RE: Nada is back

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry for you, Natcha! That is really, really painful. :-(

Question. . . did she ever apologize for the things that hurt you when you

went NC? Or was it all about her pain and needs?

I guess if I were you I would look at all the reasons you went NC with her

and make out a list (for yourself) of the boundaries you need to have in

place to keep you and your children safe from her if you started contact

again. After 15 months you'll probably be stronger about confronting her if

she acts poorly. I would give her the opportunity not just for you or her

but for the others that are watching. Your kids should see your compassion

for your mother and that you are trying and if they're old enough be told

some of the things that hurt you that you need to not allow so if she does

them they can see you were trying and she wasn't able to control herself,

again.

That will be very difficult. ***sigh*** My heart goes out to you and hope

the odds are in your favor and she actually can maintain a relationship with

you this time.

jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of

daszkelnatacha@...

Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 7:23 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Nada is back

Dear all,

I feel so emotional this afternoon.

I have gone NC with nada since last june 2011.

This morning I had the door ringing, opened and spoke with my elder son's

dad who came to bring back some things belonging to my son. Then he left.

Few minutes later, the door rang again, naturally I thought it was him back

having forgotten something, so didn't check and opened the door.

Nada was in front of me. I had such a shock. In about 15 months, she has got

very very old, nearly all her hair has become white and she has lots of

wrinkles. She had a vertigo so I let her in and made her seat in my kitchen

and we had a talk.

She has big health problems, heart and vertigos and she begged me to welcome

her back into our lives, she begged to see her grand children.

I told her that all the family (my uncles, aunties, cousins) has banished

me, she said that she asked them to keep contact with me, also after when

she will die.....

She told me that we have only one life !

She left asking me to think of it and to call her on phone when I have taken

my decision.

Well, I feel very guilty, I feel she got that old and sick because I went NC

with my three children and she couldn't handle it, I am scared if I refuse

her back she will die soon and I will never forgive me.

I think I am going for a walk now to go out and try to put my ideas

together, because I couldn't stop crying when she left, and I am at home but

I do nothing, I just feel so shocked, to see her that old, she really looks

like an old woman, and with a heart disease....

I don't think I could resist to welcome her back because if I don't and she

dies alone I will never forgive myself ....

I love her so much inside and that is so painfull ....

Lots of Love to all of you,

Natacha

[Guest guest]

It is not your fault she is getting older. It worked to her advantage that she

looks old and frail because it made you feel sorry for her--maybe she even looks

that way on purpose. But at any rate that is the natural course of things....

And of course she had a vertigo right when she got to your door--what better way

to manipulate you into inviting her inside? She really turned on the FOG with

you too. Let me just come out and say that you have been manipulated.

Think about why you chose NC. Do you see any evidence that her behavior is

improved? Did she offer you apologies or genuine remorse? Has she committed to

working on herself and regaining your trust? Or rather is she instead still the

same old nada, perhaps more miserable than before, who only wants to use you and

your children instead of caring about how she makes you feel?

Do you feel better now that you've seen her, or worse? Be very careful to make

decisions based on what is best for you and not because of manipulation and FOG.

Do you have a T that can help you process? Hope your walk was helpful.

Sveta

>

> Dear all,

>

> I feel so emotional this afternoon.

> I have gone NC with nada since last june 2011.

> This morning I had the door ringing, opened and spoke with my elder son's dad

who came to bring back some things belonging to my son. Then he left. Few

minutes later, the door rang again, naturally I thought it was him back having

forgotten something, so didn't check and opened the door.

>

> Nada was in front of me. I had such a shock. In about 15 months, she has got

very very old, nearly all her hair has become white and she has lots of

wrinkles. She had a vertigo so I let her in and made her seat in my kitchen and

we had a talk.

> She has big health problems, heart and vertigos and she begged me to welcome

her back into our lives, she begged to see her grand children.

> I told her that all the family (my uncles, aunties, cousins) has banished me,

she said that she asked them to keep contact with me, also after when she will

die.....

>

> She told me that we have only one life !

> She left asking me to think of it and to call her on phone when I have taken

my decision.

>

> Well, I feel very guilty, I feel she got that old and sick because I went NC

with my three children and she couldn't handle it, I am scared if I refuse her

back she will die soon and I will never forgive me.

> I think I am going for a walk now to go out and try to put my ideas together,

because I couldn't stop crying when she left, and I am at home but I do nothing,

I just feel so shocked, to see her that old, she really looks like an old woman,

and with a heart disease....

>

> I don't think I could resist to welcome her back because if I don't and she

dies alone I will never forgive myself ....

> I love her so much inside and that is so painfull ....

>

> Lots of Love to all of you,

>

> Natacha

>

[Guest guest]

(((((Natacha)))))

You did not cause your mother to be emotionally ill, you did not cause her to be

so abusive toward you that you had to take a " time out " from her. You did not

cause her to become physically ill, either, or to age.

I suggest that it shows your healthy human empathy and compassion to feel

*pity* for your nada, to feel sad for her, but the *guilt* and *responsibility*

you are feeling are misplaced and inappropriate. You have done nothing wrong.

Its not " wrong " to withdraw your hand from a red hot stove.

If it feels doable for you, you can try reestablishing contact with your nada

but I suggest that if you do, have firm boundaries in place to protect yourself.

My younger Sister went in and out of No Contact with our nada for the last few

years of nada's life. Sometimes nada initiated the No Contact and sometimes

Sister did. Sister felt she needed to stay in contact with our nada for

Sister's own peace of mind, and so she did.

So, don't beat yourself up. You did not cause your nada to reach the point she

is at, she did that to herself. Those with bpd are very, very good at playing

their best cards (aka being manipulative) to get what they want. Your nada was

using the " hurt puppy " card. I noticed that you didn't mention that your nada

apologized for anything; she didn't talk about having done anything wrong to

you, she didn't express any remorse. (Correct?)

So, choose whatever course of action seems best to you based on your needs,

your safety, and your family's needs and feelings.

Its possible to renew or allow contact without becoming your nada's emotional

punching bag again IF you drop your inappropriate feelings of guilt. The

inappropriate, misplaced guilt is likely to make you feel that you must allow

your nada to behave abusively toward you again, and that you are obligated to

just silently accept her abuse because you feel you deserve it. I suggest you

avoid that line of thinking/feeling like the plague.

Best of luck to you. Please don't beat yourself up for something you didn't do,

stay focused on why you needed to go No Contact in the first place, and then

show your nada pity and compassion from a safe, healthy emotional distance if

you want to; but avoid succumbing to her efforts to foist inappropriate Fear,

Obligation and Guilt on you.

-Annie

>

> Dear all,

>

> I feel so emotional this afternoon.

> I have gone NC with nada since last june 2011.

> This morning I had the door ringing, opened and spoke with my elder son's dad

who came to bring back some things belonging to my son. Then he left. Few

minutes later, the door rang again, naturally I thought it was him back having

forgotten something, so didn't check and opened the door.

>

> Nada was in front of me. I had such a shock. In about 15 months, she has got

very very old, nearly all her hair has become white and she has lots of

wrinkles. She had a vertigo so I let her in and made her seat in my kitchen and

we had a talk.

> She has big health problems, heart and vertigos and she begged me to welcome

her back into our lives, she begged to see her grand children.

> I told her that all the family (my uncles, aunties, cousins) has banished me,

she said that she asked them to keep contact with me, also after when she will

die.....

>

> She told me that we have only one life !

> She left asking me to think of it and to call her on phone when I have taken

my decision.

>

> Well, I feel very guilty, I feel she got that old and sick because I went NC

with my three children and she couldn't handle it, I am scared if I refuse her

back she will die soon and I will never forgive me.

> I think I am going for a walk now to go out and try to put my ideas together,

because I couldn't stop crying when she left, and I am at home but I do nothing,

I just feel so shocked, to see her that old, she really looks like an old woman,

and with a heart disease....

>

> I don't think I could resist to welcome her back because if I don't and she

dies alone I will never forgive myself ....

> I love her so much inside and that is so painfull ....

>

> Lots of Love to all of you,

>

> Natacha

>

[Guest guest]

Natacha,

It's a very sad situation, but I agree with the others who say you have to

stand your ground and remain NC and understand that her being old and sick

is not your fault or your responsibility. The guilty feelings are normal,

that's how BPD people raised you to feel, but try to release yourself from

that. One concern is that she stepped far across your boundary line by

showing up unannounced, looking very fragile, and that may be part of a

'dramatic' way to get your attention and reel you back in. Her behavior may

be better briefly, but it wouldn't last long, because if you give in, she

knows that being dramatic and acting old, frail, sick, and remorseful could

work on you and guilt you into putting up with her again. If you do decide

to reestablish contact, I'd recommend doing very, very, very sparse contact

with very clear rules/boundaries.You have to expect her to display standard

BPD behavior no matter what you do, so either way, you have to be fully

prepared to protect yourself, your emotional autonomy and integrity, and

protect your kids.

[Guest guest]

Hi Natacha,

I went thru something similar years ago with my Nada showing up at my door

after 3months of NC with all her belongings in her car and her dog...she

was evicted and had no place to go. It ended up being a total nightmare for

me. After months of trying to get her help for her BPS and Alcoholism,

placing in her rehabs (everyone she left), and driving me absolutely nuts I

ended up going NC again for years till my father died. Now we have contact

but again it is fraught with problems and issues because none of her

behaviors ever changed. So, what I am saying is be very careful here.

There are more options than just going full contact again. My guess is if

your Nada has not done some work on herself she has probably not changed and

you will encounter the same issues again.

I noticed with my Nada that after we resume contact after a period of NC she

is really good and nice but then something will happen again and she will

revert back to her same old self.

You may want to consider having limited contact and see how that goes. I

know how shocking it can be when you haven't seen your mom in awhile and

then to see how much they have aged. You become scared thinking she may die

and you won't have fixed things or made up etc. but if she has not worked on

herself all the same issues will surface and you will be right back in the

mix. My advice would be to take some time to think things thru and also to

figure out what your boundaries will be if you engage with her again. Then

maybe you can slowly resume contact if you want to but the key is to take it

slow. See if she is willing to accept your boundaries that will give you a

good idea of how much your mom is really willing to have a healthy

relationship with you not one based solely on her needs being met.

Tracey

[Guest guest]

Natacha,

It's like you were ambushed.

My first thought after reading your post was I know how you feel. I went NC with

my mother for only 6 weeks last year and she was so upset she lost 15 lbs. She

was depressed and wouldn't eat. I felt awful that she'd wasted away.

BUT.

I didn't tell her to stop eating. I told her to get help. It killed me, but I

wouldn't give in and seized the opportunity to lay my boundaries out for her to

take note of them. Seriously, my chest hurt and I had to do deep breathing

before dealing with her, but I knew I needed to do it.

Same with your nada.

She had the choice--we all do--to neglect herself and be the ultimate martyr OR

get on with her life, despite what you are saying or doing.

Please know, I'm not telling you " this is what you have to do. " I really don't

know what I would do, either. I would be very tempted to react to the emotion

of the situation.

From here, from my comfortable distance, my two cents is that you might consider

urging her to get help. That this is the moment for her to really show you how

much she loves your children, to be in therapy for a year or whatever boundary

it is you need to see her demonstrate or you need for her to honor ( " mom, I will

visit you once a month for 1 hour with the kids, that's all I'm willing to

do... " ).

I can imagine how her visit probably sucked the wind out of you. Please remember

why you went NC when you think about how bad she looked. There was a reason you

needed to do that.

We're here for you Natacha. Hugs!

>

> Dear all,

>

> I feel so emotional this afternoon.

> I have gone NC with nada since last june 2011.

> This morning I had the door ringing, opened and spoke with my elder son's dad

who came to bring back some things belonging to my son. Then he left. Few

minutes later, the door rang again, naturally I thought it was him back having

forgotten something, so didn't check and opened the door.

>

> Nada was in front of me. I had such a shock. In about 15 months, she has got

very very old, nearly all her hair has become white and she has lots of

wrinkles. She had a vertigo so I let her in and made her seat in my kitchen and

we had a talk.

> She has big health problems, heart and vertigos and she begged me to welcome

her back into our lives, she begged to see her grand children.

> I told her that all the family (my uncles, aunties, cousins) has banished me,

she said that she asked them to keep contact with me, also after when she will

die.....

>

> She told me that we have only one life !

> She left asking me to think of it and to call her on phone when I have taken

my decision.

>

> Well, I feel very guilty, I feel she got that old and sick because I went NC

with my three children and she couldn't handle it, I am scared if I refuse her

back she will die soon and I will never forgive me.

> I think I am going for a walk now to go out and try to put my ideas together,

because I couldn't stop crying when she left, and I am at home but I do nothing,

I just feel so shocked, to see her that old, she really looks like an old woman,

and with a heart disease....

>

> I don't think I could resist to welcome her back because if I don't and she

dies alone I will never forgive myself ....

> I love her so much inside and that is so painfull ....

>

> Lots of Love to all of you,

>

> Natacha

>