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Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have been

reading self-help books.

And I have a comment.

Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

I am here to say...

My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most

wonderful people in my young life.

My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and was

for me, an oasis of sanity.

My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not abusive.

And further.

My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

I was born in their house.

(Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact that

there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able to go

to school.

Just the three of us.

My grandparents and myself.

And they were both just normal people.

Normal parents.

I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their

child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

My grandparents did not make her that way.

That is off my chest now.

Thankyou for reading.

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,

Welcome to the group.

My opinion is that there are two factors in BPD - genetics and

enperience. (There may be other contributing factors as well.)

Any given individual may have simply had bad luck in their

genetic makeup or bad luck in their experiences growing up or a

combination of the two. I do feel that it is likely that they

all felt invalidated growing up. Feeling invalidated doesn't

necessarily mean their parents or other adults in their lives

did anything wrong. It can just mean that tendency towards BPD

was affecting them early on, causing normal interactions to feel

invalidating. I think some literature on the subject suffers

from having confused reports given by people with BPD with

reality. The fact that people report being abused doesn't mean

they actually were abused. People with BPD have their own

reality and their lies sound convincing because they believe

them.

At 08:14 AM 09/15/2012 jessica89675 wrote:

>Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this

>list, I have been reading self-help books.

>And I have a comment.

>Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline

>Mother...

>say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

>That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

>

>I am here to say...

>My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal,

>the most wonderful people in my young life.

>My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing

>person, and was for me, an oasis of sanity.

>My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

>My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man.

>Absolutely not abusive.

>

>And further.

>My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

>I was born in their house.

>(Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

>And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to

>the fact that there were no schools were my parents were at the

>time.

>So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order

>to be able to go to school.

>Just the three of us.

>My grandparents and myself.

>And they were both just normal people.

>Normal parents.

>

>I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible

>for their child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the

>thought.

>My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that

>way.

>My grandparents did not make her that way.

>

>That is off my chest now.

>Thankyou for reading.

>

>

>

--

Katrina

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Hi ,

I think that UTBM was published in 2002, but there has been continuing research

into the nature of bpd and causes of bpd since it was written. Currently, the

National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) states that borderline pd (and some

other mental illnesses as well) are caused by a *combination* of genetically

predisposing (temperament) factors plus an invalidating environment. (google

" the nine temperament factors by and Chess " for the list of inborn

temperament traits that are observable even in infants. Fascinating stuff!)

Theories about how or why bpd and other mental disorders happen are not fixed in

stone, they evolve as most scientific theories do based on new information that

becomes available from new research studies, using new methods or tools of study

(like 3-D real-time computerized MRI brain scanning, more powerful microscopes,

more understanding /mapping of the human genome, more understanding of brain

structure and function RE neurobiology, etc).

So, in theory genetic predisposition PLUS invalidating environment

means that:

some people were badly abused or neglected in childhood and develop bpd

some people were badly abused or neglected in childhood and do NOT develop bpd

some people had just an average, non-abusive childhood and develop bpd

some people had just an average, non-abusive childhood and do NOT develop bpd.

The only thing that all the researchers seem to agree on is that we don't have

all the puzzle pieces yet. It will probably take decades more research and study

to gain more complete knowledge about why and how mental illnesses happen.

However, like in your own situation, my mother's parents were just nice, normal,

average, sweet, kind, rational people. My mother's sisters are both just...

normal. They married nice guys. Their kids/my cousins are normal and married

nice spouses; THEIR kids are doing fine. My own mother was the only adult I

ever saw on either side of my family who would trigger into red-faced, screaming

rages at us, who was so chronically frustrated, unhappy and difficult to please,

who was violent when enraged, and had a kind of " Jekyll and Hyde " type of

character: super sweet or super scary. (Neither my younger Sister nor I have

ever had a long-term adult relationship; we were both negatively impacted in

that way, although we are both successful at our careers.)

So, the current NIMH hypothesis seems logical or at least plausible to me.

-Annie

>

> Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have

been reading self-help books.

> And I have a comment.

> Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

> say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

> That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

>

> I am here to say...

> My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most

wonderful people in my young life.

> My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and was

for me, an oasis of sanity.

> My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

> My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not

abusive.

>

> And further.

> My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

> I was born in their house.

> (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

> And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact that

there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

> So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able to

go to school.

> Just the three of us.

> My grandparents and myself.

> And they were both just normal people.

> Normal parents.

>

> I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their

child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

> My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

> My grandparents did not make her that way.

>

> That is off my chest now.

> Thankyou for reading.

>

>

>

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--

Our understanding of BPD and the roots of the problem is always expanding.

When it comes to mental illness and personality/character disorders, there

is generally no single factor -- it's a mix of nature and nurture, and

sometimes an overwhelming influence in one of these arenas can swamp out

all the good coming from the other. It's entirely possible that your

grandparents had very little to do with your mother's developing her

disorder. As far as I can tell, my mother's upbringing was perfectly fine

as well.

Think of it this way. Everyone is born with a certain set of temperamental

characteristics -- prone to be fussy, prone to be calm, prone to be easily

scared, prone to be good-natured, prone to be irritable. How those inborn

tendencies emerge into adult personalities is heavily influenced by the

environment they are raised in, but depending on what the inborn tendencies

are and how strong they are, the effects of the environment may be large,

small, or non-existent.

Current thinking, I believe, is that people can be " born " BPD (with a

massively overdeveloped emotional sensitivity and an undeveloped impulse

control ability), or they can be " made " BPD (have their basically normal

temperament overwritten and messed up by abuse.) So it's entirely possible

that your mother's problems had nothing to do with her upbringing. There

are also some kids out there -- the " resilient " children -- who can suffer

horrible abuse throughout their childhoods and come out basically okay,

somehow, mostly due to inborn personality factors that offer protection.

It used to be that both autism and schizophrenia were blamed on bad

mothering. We now know that that has nothing to do with it, although lousy

parenting can make both of these problems more serious and debilitating, of

course, just as exceptional parenting can SOMETIMES -- not always --

ameliorate the damage coming from the biological wiring difficulties that

were inborn. (As a side note, there is some fascinating research out there

indicating that schizophrenia might be, in part, an infectious disease,

which some people have a sensitivity to and most people don't -- check out

the Toxoplasmosis theory of schizophrenia if you're curious.)

Chances are that personality disorders are more similar to high blood

pressure or high blood sugar in terms of their heritability -- some people

can eat fatty foods every day, all day, and never get heart disease,

whereas some other people are born with cholesterol-metabolism issues that

mean they'll die of heart disease by age twenty no matter what they eat.

(Familial hypercholesterolemia.)

If your baby is born with Tay-Sachs disease, he is going to sicken and die

by age two no matter how amazing, wonderful, and caring a parent you are.

It's a bitter truth, but it's real. Your mother may simply have been born

with neurological wiring that made it impossible for her to be a good

mother, despite her having been raised well with excellent parental

modeling.

It's okay to absolve your grandparents - no one around here is going to

insist on blaming your mother's problems on them. Your mother's problems

are her own. Even if they HAD been caused by abuse, it would still have

been her responsibility to work to handle her own problems, no matter

their source. An abusive background warrants compassion and assistance for

struggling people -- NOT absolution for bad behavior.

I hope that helps you feel better about your grandparents. I'm glad they

were there for you. My maternal grandfather died before I was born, but

from what I saw of my mother's behavior around my maternal grandmother, she

treated her own mother with the same raging behavior that she has always

treated me and my brother, and for as little reason. I remember how

confused and frightened my maternal grandmother always seemed during these

fits, and how she would plead with my mother to calm down, and how little

good it did. I don't know whether or not my maternal grandparents were

perfect parents or not -- hardly anyone is a perfect parent -- but there

has never been any evidence that they abused my mother, and my maternal

uncle is a gentle and quiet-tempered man with three adoring kids and

numerous grandkids. My mother was also raised in a condition of affluence,

with the best schooling and neighborhoods when she was growing up, so it's

unlikely that she picked up her behaviors from her non-family environment

either. In short, I also find it hard to believe that her behavior is

caused by the kind of abuse cited in " Borderline Mother. "

While I would dearly, DEARLY love an explanation for why my mother is so

full of rage at the world, I don't have one, and at this point it may never

come. It would in some ways be deeply reassuring to be able to go " Oh, she

was locked in a closet, fed roaches, and let out once a month on every

third Sunday, and that's why she is the way she is " -- but it's clearly not

true. Whatever " explanation " there is just isn't going to be that

straightforward.

It's important to keep in mind when reading self-help books, even those

written by licensed psychologists, that authors are as prone as the rest of

us to go for the easy answer. " She's raging at the world because she was

treated badly as a child! " is an easy answer -- and often wrong. It used

to be believed that all adult domestic abusers were abused as kids -- turns

out that's not even remotely true. The best numbers currently are that

about 30% of abusers have an abusive background, but MOST people who are

abused have no desire to perpetuate that kind of thing. So the 70% of

abusers who were raised well are getting their problems from some other

source. What exactly that source is, is a subject of a lot of interest,

but we don't have any real data on it yet.

I'll wrap up this typically rambling post with this slightly paraphrased

quote:

" For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and

straightforward. It's also wrong. " H. L. Mencken

Personality disorders are complex problems. Therefore, ANY simple and

clear answer for them should be regarded with deep suspicion.

Best,

Jen H.

On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:14 AM, jessica89675 jessica89675@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have

> been reading self-help books.

> And I have a comment.

> Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

> say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

> That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

>

> I am here to say...

> My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most

> wonderful people in my young life.

> My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and

> was for me, an oasis of sanity.

> My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

> My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not

> abusive.

>

> And further.

> My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

> I was born in their house.

> (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

> And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact

> that there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

> So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able

> to go to school.

> Just the three of us.

> My grandparents and myself.

> And they were both just normal people.

> Normal parents.

>

> I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their

> child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

> My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

> My grandparents did not make her that way.

>

> That is off my chest now.

> Thankyou for reading.

>

>

>

>

>

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Hi ,

I have read the same thing several times. Or rather, that an abusive early

childhood MAY contribute to the development of BPD. I don't doubt that if

someone has the genetic propensity to develop BPD, an abusive household would

add to it, but I agree 100% with you; my Nada is BPD and always will be mostly

because that is the way her brain functions.

My Grandmother I remember little bits of, and I think Nada may be right in

blaming her to some extent for her unhealthy development. My Grandfather, on

the other hand, is the most wonderful, caring, loving and beautiful person in

the world, and no amount of perfection from him would have prevented my mom's

disability.

My Nada spent YEARS blaming, raging, writing cruel letters, sucking money out of

my wonderful grandfather because everything wrong with her was " his fault "

somehow.

The most ironic of all: all of her accusations about the " terrible " things that

he did to her, if true, would have been significantly less damaging than any one

of the things she did to me growing up.

I recently went through an exercise in the book " Surviving the Borderline

Parent " (which I highly recommend) in which I asked my grandfather several

questions about my Nada growing up. It was very interesting and informative,

but also very difficult to see him in so much pain. I let him know that I

thought he must have been a wonderful father, and no matter what Nada says, I

know what a great person he is. I'm glad I got the chance to do it while he is

still with us.

I wanted to comment on this, because I also take exception to that common

explanation. Welcome to the group!

- Jets :)

>

> Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have

been reading self-help books.

> And I have a comment.

> Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

> say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

> That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

>

> I am here to say...

> My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most

wonderful people in my young life.

> My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and was

for me, an oasis of sanity.

> My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

> My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not

abusive.

>

> And further.

> My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

> I was born in their house.

> (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

> And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact that

there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

> So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able to

go to school.

> Just the three of us.

> My grandparents and myself.

> And they were both just normal people.

> Normal parents.

>

> I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their

child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

> My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

> My grandparents did not make her that way.

>

> That is off my chest now.

> Thankyou for reading.

>

>

>

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, that's really interesting. You wonder how someone's personality can be

so different, so dysfunctional, despite being raised by loving parents?

Maybe your mother is just wired that way?

Is it possible your grandparents weren't always as loving with your mother as

they were with you? My father was very, VERY different with my kids than he was

with us. He was an entirely different person.

I'm not sure it's possible to put the finger on one thing when it comes to

personality disorders.

>

> Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have

been reading self-help books.

> And I have a comment.

> Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

> say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

> That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

>

> I am here to say...

> My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most

wonderful people in my young life.

> My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and was

for me, an oasis of sanity.

> My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

> My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not

abusive.

>

> And further.

> My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

> I was born in their house.

> (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

> And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact that

there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

> So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able to

go to school.

> Just the three of us.

> My grandparents and myself.

> And they were both just normal people.

> Normal parents.

>

> I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their

child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

> My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

> My grandparents did not make her that way.

>

> That is off my chest now.

> Thankyou for reading.

>

>

>

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I agree that bpd can develop independent of any abuse or neglect, that some

people are wired differently.

But I know that my nada and fada behave completely differently with my

children, appear loving and nurturing. I've never hugged by my nada, but she

hugged my kids often, especially when they were young. They seem to accept

the unique personalities and differences in my kids and could not do that

with me and my brothers.

In fact this dual behaviour is what kept me trying so long, figuring that

maybe my parents were just stressed at the time they had kids, tough job,

they were young..also that somehow I could mend the parent relationship

through my kids, finally create a happy loving family that I didn't have,

with grandparents, cousins, uncles. But her old behaviours have crept back,

now I'm realizing they were there all along, insidious controlling

manipulations.

The response from Fiona about her fada doing everything and fixing

everything rings so true. My father still picked out my car at age 35, and

fixes everything, so much so that when I went NC a few months ago I actually

have had panic attacks if something needs to be dealt with. Somewhere in my

brain I have a deep rooted fear of not being able to take care of myself.

That I'll fail and need to come crawling back to them. Even though I am

perfectly capable, and so is my husband. And if we can't do it, well we can

hire someone who does know how. Seems simple enough, the rest of the world

does it, but these panic attacks are weird!

Thanks for the support, this group has been a godsend for me getting through

these last few months.

NG

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Fiona

Sent: September-17-12 8:31 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: My NADA's parents

, that's really interesting. You wonder how someone's personality can

be so different, so dysfunctional, despite being raised by loving parents?

Maybe your mother is just wired that way?

Is it possible your grandparents weren't always as loving with your mother

as they were with you? My father was very, VERY different with my kids than

he was with us. He was an entirely different person.

I'm not sure it's possible to put the finger on one thing when it comes to

personality disorders.

>

> Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have

been reading self-help books.

> And I have a comment.

> Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

> say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

> That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

>

> I am here to say...

> My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most

wonderful people in my young life.

> My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and

was for me, an oasis of sanity.

> My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

> My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not

abusive.

>

> And further.

> My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

> I was born in their house.

> (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

> And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact

that there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

> So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able

to go to school.

> Just the three of us.

> My grandparents and myself.

> And they were both just normal people.

> Normal parents.

>

> I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their

child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

> My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

> My grandparents did not make her that way.

>

> That is off my chest now.

> Thankyou for reading.

>

>

>

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Odd, I hadn't thought about that for a while, but your post made me recall that

when my nephew was a toddler, preschooler, and young child my nada was like a

different person with him than the way she had been with Sister and me. And at

the time, I speculated that perhaps it was because he was a boy. Perhaps

because Sister and I are girls, there was no boundary for nada: her daughters

WERE her and she was US so that nada's own self-loathing and need for perfection

was projected onto us. But nada adored men, or at least seemed to. Her best

and most charming self would appear when there was a party that included male

neighbors or acquaintances.

But just as you mentioned, her " default " setting began to appear as my nephew

grew into a teenager; she became demanding and critical of him, and even cruel,

sort of the way she treated dad. Sister had to be the mother bear, rearing up

and roaring, to make nada back off. Wow, just thinking about all that drama

and angst gives me the ghost of a headache, even now. Jeez, Louise.

-Annie

> >

> > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have

> been reading self-help books.

> > And I have a comment.

> > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

> > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

> > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

> >

> > I am here to say...

> > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most

> wonderful people in my young life.

> > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and

> was for me, an oasis of sanity.

> > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

> > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not

> abusive.

> >

> > And further.

> > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

> > I was born in their house.

> > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

> > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact

> that there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

> > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able

> to go to school.

> > Just the three of us.

> > My grandparents and myself.

> > And they were both just normal people.

> > Normal parents.

> >

> > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their

> child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

> > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

> > My grandparents did not make her that way.

> >

> > That is off my chest now.

> > Thankyou for reading.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

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On the www.bpdfamily.com http://www.bpdfamily.com/> thread for BPD parents

there was some great discussion about how nada's tend to turn on the

grandkids when they hit teenage years. My oldest DS is 12 and all the

comments about how they freak out on the older kids is one of the big

reasons I set so tight of boundaries (that I've not had to practice yet

:-(). It would seem that the younger kids give them the narcissistic love

and satisfaction they need and don't question anything they say but obey

blindly. I have seen my nada get vicious when they don't do what she tells

them to even at the younger ages, but they are so resilient and loving they

don't hold it against her. As they age they start to remember the anger and

respond negatively toward it which seems to push the nadas into the

rejection mode that sparks their fits. My oldest DS is so compliant and

hates conflict so he hasn't seemed to spark my nadas rage yet but the time

is coming because he is starting to show a lot more emotion and independence

with me (which is good and healthy!). However, what does it do to them to

see their grandma, whom they've adored for so long, turn on them like

pit-bull? What we experienced was different because we lived with her and

saw the split personality from the get-go but these poor grandkids have been

sheltered in hopefully healthy home lives. I would think they will be

devastated . . .

Annie - how did your nephew handle it? Did he say #@%& off and get on with

it, or was he really crushed by her cruelty toward him? I'm sure all kids

would handle it differently but I'm choosing to go mother bear on nada now

before she can mess with my kids. :-(

jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of anuria67854

Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:20 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: My NADA's parents

Odd, I hadn't thought about that for a while, but your post made me recall

that when my nephew was a toddler, preschooler, and young child my nada was

like a different person with him than the way she had been with Sister and

me. And at the time, I speculated that perhaps it was because he was a boy.

Perhaps because Sister and I are girls, there was no boundary for nada: her

daughters WERE her and she was US so that nada's own self-loathing and need

for perfection was projected onto us. But nada adored men, or at least

seemed to. Her best and most charming self would appear when there was a

party that included male neighbors or acquaintances.

But just as you mentioned, her " default " setting began to appear as my

nephew grew into a teenager; she became demanding and critical of him, and

even cruel, sort of the way she treated dad. Sister had to be the mother

bear, rearing up and roaring, to make nada back off. Wow, just thinking

about all that drama and angst gives me the ghost of a headache, even now.

Jeez, Louise.

-Annie

> >

> > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I

have

> been reading self-help books.

> > And I have a comment.

> > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

> > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

> > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

> >

> > I am here to say...

> > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most

> wonderful people in my young life.

> > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person,

and

> was for me, an oasis of sanity.

> > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

> > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not

> abusive.

> >

> > And further.

> > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

> > I was born in their house.

> > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

> > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact

> that there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

> > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be

able

> to go to school.

> > Just the three of us.

> > My grandparents and myself.

> > And they were both just normal people.

> > Normal parents.

> >

> > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for

their

> child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

> > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

> > My grandparents did not make her that way.

> >

> > That is off my chest now.

> > Thankyou for reading.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

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My nephew has a sweet and gentle personality, so he didn't confront his

grandnada, he just left the room when she'd say something critical or demanding

to him. Sister is the one who fought back and told our nada to back off.

-Annie

>

> On the www.bpdfamily.com http://www.bpdfamily.com/> thread for BPD parents

> there was some great discussion about how nada's tend to turn on the

> grandkids when they hit teenage years. My oldest DS is 12 and all the

> comments about how they freak out on the older kids is one of the big

> reasons I set so tight of boundaries (that I've not had to practice yet

> :-(). It would seem that the younger kids give them the narcissistic love

> and satisfaction they need and don't question anything they say but obey

> blindly. I have seen my nada get vicious when they don't do what she tells

> them to even at the younger ages, but they are so resilient and loving they

> don't hold it against her. As they age they start to remember the anger and

> respond negatively toward it which seems to push the nadas into the

> rejection mode that sparks their fits. My oldest DS is so compliant and

> hates conflict so he hasn't seemed to spark my nadas rage yet but the time

> is coming because he is starting to show a lot more emotion and independence

> with me (which is good and healthy!). However, what does it do to them to

> see their grandma, whom they've adored for so long, turn on them like

> pit-bull? What we experienced was different because we lived with her and

> saw the split personality from the get-go but these poor grandkids have been

> sheltered in hopefully healthy home lives. I would think they will be

> devastated . . .

>

>

>

> Annie - how did your nephew handle it? Did he say #@%& off and get on with

> it, or was he really crushed by her cruelty toward him? I'm sure all kids

> would handle it differently but I'm choosing to go mother bear on nada now

> before she can mess with my kids. :-(

>

>

>

>

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Hi Annie,

Interetsing; my Nada also highly favours men (at least until they " let her

down " . I have seen her experience such a dramatic change between dealing with

the women in our family to the men that her voice actually changes, she becomes

almost infantile. In particular, her brothers are absolute angels in her eyes.

She has always loved her brothers (or at least been much better at expressing

love towards them) much more than me. I wonder if the boundary created by

gender has anything to do with the Nada being more able to view the person as an

individual...

Just thought I would piggy-back on that :)

- Jets

> > >

> > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have

> > been reading self-help books.

> > > And I have a comment.

> > > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> > > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

> > > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

> > > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

> > >

> > > I am here to say...

> > > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most

> > wonderful people in my young life.

> > > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and

> > was for me, an oasis of sanity.

> > > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

> > > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not

> > abusive.

> > >

> > > And further.

> > > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

> > > I was born in their house.

> > > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

> > > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact

> > that there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

> > > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able

> > to go to school.

> > > Just the three of us.

> > > My grandparents and myself.

> > > And they were both just normal people.

> > > Normal parents.

> > >

> > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their

> > child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

> > > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

> > > My grandparents did not make her that way.

> > >

> > > That is off my chest now.

> > > Thankyou for reading.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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It occurred to me today that part of the problem of " minorities " is that

they internalize the hatred thrown at them. For example, woman are taught

that what they do is not as significant as what men do. My BPD mother

taught me women are second to men. If a person has internalized the

" badness " of that group rather than hating themselves they'll just hate

others of that group.

Also they'll suck up to powerful men to get their protection. Just

internalized ideas that BPDs picked up because they can't think for

themselves.

I had an aunt who was kind to me as a child. Recently I told her I had a

rough time with my parents. She explained it away by saying my mother

REALLY really wanted a boy and that's what made things so rough for us! I

don't know how to even deal with that.

I feel my aunt was trying to explain it away or justify but it felt so

wrong. I couldn't see how someone who would say that could be " safe " .

Needless to say my mother was like your mothers.

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:39 PM, jetshockeylove

jetshockeylove@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi Annie,

>

> Interetsing; my Nada also highly favours men (at least until they " let her

> down " . I have seen her experience such a dramatic change between dealing

> with the women in our family to the men that her voice actually changes,

> she becomes almost infantile. In particular, her brothers are absolute

> angels in her eyes. She has always loved her brothers (or at least been

> much better at expressing love towards them) much more than me. I wonder if

> the boundary created by gender has anything to do with the Nada being more

> able to view the person as an individual...

>

> Just thought I would piggy-back on that :)

>

> - Jets

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list,

> I have

> > > been reading self-help books.

> > > > And I have a comment.

> > > > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of

> > > > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother...

> > > > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences.

> > > > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents.

> > > >

> > > > I am here to say...

> > > > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the

> most

> > > wonderful people in my young life.

> > > > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing

> person, and

> > > was for me, an oasis of sanity.

> > > > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had.

> > > > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely

> not

> > > abusive.

> > > >

> > > > And further.

> > > > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go.

> > > > I was born in their house.

> > > > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.)

> > > > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the

> fact

> > > that there were no schools were my parents were at the time.

> > > > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to

> be able

> > > to go to school.

> > > > Just the three of us.

> > > > My grandparents and myself.

> > > > And they were both just normal people.

> > > > Normal parents.

> > > >

> > > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for

> their

> > > child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought.

> > > > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way.

> > > > My grandparents did not make her that way.

> > > >

> > > > That is off my chest now.

> > > > Thankyou for reading.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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