I got the email from my dad.

August 6, 2012

I've redacted some of the identifying info in this email from my dad, and

included my own thoughts in [brackets], but other than that, this is what I got.

I've been mostly NC with my mom since Memorial Day. She got verbally abusive in

front of my kids. That's what prompted the NC. I knew nothing of BPD when I did

that. I just did it because I didn't know what else to do. I have since

started reading and seeing a therapist and know now that I have a queen/witch on

my hands. Had I known that before Memorial Day, I could have and would have

handled myself so differently. But I am where I am now, and I'm not quite sure

where to go from here. For the record, I am absolutely not withholding her

grandchildren. And I will post my response to my dad's email. Am I going about

this all wrong?

Email from dad...Received after I sent a text to mom after she insinuated in a

text to my husband that I was angry with my dad:

Begin Email:

I received the following text from you on July 25: " Please understand the

difficulties that exist are between me and you, not me and you and Daddy. I

understand you are married and you are his best friend and he supports you, and

I would never put him in a position where he felt caught in the middle. But I

would appreciate it if you would stop insinuating to [husband] that there is an

'us' versus me mentality here. Because I certainly don't see it that way. And I

would hope you are not conveying our conversations to Daddy in that matter. "

I consider this text as your invitation for me to weigh in on the difficulties

between you and your mother. While tensions have existed going back years, in

my view the major escalation started during the [spring break] trip. [in my view

they go back waaaaaay farther than that.] While I have been living this whole

encounter since [spring break], to make sure I am assessing things objectively,

I went back and compiled and reviewed all texts since then. A copy of the

transcript is attached. I encourage you to review it.

What I found is you started this fight when you demanded an apology from Mom for

things that she simply did not do. [i explained to her that she hurt my

feelings and that I had no interest in pretending everything was fine until the

situation was addressed.] She did not accuse you of being a bad mother or

shirking your parental duties. [she absolutely did in an earlier phone

conversation. She wanted to know why her grandson had not seen a doctor for an

ongoing medical problem. What kind of mother was I to let the condition go

unchecked?! For the record, we are on doctor number nine and the problem has

been mostly resolved until the spring break trip that he went on without me and

my husband.] Go back and review the texts. When you didn't get the apology,

you accused Mom of outrageous behavior including giving with strings attached.

This from the most freely giving person on the planet who, by the way, had just

freely given your son a magical vacation. [That was all her idea and she

excluded my stepchildren from.....Boy, that was an uncomfortable mess] And you

lobbied unsuccessfully for support from her friends. [One friend....And she gave

me the whole honor thy mother no matter what bit.] Your disrespect subsided for

a while but reappeared leading to the nasty confrontation on Memorial Day.

[There was no nasty on my end. I simply sat there and let her go off.] Mom

finally had enough of your verbal attacks, while sometimes subtle, on our

guests. [This never happened. Enter the lies from siblings and their guests.]

And she had enough of your treating [our home] as your personal Holiday Inn with

her as your maid and cook, especially since it involved [someone my mother

doesn't care for because of lies told by my brother to cover his own butt].

Since that time, it certainly appears that the grandchildren, which Mom adores,

have been withheld. It also appears that Facebook was used as a weapon on at

least three occasions, the most ridiculous being the snub on her birthday. [The

snub being that I wished her a happy birthday simultaneously with two of my

other friends having birthdays on the same day. Not sure what the other two

times were.] This is the reason you were unfriended. I understand you have

since unfriended [sis-in-law] and [sister] and, I suspect, also [brother]. [i

did indeed unfriend them all. They have come to find entertainment in telling

my mother untruths in order to unleash her fury on me.]

Let me be clear before you unfriend me. Mom was not " insinuating " anything in

her text to Tony. You need to understand Mom and I are a team. If you pick a

fight with her, you pick a fight with me. We have all put up with your sense of

entitlement and verbal pissyness. [My husband, a mental health professional

himself, is baffled. He says he hasn't witnessed any of the character traits my

family claims I have. He would know, right?] I acknowledge that you have made

progress toward correcting these traits but you are not there yet. You are a

good wife and a good mother. It's time you become a better family member and

friend.

If you don't want to be a part of this family, that is your choice. But, let me

again be clear. Withholding the grandchildren is NOT acceptable behavior. It is

not fair to make them suffer for your fight.

What amazes me most is that you are so totally blind to what is plainly obvious

to everyone else, including your friends. I know this is not what you want to

hear and, believe me, it is not what I want to write. But it is what you need

to hear. It's your move.

Dad

My response:

Hi Daddy,

I don't intend to block you on Facebook. You are the one member of the family

that hasn't twisted my behavior (or alleged behavior) on FB and in person into

something that makes my mother hate me so. You seem to be the only one who

observes rather than participate in what appears to have become a bit of a sport

in some circles. I've read enough about what is happening, and has been

happening my entire life, between she and I, and conferred with enough mental

health professionals to know that defending myself or pleading that anything

other that what she believes is happening or has happened is just a waste of

breath, time, and energy. But, on the subject of the children, I will say this:

They are most certainly not being withheld. Since Memorial Day every request to

see them has been met. The fact that there has only been one request is not

within my control. It is also my understanding that their mother's phone number

was also provided to increase opportunities to arrange time with them. The

[children] also have their phones and would love to hear from you and mom more

often. But these avenues to seeing and communicating with the children are not

being utilized. Please do not confuse this lack of utilization with me

purposefully withholding the children. Because it is a fact that the children

are available as they have ever been.

I have been instructed when faced with such general phrases as " so totally blind

to what is so plainly obvious to everyone else " , to ask for more specific

information. It would be helpful in my therapy to know what I am blind to and

who else, specifically, sees what I do not.

I know that you and mom are a team, but you must understand. I am not fighting.

I am rearranging my life and how I handle certain aspects of it and these

changes are being mistaken for " weapons " in a fight that does not exist.

I want to have a relationship with you with all of my heart. I miss you like

I've never missed anything in my life. But I understand your position, and have

been trying to respect it. I copied you on that last text to mom because I

wanted you to know that I don't blame you for anything. And I wanted you to

know that I don't see a reason to change my behavior towards you. You and I

have never had problems. I copied you so you would know that, regardless of how

you see each other, I see you as two separate people. And I wanted to be clear

that, from my perspective, you and I are ok. Her text to [husband] made it sound

like I was upset with you. I am not.

As far as mom goes, I let her know I was open to moving forward in the

relationship between she and I when she could come to terms with her

anger/hate/disdain for me and when she could relinquish her need to " change me " .

I haven't heard from her, so I can only assume that hasn't happened yet. I am

not going to press the issue. But please let her know that her still being angry

with me does not have to affect how often she sees the kids. They are as

available as they have ever been. But as far as whose " move " it is, that ball

is in her court.

I love you.

August 6, 2012

I think your father has made his position clear, and I don't think it's the

position you've assumed he is in. He is not torn between two conflicting

loyalties: he has only one loyalty, and that is to his wife. He is quite

definitely on his wife's side, and sees you in the same unflattering light that

she does. You may see your parents as two separate people, but they do not.

I think it may help to understand that this is indeed a fight: he and nada are

most certinaly attacking you, although you may not be attacking them.

I'm so sorry.

Take care,

Ash

August 6, 2012

Thanks, Ash, for reading my ridiculously long post. How do I exit this fight?? I

don't want to fight. I want the hatefulness to stop. I don't hate anyone o

anything except this senseless hatefulness I'm getting from my parents! I didn't

do these things they claim I did. I just feel so hopeless. I feel like I should

do something, I just don't know what th right thing to do is. I'm very clearly

doing everything wrong.

>

> I think your father has made his position clear, and I don't think it's the

position you've assumed he is in. He is not torn between two conflicting

loyalties: he has only one loyalty, and that is to his wife. He is quite

definitely on his wife's side, and sees you in the same unflattering light that

she does. You may see your parents as two separate people, but they do not.

>

> I think it may help to understand that this is indeed a fight: he and nada are

most certinaly attacking you, although you may not be attacking them.

>

> I'm so sorry.

>

> Take care,

> Ash

>

August 6, 2012

Hi,

Your email and thoughts definitely hit home with me. I'm not speaking with my

Nada at the moment, since we decided to take a break, but when we take a break I

also " take a break " from my step-father, Brother and Sister (who are very young

and still live at home). Basically if Nada and I aren't getting along I can't

speak to anyone else in the household. I've tried to contact my brother since

he has his own cell but I know Nada is watching it. But I just keep texting him

for him to know that I'm not mad at him and still care for him, as I do the rest

of the family.

Anyways...My step-father immediately takes Nada's side. He doesn't even ask

what happens, he just calls up and starts yelling at me and asking how I could

be so mean to Nada. When in fact, she is also the other person in the fight and

has also done wrong. But they, like your parents, don't seem to take

responsibility for their actions and just blame me/you.

Your situation seems even more complicated since you have children. My

family/extended family has had fights about not spending enough time with the

kids. But it's never been resolved. I'm sorry i don't have an answer for you.

I know it's really hard but it may be a good idea to take a break or limit

time/conversations.

What I've learned is the more you you learn about BPD and see Parents' actions

and the way they treat you the more frustrated you get and want to back off.

Which can be really hard. It's your family and you want to stay connected but

once you have open eyes it's hard to make new boundaries.

In my situation I just want to forget about what happened and move on. We had a

fight let's both apologize and move on from this. But Nada can't move on and if

she's can't move on then I'm afraid our relationship will never be the same, if

we can even ever have one.

It's hard when your Dad takes sides since he's supposed to be the Dad. My step

Dad is the same way, and it really hurts.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Just know there are others going through

the same thing.

Good Luck!

> >

> > I think your father has made his position clear, and I don't think it's the

position you've assumed he is in. He is not torn between two conflicting

loyalties: he has only one loyalty, and that is to his wife. He is quite

definitely on his wife's side, and sees you in the same unflattering light that

she does. You may see your parents as two separate people, but they do not.

> >

> > I think it may help to understand that this is indeed a fight: he and nada

are most certinaly attacking you, although you may not be attacking them.

> >

> > I'm so sorry.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Ash

> >

>

August 6, 2012

My Queen/Witch nada had some fixed delusional ideas about me (and other people

as well) that were very negative, that no amount of logic or even facts could

dislodge. To those with bpd, often " feelings ARE facts " and you can't have a

reasoned discussion about facts on that basis, with someone who refuses to

acknowledge or use facts.

All you CAN do is decide what you will and will not tolerate RE the way your

parents treat you. You are not obligated to subject yourself to hate-filled,

accusatory, insulting tirades. You can step away from the drama, chaos and

irrationality (I think of it as stepping away from a red-hot stove to keep from

getting burned.)

If all your parents want to do is blame you and attack you, well, then... they

are really leaving you no options.

All I can think of is to take a " time out " from the relationship (temporary No

Contact) for a while and de-stress.

I sympathize; I found attempting to handle my nada's drama, rage and weeping,

her insults and blaming, her efforts to pick fights with me and her

perfectionism highly, HIGHLY stressful, to the point where my body began

reacting in a scary way: sudden explosive headaches + loud ringing in the ears +

vertigo, vomiting, etc. My body decided for me that I needed to go No Contact.

I'm sorry you are going through bad stress with your pd parents.

-Annie

> >

> > I think your father has made his position clear, and I don't think it's the

position you've assumed he is in. He is not torn between two conflicting

loyalties: he has only one loyalty, and that is to his wife. He is quite

definitely on his wife's side, and sees you in the same unflattering light that

she does. You may see your parents as two separate people, but they do not.

> >

> > I think it may help to understand that this is indeed a fight: he and nada

are most certinaly attacking you, although you may not be attacking them.

> >

> > I'm so sorry.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Ash

> >

>

August 6, 2012

I think the fight may come down to this: they say you have been bad and deserve

to be punished. It's hard not to speak up and say you haven't been bad and

therefore don't deserve punishment. The fight is about trying to change their

view of you. You can't.

As likely as not, their reasoning is " emotional reasoning. " Nada wants to

punish you. Therefore you must have been bad. This keeps her from feeling

guilty about wanting to hurt you for essentially no reason. Nothing is going to

dissuade her from seeing you in the way she wants to see you. Seeing things in

this way benefits her too much: it makes her feel better and allows her to do

what she wants to do. It's hard to say why your father colludes in this, but he

does. He may be just as angry at you for " attacking " someone he perceives as

his possession. Or enmeshment may be a comfortable position for him.

I think it can help just to try to accept that she sees the world (including

you) in a distorted way and she prefers to continue to see it that way and it

has to do with wanting to hurt other people and needing to justify that to

herself and others. She can't be reasoned with. Just get out of the line of

fire.

Take good care,

Ashana

August 7, 2012

I agree with the others. I also had an en stepfather who just punished me

without waiting to hear my mothers side of the story, even when she was being

ridiculous. Oh wait, that was all the time. Sorry I digress.

I am sure because he is actually your father that it is painful to realize the

role that enablers play in propping up the pd (though a lot of enablers are pd

too). For me, it was easy to see how my stepfather abdicated all responsibility

and integrity (oh he never had any whooops) when it came to my egg donor. But I

feel, and I know this is evidence of black and white thinking so feel free to

call me out, that enablers are almost as reprehensible as the pds when it comes

to the children. There should be good samaritan laws for enablers.

And I know you are having a lot of pain right now as you are coming to terms

with the idea that your parents do not support you, and yes, it is both your

parents. What I hear from your post is your frustration and understandable

desire to not accept what is going on. This is one of the steps of grieving and

healing. And unfortunately, for me at least, healing means a lot of grieving,

which is the thing that happens when the iceberg that contains your emotions

begins to melt.

I hear from a lot of people on these lists that they thought the en parent was a

good parent, then when the lightbulb goes off they often find that the en parent

was actually not a good parent, but enjoyed playing the role in comparison to

the antics of the other pd (or less high functioning pd) parent.

I am glad you found your way on here. Read and be kind to yourself, really

really kind.

Jaleo

August 7, 2012

Hi Ashana, I wanted to say how much I liked this response and your explanation

of " emotional reasoning. " How many decades of misery did I spend wondering WHY

my PD parents were treating me so badly. Couldn't they see how hurtful and

horrible their words and actions were? The answer is NO, because to the PD, it's

BENEFITING them. It feels GOOD to act this way, and it relieves their own

discomfort. That's why they do it. Acting like a PD is an excellent and

wonderful thing in the PDs view.

IMO, it's necessary for KOs to get a grip on these cold, hard facts in order to

embrace boundaries that offer protection from the PD parent. Until a child

realizes, " It makes Mommy feel good to hurt me, " they will continually hope for

the best, waiting for the parent to " see the light " and opt for forgiving and

forgetting which will only lead to more blindside punishment.

As I struggled to understand this strange PD phenomenon with my own nada, I

asked myself, " Why would Nada give up this behavior if it rewards her and makes

her feel good? Why would anybody give up something that not only made them feel

better but let them do whatever they wanted to do? " Answer: They wouldn't. They

would fight like hell to avoid " understanding. " They would throw up every

roadblock available to keep the channel open for that behavior that makes them

feel so good. They would throw all their energy and might into forcing everyone

else to realize why they are justified to think and act that way. Sound like

anyone you know?

When I " got " this concept clear in my own mind, the struggle was reframed and my

futile part in the struggle also came clear. I stopped trying to change or

reason with nada and I focused 100% on protecting myself, getting boundaries in

place, and building shields and walls to deflect nada's " feel good " rage.

Suddenly, everything made sense and I was able to take steps that would restore

order to my mind and life.

AFB

>

> I think the fight may come down to this: they say you have been bad and

deserve to be punished. It's hard not to speak up and say you haven't been bad

and therefore don't deserve punishment. The fight is about trying to change

their view of you. You can't.

>

> As likely as not, their reasoning is " emotional reasoning. " Nada wants to

punish you. Therefore you must have been bad. This keeps her from feeling

guilty about wanting to hurt you for essentially no reason. Nothing is going to

dissuade her from seeing you in the way she wants to see you. Seeing things in

this way benefits her too much: it makes her feel better and allows her to do

what she wants to do. It's hard to say why your father colludes in this, but he

does. He may be just as angry at you for " attacking " someone he perceives as

his possession. Or enmeshment may be a comfortable position for him.

>

> I think it can help just to try to accept that she sees the world (including

you) in a distorted way and she prefers to continue to see it that way and it

has to do with wanting to hurt other people and needing to justify that to

herself and others. She can't be reasoned with. Just get out of the line of

fire.

>

> Take good care,

> Ashana

>

August 7, 2012

I agree: I think this is an important insight. Those of us born to

personality-disordered parents are like a fish that hatched in a polluted pond:

dysfunction is our " normal " , every-day environment and we have no way of

comprehending that what we are experiencing is actually abnormal and toxic.

So we grow up believing that we must somehow deserve to be neglected or

mistreated, because that's all we know. However our parents treat us IS our

" normal " , and we absorb it and learn it the same as we learn the language our

parents speak to us.

It takes being exposed to a different perspective before such a child/adult

child is able to comprehend that actually, no: other people don't do these

things to their children, and the way I am treated by my parents is NOT normal,

its NOT OK, and I don't deserve it.

I've read that if a child has even ONE caring adult in their life who can

validate the child's perceptions and reality, and reassure the child that he or

she is a good, lovable person, that they're not bad and do not deserve the

neglect or abuse or exploitation they're enduring at the hands of their own

mother or father, that it can make a world of difference to the child. (And

that is precisely why children are so vulnerable to sexual predators; neglected,

abused kids CRAVE that adult caring, attention and validation and the predators

can smell it.)

I'm glad that we here are all in the process of gaining (or have gained) a more

objective and realistic emotional perspective on our own relationship with our

parents, which enables us to truly comprehend the difference between healthy and

unhealthy behaviors. Realizing and accepting that " No, that's actually not

healthy or OK " is a key step in being able to establish reasonable adult

boundaries for ourselves.

-Annie

>

> Hi Ashana, I wanted to say how much I liked this response and your explanation

of " emotional reasoning. " How many decades of misery did I spend wondering WHY

my PD parents were treating me so badly. Couldn't they see how hurtful and

horrible their words and actions were? The answer is NO, because to the PD, it's

BENEFITING them. It feels GOOD to act this way, and it relieves their own

discomfort. That's why they do it. Acting like a PD is an excellent and

wonderful thing in the PDs view.

>

> IMO, it's necessary for KOs to get a grip on these cold, hard facts in order

to embrace boundaries that offer protection from the PD parent. Until a child

realizes, " It makes Mommy feel good to hurt me, " they will continually hope for

the best, waiting for the parent to " see the light " and opt for forgiving and

forgetting which will only lead to more blindside punishment.

>

> As I struggled to understand this strange PD phenomenon with my own nada, I

asked myself, " Why would Nada give up this behavior if it rewards her and makes

her feel good? Why would anybody give up something that not only made them feel

better but let them do whatever they wanted to do? " Answer: They wouldn't. They

would fight like hell to avoid " understanding. " They would throw up every

roadblock available to keep the channel open for that behavior that makes them

feel so good. They would throw all their energy and might into forcing everyone

else to realize why they are justified to think and act that way. Sound like

anyone you know?

>

> When I " got " this concept clear in my own mind, the struggle was reframed and

my futile part in the struggle also came clear. I stopped trying to change or

reason with nada and I focused 100% on protecting myself, getting boundaries in

place, and building shields and walls to deflect nada's " feel good " rage.

>

> Suddenly, everything made sense and I was able to take steps that would

restore order to my mind and life.

> AFB

August 7, 2012

I have never been more grateful for a group of strangers in my life. Thank you

all, truly. Your insights and advice are amazingly invaluable. I guess right now

I'm going through the whole how-could-I-be-so-dumb-and-blind stage. I was

telling my husband tonight that I know I am smarter and more insightful than I

have been my entire life. I should have realized that this wasn't normal. But I

guess it was to me. I'm meeting with a therapist on Sunday. She's a BPD

sspecialist. I plan on giving her this email exchange between my and my dad and

the texting transcript he compiled. But I'm not really sure what else I should

be prepared to talk with her about. There's just so much! I guess I'm just

overwhelmed. Any guidance would be most helpful and majorly appreciated.

>

> I've redacted some of the identifying info in this email from my dad, and