Guest guest Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi Everyone, Nada is not doing too well and is basically immobile and in a lot of pain. I, as a biological offspring, have a moral obligation to be there for nada. Plus, my " inner child " longs to have the relationship with a " positive " mother that it never had. Nada will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket and sell my condo in CA and come and live with her in NY. But, if I went there to live with her, she would control every aspect of my life - even when I bathe. I am unemployed, lost my hubby six years ago in an accident, and got a grant to go to school. Nada is upset b/c I won't be finished with school until next summer and she wants me to sell the condo and come and live with her by December. She won't allow me to visit and return to CA. I feel really horrible b/c I want to be there for my " mom " to help her with the end-of-life. But, if I did do all of this she would disown me and also disinherit me. I am more useful to her as an object from a distance. And I would go down and visit her. What do you think that I should do? Thanks. I am very grateful to be a part of this group. -Lula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Lula, I'm sorry you're in this position. I can't tell you what you should do, but I can give my opinion on some of this and try to point out the parts that seem to be most important. I don't think that being her biological offspring causes you to have a moral obligation to be there for her. I don't know how she treated you, but if she was a typical nada, there was plenty of emotional abuse involved and possibly some physical abuse. Not only has she probably abused you in the past, from your description it sounds like she'd be successful in continuing to abuse you. Controlling when someone is allowed to do basic personal things like bathe falls into the category of emotional abuse when it is an on-going thing. No one has a moral obligation to " be there " for someone who has and is continuing to abuse them. (If you're feeling the obligation for religious reasons, ask yourself whether your god really expects people to sacrifice themselves for their abusers. I have a hard time understanding why any god would expect that.) Giving birth to you didn't somehow give her the right to do whatever she wanted without consequences. You can choose to be there for her because that choice feels right to you, but it isn't something you should feel you have to do in my opinion. If your inner child hopes your nada has changed, your inner child is almost certainly wrong. She isn't capable of being that mother you never had. The longer you hold onto that hope in even the smallest way, the more you are likely to keep getting hurt. Ask yourself whether you want to be there to help your nada or to help the imaginary mother you wish you had? Like you say, if you went to live with her, she would control you. That's a very bad thing. You're an adult. You should be the one controlling you, not her. She has no right to control your daily life and she has no right to allow or disallow you from returning to your current home. That's not her place in your life. You got a grant to go to school. Going to school to gain credentials and/or learn new skills is important when you're unemployed and need to improve your chances in the job market. If you do what she wants, you're not going to be able to finish school as planned. I'm going to guess that you'd probably have a hard time getting another grant if you just drop out now so you might not be able to finish later either. That is likely to affect you for many years to come, potentially causing you to have to live in poverty. That's not a reasonable choice. If she doesn't want you to be there for her without sowing the seeds of destruction on the rest of your future, then that's her choice. If she says she'd rather you didn't come at all because you won't stay permanently, I think you should accept her decision. One of the things about being an adult is that you get to make your own decisions and you have to accept that other adults also get to make their own decisions. Our nadas make bad decisions quite often. We not only aren't obligated to stop them, we don't have the right to do so in many cases in my opinion. That's one of the differences between us and our nadas. We can try to avoid trying to run other people's lives for them. If you go there, what are you going to be able to do for her that isn't getting done now, or that couldn't be done by someone else? You can't make her pain go away. You could end up acting as her indentured servant, but there are probably other ways she could get help without subjecting yourself to that. Many areas have programs in place to help older and disabled people get to places like medical appointments. Meals-on-wheels is available in many places to get decent meals to those people as well. If she's close to the end of her life, she might be able to get into hospice care. She might be eligable to have care-givers of some sort come to her home to help daily or weekly. You can investigate these possibilities from where you are and let her know what you find out. If you do so and she chooses not to ask for help she is eligable to receive, that's not your fault. At 05:57 PM 08/22/2012 lula_guacamole wrote: >Hi Everyone, > >Nada is not doing too well and is basically immobile and in a >lot of pain. I, as a biological offspring, have a moral >obligation to be there for nada. Plus, my " inner child " longs >to have the relationship with a " positive " mother that it never >had. > >Nada will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane >ticket and sell my condo in CA and come and live with her in NY. > >But, if I went there to live with her, she would control every >aspect of my life - even when I bathe. > >I am unemployed, lost my hubby six years ago in an accident, >and got a grant to go to school. Nada is upset b/c I won't be >finished with school until next summer and she wants me to sell >the condo and come and live with her by December. She won't >allow me to visit and return to CA. > >I feel really horrible b/c I want to be there for my " mom " to >help her with the end-of-life. > >But, if I did do all of this she would disown me and also >disinherit me. > >I am more useful to her as an object from a distance. And I >would go down and visit her. > >What do you think that I should do? > >Thanks. I am very grateful to be a part of this group. > >-Lula -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Lula, Katrina had some excellent advice. I would also suggest that you read your post, the one you wrote to the list, as though it were a stranger's written in the Dear Abby or Dear Prudence column in the daily newspaper. If you read the letter as if someone else wrote it, what would you tell that person to do? Would you say, oh, sure, drop out of school, disrupt your entire life, and move to where your mentally ill mother can control every aspect of your life? Would Dear Abby or Dear Prudence say that? I think that trying to view the situation as if from an outsider's perspective might help you think about it differently. > Hi Everyone, > > Nada is not doing too well and is basically immobile and in a lot of pain. I, as a biological offspring, have a moral obligation to be there for nada. Plus, my " inner child " longs to have the relationship with a " positive " mother that it never had. > > Nada will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket and sell my condo in CA and come and live with her in NY. > > But, if I went there to live with her, she would control every aspect of my life - even when I bathe. > > I am unemployed, lost my hubby six years ago in an accident, and got a grant to go to school. Nada is upset b/c I won't be finished with school until next summer and she wants me to sell the condo and come and live with her by December. She won't allow me to visit and return to CA. > > I feel really horrible b/c I want to be there for my " mom " to help her with the end-of-life. > > But, if I did do all of this she would disown me and also disinherit me. > > I am more useful to her as an object from a distance. And I would go down and visit her. > > What do you think that I should do? > > Thanks. I am very grateful to be a part of this group. > > -Lula > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi Katrina, Thank you so much for the beautiful response to my email.  All of what you said rings so true. Yes, it's sick for a " mother " to want her daughter to give up her independence to live with her. It's sick for a " mother " to only allow her daughter to visit her if she buys a one-way ticket. It's sick for a " mother " to not allow her daughter to finish school.  And yes, she would want me to be her indentured servant. Right now, there are a lot of people helping her and my disabled brother who lives with her.  If I were there, all of this would be my responsibility. And every time I would try to do something independent, I would get a guilt trip and possibly disowned. I have not seen nada in more than 12 years since she tried to turn my husband against me. After my husband died, I have spoken to her a lot b/c I needed a " mother. "  That's how I became enmeshed. It's amazing how " blind " I have become. The truth is that I am so afraid being disinherited.  This does matter to me now, since I am widowed.  I love belonging to this group.  I did participate a lot when my husband was alive.  It's wonderful to be in this community so that we can support one another! -Lula ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 7:04 PM Subject: Re: Hi Everyone,  Lula, I'm sorry you're in this position. I can't tell you what you should do, but I can give my opinion on some of this and try to point out the parts that seem to be most important. I don't think that being her biological offspring causes you to have a moral obligation to be there for her. I don't know how she treated you, but if she was a typical nada, there was plenty of emotional abuse involved and possibly some physical abuse. Not only has she probably abused you in the past, from your description it sounds like she'd be successful in continuing to abuse you. Controlling when someone is allowed to do basic personal things like bathe falls into the category of emotional abuse when it is an on-going thing. No one has a moral obligation to " be there " for someone who has and is continuing to abuse them. (If you're feeling the obligation for religious reasons, ask yourself whether your god really expects people to sacrifice themselves for their abusers. I have a hard time understanding why any god would expect that.) Giving birth to you didn't somehow give her the right to do whatever she wanted without consequences. You can choose to be there for her because that choice feels right to you, but it isn't something you should feel you have to do in my opinion. If your inner child hopes your nada has changed, your inner child is almost certainly wrong. She isn't capable of being that mother you never had. The longer you hold onto that hope in even the smallest way, the more you are likely to keep getting hurt. Ask yourself whether you want to be there to help your nada or to help the imaginary mother you wish you had? Like you say, if you went to live with her, she would control you. That's a very bad thing. You're an adult. You should be the one controlling you, not her. She has no right to control your daily life and she has no right to allow or disallow you from returning to your current home. That's not her place in your life. You got a grant to go to school. Going to school to gain credentials and/or learn new skills is important when you're unemployed and need to improve your chances in the job market. If you do what she wants, you're not going to be able to finish school as planned. I'm going to guess that you'd probably have a hard time getting another grant if you just drop out now so you might not be able to finish later either. That is likely to affect you for many years to come, potentially causing you to have to live in poverty. That's not a reasonable choice. If she doesn't want you to be there for her without sowing the seeds of destruction on the rest of your future, then that's her choice. If she says she'd rather you didn't come at all because you won't stay permanently, I think you should accept her decision. One of the things about being an adult is that you get to make your own decisions and you have to accept that other adults also get to make their own decisions. Our nadas make bad decisions quite often. We not only aren't obligated to stop them, we don't have the right to do so in many cases in my opinion. That's one of the differences between us and our nadas. We can try to avoid trying to run other people's lives for them. If you go there, what are you going to be able to do for her that isn't getting done now, or that couldn't be done by someone else? You can't make her pain go away. You could end up acting as her indentured servant, but there are probably other ways she could get help without subjecting yourself to that. Many areas have programs in place to help older and disabled people get to places like medical appointments. Meals-on-wheels is available in many places to get decent meals to those people as well. If she's close to the end of her life, she might be able to get into hospice care. She might be eligable to have care-givers of some sort come to her home to help daily or weekly. You can investigate these possibilities from where you are and let her know what you find out. If you do so and she chooses not to ask for help she is eligable to receive, that's not your fault. At 05:57 PM 08/22/2012 lula_guacamole wrote: >Hi Everyone, > >Nada is not doing too well and is basically immobile and in a >lot of pain. I, as a biological offspring, have a moral >obligation to be there for nada. Plus, my " inner child " longs >to have the relationship with a " positive " mother that it never >had. > >Nada will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane >ticket and sell my condo in CA and come and live with her in NY. > >But, if I went there to live with her, she would control every >aspect of my life - even when I bathe. > >I am unemployed, lost my hubby six years ago in an accident, >and got a grant to go to school. Nada is upset b/c I won't be >finished with school until next summer and she wants me to sell >the condo and come and live with her by December. She won't >allow me to visit and return to CA. > >I feel really horrible b/c I want to be there for my " mom " to >help her with the end-of-life. > >But, if I did do all of this she would disown me and also >disinherit me. > >I am more useful to her as an object from a distance. And I >would go down and visit her. > >What do you think that I should do? > >Thanks. I am very grateful to be a part of this group. > >-Lula -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi ....You're right. I would tell that person that their nada was crazy. I just feel so emotionally disabled b/c growing up with a nada and fada....I never fully manifested my self in the outer world professionally. I had fun creative jobs and my husband supported me. I am so afraid of being disinherited. -Lula ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:33 PM Subject: Re: Hi Everyone, Lula, Katrina had some excellent advice. I would also suggest that you read your post, the one you wrote to the list, as though it were a stranger's written in the Dear Abby or Dear Prudence column in the daily newspaper. If you read the letter as if someone else wrote it, what would you tell that person to do? Would you say, oh, sure, drop out of school, disrupt your entire life, and move to where your mentally ill mother can control every aspect of your life? Would Dear Abby or Dear Prudence say that? I think that trying to view the situation as if from an outsider's perspective might help you think about it differently. > Hi Everyone, > > Nada is not doing too well and is basically immobile and in a lot of pain. I, as a biological offspring, have a moral obligation to be there for nada. Plus, my " inner child " longs to have the relationship with a " positive " mother that it never had. > > Nada will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket and sell my condo in CA and come and live with her in NY. > > But, if I went there to live with her, she would control every aspect of my life - even when I bathe. > > I am unemployed, lost my hubby six years ago in an accident, and got a grant to go to school. Nada is upset b/c I won't be finished with school until next summer and she wants me to sell the condo and come and live with her by December. She won't allow me to visit and return to CA. > > I feel really horrible b/c I want to be there for my " mom " to help her with the end-of-life. > > But, if I did do all of this she would disown me and also disinherit me. > > I am more useful to her as an object from a distance. And I would go down and visit her. > > What do you think that I should do? > > Thanks. I am very grateful to be a part of this group. > > -Lula > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 It's hard to let go of the hope. My nada is almost 84, very frail (for real now, not acting) and confused. I know she needs help with daily things and as her only bio child, I also feel that tug to do the right thing and help. My Dad died 4 years ago and nada came unglued. As much as she hated him, she also relied on him to do even the most basic things like changing batteries, understanding how the TV works, paperwork, medications, etc. Anyway, I also thought I could handle her manipulation and unexpected rages. But it was taking a toll on me. I had to emotionally let go of all my hopes: that she would mellow with age, respect me as an adult, appreciate my help. None of that will happen. And yes, she could disown me and cut me from her will. But I had to let all that go. My peace of mind and health is more important than having her like me. She never will. So I go over (when she allows it) and do whatever has to be done. I'm polite and positive but I can't let my guard down. You can help her from a distance with phone calls to stay in touch and show you care. You can make a visit if she allows it. If she doesn't, just remind her that she chose not to see you. I have to do that with my nada. I remind her that she's the one that told me not to call or come over. Your nada's life is winding down and in a year or so, you'll be back on your own again. I think it would be best to focus on that and continue with your education. That will impact the rest of your life in a positive way. > > Hi Everyone, > > Nada is not doing too well and is basically immobile and in a lot of pain. I, as a biological offspring, have a moral obligation to be there for nada. Plus, my " inner child " longs to have the relationship with a " positive " mother that it never had. > > Nada will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket and sell my condo in CA and come and live with her in NY. > > But, if I went there to live with her, she would control every aspect of my life - even when I bathe. > > I am unemployed, lost my hubby six years ago in an accident, and got a grant to go to school. Nada is upset b/c I won't be finished with school until next summer and she wants me to sell the condo and come and live with her by December. She won't allow me to visit and return to CA. > > I feel really horrible b/c I want to be there for my " mom " to help her with the end-of-life. > > But, if I did do all of this she would disown me and also disinherit me. > > I am more useful to her as an object from a distance. And I would go down and visit her. > > What do you think that I should do? > > Thanks. I am very grateful to be a part of this group. > > -Lula > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Hi Irene, Thanks! Â So true. I need to focus on school. Â It's so sad b/c this is a repetitive cycle throughout my adult life. Â I am so tired of it. Â And she is such a low-functioning borderline that I can't even tell her that she chose not to see me without her going off the deep end. Â I think that I'm going to have to cut contact with her. Â What kind of a " mother " would not see her daughter in 14 years b/c she will only allow her to visit with a one-way plane ticket? Â -L ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Hi Everyone, Â It's hard to let go of the hope. My nada is almost 84, very frail (for real now, not acting) and confused. I know she needs help with daily things and as her only bio child, I also feel that tug to do the right thing and help. My Dad died 4 years ago and nada came unglued. As much as she hated him, she also relied on him to do even the most basic things like changing batteries, understanding how the TV works, paperwork, medications, etc. Anyway, I also thought I could handle her manipulation and unexpected rages. But it was taking a toll on me. I had to emotionally let go of all my hopes: that she would mellow with age, respect me as an adult, appreciate my help. None of that will happen. And yes, she could disown me and cut me from her will. But I had to let all that go. My peace of mind and health is more important than having her like me. She never will. So I go over (when she allows it) and do whatever has to be done. I'm polite and positive but I can't let my guard down. You can help her from a distance with phone calls to stay in touch and show you care. You can make a visit if she allows it. If she doesn't, just remind her that she chose not to see you. I have to do that with my nada. I remind her that she's the one that told me not to call or come over. Your nada's life is winding down and in a year or so, you'll be back on your own again. I think it would be best to focus on that and continue with your education. That will impact the rest of your life in a positive way. > > Hi Everyone, > > Nada is not doing too well and is basically immobile and in a lot of pain. I, as a biological offspring, have a moral obligation to be there for nada. Plus, my " inner child " longs to have the relationship with a " positive " mother that it never had. > > Nada will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket and sell my condo in CA and come and live with her in NY. > > But, if I went there to live with her, she would control every aspect of my life - even when I bathe. > > I am unemployed, lost my hubby six years ago in an accident, and got a grant to go to school. Nada is upset b/c I won't be finished with school until next summer and she wants me to sell the condo and come and live with her by December. She won't allow me to visit and return to CA. > > I feel really horrible b/c I want to be there for my " mom " to help her with the end-of-life. > > But, if I did do all of this she would disown me and also disinherit me. > > I am more useful to her as an object from a distance. And I would go down and visit her. > > What do you think that I should do? > > Thanks. I am very grateful to be a part of this group. > > -Lula > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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