advice about first-time boundaries

[Guest guest]

I have so many questions for you all!! I am going to try to limit myself to

one per email. :-) I will try to keep this short but it makes sense to give a

little bit of history.

It's particularly hard for me to face how damaged my mother is because I

gave up on fada long ago. He left our whole family when I was in college and my

sister was 17. He did have another woman but I think the impetus was something

else. I am quite sure he has some sort of mental illness/disorder though I am

not sure what it is. I grew up with him as a loving and involved parent, but he

suddenly withdrew when he left and has been like a weird distant relative ever

since. I did a lot of grieving about it.

My mother has never been diagnosed as BPD but I read SWOE with my jaw

dropping open, it described her so perfectly. (My wife is reading it now, and

she agrees.)

My childhood was similar, I am sure, to many of yours, with the

unpredictable rages, the physical and emotional abuse. She once forced me to

get down on my hands and knees to beg her forgiveness. When I graduated college

I came home for a brief period before I moved out to start a job, and I had to

leave that house even though she locked herself in the bathroom and threatened

to kill herself. etc, etc.

There is a lot of mental illness in our family. My father's brother was

schizophrenic/bipolar/paranoid and killed himself in 1978, when I was 4. My

mother's mother was BPD/NPD or both and a real horror show and her fada was not

much better. I was terrified of my grandnada as a child. It's always been

openly discussed in our family that grandnada was damaged and probably NPD; she

was a horrific mother (my mother was actually raised in part by her own

grandparents) and a scary mean grandmother. My mom did leave us alone with her

when requested even though I begged her not to. (My mom would be so, so enraged

if I ever hinted that I thought she was damaged like grandnada. For what it's

worth I think my mom is less atrocious....)

I have two young children (4 and 2) and I have watched my mom like a hawk

with my own children. So far she has never been awful to them (she sometimes

says things about them that are a little crazy but not so they can hear). They

actually adore her. But I don't plan to leave them alone with her.

My younger sister is pretty damaged too, unfortunately. She married a man

who is BPD/NPD/sociopathic, in my opinion. He is currently incarcerated for

raping a minor. He, and my sister, insist that he is innocent and was framed.

My BPD mother goes back and forth on what she believes. My mom and sister live

very close to each other (I, THANK GOD, live several hours away) and there is a

lot of enmeshment going on. My sister and her 5 year old son are being entirely

supported by my mom and her MIL (who is also one of the most difficult

personalities I have ever met in my life, and I actually have been shut out of

the family periodically by both my mom and my sister because of boundaries I set

with my sister's MIL). My sister and I do talk about my mom and how difficult

she is and how to deal with her. I have shared my thoughts about BPD. My

sister is too dependent on my mom for childcare not to leave her son alone with

nada, unfortunately.

About a month ago, my mother's husband of ten years passed away. I didn't

know him terribly well but he was a sweet, kind, good man and probably the best

grandparent that my children had (since my parents are both PD and my wife's

parents are unfortunately deceased). Part of my facing how sick my mom really is

has been watching her react to his death. She just carries on and on about how

his adult sons aren't treating her right and people aren't " celebrating his

widow " appropriately. Really. Once or twice she has mentioned missing him, but

her every day phone calls are to rail about how the world is not properly

honoring her. It's chilling because he was such a lovely man. (And I know she

was pretty horrible to him. He had dementia and was losing function/memory. My

wife and I overheard her raging at him because she was angry that he forgot

things. We looked into elder abuse charges but didn't feel like we could have

improved his condition. It broke my heart to hear her, because it sounded just

like how she treated me as a child. Except that I knew I would eventually grow

up and get away. And he had no such comfort. I can't help but wonder if he

wanted to die, and that thought haunts me.)

I have a million questions about how to proceed now that I have realized

that I think BPD is what's going on here. But I'll try to start with one. Nada

is currently out of the country, on a vacation she had planned before her

husband's death. She's away for another week. Since she has been gone the

contact has been far, far less -- some needy emails, and alas, one phone call,

but she can't really figure out the technology to call too often. It has been

WONDERFUL. I need to figure out a way to keep her at bay when she returns. My

family is leaving for vacation the day she returns, and I don't want to have to

spend my entire week at the beach on the phone with her.

I guess I basically have 2 options. I can decide how often to speak to her

(once a day? every other day?) and then just answer or not answer my phone

accordingly. Or I can explicitly tell her the rules. I'm wondering what people

think is a better strategy. I have certainly tried to set boundaries with her

before but never quite so explicitly.

I know this is really long, thank you for reading.

Leah

[Guest guest]

Leah,

Do you want to set a limit on the number of calls from her while

you're on vacation or permanently?

Telling her the rules is likely to cause drama. People with BPD

really, really don't like rules. They particularly don't like it

when we are the ones who make the rules because they feel that

we should be and do exactly what they want without questioning

them. In general, I don't think that telling them what the rules

are is helpful but there are exceptions. Limiting calls while

you're on vacation could turn out to be relatively easy compared

to doing it permanently. You could just warn her beforehand that

you may not have good cell phone service where you are and that

you may have to turn your phones off while doing various things.

Depending on where you're going, it might not be surprising for

both of those excuses to be true. Even if they're not, you could

act like they are and just answer the phone when you want to do

so.

If you're going to limit the number of times you talk to her

permanently rather than just while you're on vacation, that's

likely to be harder. You could tell her that you are unable to

talk to her more than once a day (or twice a week or whatever)

and that you won't be answering the phone if she calls more

often. She'll almost certainly react by calling more often or by

getting angry and not calling at all. Once she figures out that

you're not answering some of her calls, she may escalate her

behavior, blocking her number from showing on caller ID and/or

using other people's phones so that a different number appears.

She may do things like leave you messages claiming she needs to

talk to you due to an emergency. She may enlist some flying

monkees to call you and tell you to call her. She may start

calling you at work or other places where it is harder for you

to avoid her calls. If you don't tell her you're not going to

answer, she may leave increasingly strident messages about how

she's worried about you because you're not answering. She may

even call the police to check on you, telling them that she

thinks something bad has happened to you because she can't reach

you. There's another option as well - once you're back from your

vacation you could gradually cut the number of calls you answer

and the length of time you stay on the phone for each call and

let her gradually get used to talking to you less. That would

take longer but might get you where you want to be without any

big drama.

However you decide to do it, make sure your wife is on the same

page with you and that you're both prepared to enforce the

boundaries you've chosen. If you're not united in this, she may

find a way to drive a wedge between you and use that to get what

she wants. Having a plan for how you're going to react when your

boundaries are crossed is just as important as choosing the

boundaries themselves. The consequences can be as simple as just

not answering unwanted calls. Or they can involve some

consequence that she won't like.

At 02:44 PM 08/11/2012 Badgerdog wrote:

> I have so many questions for you all!! I am going to try

> to limit myself to one per email. :-) I will try to keep

> this short but it makes sense to give a little bit of history.

> It's particularly hard for me to face how damaged my

> mother is because I gave up on fada long ago. He left our

> whole family when I was in college and my sister was 17. He

> did have another woman but I think the impetus was something

> else. I am quite sure he has some sort of mental

> illness/disorder though I am not sure what it is. I grew up

> with him as a loving and involved parent, but he suddenly

> withdrew when he left and has been like a weird distant

> relative ever since. I did a lot of grieving about it.

> My mother has never been diagnosed as BPD but I read SWOE

> with my jaw dropping open, it described her so perfectly. (My

> wife is reading it now, and she agrees.)

> My childhood was similar, I am sure, to many of yours,

> with the unpredictable rages, the physical and emotional

> abuse. She once forced me to get down on my hands and knees

> to beg her forgiveness. When I graduated college I came home

> for a brief period before I moved out to start a job, and I

> had to leave that house even though she locked herself in the

> bathroom and threatened to kill herself. etc, etc.

> There is a lot of mental illness in our family. My

> father's brother was schizophrenic/bipolar/paranoid and killed

> himself in 1978, when I was 4. My mother's mother was BPD/NPD

> or both and a real horror show and her fada was not much

> better. I was terrified of my grandnada as a child. It's

> always been openly discussed in our family that grandnada was

> damaged and probably NPD; she was a horrific mother (my mother

> was actually raised in part by her own grandparents) and a

> scary mean grandmother. My mom did leave us alone with her

> when requested even though I begged her not to. (My mom would

> be so, so enraged if I ever hinted that I thought she was

> damaged like grandnada. For what it's worth I think my mom is

> less atrocious....)

> I have two young children (4 and 2) and I have watched my

> mom like a hawk with my own children. So far she has never

> been awful to them (she sometimes says things about them that

> are a little crazy but not so they can hear). They actually

> adore her. But I don't plan to leave them alone with her.

> My younger sister is pretty damaged too,

> unfortunately. She married a man who is BPD/NPD/sociopathic,

> in my opinion. He is currently incarcerated for raping a

> minor. He, and my sister, insist that he is innocent and was

> framed. My BPD mother goes back and forth on what she

> believes. My mom and sister live very close to each other (I,

> THANK GOD, live several hours away) and there is a lot of

> enmeshment going on. My sister and her 5 year old son are

> being entirely supported by my mom and her MIL (who is also

> one of the most difficult personalities I have ever met in my

> life, and I actually have been shut out of the family

> periodically by both my mom and my sister because of

> boundaries I set with my sister's MIL). My sister and I do

> talk about my mom and how difficult she is and how to deal

> with her. I have shared my thoughts about BPD. My sister is

> too dependent on my mom for childcare not to leave her son

> alone with nada, unfortunately.

> About a month ago, my mother's husband of ten years passed

> away. I didn't know him terribly well but he was a sweet,

> kind, good man and probably the best grandparent that my

> children had (since my parents are both PD and my wife's

> parents are unfortunately deceased). Part of my facing how

> sick my mom really is has been watching her react to his

> death. She just carries on and on about how his adult sons

> aren't treating her right and people aren't " celebrating his

> widow " appropriately. Really. Once or twice she has

> mentioned missing him, but her every day phone calls are to

> rail about how the world is not properly honoring her. It's

> chilling because he was such a lovely man. (And I know she was

> pretty horrible to him. He had dementia and was losing

> function/memory. My wife and I overheard her raging at him

> because she was angry that he forgot things. We looked into

> elder abuse charges but didn't feel like we could have

> improved his condition. It broke my heart to hear her,

> because it sounded just like how she treated me as a

> child. Except that I knew I would eventually grow up and get

> away. And he had no such comfort. I can't help but wonder if

> he wanted to die, and that thought haunts me.)

> I have a million questions about how to proceed now that

> I have realized that I think BPD is what's going on here. But

> I'll try to start with one. Nada is currently out of the

> country, on a vacation she had planned before her husband's

> death. She's away for another week. Since she has been gone

> the contact has been far, far less -- some needy emails, and

> alas, one phone call, but she can't really figure out the

> technology to call too often. It has been WONDERFUL. I need

> to figure out a way to keep her at bay when she returns. My

> family is leaving for vacation the day she returns, and I

> don't want to have to spend my entire week at the beach on the

> phone with her.

> I guess I basically have 2 options. I can decide how

> often to speak to her (once a day? every other day?) and then

> just answer or not answer my phone accordingly. Or I can

> explicitly tell her the rules. I'm wondering what people

> think is a better strategy. I have certainly tried to set

> boundaries with her before but never quite so explicitly.

> I know this is really long, thank you for reading.

>Leah

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Leah,

I'm not sure about this, but I think when there's an aberration from routine on

the horizon, it can be best to let the bpd know ahead of time and then stick to

it. When there's going to be a new routine, it's sometimes easier just to start

doing it without any explanation. Maybe tell her reception may not be very good

from the beach, and not to worry if you're unable to keep in touch--after all,

it's just a week. Or even tell her you are planning to unplug for the week as

part of taking a vacation. I don't think there's really any need to talk to her

at all on your vacation.

You could then start up the habit of only talking to her once a week--that's as

often as I could handle talking to bpd sis. Once a day is just way too much,

and way too intense, and keeps the person way too interested in you. And,

anyway, I don't do enough worth commenting on in a day to need to talk to

someone other than a significant other that often. Bpds usually find other

forms of entertainment just fine if it's scaled back from that significantly.

It can help if you present yourself as just being a little bland when you do

talk to the bpd.

Good luck!

Ashana

[Guest guest]

I should add it may be best not to listen to messages if bpd mom starts getting

agitated about your not taking her calls. The messages tend to be manipulative

[Guest guest]

However you decide to proceed, you have to be prepared that when you first start

setting boundaries the behavior is going to be worse and out of control. Think

of it like telling a 3 year old they can't have a piece of candy- they will have

a temper tantrum. But, with consistent behavior and boundary reinforcement from

you, the child soon understands that when you say no you mean no and a temper

tantrum won't change anything, thus they stop the tantrum over the candy. I

found that when nada was alive thinking of her as a child helped me reinforce.

You don't argue with children, and don't argue with nada. It's like talking to a

brick wall, right? If she starts in about how it's cruel or unfair simply say,

" I'm sorry you feel that way. " Then get off the phone. Don't try to state your

reasons in hopes of her understanding. If you feel you need to give a reason,

(for example " I can't call you because I am working " ), say it one time and be

done. If she persists you can say (again), " I'm sorry you feel that way. I have

already explained why I can't call. " Then get off the phone asap. The worst

thing you can do is get in argument. You'll end up talking in circles until you

wonder if YOU are the crazy one. Also she will never, never see your point of

view. You'll just get more upset. I know this is easier said than done, but with

practice you'll get the hang of it.

As far as your vacation, if you don't want to talk to her while you are on

vacation, don't. You don't have to- you are not responsible for her emotional

well being- she is an adult. If it were me, I think I would probably say

something simple like, " Mom, I just wanted to let you know wife and I decided

that we are going to unplug during this vacation and use our cell phones as

little as possible, so you may not hear from me while we are gone. " No doubt she

will get upset, but then (again, sorry to beat a dead horse!) say " I'm sorry you

feel that way. " Get off the phone. I don't think there is a right or wrong way

to stop calling her as much as far as telling her vs not, just be consistent

with the boundaries. It will be hard, but we are here to support you! Good luck

and I hope you have a wonderful vacation.

>

> I have so many questions for you all!! I am going to try to limit myself

to one per email. :-) I will try to keep this short but it makes sense to give

a little bit of history.

> It's particularly hard for me to face how damaged my mother is because I

gave up on fada long ago. He left our whole family when I was in college and my

sister was 17. He did have another woman but I think the impetus was something

else. I am quite sure he has some sort of mental illness/disorder though I am

not sure what it is. I grew up with him as a loving and involved parent, but he

suddenly withdrew when he left and has been like a weird distant relative ever

since. I did a lot of grieving about it.

> My mother has never been diagnosed as BPD but I read SWOE with my jaw

dropping open, it described her so perfectly. (My wife is reading it now, and

she agrees.)

> My childhood was similar, I am sure, to many of yours, with the

unpredictable rages, the physical and emotional abuse. She once forced me to

get down on my hands and knees to beg her forgiveness. When I graduated college

I came home for a brief period before I moved out to start a job, and I had to

leave that house even though she locked herself in the bathroom and threatened

to kill herself. etc, etc.

> There is a lot of mental illness in our family. My father's brother was

schizophrenic/bipolar/paranoid and killed himself in 1978, when I was 4. My

mother's mother was BPD/NPD or both and a real horror show and her fada was not

much better. I was terrified of my grandnada as a child. It's always been

openly discussed in our family that grandnada was damaged and probably NPD; she

was a horrific mother (my mother was actually raised in part by her own

grandparents) and a scary mean grandmother. My mom did leave us alone with her

when requested even though I begged her not to. (My mom would be so, so enraged

if I ever hinted that I thought she was damaged like grandnada. For what it's

worth I think my mom is less atrocious....)

> I have two young children (4 and 2) and I have watched my mom like a hawk

with my own children. So far she has never been awful to them (she sometimes

says things about them that are a little crazy but not so they can hear). They

actually adore her. But I don't plan to leave them alone with her.

> My younger sister is pretty damaged too, unfortunately. She married a man

who is BPD/NPD/sociopathic, in my opinion. He is currently incarcerated for

raping a minor. He, and my sister, insist that he is innocent and was framed.

My BPD mother goes back and forth on what she believes. My mom and sister live

very close to each other (I, THANK GOD, live several hours away) and there is a

lot of enmeshment going on. My sister and her 5 year old son are being entirely

supported by my mom and her MIL (who is also one of the most difficult

personalities I have ever met in my life, and I actually have been shut out of

the family periodically by both my mom and my sister because of boundaries I set

with my sister's MIL). My sister and I do talk about my mom and how difficult

she is and how to deal with her. I have shared my thoughts about BPD. My

sister is too dependent on my mom for childcare not to leave her son alone with

nada, unfortunately.

> About a month ago, my mother's husband of ten years passed away. I didn't

know him terribly well but he was a sweet, kind, good man and probably the best

grandparent that my children had (since my parents are both PD and my wife's

parents are unfortunately deceased). Part of my facing how sick my mom really is

has been watching her react to his death. She just carries on and on about how

his adult sons aren't treating her right and people aren't " celebrating his

widow " appropriately. Really. Once or twice she has mentioned missing him, but

her every day phone calls are to rail about how the world is not properly

honoring her. It's chilling because he was such a lovely man. (And I know she

was pretty horrible to him. He had dementia and was losing function/memory. My

wife and I overheard her raging at him because she was angry that he forgot

things. We looked into elder abuse charges but didn't feel like we could have

improved his condition. It broke my heart to hear her, because it sounded just

like how she treated me as a child. Except that I knew I would eventually grow

up and get away. And he had no such comfort. I can't help but wonder if he

wanted to die, and that thought haunts me.)

> I have a million questions about how to proceed now that I have realized

that I think BPD is what's going on here. But I'll try to start with one. Nada

is currently out of the country, on a vacation she had planned before her

husband's death. She's away for another week. Since she has been gone the

contact has been far, far less -- some needy emails, and alas, one phone call,

but she can't really figure out the technology to call too often. It has been

WONDERFUL. I need to figure out a way to keep her at bay when she returns. My

family is leaving for vacation the day she returns, and I don't want to have to

spend my entire week at the beach on the phone with her.

> I guess I basically have 2 options. I can decide how often to speak to

her (once a day? every other day?) and then just answer or not answer my phone

accordingly. Or I can explicitly tell her the rules. I'm wondering what people

think is a better strategy. I have certainly tried to set boundaries with her

before but never quite so explicitly.

> I know this is really long, thank you for reading.

> Leah

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Leah,

I've done both re: phone calls from nada.

I've just avoided her phone calls and answered when I wanted. The problem I

found with this was how agitated and more belligerent she would get. Ugh.

I've also told her straight up (after a big argument and 4 weeks NC, after which

I felt it was my opportunity to lay down rules...it's true, BPDs don't like

rules, but for my nada, it was either rules OR more NC from and what she

perceived as abandonment and I guess she chose the rules). I told her, from now

on, I will be calling you once a week. She tried to break that and called me a

few times, but she's backed off after I just didn't answer the phone or return

her messages. It was very, very hard for me to maintain this, but I had to.

Like you said, who wants to spend their whole vacation with nada or anybody??

On vacations, I don't call her AT ALL. It's a vacation! ha ha

Read Boundaries. I'm reading it again and man, am getting so much out of it.

Best wishes.

Fiona

>

> I have so many questions for you all!! I am going to try to limit myself

to one per email. :-) I will try to keep this short but it makes sense to give

a little bit of history.

> It's particularly hard for me to face how damaged my mother is because I

gave up on fada long ago. He left our whole family when I was in college and my

sister was 17. He did have another woman but I think the impetus was something

else. I am quite sure he has some sort of mental illness/disorder though I am

not sure what it is. I grew up with him as a loving and involved parent, but he

suddenly withdrew when he left and has been like a weird distant relative ever

since. I did a lot of grieving about it.

> My mother has never been diagnosed as BPD but I read SWOE with my jaw

dropping open, it described her so perfectly. (My wife is reading it now, and

she agrees.)

> My childhood was similar, I am sure, to many of yours, with the

unpredictable rages, the physical and emotional abuse. She once forced me to

get down on my hands and knees to beg her forgiveness. When I graduated college

I came home for a brief period before I moved out to start a job, and I had to

leave that house even though she locked herself in the bathroom and threatened

to kill herself. etc, etc.

> There is a lot of mental illness in our family. My father's brother was

schizophrenic/bipolar/paranoid and killed himself in 1978, when I was 4. My

mother's mother was BPD/NPD or both and a real horror show and her fada was not

much better. I was terrified of my grandnada as a child. It's always been

openly discussed in our family that grandnada was damaged and probably NPD; she

was a horrific mother (my mother was actually raised in part by her own

grandparents) and a scary mean grandmother. My mom did leave us alone with her

when requested even though I begged her not to. (My mom would be so, so enraged

if I ever hinted that I thought she was damaged like grandnada. For what it's

worth I think my mom is less atrocious....)

> I have two young children (4 and 2) and I have watched my mom like a hawk

with my own children. So far she has never been awful to them (she sometimes

says things about them that are a little crazy but not so they can hear). They

actually adore her. But I don't plan to leave them alone with her.

> My younger sister is pretty damaged too, unfortunately. She married a man

who is BPD/NPD/sociopathic, in my opinion. He is currently incarcerated for

raping a minor. He, and my sister, insist that he is innocent and was framed.

My BPD mother goes back and forth on what she believes. My mom and sister live

very close to each other (I, THANK GOD, live several hours away) and there is a

lot of enmeshment going on. My sister and her 5 year old son are being entirely

supported by my mom and her MIL (who is also one of the most difficult

personalities I have ever met in my life, and I actually have been shut out of

the family periodically by both my mom and my sister because of boundaries I set

with my sister's MIL). My sister and I do talk about my mom and how difficult

she is and how to deal with her. I have shared my thoughts about BPD. My

sister is too dependent on my mom for childcare not to leave her son alone with

nada, unfortunately.

> About a month ago, my mother's husband of ten years passed away. I didn't

know him terribly well but he was a sweet, kind, good man and probably the best

grandparent that my children had (since my parents are both PD and my wife's

parents are unfortunately deceased). Part of my facing how sick my mom really is

has been watching her react to his death. She just carries on and on about how

his adult sons aren't treating her right and people aren't " celebrating his

widow " appropriately. Really. Once or twice she has mentioned missing him, but

her every day phone calls are to rail about how the world is not properly

honoring her. It's chilling because he was such a lovely man. (And I know she

was pretty horrible to him. He had dementia and was losing function/memory. My

wife and I overheard her raging at him because she was angry that he forgot

things. We looked into elder abuse charges but didn't feel like we could have

improved his condition. It broke my heart to hear her, because it sounded just

like how she treated me as a child. Except that I knew I would eventually grow

up and get away. And he had no such comfort. I can't help but wonder if he

wanted to die, and that thought haunts me.)

> I have a million questions about how to proceed now that I have realized

that I think BPD is what's going on here. But I'll try to start with one. Nada

is currently out of the country, on a vacation she had planned before her

husband's death. She's away for another week. Since she has been gone the

contact has been far, far less -- some needy emails, and alas, one phone call,

but she can't really figure out the technology to call too often. It has been

WONDERFUL. I need to figure out a way to keep her at bay when she returns. My

family is leaving for vacation the day she returns, and I don't want to have to

spend my entire week at the beach on the phone with her.

> I guess I basically have 2 options. I can decide how often to speak to

her (once a day? every other day?) and then just answer or not answer my phone

accordingly. Or I can explicitly tell her the rules. I'm wondering what people

think is a better strategy. I have certainly tried to set boundaries with her

before but never quite so explicitly.

> I know this is really long, thank you for reading.

> Leah

>

[Guest guest]

Leah, I swear I had to reread it twice to be sure it wasn't coming from someone

in my family! lol! Totally can relate! I found that rules and boundaries are

best kept to yourself and your spouse. I tried to lay down the rules, and it

ended in a terrible fight, and so I approached them again this weekend, and am

in communication with them again, although I definitely have to watch my

boundaries and rules to keep them from walking all over me again. My daughter

is older than your kids, and so she is capable of understanding my limits and

placing some of her own. I think allowing this is very empowering for my dd,

something that I never felt, at least not until I read SWOE. Good luck to you,

it isn't easy, but it is worth it.

Tina

> >

> > I have so many questions for you all!! I am going to try to limit

myself to one per email. :-) I will try to keep this short but it makes sense

to give a little bit of history.

> > It's particularly hard for me to face how damaged my mother is because I

gave up on fada long ago. He left our whole family when I was in college and my

sister was 17. He did have another woman but I think the impetus was something

else. I am quite sure he has some sort of mental illness/disorder though I am

not sure what it is. I grew up with him as a loving and involved parent, but he

suddenly withdrew when he left and has been like a weird distant relative ever

since. I did a lot of grieving about it.

> > My mother has never been diagnosed as BPD but I read SWOE with my jaw

dropping open, it described her so perfectly. (My wife is reading it now, and

she agrees.)

> > My childhood was similar, I am sure, to many of yours, with the

unpredictable rages, the physical and emotional abuse. She once forced me to

get down on my hands and knees to beg her forgiveness. When I graduated college

I came home for a brief period before I moved out to start a job, and I had to

leave that house even though she locked herself in the bathroom and threatened

to kill herself. etc, etc.

> > There is a lot of mental illness in our family. My father's brother

was schizophrenic/bipolar/paranoid and killed himself in 1978, when I was 4. My

mother's mother was BPD/NPD or both and a real horror show and her fada was not

much better. I was terrified of my grandnada as a child. It's always been

openly discussed in our family that grandnada was damaged and probably NPD; she

was a horrific mother (my mother was actually raised in part by her own

grandparents) and a scary mean grandmother. My mom did leave us alone with her

when requested even though I begged her not to. (My mom would be so, so enraged

if I ever hinted that I thought she was damaged like grandnada. For what it's

worth I think my mom is less atrocious....)

> > I have two young children (4 and 2) and I have watched my mom like a

hawk with my own children. So far she has never been awful to them (she

sometimes says things about them that are a little crazy but not so they can

hear). They actually adore her. But I don't plan to leave them alone with her.

> > My younger sister is pretty damaged too, unfortunately. She married a

man who is BPD/NPD/sociopathic, in my opinion. He is currently incarcerated for

raping a minor. He, and my sister, insist that he is innocent and was framed.

My BPD mother goes back and forth on what she believes. My mom and sister live

very close to each other (I, THANK GOD, live several hours away) and there is a

lot of enmeshment going on. My sister and her 5 year old son are being entirely

supported by my mom and her MIL (who is also one of the most difficult

personalities I have ever met in my life, and I actually have been shut out of

the family periodically by both my mom and my sister because of boundaries I set

with my sister's MIL). My sister and I do talk about my mom and how difficult

she is and how to deal with her. I have shared my thoughts about BPD. My

sister is too dependent on my mom for childcare not to leave her son alone with

nada, unfortunately.

> > About a month ago, my mother's husband of ten years passed away. I

didn't know him terribly well but he was a sweet, kind, good man and probably

the best grandparent that my children had (since my parents are both PD and my

wife's parents are unfortunately deceased). Part of my facing how sick my mom

really is has been watching her react to his death. She just carries on and on

about how his adult sons aren't treating her right and people aren't

" celebrating his widow " appropriately. Really. Once or twice she has mentioned

missing him, but her every day phone calls are to rail about how the world is

not properly honoring her. It's chilling because he was such a lovely man. (And

I know she was pretty horrible to him. He had dementia and was losing

function/memory. My wife and I overheard her raging at him because she was

angry that he forgot things. We looked into elder abuse charges but didn't feel

like we could have improved his condition. It broke my heart to hear her,

because it sounded just like how she treated me as a child. Except that I knew

I would eventually grow up and get away. And he had no such comfort. I can't

help but wonder if he wanted to die, and that thought haunts me.)

> > I have a million questions about how to proceed now that I have

realized that I think BPD is what's going on here. But I'll try to start with

one. Nada is currently out of the country, on a vacation she had planned before

her husband's death. She's away for another week. Since she has been gone the

contact has been far, far less -- some needy emails, and alas, one phone call,

but she can't really figure out the technology to call too often. It has been

WONDERFUL. I need to figure out a way to keep her at bay when she returns. My

family is leaving for vacation the day she returns, and I don't want to have to

spend my entire week at the beach on the phone with her.

> > I guess I basically have 2 options. I can decide how often to speak to

her (once a day? every other day?) and then just answer or not answer my phone

accordingly. Or I can explicitly tell her the rules. I'm wondering what people

think is a better strategy. I have certainly tried to set boundaries with her

before but never quite so explicitly.

> > I know this is really long, thank you for reading.

> > Leah

> >

>