Married to a flying monkey or just clueless?

[Guest guest]

This morning nada called. I was on my way to the bathroom so hubby picked up the

phone. She went on and on about how she feels like I'm rejecting her, that she's

trying so hard to save money to leave to me when she dies, that she's excited

about doing this for me. And when she tries to give me cash (like the $100 bill

last week) I pull back and don't want to accept it.

I've explained to her that all the money is hers to use and enjoy now. I don't

want to come across as some money grabbing person that's only interested in

inheriting everything. But she keeps telling me that she wants to give me money

now. In the next breath she'll complain about her neighbor who is taking care of

her mom just so she can control mom's finances. A couple years ago my nada

accused us of taking financial advantage of her. And now I'm supposed to happily

accept things from her?

When hubby got off the phone he was all sympathetic towards nada. That she's

feeling so much regret for the way she treated me as a child, leaving me alone

so much while she went out with men or went shopping. He believes she's really

trying to make amends. He says I shouldn't push back so hard because it hurts

her feelings. Now this is coming from the same man that helped his dad make out

a will that leaves nothing to him (my hubby) because of his own crappy childhood

and the way they've ignored and rejected him all his life. He said he wants

nothing from them. Yet I'm supposed to open up and accept my nada's " gifts? " I

told him that I don't trust her. He should understand that because she's

emotionally stabbed him in the back many times over the years.

Perhaps he's more forgiving than I am or she's manipulating him now. He is a

soft touch. But it makes me sick to hear this from the man I love. He knows the

pain she's caused me. But he seems to believe she's changing into a warm, loving

person now that she's very old and in bad health. I told him, sure I can accept

money and gifts to make her feel good but I'm afraid she'll rise up and attack

me 2 or 3 months down the road. She already tells the neighbor how she always

buys lunch for us (she won't let us pay ever), how I have a key to her house and

can walk in at any time (I don't, I always call and schedule a time to go over).

This is just making me sick and want to cry.

[Guest guest]

(((((Irene)))))

That is uncanny; my bpd/npd nada had that exact same behavior RE

money/inheritance, in virtually the exact same words. I ended up telling her in

front of witnesses that I wanted my name taken off all her financial documents,

and I wanted out of her will, because of her behaviors: she falsely accused

Sister and me of taking money from her, and then acted hurt when we refused to

accept monetary gifts from her and wanted to cut all contact with her.

Here are some things that occur to me RE your husband:

I think its just human nature to want to forgive and see the best in people, to

believe that change for the good is possible; most people have the quality of

empathy and compassion and WANT to give others second (or third or fourth)

chances.

Those with bpd (and narcissistic pd and psychopathy) are really, really GOOD at

persuading, conning and manipulating others. Its an art form for them. Even

Dr. Hare, the current " guru " of the study and analysis of psychopathy,

said that he himself has been fooled by psychopaths, more than once. They're

THAT good at it.

Most people do not like confrontation, and try to avoid it.

You mentioned that your husband in particular has a very tender heart; its

probably one of the sweet qualities that drew you to him.

So, I suggest that you just calmly explain to your husband *again* that you can

no longer trust your mother, that she has a long history and repetitive pattern

of *seeming* to be sweet and remorseful just to lure you in so that she can then

attack you or blame you for hurting her, again.

And then add that if she phones again and he picks it up, let him know that

what you would like him to do is just say something like, " Gosh, I was just on

my way out, could you call back later? "

If a highly trained professional like Dr. Hare can be taken in by skilled

manipulators, then, the rest of us don't stand much of a chance when a

sincere-sounding highly manipulative pd person charms us with their " hurt puppy "

or " frightened waif " or " remorseful sinner " ploy.

Just my two cent's worth, to mull over. If it doesn't resonate with you, I hope

you will find something that does. Our healing is about finding ways to cope

that do resonate with us.

There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

-Annie

>

> This morning nada called. I was on my way to the bathroom so hubby picked up

the phone. She went on and on about how she feels like I'm rejecting her, that

she's trying so hard to save money to leave to me when she dies, that she's

excited about doing this for me. And when she tries to give me cash (like the

$100 bill last week) I pull back and don't want to accept it.

>

> I've explained to her that all the money is hers to use and enjoy now. I don't

want to come across as some money grabbing person that's only interested in

inheriting everything. But she keeps telling me that she wants to give me money

now. In the next breath she'll complain about her neighbor who is taking care of

her mom just so she can control mom's finances. A couple years ago my nada

accused us of taking financial advantage of her. And now I'm supposed to happily

accept things from her?

>

> When hubby got off the phone he was all sympathetic towards nada. That she's

feeling so much regret for the way she treated me as a child, leaving me alone

so much while she went out with men or went shopping. He believes she's really

trying to make amends. He says I shouldn't push back so hard because it hurts

her feelings. Now this is coming from the same man that helped his dad make out

a will that leaves nothing to him (my hubby) because of his own crappy childhood

and the way they've ignored and rejected him all his life. He said he wants

nothing from them. Yet I'm supposed to open up and accept my nada's " gifts? " I

told him that I don't trust her. He should understand that because she's

emotionally stabbed him in the back many times over the years.

>

> Perhaps he's more forgiving than I am or she's manipulating him now. He is a

soft touch. But it makes me sick to hear this from the man I love. He knows the

pain she's caused me. But he seems to believe she's changing into a warm, loving

person now that she's very old and in bad health. I told him, sure I can accept

money and gifts to make her feel good but I'm afraid she'll rise up and attack

me 2 or 3 months down the road. She already tells the neighbor how she always

buys lunch for us (she won't let us pay ever), how I have a key to her house and

can walk in at any time (I don't, I always call and schedule a time to go over).

This is just making me sick and want to cry.

>

[Guest guest]

He is probably being manipulated by guilt. He should be on your side. The

money thing is crazy. Normal people don't talk like that. They live their

lives and write wills and they die. Then you find out what you get if

anything. Only these bpd maniacs put dollars on hooks to bait and

manipulate people. Run run run from this woman and make sure your husband

knows to be on your side no matter what. There's no compromise with

manipulation. I'm a being harsh here so please understand I'm speaking from

my experience. I am fed up. I don't know your situation.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...> wr

o:

> **

>

>

> (((((Irene)))))

> That is uncanny; my bpd/npd nada had that exact same behavior RE

> money/inheritance, in virtually the exact same words. I ended up telling

> her in front of witnesses that I wanted my name taken off all her financial

> documents, and I wanted out of her will, because of her behaviors: she

> falsely accused Sister and me of taking money from her, and then acted hurt

> when we refused to accept monetary gifts from her and wanted to cut all

> contact with her.

>

> Here are some things that occur to me RE your husband:

>

> I think its just human nature to want to forgive and see the best in

> people, to believe that change for the good is possible; most people have

> the quality of empathy and compassion and WANT to give others second (or

> third or fourth) chances.

>

> Those with bpd (and narcissistic pd and psychopathy) are really, really

> GOOD at persuading, conning and manipulating others. Its an art form for

> them. Even Dr. Hare, the current " guru " of the study and analysis of

> psychopathy, said that he himself has been fooled by psychopaths, more than

> once. They're THAT good at it.

>

> Most people do not like confrontation, and try to avoid it.

>

> You mentioned that your husband in particular has a very tender heart; its

> probably one of the sweet qualities that drew you to him.

>

> So, I suggest that you just calmly explain to your husband *again* that

> you can no longer trust your mother, that she has a long history and

> repetitive pattern of *seeming* to be sweet and remorseful just to lure you

> in so that she can then attack you or blame you for hurting her, again.

>

> And then add that if she phones again and he picks it up, let him know

> that what you would like him to do is just say something like, " Gosh, I was

> just on my way out, could you call back later? "

>

> If a highly trained professional like Dr. Hare can be taken in by skilled

> manipulators, then, the rest of us don't stand much of a chance when a

> sincere-sounding highly manipulative pd person charms us with their " hurt

> puppy " or " frightened waif " or " remorseful sinner " ploy.

>

> Just my two cent's worth, to mull over. If it doesn't resonate with you, I

> hope you will find something that does. Our healing is about finding ways

> to cope that do resonate with us.

> There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > This morning nada called. I was on my way to the bathroom so hubby

> picked up the phone. She went on and on about how she feels like I'm

> rejecting her, that she's trying so hard to save money to leave to me when

> she dies, that she's excited about doing this for me. And when she tries to

> give me cash (like the $100 bill last week) I pull back and don't want to

> accept it.

> >

> > I've explained to her that all the money is hers to use and enjoy now. I

> don't want to come across as some money grabbing person that's only

> interested in inheriting everything. But she keeps telling me that she

> wants to give me money now. In the next breath she'll complain about her

> neighbor who is taking care of her mom just so she can control mom's

> finances. A couple years ago my nada accused us of taking financial

> advantage of her. And now I'm supposed to happily accept things from her?

> >

> > When hubby got off the phone he was all sympathetic towards nada. That

> she's feeling so much regret for the way she treated me as a child, leaving

> me alone so much while she went out with men or went shopping. He believes

> she's really trying to make amends. He says I shouldn't push back so hard

> because it hurts her feelings. Now this is coming from the same man that

> helped his dad make out a will that leaves nothing to him (my hubby)

> because of his own crappy childhood and the way they've ignored and

> rejected him all his life. He said he wants nothing from them. Yet I'm

> supposed to open up and accept my nada's " gifts? " I told him that I don't

> trust her. He should understand that because she's emotionally stabbed him

> in the back many times over the years.

> >

> > Perhaps he's more forgiving than I am or she's manipulating him now. He

> is a soft touch. But it makes me sick to hear this from the man I love. He

> knows the pain she's caused me. But he seems to believe she's changing into

> a warm, loving person now that she's very old and in bad health. I told

> him, sure I can accept money and gifts to make her feel good but I'm afraid

> she'll rise up and attack me 2 or 3 months down the road. She already tells

> the neighbor how she always buys lunch for us (she won't let us pay ever),

> how I have a key to her house and can walk in at any time (I don't, I

> always call and schedule a time to go over). This is just making me sick

> and want to cry.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think it would be a fulltime job for me to run around and correct all the

distortions our BPD flings out to everyone. I tried to correct the " lies " in

the past but to be honest I have better things to do these days than to follow a

mad woman (or man) 24/7 and make sure everyone knows the real deal. IF folks

can't see through the BS, and 85% of them do, then it is simply not my problem.

I can't worry about the 15% that are unhealthy, naive, or codependent, and fall

for the BPD manipulations. They have to wake up to their own problems within

themselves. There are many other forms of illness within people besides BPD and

I won't accomodate them either unless they are a journey for wellness and

whole-ness.

One thing that I do with my husband is not ask what details when on in the

conversation with the BPD. The need to know can turn into an obsession if I am

not careful. Mainly it is a control issue on my part to be honest and is rooted

in fear. I am trying very hard not to get involved in that triangle. I only ask

if she is OK and if my husband is OK with the conversation. If he isn't I will

discuss what HE CAN DO to make the experience healthy for him. If he goes into

great detail I might listen but will put it on him to change.(Asking him why he

puts up with abuse, manipulations, or false informtion? Does he have to stay on

the phone when the conversation gets into an argument? What does he expect to

accomplish in arguing with a person that will NEVER change until she gets help?

Why is my name mentioned when I am not there? If the BPD has a problem with me

they need to talk directly to me and not a third party! So I refuse to talk to

my husband about the BPD as well. End of conversation!! I am not talking to the

BPD for over a year now so I know that she will not contact me since her

objective is to just stir up strife in the family and NOT TO SOLVE PROBLEMS. If

at anytime she does want to solve problems it will be in a therapists office for

family counseling and no other way.)

His feelings are not mine and I am in no way obligated to change just because he

can't handle the " BPD rubbish fest " . My husband is very codependent and has to

learn to deal with his own issues when it comes to people. I make it clear that

I won't be manipulated by his unhealthy behavior or the BPD. My husband has no

right to demand that I changed based on contact with the BPD. Been there done

that and to be honest, when I did accomodate the BPD early in my marriage she

would aways change the standard and I had to jump through another hoop for the

BDP. Nothing was good enough so I refuse to accomodate that sick behavior! I

refuse to go there today as it will NEVER accomplish anything. It is a waste of

my time to even go there.

You can tell this is one area that really ticks me off! I have been down this

road for 14 years of my marriage and won't do it anymore. I know for sure it is

a dead end! I hate dead ends in relationships. I won't jump through hoops for

other people anymore. Ain't going to happen. The hoop will always change

postition and I end up getting hurt and frustrated. People around me end up not

respecting me because I have no self respect when I let them walk all over me.

It is a horrible cycle.

Blessings,

Fran

>

> This morning nada called. I was on my way to the bathroom so hubby picked up

the phone. She went on and on about how she feels like I'm rejecting her, that

she's trying so hard to save money to leave to me when she dies, that she's

excited about doing this for me. And when she tries to give me cash (like the

$100 bill last week) I pull back and don't want to accept it.

>

> I've explained to her that all the money is hers to use and enjoy now. I don't

want to come across as some money grabbing person that's only interested in

inheriting everything. But she keeps telling me that she wants to give me money

now. In the next breath she'll complain about her neighbor who is taking care of

her mom just so she can control mom's finances. A couple years ago my nada

accused us of taking financial advantage of her. And now I'm supposed to happily

accept things from her?

>

> When hubby got off the phone he was all sympathetic towards nada. That she's

feeling so much regret for the way she treated me as a child, leaving me alone

so much while she went out with men or went shopping. He believes she's really

trying to make amends. He says I shouldn't push back so hard because it hurts

her feelings. Now this is coming from the same man that helped his dad make out

a will that leaves nothing to him (my hubby) because of his own crappy childhood

and the way they've ignored and rejected him all his life. He said he wants

nothing from them. Yet I'm supposed to open up and accept my nada's " gifts? " I

told him that I don't trust her. He should understand that because she's

emotionally stabbed him in the back many times over the years.

>

> Perhaps he's more forgiving than I am or she's manipulating him now. He is a

soft touch. But it makes me sick to hear this from the man I love. He knows the

pain she's caused me. But he seems to believe she's changing into a warm, loving

person now that she's very old and in bad health. I told him, sure I can accept

money and gifts to make her feel good but I'm afraid she'll rise up and attack

me 2 or 3 months down the road. She already tells the neighbor how she always

buys lunch for us (she won't let us pay ever), how I have a key to her house and

can walk in at any time (I don't, I always call and schedule a time to go over).

This is just making me sick and want to cry.

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Things have been so hectic between

nada " losing " things like her purse and glasses and then our daughter having

good news(finally got a full time job) and bad news (hopes we'll help take care

of the grandkids because her hubby won't do it). Life is so messy.

I'm with you: if my husband speaks to nada, I don't want the details. Sometimes

he can read things into what she says and it just upsets me even more.

Especially if she's said things about me. I don't want to know.

One reason I fell in love with my husband (39 years ago!) was his sensitive

nature and gentleness. But when it comes to nada, I don't want to hear about how

she might feel. Maybe he's right but I just can't let go of the pain and

humiliation she's put me through for almost 60 years. I mean I let go in one

sense in that I refuse to dwell on it but I'm not willing to open myself and

trust her whole heartedly. That's her loss. I lost having a mother years ago. I

can deal with that.

>

> I think it would be a fulltime job for me to run around and correct all the

distortions our BPD flings out to everyone. I tried to correct the " lies " in

the past but to be honest I have better things to do these days than to follow a

mad woman (or man) 24/7 and make sure everyone knows the real deal. IF folks

can't see through the BS, and 85% of them do, then it is simply not my problem.

I can't worry about the 15% that are unhealthy, naive, or codependent, and fall

for the BPD manipulations. They have to wake up to their own problems within

themselves. There are many other forms of illness within people besides BPD and

I won't accomodate them either unless they are a journey for wellness and

whole-ness.

>

> One thing that I do with my husband is not ask what details when on in the

conversation with the BPD. The need to know can turn into an obsession if I am

not careful. Mainly it is a control issue on my part to be honest and is rooted

in fear. I am trying very hard not to get involved in that triangle. I only ask

if she is OK and if my husband is OK with the conversation. If he isn't I will

discuss what HE CAN DO to make the experience healthy for him. If he goes into

great detail I might listen but will put it on him to change.(Asking him why he

puts up with abuse, manipulations, or false informtion? Does he have to stay on

the phone when the conversation gets into an argument? What does he expect to

accomplish in arguing with a person that will NEVER change until she gets help?

Why is my name mentioned when I am not there? If the BPD has a problem with me

they need to talk directly to me and not a third party! So I refuse to talk to

my husband about the BPD as well. End of conversation!! I am not talking to the

BPD for over a year now so I know that she will not contact me since her

objective is to just stir up strife in the family and NOT TO SOLVE PROBLEMS. If

at anytime she does want to solve problems it will be in a therapists office for

family counseling and no other way.)

>

> His feelings are not mine and I am in no way obligated to change just because

he can't handle the " BPD rubbish fest " . My husband is very codependent and has

to learn to deal with his own issues when it comes to people. I make it clear

that I won't be manipulated by his unhealthy behavior or the BPD. My husband

has no right to demand that I changed based on contact with the BPD. Been there

done that and to be honest, when I did accomodate the BPD early in my marriage

she would aways change the standard and I had to jump through another hoop for

the BDP. Nothing was good enough so I refuse to accomodate that sick behavior!

I refuse to go there today as it will NEVER accomplish anything. It is a waste

of my time to even go there.

>

> You can tell this is one area that really ticks me off! I have been down this

road for 14 years of my marriage and won't do it anymore. I know for sure it is

a dead end! I hate dead ends in relationships. I won't jump through hoops for

other people anymore. Ain't going to happen. The hoop will always change

postition and I end up getting hurt and frustrated. People around me end up not

respecting me because I have no self respect when I let them walk all over me.

It is a horrible cycle.

>

> Blessings,

> Fran

>

[Guest guest]

He waffles back and forth in re to his feelings about her. Just today he

reminded me that she'll die just as she's lived and that she'll never change. In

other words, she'll always be manipulative and bitchy. So he knows what she's

like.

I did have a talk with him about this. I told him that I felt he was being more

" sensitive " towards her than he was towards me. He knows my history with her,

has some history of his own with her since we've been married. Anyway, I let him

know that I didn't like being treated as the outsider, the one who doesn't

understand. I already put myself way out there for her in terms of being

available and patient and helpful. It's outside my comfort zone.

>

> He is probably being manipulated by guilt. He should be on your side. The

> money thing is crazy. Normal people don't talk like that. They live their

> lives and write wills and they die. Then you find out what you get if

> anything. Only these bpd maniacs put dollars on hooks to bait and

> manipulate people. Run run run from this woman and make sure your husband

> knows to be on your side no matter what. There's no compromise with

> manipulation. I'm a being harsh here so please understand I'm speaking from

> my experience. I am fed up. I don't know your situation.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the input. Yes, he tries to be very kind and forgiving. He knows

that holding onto hurt only hurts the person holding on to it. He doesn't want

to see me hurt. Yet most every time I go over there, she manages to either drain

me or hurt me. He went with me last Thurs. and came home so dumpy it took him 2

days to recover (he has some trouble with depression anyway).

And yes, his gentle qualities did draw me to him. I still appreciate that and

it's what makes him so good at hospice care.

Right now I'm ticked off with nada. This past week she's told me things I

suspected. She joked that she likes to upset her goofy neighbor by leading her

to believe that I'm neglectful. So when she tells the lady that she's going in

for surgery (she isn't), L. will ask her if I'll be staying with her. Nada just

sighs and says, no. L. starts ranting about how terrible that is. So many other

examples like L. asked her if we did anything for Easter for her and nada said

no. Every year I color eggs and buy small gifts for her, put them in a basket as

a little surprise.

Recently nada screwed up her alarm system - mostly she acts helpless and claims

she can't figure it out. So she had the alarm guy come (that's another story

about him calling us). He showed her how it's done but she said that I always

set the alarm for her. He told her that was an absolutely no, she should know

how to do it. It's all BS of course. She's been setting the alarm every night

and turning it off every morning since my Dad died over 4 years ago. But she got

the alarm guy's sympathy. All I do is set the alarm when we leave the house to

run errands. The only reason I do that is because you have to set it, get out

and shut the door rather quickly. Because of the steps down into the garage, I

worry she might rush and fall. So I'm trying to be nice and she uses it to make

me look like a bitch.

This morning she called and talked to my husband, told him she didn't know how

to turn off the alarm because. . . . I always do it. I am so pissed I either

hate her or want to kill myself so I don't have to deal with her sh*t any more.

Why do nadas go out of their way to make the very people that are trying to help

them look so bad? I understand if it's a pride thing if she makes a mistake but

the crap she tells the neighbor is out and out lies.

Can you tell I'm angry? I hate this feeling.

As for the will: I'm done with that. She got angry when I used to mention it

each time she lost it. Then I stopped talking about it or was blase about it

when she brought it up. Then she got all upset that I didn't seem to care. So I

told her I cared and I tried to help her find a decent lawyer to make a new one.

Now she says she's not going to worry about the will. I just said, fine - it'll

go into probate and they'll divide everything between me and her son from her

first marriage, Byron (whom she detests anyway).

Life sucks.

>

> (((((Irene)))))

> That is uncanny; my bpd/npd nada had that exact same behavior RE

money/inheritance, in virtually the exact same words. I ended up telling her in

front of witnesses that I wanted my name taken off all her financial documents,

and I wanted out of her will, because of her behaviors: she falsely accused

Sister and me of taking money from her, and then acted hurt when we refused to

accept monetary gifts from her and wanted to cut all contact with her.

>

> Here are some things that occur to me RE your husband:

>

> I think its just human nature to want to forgive and see the best in people,

to believe that change for the good is possible; most people have the quality

of empathy and compassion and WANT to give others second (or third or fourth)

chances.

>

> Those with bpd (and narcissistic pd and psychopathy) are really, really GOOD

at persuading, conning and manipulating others. Its an art form for them.

Even Dr. Hare, the current " guru " of the study and analysis of

psychopathy, said that he himself has been fooled by psychopaths, more than

once. They're THAT good at it.

>

> Most people do not like confrontation, and try to avoid it.

>

> You mentioned that your husband in particular has a very tender heart; its

probably one of the sweet qualities that drew you to him.

>

> So, I suggest that you just calmly explain to your husband *again* that you

can no longer trust your mother, that she has a long history and repetitive

pattern of *seeming* to be sweet and remorseful just to lure you in so that she

can then attack you or blame you for hurting her, again.

>

> And then add that if she phones again and he picks it up, let him know that

what you would like him to do is just say something like, " Gosh, I was just on

my way out, could you call back later? "

>

> If a highly trained professional like Dr. Hare can be taken in by skilled

manipulators, then, the rest of us don't stand much of a chance when a

sincere-sounding highly manipulative pd person charms us with their " hurt puppy "

or " frightened waif " or " remorseful sinner " ploy.

>

> Just my two cent's worth, to mull over. If it doesn't resonate with you, I

hope you will find something that does. Our healing is about finding ways to

cope that do resonate with us.

> There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

The passive-aggressive behaviors you're describing RE your nada, are really

REALLY difficult to deal with. Passive-aggressive behaviors are a way to show

real hostility, disrespect or even hatred for another, but in a relatively safe,

indirect, covert, easily-deniable or plausibly-deniable way. Its just

crazy-making to be subjected to such behaviors.

In earlier posts here, members have described such calculated but plausibly

deniable behaviors as their nada serving them foods that the nada KNEW her

adult child or her grandchild or her husband, etc., was allergic to. One nada

chose to show her hostility toward her adult daughter by mentally torturing her

little grandchild who was too ill to go trick or treating: the nada pointedly

asked her grandchild what costume she was going to wear for Trick or Treat,

after the mother (the KO who posted here) had expressly forbidden her nada to

mention Halloween to the very ill, bedridden child. Another nada left a small

ball of her own feces carefully moistened and hidden above the doorway in her

adult daughter's bathroom, and it took the daughter a while to locate the source

of the stink after her nada's visit was over.

My nada treated Sister a lot like the way you're being treated, in the last

years that our nada was alive, and it started making my poor Sister pretty

severely, alarmingly depressed until she (Sister) went into therapy. Sister's

therapist suggested that to Sister, our nada was like a lake full of toxic waste

that Sister needed to fly around or risk the engines shutting down due to the

toxic fumes rising up off the lake (Sister really related to airplane/ flight

analogies.)

So, for the sake of Sister's mental health, in order to remain in contact with

our nada so she could look after nada's physical needs, Sister told me that in

her heart, our mother had died. Sister was able to supervise our nada's care

and visit her and take her to doctor visits, etc., because this particular old

lady was no longer her mother, she was the same as a client: no emotional

attachment, no emotional connection.

That's one way to manage it; each of us has to find our own way, though. I

personally think my younger Sister is a candidate for sainthood. Genuinely: she

is a saint for putting up with the abuse that started in babyhood and lasted

until our nada died. I couldn't do it, I had to go No Contact.

I hope you find a way to manage your nada's rancid behaviors that works for you,

and your husband.

-Annie

>

> Thank you for the input. Yes, he tries to be very kind and forgiving. He knows

that holding onto hurt only hurts the person holding on to it. He doesn't want

to see me hurt. Yet most every time I go over there, she manages to either drain

me or hurt me. He went with me last Thurs. and came home so dumpy it took him 2

days to recover (he has some trouble with depression anyway).

>

> And yes, his gentle qualities did draw me to him. I still appreciate that and

it's what makes him so good at hospice care.

>

> Right now I'm ticked off with nada. This past week she's told me things I

suspected. She joked that she likes to upset her goofy neighbor by leading her

to believe that I'm neglectful. So when she tells the lady that she's going in

for surgery (she isn't), L. will ask her if I'll be staying with her. Nada just

sighs and says, no. L. starts ranting about how terrible that is. So many other

examples like L. asked her if we did anything for Easter for her and nada said

no. Every year I color eggs and buy small gifts for her, put them in a basket as

a little surprise.

>

> Recently nada screwed up her alarm system - mostly she acts helpless and

claims she can't figure it out. So she had the alarm guy come (that's another

story about him calling us). He showed her how it's done but she said that I

always set the alarm for her. He told her that was an absolutely no, she should

know how to do it. It's all BS of course. She's been setting the alarm every

night and turning it off every morning since my Dad died over 4 years ago. But

she got the alarm guy's sympathy. All I do is set the alarm when we leave the

house to run errands. The only reason I do that is because you have to set it,

get out and shut the door rather quickly. Because of the steps down into the

garage, I worry she might rush and fall. So I'm trying to be nice and she uses

it to make me look like a bitch.

>

> This morning she called and talked to my husband, told him she didn't know how

to turn off the alarm because. . . . I always do it. I am so pissed I either

hate her or want to kill myself so I don't have to deal with her sh*t any more.

>

> Why do nadas go out of their way to make the very people that are trying to

help them look so bad? I understand if it's a pride thing if she makes a mistake

but the crap she tells the neighbor is out and out lies.

>

> Can you tell I'm angry? I hate this feeling.

>

> As for the will: I'm done with that. She got angry when I used to mention it

each time she lost it. Then I stopped talking about it or was blase about it

when she brought it up. Then she got all upset that I didn't seem to care. So I

told her I cared and I tried to help her find a decent lawyer to make a new one.

Now she says she's not going to worry about the will. I just said, fine - it'll

go into probate and they'll divide everything between me and her son from her

first marriage, Byron (whom she detests anyway).

>

> Life sucks.

[Guest guest]

Just want to thank you for the reply. I managed to find my big girl panties and

put them on again. Just wish I'd quit losing them.

I used to take a similar view as your sister: look at nada as a pathetic

neighbor that you help occasionally. Actually years ago we did have 2 elderly

neighbors that needed our help and they were wonderful. They felt like the moms

I never had. Even our kids treated them like grandmas. I loved those two ladies

and think of them often even though they've been gone for years.

Anyway, I pulled myself together. Good thing since nada's fridge died and she

was in a tizzy. She said her life is a living hell. Ha, just because the fridge

died? So today we cleaned it out, took her shopping for a new fridge and

arranged delivery. The poor salesman tried to talk to her but she just glazed

over. Heck, even after we got back to her house and I wrote a note about

delivery (put pink paper in old fridge, call this phone number for pick up) she

just didn't seem to follow what I was saying. The delivery guys can help her

with that.

I have to pull away from her for awhile because I'm having some health problems

and need to get some testing done. I mentioned it to her but all she did was

talk about her own past tests and such.

Again, thanks for the input and support. Sometimes her behavior just bites me in

the rear.

>

> The passive-aggressive behaviors you're describing RE your nada, are really

REALLY difficult to deal with. Passive-aggressive behaviors are a way to show

real hostility, disrespect or even hatred for another, but in a relatively safe,

indirect, covert, easily-deniable or plausibly-deniable way. Its just

crazy-making to be subjected to such behaviors.

>

> In earlier posts here, members have described such calculated but plausibly

deniable behaviors as their nada serving them foods that the nada KNEW her

adult child or her grandchild or her husband, etc., was allergic to. One nada

chose to show her hostility toward her adult daughter by mentally torturing her

little grandchild who was too ill to go trick or treating: the nada pointedly

asked her grandchild what costume she was going to wear for Trick or Treat,

after the mother (the KO who posted here) had expressly forbidden her nada to

mention Halloween to the very ill, bedridden child. Another nada left a small

ball of her own feces carefully moistened and hidden above the doorway in her

adult daughter's bathroom, and it took the daughter a while to locate the source

of the stink after her nada's visit was over.

>

> My nada treated Sister a lot like the way you're being treated, in the last

years that our nada was alive, and it started making my poor Sister pretty

severely, alarmingly depressed until she (Sister) went into therapy. Sister's

therapist suggested that to Sister, our nada was like a lake full of toxic waste

that Sister needed to fly around or risk the engines shutting down due to the

toxic fumes rising up off the lake (Sister really related to airplane/ flight

analogies.)

>

> So, for the sake of Sister's mental health, in order to remain in contact with

our nada so she could look after nada's physical needs, Sister told me that in

her heart, our mother had died. Sister was able to supervise our nada's care

and visit her and take her to doctor visits, etc., because this particular old

lady was no longer her mother, she was the same as a client: no emotional

attachment, no emotional connection.

>

> That's one way to manage it; each of us has to find our own way, though. I

personally think my younger Sister is a candidate for sainthood. Genuinely: she

is a saint for putting up with the abuse that started in babyhood and lasted

until our nada died. I couldn't do it, I had to go No Contact.

>

> I hope you find a way to manage your nada's rancid behaviors that works for

you, and your husband.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>