Caregivers can be so hurtful

[Guest guest]

Hello Everyone,

So my mom is BPD-Waif-Caregiver: she sacrifices herself all the time for others.

I use to be a caregiver myself, but the healthier I became, the more I grew into

the sensitive artist type.

In the last year I've had two caregiver-type friends (normal people). Both

friendships ended the same way: They act caring and say they want to be there

for me...so I share and eventually start to rely on them as a friend. And I do

my best to be there for them too and make sure I don't overwhelm them with my

sharing.

Then things happen in their personal lives where they are feeling overwhelmed.

But they don't tell me about it, because they are focused on being there for

others. Then after awhile...they just explode because of the pressure they feel

to be there for others.

And because I'm sensitive and a little insecure, they take it out on me. In both

friendships, before the blow up happened, I could tell things weren't going well

for them and I asked them both if they were ok and if I needed to share less.

Both told me, " oh no, it's fine. " But then a week later, they decide to cut me

down.

What's most hurtful about caregivers is how they can use the personal things you

share against you when they're angry!

This is totally what my mom does to me, but worse. She tells my extended family

things I've shared in private (but in a way so she gets sympathy for having such

a " lost " daughter). But I know she just feels rejected by me because I've

pursued my own, successful life.

The last helper friendship ended last week. And honestly...I just feel

betrayed. And it's triggering past pain. It makes me feel unsafe, and I

wrestle once again with thinking " I'm too much for intimate relationships. "

Which my therapist is trying to help me overcome. But friendships like these

DON'T help!

Anyway...I think us adult children of BPDs are just extra sensitive to betrayal.

That's why it takes me much longer to get over such painful relationships and

not feel like it's MY fault, because I'm a bad person. I always own up to any

mistakes I made in relationships with helpers, but it leaves our friendship

permanently broken because I am so hurt by them.

I'm probably picking helper friends who are like my mom with the hopes our

friendship will somehow restore what I lost.

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

It's so interesting to see your post, because I was *just* talking with my

husband last night about friendships and how I've had to challenge myself to

initiate lunch dates, etc. with people, how this is a stretching area for me.

The reason I do it is because in the past, as you pointed out, I end up having

friendships with people who are drawn to me, and at first, they're great. But

they turn out terribly.

For example, when I started my last job, this one woman kept stopping by my desk

to chat and we became friends pretty quickly. She was very friendly. But then

after a few months, I noticed how if a few of us were knitting in the office,

she would bring in *her*knitting. If I said I was watching a particular show,

she would start watching it. I knew she was trouble when she saw me going out

for lunch with someone else and said something like, " I didn't know you and Jane

were friends... " I realized she reminded me very much of nada: the complaining,

the splitting of people in our office (she would tell me who was good/bad), etc.

So, I am trying to initiate friendships more and being careful to listen to my

gut when it's screaming for me to avoid certain people.

it's a process. I know how you feel. My nada is very much a caregiver/martyr,

too. I think you're right that we're drawn to certain people to fix what we

didn't get from nada.

>

> Hello Everyone,

>

> So my mom is BPD-Waif-Caregiver: she sacrifices herself all the time for

others. I use to be a caregiver myself, but the healthier I became, the more I

grew into the sensitive artist type.

>

> In the last year I've had two caregiver-type friends (normal people). Both

friendships ended the same way: They act caring and say they want to be there

for me...so I share and eventually start to rely on them as a friend. And I do

my best to be there for them too and make sure I don't overwhelm them with my

sharing.

>

> Then things happen in their personal lives where they are feeling overwhelmed.

But they don't tell me about it, because they are focused on being there for

others. Then after awhile...they just explode because of the pressure they feel

to be there for others.

>

> And because I'm sensitive and a little insecure, they take it out on me. In

both friendships, before the blow up happened, I could tell things weren't going

well for them and I asked them both if they were ok and if I needed to share

less. Both told me, " oh no, it's fine. " But then a week later, they decide to

cut me down.

>

> What's most hurtful about caregivers is how they can use the personal things

you share against you when they're angry!

>

> This is totally what my mom does to me, but worse. She tells my extended

family things I've shared in private (but in a way so she gets sympathy for

having such a " lost " daughter). But I know she just feels rejected by me

because I've pursued my own, successful life.

>

> The last helper friendship ended last week. And honestly...I just feel

betrayed. And it's triggering past pain. It makes me feel unsafe, and I

wrestle once again with thinking " I'm too much for intimate relationships. "

Which my therapist is trying to help me overcome. But friendships like these

DON'T help!

>

> Anyway...I think us adult children of BPDs are just extra sensitive to

betrayal. That's why it takes me much longer to get over such painful

relationships and not feel like it's MY fault, because I'm a bad person. I

always own up to any mistakes I made in relationships with helpers, but it

leaves our friendship permanently broken because I am so hurt by them.

>

> I'm probably picking helper friends who are like my mom with the hopes our

friendship will somehow restore what I lost.

>

[Guest guest]

Can I offer a different perspective to you about this? I hope so, because I am.

I had this problem when I was younger too. I had many female friends and a few

male friends that were just like nada. In retrospect, this is the universes was

of giving you the opportunity to recognize nada type people and start developing

healthy boundaries. Think of it as practice. You are being given " easier " people

to practice your boundaries on so eventually you are strong enough to stand up

to your nada and put up boundaries with her. The reason why your gut is saying

you are sharing too much with these people is because you have picked a nada

esque person that will tell you " oh, no, its fine " when they really don't mean

it and instead of listening to your own intuition that is trying to tell you

that this person isn't safe and that maybe you should back off, you are asking

them if it is okay when they really aren't capable of saying no. You are

repeating the pattern that is so familiar from your nada expecting that one of

these people will be " stronger, different or better " than your nada was.

I want you to know that I am not judging you. I just know where you are at

because I have been there too. I had to go thru a whole lot of nada type friends

that I had to learn to stand up to. I needed that to get to the point I am at

today. I think of it now as mental strength training.

C

>

> Hello Everyone,

>

> So my mom is BPD-Waif-Caregiver: she sacrifices herself all the time for

others. I use to be a caregiver myself, but the healthier I became, the more I

grew into the sensitive artist type.

>

> In the last year I've had two caregiver-type friends (normal people). Both

friendships ended the same way: They act caring and say they want to be there

for me...so I share and eventually start to rely on them as a friend. And I do

my best to be there for them too and make sure I don't overwhelm them with my

sharing.

>

> Then things happen in their personal lives where they are feeling overwhelmed.

But they don't tell me about it, because they are focused on being there for

others. Then after awhile...they just explode because of the pressure they feel

to be there for others.

>

> And because I'm sensitive and a little insecure, they take it out on me. In

both friendships, before the blow up happened, I could tell things weren't going

well for them and I asked them both if they were ok and if I needed to share

less. Both told me, " oh no, it's fine. " But then a week later, they decide to

cut me down.

>

> What's most hurtful about caregivers is how they can use the personal things

you share against you when they're angry!

>

> This is totally what my mom does to me, but worse. She tells my extended

family things I've shared in private (but in a way so she gets sympathy for

having such a " lost " daughter). But I know she just feels rejected by me

because I've pursued my own, successful life.

>

> The last helper friendship ended last week. And honestly...I just feel

betrayed. And it's triggering past pain. It makes me feel unsafe, and I

wrestle once again with thinking " I'm too much for intimate relationships. "

Which my therapist is trying to help me overcome. But friendships like these

DON'T help!

>

> Anyway...I think us adult children of BPDs are just extra sensitive to

betrayal. That's why it takes me much longer to get over such painful

relationships and not feel like it's MY fault, because I'm a bad person. I

always own up to any mistakes I made in relationships with helpers, but it

leaves our friendship permanently broken because I am so hurt by them.

>

> I'm probably picking helper friends who are like my mom with the hopes our

friendship will somehow restore what I lost.

>

[Guest guest]

Sometimes " helper " friendships are based on the sense of grandiosity helping

gives to the helper. However, the loss of boundaries from overhelping

eventually becomes suffocating, and the help becomes ammunition in an argument

intended mainly to create a more comfortable distance.

It may be hard to distinguish these unhealthy patterns of relating from normal

friendships with give and take because you don't have enough models of them.

One way to address this is to pay attention to when you feel uncomfortable with

sharing--instead of asking the other person if it is too much, ask yourself. If

you feel uncomfortable, stop sharing. It is okay not to feel comfortable

sharing a lot or relying on someone you don't actually know that well, or

haven't known long. It takes a long time to grow an old frienship. If you

don't feel uncomfortable, don't do it.

It isn't that you are too much for intimate relationships, but that it actually

wasn't a solid relationship with a trustworthy person to start with.

I've started deliberately avoiding people who seemed to want to help me to an

uncomfortable degree. If things seemed one-sided to me, they probably

were--it's different when you both have something to offer to one another, and

when what is being offered isn't something that looks like it eventually will

become a strain. I've also avoided accepting help that was excessive or that I

didn't need, while accepting help from people I trust that I really do need.

While KOs have trouble trusting others, we also have trouble recognizing when

people really aren't trustworthy, and very often the people we don't trust,

can't be trusted, but then we decide we have issues with trust and trust them

anyway...

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

A sense of grandiosity does seem to be part of what my nada gets

out of some of her " friendships " . I think there's also an

element of feeling morally superior involved.

Avoiding people who seem to want to help excessively seems wise

to me. I think it is a good idea to avoid relationships that are

too one-sided in either direction. Relationships where you're

giving too much without receiving and relationships where you're

doing an excess of receiving without being able to give anything

back are both likely to turn toxic eventually. In a healthy

relationship, there is give and take of some sort in both

directions. The things being given and taken may be very

different, but both sides get something that doesn't originate

within themselves.

At 09:13 PM 08/26/2012 Ash wrote:

>Sometimes " helper " friendships are based on the sense of

>grandiosity helping gives to the helper. However, the loss of

>boundaries from overhelping eventually becomes suffocating, and

>the help becomes ammunition in an argument intended mainly to

>create a more comfortable distance.

>

>It may be hard to distinguish these unhealthy patterns of

>relating from normal friendships with give and take because you

>don't have enough models of them. One way to address this is

>to pay attention to when you feel uncomfortable with

>sharing--instead of asking the other person if it is too much,

>ask yourself. If you feel uncomfortable, stop sharing. It is

>okay not to feel comfortable sharing a lot or relying on

>someone you don't actually know that well, or haven't known

>long. It takes a long time to grow an old frienship. If you

>don't feel uncomfortable, don't do it.

>

>It isn't that you are too much for intimate relationships, but

>that it actually wasn't a solid relationship with a trustworthy

>person to start with.

>

>I've started deliberately avoiding people who seemed to want to

>help me to an uncomfortable degree. If things seemed one-sided

>to me, they probably were--it's different when you both have

>something to offer to one another, and when what is being

>offered isn't something that looks like it eventually will

>become a strain. I've also avoided accepting help that was

>excessive or that I didn't need, while accepting help from

>people I trust that I really do need.

>

>While KOs have trouble trusting others, we also have trouble

>recognizing when people really aren't trustworthy, and very

>often the people we don't trust, can't be trusted, but then we

>decide we have issues with trust and trust them anyway...

>

>Take care,

>Ashana

>

>

>

>------------------------------------

>

> **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new

> book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

> Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells,

> available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write

> @.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

>

>To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

>WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe .

>

>Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, "

>and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

>Groups Links

>

>

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for your thoughtful responses and feedback. Gosh, this is such a great

group.

Boundaries and following your instinct are tough at times. You know...I do have

a great friendship with a woman my mother's age who has a helper personality,

but she really keeps it in check. So I need to make sure my friendships with

other really caring people match what I have with her. Because it is definitely

more give and take (and she has good boundaries with people).

You're right...I need to listen to myself instead of to others when it comes to

building friendships. If I feel uncomfortable, that's my answer, not what they

have to say. We're just too nice.

And for many people, while it hurts to have a caregiver " attack " when they're

feeling overwhelmed, with my history it's just extra painful. This last friend

is acting fine with me now that we have distance. Which is definitely hurtful.

But life is filled with these people! So I have to learn to avoid getting close

to them.

I actually have really good boundaries with my own mom. Now I view her BPD as

more like her little antics which I don't take personally. She has little power

in my life, but I have to stay aware of her.

So thanks for the help. I hope you got a benefit from the dialogue as well.

Take care,

Peaceful Warrior

> >Sometimes " helper " friendships are based on the sense of

> >grandiosity helping gives to the helper. However, the loss of

> >boundaries from overhelping eventually becomes suffocating, and

> >the help becomes ammunition in an argument intended mainly to

> >create a more comfortable distance.

> >

> >It may be hard to distinguish these unhealthy patterns of

> >relating from normal friendships with give and take because you

> >don't have enough models of them. One way to address this is

> >to pay attention to when you feel uncomfortable with

> >sharing--instead of asking the other person if it is too much,

> >ask yourself. If you feel uncomfortable, stop sharing. It is

> >okay not to feel comfortable sharing a lot or relying on

> >someone you don't actually know that well, or haven't known

> >long. It takes a long time to grow an old frienship. If you

> >don't feel uncomfortable, don't do it.

> >

> >It isn't that you are too much for intimate relationships, but

> >that it actually wasn't a solid relationship with a trustworthy

> >person to start with.

> >

> >I've started deliberately avoiding people who seemed to want to

> >help me to an uncomfortable degree. If things seemed one-sided

> >to me, they probably were--it's different when you both have

> >something to offer to one another, and when what is being

> >offered isn't something that looks like it eventually will

> >become a strain. I've also avoided accepting help that was

> >excessive or that I didn't need, while accepting help from

> >people I trust that I really do need.

> >

> >While KOs have trouble trusting others, we also have trouble

> >recognizing when people really aren't trustworthy, and very

> >often the people we don't trust, can't be trusted, but then we

> >decide we have issues with trust and trust them anyway...

> >

> >Take care,

> >Ashana

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------------

> >

> > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new

> > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

> > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells,

> > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write

> > @... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

> >

> >To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

> >WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe

> >

> >Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, "

> >and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

> >Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> --

> Katrina

>