Need Help setting boundaries and or going NC

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

I am just at my wit's end with BPD mother. She is an alcoholic in addition

to her BPD and is now alone for the first time in her life (she is 67 years

old). Her boyfriend had her evicted a few months ago for her abusiveness

and out of control drinking behaviors. She lives 1,000 miles away from me

and when he put her out of his house she wanted to move back here and I said

NO you cannot move in with me nor move back here but I did give her money

to get settled in an apt. there. She has almost no one left at this

point in her life who will deal with her and since her boyfriend ended their

relationship all her rage and needs are being directed at me. She is now

constantly calling and either raging at me or talking as though nothing is

wrong afterward. I can get 6 or 7 voicemails a night that are all raging

and abusive because I won't let her move back here with me or because I

won't do whatever it is she wants in the moment. Then 2 days later she

calls and leaves messages as though nothing is wrong or saying how she feels

so alone and it is so hard for her etc. trying to guilt me. I just cannot

get a minute's peace.

I did read Lawson's book and she is definitely the Witch/Queen. She has an

outrageous sense of entitlement. She believes I owe her my life and still

refers to me as her " kid " or the " kid " and I am 45 years old!

I have been seeing a therapist who has been helping me set boundaries but

she crosses everyone I set. I am an only child and don't want to go NC but

she is driving me crazy and it is affecting my life terribly. I have not

answered her calls the last 5 days and am not sure how to proceed but I just

can't go on like this. I feel like I am a hostage to these calls and to her

needs which never end. She is a low functioning borderline and for most of

her life has relied on manipulating someone to take care of her. She has

never been able to hold a job for long. She can't stand being told what to

do. So now for the first time in her life she is on her own with no one to

pick up the pieces and take her in and take care of her. At this point she

has alienated everyone with her drinking and the abusive behavior.

My father passed away 4 years ago and left her a pension even thought they

were divorced for many years she was still entitled to that so she does get

income even though it is not a lot it would be enough for her to live if she

wasn't drinking and smoking constantly. I have serious doubts that she

will be able to keep up this apartment, pay bills and be a responsible adult

since she never has been.

I can't afford to pay her rent every month so she may get evicted from

there. It is just a mess and I am not sure what to do or whether to cut

contact as I can see the disaster ahead. I have encouraged her to get help

and or go to AA etc. but she won't do it and refuses to quit drinking.

I would appreciate and advice you wonderful people have here on setting

boundaries and or going No Contact.

Thank you,

[Guest guest]

People with bpd arent capable of respecting boundaries...they are going to

violate them. That is a gven. Boundaries arent for changing them, though, theyre

for protecting us. We have to be willing to take care of our boundaries with

consequences.

I applaud you for saying no when she asked to move in. It was generous of you to

give her a little money for rent. But you do not have to give her another dime.

You need to take care of you. Paying her rent for her would only further enable

her to continue her dysfunctional patterns.

Which comes to the harassing messages. You have options here. You dont have to

listen to or read anything from her--delete without listening or turn off your

voicemail when you see her number on the caller id. You can have your phone

company block her number. You can change your number and leave it unlisted. You

can draft a cease and desist letter (or have an attorney do it) and contact law

enforcement when she violates it. It is okay to go NC if that is what you need.

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

>

>

> I am just at my wit's end with BPD mother. She is an alcoholic in addition

> to her BPD and is now alone for the first time in her life (she is 67 years

> old). Her boyfriend had her evicted a few months ago for her abusiveness

> and out of control drinking behaviors. She lives 1,000 miles away from me

> and when he put her out of his house she wanted to move back here and I said

> NO you cannot move in with me nor move back here but I did give her money

> to get settled in an apt. there. She has almost no one left at this

> point in her life who will deal with her and since her boyfriend ended their

> relationship all her rage and needs are being directed at me. She is now

> constantly calling and either raging at me or talking as though nothing is

> wrong afterward. I can get 6 or 7 voicemails a night that are all raging

> and abusive because I won't let her move back here with me or because I

> won't do whatever it is she wants in the moment. Then 2 days later she

> calls and leaves messages as though nothing is wrong or saying how she feels

> so alone and it is so hard for her etc. trying to guilt me. I just cannot

> get a minute's peace.

>

>

>

> I did read Lawson's book and she is definitely the Witch/Queen. She has an

> outrageous sense of entitlement. She believes I owe her my life and still

> refers to me as her " kid " or the " kid " and I am 45 years old!

>

>

>

> I have been seeing a therapist who has been helping me set boundaries but

> she crosses everyone I set. I am an only child and don't want to go NC but

> she is driving me crazy and it is affecting my life terribly. I have not

> answered her calls the last 5 days and am not sure how to proceed but I just

> can't go on like this. I feel like I am a hostage to these calls and to her

> needs which never end. She is a low functioning borderline and for most of

> her life has relied on manipulating someone to take care of her. She has

> never been able to hold a job for long. She can't stand being told what to

> do. So now for the first time in her life she is on her own with no one to

> pick up the pieces and take her in and take care of her. At this point she

> has alienated everyone with her drinking and the abusive behavior.

>

>

>

> My father passed away 4 years ago and left her a pension even thought they

> were divorced for many years she was still entitled to that so she does get

> income even though it is not a lot it would be enough for her to live if she

> wasn't drinking and smoking constantly. I have serious doubts that she

> will be able to keep up this apartment, pay bills and be a responsible adult

> since she never has been.

>

> I can't afford to pay her rent every month so she may get evicted from

> there. It is just a mess and I am not sure what to do or whether to cut

> contact as I can see the disaster ahead. I have encouraged her to get help

> and or go to AA etc. but she won't do it and refuses to quit drinking.

>

>

>

> I would appreciate and advice you wonderful people have here on setting

> boundaries and or going No Contact.

>

>

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

People with bpd arent capable of respecting boundaries...they are going to

violate them. That is a gven. Boundaries arent for changing them, though, theyre

for protecting us. We have to be willing to take care of our boundaries with

consequences.

I applaud you for saying no when she asked to move in. It was generous of you to

give her a little money for rent. But you do not have to give her another dime.

You need to take care of you. Paying her rent for her would only further enable

her to continue her dysfunctional patterns.

Which comes to the harassing messages. You have options here. You dont have to

listen to or read anything from her--delete without listening or turn off your

voicemail when you see her number on the caller id. You can have your phone

company block her number. You can change your number and leave it unlisted. You

can draft a cease and desist letter (or have an attorney do it) and contact law

enforcement when she violates it. It is okay to go NC if that is what you need.

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

>

>

> I am just at my wit's end with BPD mother. She is an alcoholic in addition

> to her BPD and is now alone for the first time in her life (she is 67 years

> old). Her boyfriend had her evicted a few months ago for her abusiveness

> and out of control drinking behaviors. She lives 1,000 miles away from me

> and when he put her out of his house she wanted to move back here and I said

> NO you cannot move in with me nor move back here but I did give her money

> to get settled in an apt. there. She has almost no one left at this

> point in her life who will deal with her and since her boyfriend ended their

> relationship all her rage and needs are being directed at me. She is now

> constantly calling and either raging at me or talking as though nothing is

> wrong afterward. I can get 6 or 7 voicemails a night that are all raging

> and abusive because I won't let her move back here with me or because I

> won't do whatever it is she wants in the moment. Then 2 days later she

> calls and leaves messages as though nothing is wrong or saying how she feels

> so alone and it is so hard for her etc. trying to guilt me. I just cannot

> get a minute's peace.

>

>

>

> I did read Lawson's book and she is definitely the Witch/Queen. She has an

> outrageous sense of entitlement. She believes I owe her my life and still

> refers to me as her " kid " or the " kid " and I am 45 years old!

>

>

>

> I have been seeing a therapist who has been helping me set boundaries but

> she crosses everyone I set. I am an only child and don't want to go NC but

> she is driving me crazy and it is affecting my life terribly. I have not

> answered her calls the last 5 days and am not sure how to proceed but I just

> can't go on like this. I feel like I am a hostage to these calls and to her

> needs which never end. She is a low functioning borderline and for most of

> her life has relied on manipulating someone to take care of her. She has

> never been able to hold a job for long. She can't stand being told what to

> do. So now for the first time in her life she is on her own with no one to

> pick up the pieces and take her in and take care of her. At this point she

> has alienated everyone with her drinking and the abusive behavior.

>

>

>

> My father passed away 4 years ago and left her a pension even thought they

> were divorced for many years she was still entitled to that so she does get

> income even though it is not a lot it would be enough for her to live if she

> wasn't drinking and smoking constantly. I have serious doubts that she

> will be able to keep up this apartment, pay bills and be a responsible adult

> since she never has been.

>

> I can't afford to pay her rent every month so she may get evicted from

> there. It is just a mess and I am not sure what to do or whether to cut

> contact as I can see the disaster ahead. I have encouraged her to get help

> and or go to AA etc. but she won't do it and refuses to quit drinking.

>

>

>

> I would appreciate and advice you wonderful people have here on setting

> boundaries and or going No Contact.

>

>

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tracey,

You got a double whammy to deal with, didn't you; a mom with borderline pd AND

alcoholism. And you are her only child. I'm so sorry, you have to have a core

of steel

to survive that kind of situation without collapsing, yourself.

Alcoholic behaviors and bpd behaviors are really similar. Have you joined AA,

which is for the support of families of alcoholics? I think you will find

people there who are experiencing exactly the same situation: an out-of-control

relative who is demanding to be taken care of like an infant, who feels entitled

to perpetual support by others, entitled to keep drinking, entitled to not work,

not support their own self, yet proclaim " There's nothing wrong with me, YOU are

the one who needs therapy! "

Parents with bpd and alcoholic parents are really, really EXPERT at inflicting

misplaced and inappropriate fear, obligation and guilt (aka FOG) on their loved

ones by playing the " hurt puppy " or " abandoned child " card; their goal is to

turn their children or their spouse or other loved ones into their caregiver and

enabler: " I'm so SCARED, I'm so ALONE, I'm HURTING so bad. You HAVE TO feel

sorry for me and take care of me, or you are a BAD PERSON and a BAD DAUGHTER. "

But the hard truth is that very often with alcoholics in particular, they have

to hit bottom before they are able to realize that they have to change

themselves. Sometimes its only when they run out of enablers, that they finally

gain that personal insight.

So, my suggestion for you is to join a chapter of Al-Anon: the live, in-person

support group for those who have alcoholic loved ones. Here is a link to a

page that is relevant to the adult children of alcoholic parents and a link to

Al-Anon:

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info2/a/blfam.htm

And I suggest that you keep reminding yourself that you did not cause your

mother's mental illness or her substance abuse, you can't control her, you can't

change her and you can't cure her. She is the only one who CAN change herself,

but she has to want to.

The guilt she is trying to inflict on you is misplaced and inappropriate. That

is her own guilt that she is trying to make you carry, but its not your job to

carry her guilt for her.

Its not your job or your responsibility to be your mother's mommy, her spouse,

or her therapist, or her social worker. In fact, if you do give her money or a

place to live, she will see no reason to change herself and no reason to work

hard at becoming sober and no reason to work hard in therapy to become more

emotionally healthy and self-supporting.

With substance abusers, helping turns into enabling. With those with bpd, being

tolerant of their atrocious behaviors just enables them to continue being

abusive; why change when there are no negative consequences?

If your bpd/alcoholic mom begins making suicide threats or attempts (which may

happen given the circumstances) do NOT try to help her yourself, call 911

instead. You don't have the training or experience to help your mother, the

paramedics do. If she becomes suicidal she will be taken in for a psychiatric

hold and evaluation, and at that point you can (if you wish to and if your

mother consents) consult with her doctor(s) and social worker to oversee her

next steps. If your mother is declared to no longer be competent to care for

herself and is a danger to herself and to others, then she will need assisted

living arrangements. If she is indigent, then I believe there are state-run

nursing homes that she will have access to.

I strongly suggest you consult with a lawyer to find out what your legal

vulnerability is in your state. Laws vary from state to state regarding legal

responsibility that adult children may have to provide care for an indigent,

elderly parent.

Me personally, I don't blame you if you need to go total No Contact. I had to

go No Contact with my bpd/npd mother, as having contact with her was starting to

make me physically ill in a scary way. It had gotten to the point where, after

hearing her voice on the phone, I'd get an explosive headache, loud ringing in

the ears, vertigo, nausea, vomiting, and crashing into sleep for 12 hours, which

are the symptoms of Meniere's Disease. I'm sure it was due to a huge spike in

blood pressure caused by my lifetime of repressed anger toward her that I was

conditioned to never express. So, my body decided for me that I had to go No

Contact.

I'm glad you have a good therapist; I think the misplaced, inappropriate guilt

is the biggest problem for us KOs. Just keep reminding yourself that it does

NOT make you a bad person to protect yourself from someone who is abusive to

you.

NO. GUILT.

None.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

>

>

> I am just at my wit's end with BPD mother. She is an alcoholic in addition

> to her BPD and is now alone for the first time in her life (she is 67 years

> old). Her boyfriend had her evicted a few months ago for her abusiveness

> and out of control drinking behaviors. She lives 1,000 miles away from me

> and when he put her out of his house she wanted to move back here and I said

> NO you cannot move in with me nor move back here but I did give her money

> to get settled in an apt. there. She has almost no one left at this

> point in her life who will deal with her and since her boyfriend ended their

> relationship all her rage and needs are being directed at me. She is now

> constantly calling and either raging at me or talking as though nothing is

> wrong afterward. I can get 6 or 7 voicemails a night that are all raging

> and abusive because I won't let her move back here with me or because I

> won't do whatever it is she wants in the moment. Then 2 days later she

> calls and leaves messages as though nothing is wrong or saying how she feels

> so alone and it is so hard for her etc. trying to guilt me. I just cannot

> get a minute's peace.

>

>

>

> I did read Lawson's book and she is definitely the Witch/Queen. She has an

> outrageous sense of entitlement. She believes I owe her my life and still

> refers to me as her " kid " or the " kid " and I am 45 years old!

>

>

>

> I have been seeing a therapist who has been helping me set boundaries but

> she crosses everyone I set. I am an only child and don't want to go NC but

> she is driving me crazy and it is affecting my life terribly. I have not

> answered her calls the last 5 days and am not sure how to proceed but I just

> can't go on like this. I feel like I am a hostage to these calls and to her

> needs which never end. She is a low functioning borderline and for most of

> her life has relied on manipulating someone to take care of her. She has

> never been able to hold a job for long. She can't stand being told what to

> do. So now for the first time in her life she is on her own with no one to

> pick up the pieces and take her in and take care of her. At this point she

> has alienated everyone with her drinking and the abusive behavior.

>

>

>

> My father passed away 4 years ago and left her a pension even thought they

> were divorced for many years she was still entitled to that so she does get

> income even though it is not a lot it would be enough for her to live if she

> wasn't drinking and smoking constantly. I have serious doubts that she

> will be able to keep up this apartment, pay bills and be a responsible adult

> since she never has been.

>

> I can't afford to pay her rent every month so she may get evicted from

> there. It is just a mess and I am not sure what to do or whether to cut

> contact as I can see the disaster ahead. I have encouraged her to get help

> and or go to AA etc. but she won't do it and refuses to quit drinking.

>

>

>

> I would appreciate and advice you wonderful people have here on setting

> boundaries and or going No Contact.

>

>

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My mistake: " Al-Anon " is the support group for the families of alcoholics, not

" AA " . " AA " is for the trying-to-get-sober alcoholic.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Hi Annie, Well said. Thank you for this. Yes I did get a double whammy and

yes I need a core of steel which I don't have a lot of the times to deal with

her. Funny because she DOES have a core of steel. She is amazingly

manipulative and an expert at FOG. In fact, those have been her control tactics

and she has mastered them at 67 years old becuase she has used them all her life

to survive and live off other people. The real problem now is she is alone for

the first time and there is noone left to " use " and rage at except me at this

point unless she finds another " victim " . She can be very sweet and charming

when she wants too so i wouldn't be surprised if she does.

I have joined Adult Children of Alcholics and it is a wonderful group and

everyone there can relate to my story except my mother is more the extreme given

her personality disorder. She also has elements of anti-social PD becuase she

does not respect the law or boundaries of any kind. She has domestic abuse on

her record which shows she can be physically abusive when drunk and raging.

We are both in different states so i am not close to her geographically (Thank

God) and I am not sure what the laws are in Florida where she lives but I will

have to research that.

The toughest part is living with the guilt and maintaining the boundaries. I

am working hard at doing it with my therapist but still it is difficult. As the

only child I have noone to share the burden with so all decisions are made by me

and me alone.

I am so grateful for this list and all the wise advise I get here. It helps

immensely and yet still I struggle.

>

> Hi Tracey,

>

> You got a double whammy to deal with, didn't you; a mom with borderline pd AND

alcoholism. And you are her only child. I'm so sorry, you have to have a core

of steel

> to survive that kind of situation without collapsing, yourself.

>

> Alcoholic behaviors and bpd behaviors are really similar. Have you joined AA,

which is for the support of families of alcoholics? I think you will find

people there who are experiencing exactly the same situation: an out-of-control

relative who is demanding to be taken care of like an infant, who feels entitled

to perpetual support by others, entitled to keep drinking, entitled to not work,

not support their own self, yet proclaim " There's nothing wrong with me, YOU are

the one who needs therapy! "

>

> Parents with bpd and alcoholic parents are really, really EXPERT at inflicting

misplaced and inappropriate fear, obligation and guilt (aka FOG) on their loved

ones by playing the " hurt puppy " or " abandoned child " card; their goal is to

turn their children or their spouse or other loved ones into their caregiver and

enabler: " I'm so SCARED, I'm so ALONE, I'm HURTING so bad. You HAVE TO feel

sorry for me and take care of me, or you are a BAD PERSON and a BAD DAUGHTER. "

>

> But the hard truth is that very often with alcoholics in particular, they have

to hit bottom before they are able to realize that they have to change

themselves. Sometimes its only when they run out of enablers, that they finally

gain that personal insight.

>

> So, my suggestion for you is to join a chapter of Al-Anon: the live, in-person

support group for those who have alcoholic loved ones. Here is a link to a

page that is relevant to the adult children of alcoholic parents and a link to

Al-Anon:

>

> http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info2/a/blfam.htm

>

> And I suggest that you keep reminding yourself that you did not cause your

mother's mental illness or her substance abuse, you can't control her, you can't

change her and you can't cure her. She is the only one who CAN change herself,

but she has to want to.

>

> The guilt she is trying to inflict on you is misplaced and inappropriate.

That is her own guilt that she is trying to make you carry, but its not your job

to carry her guilt for her.

>

> Its not your job or your responsibility to be your mother's mommy, her spouse,

or her therapist, or her social worker. In fact, if you do give her money or a

place to live, she will see no reason to change herself and no reason to work

hard at becoming sober and no reason to work hard in therapy to become more

emotionally healthy and self-supporting.

>

> With substance abusers, helping turns into enabling. With those with bpd,

being tolerant of their atrocious behaviors just enables them to continue being

abusive; why change when there are no negative consequences?

>

> If your bpd/alcoholic mom begins making suicide threats or attempts (which may

happen given the circumstances) do NOT try to help her yourself, call 911

instead. You don't have the training or experience to help your mother, the

paramedics do. If she becomes suicidal she will be taken in for a psychiatric

hold and evaluation, and at that point you can (if you wish to and if your

mother consents) consult with her doctor(s) and social worker to oversee her

next steps. If your mother is declared to no longer be competent to care for

herself and is a danger to herself and to others, then she will need assisted

living arrangements. If she is indigent, then I believe there are state-run

nursing homes that she will have access to.

>

> I strongly suggest you consult with a lawyer to find out what your legal

vulnerability is in your state. Laws vary from state to state regarding legal

responsibility that adult children may have to provide care for an indigent,

elderly parent.

>

> Me personally, I don't blame you if you need to go total No Contact. I had to

go No Contact with my bpd/npd mother, as having contact with her was starting to

make me physically ill in a scary way. It had gotten to the point where, after

hearing her voice on the phone, I'd get an explosive headache, loud ringing in

the ears, vertigo, nausea, vomiting, and crashing into sleep for 12 hours, which

are the symptoms of Meniere's Disease. I'm sure it was due to a huge spike in

blood pressure caused by my lifetime of repressed anger toward her that I was

conditioned to never express. So, my body decided for me that I had to go No

Contact.

>

> I'm glad you have a good therapist; I think the misplaced, inappropriate guilt

is the biggest problem for us KOs. Just keep reminding yourself that it does

NOT make you a bad person to protect yourself from someone who is abusive to

you.

>

> NO. GUILT.

>

> None.

>

> I hope that helps.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Tracey,

There are two parts to setting boundaries. The first part is

deciding where to draw your lines in the sand. The second part

is deciding what you're going to do when those lines are

crossed. It sounds like you've done the first part but not the

second. My recommendation is that you figure out an appropriate

response to protect yourself when each boundary is broken. The

purpose of boundaries is to protect you. It is possible that

they might eventually result in your nada changing her behavior

to some extent, but you can't count on that and should assume it

isn't going to happen. It is also likely that she'll get worse

for a while after you start enforcing boundaries.

As an example, one of my boundaries is that my nada isn't

allowed to bad-mouth me, my sister, either of our fathers or

anyone else I care about. When she starts doing so, I break in

and tell her that we're not going to talk about that. If she

persists I hang up the phone or leave. I can't stop her from

saying those things, but I don't have to listen to her say them.

Another of my boundaries is that I won't go rushing to her

rescue every time she feels like she has an emergency. She is

capable of turning even the most minor need into a big drama.

The more she calls me to deal with her problems, the slower I am

to respond to the ones that aren't really emergencies or that

she could deal with herself. Each time I tell her that I have a

limited amount of time to help her so she should make sure she

really needs my help.

It sounds like you need some boundaries concerning phone calls.

The goal in setting a boundary about phone calls is to allow you

to be left in peace and for you not to dread the sound of the

phone ringing. The consequences of her breaking the boundary

should be geared towards achieving that. Normally I don't think

it works well to specifically tell a nada what your rules are,

but when it comes to phone calls, it is sometimes necessary. In

your position, I think I'd tell her that you're willing to talk

to her X times a week on the phone and that you're not going to

listen to more messages than that. If she wants to use up all

her calls leaving messages in a single night, then don't answer

any more calls from her and delete the messages. (If you're

worried that she might have a real emergency, you could choose

to listen to the messages just long enough to tell what she's

calling about and make sure it isn't an emergency.) If she's in

the habit of calling at inapproiate times, you might have to

tell her what hours are okay for calls as well. My nada used to

call me at all hours of the day and night. I no longer answer

calls from her that are too late at night or unreasonably early

in the morning. If she has a real emergency in the middle of the

night, she can tell my voicemail all about it and I can listen

to it and call her back.

You are not responsible for her problems. You have no obligation

to try to fix all her problems for her or to listen to her when

she's being abusive. If she needs help, she could choose to get

it. At 67 she's probably old enough to get services for senior

citizens. Alcoholics Anonymous could help her with her alcohol

problems. If she chooses not to make use of the help that is

available, that's her problem, not yours.

At 09:27 AM 08/28/2012 Tracey wrote:

>Hi Everyone,

>

>

>

>I am just at my wit's end with BPD mother. She is an alcoholic

>in addition

>to her BPD and is now alone for the first time in her life

>(she is 67 years

>old). Her boyfriend had her evicted a few months ago for her

>abusiveness

>and out of control drinking behaviors. She lives 1,000 miles

>away from me

>and when he put her out of his house she wanted to move back

>here and I said

>NO you cannot move in with me nor move back here but I did

>give her money

>to get settled in an apt. there. She has almost no one left

>at this

>point in her life who will deal with her and since her

>boyfriend ended their

>relationship all her rage and needs are being directed at

>me. She is now

>constantly calling and either raging at me or talking as though

>nothing is

>wrong afterward. I can get 6 or 7 voicemails a night that are

>all raging

>and abusive because I won't let her move back here with me or

>because I

>won't do whatever it is she wants in the moment. Then 2 days

>later she

>calls and leaves messages as though nothing is wrong or saying

>how she feels

>so alone and it is so hard for her etc. trying to guilt

>me. I just cannot

>get a minute's peace.

>

>

>

>I did read Lawson's book and she is definitely the

>Witch/Queen. She has an

>outrageous sense of entitlement. She believes I owe her my

>life and still

>refers to me as her " kid " or the " kid " and I am 45 years

>old!

>

>

>

>I have been seeing a therapist who has been helping me set

>boundaries but

>she crosses everyone I set. I am an only child and don't want

>to go NC but

>she is driving me crazy and it is affecting my life

>terribly. I have not

>answered her calls the last 5 days and am not sure how to

>proceed but I just

>can't go on like this. I feel like I am a hostage to these

>calls and to her

>needs which never end. She is a low functioning borderline and

>for most of

>her life has relied on manipulating someone to take care of

>her. She has

>never been able to hold a job for long. She can't stand being

>told what to

>do. So now for the first time in her life she is on her own

>with no one to

>pick up the pieces and take her in and take care of her. At

>this point she

>has alienated everyone with her drinking and the abusive

>behavior.

>

>

>

>My father passed away 4 years ago and left her a pension even

>thought they

>were divorced for many years she was still entitled to that so

>she does get

>income even though it is not a lot it would be enough for her

>to live if she

>wasn't drinking and smoking constantly. I have serious doubts

>that she

>will be able to keep up this apartment, pay bills and be a

>responsible adult

>since she never has been.

>

> I can't afford to pay her rent every month so she may get

> evicted from

>there. It is just a mess and I am not sure what to do

>or whether to cut

>contact as I can see the disaster ahead. I have encouraged

>her to get help

>and or go to AA etc. but she won't do it and refuses to quit

>drinking.

>

>

>

>I would appreciate and advice you wonderful people have here on

>setting

>boundaries and or going No Contact.

>

>

>

>Thank you,

>

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I have thought of blocking her number and it may come to that. You offer good

suggestions here. I have to keep reminding myself that there are choices and I

don't have to just live with whatever she is dishing out. I just have to get

past my own fear and guilt. I wish I could get past feeling responsible for

what happens to her especially given how little she has " mothered " me in my

life. I just can't understand why I feel so guilty given the crappy mother she

has been to me. Even my friends have said they would have walked away from her

years ago if it was their mother as they know how she is and yet I can't seem to

do it.

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> >

> >

> > I am just at my wit's end with BPD mother. She is an alcoholic in addition

> > to her BPD and is now alone for the first time in her life (she is 67 years

> > old). Her boyfriend had her evicted a few months ago for her abusiveness

> > and out of control drinking behaviors. She lives 1,000 miles away from me

> > and when he put her out of his house she wanted to move back here and I said

> > NO you cannot move in with me nor move back here but I did give her money

> > to get settled in an apt. there. She has almost no one left at this

> > point in her life who will deal with her and since her boyfriend ended their

> > relationship all her rage and needs are being directed at me. She is now

> > constantly calling and either raging at me or talking as though nothing is

> > wrong afterward. I can get 6 or 7 voicemails a night that are all raging

> > and abusive because I won't let her move back here with me or because I

> > won't do whatever it is she wants in the moment. Then 2 days later she

> > calls and leaves messages as though nothing is wrong or saying how she feels

> > so alone and it is so hard for her etc. trying to guilt me. I just cannot

> > get a minute's peace.

> >

> >

> >

> > I did read Lawson's book and she is definitely the Witch/Queen. She has an

> > outrageous sense of entitlement. She believes I owe her my life and still

> > refers to me as her " kid " or the " kid " and I am 45 years old!

> >

> >

> >

> > I have been seeing a therapist who has been helping me set boundaries but

> > she crosses everyone I set. I am an only child and don't want to go NC but

> > she is driving me crazy and it is affecting my life terribly. I have not

> > answered her calls the last 5 days and am not sure how to proceed but I just

> > can't go on like this. I feel like I am a hostage to these calls and to her

> > needs which never end. She is a low functioning borderline and for most of

> > her life has relied on manipulating someone to take care of her. She has

> > never been able to hold a job for long. She can't stand being told what to

> > do. So now for the first time in her life she is on her own with no one to

> > pick up the pieces and take her in and take care of her. At this point she

> > has alienated everyone with her drinking and the abusive behavior.

> >

> >

> >

> > My father passed away 4 years ago and left her a pension even thought they

> > were divorced for many years she was still entitled to that so she does get

> > income even though it is not a lot it would be enough for her to live if she

> > wasn't drinking and smoking constantly. I have serious doubts that she

> > will be able to keep up this apartment, pay bills and be a responsible adult

> > since she never has been.

> >

> > I can't afford to pay her rent every month so she may get evicted from

> > there. It is just a mess and I am not sure what to do or whether to cut

> > contact as I can see the disaster ahead. I have encouraged her to get help

> > and or go to AA etc. but she won't do it and refuses to quit drinking.

> >

> >

> >

> > I would appreciate and advice you wonderful people have here on setting

> > boundaries and or going No Contact.

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina,

Yes i am having problems with the 2nd part which is figuring out the

consequences when she breaks the boundary. what is a reasonable consequence and

what happens when she breaks that. It is just one crisis after another and it

is constant anymore since I am the only one left she can call. At this point it

is overwhelming for me.

She refuses to quit drinking so AA is not an option. I have thought about

telling her that I can't have contact unless she is clean and sober but last

time I did that we didn't speak for 8 years! and the only reason we spoke again

was because my dad died. She won't quit drinking, she has been doing it all

her life and says she won't stop. So that is not an option. It is very hard to

find a way to deal with somoene who is constantly drunk and also has BPD. Means

I am continually dealing with someone who is irational and unreasonable.

It would be so nice to just be a daughter and not have to be a psychiatrist to

deal with my own mother! It is exhausting.

I am going to work on the consequences part of the boundary but honestly i don't

think there will be any peace for me now that she is alone it will just be one

crisis after another. Next she will be getting evicted becuase she didn't pay

her rent and spent all her money on booze. Then I will be getting a million

frantic calls about her being on the street. The whole thing is just crazy and

draining.

>

> Hello Tracey,

>

> There are two parts to setting boundaries. The first part is

> deciding where to draw your lines in the sand. The second part

> is deciding what you're going to do when those lines are

> crossed. It sounds like you've done the first part but not the

> second. My recommendation is that you figure out an appropriate

> response to protect yourself when each boundary is broken. The

> purpose of boundaries is to protect you. It is possible that

> they might eventually result in your nada changing her behavior

> to some extent, but you can't count on that and should assume it

> isn't going to happen. It is also likely that she'll get worse

> for a while after you start enforcing boundaries.

>

> As an example, one of my boundaries is that my nada isn't

> allowed to bad-mouth me, my sister, either of our fathers or

> anyone else I care about. When she starts doing so, I break in

> and tell her that we're not going to talk about that. If she

> persists I hang up the phone or leave. I can't stop her from

> saying those things, but I don't have to listen to her say them.

> Another of my boundaries is that I won't go rushing to her

> rescue every time she feels like she has an emergency. She is

> capable of turning even the most minor need into a big drama.

> The more she calls me to deal with her problems, the slower I am

> to respond to the ones that aren't really emergencies or that

> she could deal with herself. Each time I tell her that I have a

> limited amount of time to help her so she should make sure she

> really needs my help.

>

> It sounds like you need some boundaries concerning phone calls.

> The goal in setting a boundary about phone calls is to allow you

> to be left in peace and for you not to dread the sound of the

> phone ringing. The consequences of her breaking the boundary

> should be geared towards achieving that. Normally I don't think

> it works well to specifically tell a nada what your rules are,

> but when it comes to phone calls, it is sometimes necessary. In

> your position, I think I'd tell her that you're willing to talk

> to her X times a week on the phone and that you're not going to

> listen to more messages than that. If she wants to use up all

> her calls leaving messages in a single night, then don't answer

> any more calls from her and delete the messages. (If you're

> worried that she might have a real emergency, you could choose

> to listen to the messages just long enough to tell what she's

> calling about and make sure it isn't an emergency.) If she's in

> the habit of calling at inapproiate times, you might have to

> tell her what hours are okay for calls as well. My nada used to

> call me at all hours of the day and night. I no longer answer

> calls from her that are too late at night or unreasonably early

> in the morning. If she has a real emergency in the middle of the

> night, she can tell my voicemail all about it and I can listen

> to it and call her back.

>

> You are not responsible for her problems. You have no obligation

> to try to fix all her problems for her or to listen to her when

> she's being abusive. If she needs help, she could choose to get

> it. At 67 she's probably old enough to get services for senior

> citizens. Alcoholics Anonymous could help her with her alcohol

> problems. If she chooses not to make use of the help that is

> available, that's her problem, not yours.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tracey,

Remember to keep in mind that her decision to keep drinking is

her problem, not yours. You don't have to let her make the

results your responsibility. She is not a child and you are not

her mother. You can choose to let her have one crisis after

another without you. If boundaries don't work to protect you,

either because you can't bring yourself to enforce them or

because she just escalates her behavior when you try, going no

contact is an option and you shouldn't feel bad if that's the

choice you have to make to protect yourself. Even if boundaries

do work to some extent, you can still choose the option of no

contact. You don't have to put up with an abusive relationship

if you don't want to. If you refuse to deal with her problems,

she will most likely find someone else to attach herself to. You

don't have to let her suck you dry.

At 06:08 PM 08/28/2012 wrote:

>Hi Katrina,

>

>Yes i am having problems with the 2nd part which is figuring

>out the consequences when she breaks the boundary. what is a

>reasonable consequence and what happens when she breaks

>that. It is just one crisis after another and it is constant

>anymore since I am the only one left she can call. At this

>point it is overwhelming for me.

>

>She refuses to quit drinking so AA is not an option. I have

>thought about telling her that I can't have contact unless she

>is clean and sober but last time I did that we didn't speak for

>8 years! and the only reason we spoke again was because my dad

>died. She won't quit drinking, she has been doing it all her

>life and says she won't stop. So that is not an option. It is

>very hard to find a way to deal with somoene who is constantly

>drunk and also has BPD. Means I am continually dealing with

>someone who is irational and unreasonable.

>

>It would be so nice to just be a daughter and not have to be a

>psychiatrist to deal with my own mother! It is exhausting.

>

>I am going to work on the consequences part of the boundary but

>honestly i don't think there will be any peace for me now that

>she is alone it will just be one crisis after another. Next

>she will be getting evicted becuase she didn't pay her rent and

>spent all her money on booze. Then I will be getting a million

>frantic calls about her being on the street. The whole thing

>is just crazy and draining.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I keep forgetting that i do have choices. Thank you for this reminder that I

can choose to let her have one crisis after another without me. I guess I never

thought of it that way. I kept thinking I had to somehow " fix " or stop the

crisis from happening. Which is why i was getting so overwhelmed becuase I know

I can't and then I have lots of fear that she won't survive if I don't somehow

help.

But again I am not here on this earth to save her or fix her as both are beyond

my capabilites but she drummed that in my head for so long that it is hard to

get it out! She is responsible for her own life and I am going to have to step

back and if she falls I have to let that happen however difficult it is for me I

will just have to live with the guilt and stay away or at least distance myself

enough so that I can have a life and be happy even though she isn't.

They do make us feel so responsible for their happiness and well being. It is

just to heavy a burden to be responsible for all that.

Thank You so much to everyone who responded and to all on this list who provide

so much help!

>

> Tracey,

>

> Remember to keep in mind that her decision to keep drinking is

> her problem, not yours. You don't have to let her make the

> results your responsibility. She is not a child and you are not

> her mother. You can choose to let her have one crisis after

> another without you. If boundaries don't work to protect you,

> either because you can't bring yourself to enforce them or

> because she just escalates her behavior when you try, going no

> contact is an option and you shouldn't feel bad if that's the

> choice you have to make to protect yourself. Even if boundaries

> do work to some extent, you can still choose the option of no

> contact. You don't have to put up with an abusive relationship

> if you don't want to. If you refuse to deal with her problems,

> she will most likely find someone else to attach herself to. You

> don't have to let her suck you dry.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry you are going through this, Tracey. I can relate to the BPD

causing huge amounts of stress. My mum died from alcoholism in the end. I

tried hard to get her help but her liver was too far gone at that point.

My personal opinion is that I wouldn't pay for anything in a BPD's life except

therapy or rehab. That would be my bottom line. At least if the BPD goes to

rehab they will have a place to live for some time and maybe, but not always,

get help. There are halfway houses that help folks with addictions, and mental

health issues, get back on their feet.

Have you tried going to Alanon meetings? I found a huge amount of support for

dealing with my mother at those meetings. I went to beginner meetings at first

so I could grasp the basics and vent, then moved on to the other meetings. I

met some wonderful, supportive people that helped me through some really tough

times. Many meetings are online now so you don't even have to leave your home,

although I prefer face to face meetings.

God bless you!

Fran

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

>

>

> I am just at my wit's end with BPD mother. She is an alcoholic in addition

> to her BPD and is now alone for the first time in her life (she is 67 years

> old). Her boyfriend had her evicted a few months ago for her abusiveness

> and out of control drinking behaviors. She lives 1,000 miles away from me

> and when he put her out of his house she wanted to move back here and I said

> NO you cannot move in with me nor move back here but I did give her money

> to get settled in an apt. there. She has almost no one left at this

> point in her life who will deal with her and since her boyfriend ended their

> relationship all her rage and needs are being directed at me. She is now

> constantly calling and either raging at me or talking as though nothing is

> wrong afterward. I can get 6 or 7 voicemails a night that are all raging

> and abusive because I won't let her move back here with me or because I

> won't do whatever it is she wants in the moment. Then 2 days later she

> calls and leaves messages as though nothing is wrong or saying how she feels

> so alone and it is so hard for her etc. trying to guilt me. I just cannot

> get a minute's peace.

>

>

>

> I did read Lawson's book and she is definitely the Witch/Queen. She has an

> outrageous sense of entitlement. She believes I owe her my life and still

> refers to me as her " kid " or the " kid " and I am 45 years old!

>

>

>

> I have been seeing a therapist who has been helping me set boundaries but

> she crosses everyone I set. I am an only child and don't want to go NC but

> she is driving me crazy and it is affecting my life terribly. I have not

> answered her calls the last 5 days and am not sure how to proceed but I just

> can't go on like this. I feel like I am a hostage to these calls and to her

> needs which never end. She is a low functioning borderline and for most of

> her life has relied on manipulating someone to take care of her. She has

> never been able to hold a job for long. She can't stand being told what to

> do. So now for the first time in her life she is on her own with no one to

> pick up the pieces and take her in and take care of her. At this point she

> has alienated everyone with her drinking and the abusive behavior.

>

>

>

> My father passed away 4 years ago and left her a pension even thought they

> were divorced for many years she was still entitled to that so she does get

> income even though it is not a lot it would be enough for her to live if she

> wasn't drinking and smoking constantly. I have serious doubts that she

> will be able to keep up this apartment, pay bills and be a responsible adult

> since she never has been.

>

> I can't afford to pay her rent every month so she may get evicted from

> there. It is just a mess and I am not sure what to do or whether to cut

> contact as I can see the disaster ahead. I have encouraged her to get help

> and or go to AA etc. but she won't do it and refuses to quit drinking.

>

>

>

> I would appreciate and advice you wonderful people have here on setting

> boundaries and or going No Contact.

>

>

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm glad I could help. It is easy to forget that you don't have

to jump when they want you to when you were raised to do so.

When you've been told all your life that you have no choice, it

is easy to forget that you have a choice.

You have no reason to feel guilt for not trying to fix

everything for her. I'm in agreement with the others who've

suggested that Al Anon might help you. I've heard a lot of good

things about how they help people to understand that they don't

have to and shouldn't keep fixing things for alcoholic relatives

and that they don't need to feel guilt over that.

At 09:33 PM 08/28/2012 wrote:

>I keep forgetting that i do have choices. Thank you for this

>reminder that I can choose to let her have one crisis after

>another without me. I guess I never thought of it that way. I

>kept thinking I had to somehow " fix " or stop the crisis from

>happening. Which is why i was getting so overwhelmed becuase I

>know I can't and then I have lots of fear that she won't

>survive if I don't somehow help.

>

>But again I am not here on this earth to save her or fix her as

>both are beyond my capabilites but she drummed that in my head

>for so long that it is hard to get it out! She is responsible

>for her own life and I am going to have to step back and if she

>falls I have to let that happen however difficult it is for me

>I will just have to live with the guilt and stay away or at

>least distance myself enough so that I can have a life and be

>happy even though she isn't.

>

>They do make us feel so responsible for their happiness and

>well being. It is just to heavy a burden to be responsible for

>all that.

>

>Thank You so much to everyone who responded and to all on this

>list who provide so much help!

>

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Others are right--your mothers crisis does not have to be your crisis.

You said above that you are the only one she can call. That is not true. She

could call any number of people: therapists, pastors, friends, social workers,

doctors....She just chooses not to. You do not have to try to carry a burden you

are not trained or qualified for. She will figure something out if you give her

the opportunity (even if shes not happy about it).

Sveta

PS sorry to the digest readers, i am having trouble selecting blocks of text

right now and cant delete the following.

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> >

> >

> > I am just at my wit's end with BPD mother. She is an alcoholic in addition

> > to her BPD and is now alone for the first time in her life (she is 67 years

> > old). Her boyfriend had her evicted a few months ago for her abusiveness

> > and out of control drinking behaviors. She lives 1,000 miles away from me

> > and when he put her out of his house she wanted to move back here and I said

> > NO you cannot move in with me nor move back here but I did give her money

> > to get settled in an apt. there. She has almost no one left at this

> > point in her life who will deal with her and since her boyfriend ended their

> > relationship all her rage and needs are being directed at me. She is now

> > constantly calling and either raging at me or talking as though nothing is

> > wrong afterward. I can get 6 or 7 voicemails a night that are all raging

> > and abusive because I won't let her move back here with me or because I

> > won't do whatever it is she wants in the moment. Then 2 days later she

> > calls and leaves messages as though nothing is wrong or saying how she feels

> > so alone and it is so hard for her etc. trying to guilt me. I just cannot

> > get a minute's peace.

> >

> >

> >

> > I did read Lawson's book and she is definitely the Witch/Queen. She has an

> > outrageous sense of entitlement. She believes I owe her my life and still

> > refers to me as her " kid " or the " kid " and I am 45 years old!

> >

> >

> >

> > I have been seeing a therapist who has been helping me set boundaries but

> > she crosses everyone I set. I am an only child and don't want to go NC but

> > she is driving me crazy and it is affecting my life terribly. I have not

> > answered her calls the last 5 days and am not sure how to proceed but I just

> > can't go on like this. I feel like I am a hostage to these calls and to her

> > needs which never end. She is a low functioning borderline and for most of

> > her life has relied on manipulating someone to take care of her. She has

> > never been able to hold a job for long. She can't stand being told what to

> > do. So now for the first time in her life she is on her own with no one to

> > pick up the pieces and take her in and take care of her. At this point she

> > has alienated everyone with her drinking and the abusive behavior.

> >

> >

> >

> > My father passed away 4 years ago and left her a pension even thought they

> > were divorced for many years she was still entitled to that so she does get

> > income even though it is not a lot it would be enough for her to live if she

> > wasn't drinking and smoking constantly. I have serious doubts that she

> > will be able to keep up this apartment, pay bills and be a responsible adult

> > since she never has been.

> >

> > I can't afford to pay her rent every month so she may get evicted from

> > there. It is just a mess and I am not sure what to do or whether to cut

> > contact as I can see the disaster ahead. I have encouraged her to get help

> > and or go to AA etc. but she won't do it and refuses to quit drinking.

> >

> >

> >

> > I would appreciate and advice you wonderful people have here on setting

> > boundaries and or going No Contact.

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >