Guest guest Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she doesn't realize she's the one doing them. For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and beg me that that would never happen to our little family that we would stay together no matter what and we could work through it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the family apart, the one that cried about this never happening that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing to do that. I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will we ever have a relationship again. The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she has to play the victim drama queen. When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then she can clearly do that with our extended family. I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because I don't know how to deal with it! I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she can never move on from this we will never have a relationship again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go get help. But I can't and I don't. Thanks, L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 What she says to you are the things people say to themselves when they want to justify hurting someone. It's not necessarily true, but nada is angry and wants to lash out, so she does. She says you're mean and so on to avoid feeling guilty about it. In other words, it doesn't make it true. You are in pain. It hurts to have a mother who treats you this way. It might help to let yourself not think about the future or even try to understand why this has happened, and just acknowledge that this is a very sad time for you and be extra kind to yourself. As much as you want nada to recognize that she is ill and needs help, you are the one who is suffering. You are the one who needs comfort, and understanding, and kindness. Take care, Ashana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 L, I don't think you will ever get nada to see her role in any of your situation. It just seems that, even if you reconcile with her, shunning you from FB and turning others against you will be her way of " keeping you in line. " It's too bad your brother, sister, and stepfather simply fall into line when she tells them not to talk to you. It says a lot about your whole family's dynamics, the triangulation. Mine is exactly the same. I don't know if you're in therapy but I find it very helpful for myself to work out all the nada craziness. We're here for you! Fiona > > Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and beg me that that would never happen to our little family that we would stay together no matter what and we could work through it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the family apart, the one that cried about this never happening that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing to do that. > > I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will we ever have a relationship again. > > The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she has to play the victim drama queen. > > When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because I don't know how to deal with it! > > I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she can never move on from this we will never have a relationship again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go get help. But I can't and I don't. > > Thanks, > > L > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 L, Having things get worse is a common result of coming to understand that BPD is the problem and that boundaries need to be set. Nadas really, really don't like it when we start trying to take control of the situation and of our own lives. If you haven't done so already, you need to face the reality that your nada isn't going to take responsibility for her actions or otherwise stop acting like she has BPD. She won't really change, but your new knowledge gives you the power to change how you react to her. You're right when you say she can't let go or move on. That's part of what BPD does. My nada is still carrying around complaints about things that happened over 50 years ago, before I was born. Not only is she holding on to those complaints, at least some of them are fabrications. For example, she talks about how my father refused to teach her to drive after they got married yet my uncle has assured me that she was the one who drove her younger brothers around while she was in high school. I'm sure she had some petty complaint that was based in reality at the time and over the years it snowballed into him refusing to teach her to drive. He divorced her over 30 years ago yet she still feels the need to talk about complaints like this one. Your step-father, brother and sister are all capable of deciding to talk to you if they want to do so. Presumably they all know your nada well enough to see that there is something not right about her behavior. If knowing that, they choose to believe her and turn against you, that's their choice and out of your control. Sadly, some people find it easier to side with the person with BPD then to make decisions of their own and fight against the bad behavior. Sometimes they just feel powerless against the crazy or feel they're protecting someone else by going along with it. When that happens, sometimes the best you can do is to make it known that you're available when they decide to reach out to you. You deal with it by living the rest of your life. You can't make her have a relationship with you if she chooses to not be speaking to you. You can't explain to her that you are not a mean person and just want to move on because she's not willing to hear that or understand it. She can't/won't believe that she is at fault so she has to believe that you, and anyone else who doesn't agree with her, is the cause of the problem. That's the way BPD works. If you wait her out, she may just pop up in your life one day acting like there was never anything wrong. That's common nada behavior. Before she does, you might want to think about what you want to get out of having a relationship with her, armed with the knowledge that you can't change her. If you're prepared with good boundaries when she reappears in your life, you have a much better chance of being able to have a relationship that isn't damaging to you. At 07:20 PM 08/14/2012 ponnie5 wrote: >Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because >I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has >been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she >doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the >victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she >doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > >For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 >years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and >beg me that that would never happen to our little family that >we would stay together no matter what and we could work through >it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each >other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually >been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a >bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one >ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended >me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some >horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated >with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks >I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me >are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad >at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > >I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the >family apart, the one that cried about this never happening >that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing >to do that. > >I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I >said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm >willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move >on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things >go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will >we ever have a relationship again. > >The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that >means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step >father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me >into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they >see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the >enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I >in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she >has to play the victim drama queen. > >When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them >because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly >wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it >wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And >if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial >thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then >she can clearly do that with our extended family. > >I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped >then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her >it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because >I don't know how to deal with it! > >I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes >me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to >move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she >can never move on from this we will never have a relationship >again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of >last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. >But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go >get help. But I can't and I don't. > >Thanks, > >L > > -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 The best advice I ever got was from a bpd person themself (but they were in therapy for it) I was complaining about nada and all the things she did and he looked me right in the eye and said " You have to stop expecting her to act rationally. She has bpd, she will never react in the way that 99% of people would and that glimmer inside you of hope that springs eternal that just once she'll do the right thing will never happen. Stop expecting it to. She will always behave badly. Expect and be prepared as to how you want to handle it. What is your end goal.-you control the situation, not her. To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 3:20 PM Subject: Re: I don't know how to deal.  L, Having things get worse is a common result of coming to understand that BPD is the problem and that boundaries need to be set. Nadas really, really don't like it when we start trying to take control of the situation and of our own lives. If you haven't done so already, you need to face the reality that your nada isn't going to take responsibility for her actions or otherwise stop acting like she has BPD. She won't really change, but your new knowledge gives you the power to change how you react to her. You're right when you say she can't let go or move on. That's part of what BPD does. My nada is still carrying around complaints about things that happened over 50 years ago, before I was born. Not only is she holding on to those complaints, at least some of them are fabrications. For example, she talks about how my father refused to teach her to drive after they got married yet my uncle has assured me that she was the one who drove her younger brothers around while she was in high school. I'm sure she had some petty complaint that was based in reality at the time and over the years it snowballed into him refusing to teach her to drive. He divorced her over 30 years ago yet she still feels the need to talk about complaints like this one. Your step-father, brother and sister are all capable of deciding to talk to you if they want to do so. Presumably they all know your nada well enough to see that there is something not right about her behavior. If knowing that, they choose to believe her and turn against you, that's their choice and out of your control. Sadly, some people find it easier to side with the person with BPD then to make decisions of their own and fight against the bad behavior. Sometimes they just feel powerless against the crazy or feel they're protecting someone else by going along with it. When that happens, sometimes the best you can do is to make it known that you're available when they decide to reach out to you. You deal with it by living the rest of your life. You can't make her have a relationship with you if she chooses to not be speaking to you. You can't explain to her that you are not a mean person and just want to move on because she's not willing to hear that or understand it. She can't/won't believe that she is at fault so she has to believe that you, and anyone else who doesn't agree with her, is the cause of the problem. That's the way BPD works. If you wait her out, she may just pop up in your life one day acting like there was never anything wrong. That's common nada behavior. Before she does, you might want to think about what you want to get out of having a relationship with her, armed with the knowledge that you can't change her. If you're prepared with good boundaries when she reappears in your life, you have a much better chance of being able to have a relationship that isn't damaging to you. At 07:20 PM 08/14/2012 ponnie5 wrote: >Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because >I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has >been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she >doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the >victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she >doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > >For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 >years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and >beg me that that would never happen to our little family that >we would stay together no matter what and we could work through >it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each >other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually >been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a >bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one >ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended >me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some >horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated >with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks >I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me >are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad >at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > >I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the >family apart, the one that cried about this never happening >that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing >to do that. > >I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I >said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm >willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move >on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things >go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will >we ever have a relationship again. > >The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that >means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step >father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me >into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they >see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the >enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I >in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she >has to play the victim drama queen. > >When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them >because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly >wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it >wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And >if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial >thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then >she can clearly do that with our extended family. > >I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped >then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her >it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because >I don't know how to deal with it! > >I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes >me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to >move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she >can never move on from this we will never have a relationship >again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of >last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. >But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go >get help. But I can't and I don't. > >Thanks, > >L > > -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Hello, My heart goes out to you. All I ever wanted from nada was some sort of understanding, willingness to listen and talk things through. A simple " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " would have meant the world to me. I hate to tell you this- but you will never get that. Part of having BPD is the inability to process constructive criticism. She will forever take innocent actions of yours and make them wounding towards her. Everything is a personal affront unless you bend to her every need. But even if you did that it would never be enough. The more you give the more they take. Then you end of being so drained you are a shell of a person. Have you ever noticed that arguing with her is like talking in circles to a brick wall? It's maddening! I often wondered if I was the crazy one. To this day I ask my husband, " Is this normal? " about feelings I have. Nada's sense of normalcy was so warped I honestly don't know whats normal or appropriate sometimes. I know how bad it hurts right now. You want a loving healthy relationship with your mother. But your mother is mentally ill- it'll never be normal. You probably will never get what you are looking for- the ability to talk things through. It hurts. I would start working on accepting that and learning to set boundaries and stop playing her games. There are a lot great BPD books out there like Stop Walking on Eggshells. I think your very best bet right now would be to get a good therapist who understands BPD. I know this is not what you want to hear. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. But we are here when you need advice or to just vent. One last note- you are NOT a horrible person. The need to slander loved ones and friends who don't bend to your every whim is part of the BPD. > > Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and beg me that that would never happen to our little family that we would stay together no matter what and we could work through it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the family apart, the one that cried about this never happening that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing to do that. > > I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will we ever have a relationship again. > > The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she has to play the victim drama queen. > > When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because I don't know how to deal with it! > > I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she can never move on from this we will never have a relationship again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go get help. But I can't and I don't. > > Thanks, > > L > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Wow, well said!!! > >Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because > >I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has > >been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she > >doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the > >victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she > >doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > > >For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 > >years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and > >beg me that that would never happen to our little family that > >we would stay together no matter what and we could work through > >it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each > >other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually > >been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a > >bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one > >ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended > >me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some > >horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated > >with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks > >I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me > >are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad > >at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > > >I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the > >family apart, the one that cried about this never happening > >that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing > >to do that. > > > >I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I > >said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm > >willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move > >on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things > >go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will > >we ever have a relationship again. > > > >The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that > >means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step > >father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me > >into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they > >see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the > >enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I > >in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she > >has to play the victim drama queen. > > > >When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them > >because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly > >wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it > >wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And > >if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial > >thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then > >she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > > >I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped > >then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her > >it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because > >I don't know how to deal with it! > > > >I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes > >me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to > >move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she > >can never move on from this we will never have a relationship > >again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of > >last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. > >But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go > >get help. But I can't and I don't. > > > >Thanks, > > > >L > > > > > > -- > Katrina > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 , that is excellent advice. I really admire your friend for being in therapy and seeing things as they truly are. > >Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because > >I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has > >been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she > >doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the > >victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she > >doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > > >For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 > >years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and > >beg me that that would never happen to our little family that > >we would stay together no matter what and we could work through > >it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each > >other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually > >been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a > >bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one > >ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended > >me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some > >horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated > >with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks > >I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me > >are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad > >at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > > >I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the > >family apart, the one that cried about this never happening > >that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing > >to do that. > > > >I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I > >said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm > >willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move > >on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things > >go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will > >we ever have a relationship again. > > > >The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that > >means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step > >father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me > >into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they > >see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the > >enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I > >in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she > >has to play the victim drama queen. > > > >When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them > >because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly > >wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it > >wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And > >if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial > >thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then > >she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > > >I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped > >then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her > >it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because > >I don't know how to deal with it! > > > >I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes > >me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to > >move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she > >can never move on from this we will never have a relationship > >again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of > >last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. > >But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go > >get help. But I can't and I don't. > > > >Thanks, > > > >L > > > > > > -- > Katrina > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " , Me too! I was thinking this past weekend about what exactly it is I at times still want from nada. Because I think most of us may deep down still be in search of something from our nadas that they simply are not equipped to give us. And I realized my variation of " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " is what I wanted. Just an I'm sorry. But she gives me nothing of the kind and I'll never get it. I remembered two things this weekend: 1) I recalled once, as an older teenager, I apologized to nada for some stupid thing I did when I was younger and asked her forgiveness. I still remember how touched she looked by my sincere apology--and how entitled she seemed. But she said nothing back that truly released me or assured me it would be forgotten or anything of the kind! She loved it. 2) I remembered as I was developing, nada would tell me how my breasts looked like prostitutes' breasts, like they'd been handled too much (I guess she knew prostitutes!). I wish I could express how ashamed that made me feel, even though I'd never even been kissed! And then she said, " But mine are lifted and have a nice shape, see? " I shuddered remembering that. Again, if I brought that up to her today, expecting an apology, I would get a big goose egg. Sigh. All of that to say, I hear ya. For me, no longer expecting this from nada has meant finding friendship and relationship with a good circle of friends who do affirm me and accept me and love me without manipulation. Fiona > > > > Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > > > For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and beg me that that would never happen to our little family that we would stay together no matter what and we could work through it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > > > I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the family apart, the one that cried about this never happening that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing to do that. > > > > I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will we ever have a relationship again. > > > > The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she has to play the victim drama queen. > > > > When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > > > I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because I don't know how to deal with it! > > > > I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she can never move on from this we will never have a relationship again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go get help. But I can't and I don't. > > > > Thanks, > > > > L > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 My nada offered apologies sometimes after she'd had a red-faced, spittle-flying, screaming rage-tantrum at Sister or me and had terrified the crap out of us, but her promises evaporated; she never was able to follow through and stop herself from exploding with rage, or stop herself from smacking us around, shredding us with emotional abuse or hitting us with the belt when she'd trigger into another rage. Nada had two main behaviors in the immediate aftermath of one of these rage episodes; one was that Nada would break down into hysterical sobbing and beg us to come to her, hug her and reassure her that we loved her. She'd promise that she wouldn't do that to us again, even though claiming that we " made her " do it. Our own pain, outrage, and real fear of her had to be stuffed down and ignored. Both Sister and I learned really early in life that if we didn't go to her and instead showed our fear of her or our own anger, our own hurt feelings, nada could trigger right into ANOTHER RAGE right then and there. Nada's other main behavior after such an explosive rage was to act as though nothing at all had just happened. She'd leave us on the floor sobbing and shaking and just walk away; she might even be all perky and cheerful, and start singing. We were expected to also behave as though nothing had just happened and we weren't upset, angry, or scared. I recall one incident in which my nada was working herself up into a full rage at me; she was looming over me and glaring at me with those fully-dilated pupils so that her eyes looked black, and I was standing between the kitchen and the dining room and could see the large wall clock near the fridge. I was so afraid I was stuttering, and was so little that I couldn't tell time well yet, but I knew it was getting close to suppertime. I asked nada (imagine this spoken in a pronounced stutter), " Isn't daddy going to be home soon? " And I saw my nada's face go slack, her eyes lost their intense focus on me, she stood upright, turned away from me and walked off, as though her building rage was shut off like a light switch and I wasn't even there. That is a very distinct memory for me; I couldn't have been more than about 5. In my opinion, my nada was way, way too dysfunctional, her bpd was too severe for her to have been raising children virtually alone like that. Sister and I both wound up pretty severely emotionally damaged. We both still have some ptsd symptoms, were unnaturally compliant and obedient (think: robot-zombie children) and had severe trust issues with other adults. I lost my ability to really feel my emotions although my memories are pretty intact, and I ended up totally enmeshed with my parents as my only social outlet until I was in my mid-thirties. Sister developed big chunks of childhood amnesia, she recalls only a few major incidents and little else. Neither Sister nor I have ever had a long-term, adult relationship although Sister wanted very badly to be a mother and did become one. Sister actually did a really great job raising her own child; he's a generally happy, successful young husband and father himself, now, working in the field he had always wanted to be in, and he was always such a sweet and funny kid. I realized early on that I wasn't interested in being either a wife or a mother, but later in life I've been able to find happiness in friendship and I've had an increasingly successful career in my field of choice. I tend to have avoidant pd traits and Sister tends to have ocpd traits, but I think we're both sub-clinical and aware of our dysfunctional traits, and work at overcoming them. But thank GOD we both dodged the borderline pd " bullet. " Thank you, Lord. Anyway, that's my background. This long post is by way of saying that even though I DID get apologies from my nada, rather often, I learned that they meant nothing. She was just feeling frightened for *herself* and only wanted reassurance for *herself*, she wasn't actually sorry or even concerned about the feelings of her little children, or remorseful about what she'd done to us. Nada told me once that she felt that we " had to " love her, no matter what she did or said to us. (!!) Well, if that doesn't shine a huge spotlight on just how messed up bpd/npd thinking truly is, then, I don't know what does. -Annie > > " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " > > , > > Me too! I was thinking this past weekend about what exactly it is I at times still want from nada. > > Because I think most of us may deep down still be in search of something from our nadas that they simply are not equipped to give us. > > And I realized my variation of " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " is what I wanted. Just an I'm sorry. But she gives me nothing of the kind and I'll never get it. > > I remembered two things this weekend: > 1) I recalled once, as an older teenager, I apologized to nada for some stupid thing I did when I was younger and asked her forgiveness. I still remember how touched she looked by my sincere apology--and how entitled she seemed. But she said nothing back that truly released me or assured me it would be forgotten or anything of the kind! She loved it. > > 2) I remembered as I was developing, nada would tell me how my breasts looked like prostitutes' breasts, like they'd been handled too much (I guess she knew prostitutes!). I wish I could express how ashamed that made me feel, even though I'd never even been kissed! And then she said, " But mine are lifted and have a nice shape, see? " I shuddered remembering that. Again, if I brought that up to her today, expecting an apology, I would get a big goose egg. > > Sigh. All of that to say, I hear ya. For me, no longer expecting this from nada has meant finding friendship and relationship with a good circle of friends who do affirm me and accept me and love me without manipulation. > > Fiona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hi Fiona, I wanted to comment on the #2 memory of yours, from when you were a young teen. It struck me that what your nada said to you was a textbook example of projection on her part. She was looking at your body and projecting her own feelings *about her own body* onto you. She even " switched bodies " with you: she described your shape as *hers* and assigned her older shape to *you*. Its just rather astonishing when you can analyze these amazingly dysfunctional ways of thinking and interacting with people that bpds do, from the perspective of time and distance, but when its actually happening to you and you are very young, trusting, vulnerable and naive, it is a truly devastating, hurtful, and even traumatizing experience to be spoken to like that, *particularly* by your own mother. And it was so very inappropriate. Your nada crossed several boundaries when she did that to you, made you ashamed of your own body like that. Some bpds truly have NO capacity to feel empathy, to see things from another person's perspective, plus they have this sense that they are entitled to blurt out whatever they want to say to their own child: so what if its incredibly hurtful or not even true!!?? They have NO brakes in their minds, it would seem, or virtually none; it would appear that the executive function in the bpd brain/mind is barely operational. I wanted to point out that really remarkable example of " pure projection " , because it was so distinctly that, and I'm so sorry that your nada subjected you to it. -Annie > > " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " > > , > > Me too! I was thinking this past weekend about what exactly it is I at times still want from nada. > > Because I think most of us may deep down still be in search of something from our nadas that they simply are not equipped to give us. > > And I realized my variation of " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " is what I wanted. Just an I'm sorry. But she gives me nothing of the kind and I'll never get it. > > I remembered two things this weekend: > 1) I recalled once, as an older teenager, I apologized to nada for some stupid thing I did when I was younger and asked her forgiveness. I still remember how touched she looked by my sincere apology--and how entitled she seemed. But she said nothing back that truly released me or assured me it would be forgotten or anything of the kind! She loved it. > > 2) I remembered as I was developing, nada would tell me how my breasts looked like prostitutes' breasts, like they'd been handled too much (I guess she knew prostitutes!). I wish I could express how ashamed that made me feel, even though I'd never even been kissed! And then she said, " But mine are lifted and have a nice shape, see? " I shuddered remembering that. Again, if I brought that up to her today, expecting an apology, I would get a big goose egg. > > Sigh. All of that to say, I hear ya. For me, no longer expecting this from nada has meant finding friendship and relationship with a good circle of friends who do affirm me and accept me and love me without manipulation. > > Fiona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Annie, WOW, just wow, I have heard of nadas that do that verbally and physically attack their children and then seek reassurances from their petrified babies. Mine followed the pattern of verbally and sometimes physically abusing me to the point I would break down crying and THEN she would go into nice, reassuring mom mode. It was like she had to make be upset to the point of shaking and crying to be nice. That was her M.O. for most of my life even as I was an adult, until I refused to engage with her anymore. C > > > > " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " > > > > , > > > > Me too! I was thinking this past weekend about what exactly it is I at times still want from nada. > > > > Because I think most of us may deep down still be in search of something from our nadas that they simply are not equipped to give us. > > > > And I realized my variation of " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " is what I wanted. Just an I'm sorry. But she gives me nothing of the kind and I'll never get it. > > > > I remembered two things this weekend: > > 1) I recalled once, as an older teenager, I apologized to nada for some stupid thing I did when I was younger and asked her forgiveness. I still remember how touched she looked by my sincere apology--and how entitled she seemed. But she said nothing back that truly released me or assured me it would be forgotten or anything of the kind! She loved it. > > > > 2) I remembered as I was developing, nada would tell me how my breasts looked like prostitutes' breasts, like they'd been handled too much (I guess she knew prostitutes!). I wish I could express how ashamed that made me feel, even though I'd never even been kissed! And then she said, " But mine are lifted and have a nice shape, see? " I shuddered remembering that. Again, if I brought that up to her today, expecting an apology, I would get a big goose egg. > > > > Sigh. All of that to say, I hear ya. For me, no longer expecting this from nada has meant finding friendship and relationship with a good circle of friends who do affirm me and accept me and love me without manipulation. > > > > Fiona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Fiona, what a terrible thing for your nada to say about your body. I am so sorry. I do not understand and never will, why they say such horrible hateful things about the children they are supposed to love and protect. :-( C > > > > > > Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > > > > > For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and beg me that that would never happen to our little family that we would stay together no matter what and we could work through it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > > > > > I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the family apart, the one that cried about this never happening that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing to do that. > > > > > > I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will we ever have a relationship again. > > > > > > The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she has to play the victim drama queen. > > > > > > When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > > > > > I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because I don't know how to deal with it! > > > > > > I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she can never move on from this we will never have a relationship again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go get help. But I can't and I don't. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > L > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hi Fiona, Nada never released me or assured me I was forgiven either. I think that is so horrible and it has truly scarred me. To this day if the person I apologize to, even if it's to a stranger over something insignificant, I obsess and can't let it go if they don't make it clear that I am forgiven. I feel angry remembering this- I could just smack that touched/entitled look we both know so well right off her face. Also, nada always felt the need to comment on my body as well. In my case it was my behind- she said it was so big she could set a drink on it like a shelf, or that it had " a life of it's own " . This coming from a woman who was 5'3 " and almost 300 pounds to an impressionable teenager who was 5'6 " and 120 lbs!!!! No wonder I developed an eating disorder and alternately binged and starved myself for years. I'm just now, at 34, beginning to control myself and give myself a break. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this too. I am just horrified at her comment about your breasts- that is a terrible thing to say. And to then point out how hers were " better " ?? My gosh it just shows how SICK nadas are. Most likely she was jealous over her own daughter's body and needed to make herself feel better. How wrong and just so wounding for you. I want to hug you as a teen and tell you not to listen to her! > > > > > > Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > > > > > For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and beg me that that would never happen to our little family that we would stay together no matter what and we could work through it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > > > > > I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the family apart, the one that cried about this never happening that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing to do that. > > > > > > I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will we ever have a relationship again. > > > > > > The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she has to play the victim drama queen. > > > > > > When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > > > > > I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because I don't know how to deal with it! > > > > > > I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she can never move on from this we will never have a relationship again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go get help. But I can't and I don't. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > L > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thank you all for the support and encouragement. You all had some great advice. Yes, I am in therapy with a very good therapist who understands BPD and has been helping me through it. It's only been a year and I feel like I'm going to be still going for a while to help understand and deal with this. This group is great to learn that people are going through the exact same thing that their BPD person has done exactly what my Nada has done. It's comforting to know I'm not the only one dealing. " You have to stop expecting her to act rationally " - that is a great point, because that's what I do. I always think, why doesn't she just see, why she blowing this out of control. But if she can't think rationally then it'll never happen. Yes, the Complaint thing, I've never heard anyone complain about the smallest things that happened 20 years ago like it happened yesterday. I think about that and feel sad for my Nada, because that must be really hard to live like that. But at the same time I'm like " let it go! " Thank you! > > >Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because > > >I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has > > >been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she > > >doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the > > >victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she > > >doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > > > > >For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 > > >years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and > > >beg me that that would never happen to our little family that > > >we would stay together no matter what and we could work through > > >it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each > > >other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually > > >been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a > > >bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one > > >ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended > > >me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some > > >horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated > > >with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks > > >I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me > > >are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad > > >at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > > > > >I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the > > >family apart, the one that cried about this never happening > > >that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing > > >to do that. > > > > > >I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I > > >said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm > > >willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move > > >on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things > > >go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will > > >we ever have a relationship again. > > > > > >The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that > > >means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step > > >father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me > > >into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they > > >see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the > > >enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I > > >in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she > > >has to play the victim drama queen. > > > > > >When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them > > >because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly > > >wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it > > >wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And > > >if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial > > >thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then > > >she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > > > > >I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped > > >then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her > > >it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because > > >I don't know how to deal with it! > > > > > >I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes > > >me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to > > >move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she > > >can never move on from this we will never have a relationship > > >again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of > > >last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. > > >But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go > > >get help. But I can't and I don't. > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >L > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Annie, I'm sorry that happened, that must have been really rough. It's so hard dealing with that as a kid. I realized from incidents similar with my Nada that I developed low self esteem, I'm afraid to contradict or stand up for myself because of the reaction I always got if I stood up to Nada. I've realized these things now and where they've come from and how they've developed and am trying to work through. My nada doesn't apologize either. She thinks that if she yelled at us for something, then we deserved it. Or I should have said it another way. Making up all these excuses to make herself feel better. My nada would have crazy fits too. She'd start off angry, angrier then anyone I've ever seen, then she'd emotionally/verbally attack you, then she may threaten herself, or she'd break down crying. At that moment, when the crying comes in and the self guilt, I always pitied her and comforted her. But, you're right all that did was push down my own feelings of what happened. It's just so ironic that my mother has said so many times that I have no empathy or why don't I feel more emotions like she does, and yet she's the one by her actions has taught me to not feel my feelings but only feel hers and feel empathy for her. It's so fascinating and scary how Nada's behavior has effected us down to our core, and then when we try and become our own it gets even harder. > > > > " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " > > > > , > > > > Me too! I was thinking this past weekend about what exactly it is I at times still want from nada. > > > > Because I think most of us may deep down still be in search of something from our nadas that they simply are not equipped to give us. > > > > And I realized my variation of " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " is what I wanted. Just an I'm sorry. But she gives me nothing of the kind and I'll never get it. > > > > I remembered two things this weekend: > > 1) I recalled once, as an older teenager, I apologized to nada for some stupid thing I did when I was younger and asked her forgiveness. I still remember how touched she looked by my sincere apology--and how entitled she seemed. But she said nothing back that truly released me or assured me it would be forgotten or anything of the kind! She loved it. > > > > 2) I remembered as I was developing, nada would tell me how my breasts looked like prostitutes' breasts, like they'd been handled too much (I guess she knew prostitutes!). I wish I could express how ashamed that made me feel, even though I'd never even been kissed! And then she said, " But mine are lifted and have a nice shape, see? " I shuddered remembering that. Again, if I brought that up to her today, expecting an apology, I would get a big goose egg. > > > > Sigh. All of that to say, I hear ya. For me, no longer expecting this from nada has meant finding friendship and relationship with a good circle of friends who do affirm me and accept me and love me without manipulation. > > > > Fiona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 " Nada's other main behavior after such an explosive rage was to act as though nothing at all had just happened. She'd leave us on the floor sobbing and shaking and just walk away; she might even be all perky and cheerful, and start singing. We were expected to also behave as though nothing had just happened and we weren't upset, angry, or scared. " Annie, your description above is how it was with my father. I post mostly about my mother on this board, since my father is deceased. But he was erratically angry, you never knew what would set him off, put him in a stew. As long as we mirrored his emotions and opinions, we would be ok. It was like playing Simon Says always. If my mother was obsessed with what I was thinking or writing, my father was on constant patrol with where I was, what I was reading, my beliefs, well into my adulthood. And, like you said, all of a sudden, he would suddenly be happy and cheerful and you were expected to follow suit. If we didn't put our happy faces on, God help us. No wonder I turned into such a manic people pleaser!! Your story about your experience as a 5 year old was heartbreaking, scary. Also sad and disturbing that, at that age, you could read your mother's physical cues that she was about to rage. > > > > " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " > > > > , > > > > Me too! I was thinking this past weekend about what exactly it is I at times still want from nada. > > > > Because I think most of us may deep down still be in search of something from our nadas that they simply are not equipped to give us. > > > > And I realized my variation of " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " is what I wanted. Just an I'm sorry. But she gives me nothing of the kind and I'll never get it. > > > > I remembered two things this weekend: > > 1) I recalled once, as an older teenager, I apologized to nada for some stupid thing I did when I was younger and asked her forgiveness. I still remember how touched she looked by my sincere apology--and how entitled she seemed. But she said nothing back that truly released me or assured me it would be forgotten or anything of the kind! She loved it. > > > > 2) I remembered as I was developing, nada would tell me how my breasts looked like prostitutes' breasts, like they'd been handled too much (I guess she knew prostitutes!). I wish I could express how ashamed that made me feel, even though I'd never even been kissed! And then she said, " But mine are lifted and have a nice shape, see? " I shuddered remembering that. Again, if I brought that up to her today, expecting an apology, I would get a big goose egg. > > > > Sigh. All of that to say, I hear ya. For me, no longer expecting this from nada has meant finding friendship and relationship with a good circle of friends who do affirm me and accept me and love me without manipulation. > > > > Fiona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 " It struck me that what your nada said to you was a textbook example of projection on her part. She was looking at your body and projecting her own feelings *about her own body* onto you. She even " switched bodies " with you: she described your shape as *hers* and assigned her older shape to *you*. " Annie, That has never occurred to me. Thank you for mentioning this. I wonder if so many other kinds of comments she's made through the years were also a form of projection, now that I think about it...? I recall her telling me in one instance, while combing my hair, that she'd heard that people with small foreheads were intellectually inferior. Then she pulled my hair back (not harshly) to expose my forehead and said, " See, like yours. " She insisted, of course, that she was kidding, and that was that. But who kids like that with their own child? I was about 9 years old. Why would you introduce that kind of thought to a developing person? She continued that line of " kidding " dialogue last summer when she asked me if I deserved a promotion I'd received and insisted she was kidding when she said it. I went NC for a nice long time to thank her for that one! I guess my nada just likes to plant digs whenever possible to make sure I don't think too highly of myself. Anyway, therapy and distancing myself from her have helped a great deal to recover and heal from her " kidding. " thanks for your comment, Annie. Fiona > > > > " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " > > > > , > > > > Me too! I was thinking this past weekend about what exactly it is I at times still want from nada. > > > > Because I think most of us may deep down still be in search of something from our nadas that they simply are not equipped to give us. > > > > And I realized my variation of " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " is what I wanted. Just an I'm sorry. But she gives me nothing of the kind and I'll never get it. > > > > I remembered two things this weekend: > > 1) I recalled once, as an older teenager, I apologized to nada for some stupid thing I did when I was younger and asked her forgiveness. I still remember how touched she looked by my sincere apology--and how entitled she seemed. But she said nothing back that truly released me or assured me it would be forgotten or anything of the kind! She loved it. > > > > 2) I remembered as I was developing, nada would tell me how my breasts looked like prostitutes' breasts, like they'd been handled too much (I guess she knew prostitutes!). I wish I could express how ashamed that made me feel, even though I'd never even been kissed! And then she said, " But mine are lifted and have a nice shape, see? " I shuddered remembering that. Again, if I brought that up to her today, expecting an apology, I would get a big goose egg. > > > > Sigh. All of that to say, I hear ya. For me, no longer expecting this from nada has meant finding friendship and relationship with a good circle of friends who do affirm me and accept me and love me without manipulation. > > > > Fiona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Hi C, Thank you. I agree, it's so good to know there's a name for it. Otherwise, I would still think I was crazy and deserving of comments like that from her and anyone else! No one is deserving of that kind of treatment. > > > > > > > > Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > > > > > > > For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and beg me that that would never happen to our little family that we would stay together no matter what and we could work through it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > > > > > > > I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the family apart, the one that cried about this never happening that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing to do that. > > > > > > > > I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will we ever have a relationship again. > > > > > > > > The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she has to play the victim drama queen. > > > > > > > > When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > > > > > > > I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because I don't know how to deal with it! > > > > > > > > I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she can never move on from this we will never have a relationship again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go get help. But I can't and I don't. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Hi , I guess our nadas knew that a way to control or torment us was by commenting on our bodies. Especially to a young woman, unkind comments about their bodies are so cutting and harmful. And for these comments to come from someone who's supposed to nurture and care for us...that's the worst. Thank you for the hug to the teen me. Fiona > > > > > > > > Lately, I've been getting into huge fights with Nada because I'm realizing all this stuff and her BPD. Our relationship has been getting worse, but I feel like most of this is because she doesn't take responsibility for her actions, she plays the victim, and worse of all she turns things on me when she doesn't realize she's the one doing them. > > > > > > > > For instance, we lost contact with our extended family about 10 years ago and when that happened my Nada would cry to me and beg me that that would never happen to our little family that we would stay together no matter what and we could work through it. With our last fight we decided to take a break from each other, it's been a month with no contact, which has actually been good and bad in some ways, it's been depressing but also a bit freeing in a way. But what kills me is that she's the one ripping the relationship apart, she's the one that unfriended me from FB and won't communicate because she thinks I'm some horrible mean creature and she doesn't want to be associated with me. This kills me, because I am not the person she thinks I am, and I feel like all those things she's feeling towards me are things that she's actually done to me. But when I get mad at her I'm wrong or I deserved it or I'm so mean. > > > > > > > > I hate that she doesn't see she's the one that's ripping the family apart, the one that cried about this never happening that we can work through everything, yet she's not even willing to do that. > > > > > > > > I understand that nada and I had a fight and I will admit I said some mean things in the heat of the moment. But I'm willing to take responsibility for that, talk it over and move on. But she can't move on. She's incapable of letting things go. And if she can't let things go and move on then how will we ever have a relationship again. > > > > > > > > The worst part is that because I'm not speaking with her that means I don't speak to my brother and sister or step father. It's like she's turning them all against me making me into this horrible person that hurt her so badly and when they see her crying and so upset then they look to me as the enemy. That is really heartbreaking to me, that not only am I in a fight with Nada but now with the entire family because she has to play the victim drama queen. > > > > > > > > When my extended family had stopped contact I hated them because I was hurt and I saw that my Nada was so badly wounded. Now, I'm back in contact with them and realize it wasn't all their fault, that Nada had a lot to do with it. And if Nada can kick me out, her daughter, with such a trivial thing as what happened (I'd rather not get into details) then she can clearly do that with our extended family. > > > > > > > > I realize with BPD that their emotions are like 100x more amped then a regular person so even if I did a little thing to her it's blown out of proportion. And this makes me crazy because I don't know how to deal with it! > > > > > > > > I want to explain to her that I'm not the mean person she makes me out to be, that I want a relationship, that I just want to move on, but she can't do that. Why? I'm afraid that if she can never move on from this we will never have a relationship again. She's not diagnosed but she's seeing a therapist as of last I spoke to her, so hopefully something will come of it. But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, you have BPD go get help. But I can't and I don't. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I agree with you: when disparaging, insulting remarks are made and then explained away as a " joke " , that's actually an example of being " passive-aggressive " . Mutual joking and teasing back and forth is an entirely different thing. But when the " joker " has all the power in the relationship, and the target of the " jokes " has no power or status in the relationship: no mutual " joking " in return is permitted, then the " joking " is just a form of verbal abuse, insult or bullying in disguise. Passive-agressive acts are a way for a person to display their very real hostility toward another, but indirectly. Their anger, hatred, jealousy, envy, or resentment are just wearing the " comedy mask " , or the " Oops, gee, I forgot " mask. ( " Oops, did I forget that you are allergic to tree nuts... again? Gee, sorry about that. " " Oops, where did the time go? Gee, sorry I'm 3 hours late picking you up... again. " etc.) Dealing with a passive-aggressive person is one of the most difficult things there is, from what I've read about it, because if the perp is very skillful and subtle about committing the passive-aggressive acts, they create the illusion of " plausible deniability " . The only way to expose them is over time. One incident, or two incidents, can be explained away, but a repetitive pattern of " jokes " or " Oops " incidents are not so easy to explain away. I'm so sorry your own mother directed such hostility toward you when you were so young and trusting and vulnerable, and I'm glad for you that you now have the emotional distance to protect yourself from more of your nada's passive-aggressive barbs. -Annie > > " It struck me that what your nada said to you was a textbook example of projection on her part. She was looking at your body and projecting her own feelings *about her own body* onto you. She even " switched bodies " with you: she described your shape as *hers* and assigned her older shape to *you*. " > > Annie, > > That has never occurred to me. Thank you for mentioning this. I wonder if so many other kinds of comments she's made through the years were also a form of projection, now that I think about it...? > > I recall her telling me in one instance, while combing my hair, that she'd heard that people with small foreheads were intellectually inferior. Then she pulled my hair back (not harshly) to expose my forehead and said, " See, like yours. " > > She insisted, of course, that she was kidding, and that was that. But who kids like that with their own child? I was about 9 years old. Why would you introduce that kind of thought to a developing person? > > She continued that line of " kidding " dialogue last summer when she asked me if I deserved a promotion I'd received and insisted she was kidding when she said it. I went NC for a nice long time to thank her for that one! > > I guess my nada just likes to plant digs whenever possible to make sure I don't think too highly of myself. > > Anyway, therapy and distancing myself from her have helped a great deal to recover and heal from her " kidding. " > > thanks for your comment, Annie. > > Fiona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Fiona, Annie, I agree it was a textbook example of projection, but I would it was triggered by her jealousy. I think a lot of mothers, especially those with BPD/NPD/HPD, are unnerved by their adolescent daughters coming of age. The daughter begins to receive attention the mother still wants. Instead of helping their daughters navigate adolescence they make biting comments that wreak havoc on the daughter's esteem and psyche. I am just now beginning to acknowledge the hurtful comments that not only caused me pain then but also had an adverse effect on me. Someone said it best in one the chains: " Stop expecting rational behavior from irrational people " . It actually liberates you once you can look at your NADA and admit/accept she may never be better than she is today. It allows you to figure out your plan and what boundaries you want to accept for your well being. Take good care, MyReality67 > > > > > > " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " > > > > > > , > > > > > > Me too! I was thinking this past weekend about what exactly it is I at times still want from nada. > > > > > > Because I think most of us may deep down still be in search of something from our nadas that they simply are not equipped to give us. > > > > > > And I realized my variation of " I understand and I'm sorry I made you feel that way " is what I wanted. Just an I'm sorry. But she gives me nothing of the kind and I'll never get it. > > > > > > I remembered two things this weekend: > > > 1) I recalled once, as an older teenager, I apologized to nada for some stupid thing I did when I was younger and asked her forgiveness. I still remember how touched she looked by my sincere apology--and how entitled she seemed. But she said nothing back that truly released me or assured me it would be forgotten or anything of the kind! She loved it. > > > > > > 2) I remembered as I was developing, nada would tell me how my breasts looked like prostitutes' breasts, like they'd been handled too much (I guess she knew prostitutes!). I wish I could express how ashamed that made me feel, even though I'd never even been kissed! And then she said, " But mine are lifted and have a nice shape, see? " I shuddered remembering that. Again, if I brought that up to her today, expecting an apology, I would get a big goose egg. > > > > > > Sigh. All of that to say, I hear ya. For me, no longer expecting this from nada has meant finding friendship and relationship with a good circle of friends who do affirm me and accept me and love me without manipulation. > > > > > > Fiona > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I think saying mean things then passing it off as a " joke " is mental cruelty. Young children can't figure out all the complexities of that exchange. It makes us doubt ourselves when we are bombarded with messages like that. I can relate to the rage-a-holic in my mother but up till now I just thought that was part of her alcoholism!! I believe it is good to be reminded that these remarks are hurtful. I certainly don't want to be repeating BPD behaviors like that. One of my great fears was that I would grow up to be like my mother. I don't mind picking up the good stuff but the things she did to hurt others is not on my bucket list. > > > > " It struck me that what your nada said to you was a textbook example of projection on her part. She was looking at your body and projecting her own feelings *about her own body* onto you. She even " switched bodies " with you: she described your shape as *hers* and assigned her older shape to *you*. " > > > > Annie, > > > > That has never occurred to me. Thank you for mentioning this. I wonder if so many other kinds of comments she's made through the years were also a form of projection, now that I think about it...? > > > > I recall her telling me in one instance, while combing my hair, that she'd heard that people with small foreheads were intellectually inferior. Then she pulled my hair back (not harshly) to expose my forehead and said, " See, like yours. " > > > > She insisted, of course, that she was kidding, and that was that. But who kids like that with their own child? I was about 9 years old. Why would you introduce that kind of thought to a developing person? > > > > She continued that line of " kidding " dialogue last summer when she asked me if I deserved a promotion I'd received and insisted she was kidding when she said it. I went NC for a nice long time to thank her for that one! > > > > I guess my nada just likes to plant digs whenever possible to make sure I don't think too highly of myself. > > > > Anyway, therapy and distancing myself from her have helped a great deal to recover and heal from her " kidding. " > > > > thanks for your comment, Annie. > > > > Fiona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I so feel your pain, and she is lucky that it sounds like you still want to have a relationship with her. But one thing you have to get past that I am VERY SLOWLY realizing and have a long way to go, is that you CANNOT reason with her like you would someone else and come to a resolution. You will not be able to come to a common ground and move on. It will be more like if you want to continue the relationship, it will be YOU making any kind of compromise that you're willing to make to make her happy so that she can get past it, whether it satisfies you or not. It truly is like arguing with a two year old. When I call my NADA on the carpet about something, she just starts pouting and says " I guess I just can't say anything! " Never has an intelligent response. I'm sorry for you, and truly hope you can come to a point where you are at peace. I haven't found mine yet, but I can sure hope for someone else:) > > What she says to you are the things people say to themselves when they want to justify hurting someone. It's not necessarily true, but nada is angry and wants to lash out, so she does. She says you're mean and so on to avoid feeling guilty about it. In other words, it doesn't make it true. > > You are in pain. It hurts to have a mother who treats you this way. It might help to let yourself not think about the future or even try to understand why this has happened, and just acknowledge that this is a very sad time for you and be extra kind to yourself. > > As much as you want nada to recognize that she is ill and needs help, you are the one who is suffering. You are the one who needs comfort, and understanding, and kindness. > > Take care, > Ashana > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 In the nada dictionary, " compromise " is defined as the other person giving in completely and nada getting what she wants. At 07:58 PM 08/18/2012 jtadcock wrote: >I so feel your pain, and she is lucky that it sounds like you >still want to have a relationship with her. But one thing you >have to get past that I am VERY SLOWLY realizing and have a >long way to go, is that you CANNOT reason with her like you >would someone else and come to a resolution. You will not be >able to come to a common ground and move on. It will be more >like if you want to continue the relationship, it will be YOU >making any kind of compromise that you're willing to make to >make her happy so that she can get past it, whether it >satisfies you or not. It truly is like arguing with a two year >old. When I call my NADA on the carpet about something, she >just starts pouting and says " I guess I just can't say >anything! " Never has an intelligent response. I'm sorry for >you, and truly hope you can come to a point where you are at >peace. I haven't found mine yet, but I can sure hope for >someone else:) -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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