New to the group

[Guest guest]

My doc told us no water within 1/2 hour of eating but load up on it before

that and no water for at least an hour after eating. If you have spicy foods

and need a swig, then use a small ice chip...it statisfies more than a sip.

Dianne B.

[Guest guest]

Glad you're here.

The longer you wait, at least an hour, after you eat to drink water, the

fuller you should stay. I always drink a big glass of water right before I

eat, then absolutely none afterward for at least an hour. I can still feel

the food at an hour, so I usually try to wait longer. Sometimes a one

teaspoon sip if something burns or is too salty.

If I take pills, I wait a half hour and take them with a few tablespoons of

water.

I think not drinking the water during or after eating is extremely important

in getting full on less and staying full.

in Austin

RNY April 1998

New to the group

> Hello! I am so happy that I found this group. I am hoping to find

> some people that are maybe sharing some of the problems that I have.

> I am 4 1/2 years post op. I lost 103 pounds after surgery. I really

> could have lost another 50 but I was happy. The problem now is that

> I have been gaining the weight back. I know that I have fallen into

> a lot of old bad habits. I need to adjust that. I have started

> watching what I eat again and am drinking water like crazy. I guess

> that I was not that educated on this whole thing. I have learned a

> lot in the past few days just reading other posts. I never knew that

> I should not be drinking after I eat!!!! I just fell into the

> honeymoon period of the weight loss and now it is creeping back up.

> I really hope that you will allow me to join your group and I would

> love to hear from other post opies!!!!! Thanks

>

>

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello

My name is and I am thankful to have found this group. My mother has

cycles (I will explain in a moment) and seemed to be ramping back up so I was

driven to see if I could find a more appropriate method for the madness. Prior

to now my method has been avoidance/ignoring her in any way possible.

Some background (and I will try to keep it as brief as possible but I'm terrible

at brief) to start. My nada was young when she conceived me. She was naive and

Immature due to her childhood. Lots of abuse physically from her father and

emotionally from her mother and her siblings found great humor in picking on her

because of how emotional and extreme her reactions were. Unfortunately she was

also abused/tormented by the members of her church who insisted she had demons

etc. She was 19 when she got pregnant and almost 20 when I was born, but

emotionally nowhere near that age. she was always moody and seemed unstable

when I was really young, I'm told she was pretty good with me as a baby but when

I learned to talk and question things changed. I remember the earlier years

hiding in closets and laying outside my parents bedroom crying because I was

afraid (we had a scary house- dark and noisy) but I knew waking her was suicide.

As I grew older her temper became worse. I was a bit mouthy later in the years

which probably never helped, lots of sarcasm and jokes. I recall being 8-9 and

having a sleepover with a friend at our house. My mom was having some loud

party but we were to not bother them and my friend convinced me to go ask them

to quiet down. It set mom off in a rage in which she told me I ruined her life

and how she wished Iwas never born.

Over the years her temper continued and she was volatile to say the least. My

dad always commented on how she and I could just never get long (bless his

clueless heart, my dads only real crime was being clueless and allowing her to

do these things).

I remember specific episodes like her waiting at the top of the stairs with my

shoes for hours until I came home (she bragged) just to throw them at my head

when I came in because I put them in the improper spot. Another time she threw

a glass Carmex jar at my head for reasons unknown. I do recall a calculus book.

Eng thrown with force at my back (the one instance I threatened to report her

abuse- she got nice fast). On another occasion she was angered at a joke I made

and kicked the rest of the family out of the car and drove me to another block,

pinning me against the glass screaming and spitting in my face. Later I was

informed this lasted at least 45 minutes. I do remember her giving my jeans

that I purchased with own money (I worked two jobs I case i had to split) to a

friend and telling her that they looked far better on her than me. These are

just some examples from childhood. I did begin to run away once, my dad stopped

me, he knew he was my weakness and my only rock at the time. I should add that

I was an only child until she had my sister when I was 14. I resented my sister

because my mom would say things like " this is my chance to do things right " or

talked about how she felt a closer bond to this baby.

I constantly told any family or close friends who would listen about how my

mother was insane, psychotic, that she wasn't right. Nearly everyone back then

just told me I was being dramatic and that teenage girls aren't supposed to like

their moms. This was so much deeper. For a very long time I honestly and

truthfully believed that my mother was bipolar.

I joined the service and left (on her birthday, a bold move in hindsight) and we

had a long distance relationship. I can handle her better as an adult, but she

still hurts. Hr antics are less violent and more cruel now.

When my husband Deployed the first time I was 21 and lonely and struggling. I

called my mother hoping for support and just kindness. She told my sister

loudly that she did not want to talk to me knowing I could hear and hung up.

She called me later to discuss how inconsiderate I was to her, I had NO idea how

lucky I had it to have nobody to annoy me. When I moved out she decided to

homeschool my sister for kindergarten, then years later when it no longer suited

her, she plunged my sister into the school system, but that's a different set of

stories. Every few years she gets really sentimental and tries to get closer

again. When her and my dad divorced she came to stay with me over Christmas and

it was mostly a good visit. But then she dated some guy and I didn't hear from

her. She flits in and out like this. S

I have no issues with her distancing herself. Those are the delightful times.

An email here or a nice text there. She is poisoning someone else at those

times. She inevitably ruins that relationship and it all piles back on me. She

got remarried a few years back and is divorced again. Impulsive relationship,

volatile and chaotic. She throws things at him, he drinks, he calls her names,

etc. she has ditched him and now realizes she does not know my children one

bit. She made my daughter cry in the past because she refused to talk to her on

the phone, so calls stopped. My daughter has no contact with her, and it's just

easiest. For a while my mom emailed her but flaked and it's just easiest this

way. My son knows her only through my stories. I can honestly say I think

height have talked to her 4 or 5 times in 8.5 years of life. She randomly comes

up with weird ideas regarding them, but usually forgets them when another man

shows up OR the stepdad pops back up (she is still convinced that as soon as she

can convince him to stop drinking that they will have this perfect marriage

again- they never did). One example of this is that last winter she got it in

her head that she would video chat my daughter and read a king book to

her. If she knew my daughter she would know tha the girl has no interest in SK

novels or that genre. She would also know that she reads on a college grade

level and can't STAND to be read to. She laughed though and told me she would

just pretend to listen and I could tell her a few choice parts to claim to like.

But alas, my mother of the year forgot her brilliant plan and we were saved.

Things like this happen often, it's been a roller coaster ride. Another silly

little example of how she got to me would be that on my 10th anniversary she

called me to inform me that she was taking my father to court and trying to have

him put in jail for negligence on his child support. At the time he was out of

a job and it was a sore subject for me anyway, but that she called me to tell me

that on my anniversary felt very calculated. Never a word about my anniversary.

She often tells me that nobody meets their souls mate when they are young and

that marriages that are formed early never last. My husband and I wed when I

was 18 and have been married almost 14 years. He has been my rock, he really

keeps me going. She makes little sly and snide digs at him often, which I've

always ignored.

About a month ago she told my grandmother (paternal, her and I are very close)

that she is sure that our marriage is farce, that I am not as happy as I pretend

to be and that I am really in trouble and that i am trying to rub it in her face

because she has 2 failed marriages. I am almost positive that she said that

knowing that my grandmother would tell me. Again I ignored her.

Now last week I received a text with numerous photos from her, asking if I would

email them to her. She expects me to drop everything I am doing to do these

things for her. I ignored it as I received it after working a split shift and

having to run errands after work and I was downright exhausted. First thing the

next morning I hear from my aunt. This is a woman that has been more like a

mother to me than her sister. She told her that she was worried about me and

that she knows my grandmother has been telling me derogatory things about mom

and my sister (they are both a train wreck but that's another story). My aunt

was livid as my mother speaks to her a few times a year and only when she wants

something. Now my mom is bombarding me with texts and telling me that she

bought me presents and she misses me. I'm sick to death of her game and so here

I am hoping to find some way to live m life and still have something with her,

even if it is distanced greatly. I find great comfort in the many miles between

us, and I hoPe things can stay this way.

I do apologize for the length, I feel like stuff went unsaid even still, but

this was a good starting point I hope. I am hoping to find some peace in life

regarding her, I can't just ignore her forever.

Thank you for reading,

[Guest guest]

Welcome, ! How long have you known about BPD? If you read up on

it, you'll find out that your mother is perfectly normal for that disorder.

This is a great group to make you feel better about distancing yourself from

her emotionally. Thanks for sharing!

jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of littlemissstevenson

Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 7:39 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: New to the group

Hello

My name is and I am thankful to have found this group. My mother

has cycles (I will explain in a moment) and seemed to be ramping back up so

I was driven to see if I could find a more appropriate method for the

madness. Prior to now my method has been avoidance/ignoring her in any way

possible.

Some background (and I will try to keep it as brief as possible but I'm

terrible at brief) to start. My nada was young when she conceived me. She

was naive and Immature due to her childhood. Lots of abuse physically from

her father and emotionally from her mother and her siblings found great

humor in picking on her because of how emotional and extreme her reactions

were. Unfortunately she was also abused/tormented by the members of her

church who insisted she had demons etc. She was 19 when she got pregnant and

almost 20 when I was born, but emotionally nowhere near that age. she was

always moody and seemed unstable when I was really young, I'm told she was

pretty good with me as a baby but when I learned to talk and question things

changed. I remember the earlier years hiding in closets and laying outside

my parents bedroom crying because I was afraid (we had a scary house- dark

and noisy) but I knew waking her was suicide.

As I grew older her temper became worse. I was a bit mouthy later in the

years which probably never helped, lots of sarcasm and jokes. I recall being

8-9 and having a sleepover with a friend at our house. My mom was having

some loud party but we were to not bother them and my friend convinced me to

go ask them to quiet down. It set mom off in a rage in which she told me I

ruined her life and how she wished Iwas never born.

Over the years her temper continued and she was volatile to say the least.

My dad always commented on how she and I could just never get long (bless

his clueless heart, my dads only real crime was being clueless and allowing

her to do these things).

I remember specific episodes like her waiting at the top of the stairs with

my shoes for hours until I came home (she bragged) just to throw them at my

head when I came in because I put them in the improper spot. Another time

she threw a glass Carmex jar at my head for reasons unknown. I do recall a

calculus book. Eng thrown with force at my back (the one instance I

threatened to report her abuse- she got nice fast). On another occasion she

was angered at a joke I made and kicked the rest of the family out of the

car and drove me to another block, pinning me against the glass screaming

and spitting in my face. Later I was informed this lasted at least 45

minutes. I do remember her giving my jeans that I purchased with own money

(I worked two jobs I case i had to split) to a friend and telling her that

they looked far better on her than me. These are just some examples from

childhood. I did begin to run away once, my dad stopped me, he knew he was

my weakness and my only rock at the time. I should add that I was an only

child until she had my sister when I was 14. I resented my sister because my

mom would say things like " this is my chance to do things right " or talked

about how she felt a closer bond to this baby.

I constantly told any family or close friends who would listen about how my

mother was insane, psychotic, that she wasn't right. Nearly everyone back

then just told me I was being dramatic and that teenage girls aren't

supposed to like their moms. This was so much deeper. For a very long time I

honestly and truthfully believed that my mother was bipolar.

I joined the service and left (on her birthday, a bold move in hindsight)

and we had a long distance relationship. I can handle her better as an

adult, but she still hurts. Hr antics are less violent and more cruel now.

When my husband Deployed the first time I was 21 and lonely and struggling.

I called my mother hoping for support and just kindness. She told my sister

loudly that she did not want to talk to me knowing I could hear and hung up.

She called me later to discuss how inconsiderate I was to her, I had NO idea

how lucky I had it to have nobody to annoy me. When I moved out she decided

to homeschool my sister for kindergarten, then years later when it no longer

suited her, she plunged my sister into the school system, but that's a

different set of stories. Every few years she gets really sentimental and

tries to get closer again. When her and my dad divorced she came to stay

with me over Christmas and it was mostly a good visit. But then she dated

some guy and I didn't hear from her. She flits in and out like this. S

I have no issues with her distancing herself. Those are the delightful

times. An email here or a nice text there. She is poisoning someone else at

those times. She inevitably ruins that relationship and it all piles back on

me. She got remarried a few years back and is divorced again. Impulsive

relationship, volatile and chaotic. She throws things at him, he drinks, he

calls her names, etc. she has ditched him and now realizes she does not know

my children one bit. She made my daughter cry in the past because she

refused to talk to her on the phone, so calls stopped. My daughter has no

contact with her, and it's just easiest. For a while my mom emailed her but

flaked and it's just easiest this way. My son knows her only through my

stories. I can honestly say I think height have talked to her 4 or 5 times

in 8.5 years of life. She randomly comes up with weird ideas regarding them,

but usually forgets them when another man shows up OR the stepdad pops back

up (she is still convinced that as soon as she can convince him to stop

drinking that they will have this perfect marriage again- they never did).

One example of this is that last winter she got it in her head that she

would video chat my daughter and read a king book to her. If she

knew my daughter she would know tha the girl has no interest in SK novels or

that genre. She would also know that she reads on a college grade level and

can't STAND to be read to. She laughed though and told me she would just

pretend to listen and I could tell her a few choice parts to claim to like.

But alas, my mother of the year forgot her brilliant plan and we were saved.

Things like this happen often, it's been a roller coaster ride. Another

silly little example of how she got to me would be that on my 10th

anniversary she called me to inform me that she was taking my father to

court and trying to have him put in jail for negligence on his child

support. At the time he was out of a job and it was a sore subject for me

anyway, but that she called me to tell me that on my anniversary felt very

calculated. Never a word about my anniversary.

She often tells me that nobody meets their souls mate when they are young

and that marriages that are formed early never last. My husband and I wed

when I was 18 and have been married almost 14 years. He has been my rock, he

really keeps me going. She makes little sly and snide digs at him often,

which I've always ignored.

About a month ago she told my grandmother (paternal, her and I are very

close) that she is sure that our marriage is farce, that I am not as happy

as I pretend to be and that I am really in trouble and that i am trying to

rub it in her face because she has 2 failed marriages. I am almost positive

that she said that knowing that my grandmother would tell me. Again I

ignored her.

Now last week I received a text with numerous photos from her, asking if I

would email them to her. She expects me to drop everything I am doing to do

these things for her. I ignored it as I received it after working a split

shift and having to run errands after work and I was downright exhausted.

First thing the next morning I hear from my aunt. This is a woman that has

been more like a mother to me than her sister. She told her that she was

worried about me and that she knows my grandmother has been telling me

derogatory things about mom and my sister (they are both a train wreck but

that's another story). My aunt was livid as my mother speaks to her a few

times a year and only when she wants something. Now my mom is bombarding me

with texts and telling me that she bought me presents and she misses me. I'm

sick to death of her game and so here I am hoping to find some way to live m

life and still have something with her, even if it is distanced greatly. I

find great comfort in the many miles between us, and I hoPe things can stay

this way.

I do apologize for the length, I feel like stuff went unsaid even still, but

this was a good starting point I hope. I am hoping to find some peace in

life regarding her, I can't just ignore her forever.

Thank you for reading,

[Guest guest]

I did some hard reading back about 4 years ago. The more I read the more I was

sure this was what she had. Of course I always assumed her spontaneous outbursts

were bipolar based, and the more I thought about I knew she never had the really

severe withdrawn depressive moments. I chose to read more. That was what led me

there. Having a name was adequate for a long time, but now I need to know

strategies or ideas to keep her from making me crazy!

> Welcome, ! How long have you known about BPD? If you read up on

> it, you'll find out that your mother is perfectly normal for that disorder.

> This is a great group to make you feel better about distancing yourself from

> her emotionally. Thanks for sharing!

>

>

>

> jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of littlemissstevenson

> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 7:39 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: New to the group

>

> Hello

> My name is and I am thankful to have found this group. My mother

> has cycles (I will explain in a moment) and seemed to be ramping back up so

> I was driven to see if I could find a more appropriate method for the

> madness. Prior to now my method has been avoidance/ignoring her in any way

> possible.

>

> Some background (and I will try to keep it as brief as possible but I'm

> terrible at brief) to start. My nada was young when she conceived me. She

> was naive and Immature due to her childhood. Lots of abuse physically from

> her father and emotionally from her mother and her siblings found great

> humor in picking on her because of how emotional and extreme her reactions

> were. Unfortunately she was also abused/tormented by the members of her

> church who insisted she had demons etc. She was 19 when she got pregnant and

> almost 20 when I was born, but emotionally nowhere near that age. she was

> always moody and seemed unstable when I was really young, I'm told she was

> pretty good with me as a baby but when I learned to talk and question things

> changed. I remember the earlier years hiding in closets and laying outside

> my parents bedroom crying because I was afraid (we had a scary house- dark

> and noisy) but I knew waking her was suicide.

>

> As I grew older her temper became worse. I was a bit mouthy later in the

> years which probably never helped, lots of sarcasm and jokes. I recall being

> 8-9 and having a sleepover with a friend at our house. My mom was having

> some loud party but we were to not bother them and my friend convinced me to

> go ask them to quiet down. It set mom off in a rage in which she told me I

> ruined her life and how she wished Iwas never born.

>

> Over the years her temper continued and she was volatile to say the least.

> My dad always commented on how she and I could just never get long (bless

> his clueless heart, my dads only real crime was being clueless and allowing

> her to do these things).

> I remember specific episodes like her waiting at the top of the stairs with

> my shoes for hours until I came home (she bragged) just to throw them at my

> head when I came in because I put them in the improper spot. Another time

> she threw a glass Carmex jar at my head for reasons unknown. I do recall a

> calculus book. Eng thrown with force at my back (the one instance I

> threatened to report her abuse- she got nice fast). On another occasion she

> was angered at a joke I made and kicked the rest of the family out of the

> car and drove me to another block, pinning me against the glass screaming

> and spitting in my face. Later I was informed this lasted at least 45

> minutes. I do remember her giving my jeans that I purchased with own money

> (I worked two jobs I case i had to split) to a friend and telling her that

> they looked far better on her than me. These are just some examples from

> childhood. I did begin to run away once, my dad stopped me, he knew he was

> my weakness and my only rock at the time. I should add that I was an only

> child until she had my sister when I was 14. I resented my sister because my

> mom would say things like " this is my chance to do things right " or talked

> about how she felt a closer bond to this baby.

>

> I constantly told any family or close friends who would listen about how my

> mother was insane, psychotic, that she wasn't right. Nearly everyone back

> then just told me I was being dramatic and that teenage girls aren't

> supposed to like their moms. This was so much deeper. For a very long time I

> honestly and truthfully believed that my mother was bipolar.

> I joined the service and left (on her birthday, a bold move in hindsight)

> and we had a long distance relationship. I can handle her better as an

> adult, but she still hurts. Hr antics are less violent and more cruel now.

>

> When my husband Deployed the first time I was 21 and lonely and struggling.

> I called my mother hoping for support and just kindness. She told my sister

> loudly that she did not want to talk to me knowing I could hear and hung up.

> She called me later to discuss how inconsiderate I was to her, I had NO idea

> how lucky I had it to have nobody to annoy me. When I moved out she decided

> to homeschool my sister for kindergarten, then years later when it no longer

> suited her, she plunged my sister into the school system, but that's a

> different set of stories. Every few years she gets really sentimental and

> tries to get closer again. When her and my dad divorced she came to stay

> with me over Christmas and it was mostly a good visit. But then she dated

> some guy and I didn't hear from her. She flits in and out like this. S

>

> I have no issues with her distancing herself. Those are the delightful

> times. An email here or a nice text there. She is poisoning someone else at

> those times. She inevitably ruins that relationship and it all piles back on

> me. She got remarried a few years back and is divorced again. Impulsive

> relationship, volatile and chaotic. She throws things at him, he drinks, he

> calls her names, etc. she has ditched him and now realizes she does not know

> my children one bit. She made my daughter cry in the past because she

> refused to talk to her on the phone, so calls stopped. My daughter has no

> contact with her, and it's just easiest. For a while my mom emailed her but

> flaked and it's just easiest this way. My son knows her only through my

> stories. I can honestly say I think height have talked to her 4 or 5 times

> in 8.5 years of life. She randomly comes up with weird ideas regarding them,

> but usually forgets them when another man shows up OR the stepdad pops back

> up (she is still convinced that as soon as she can convince him to stop

> drinking that they will have this perfect marriage again- they never did).

> One example of this is that last winter she got it in her head that she

> would video chat my daughter and read a king book to her. If she

> knew my daughter she would know tha the girl has no interest in SK novels or

> that genre. She would also know that she reads on a college grade level and

> can't STAND to be read to. She laughed though and told me she would just

> pretend to listen and I could tell her a few choice parts to claim to like.

> But alas, my mother of the year forgot her brilliant plan and we were saved.

>

> Things like this happen often, it's been a roller coaster ride. Another

> silly little example of how she got to me would be that on my 10th

> anniversary she called me to inform me that she was taking my father to

> court and trying to have him put in jail for negligence on his child

> support. At the time he was out of a job and it was a sore subject for me

> anyway, but that she called me to tell me that on my anniversary felt very

> calculated. Never a word about my anniversary.

>

> She often tells me that nobody meets their souls mate when they are young

> and that marriages that are formed early never last. My husband and I wed

> when I was 18 and have been married almost 14 years. He has been my rock, he

> really keeps me going. She makes little sly and snide digs at him often,

> which I've always ignored.

>

> About a month ago she told my grandmother (paternal, her and I are very

> close) that she is sure that our marriage is farce, that I am not as happy

> as I pretend to be and that I am really in trouble and that i am trying to

> rub it in her face because she has 2 failed marriages. I am almost positive

> that she said that knowing that my grandmother would tell me. Again I

> ignored her.

>

> Now last week I received a text with numerous photos from her, asking if I

> would email them to her. She expects me to drop everything I am doing to do

> these things for her. I ignored it as I received it after working a split

> shift and having to run errands after work and I was downright exhausted.

> First thing the next morning I hear from my aunt. This is a woman that has

> been more like a mother to me than her sister. She told her that she was

> worried about me and that she knows my grandmother has been telling me

> derogatory things about mom and my sister (they are both a train wreck but

> that's another story). My aunt was livid as my mother speaks to her a few

> times a year and only when she wants something. Now my mom is bombarding me

> with texts and telling me that she bought me presents and she misses me. I'm

> sick to death of her game and so here I am hoping to find some way to live m

> life and still have something with her, even if it is distanced greatly. I

> find great comfort in the many miles between us, and I hoPe things can stay

> this way.

>

> I do apologize for the length, I feel like stuff went unsaid even still, but

> this was a good starting point I hope. I am hoping to find some peace in

> life regarding her, I can't just ignore her forever.

>

> Thank you for reading,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the Group.

If you haven't read " Understanding The Borderline Mother " and " Surviving A

Borderline Parent " yet, those get recommended here rather often. " The Family

Guide to BPD " was written by the founder of this Group and the WTO site, Randi

Kreger.

You seem to be aware that your bpd mom isn't very likely to change the way she

behaves. Those with personality disorders usually don't feel that there is any

reason for them to change anything about their own self. So, your bpd mom

( " nada " ) would have to want to change the way she behaves, and second, she would

have to be willing and determined to do a lot of difficult, long term therapy in

order to learn how to manage/change her behaviors.

Regarding boundaries: boundaries are simply your choice of which behaviors of

your mother's that you will or will not tolerate, and what you will do (the

consequence) when she engages in an unacceptable behavior (violates your

boundary.) Boundaries are not about making your bpd mother (or " nada " ) change,

they're simply the fences you put up to protect your property.

Is there a particular behavior that your nada does that upsets you badly, that

hurts you or disrupts your life, or upsets or endangers your children?

You've found a bunch of other people here who totally " get it. " I hope you will

find much healing, validation and peace here.

-Annie

>

> Hello

> My name is and I am thankful to have found this group. My mother has

cycles (I will explain in a moment) and seemed to be ramping back up so I was

driven to see if I could find a more appropriate method for the madness. Prior

to now my method has been avoidance/ignoring her in any way possible.

[Guest guest]

Thank you! I am currently reading Stop Walking on Eggshells. I'm not very far

into it due to a lack of reading time, but I would like to definitely just find

ways to cope. I learned a few years ago that changing her would never happen

when she began reading self help books and used them to place the blame on

everyone. Her father (he abused her) and me, my father, she even had a book that

described her own new father in law. When the marriage went south she blamed her

new husband for alcoholism and proceeded to attend al-anon meetings. She tries

to push me into them for dealing with (insert the target of the week but she is

my only real alcoholic family member). She swears by al-anon and uses it to

point fingers it seems like.

I think overall I get tired of her acting out and using other people to try and

manipulate me. Mostly my father, occasionally my sister. She lashes out at my

poor dad who is divorced from her but can't shake her away. She likes to try to

bully him into listening to her. He recently told her " you're not my problem

anymore " and my sister is now suddenly against him. I suspect my mom is playing

her games and poisoning my sister towards him. My sister always adored my dad

and he's not the type to do anything substantial to hurt her. He's extremely

antisocial and weird so it's hard to say. I often wonder if she is bpd too, but

I rarely know her.

> Hi ,

> Welcome to the Group.

> If you haven't read " Understanding The Borderline Mother " and " Surviving A

Borderline Parent " yet, those get recommended here rather often. " The Family

Guide to BPD " was written by the founder of this Group and the WTO site, Randi

Kreger.

>

> You seem to be aware that your bpd mom isn't very likely to change the way she

behaves. Those with personality disorders usually don't feel that there is any

reason for them to change anything about their own self. So, your bpd mom

( " nada " ) would have to want to change the way she behaves, and second, she would

have to be willing and determined to do a lot of difficult, long term therapy in

order to learn how to manage/change her behaviors.

>

> Regarding boundaries: boundaries are simply your choice of which behaviors of

your mother's that you will or will not tolerate, and what you will do (the

consequence) when she engages in an unacceptable behavior (violates your

boundary.) Boundaries are not about making your bpd mother (or " nada " ) change,

they're simply the fences you put up to protect your property.

>

> Is there a particular behavior that your nada does that upsets you badly, that

hurts you or disrupts your life, or upsets or endangers your children?

>

> You've found a bunch of other people here who totally " get it. " I hope you

will find much healing, validation and peace here.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > Hello

> > My name is and I am thankful to have found this group. My mother

has cycles (I will explain in a moment) and seemed to be ramping back up so I

was driven to see if I could find a more appropriate method for the madness.

Prior to now my method has been avoidance/ignoring her in any way possible.

>

>

[Guest guest]

And let me just add, it's nice to find people that understand. My family thought

I was the one with the problem for so long, now I get constant calls asking me

" Did you know your mom is crazy? " . It's sad that she keeps alienating everyone

around her. Someday she won't have anything left except my enabled Sister. I'm

sure that's why my mom keeps feeding into sis. She knows that once sis leaves

she is truly alone.

> Hi ,

> Welcome to the Group.

> If you haven't read " Understanding The Borderline Mother " and " Surviving A

Borderline Parent " yet, those get recommended here rather often. " The Family

Guide to BPD " was written by the founder of this Group and the WTO site, Randi

Kreger.

>

> You seem to be aware that your bpd mom isn't very likely to change the way she

behaves. Those with personality disorders usually don't feel that there is any

reason for them to change anything about their own self. So, your bpd mom

( " nada " ) would have to want to change the way she behaves, and second, she would

have to be willing and determined to do a lot of difficult, long term therapy in

order to learn how to manage/change her behaviors.

>

> Regarding boundaries: boundaries are simply your choice of which behaviors of

your mother's that you will or will not tolerate, and what you will do (the

consequence) when she engages in an unacceptable behavior (violates your

boundary.) Boundaries are not about making your bpd mother (or " nada " ) change,

they're simply the fences you put up to protect your property.

>

> Is there a particular behavior that your nada does that upsets you badly, that

hurts you or disrupts your life, or upsets or endangers your children?

>

> You've found a bunch of other people here who totally " get it. " I hope you

will find much healing, validation and peace here.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > Hello

> > My name is and I am thankful to have found this group. My mother

has cycles (I will explain in a moment) and seemed to be ramping back up so I

was driven to see if I could find a more appropriate method for the madness.

Prior to now my method has been avoidance/ignoring her in any way possible.

>

>

[Guest guest]

If your boundary is that you no longer want to listen when your mother talks

badly about your other family members to you, gossips about them, etc., then,

when she starts in bad-mouthing someone, you can say something along the lines

of, " I'd rather hear about your shopping trip " The idea is to distract her, ask

her a question, get her to talk about another topic. Its like distracting a

toddler when they're focused on something that's not good for them, like poking

their finger in the electrical socket.

I've come to think that there isn't any point in being directly confrontational

with a person with bpd UNLESS they are being actively hostile and abusive; then

you say something like, " I can hear that you are upset but I'm not going to

listen to you when you are screaming and cursing at me. We can try discussing

this tomorrow, when you are calmer. I'm hanging up now. "

You can't change the way your mother treats other people, but you can decide

that you don't have to listen to her talk about how awful other people are; you

can disengage from being a willing, listening ear for that kind of tiresome

crap.

Check out the technique called " Medium Chill " , its a way of emotionally

disengaging from a difficult, personality-disordered person in a polite but

neutral way. Its a short article; you can read it at post #132289 of this

Group. Maybe that will work for you.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Hello

> > > My name is and I am thankful to have found this group. My mother

has cycles (I will explain in a moment) and seemed to be ramping back up so I

was driven to see if I could find a more appropriate method for the madness.

Prior to now my method has been avoidance/ignoring her in any way possible.

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> **

>

>

> Thank you! I am currently reading Stop Walking on Eggshells. I'm not very

> far into it due to a lack of reading time, but I would like to definitely

> just find ways to cope. I learned a few years ago that changing her would

> never happen when she began reading self help books and used them to place

> the blame on everyone. Her father (he abused her) and me, my father, she

> even had a book that described her own new father in law. When the marriage

> went south she blamed her new husband for alcoholism and proceeded to

> attend al-anon meetings. She tries to push me into them for dealing with

> (insert the target of the week but she is my only real alcoholic family

> member). She swears by al-anon and uses it to point fingers it seems like.

>

>

Hah, this is really ironic. I go to Al-Anon to learn how to " let go " of my

BPD Mom's bad behavior and be able to detach and give up on trying,

fruitlessly, to " fix " her. But I've run into a couple folks in Al-Anon --

just a couple, mind you! Not the majority! -- where, when they start

talking, I think to myself, " Wow, I think I see why the alcoholic in your

life drinks... " I would never say it out loud, of course (among other

things, it's factually wrong), but there are a few people I've met in

Al-Anon who are serious control freaks and latch onto the 12 Steps as way

to try and prove that they're " good " (because they're " working the

program " ) and everyone else is screwed up (because they are not " working

the program " , or not working it the way the control freak thinks is

" correct " .) For better or worse, due to the very open and

non-authoritarian structure of Al-Anon, there's no really good way to tell

these people to knock it off, even though the opening statement that's read

at every meeting specifically says you're NOT supposed to lecture the other

people at the meeting on how YOU think they should solve their problems.

The guidelines state that we're supposed to be focusing on our OWN issues,

not those of the problem person or persons in our lives, so if your Mom

goes to Al-Anon and comes out going " I know what everyone else needs to do

to improve themselves now! " she is Doing. It. Wrong. [?]

Somehow I'm not surprised, however, that a BPD would be able to take

Al-Anon and twist it around to prove that she's just fine and everyone else

is screwed up. Sounds very typical.

-- Jen H

[image: File:Doing-it-wrong.jpg]

[Guest guest]

Jen, it's funny that you said that! When I started reading posts I had to get

over my jaded view of al-anon and try and keep an open mind. Between her self

help books and al-anon I feel like she beats a dead horse. I definitely feel as

though she has abused both mediums and so I cringe when I hear either word.

I am so glad people get good out of it, I know it is such a helpful program ad

beneficial to many. I truthfully feel sorry for anyone who might go to my nadas

meetings!

>

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Thank you! I am currently reading Stop Walking on Eggshells. I'm not very

> > far into it due to a lack of reading time, but I would like to definitely

> > just find ways to cope. I learned a few years ago that changing her would

> > never happen when she began reading self help books and used them to place

> > the blame on everyone. Her father (he abused her) and me, my father, she

> > even had a book that described her own new father in law. When the marriage

> > went south she blamed her new husband for alcoholism and proceeded to

> > attend al-anon meetings. She tries to push me into them for dealing with

> > (insert the target of the week but she is my only real alcoholic family

> > member). She swears by al-anon and uses it to point fingers it seems like.

> >

> >

> Hah, this is really ironic. I go to Al-Anon to learn how to " let go " of my

> BPD Mom's bad behavior and be able to detach and give up on trying,

> fruitlessly, to " fix " her. But I've run into a couple folks in Al-Anon --

> just a couple, mind you! Not the majority! -- where, when they start

> talking, I think to myself, " Wow, I think I see why the alcoholic in your

> life drinks... " I would never say it out loud, of course (among other

> things, it's factually wrong), but there are a few people I've met in

> Al-Anon who are serious control freaks and latch onto the 12 Steps as way

> to try and prove that they're " good " (because they're " working the

> program " ) and everyone else is screwed up (because they are not " working

> the program " , or not working it the way the control freak thinks is

> " correct " .) For better or worse, due to the very open and

> non-authoritarian structure of Al-Anon, there's no really good way to tell

> these people to knock it off, even though the opening statement that's read

> at every meeting specifically says you're NOT supposed to lecture the other

> people at the meeting on how YOU think they should solve their problems.

> The guidelines state that we're supposed to be focusing on our OWN issues,

> not those of the problem person or persons in our lives, so if your Mom

> goes to Al-Anon and comes out going " I know what everyone else needs to do

> to improve themselves now! " she is Doing. It. Wrong. [?]

>

> Somehow I'm not surprised, however, that a BPD would be able to take

> Al-Anon and twist it around to prove that she's just fine and everyone else

> is screwed up. Sounds very typical.

>

> -- Jen H

>

> [image: File:Doing-it-wrong.jpg]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome . You are far from alone.

I almost smiled reading about your nada and her self-help/12-steps. My nada's

had extensive psychoanalysis, so she has " insight " and always has a comment

about everyone's inner motivations. i.e. " his brother's very successful and I

think he feels really jealous and ashamed and that's why he works so hard. "

This about a total stranger. I grew up constantly hearing this stuff about

myself- no wonder I can't figure out what I feel.

Psychobabble is a loaded weapon in the hands of a BPD/NPD.

> > >

> > > Hello

> > > My name is and I am thankful to have found this group. My mother

has cycles (I will explain in a moment) and seemed to be ramping back up so I

was driven to see if I could find a more appropriate method for the madness.

Prior to now my method has been avoidance/ignoring her in any way possible.

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Psychobabble is a loaded weapon in the hands of a BPD/NPD. "

Lol you are NOT kidding! I laugh to myself later every time I remember my nada

telling me she couldn't believe how my stepdad questioned her drinking a liter

of vodka in a few days and " doesn't he know he's the alcoholic?! " . She is

definitely the one with a problem, at least a beer a night to unwind and such. I

wish I could help her see that the alcohol is making her more depressed.

> Welcome . You are far from alone.

>

> I almost smiled reading about your nada and her self-help/12-steps. My nada's

had extensive psychoanalysis, so she has " insight " and always has a comment

about everyone's inner motivations. i.e. " his brother's very successful and I

think he feels really jealous and ashamed and that's why he works so hard. " This

about a total stranger. I grew up constantly hearing this stuff about myself- no

wonder I can't figure out what I feel.

>

> Psychobabble is a loaded weapon in the hands of a BPD/NPD.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hello

> > > > My name is and I am thankful to have found this group. My

mother has cycles (I will explain in a moment) and seemed to be ramping back up

so I was driven to see if I could find a more appropriate method for the

madness. Prior to now my method has been avoidance/ignoring her in any way

possible.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome!

There is really no need to explain how she runs in cycles. Most dysfunctional

people do.

I'm sorry you suffered so much when you were younger, but I'm glad you've found

a safe place and people who genuinely care about you now.

What about asking your mother directly what she wants? Also, it might help just

to tell relatives who want to tell you what your mother has said about you that

it isn't your business.

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

God I can relate to this so much. My alcoholic bpd/npd mother when she got

sober when I was 13 became " perfect " (We all KNOW she was already LOL), and

started spewing AA mantra to me all the time. So the AA stuff 12 step stuff is

really triggering for me. She acted like she was in a cult reciting the steps

constantly and breaking into the serenity prayer at the slightest sign of

stress.

Now, I am in no way dumping on you all who attend 12 step meetings - where you

all are is the meeting I would want to go to. But I will say that my T has said

that about 60% of alcoholics are pds. And all the people my mom picked up from

AA exemplified this, so yes, I have a lot of negative feelings related to AA.

Her love/hate AA guru friend (who sounds just like the know it all you are not

working the program enough type you describe ) came up to me after her

Memorial service and told me that she wanted me to know that my mom loved every

single hair on my head even when I was a teenager. She waited really long to

the end of the reception to tell me (I kept her waiting as I was greeting other

people as I disliked this woman and knew from my mother's diaries that they

talked smack about me a lot). The best feeling I had was acting completely

indifferent to her info. Boy she was pissed she had to wait and didn't even get

a rise out of me.

They sail off on their brooms to go hunt weaker prey.

That said I am thinking about attending an adult children of alcoholic meetings

because this particular meeting does not work the steps and I hate groups so

more reason why I should go I guess. ; )

[Guest guest]

I'd like to be another voice in favor of ACOA. I went on Sunday at the

recommendation of a number of people on this board, and I found it really

helpful. There was no preachiness at all, just an open safe forum full of a

bunch of people with the exact same issues I have.

>

> God I can relate to this so much. My alcoholic bpd/npd mother when she got

sober when I was 13 became " perfect " (We all KNOW she was already LOL), and

started spewing AA mantra to me all the time. So the AA stuff 12 step stuff is

really triggering for me. She acted like she was in a cult reciting the steps

constantly and breaking into the serenity prayer at the slightest sign of

stress.

>

> Now, I am in no way dumping on you all who attend 12 step meetings - where you

all are is the meeting I would want to go to. But I will say that my T has said

that about 60% of alcoholics are pds. And all the people my mom picked up from

AA exemplified this, so yes, I have a lot of negative feelings related to AA.

>

> Her love/hate AA guru friend (who sounds just like the know it all you are not

working the program enough type you describe ) came up to me after her

Memorial service and told me that she wanted me to know that my mom loved every

single hair on my head even when I was a teenager. She waited really long to

the end of the reception to tell me (I kept her waiting as I was greeting other

people as I disliked this woman and knew from my mother's diaries that they

talked smack about me a lot). The best feeling I had was acting completely

indifferent to her info. Boy she was pissed she had to wait and didn't even get

a rise out of me.

>

> They sail off on their brooms to go hunt weaker prey.

>

> That said I am thinking about attending an adult children of alcoholic

meetings because this particular meeting does not work the steps and I hate

groups so more reason why I should go I guess. ; )

>

[Guest guest]

>

> the AA stuff 12 step stuff is really triggering for me.

That's awful. I hate how many things in life are triggering for me, including

some that could be really helpful, thanks to nada/fada using them as weapons.

Even words.

> Her love/hate AA guru friend (who sounds just like the know it all you are not

working the program enough type you describe ) came up to me after her

Memorial service and told me that she wanted me to know that my mom loved every

single hair on my head even when I was a teenager.

Argh! Maybe she made a deathbed promise to " take care " of you...

>

> They sail off on their brooms to go hunt weaker prey.

Love it.

> That said I am thinking about attending an adult children of alcoholic

meetings because this particular meeting does not work the steps and I hate

groups so more reason why I should go I guess. ; )

>

I haven't met any PD people in ACA (not yet anyway), although there are one or

two lower-functioning types around. Although, even though they can have kooky

or paranoid ideas, I find that I can identify with the emotional kernel of

whatever they talk about. Go once- what's to lose?

Also on that topic, ACA does have their own 12 steps, which are not the AA

12-steps. They're customized, and I really like the book actually. At first I

was like, make amends? Admit my wrongs? ME? But I'm starting to get it now.

I can see how that whole thing is likely ruined for you though- nada wants me to

have psychoanalysis for my " issues " (so I can be all better and insightful like

her). So I'm doing ACA.

[Guest guest]

I'm so glad it helped you. What I really like about it is the format of sharing

without any commenting allowed. It means I can talk about anything I think or

feel and know that no one will judge, rage, or humiliate me for it. And I also

can listen quietly to other people without scrambling to mirror their stuff back

to them so I don't get raged at for being a cold-hearted little b----. It is,

sadly, a new experience for me and I think it's really valuable.

> >

> > God I can relate to this so much. My alcoholic bpd/npd mother when she got

sober when I was 13 became " perfect " (We all KNOW she was already LOL), and

started spewing AA mantra to me all the time. So the AA stuff 12 step stuff is

really triggering for me. She acted like she was in a cult reciting the steps

constantly and breaking into the serenity prayer at the slightest sign of

stress.

> >

> > Now, I am in no way dumping on you all who attend 12 step meetings - where

you all are is the meeting I would want to go to. But I will say that my T has

said that about 60% of alcoholics are pds. And all the people my mom picked up

from AA exemplified this, so yes, I have a lot of negative feelings related to

AA.

> >

> > Her love/hate AA guru friend (who sounds just like the know it all you are

not working the program enough type you describe ) came up to me after

her Memorial service and told me that she wanted me to know that my mom loved

every single hair on my head even when I was a teenager. She waited really long

to the end of the reception to tell me (I kept her waiting as I was greeting

other people as I disliked this woman and knew from my mother's diaries that

they talked smack about me a lot). The best feeling I had was acting completely

indifferent to her info. Boy she was pissed she had to wait and didn't even get

a rise out of me.

> >

> > They sail off on their brooms to go hunt weaker prey.

> >

> > That said I am thinking about attending an adult children of alcoholic

meetings because this particular meeting does not work the steps and I hate

groups so more reason why I should go I guess. ; )

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In the past I have requested them to share because I wanted to keep tabs on her

(I do worry about her because she makes horrible choices and I know she puts

herself in the most ridiculous situations). From now on I will try to not ask

people for these details also. I struggle because my now 18 year old sister is

struggling in life, living with mom, most likely going to get her GED etc. I

like to at least know where my sister stands in life, even if my sister refuses

to talk to anyone but my nada.

> Hi ,

>

> Welcome!

>

> There is really no need to explain how she runs in cycles. Most dysfunctional

people do.

>

> I'm sorry you suffered so much when you were younger, but I'm glad you've

found a safe place and people who genuinely care about you now.

>

> What about asking your mother directly what she wants? Also, it might help

just to tell relatives who want to tell you what your mother has said about you

that it isn't your business.

>

> Take care,

> Ashana

>

>