obligated to take her advice, or even hear it. And how you raise your

> > > > daughter, and what you permit her to do, is none of Nada s business.

> > > >

> > > > Doug

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm not a lawyer (or anything close to it) but from reading articles about this

issue, it seems that a grandparent only has a chance of winning such a lawsuit

if the grandparent has been the child's primary caregiver for a long enough time

that the child has become bonded with the grandparent as though the gp is the

child's parent. (The younger the child, the shorter amount of time it takes for

the child to bond, if I understand correctly.) " Grandparents rights " only comes

into play if the grandparent has not been granted legal custody of the child,

btw.

If Granny or Grandpa has been the child's primary caregiver for a good while,

but then the bio-parents come back into the picture, have legal custody and take

their child back, the grandparent can make a good legal case for being allowed

to continue seeing their grandchild because the little child thinks of the gp as

their mommy or daddy.

At least, that's the way its supposed to work. I'm sure there must be cases

where " grandparents rights " have been granted by the court inappropriately.

-Annie

>

> What a nightmare. I'll be reading your posts with interest as my parents have

recently hired a lawyer to represent them for " grandparents' rights " .

Fortunately for my husband and I they've never been very good with their

finances, so I don't think they'll have the means to pursue this much.

[Guest guest]

   It a prefect world it would work this way. However,against a woman with

unlimited resources  and nothing to lose it has become a game. The deeper she

forces down the courts rabbit hole,the better chance she has of bankrupting us

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 3:36 PM

Subject: Re: Sued for grandparent visitation

 

I'm not a lawyer (or anything close to it) but from reading articles about this

issue, it seems that a grandparent only has a chance of winning such a lawsuit

if the grandparent has been the child's primary caregiver for a long enough time

that the child has become bonded with the grandparent as though the gp is the

child's parent. (The younger the child, the shorter amount of time it takes for

the child to bond, if I understand correctly.) " Grandparents rights " only comes

into play if the grandparent has not been granted legal custody of the child,

btw.

If Granny or Grandpa has been the child's primary caregiver for a good while,

but then the bio-parents come back into the picture, have legal custody and take

their child back, the grandparent can make a good legal case for being allowed

to continue seeing their grandchild because the little child thinks of the gp as

their mommy or daddy.

At least, that's the way its supposed to work. I'm sure there must be cases

where " grandparents rights " have been granted by the court inappropriately.

-Annie

>

> What a nightmare. I'll be reading your posts with interest as my parents have

recently hired a lawyer to represent them for " grandparents' rights " .

Fortunately for my husband and I they've never been very good with their

finances, so I don't think they'll have the means to pursue this much.