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--- Morse rm2h@...> wrote:

> Hello

>

> My name is . I had my surgery on July 25,

> 2000.

> I have lost 169 pounds and weigh 147 pounds. My

> doctors have said that I could lose another 7

> pounds.

>

> I am going to be having hernia surgery in July and

> maybe plastic surgery on my stomach.

>

> I am a patient of Dr LePort and I attend his support

> groups in Fountain Valley and Huntington Beach on

> Mondays and Thursdays. I find the support groups to

> be

> helpful at times.

>

>

>

> =====

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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  • 10 years later...

Hi. I am a new list member. I was wondering, is there anyone on the list

who, like me, is an older adult child who is now caring for their BPD

parent. (She also has narcissistic behaviors.) As to moving her into my

house....I know I know....What was I thinking....But I felt, and still

feel...what choice did I have? Let her live under a bridge? But now I am

finding that all of the rubbish from my childhood that I thought I had

dealt with, forgotten and buried, has all re-surfaced. And it

re-surfaced surprisingly quickly. Surprising to myself anyway, as I find

myself again living with the woman I couldn't wait to get away from when I

was a kid.

I feel like I am alone in finding how to make this work.

We have reached out to the medical world...to no avail. As a family, we

have tried getting her into therapy. She always stops going. We have even

tried involuntary commitment. But....she always knew more than the doctors,

and maintains there is nothing wrong with her.

The world in general sees her as a sweet, charming elderly lady, perhaps

with a little dementia. " People " still generally believe her tales. Her

expectations when she moved here were, things would be like when I was a

kid and I jumped anytime she said jump. I am an adult now, in fact, I am a

grandmother now, and that is not happening. I feel like I am having to find

my way with no direction. Just experimenting to find what works. At this

time, I have at least accomplished one thing. I have managed to set some

boundaries. I now feel physically safer and she no longer hits me. But

that's about all. Thankyou for listening.

Jess

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Hi , and welcome.

I don't have time to write the long reply this calls for, but I wanted to

drop a quick note in here -- there's a book I read recently that might have

some good advice and suggestions for you in it, as it's targeted directly

at adult children who have to care for their personality-disordered elderly

parents:

Coping With Your Difficult Older Parent : A Guide for Stressed-Out Children

Grace Lebow (Author), Barbara Kane (Author), Irwin Lebow (Contributor)

I was able to get a copy of this book from my local library without any

trouble and I found it an interesting (and kind of scary in some ways)

read, but it's all about people who are in your situation. As for me, I'm

living with my elderly BPD-ish mother ( " nada " , as we call them) but

fortunately she is not physically dependent on me so I'm planning on moving

back out in a couple of months, since I luckily still have that option!

Best wishes,

Jen H.

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Francis jessica89675@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi. I am a new list member. I was wondering, is there anyone on the list

> who, like me, is an older adult child who is now caring for their BPD

> parent. (She also has narcissistic behaviors.) As to moving her into my

> house....I know I know....What was I thinking....But I felt, and still

> feel...what choice did I have? Let her live under a bridge? But now I am

> finding that all of the rubbish from my childhood that I thought I had

> dealt with, forgotten and buried, has all re-surfaced. And it

> re-surfaced surprisingly quickly. Surprising to myself anyway, as I find

> myself again living with the woman I couldn't wait to get away from when I

> was a kid.

> I feel like I am alone in finding how to make this work.

>

> We have reached out to the medical world...to no avail. As a family, we

> have tried getting her into therapy. She always stops going. We have even

> tried involuntary commitment. But....she always knew more than the doctors,

> and maintains there is nothing wrong with her.

>

> The world in general sees her as a sweet, charming elderly lady, perhaps

> with a little dementia. " People " still generally believe her tales. Her

> expectations when she moved here were, things would be like when I was a

> kid and I jumped anytime she said jump. I am an adult now, in fact, I am a

> grandmother now, and that is not happening. I feel like I am having to find

> my way with no direction. Just experimenting to find what works. At this

> time, I have at least accomplished one thing. I have managed to set some

> boundaries. I now feel physically safer and she no longer hits me. But

> that's about all. Thankyou for listening.

>

> Jess

>

>

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You are not alone!! I love that we in this forum have this shared experience

that so few know, because as you said, my nada can be charming as can be! I

moved my nada (mother) to an assisted living near me after my dad died. I have

been helped so much by this group

, the practical tips, let alone the sense of belonging. I know you'll find a lot

of support here!

I now have the same emotional/functional/developmental expectations of my nada

that I do for a kid and that one shift by itself has lifted the guilt and the

biting sting of the rages. It's hard not to take it personally because frankly

it is personal but I hope you can find strength here, know you are an amazing

daughter and that you are worthy.

Welcome!

Francesca

Francesca

> Hi. I am a new list member. I was wondering, is there anyone on the list

> who, like me, is an older adult child who is now caring for their BPD

> parent. (She also has narcissistic behaviors.) As to moving her into my

> house....I know I know....What was I thinking....But I felt, and still

> feel...what choice did I have? Let her live under a bridge? But now I am

> finding that all of the rubbish from my childhood that I thought I had

> dealt with, forgotten and buried, has all re-surfaced. And it

> re-surfaced surprisingly quickly. Surprising to myself anyway, as I find

> myself again living with the woman I couldn't wait to get away from when I

> was a kid.

> I feel like I am alone in finding how to make this work.

>

> We have reached out to the medical world...to no avail. As a family, we

> have tried getting her into therapy. She always stops going. We have even

> tried involuntary commitment. But....she always knew more than the doctors,

> and maintains there is nothing wrong with her.

>

> The world in general sees her as a sweet, charming elderly lady, perhaps

> with a little dementia. " People " still generally believe her tales. Her

> expectations when she moved here were, things would be like when I was a

> kid and I jumped anytime she said jump. I am an adult now, in fact, I am a

> grandmother now, and that is not happening. I feel like I am having to find

> my way with no direction. Just experimenting to find what works. At this

> time, I have at least accomplished one thing. I have managed to set some

> boundaries. I now feel physically safer and she no longer hits me. But

> that's about all. Thankyou for listening.

>

> Jess

>

>

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My heart goes out to you! I am not there yet but fear my responsibilities

when my mother ages and needs care. . . hopefully you find a way to get

through it and keep healthy yourself. :-)

jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Francis

Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 6:56 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: New Member Introduction

Hi. I am a new list member. I was wondering, is there anyone on the list

who, like me, is an older adult child who is now caring for their BPD

parent. (She also has narcissistic behaviors.) As to moving her into my

house....I know I know....What was I thinking....But I felt, and still

feel...what choice did I have? Let her live under a bridge? But now I am

finding that all of the rubbish from my childhood that I thought I had

dealt with, forgotten and buried, has all re-surfaced. And it

re-surfaced surprisingly quickly. Surprising to myself anyway, as I find

myself again living with the woman I couldn't wait to get away from when I

was a kid.

I feel like I am alone in finding how to make this work.

We have reached out to the medical world...to no avail. As a family, we

have tried getting her into therapy. She always stops going. We have even

tried involuntary commitment. But....she always knew more than the doctors,

and maintains there is nothing wrong with her.

The world in general sees her as a sweet, charming elderly lady, perhaps

with a little dementia. " People " still generally believe her tales. Her

expectations when she moved here were, things would be like when I was a

kid and I jumped anytime she said jump. I am an adult now, in fact, I am a

grandmother now, and that is not happening. I feel like I am having to find

my way with no direction. Just experimenting to find what works. At this

time, I have at least accomplished one thing. I have managed to set some

boundaries. I now feel physically safer and she no longer hits me. But

that's about all. Thankyou for listening.

Jess

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Thanks . I found the book to be available thru my state's

interlibrary loan program, and I've ordered it.

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Hawthorne jenh789@...>wrote:

> Hi , and welcome.

>

> I don't have time to write the long reply this calls for, but I wanted to

> drop a quick note in here -- there's a book I read recently that might have

> some good advice and suggestions for you in it, as it's targeted directly

> at adult children who have to care for their personality-disordered elderly

> parents:

>

> Coping With Your Difficult Older Parent : A Guide for Stressed-Out Children

>

> Grace Lebow (Author), Barbara Kane (Author), Irwin Lebow (Contributor)

>

> I was able to get a copy of this book from my local library without any

> trouble and I found it an interesting (and kind of scary in some ways)

> read, but it's all about people who are in your situation. As for me, I'm

> living with my elderly BPD-ish mother ( " nada " , as we call them) but

> fortunately she is not physically dependent on me so I'm planning on moving

> back out in a couple of months, since I luckily still have that option!

>

> Best wishes,

> Jen H.

>

>

> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Francis jessica89675@...

> >wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hi. I am a new list member. I was wondering, is there anyone on the list

> > who, like me, is an older adult child who is now caring for their BPD

> > parent. (She also has narcissistic behaviors.) As to moving her into my

> > house....I know I know....What was I thinking....But I felt, and still

> > feel...what choice did I have? Let her live under a bridge? But now I am

> > finding that all of the rubbish from my childhood that I thought I had

> > dealt with, forgotten and buried, has all re-surfaced. And it

> > re-surfaced surprisingly quickly. Surprising to myself anyway, as I find

> > myself again living with the woman I couldn't wait to get away from when

> I

> > was a kid.

> > I feel like I am alone in finding how to make this work.

> >

> > We have reached out to the medical world...to no avail. As a family, we

> > have tried getting her into therapy. She always stops going. We have even

> > tried involuntary commitment. But....she always knew more than the

> doctors,

> > and maintains there is nothing wrong with her.

> >

> > The world in general sees her as a sweet, charming elderly lady, perhaps

> > with a little dementia. " People " still generally believe her tales. Her

> > expectations when she moved here were, things would be like when I was a

> > kid and I jumped anytime she said jump. I am an adult now, in fact, I am

> a

> > grandmother now, and that is not happening. I feel like I am having to

> find

> > my way with no direction. Just experimenting to find what works. At this

> > time, I have at least accomplished one thing. I have managed to set some

> > boundaries. I now feel physically safer and she no longer hits me. But

> > that's about all. Thankyou for listening.

> >

> > Jess

> >

> >

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Francesca. You bring up something else. How to get them to go to an

assisted living facility when they won't go. It boils down to...she doesn't

want to spend the money. My sister tried...to get her to go into a

facility....when Mom was living with her. And. On one rage occasion,

when my sister had to involve the police, the police took Mom to the

emergency room, which is our gateway in this State into immediate mental

health care. When mom calmed down and was released, my sister was told she

had to take Mom back since Mom had no other place to go. They told her she

couldn't just kick Mom out. Which is where I went over and brought Mom here

with me....not that I wanted to, but because my sister's needs were greater

than mine as she had a young child in the home to protect and I don't.

I guess I am asking a legal question.......

How to get mom re-homed when she won't go.

My own happiness aside, I really do think she'd be happier in a facility

than here with me.

She needs assisted living at this point.

I've been to my local police to discuss the matter, should it come to me

having to involve them for some future reason. They said...to get my ducks

in a row and have a place she can be taken to.

Fine.

But how do I get her to pay for it if she won't?

She'd present herself too well to any judge for me to take guardianship.

Thanks for listening.

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Francesca D. <

francescadjones@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

> You are not alone!! I love that we in this forum have this shared

> experience that so few know, because as you said, my nada can be charming

> as can be! I moved my nada (mother) to an assisted living near me after my

> dad died. I have been helped so much by this group

> , the practical tips, let alone the sense of belonging. I know you'll find

> a lot of support here!

> I now have the same emotional/functional/developmental expectations of my

> nada that I do for a kid and that one shift by itself has lifted the guilt

> and the biting sting of the rages. It's hard not to take it personally

> because frankly it is personal but I hope you can find strength here, know

> you are an amazing daughter and that you are worthy.

> Welcome!

> Francesca

>

> Francesca

>

>

> On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Francis jessica89675@...>

> wrote:

>

> > Hi. I am a new list member. I was wondering, is there anyone on the list

> > who, like me, is an older adult child who is now caring for their BPD

> > parent. (She also has narcissistic behaviors.) As to moving her into my

> > house....I know I know....What was I thinking....But I felt, and still

> > feel...what choice did I have? Let her live under a bridge? But now I am

> > finding that all of the rubbish from my childhood that I thought I had

> > dealt with, forgotten and buried, has all re-surfaced. And it

> > re-surfaced surprisingly quickly. Surprising to myself anyway, as I find

> > myself again living with the woman I couldn't wait to get away from when

> I

> > was a kid.

> > I feel like I am alone in finding how to make this work.

> >

> > We have reached out to the medical world...to no avail. As a family, we

> > have tried getting her into therapy. She always stops going. We have even

> > tried involuntary commitment. But....she always knew more than the

> doctors,

> > and maintains there is nothing wrong with her.

> >

> > The world in general sees her as a sweet, charming elderly lady, perhaps

> > with a little dementia. " People " still generally believe her tales. Her

> > expectations when she moved here were, things would be like when I was a

> > kid and I jumped anytime she said jump. I am an adult now, in fact, I am

> a

> > grandmother now, and that is not happening. I feel like I am having to

> find

> > my way with no direction. Just experimenting to find what works. At this

> > time, I have at least accomplished one thing. I have managed to set some

> > boundaries. I now feel physically safer and she no longer hits me. But

> > that's about all. Thankyou for listening.

> >

> > Jess

> >

> >

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-

The legal issues around elderly parents are tricky and complicated and can

vary state by state. You may want to at some point consult a lawyer to find

out what your actual legal responsibilities toward your mother are. Don't

go with what the emergency services people tell you -- their goal is to get

the person out of their hands as soon as possible.

A few things I learned in my state (Michigan): If a person lives with you

for a period of time (30 days in MI I believe) they get legal residency

status in your home, and become de facto tenants with tenants' right, even

if they don't pay rent. So if you let your Mom live with you and you want

her to leave and she won't do so, you might have to take court action (that

is, a legal eviction) to actually get her out, and it will take at least 30

days and probably longer. In short, if she doesn't have residency with you

already, I would suggest not letting her get it. Don't just let her " move

in for a few months " -- you'll have a terrible time moving her out against

her will.

Now, as for guardianship issues. I investigated this a little for my Nada

to see if I could compel her to get help for her emotional issues. I called

the local Area Agency on Aging, and I think these exist in most places, so

you might want to check in your area for one. I explained the situation to

the woman there -- living with elderly nada, Nada won't stop being abusive,

I'm going to have to leave if she won't cut it out, is there anything I can

do? The answer came down to " No, all you can do is leave. " The lady at

the Area Agency on Aging said " Your mother is making bad choices, but she's

an adult and she's allowed to do that, so the only thing you can do is just

leave if she won't stop her bad behavior. " Now, in my (fortunate) case my

mother isn't actually dependent upon me for anything (yet) although she

seems to want me to stick around so she can use me as an emotional toxic

waste dumping ground. This means I'm free to leave. If I were her actual

legal caretaker, my options would be more limited -- but I might have more

power to place legal limits on her behavior too, via guardianship or

something. So if your mother is NOT genuinely dependent on you -- that is,

she is capable of independent living -- you should seek legal recourse to

get her out on her own where she belongs. If she actually is dependent on

you, you need to be more careful but there are probably also some more

resources in your area you can tap, such as Respite Care to give yourself a

break from her.

So the first question is, is your mother actually capable of independent

living? If she is capable of it, and is only living with you for

convenience, you can take the (drastic but possibly necessary) step of

legally evicting her. If you can't evict her due to some sort of dependent

status she has, then you probably have other rights and should investigate

them.

Now, of course, evicting your elderly mother is going to get you a lot of

social disapproval from various quarters, but if it's what you have to do

to safeguard your own health, it's an option. It's kind of a nuclear

option, but it does exist. I would start with a call to the local Area

Agency on Aging, as they are free and very familiar with these issues.

After you talk to them, depending on what they tell you and what the

details of your situation with your Mom are, you might want to consult a

lawyer to determine your next step.

Good luck!

Jen H.

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Francis jessica89675@...>wrote:

> Francesca. You bring up something else. How to get them to go to an

> assisted living facility when they won't go. It boils down to...she doesn't

> want to spend the money. My sister tried...to get her to go into a

> facility....when Mom was living with her. And. On one rage occasion,

> when my sister had to involve the police, the police took Mom to the

> emergency room, which is our gateway in this State into immediate mental

> health care. When mom calmed down and was released, my sister was told she

> had to take Mom back since Mom had no other place to go. They told her she

> couldn't just kick Mom out. Which is where I went over and brought Mom here

> with me....not that I wanted to, but because my sister's needs were greater

> than mine as she had a young child in the home to protect and I don't.

>

> I guess I am asking a legal question.......

> How to get mom re-homed when she won't go.

> My own happiness aside, I really do think she'd be happier in a facility

> than here with me.

> She needs assisted living at this point.

>

> I've been to my local police to discuss the matter, should it come to me

> having to involve them for some future reason. They said...to get my ducks

> in a row and have a place she can be taken to.

> Fine.

> But how do I get her to pay for it if she won't?

> She'd present herself too well to any judge for me to take guardianship.

>

> Thanks for listening.

>

>

>

>

>

> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Francesca D. <

> francescadjones@...> wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > You are not alone!! I love that we in this forum have this shared

> > experience that so few know, because as you said, my nada can be charming

> > as can be! I moved my nada (mother) to an assisted living near me after

> my

> > dad died. I have been helped so much by this group

> > , the practical tips, let alone the sense of belonging. I know you'll

> find

> > a lot of support here!

> > I now have the same emotional/functional/developmental expectations of my

> > nada that I do for a kid and that one shift by itself has lifted the

> guilt

> > and the biting sting of the rages. It's hard not to take it personally

> > because frankly it is personal but I hope you can find strength here,

> know

> > you are an amazing daughter and that you are worthy.

> > Welcome!

> > Francesca

> >

> > Francesca

> >

> >

> > On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Francis jessica89675@...>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Hi. I am a new list member. I was wondering, is there anyone on the

> list

> > > who, like me, is an older adult child who is now caring for their BPD

> > > parent. (She also has narcissistic behaviors.) As to moving her into my

> > > house....I know I know....What was I thinking....But I felt, and still

> > > feel...what choice did I have? Let her live under a bridge? But now I

> am

> > > finding that all of the rubbish from my childhood that I thought I had

> > > dealt with, forgotten and buried, has all re-surfaced. And it

> > > re-surfaced surprisingly quickly. Surprising to myself anyway, as I

> find

> > > myself again living with the woman I couldn't wait to get away from

> when

> > I

> > > was a kid.

> > > I feel like I am alone in finding how to make this work.

> > >

> > > We have reached out to the medical world...to no avail. As a family, we

> > > have tried getting her into therapy. She always stops going. We have

> even

> > > tried involuntary commitment. But....she always knew more than the

> > doctors,

> > > and maintains there is nothing wrong with her.

> > >

> > > The world in general sees her as a sweet, charming elderly lady,

> perhaps

> > > with a little dementia. " People " still generally believe her tales. Her

> > > expectations when she moved here were, things would be like when I was

> a

> > > kid and I jumped anytime she said jump. I am an adult now, in fact, I

> am

> > a

> > > grandmother now, and that is not happening. I feel like I am having to

> > find

> > > my way with no direction. Just experimenting to find what works. At

> this

> > > time, I have at least accomplished one thing. I have managed to set

> some

> > > boundaries. I now feel physically safer and she no longer hits me. But

> > > that's about all. Thankyou for listening.

> > >

> > > Jess

> > >

> > >

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You really can't force an adult to do things like take her meds or check herself

into a retirement home or nursing home, etc., as long as he or she is considered

sane and mentally competent to make decisions for herself.

Its true, you may be up against elder-protective laws in your state once you

take your elderly parent into your home, preventing you from just making her

leave. If you've been her caregiver and if she's been living in your home, then

in some states ousting her would be considered " abandonment " in a legal sense.

You could make yourself liable for a lawsuit if you boot her out, potentially.

I agree that its in your best interest to consult with a lawyer who is familiar

with the elder care laws in your state about the options that are or are not

available to you and your mother RE her care needs.

In my own nada's case, nada wanted to live in town to be near her friends and

her church, so she chose to sell her house after dad died and move into an

apartment in town. Sister worked in that town but lived about 45 minutes away

in a rural area.

It took our mother ( " nada " ) receiving an official diagnosis of senile dementia

before my Sister was able to obtain legal guardianship of our nada, and make

care arrangements for her. Fortunately, nada had been agreeable to a few

weekend excursions with Sister to look at various residential care facilities in

their area, and there were three of them that nada liked (well, didn't hate.)

So when the time came, Sister chose one of them and relocated our nada into it.

It took about 9 months from the time nada began showing signs of dementia,

before it progressed to a point that nada was considered a danger to herself and

to others and needed supervision 24/7, but the onset and progress of dementia

varies with each person.

-Annie

> >

> > > Hi. I am a new list member. I was wondering, is there anyone on the list

> > > who, like me, is an older adult child who is now caring for their BPD

> > > parent. (She also has narcissistic behaviors.) As to moving her into my

> > > house....I know I know....What was I thinking....But I felt, and still

> > > feel...what choice did I have? Let her live under a bridge? But now I am

> > > finding that all of the rubbish from my childhood that I thought I had

> > > dealt with, forgotten and buried, has all re-surfaced. And it

> > > re-surfaced surprisingly quickly. Surprising to myself anyway, as I find

> > > myself again living with the woman I couldn't wait to get away from when

> > I

> > > was a kid.

> > > I feel like I am alone in finding how to make this work.

> > >

> > > We have reached out to the medical world...to no avail. As a family, we

> > > have tried getting her into therapy. She always stops going. We have even

> > > tried involuntary commitment. But....she always knew more than the

> > doctors,

> > > and maintains there is nothing wrong with her.

> > >

> > > The world in general sees her as a sweet, charming elderly lady, perhaps

> > > with a little dementia. " People " still generally believe her tales. Her

> > > expectations when she moved here were, things would be like when I was a

> > > kid and I jumped anytime she said jump. I am an adult now, in fact, I am

> > a

> > > grandmother now, and that is not happening. I feel like I am having to

> > find

> > > my way with no direction. Just experimenting to find what works. At this

> > > time, I have at least accomplished one thing. I have managed to set some

> > > boundaries. I now feel physically safer and she no longer hits me. But

> > > that's about all. Thankyou for listening.

> > >

> > > Jess

> > >

> > >

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That's actually good to know about the thirty day thing...I am in the same state

as you are. I have been NC for almost 5 years, but am terrified that she will

show up someday, demanding to stay and trying to say I have no choice legally.

Ninera

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

----- Reply message -----

Date: Wed, Sep 12, 2012 9:16 am

Subject: New Member Introduction

To: WTOAdultChildren1 >

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If you find out what your actual legal rights are and what your legal

liabilities may be in your state (by consulting with a lawyer who is experienced

with elder care laws) then your nada can't blindside you later, can't catch you

off guard. Knowledge is power, and its empowering. You have the right to

protect yourself from exploitation.

-Annie

>

> That's actually good to know about the thirty day thing...I am in the same

state as you are. I have been NC for almost 5 years, but am terrified that she

will show up someday, demanding to stay and trying to say I have no choice

legally.

>

> Ninera

>

> Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

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