trauma and the brain

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

My hobby and therapy recently has been to write a blog, some of which draws on

my experiences with nada/fada and other kinds of insanity. I posted today about

how I've come to understand trauma and tried to cope with PTSD.

I thought it might be of interest.

http://ashanam.wordpress.com/2012/09/09/the-scent-of-a-lion-trauma-and-the-brain\

/

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

Fascinating; your analysis of the physiological underpinnings of the

threat/survival response really breaks it down in a meaningful and

easier-to-understand way! And, holy cow, your bpd mother did almost kill you,

her little two year old baby, with a freaking chair. Holy freaking cow, you

poor little kid. I'm so sorry; it sounds like nobody rescued you from her,

either. You should have been rescued, and you're genuinely lucky you're not

dead.

My earliest memory of being afraid at a reptile-brain level of my mother is from

about the age of three (based on the place it occurred), and it still amazes me

that I'd figured out *that early* that she wasn't safe for me to be around and I

could not trust her. (My memory of this incident begins with me hiding from

nada, covering my ears to not hear her sobbing and begging me to come to her,

and saying to myself, " No! She's just trying to trick me! " But I ended up

" forgetting " that reality and trauma-bonded to her at 4 (in a Stockholm

Syndrome type response) after she assaulted me in a kind of quasi-rape situation

that is still too triggering and shaming to discuss. I think I stopped being

" me " for a long time after that.

Thanks for the link, I'll read the psychiatric paper too. Excellent blog!

-Annie

>

> Hi all,

>

> My hobby and therapy recently has been to write a blog, some of which draws on

my experiences with nada/fada and other kinds of insanity. I posted today about

how I've come to understand trauma and tried to cope with PTSD.

>

> I thought it might be of interest.

>

>

http://ashanam.wordpress.com/2012/09/09/the-scent-of-a-lion-trauma-and-the-brain\

/

>

> Take care,

> Ashana

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for reading!

Four-year-olds don't have autonomous selves, so it may not be that you

trauma-bonded with her, so much as you didn't have the maturity to maintain in

your own mind what you wanted and needed when what nada wanted was so intensely

expressed.

I often remember feelings at the time of traumatic experiences that are not mine

at the level of my body--they are either the feeling the perpetrator required me

to have (because npds often demand that level of compliance) or the feeling of

the perpetrator. I didn't have the ability to clearly differentiate myself from

a powerful adult. I remember it in my body because that's how I understood

feelings at that age--not because they were my own feelings. I had my own

feelings as well. It's taken me a long time to make sense out of that.

Having your mother want something at 4 can make it feel like you want that same

something, because you only have very flimsy personal boundaries and her

feelings and needs and desires can leak into you. I also suspect that our

boundaries dissolve a little under extreme stress even when we are adults and

mature. You may not have forgotten so much as the pressure was more intense.

It may also have been too dangerous not to comply. Your goal wouldn't have been

to be a hero and stand up for yourself. It would have been to live.

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

The particular traumatic event I remember so vividly was a

life-trajectory-changing one for me, I think, because I truly felt, truly had

this sense that my mother was so angry at me that she was actually going to kill

me if I didn't do what she told me to do, but then when I did (protesting and

crying and begging please mommy no) she shamed and degraded me for doing it and

pretty much rejected me. With a look of pure disgust and loathing on her face,

she told me that I was repulsive, perverted and that nobody would ever love me:

that they'd look at me and feel revulsion. And now, she didn't love me,

either. It was my deepest trauma. I think that I did stop being myself and I

trauma bonded with her, like a hostage would, at that moment. There was no

escape for me, at 4. I remained unhealthily super-bonded/trauma-bonded with

nada (and dad) until my mid thirties.

-Annie

>

> Thanks for reading!

>

> Four-year-olds don't have autonomous selves, so it may not be that you

trauma-bonded with her, so much as you didn't have the maturity to maintain in

your own mind what you wanted and needed when what nada wanted was so intensely

expressed.

>

> I often remember feelings at the time of traumatic experiences that are not

mine at the level of my body--they are either the feeling the perpetrator

required me to have (because npds often demand that level of compliance) or the

feeling of the perpetrator. I didn't have the ability to clearly differentiate

myself from a powerful adult. I remember it in my body because that's how I

understood feelings at that age--not because they were my own feelings. I had

my own feelings as well. It's taken me a long time to make sense out of that.

>

> Having your mother want something at 4 can make it feel like you want that

same something, because you only have very flimsy personal boundaries and her

feelings and needs and desires can leak into you. I also suspect that our

boundaries dissolve a little under extreme stress even when we are adults and

mature. You may not have forgotten so much as the pressure was more intense.

>

> It may also have been too dangerous not to comply. Your goal wouldn't have

been to be a hero and stand up for yourself. It would have been to live.

>

> Take care,

> Ashana

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I'm sure this has been said before, but you are not disgusting or repulsive or

perverted. Your nada was. But I can imagine it would have been impossible not

to absorb her thought about you.

It's interesting to me that abusers nearly always see, or at least tell their

victims they see, the victim as having had a volition and desire that the

victim, in fact, never had. You were a child and unable to make your own

choices. The fact that you acted did not mean you wanted to act or even knew

how to make choices.

I did not resist (or even cry out against) much of my abuse until I was old

enough that I could either protect myself physically (against nada) or didn't

care whether resisting got me killed anymore (with fada). I knew resistance

could get me killed.

Honestly, and it's terrible, whatever your nada told you to do that you did, I

think you did the right thing in doing it. Better to have your nada degrade you

than be dead. And I think if your instinct was that she would kill you if you

didn't, you probably were right. You were a very brave little girl. And you

were a very brave little girl to do what nada and fada told you for years after

even though it must have been excruciatingly painful for you to do all those

years.

The fact that it went on until your 30s, when you were old enough and safe

enough to make different choices, is really the point of my blog: the limbic

system does not know things have changed. It only knows what worked in the

past. And what worked was compliance.

The chair incident has particular meaning for me as well, and I think it

probably had a similarly profound effect, although I'm still puzzling out what

it was fully. It was probably one of the first really bad things my mother did

to me after I was returned to the FOO from a foster care placement, and that may

have had a bearing on things.

Also, my mother went upstairs after that and attempted suicide (I suspect now

she thought she'd really killed me and was trying to escape a murder charge).

But after that my mother was hospitalized and my aunt came to stay with us until

my mother returned home, so I think some of the trauma is about the complex

interaction among the ideas that I could not return home to foster care where I

had been loved ever again, that there was someone else who was able to care for

me (my aunt), and that my mother was neither able to love me or care for me and

actually hated me.

I went to a neighbor when I found my mother semi-conscious in the bathtub with

slit wrists, and I suppose she must have made the call. And then another

neighbor held me and rocked me in the livingroom while paramedics and police

officers tramped in and out. So, someone was there, and cared for me. That's a

theme throughout my childhood. I wasn't rescued, but I was comforted and

supported by many other people--just not my relatives. I think this must have

been deeply confusing to me.

I think it can be hard not to hate ourselves for how absolutely helpless and

vulnerable we were--not just physically, but emotionally and psychologically.

But that's how children are, and that's why they need to be cared for. You

never did anything wrong. Your mother did. She betrayed you in the worst

possible way--by insisting you do something that would be harmful to you, and

then blaming you for having done it, when she is the one who made the choices

and had the power.

Sorry this got so long.

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

Annie, I am sorry you went through this. Adults can be so super sick in what

they do to children. It is not the child's fault. Your mother's evaluation of

you is wrong as well. Glad you are here and sharing. I appreciate your honesty

on this forum! You are a brave person.

> >

> > Thanks for reading!

> >

> > Four-year-olds don't have autonomous selves, so it may not be that you

trauma-bonded with her, so much as you didn't have the maturity to maintain in

your own mind what you wanted and needed when what nada wanted was so intensely

expressed.

> >

> > I often remember feelings at the time of traumatic experiences that are not

mine at the level of my body--they are either the feeling the perpetrator

required me to have (because npds often demand that level of compliance) or the

feeling of the perpetrator. I didn't have the ability to clearly differentiate

myself from a powerful adult. I remember it in my body because that's how I

understood feelings at that age--not because they were my own feelings. I had

my own feelings as well. It's taken me a long time to make sense out of that.

> >

> > Having your mother want something at 4 can make it feel like you want that

same something, because you only have very flimsy personal boundaries and her

feelings and needs and desires can leak into you. I also suspect that our

boundaries dissolve a little under extreme stress even when we are adults and

mature. You may not have forgotten so much as the pressure was more intense.

> >

> > It may also have been too dangerous not to comply. Your goal wouldn't have

been to be a hero and stand up for yourself. It would have been to live.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Ashana

> >

>

[Guest guest]

(((Annie))) I'm hugging 4 year old you (and you now). It makes me feel so sad

to read what you went through. I don't think there is a greater hurt than being

rejected by your own mother, esp so explicitly. I am so sorry.

I related to how you said you were " unhealthily super-bonded/trauma-bonded with

nada (and dad) until my mid thirties. " That's me, too. Except for me it lasted

until 40, 41. That unhealthy, just *wrong* bonding with parents that late in

life, no individuation, barely any separation. It's just wrong.

> > >

> > > Thanks for reading!

> > >

> > > Four-year-olds don't have autonomous selves, so it may not be that you

trauma-bonded with her, so much as you didn't have the maturity to maintain in

your own mind what you wanted and needed when what nada wanted was so intensely

expressed.

> > >

> > > I often remember feelings at the time of traumatic experiences that are

not mine at the level of my body--they are either the feeling the perpetrator

required me to have (because npds often demand that level of compliance) or the

feeling of the perpetrator. I didn't have the ability to clearly differentiate

myself from a powerful adult. I remember it in my body because that's how I

understood feelings at that age--not because they were my own feelings. I had

my own feelings as well. It's taken me a long time to make sense out of that.

> > >

> > > Having your mother want something at 4 can make it feel like you want that

same something, because you only have very flimsy personal boundaries and her

feelings and needs and desires can leak into you. I also suspect that our

boundaries dissolve a little under extreme stress even when we are adults and

mature. You may not have forgotten so much as the pressure was more intense.

> > >

> > > It may also have been too dangerous not to comply. Your goal wouldn't

have been to be a hero and stand up for yourself. It would have been to live.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Ashana

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, all of you. I agree, Fiona: having a parent who is truly too mentally

ill to be raising kids does real damage, to one degree or another and its just

wrong. Individual children have different inherent levels of resilience and

different circumstances to help them survive the abuse; some kids have more

resilience and more opportunities for escape or for protection, some less.

That's why I talk so much about educating the public, educating children in

particular, about recognizing and understanding the differences between

mentally healthy behaviors and mentally unhealthy, disordered behaviors, so that

even small children will have a chance to realize that, " Its not OK for my

mommy/daddy/other relative to do xyz to me. " And to help the child realize that

the child doesn't cause his or her parent to behave that way (neglect them,

scream at them, beat them, molest them, etc.) Children have no perspective on

these things, and if nobody tells the child that what's being done to him or her

is wrong, if the child isn't protected and/or rescued by the " sane " parent, or

by other concerned, compassionate adults, then the child comes to believe that

he or she *does* deserve the abuse because he or she is inherently bad,

worthless and unlovable.

So, thanks.

-Annie

>

> (((Annie))) I'm hugging 4 year old you (and you now). It makes me feel so sad

to read what you went through. I don't think there is a greater hurt than being

rejected by your own mother, esp so explicitly. I am so sorry.

>

> I related to how you said you were " unhealthily super-bonded/trauma-bonded

with nada (and dad) until my mid thirties. " That's me, too. Except for me it

lasted until 40, 41. That unhealthy, just *wrong* bonding with parents that

late in life, no individuation, barely any separation. It's just wrong.

[Guest guest]

It's a fascinating blog topic. I hope for you Ashana, one day, somehow you're

poor brain will be able to overcome the trauma. You're doing a bang up job of

understanding the science of it. Such benign everyday things (juice) have such a

dramatic effect on us damaged folks. This thread makes me so, so sad that the

abuses have damaged us so badly.

My trauma is related to loud noises. More specifically thumping against walls

and ceilings. In my household, as a child, there was a lot of physical violence

and screaming arguments. The result of such chaos was a lot of thumping on

walls/floors/etc. Unfortunately I live in apartment complexes mostly where

noises above, below and beside are common. Every bump and thump makes my heart

race and anxiety build.......... Intellectually I know nobody will charge

through the door and beat me up but my lizard brain tells me otherwise. *sigh*

working on it.

[Guest guest]

It was big when I realized that the intellect doesn't help. It's emotional and

instinctual, and I need to respond to it at that level. I need to calm myself

down like I would my cat, instead of trying to reason with myself.

I do feel rather hopeful about the whole thing.

Thanks for reading and the encouragement!

Ashana

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I think you know the abuse is wrong when someone else treats you with kindness

and real concern. I don't know with small kids if telling them that what is

being done to them is wrong really helps if no one does anything, because the

only coherent way of understanding being wronged on a regular bases is that you

are wrong. I'm not really disagreeing with you--just wondering.

But I do think actions are the loudest form of communication. Just love them.

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

I agree; my own personal take on it is that a child needs to be physically

rescued/removed from a parent who is moderately to severely affected by bpd and

is untreated.

Kids should not be in the care of anyone who is not able to feel empathy for

them, or even actively resents the child, perceiving the child as " all bad. " .

Children should not be subjected to an adult who is unable to regulate her

emotions, an adult who is easily triggered into irritability and responds with

inappropriate, extreme anger. Children shouldn't be in the care of someone who

is highly impulsive and given to self- and other-harming behaviors. Children

should not be subjected to the warped, unrealistic expectations of a

perfectionist; the child of the perfectionist is doomed to self-loathing by

being told that nothing they do or achieve is ever good enough. Children

shouldn't be in the care of someone who has an unstable, rudimentary sense of

her own self, making her unable to perceive where she leaves off and the child

starts (lack of a sense of personal boundaries and personal identity) and the

most dangerous trait, a child should not be left alone with someone who is

irrational and unable to tell the difference between reality and fantasy (bpd

transient breaks with reality: paranoia and delusional thinking).

Children should not be handed adult, parental levels of responsibility by their

parent, and made to feel guilty and anxiety-driven over managing their parent's

state of mind, their parent's marital troubles or financial troubles, etc.

In my opinion the diagnostic traits of borderline pd and the other Cluster B pds

are the *exact opposite* of the traits and behaviors a " good enough " parent has.

Even if the child has a sympathetic parent or relative or teacher who tells her

that she is a good person, a lovable person, it won't help the child much if the

child is subjected to daily mind-bending and soul-destroying emotional abuse or

neglect by her own parent(s). But even a little attention, validation and

affection are better than none, I guess.

The children of moderately to severely mentally ill, abusive/negligent parents

are basically screwed unless the child is removed and placed in the care of a

sane, compassionate, rational and loving caregiver, seems to me.

-Annie

>

> Annie,

>

> I think you know the abuse is wrong when someone else treats you with kindness

and real concern. I don't know with small kids if telling them that what is

being done to them is wrong really helps if no one does anything, because the

only coherent way of understanding being wronged on a regular bases is that you

are wrong. I'm not really disagreeing with you--just wondering.

>

> But I do think actions are the loudest form of communication. Just love them.

>

> Take care,

> Ashana

>