Guest guest Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have been reading self-help books. And I have a comment. Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. I am here to say... My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most wonderful people in my young life. My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and was for me, an oasis of sanity. My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not abusive. And further. My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. I was born in their house. (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able to go to school. Just the three of us. My grandparents and myself. And they were both just normal people. Normal parents. I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. My grandparents did not make her that way. That is off my chest now. Thankyou for reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 , Welcome to the group. My opinion is that there are two factors in BPD - genetics and enperience. (There may be other contributing factors as well.) Any given individual may have simply had bad luck in their genetic makeup or bad luck in their experiences growing up or a combination of the two. I do feel that it is likely that they all felt invalidated growing up. Feeling invalidated doesn't necessarily mean their parents or other adults in their lives did anything wrong. It can just mean that tendency towards BPD was affecting them early on, causing normal interactions to feel invalidating. I think some literature on the subject suffers from having confused reports given by people with BPD with reality. The fact that people report being abused doesn't mean they actually were abused. People with BPD have their own reality and their lies sound convincing because they believe them. At 08:14 AM 09/15/2012 jessica89675 wrote: >Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this >list, I have been reading self-help books. >And I have a comment. >Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline >Mother... >say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. >That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > >I am here to say... >My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, >the most wonderful people in my young life. >My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing >person, and was for me, an oasis of sanity. >My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. >My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. >Absolutely not abusive. > >And further. >My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. >I was born in their house. >(Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) >And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to >the fact that there were no schools were my parents were at the >time. >So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order >to be able to go to school. >Just the three of us. >My grandparents and myself. >And they were both just normal people. >Normal parents. > >I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible >for their child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the >thought. >My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that >way. >My grandparents did not make her that way. > >That is off my chest now. >Thankyou for reading. > > > -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 Hi , I think that UTBM was published in 2002, but there has been continuing research into the nature of bpd and causes of bpd since it was written. Currently, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) states that borderline pd (and some other mental illnesses as well) are caused by a *combination* of genetically predisposing (temperament) factors plus an invalidating environment. (google " the nine temperament factors by and Chess " for the list of inborn temperament traits that are observable even in infants. Fascinating stuff!) Theories about how or why bpd and other mental disorders happen are not fixed in stone, they evolve as most scientific theories do based on new information that becomes available from new research studies, using new methods or tools of study (like 3-D real-time computerized MRI brain scanning, more powerful microscopes, more understanding /mapping of the human genome, more understanding of brain structure and function RE neurobiology, etc). So, in theory genetic predisposition PLUS invalidating environment means that: some people were badly abused or neglected in childhood and develop bpd some people were badly abused or neglected in childhood and do NOT develop bpd some people had just an average, non-abusive childhood and develop bpd some people had just an average, non-abusive childhood and do NOT develop bpd. The only thing that all the researchers seem to agree on is that we don't have all the puzzle pieces yet. It will probably take decades more research and study to gain more complete knowledge about why and how mental illnesses happen. However, like in your own situation, my mother's parents were just nice, normal, average, sweet, kind, rational people. My mother's sisters are both just... normal. They married nice guys. Their kids/my cousins are normal and married nice spouses; THEIR kids are doing fine. My own mother was the only adult I ever saw on either side of my family who would trigger into red-faced, screaming rages at us, who was so chronically frustrated, unhappy and difficult to please, who was violent when enraged, and had a kind of " Jekyll and Hyde " type of character: super sweet or super scary. (Neither my younger Sister nor I have ever had a long-term adult relationship; we were both negatively impacted in that way, although we are both successful at our careers.) So, the current NIMH hypothesis seems logical or at least plausible to me. -Annie > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have been reading self-help books. > And I have a comment. > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > > I am here to say... > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most wonderful people in my young life. > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and was for me, an oasis of sanity. > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not abusive. > > And further. > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. > I was born in their house. > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able to go to school. > Just the three of us. > My grandparents and myself. > And they were both just normal people. > Normal parents. > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. > My grandparents did not make her that way. > > That is off my chest now. > Thankyou for reading. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 -- Our understanding of BPD and the roots of the problem is always expanding. When it comes to mental illness and personality/character disorders, there is generally no single factor -- it's a mix of nature and nurture, and sometimes an overwhelming influence in one of these arenas can swamp out all the good coming from the other. It's entirely possible that your grandparents had very little to do with your mother's developing her disorder. As far as I can tell, my mother's upbringing was perfectly fine as well. Think of it this way. Everyone is born with a certain set of temperamental characteristics -- prone to be fussy, prone to be calm, prone to be easily scared, prone to be good-natured, prone to be irritable. How those inborn tendencies emerge into adult personalities is heavily influenced by the environment they are raised in, but depending on what the inborn tendencies are and how strong they are, the effects of the environment may be large, small, or non-existent. Current thinking, I believe, is that people can be " born " BPD (with a massively overdeveloped emotional sensitivity and an undeveloped impulse control ability), or they can be " made " BPD (have their basically normal temperament overwritten and messed up by abuse.) So it's entirely possible that your mother's problems had nothing to do with her upbringing. There are also some kids out there -- the " resilient " children -- who can suffer horrible abuse throughout their childhoods and come out basically okay, somehow, mostly due to inborn personality factors that offer protection. It used to be that both autism and schizophrenia were blamed on bad mothering. We now know that that has nothing to do with it, although lousy parenting can make both of these problems more serious and debilitating, of course, just as exceptional parenting can SOMETIMES -- not always -- ameliorate the damage coming from the biological wiring difficulties that were inborn. (As a side note, there is some fascinating research out there indicating that schizophrenia might be, in part, an infectious disease, which some people have a sensitivity to and most people don't -- check out the Toxoplasmosis theory of schizophrenia if you're curious.) Chances are that personality disorders are more similar to high blood pressure or high blood sugar in terms of their heritability -- some people can eat fatty foods every day, all day, and never get heart disease, whereas some other people are born with cholesterol-metabolism issues that mean they'll die of heart disease by age twenty no matter what they eat. (Familial hypercholesterolemia.) If your baby is born with Tay-Sachs disease, he is going to sicken and die by age two no matter how amazing, wonderful, and caring a parent you are. It's a bitter truth, but it's real. Your mother may simply have been born with neurological wiring that made it impossible for her to be a good mother, despite her having been raised well with excellent parental modeling. It's okay to absolve your grandparents - no one around here is going to insist on blaming your mother's problems on them. Your mother's problems are her own. Even if they HAD been caused by abuse, it would still have been her responsibility to work to handle her own problems, no matter their source. An abusive background warrants compassion and assistance for struggling people -- NOT absolution for bad behavior. I hope that helps you feel better about your grandparents. I'm glad they were there for you. My maternal grandfather died before I was born, but from what I saw of my mother's behavior around my maternal grandmother, she treated her own mother with the same raging behavior that she has always treated me and my brother, and for as little reason. I remember how confused and frightened my maternal grandmother always seemed during these fits, and how she would plead with my mother to calm down, and how little good it did. I don't know whether or not my maternal grandparents were perfect parents or not -- hardly anyone is a perfect parent -- but there has never been any evidence that they abused my mother, and my maternal uncle is a gentle and quiet-tempered man with three adoring kids and numerous grandkids. My mother was also raised in a condition of affluence, with the best schooling and neighborhoods when she was growing up, so it's unlikely that she picked up her behaviors from her non-family environment either. In short, I also find it hard to believe that her behavior is caused by the kind of abuse cited in " Borderline Mother. " While I would dearly, DEARLY love an explanation for why my mother is so full of rage at the world, I don't have one, and at this point it may never come. It would in some ways be deeply reassuring to be able to go " Oh, she was locked in a closet, fed roaches, and let out once a month on every third Sunday, and that's why she is the way she is " -- but it's clearly not true. Whatever " explanation " there is just isn't going to be that straightforward. It's important to keep in mind when reading self-help books, even those written by licensed psychologists, that authors are as prone as the rest of us to go for the easy answer. " She's raging at the world because she was treated badly as a child! " is an easy answer -- and often wrong. It used to be believed that all adult domestic abusers were abused as kids -- turns out that's not even remotely true. The best numbers currently are that about 30% of abusers have an abusive background, but MOST people who are abused have no desire to perpetuate that kind of thing. So the 70% of abusers who were raised well are getting their problems from some other source. What exactly that source is, is a subject of a lot of interest, but we don't have any real data on it yet. I'll wrap up this typically rambling post with this slightly paraphrased quote: " For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and straightforward. It's also wrong. " H. L. Mencken Personality disorders are complex problems. Therefore, ANY simple and clear answer for them should be regarded with deep suspicion. Best, Jen H. On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:14 AM, jessica89675 jessica89675@...>wrote: > ** > > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have > been reading self-help books. > And I have a comment. > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > > I am here to say... > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most > wonderful people in my young life. > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and > was for me, an oasis of sanity. > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not > abusive. > > And further. > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. > I was born in their house. > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact > that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able > to go to school. > Just the three of us. > My grandparents and myself. > And they were both just normal people. > Normal parents. > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their > child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. > My grandparents did not make her that way. > > That is off my chest now. > Thankyou for reading. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 Hi , I have read the same thing several times. Or rather, that an abusive early childhood MAY contribute to the development of BPD. I don't doubt that if someone has the genetic propensity to develop BPD, an abusive household would add to it, but I agree 100% with you; my Nada is BPD and always will be mostly because that is the way her brain functions. My Grandmother I remember little bits of, and I think Nada may be right in blaming her to some extent for her unhealthy development. My Grandfather, on the other hand, is the most wonderful, caring, loving and beautiful person in the world, and no amount of perfection from him would have prevented my mom's disability. My Nada spent YEARS blaming, raging, writing cruel letters, sucking money out of my wonderful grandfather because everything wrong with her was " his fault " somehow. The most ironic of all: all of her accusations about the " terrible " things that he did to her, if true, would have been significantly less damaging than any one of the things she did to me growing up. I recently went through an exercise in the book " Surviving the Borderline Parent " (which I highly recommend) in which I asked my grandfather several questions about my Nada growing up. It was very interesting and informative, but also very difficult to see him in so much pain. I let him know that I thought he must have been a wonderful father, and no matter what Nada says, I know what a great person he is. I'm glad I got the chance to do it while he is still with us. I wanted to comment on this, because I also take exception to that common explanation. Welcome to the group! - Jets > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have been reading self-help books. > And I have a comment. > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > > I am here to say... > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most wonderful people in my young life. > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and was for me, an oasis of sanity. > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not abusive. > > And further. > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. > I was born in their house. > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able to go to school. > Just the three of us. > My grandparents and myself. > And they were both just normal people. > Normal parents. > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. > My grandparents did not make her that way. > > That is off my chest now. > Thankyou for reading. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 , that's really interesting. You wonder how someone's personality can be so different, so dysfunctional, despite being raised by loving parents? Maybe your mother is just wired that way? Is it possible your grandparents weren't always as loving with your mother as they were with you? My father was very, VERY different with my kids than he was with us. He was an entirely different person. I'm not sure it's possible to put the finger on one thing when it comes to personality disorders. > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have been reading self-help books. > And I have a comment. > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > > I am here to say... > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most wonderful people in my young life. > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and was for me, an oasis of sanity. > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not abusive. > > And further. > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. > I was born in their house. > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able to go to school. > Just the three of us. > My grandparents and myself. > And they were both just normal people. > Normal parents. > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. > My grandparents did not make her that way. > > That is off my chest now. > Thankyou for reading. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 I agree that bpd can develop independent of any abuse or neglect, that some people are wired differently. But I know that my nada and fada behave completely differently with my children, appear loving and nurturing. I've never hugged by my nada, but she hugged my kids often, especially when they were young. They seem to accept the unique personalities and differences in my kids and could not do that with me and my brothers. In fact this dual behaviour is what kept me trying so long, figuring that maybe my parents were just stressed at the time they had kids, tough job, they were young..also that somehow I could mend the parent relationship through my kids, finally create a happy loving family that I didn't have, with grandparents, cousins, uncles. But her old behaviours have crept back, now I'm realizing they were there all along, insidious controlling manipulations. The response from Fiona about her fada doing everything and fixing everything rings so true. My father still picked out my car at age 35, and fixes everything, so much so that when I went NC a few months ago I actually have had panic attacks if something needs to be dealt with. Somewhere in my brain I have a deep rooted fear of not being able to take care of myself. That I'll fail and need to come crawling back to them. Even though I am perfectly capable, and so is my husband. And if we can't do it, well we can hire someone who does know how. Seems simple enough, the rest of the world does it, but these panic attacks are weird! Thanks for the support, this group has been a godsend for me getting through these last few months. NG _____ From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Fiona Sent: September-17-12 8:31 AM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: My NADA's parents , that's really interesting. You wonder how someone's personality can be so different, so dysfunctional, despite being raised by loving parents? Maybe your mother is just wired that way? Is it possible your grandparents weren't always as loving with your mother as they were with you? My father was very, VERY different with my kids than he was with us. He was an entirely different person. I'm not sure it's possible to put the finger on one thing when it comes to personality disorders. > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have been reading self-help books. > And I have a comment. > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > > I am here to say... > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most wonderful people in my young life. > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and was for me, an oasis of sanity. > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not abusive. > > And further. > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. > I was born in their house. > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able to go to school. > Just the three of us. > My grandparents and myself. > And they were both just normal people. > Normal parents. > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. > My grandparents did not make her that way. > > That is off my chest now. > Thankyou for reading. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Odd, I hadn't thought about that for a while, but your post made me recall that when my nephew was a toddler, preschooler, and young child my nada was like a different person with him than the way she had been with Sister and me. And at the time, I speculated that perhaps it was because he was a boy. Perhaps because Sister and I are girls, there was no boundary for nada: her daughters WERE her and she was US so that nada's own self-loathing and need for perfection was projected onto us. But nada adored men, or at least seemed to. Her best and most charming self would appear when there was a party that included male neighbors or acquaintances. But just as you mentioned, her " default " setting began to appear as my nephew grew into a teenager; she became demanding and critical of him, and even cruel, sort of the way she treated dad. Sister had to be the mother bear, rearing up and roaring, to make nada back off. Wow, just thinking about all that drama and angst gives me the ghost of a headache, even now. Jeez, Louise. -Annie > > > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have > been reading self-help books. > > And I have a comment. > > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... > > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. > > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > > > > I am here to say... > > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most > wonderful people in my young life. > > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and > was for me, an oasis of sanity. > > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. > > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not > abusive. > > > > And further. > > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. > > I was born in their house. > > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) > > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact > that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. > > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able > to go to school. > > Just the three of us. > > My grandparents and myself. > > And they were both just normal people. > > Normal parents. > > > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their > child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. > > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. > > My grandparents did not make her that way. > > > > That is off my chest now. > > Thankyou for reading. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 On the www.bpdfamily.com http://www.bpdfamily.com/> thread for BPD parents there was some great discussion about how nada's tend to turn on the grandkids when they hit teenage years. My oldest DS is 12 and all the comments about how they freak out on the older kids is one of the big reasons I set so tight of boundaries (that I've not had to practice yet :-(). It would seem that the younger kids give them the narcissistic love and satisfaction they need and don't question anything they say but obey blindly. I have seen my nada get vicious when they don't do what she tells them to even at the younger ages, but they are so resilient and loving they don't hold it against her. As they age they start to remember the anger and respond negatively toward it which seems to push the nadas into the rejection mode that sparks their fits. My oldest DS is so compliant and hates conflict so he hasn't seemed to spark my nadas rage yet but the time is coming because he is starting to show a lot more emotion and independence with me (which is good and healthy!). However, what does it do to them to see their grandma, whom they've adored for so long, turn on them like pit-bull? What we experienced was different because we lived with her and saw the split personality from the get-go but these poor grandkids have been sheltered in hopefully healthy home lives. I would think they will be devastated . . . Annie - how did your nephew handle it? Did he say #@%& off and get on with it, or was he really crushed by her cruelty toward him? I'm sure all kids would handle it differently but I'm choosing to go mother bear on nada now before she can mess with my kids. :-( jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@... _____ From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of anuria67854 Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:20 AM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: My NADA's parents Odd, I hadn't thought about that for a while, but your post made me recall that when my nephew was a toddler, preschooler, and young child my nada was like a different person with him than the way she had been with Sister and me. And at the time, I speculated that perhaps it was because he was a boy. Perhaps because Sister and I are girls, there was no boundary for nada: her daughters WERE her and she was US so that nada's own self-loathing and need for perfection was projected onto us. But nada adored men, or at least seemed to. Her best and most charming self would appear when there was a party that included male neighbors or acquaintances. But just as you mentioned, her " default " setting began to appear as my nephew grew into a teenager; she became demanding and critical of him, and even cruel, sort of the way she treated dad. Sister had to be the mother bear, rearing up and roaring, to make nada back off. Wow, just thinking about all that drama and angst gives me the ghost of a headache, even now. Jeez, Louise. -Annie > > > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have > been reading self-help books. > > And I have a comment. > > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... > > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. > > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > > > > I am here to say... > > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most > wonderful people in my young life. > > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and > was for me, an oasis of sanity. > > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. > > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not > abusive. > > > > And further. > > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. > > I was born in their house. > > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) > > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact > that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. > > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able > to go to school. > > Just the three of us. > > My grandparents and myself. > > And they were both just normal people. > > Normal parents. > > > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their > child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. > > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. > > My grandparents did not make her that way. > > > > That is off my chest now. > > Thankyou for reading. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 My nephew has a sweet and gentle personality, so he didn't confront his grandnada, he just left the room when she'd say something critical or demanding to him. Sister is the one who fought back and told our nada to back off. -Annie > > On the www.bpdfamily.com http://www.bpdfamily.com/> thread for BPD parents > there was some great discussion about how nada's tend to turn on the > grandkids when they hit teenage years. My oldest DS is 12 and all the > comments about how they freak out on the older kids is one of the big > reasons I set so tight of boundaries (that I've not had to practice yet > :-(). It would seem that the younger kids give them the narcissistic love > and satisfaction they need and don't question anything they say but obey > blindly. I have seen my nada get vicious when they don't do what she tells > them to even at the younger ages, but they are so resilient and loving they > don't hold it against her. As they age they start to remember the anger and > respond negatively toward it which seems to push the nadas into the > rejection mode that sparks their fits. My oldest DS is so compliant and > hates conflict so he hasn't seemed to spark my nadas rage yet but the time > is coming because he is starting to show a lot more emotion and independence > with me (which is good and healthy!). However, what does it do to them to > see their grandma, whom they've adored for so long, turn on them like > pit-bull? What we experienced was different because we lived with her and > saw the split personality from the get-go but these poor grandkids have been > sheltered in hopefully healthy home lives. I would think they will be > devastated . . . > > > > Annie - how did your nephew handle it? Did he say #@%& off and get on with > it, or was he really crushed by her cruelty toward him? I'm sure all kids > would handle it differently but I'm choosing to go mother bear on nada now > before she can mess with my kids. :-( > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Hi Annie, Interetsing; my Nada also highly favours men (at least until they " let her down " . I have seen her experience such a dramatic change between dealing with the women in our family to the men that her voice actually changes, she becomes almost infantile. In particular, her brothers are absolute angels in her eyes. She has always loved her brothers (or at least been much better at expressing love towards them) much more than me. I wonder if the boundary created by gender has anything to do with the Nada being more able to view the person as an individual... Just thought I would piggy-back on that - Jets > > > > > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, I have > > been reading self-help books. > > > And I have a comment. > > > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > > > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... > > > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. > > > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > > > > > > I am here to say... > > > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the most > > wonderful people in my young life. > > > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing person, and > > was for me, an oasis of sanity. > > > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. > > > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely not > > abusive. > > > > > > And further. > > > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. > > > I was born in their house. > > > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) > > > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the fact > > that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. > > > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to be able > > to go to school. > > > Just the three of us. > > > My grandparents and myself. > > > And they were both just normal people. > > > Normal parents. > > > > > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for their > > child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. > > > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. > > > My grandparents did not make her that way. > > > > > > That is off my chest now. > > > Thankyou for reading. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 It occurred to me today that part of the problem of " minorities " is that they internalize the hatred thrown at them. For example, woman are taught that what they do is not as significant as what men do. My BPD mother taught me women are second to men. If a person has internalized the " badness " of that group rather than hating themselves they'll just hate others of that group. Also they'll suck up to powerful men to get their protection. Just internalized ideas that BPDs picked up because they can't think for themselves. I had an aunt who was kind to me as a child. Recently I told her I had a rough time with my parents. She explained it away by saying my mother REALLY really wanted a boy and that's what made things so rough for us! I don't know how to even deal with that. I feel my aunt was trying to explain it away or justify but it felt so wrong. I couldn't see how someone who would say that could be " safe " . Needless to say my mother was like your mothers. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:39 PM, jetshockeylove jetshockeylove@...>wrote: > ** > > > Hi Annie, > > Interetsing; my Nada also highly favours men (at least until they " let her > down " . I have seen her experience such a dramatic change between dealing > with the women in our family to the men that her voice actually changes, > she becomes almost infantile. In particular, her brothers are absolute > angels in her eyes. She has always loved her brothers (or at least been > much better at expressing love towards them) much more than me. I wonder if > the boundary created by gender has anything to do with the Nada being more > able to view the person as an individual... > > Just thought I would piggy-back on that > > - Jets > > > > > > > > > > Hi. I am a fairly new member of this list. Since finding this list, > I have > > > been reading self-help books. > > > > And I have a comment. > > > > Some of these books, and I am currently in the middle of > > > > Lawson's book...Understanding the Borderline Mother... > > > > say that people become BPD due to early childhood experiences. > > > > That they were mistreated somehow by their parents. > > > > > > > > I am here to say... > > > > My maternal grandparents were the most loving, the most normal, the > most > > > wonderful people in my young life. > > > > My mother's mother was the most sane, most caring and nuturing > person, and > > > was for me, an oasis of sanity. > > > > My mother's mother was the only " real " mother I ever had. > > > > My mother's father was a wonderful, gentle, caring man. Absolutely > not > > > abusive. > > > > > > > > And further. > > > > My grandparents were in my life for the get-go. > > > > I was born in their house. > > > > (Yes. In the days where doctors came to the house.) > > > > And I even spent a year with them, at age seven, alone, due to the > fact > > > that there were no schools were my parents were at the time. > > > > So I lived for a year with my grandparents....alone....in order to > be able > > > to go to school. > > > > Just the three of us. > > > > My grandparents and myself. > > > > And they were both just normal people. > > > > Normal parents. > > > > > > > > I cringe when I read that parents are, or might be, responsible for > their > > > child's BPD. I absolutely take exception to the thought. > > > > My mother is BPD because she is BPD. She is just wired that way. > > > > My grandparents did not make her that way. > > > > > > > > That is off my chest now. > > > > Thankyou for reading. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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