Book recommendation for the rejection flea?

[Guest guest]

Hi. I'm working through the Surviving a Borderline Parent book, and I've

realized that I have a major problem with rejection. I have not pursued my

dreams because I'm so afraid of rejection. I'm also afraid of speaking up about

anything because I don't want to get raged at or cause any conflict. Can anyone

suggest a book you've encountered? Thanks!

[Guest guest]

,

I do have a book for you. It's not the typical psych type books we normally

recommend here, but it might help you in the pursuit of your dreams.

Cameron has written a great many books to help artists who are stuck (but they

can apply to anyone who has let their dream get away from them, artist or not).

The original is The Artist's Way. It's sort of self-help workbook to rediscover

the real you that you buried and to bring it out again. I know Amazon usually

has fairly cheap used copies. It takes some work, but it's well worth it. I used

it years ago to help me, long before I understood any of the BPD stuff or how

screwed up my family is, and it got me started on my journey of recovery. I can

only imagine how powerful it can be when used in conjunction with the journey. 

Best of luck to you! You deserve to go after your dreams!

________________________________

To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " WTOAdultChildren1 >

Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:41 AM

Subject: Book recommendation for the rejection " flea " ?

 

Hi. I'm working through the Surviving a Borderline Parent book, and I've

realized that I have a major problem with rejection. I have not pursued my

dreams because I'm so afraid of rejection. I'm also afraid of speaking up about

anything because I don't want to get raged at or cause any conflict. Can anyone

suggest a book you've encountered? Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I really like the work of Brene Brown http://www.brenebrown.com/ . Her

videos made me cry but were very healing. One of my close friends bought me

the kindle version of " The gifts of imperfection " and I'm working through it

slowly because it's really hard.

Hope that helps.

Hugs

L

[Guest guest]

Hi. I am currently reading Understanding the Borderline Mother by

Lawson. And I find myself thinking....Did my mother read the script???

As for myself....I find myself in the book as well, as the daughter of a

NADA Queen. In one respect, it's sort of a relief to know that my coping

strategies are normal coping strategies. On the other hand, I have also

found myself getting upset, angry even, but at the same time, I continue to

read these books.

At the end of the book the author says something interesting...and

again....I am glad to see that I am " normal " ....or.....that my responses to

growing up with a NADA are normal. The author said, reading self-help

books don't help. They just lead to frustration. She said, we need therapy.

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Sommer gunnysacked@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi. I'm working through the Surviving a Borderline Parent book, and I've

> realized that I have a major problem with rejection. I have not pursued my

> dreams because I'm so afraid of rejection. I'm also afraid of speaking up

> about anything because I don't want to get raged at or cause any conflict.

> Can anyone suggest a book you've encountered? Thanks!

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I read UTBM, I had to keep picking my jaw up off the floor. I could only

read it in small bits, a few pages at a time, because I kept breaking down in

tears. It felt as though the author had observed my life with my nada and had

written it down. My nada was a blend of Queen and Witch in her younger years,

and as she aged she added in some Waif characteristics also.

I also agree that reading the various books about bpd is the *starting point*

for us KOs. The books educate us about the nature of the disorder and help us

put the puzzle pieces of our bpd parent's behavior together, but they don't

really address our own damage and our own healing. Finding a good therapist and

two years of therapy really helped my Sister a lot; I could see a real, positive

difference in her before and after those two years. Sister found a therapist

who coincidentally had had a borderline pd mother himself, so he was really

understanding about Sister's issues.

From what I've read, therapy is sort of like being re-parented, and sort of like

learning to parent our own self, in healthy, loving " normal " ways. Makes sense

to me, that what we need to help us heal is a safe, healthy, nurturing parental

bond, even if its a " re-do " with a substitute parent in the form of a therapist.

So, thank you for sharing your experience with reading UTBM.

-Annie

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hi. I'm working through the Surviving a Borderline Parent book, and I've

> > realized that I have a major problem with rejection. I have not pursued my

> > dreams because I'm so afraid of rejection. I'm also afraid of speaking up

> > about anything because I don't want to get raged at or cause any conflict.

> > Can anyone suggest a book you've encountered? Thanks!

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Francis jessica89675@...>wrote:

> Hi. I am currently reading Understanding the Borderline Mother by

> Lawson. And I find myself thinking....Did my mother read the script???

>

The thing that astonished me about reading UTBM is how, until I read it, I

thought my Mom's crazy was specific and unique to her, since I had never

heard of anyone else's Mom acting that way -- although of course many BPDs

confine their atrocious behavior to their intimate relationships, which are

both more threatening to them and more " safe " for their outbursts, so if

there WERE other BPD Moms in my neighborhood, I probably wouldn't have been

aware. When I found out that this was a remarkably regular and specific

and repeated pattern of bad behaviors that certain kinds of mothers

exhibited, it really turned on a light bulb, because it means (to me) that

there really is a neurological pattern or problem at the root of a lot of

it. If it were completely idiosyncratic, all BPDs would act out their crazy

in different ways -- but they DON'T. They're all very much alike -- they

have definable symptoms, a recognizable syndrome, sort of. They don't go

crazy in their own way -- they go crazy in a very particular and pretty

predictable way! I find that reassuring in the sense of " Hey, there really

is something wrong with her brain or her thinking patterns, something we

have a name for. " As has been said, " To be able to name something it to

have some power over it. "

It also means that someday there may be even better and more easily applied

treatments to fix whatever's going on in their brains. That's hopeful too.

-- Jen H.

[Guest guest]

I felt the same way when I read UBM. . . it was relieving to know I'm not

alone, but it also confuses me that she did and didn't have a choice. She

should have recognized it was crazy behavior and got help but I suspect her

father was the same way with her so somehow she thinks it is normal. I'm

angry and grieving over my childhood that could never have been normal based

on what you've commented on and yet she is not entirely responsible. . .

very frustrating to work through all those emotions.

jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Hawthorne

Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:00 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Book recommendation for the rejection

" flea " ?

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Francis jessica89675@...

>wrote:

> Hi. I am currently reading Understanding the Borderline Mother by

> Lawson. And I find myself thinking....Did my mother read the script???

>

The thing that astonished me about reading UTBM is how, until I read it, I

thought my Mom's crazy was specific and unique to her, since I had never

heard of anyone else's Mom acting that way -- although of course many BPDs

confine their atrocious behavior to their intimate relationships, which are

both more threatening to them and more " safe " for their outbursts, so if

there WERE other BPD Moms in my neighborhood, I probably wouldn't have been

aware. When I found out that this was a remarkably regular and specific

and repeated pattern of bad behaviors that certain kinds of mothers

exhibited, it really turned on a light bulb, because it means (to me) that

there really is a neurological pattern or problem at the root of a lot of

it. If it were completely idiosyncratic, all BPDs would act out their crazy

in different ways -- but they DON'T. They're all very much alike -- they

have definable symptoms, a recognizable syndrome, sort of. They don't go

crazy in their own way -- they go crazy in a very particular and pretty

predictable way! I find that reassuring in the sense of " Hey, there really

is something wrong with her brain or her thinking patterns, something we

have a name for. " As has been said, " To be able to name something it to

have some power over it. "

It also means that someday there may be even better and more easily applied

treatments to fix whatever's going on in their brains. That's hopeful too.

-- Jen H.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Renslow jwjrenslow@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> I felt the same way when I read UBM. . . it was relieving to know I'm not

> alone, but it also confuses me that she did and didn't have a choice. She

> should have recognized it was crazy behavior and got help but I suspect her

> father was the same way with her so somehow she thinks it is normal. I'm

> angry and grieving over my childhood that could never have been normal

> based

> on what you've commented on and yet she is not entirely responsible. . .

> very frustrating to work through all those emotions.

>

>

>

>

I'm not suggesting -- in ANY way -- that the fact that their problems are

neurological/cognitive in nature means they aren't responsible for their

actions. Just like anyone else with a problem that results in them causing

misery and damage to innocents, they have to be held responsible for what

they do if they don't choose to seek out help and take action to render

themselves safe to be around. If a paranoid schizophrenic walks up to me

with a stick in his hand and starts screaming that I'm beaming thoughts

into his head and if I don't stop he's going to kill me, it's not AT ALL

reasonable to suggest that I have to stand there and let myself be clubbed

to death just because the man didn't ask to be mentally ill. Taking action

to protect myself is what I *should* (and must and will) do. I may feel

strong compassion for his situation, but that doesn't mean he gets free

license to hurt me, or anyone else, simply because he's ill. (If he were

delusional and raving due to a high fever, I wouldn't let him club me to

death THEN either.)

So I'm not saying anyone should necessarily absolve their Nadas on the

grounds that the problem may have genetic/neurological roots in a lot of

cases -- just that I hope that the regularity of the symptoms means that

more effective treatments can be found in the future, or better ways to

recognize the problem early and see to it that the affected get the help

they need to not harm their loved ones -- and/or themselves, for the

self-damaging BPDs.

Understanding (and compassion if possible) isn't the same thing as

absolution or resignation to bad treatment.

-- Jen H.

[Guest guest]

I agree! But that doesn't mean looking at all the wasted years isn't

painful. I'm actually more upset I didn't run off to another state when I

graduated high school and never speak to her again. I'm wishing I had all

those years back that I thought it was me that was crazy and that we could

eventually have a relationship. . . she is stuck in a broken record she

can't get off because she is NPD and BPD and they almost NEVER seek or

receive help. She has choices, yes, but based on the books I've read they

really cannot get out of their own crazy cycle; so although they are

responsible they are slaves to their own insanity, which is sad and

pathetic. All I can do now is RUN AWAY!!!

jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Hawthorne

Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 9:54 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Book recommendation for the rejection

" flea " ?

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Renslow jwjrenslow@...

>wrote:

> **

>

>

> I felt the same way when I read UBM. . . it was relieving to know I'm not

> alone, but it also confuses me that she did and didn't have a choice. She

> should have recognized it was crazy behavior and got help but I suspect

her

> father was the same way with her so somehow she thinks it is normal. I'm

> angry and grieving over my childhood that could never have been normal

> based

> on what you've commented on and yet she is not entirely responsible. . .

> very frustrating to work through all those emotions.

>

>

>

>

I'm not suggesting -- in ANY way -- that the fact that their problems are

neurological/cognitive in nature means they aren't responsible for their

actions. Just like anyone else with a problem that results in them causing

misery and damage to innocents, they have to be held responsible for what

they do if they don't choose to seek out help and take action to render

themselves safe to be around. If a paranoid schizophrenic walks up to me

with a stick in his hand and starts screaming that I'm beaming thoughts

into his head and if I don't stop he's going to kill me, it's not AT ALL

reasonable to suggest that I have to stand there and let myself be clubbed

to death just because the man didn't ask to be mentally ill. Taking action

to protect myself is what I *should* (and must and will) do. I may feel

strong compassion for his situation, but that doesn't mean he gets free

license to hurt me, or anyone else, simply because he's ill. (If he were

delusional and raving due to a high fever, I wouldn't let him club me to

death THEN either.)

So I'm not saying anyone should necessarily absolve their Nadas on the

grounds that the problem may have genetic/neurological roots in a lot of

cases -- just that I hope that the regularity of the symptoms means that

more effective treatments can be found in the future, or better ways to

recognize the problem early and see to it that the affected get the help

they need to not harm their loved ones -- and/or themselves, for the

self-damaging BPDs.

Understanding (and compassion if possible) isn't the same thing as

absolution or resignation to bad treatment.

-- Jen H.

[Guest guest]

Good point . I find myself oscillating between hate, pity (quickly followed

by self-loathing for falling for the waif thing), and indifference. Integrating

these seems like the impossible dream sometimes.

Jaleo

[Guest guest]

I agree with you....so far the books I have read... " don't really address

our own damage and our own healing " , or, how do we move on from here?

(Anyone out there looking for a topic for a new book?)

I am looking for practical, every day help.

OK...Now I know things from Mom's perspective.

Or. I think I do.

As an adult child, how do I proceed?

I have come across little hints here and there.

Such as...

While you can't change the wiring....they are what they are.....they

*are*capable of changing their behaviors...

IF THEY ARE MOTIVATED TO DO SO.

My Queen/Witch Nada is now living with me.

No choice. She is now no longer able to live alone due to being elderly,

and having accidentally set two kitchen fires in her own house due to

forgetfullness.

(Or maybe she was playing the waif?? I don't know.)

It took about a month...but one day she came at me....

I stood my ground. I stood tall. I told her in a Big Voice to get her hands

off me.

And I told her to go and pack her bags because she needed to make alternate

living arrangements.

This was the first time in my life I have ever ever yelled at my mother.

I have always previously been submissive and done what I was told.

That was a year ago, and she hasn't physically attacked me since.

Although, my status has changed from " the good one " to " the bad one " and

she now enjoys telling all who will listen about how awful I am.

My husband is now the reigning " good one " .

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:46 AM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> When I read UTBM, I had to keep picking my jaw up off the floor. I could

> only read it in small bits, a few pages at a time, because I kept breaking

> down in tears. It felt as though the author had observed my life with my

> nada and had written it down. My nada was a blend of Queen and Witch in her

> younger years, and as she aged she added in some Waif characteristics also.

>

> I also agree that reading the various books about bpd is the *starting

> point* for us KOs. The books educate us about the nature of the disorder

> and help us put the puzzle pieces of our bpd parent's behavior together,

> but they don't really address our own damage and our own healing. Finding a

> good therapist and two years of therapy really helped my Sister a lot; I

> could see a real, positive difference in her before and after those two

> years. Sister found a therapist who coincidentally had had a borderline pd

> mother himself, so he was really understanding about Sister's issues.

>

> From what I've read, therapy is sort of like being re-parented, and sort

> of like learning to parent our own self, in healthy, loving " normal " ways.

> Makes sense to me, that what we need to help us heal is a safe, healthy,

> nurturing parental bond, even if its a " re-do " with a substitute parent in

> the form of a therapist.

>

> So, thank you for sharing your experience with reading UTBM.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > > **

>

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi. I'm working through the Surviving a Borderline Parent book, and

> I've

> > > realized that I have a major problem with rejection. I have not

> pursued my

> > > dreams because I'm so afraid of rejection. I'm also afraid of speaking

> up

> > > about anything because I don't want to get raged at or cause any

> conflict.

> > > Can anyone suggest a book you've encountered? Thanks!

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi all -

A book I've read that I thought was very good on the subject of breaking

bad emotional habits ( " fleas " ) was:

Reinventing Your Life: The Breakthrough Program to End Negative Behavior

.... and Feel Great Again [book] by E. Young, Janet S. Klosko

That title promises a more than it actually delivers in my opinion, but

it's a solid introductory book on the notion of emotional " schemas " (bad

habits, basically), and it describes about eighteen different fairly common

schemas that can tie people up. There's a list of the eighteen basic ones

with descriptions at:

http://www.schematherapy.com/id73.htm

According to this list, two schemas that involve hypersensitivity to

rejection are (copy-pasted from that page):

4. DEFECTIVENESS / SHAME (DS)

The feeling that one is defective, bad, unwanted, inferior, or invalid

in important respects; or that one would be unlovable to significant others

if exposed. May involve hypersensitivity to criticism, rejection, and

blame; self-consciousness, comparisons, and insecurity around others; or a

sense of shame regarding one's perceived flaws. These flaws may be private

(e.g., selfishness, angry impulses, unacceptable sexual desires) or public

(e.g., undesirable physical appearance, social awkwardness).

14. APPROVAL-SEEKING / RECOGNITION-SEEKING (AS)

Excessive emphasis on gaining approval, recognition, or attention from

other people, or fitting in, at the expense of developing a secure and true

sense of self. One's sense of esteem is dependent primarily on the

reactions of others rather than on one's own natural inclinations.

Sometimes includes an overemphasis on status, appearance, social

acceptance, money, or achievement -- as means of gaining approval,

admiration, or attention (not primarily for power or control). Frequently

results in major life decisions that are inauthentic or unsatisfying; or

in hypersensitivity to rejection.

There are others that also may apply wholly or in part.

The book gives you self-test questionnaires you can run to try and decide

which " schema " most fits your personal style, and the book gives ideas and

suggestions for how to re-program these schemas into something more

positive. You can probably order from a library pretty easily (or get the

paperback from Amazon, it's pretty inexpensive.)

I've never actually done schema therapy (it's newish) but I thought the

book had a lot of interesting stuff in it. If you get a copy from the

library, you can do the self-tests (they're short) and figure out which

" schema " the book thinks is most like you, and then just read that section.

Best,

Jen H.

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Francis jessica89675@...>wrote:

> I agree with you....so far the books I have read... " don't really address

> our own damage and our own healing " , or, how do we move on from here?

>

> (Anyone out there looking for a topic for a new book?)

>

> I am looking for practical, every day help.

>

> OK...Now I know things from Mom's perspective.

> Or. I think I do.

> As an adult child, how do I proceed?

>

> I have come across little hints here and there.

> Such as...

> While you can't change the wiring....they are what they are.....they

> *are*capable of changing their behaviors...

> IF THEY ARE MOTIVATED TO DO SO.

>

> My Queen/Witch Nada is now living with me.

> No choice. She is now no longer able to live alone due to being elderly,

> and having accidentally set two kitchen fires in her own house due to

> forgetfullness.

> (Or maybe she was playing the waif?? I don't know.)

> It took about a month...but one day she came at me....

> I stood my ground. I stood tall. I told her in a Big Voice to get her hands

> off me.

> And I told her to go and pack her bags because she needed to make alternate

> living arrangements.

>

> This was the first time in my life I have ever ever yelled at my mother.

> I have always previously been submissive and done what I was told.

>

> That was a year ago, and she hasn't physically attacked me since.

> Although, my status has changed from " the good one " to " the bad one " and

> she now enjoys telling all who will listen about how awful I am.

>

> My husband is now the reigning " good one " .

>

>

>

>

> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:46 AM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...

> >wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > When I read UTBM, I had to keep picking my jaw up off the floor. I could

> > only read it in small bits, a few pages at a time, because I kept

> breaking

> > down in tears. It felt as though the author had observed my life with my

> > nada and had written it down. My nada was a blend of Queen and Witch in

> her

> > younger years, and as she aged she added in some Waif characteristics

> also.

> >

> > I also agree that reading the various books about bpd is the *starting

> > point* for us KOs. The books educate us about the nature of the disorder

> > and help us put the puzzle pieces of our bpd parent's behavior together,

> > but they don't really address our own damage and our own healing.

> Finding a

> > good therapist and two years of therapy really helped my Sister a lot; I

> > could see a real, positive difference in her before and after those two

> > years. Sister found a therapist who coincidentally had had a borderline

> pd

> > mother himself, so he was really understanding about Sister's issues.

> >

> > From what I've read, therapy is sort of like being re-parented, and sort

> > of like learning to parent our own self, in healthy, loving " normal "

> ways.

> > Makes sense to me, that what we need to help us heal is a safe, healthy,

> > nurturing parental bond, even if its a " re-do " with a substitute parent

> in

> > the form of a therapist.

> >

> > So, thank you for sharing your experience with reading UTBM.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > > **

> >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi. I'm working through the Surviving a Borderline Parent book, and

> > I've

> > > > realized that I have a major problem with rejection. I have not

> > pursued my

> > > > dreams because I'm so afraid of rejection. I'm also afraid of

> speaking

> > up

> > > > about anything because I don't want to get raged at or cause any

> > conflict.

> > > > Can anyone suggest a book you've encountered? Thanks!

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

My heart goes out to you. I suggest that if your bpd mother is at the point

where she is a danger to herself and others due to starting FIRES (whether

accidentally or not) that is a really, REALLY serious matter.

If that is the case, she really can't be left alone, and its in her best

interest and yours to look into what her options are for supervised residential

care. That's an awfully serious risk to your home and life, dear, if your bpd

mom decides to try and cook something again and starts another fire, or if she

becomes increasingly out of touch with reality and again attempts to physically

attack you or others.

IF your bpd mother is drifting into dementia, you and your husband probably do

not have the training or experience or ability to supervise your mother 24/7;

that is what Alzheimer's units are for, to prevent the elderly patients from

harming themselves or harming other people, as my nada had started doing. My

nada had begun going outdoors at night to wander around (and there was a ravine

adjacent to her apartment complex grounds that she could easily have fallen

into) and she had become increasingly paranoid and physically violent; at one

point my nada tried to entice a small child into her apartment without the

mother's consent, nada became belligerent with the police (nada had been

hallucinating and called the police to come deal with the " circus people " ) and

being violent with the police got her taken in for a 72-hour hold and

evaluation. Once nada had been relocated into the residential care home, nada

physically attacked and injured one of her care-givers.

I suggest that its in your best interest to research and plan your next steps

for the possibility that your bpd mom's out of control behaviors may escalate,

such as if she attempts to physically attack you again, or physically attack

your husband or a visitor, or if she shows signs of wanting to cook again/start

a fire again, if she begins hallucinating or shows other signs of dementia.

You might want to consult with her doctor about it, or with a psychologist, or a

social worker, and/or start looking into the Alzheimer's care homes in your area

for options so you have a plan in place.

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this, whether its just bpd that your

mother has or if its bpd plus encroaching dementia. Regular folks really

don't have the training or experience or resources to deal with an elderly

parent with dementia, even if the parent has never had a personality disorder.

Dementia its heartbreaking at the least and genuinely hazardous/dangerous for

the patient and for others, at the worst.

-Annie

> > >

> > > > **

> >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi. I'm working through the Surviving a Borderline Parent book, and

> > I've

> > > > realized that I have a major problem with rejection. I have not

> > pursued my

> > > > dreams because I'm so afraid of rejection. I'm also afraid of speaking

> > up

> > > > about anything because I don't want to get raged at or cause any

> > conflict.

> > > > Can anyone suggest a book you've encountered? Thanks!

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi all, In regard to this post from last week: " They're all very much alike --

they have definable symptoms, a recognizable syndrome, sort of. They don't go

crazy in their own way -- they go crazy in a very particular and pretty

predictable way! It also means that someday there may be even better and more

easily applied treatments to fix whatever's going on in their brains. That's

hopeful too. " This is a conversation I have had with a friend who is a

neurosurgeon who specializes in deep brain stimulation for depression, among

other things. He also dated a Borderline for 3 years. When I forwarded him this

post, here was his response...if only it were more promising...

" Yes. even if you identify patterns of brain activity on PET, fMRI etc scans,

it actually doesn't imply an ability to treat. "

[Guest guest]

Hi SHannon --

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Rubin thenightsquirrel@...

> wrote:

> **

>

>

>

>

> Hi all, In regard to this post from last week: " They're all very much

> alike -- they have definable symptoms, a recognizable syndrome, sort of.

> They don't go crazy in their own way -- they go crazy in a very particular

> and pretty predictable way! It also means that someday there may be even

> better and more easily applied treatments to fix whatever's going on in

> their brains. That's hopeful too. " This is a conversation I have had with a

> friend who is a neurosurgeon who specializes in deep brain stimulation for

> depression, among other things. He also dated a Borderline for 3 years.

> When I forwarded him this post, here was his response...if only it were

> more promising...

>

> " Yes. even if you identify patterns of brain activity on PET, fMRI etc

> scans, it actually doesn't imply an ability to treat. "

>

>

No, of course not. We know what's behind a lot of serious diseases today --

cystic fibrosis, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and so on -- without having any

way to actually cure them. I still think it's more hopeful to know rather

than not know, though. It opens up the possibility -- by no means a

guarantee, but a possibility -- of better options in the future.

I mean, what's the other choice? To NOT find out what's going on, and just

go, " Hey, we don't understand this, and even if we DO understand it that

doesn't mean we'll be able to do anything about it, so why should we bother

trying to understand it when there's no guarantees? " If we'd taken that

attitude we'd never have beaten ANY diseases, right?

Also, regardless of whether or not understanding leads to new treatments, I

at least really like to understand what causes things, even that

understanding doesn't give the power to change it. I just like *knowing*.

But maybe that's only me.

Best,

Jen H.

[Guest guest]

I think the point was that the more we discover about mental illnesses, and as

technology advances and research continues, hopefully some day that will result

in more effective therapy for mental illness, and perhaps even cures or

prevention. Its a hope for the distant future, not for here and now. We are

still chipping away at the very top of the iceberg, now; it will probably take

decades to chip down even a fraction of the iceberg that represents what we

don't yet know about the phenomenon of mental illness.

-Annie

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> Hi all, In regard to this post from last week: " They're all very much alike

-- they have definable symptoms, a recognizable syndrome, sort of. They don't

go crazy in their own way -- they go crazy in a very particular and pretty

predictable way! It also means that someday there may be even better and more

easily applied treatments to fix whatever's going on in their brains. That's

hopeful too. " This is a conversation I have had with a friend who is a

neurosurgeon who specializes in deep brain stimulation for depression, among

other things. He also dated a Borderline for 3 years. When I forwarded him this

post, here was his response...if only it were more promising...

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> " Yes. even if you identify patterns of brain activity on PET, fMRI etc scans,

it actually doesn't imply an ability to treat. "

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