Guest guest Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 My nada seemed to me to be on " simmer " ( continuous low-grade irritability) most of the time, and easily triggered into anger no matter what time of the month it was. My memory is that she would go through cycles of fighting with dad, but those occurred over a longer range than 28 days; that cycle it seemed more like a three-month period of time and followed the typical " cycle of domestic violence " pattern, but with no physical violence: 1. explosive, shrieking screaming verbal fight, 2. honeymoon period, 3. gradual build-up of more and more irritability, fault-finding, criticism, then 4. some precipitating incident that triggered 1. another explosive fight. I looked up " estrogen+borderline pd " on Google and got Pub Med, which displayed 133 studies that dealt with the menstrual cycle and mood changes. The first study in the list: Estrogen fluctuations, oral contraceptives and borderline personality. DeSoto MC, Geary DC, Hoard MK, Sheldon MS, L. Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2003 Aug;28(6):751-66. PMID: 12812862 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] States that: " Results from three studies suggest fluctuation in estrogen level may influence the expression of borderline personality disorder (BPD) symptoms. " So, since a lot of us women experience mood fluctuations with our menstrual cycle (or used to; I'm post-menopausal) it seems logical that mood fluctuations would be exacerbated in a woman with bpd. -Annie > > I am curious if anyone has discussed or knows of a link between hormones and bpd. When my mom was pregnant (I was a teenager) she got much worse from what I perceived and she always seemed more of a monster during one week of the month than she was during others. I am reading my Stop Walking on Eggshells today and have yet to see anything about it so I wanted to ask and see what others say. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 I found this very helpful. Thank you Annie. violence " pattern, but with no physical violence: 1. explosive, shrieking screaming verbal fight, 2. honeymoon period, 3. gradual build-up of more and more irritability, fault-finding, criticism, then 4. some precipitating incident that triggered 1. another explosive fight. > > I looked up " estrogen+borderline pd " on Google and got Pub Med, which > displayed 133 studies that dealt with the menstrual cycle and mood changes. > > The first study in the list: > Estrogen fluctuations, oral contraceptives and borderline personality. > DeSoto MC, Geary DC, Hoard MK, Sheldon MS, L. > Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2003 Aug;28(6):751-66. > PMID: 12812862 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > States that: > " Results from three studies suggest fluctuation in estrogen level may > influence the expression of borderline personality disorder (BPD) symptoms. " > > So, since a lot of us women experience mood fluctuations with our > menstrual cycle (or used to; I'm post-menopausal) it seems logical that > mood fluctuations would be exacerbated in a woman with bpd. > > -Annie > > > > > > I am curious if anyone has discussed or knows of a link between hormones > and bpd. When my mom was pregnant (I was a teenager) she got much worse > from what I perceived and she always seemed more of a monster during one > week of the month than she was during others. I am reading my Stop Walking > on Eggshells today and have yet to see anything about it so I wanted to ask > and see what others say. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 This is my Nada's pattern too... it all takes about 6 weeks to complete and reloop. Re: Re: Hormones and bpd? I found this very helpful. Thank you Annie. violence " pattern, but with no physical violence: 1. explosive, shrieking screaming verbal fight, 2. honeymoon period, 3. gradual build-up of more and more irritability, fault-finding, criticism, then 4. some precipitating incident that triggered 1. another explosive fight. > > I looked up " estrogen+borderline pd " on Google and got Pub Med, which > displayed 133 studies that dealt with the menstrual cycle and mood changes. > > The first study in the list: > Estrogen fluctuations, oral contraceptives and borderline personality. > DeSoto MC, Geary DC, Hoard MK, Sheldon MS, L. > Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2003 Aug;28(6):751-66. > PMID: 12812862 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > States that: > " Results from three studies suggest fluctuation in estrogen level may > influence the expression of borderline personality disorder (BPD) symptoms. " > > So, since a lot of us women experience mood fluctuations with our > menstrual cycle (or used to; I'm post-menopausal) it seems logical > that mood fluctuations would be exacerbated in a woman with bpd. > > -Annie > > > > > > I am curious if anyone has discussed or knows of a link between > > hormones > and bpd. When my mom was pregnant (I was a teenager) she got much > worse from what I perceived and she always seemed more of a monster > during one week of the month than she was during others. I am reading > my Stop Walking on Eggshells today and have yet to see anything about > it so I wanted to ask and see what others say. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Mine doesn't necessarily work like clockwork, but she definitely showed a marked increase during pregnancy. As menopause approaches I see certain behaviors build up. I feel bad for my sister but still think " I'm so thankful I'm not there any more " > My nada seemed to me to be on " simmer " ( continuous low-grade irritability) most of the time, and easily triggered into anger no matter what time of the month it was. My memory is that she would go through cycles of fighting with dad, but those occurred over a longer range than 28 days; that cycle it seemed more like a three-month period of time and followed the typical " cycle of domestic violence " pattern, but with no physical violence: 1. explosive, shrieking screaming verbal fight, 2. honeymoon period, 3. gradual build-up of more and more irritability, fault-finding, criticism, then 4. some precipitating incident that triggered 1. another explosive fight. > > I looked up " estrogen+borderline pd " on Google and got Pub Med, which displayed 133 studies that dealt with the menstrual cycle and mood changes. > > The first study in the list: > Estrogen fluctuations, oral contraceptives and borderline personality. > DeSoto MC, Geary DC, Hoard MK, Sheldon MS, L. > Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2003 Aug;28(6):751-66. > PMID: 12812862 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > States that: > " Results from three studies suggest fluctuation in estrogen level may influence the expression of borderline personality disorder (BPD) symptoms. " > > So, since a lot of us women experience mood fluctuations with our menstrual cycle (or used to; I'm post-menopausal) it seems logical that mood fluctuations would be exacerbated in a woman with bpd. > > -Annie > > > > > > I am curious if anyone has discussed or knows of a link between hormones and bpd. When my mom was pregnant (I was a teenager) she got much worse from what I perceived and she always seemed more of a monster during one week of the month than she was during others. I am reading my Stop Walking on Eggshells today and have yet to see anything about it so I wanted to ask and see what others say. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Thanks Annie and whoever brought up this thread, This reminds me that as a teenager my mom constantly projected upon me (I realize now, alas) that I had major mood swings and changed my personality before my period. While I did have severe cramps, I did not notice any other mood swings besides the normal reacting to my mom's constant instigations. However, now I do believe it was she who had the major depressive moods around her period. She finally took me to the gyno to figure out what to do about my out of control pms. His first question? Do you take ibuprofen? I broke out crying because I felt so stupid, I had never taken so much as an aspirin for my cramps. The doctor was totally bewildered and asked me why I was crying, and I said, " Because I feel so stupid. " Yup the 400 mg of ibuprofen cured my cramps. Who knew it could be so simple. But I understand now that my mom would be classified as a Highly Sensitive Person and probably had worse CPTSD than she even gave me as harsh noises and strong perfume always put her into a downward spiral. So yes, her hormones went crazy and if I had been smart enough to chart it, I'm sure activated her pathology even worse than normal baseline. Jaleo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 This brings up an interesting point, Jaleo! Why is it our nadas denied us basic things that would have made our life easier. If you were cramping, shouldn't she as the mother have suggested Ibuprofen? She had no desire to alleviate your pain, really, she just wanted you to look like the crazy person by taking you to the doctor and making a big deal out of it. I remember a time I dyed my hair jet black (without her permission!) and went in for a hair cut from an " in-training " guy. He did a TERRIBLE job and my hair looked ridiculous. I have pictures for the next six months of insane looking hair or hats because I was so ashamed of my hair. She did nothing! Looking back, as a mom, I would take my daughter in to a real professional to fix it and dye it back to the right color but she didn't even suggest it. It is like they enjoy seeing us in pain so they feel better. :-( jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@... _____ From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of SR Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 7:09 AM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: Hormones and bpd? Thanks Annie and whoever brought up this thread, This reminds me that as a teenager my mom constantly projected upon me (I realize now, alas) that I had major mood swings and changed my personality before my period. While I did have severe cramps, I did not notice any other mood swings besides the normal reacting to my mom's constant instigations. However, now I do believe it was she who had the major depressive moods around her period. She finally took me to the gyno to figure out what to do about my out of control pms. His first question? Do you take ibuprofen? I broke out crying because I felt so stupid, I had never taken so much as an aspirin for my cramps. The doctor was totally bewildered and asked me why I was crying, and I said, " Because I feel so stupid. " Yup the 400 mg of ibuprofen cured my cramps. Who knew it could be so simple. But I understand now that my mom would be classified as a Highly Sensitive Person and probably had worse CPTSD than she even gave me as harsh noises and strong perfume always put her into a downward spiral. So yes, her hormones went crazy and if I had been smart enough to chart it, I'm sure activated her pathology even worse than normal baseline. Jaleo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Oh now you are activating my memories! And thank you. Reprocessing that memory in light of my mom's neglect and manipulation and projection has been eye opening. I mean why wouldn't you give your kid aspirin? Another question would be why would you give your five year old who gets worms about every month wine to calm her down so she would sleep? Why would you not teach her to wash her hands? So many unanswered questions! But it all comes down to we were raised by reptiles. Brief aside, does anyone know the book, " Are you my mother? " I remember reading that book as a four year old and being traumatized because I also felt like I didn't know who/where my mother was and related to that little bird so much, except for the part where he was reunited with his mother at the end. I have had one perm in my life, given to me by Nada. As it happens, I was 13, and she took a call from one of her AA cronies while it was setting. An unfortunate side story is I decided to expirament with Sun-in that summer and my hair had a pigmention best observed on America's Favorite Clown. I am a brunette. 25 minutes later I look like Mc meets Metallica. My hair was long and I had to wait a couple of years to grow it out. Never suggested dying my hair back to it's normal color, no apologies for taking a call and leaving the perm in too long so I look like I stuck my finger in a light socket. I got so belittled at school for that. Didn't do much for my counter-dependent attitude either having to turn my back to all that teenage maliciousness. Only good thing is it kept the boys away for a while longer. I was too vulnerable to affection, but boy I wasn't getting any with that lid. My brother had a memory triggered recently of us furiously cleaning the bathroom wall and trying to hide a stain on the wall from mom so she would not go into a rage. That was when I finally bought some hair dye a two years later and dyed my hair. how did you handle school with a horrible helmet? I think my mom, while she only complimented me for " being pretty " to which I would always answer, " But there is more to a person than looks, right? " and only recognized that in me, was also v. jealous of me as she hated her bpd sister and I, of course, was the reincarnation of Ubpd sis. Projection it so wonderful. Jaleo > > This brings up an interesting point, Jaleo! Why is it our nadas denied us > basic things that would have made our life easier. If you were cramping, > shouldn't she as the mother have suggested Ibuprofen? She had no desire to > alleviate your pain, really, she just wanted you to look like the crazy > person by taking you to the doctor and making a big deal out of it. > > > > I remember a time I dyed my hair jet black (without her permission!) and > went in for a hair cut from an " in-training " guy. He did a TERRIBLE job and > my hair looked ridiculous. I have pictures for the next six months of > insane looking hair or hats because I was so ashamed of my hair. She did > nothing! Looking back, as a mom, I would take my daughter in to a real > professional to fix it and dye it back to the right color but she didn't > even suggest it. It is like they enjoy seeing us in pain so they feel > better. :-( > > > > > > jwjrenslow@... > > > > _____ > > From: WTOAdultChildren1 > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of SR > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 7:09 AM > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Subject: Re: Hormones and bpd? > > > > > > Thanks Annie and whoever brought up this thread, > > This reminds me that as a teenager my mom constantly projected upon me (I > realize now, alas) that I had major mood swings and changed my personality > before my period. While I did have severe cramps, I did not notice any other > mood swings besides the normal reacting to my mom's constant instigations. > > However, now I do believe it was she who had the major depressive moods > around her period. She finally took me to the gyno to figure out what to do > about my out of control pms. His first question? Do you take ibuprofen? I > broke out crying because I felt so stupid, I had never taken so much as an > aspirin for my cramps. The doctor was totally bewildered and asked me why I > was crying, and I said, " Because I feel so stupid. " > > Yup the 400 mg of ibuprofen cured my cramps. Who knew it could be so simple. > > > But I understand now that my mom would be classified as a Highly Sensitive > Person and probably had worse CPTSD than she even gave me as harsh noises > and strong perfume always put her into a downward spiral. So yes, her > hormones went crazy and if I had been smart enough to chart it, I'm sure > activated her pathology even worse than normal baseline. > > Jaleo > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 OMG - that is so true about the " Are you my mother " book! I felt the same way! My 7 year old son was watching a disney movie the other day on Ocean life. I cried when they showed a mother walrus cradling and swimming with her baby. Cradling and wrapping those big awkward flippers around the infant. ..I have no memories of ever being hugged by my parents, only a formal kiss on the cheek in one of my wedding photos. _____ From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of lookunderfoot Sent: September-21-12 10:00 AM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: Hormones and bpd? Oh now you are activating my memories! And thank you. Reprocessing that memory in light of my mom's neglect and manipulation and projection has been eye opening. I mean why wouldn't you give your kid aspirin? Another question would be why would you give your five year old who gets worms about every month wine to calm her down so she would sleep? Why would you not teach her to wash her hands? So many unanswered questions! But it all comes down to we were raised by reptiles. Brief aside, does anyone know the book, " Are you my mother? " I remember reading that book as a four year old and being traumatized because I also felt like I didn't know who/where my mother was and related to that little bird so much, except for the part where he was reunited with his mother at the end. I have had one perm in my life, given to me by Nada. As it happens, I was 13, and she took a call from one of her AA cronies while it was setting. An unfortunate side story is I decided to expirament with Sun-in that summer and my hair had a pigmention best observed on America's Favorite Clown. I am a brunette. 25 minutes later I look like Mc meets Metallica. My hair was long and I had to wait a couple of years to grow it out. Never suggested dying my hair back to it's normal color, no apologies for taking a call and leaving the perm in too long so I look like I stuck my finger in a light socket. I got so belittled at school for that. Didn't do much for my counter-dependent attitude either having to turn my back to all that teenage maliciousness. Only good thing is it kept the boys away for a while longer. I was too vulnerable to affection, but boy I wasn't getting any with that lid. My brother had a memory triggered recently of us furiously cleaning the bathroom wall and trying to hide a stain on the wall from mom so she would not go into a rage. That was when I finally bought some hair dye a two years later and dyed my hair. how did you handle school with a horrible helmet? I think my mom, while she only complimented me for " being pretty " to which I would always answer, " But there is more to a person than looks, right? " and only recognized that in me, was also v. jealous of me as she hated her bpd sister and I, of course, was the reincarnation of Ubpd sis. Projection it so wonderful. Jaleo > > This brings up an interesting point, Jaleo! Why is it our nadas denied us > basic things that would have made our life easier. If you were cramping, > shouldn't she as the mother have suggested Ibuprofen? She had no desire to > alleviate your pain, really, she just wanted you to look like the crazy > person by taking you to the doctor and making a big deal out of it. > > > > I remember a time I dyed my hair jet black (without her permission!) and > went in for a hair cut from an " in-training " guy. He did a TERRIBLE job and > my hair looked ridiculous. I have pictures for the next six months of > insane looking hair or hats because I was so ashamed of my hair. She did > nothing! Looking back, as a mom, I would take my daughter in to a real > professional to fix it and dye it back to the right color but she didn't > even suggest it. It is like they enjoy seeing us in pain so they feel > better. :-( > > > > > > jwjrenslow@... > > > > _____ > > From: WTOAdultChildren1 > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of SR > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 7:09 AM > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Subject: Re: Hormones and bpd? > > > > > > Thanks Annie and whoever brought up this thread, > > This reminds me that as a teenager my mom constantly projected upon me (I > realize now, alas) that I had major mood swings and changed my personality > before my period. While I did have severe cramps, I did not notice any other > mood swings besides the normal reacting to my mom's constant instigations. > > However, now I do believe it was she who had the major depressive moods > around her period. She finally took me to the gyno to figure out what to do > about my out of control pms. His first question? Do you take ibuprofen? I > broke out crying because I felt so stupid, I had never taken so much as an > aspirin for my cramps. The doctor was totally bewildered and asked me why I > was crying, and I said, " Because I feel so stupid. " > > Yup the 400 mg of ibuprofen cured my cramps. Who knew it could be so simple. > > > But I understand now that my mom would be classified as a Highly Sensitive > Person and probably had worse CPTSD than she even gave me as harsh noises > and strong perfume always put her into a downward spiral. So yes, her > hormones went crazy and if I had been smart enough to chart it, I'm sure > activated her pathology even worse than normal baseline. > > Jaleo > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Interesting, my mom was painfully sensitive to noises and would fuss and eventually scream at me for a radio that was " too loud " . I find it amusing as an adult. You say things are too loud yet YOU scream? Perhaps she was especially sensitive to you at that time in lieu of you being moody, women that live together sync up so she was likely experiencing her mood swings and projecting them? > Thanks Annie and whoever brought up this thread, > > This reminds me that as a teenager my mom constantly projected upon me (I realize now, alas) that I had major mood swings and changed my personality before my period. While I did have severe cramps, I did not notice any other mood swings besides the normal reacting to my mom's constant instigations. > > However, now I do believe it was she who had the major depressive moods around her period. She finally took me to the gyno to figure out what to do about my out of control pms. His first question? Do you take ibuprofen? I broke out crying because I felt so stupid, I had never taken so much as an aspirin for my cramps. The doctor was totally bewildered and asked me why I was crying, and I said, " Because I feel so stupid. " > > Yup the 400 mg of ibuprofen cured my cramps. Who knew it could be so simple. > > But I understand now that my mom would be classified as a Highly Sensitive Person and probably had worse CPTSD than she even gave me as harsh noises and strong perfume always put her into a downward spiral. So yes, her hormones went crazy and if I had been smart enough to chart it, I'm sure activated her pathology even worse than normal baseline. > > Jaleo > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 " Brief aside, does anyone know the book, " Are you my mother? " I remember reading that book as a four year old and being traumatized because I also felt like I didn't know who/where my mother was and related to that little bird so much, except for the part where he was reunited with his mother at the end. " Funny little thing I remember thinking that the " snort " reminded me of my mom as it appeared to be blowing its top. Lol > Oh now you are activating my memories! > > And thank you. Reprocessing that memory in light of my mom's neglect and manipulation and projection has been eye opening. I mean why wouldn't you give your kid aspirin? Another question would be why would you give your five year old who gets worms about every month wine to calm her down so she would sleep? Why would you not teach her to wash her hands? So many unanswered questions! But it all comes down to we were raised by reptiles. > > Brief aside, does anyone know the book, " Are you my mother? " I remember reading that book as a four year old and being traumatized because I also felt like I didn't know who/where my mother was and related to that little bird so much, except for the part where he was reunited with his mother at the end. > > I have had one perm in my life, given to me by Nada. As it happens, I was 13, and she took a call from one of her AA cronies while it was setting. An unfortunate side story is I decided to expirament with Sun-in that summer and my hair had a pigmention best observed on America's Favorite Clown. I am a brunette. > > 25 minutes later I look like Mc meets Metallica. My hair was long and I had to wait a couple of years to grow it out. Never suggested dying my hair back to it's normal color, no apologies for taking a call and leaving the perm in too long so I look like I stuck my finger in a light socket. I got so belittled at school for that. Didn't do much for my counter-dependent attitude either having to turn my back to all that teenage maliciousness. > > Only good thing is it kept the boys away for a while longer. I was too vulnerable to affection, but boy I wasn't getting any with that lid. > > My brother had a memory triggered recently of us furiously cleaning the bathroom wall and trying to hide a stain on the wall from mom so she would not go into a rage. That was when I finally bought some hair dye a two years later and dyed my hair. > > how did you handle school with a horrible helmet? I think my mom, while she only complimented me for " being pretty " to which I would always answer, " But there is more to a person than looks, right? " and only recognized that in me, was also v. jealous of me as she hated her bpd sister and I, of course, was the reincarnation of Ubpd sis. Projection it so wonderful. > > Jaleo > > > > > > This brings up an interesting point, Jaleo! Why is it our nadas denied us > > basic things that would have made our life easier. If you were cramping, > > shouldn't she as the mother have suggested Ibuprofen? She had no desire to > > alleviate your pain, really, she just wanted you to look like the crazy > > person by taking you to the doctor and making a big deal out of it. > > > > > > > > I remember a time I dyed my hair jet black (without her permission!) and > > went in for a hair cut from an " in-training " guy. He did a TERRIBLE job and > > my hair looked ridiculous. I have pictures for the next six months of > > insane looking hair or hats because I was so ashamed of my hair. She did > > nothing! Looking back, as a mom, I would take my daughter in to a real > > professional to fix it and dye it back to the right color but she didn't > > even suggest it. It is like they enjoy seeing us in pain so they feel > > better. :-( > > > > > > > > > > > > jwjrenslow@... > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: WTOAdultChildren1 > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of SR > > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 7:09 AM > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > Subject: Re: Hormones and bpd? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Annie and whoever brought up this thread, > > > > This reminds me that as a teenager my mom constantly projected upon me (I > > realize now, alas) that I had major mood swings and changed my personality > > before my period. While I did have severe cramps, I did not notice any other > > mood swings besides the normal reacting to my mom's constant instigations. > > > > However, now I do believe it was she who had the major depressive moods > > around her period. She finally took me to the gyno to figure out what to do > > about my out of control pms. His first question? Do you take ibuprofen? I > > broke out crying because I felt so stupid, I had never taken so much as an > > aspirin for my cramps. The doctor was totally bewildered and asked me why I > > was crying, and I said, " Because I feel so stupid. " > > > > Yup the 400 mg of ibuprofen cured my cramps. Who knew it could be so simple. > > > > > > But I understand now that my mom would be classified as a Highly Sensitive > > Person and probably had worse CPTSD than she even gave me as harsh noises > > and strong perfume always put her into a downward spiral. So yes, her > > hormones went crazy and if I had been smart enough to chart it, I'm sure > > activated her pathology even worse than normal baseline. > > > > Jaleo > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 My mother loved to blame her mood swings on hormones. There was a while when she charted her hormonal cycle on the calendar in the kitchen so that we could all see and I guess be more understanding of her moods. Her mood swings were cyclical, but I honestly never saw any correlation between her periods and her moods. I was just a child, but I was an observant child. I think she just liked to have something more " normal " to blame for her out of control emotions and behaviors. PMS sounds better than mental illness. It still makes me angry that that was the impression she gave me of what it means to be an adult woman when I was 7 and had no idea. I'm sure some women do have difficulty with moods related to hormonal changes, but my mother was just nuts. Take care, Ashana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Mine was definitely nuts all year round, but it felt like hers peaked at those times. It's so hard to say looking back because sometimes you just really can't remember. If I was living with her now (cringe!!) I'd probably try and make a connection and see if one exists. Hard to say though > My mother loved to blame her mood swings on hormones. There was a while when she charted her hormonal cycle on the calendar in the kitchen so that we could all see and I guess be more understanding of her moods. Her mood swings were cyclical, but I honestly never saw any correlation between her periods and her moods. I was just a child, but I was an observant child. I think she just liked to have something more " normal " to blame for her out of control emotions and behaviors. PMS sounds better than mental illness. It still makes me angry that that was the impression she gave me of what it means to be an adult woman when I was 7 and had no idea. I'm sure some women do have difficulty with moods related to hormonal changes, but my mother was just nuts. > > Take care, > Ashana > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Hi Anuria -- On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 12:01 PM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...>wrote: > ** > > > My nada seemed to me to be on " simmer " ( continuous low-grade > irritability) most of the time, and easily triggered into anger no matter > what time of the month it was. My memory is that she would go through > cycles of fighting with dad, but those occurred over a longer range than 28 > days; that cycle it seemed more like a three-month period of time and > followed the typical " cycle of domestic violence " pattern, but with no > physical violence: 1. explosive, shrieking screaming verbal fight, 2. > honeymoon period, 3. gradual build-up of more and more irritability, > fault-finding, criticism, then 4. some precipitating incident that > triggered 1. another explosive fight. > This is very close to what my Nada is like, and it can't be hormones because she's long post-menopause. But the cycles continue, and they seem to line up really, really well with the " cycle of domestic violence. " When I read about that cycle in " Why Does He Do That? " (a book about men who batter their wives) a huge light bulb went off, because it sounded just like Nada's style, although I think my Nada's " abuse cycle " is more like two months, and it's unstable. The " Explode/Behave/Buildup -- Repeat from start " is right on the money, however. I've wondered if that means there's some kind of longer biological cycle going on, but I don't honestly think so. I expect the timing is based on a subconscious computation on the part of the abuser of how much they can " get away with " without provoking definitive action on the part of the abused. Basically, they explode, then they get worried that they might have to face consequences for it so they go all sweet and apologetic, but they immediately start " storing up " resentments and excuses for the next explosion. They hold off on the next explosion until they think their victim has gotten sufficiently lulled that they can " treat themselves " to another all-out tantrum without, once again, provoking definitive action (such as getting the Hell out) on the part of the victim. And over time the victim generally develops more " tolerance " for the cycle, and the abuser then gradually scales up the degree and/or the frequency of the abuse depending on what their subconscious judgment of how much the victim can " stand " without breaking and leaving is. It's a thoroughly nasty dance, and I have long wondered what it is that starts an abuser down this path, and why so few of them seem to have the desire or ability to stop themselves and turn around. -- Jen H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 I think that abusive people see no reason to stop themselves when there are no real, serious consequences. But if and when the " abusee " decides that he or she is not going to take it any longer and gives, real, substantial consequences for abusive behaviors, the power-balance changes and the abuser now has to do some risk-assessment. Its no longer a " free ride. " I think there are various potential outcomes in an abusive relationship: a. the abusee becomes completely passive and inured to being abused, evolving into an enabler of their own abuse: being abused becomes their " normal. " Dependent personalities who feel that any relationship, even an abusive one, is better than no relationship at all experience this outcome, and those who have been brainwashed to feel inappropriate guilt and misplaced responsibility for their abuser's feelings, experience this outcome, such as the children of the mentally ill. b. the abusee becomes so emotionally damaged that they erupt in violence against the abuser or against innocent others (bullying), become suicidally depressed and commit violence against their own self, or become substance abusers: a false, temporary escape. c. the abusee changes the way he or she responds to being abused, becoming self-protective by gaining a healthy emotional distance from the abuser, establishing firm boundaries or limits and enacting significant consequences, often seeking therapy in order to process the emotional damage and gain the feeling of self-worth necessary to be self-protective if they choose to remain in the relationship. d. the abusee simply leaves. I think (a) and ( are unhealthy ways to react to an abusive relationship, and © and (d) are healthier ways. The thing is, that minor children have no power to make self-protective choices. Because minor children have no power to rescue themselves, it takes the authority of the other, hopefully sane parent or other authority figure to rescue their child from an emotionally abusive parent. The hard part for those of us raised by an abusive, mentally ill parent, is that it can take us well into adulthood before we are able to comprehend that we actually do as adults have the power to choose options c or d. > > > ** > > > > > > My nada seemed to me to be on " simmer " ( continuous low-grade > > irritability) most of the time, and easily triggered into anger no matter > > what time of the month it was. My memory is that she would go through > > cycles of fighting with dad, but those occurred over a longer range than 28 > > days; that cycle it seemed more like a three-month period of time and > > followed the typical " cycle of domestic violence " pattern, but with no > > physical violence: 1. explosive, shrieking screaming verbal fight, 2. > > honeymoon period, 3. gradual build-up of more and more irritability, > > fault-finding, criticism, then 4. some precipitating incident that > > triggered 1. another explosive fight. > > > > This is very close to what my Nada is like, and it can't be hormones > because she's long post-menopause. But the cycles continue, and they seem > to line up really, really well with the " cycle of domestic violence. " When > I read about that cycle in " Why Does He Do That? " (a book about men who > batter their wives) a huge light bulb went off, because it sounded just > like Nada's style, although I think my Nada's " abuse cycle " is more like > two months, and it's unstable. The " Explode/Behave/Buildup -- Repeat from > start " is right on the money, however. I've wondered if that means there's > some kind of longer biological cycle going on, but I don't honestly think > so. I expect the timing is based on a subconscious computation on the part > of the abuser of how much they can " get away with " without provoking > definitive action on the part of the abused. Basically, they explode, then > they get worried that they might have to face consequences for it so they > go all sweet and apologetic, but they immediately start " storing up " > resentments and excuses for the next explosion. They hold off on the next > explosion until they think their victim has gotten sufficiently lulled that > they can " treat themselves " to another all-out tantrum without, once again, > provoking definitive action (such as getting the Hell out) on the part of > the victim. > > And over time the victim generally develops more " tolerance " for the cycle, > and the abuser then gradually scales up the degree and/or the frequency of > the abuse depending on what their subconscious judgment of how much the > victim can " stand " without breaking and leaving is. > > It's a thoroughly nasty dance, and I have long wondered what it is that > starts an abuser down this path, and why so few of them seem to have the > desire or ability to stop themselves and turn around. > > -- Jen H. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 I'm sure hormones can intensify symptoms for some bpd nadas, and I'm also sure physical symptoms of any kind set off npds. But I really do remember clearly thinking, " This is nonsense. You are no more nuts when the calendar is colored blue than the rest of the time. You go off the deep end every 2 or 3 days regardless. " Because my mother charted her cycle for us, I could clearly make a connection--and see there wasn't one. I was about 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 That is really difficult to hear that she was using the calendar to torture her kids. I hate when people justify bad behaviors like that. > I'm sure hormones can intensify symptoms for some bpd nadas, and I'm also sure physical symptoms of any kind set off npds. But I really do remember clearly thinking, " This is nonsense. You are no more nuts when the calendar is colored blue than the rest of the time. You go off the deep end every 2 or 3 days regardless. " Because my mother charted her cycle for us, I could clearly make a connection--and see there wasn't one. I was about 7. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Mine threatened suicide by banging her head against the wall and hitting herself on the side of the head. Then she beat the crap out of me.  Her " cycle " was daily, not monthly! ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Re: Hormones and bpd?  Mine was definitely nuts all year round, but it felt like hers peaked at those times. It's so hard to say looking back because sometimes you just really can't remember. If I was living with her now (cringe!!) I'd probably try and make a connection and see if one exists. Hard to say though > My mother loved to blame her mood swings on hormones. There was a while when she charted her hormonal cycle on the calendar in the kitchen so that we could all see and I guess be more understanding of her moods. Her mood swings were cyclical, but I honestly never saw any correlation between her periods and her moods. I was just a child, but I was an observant child. I think she just liked to have something more " normal " to blame for her out of control emotions and behaviors. PMS sounds better than mental illness. It still makes me angry that that was the impression she gave me of what it means to be an adult woman when I was 7 and had no idea. I'm sure some women do have difficulty with moods related to hormonal changes, but my mother was just nuts. > > Take care, > Ashana > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 , How chillingly familiar. Thanks for sharing that. Take care, Ashana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You're welcome, Ash...You gave me lots of strength.  I really needed to hear that someone else felt the same way.... Hugs, -L ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 6:35 PM Subject: Re: Hormones and bpd?  , How chillingly familiar. Thanks for sharing that. Take care, Ashana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 L, It helps me too. Hugs, Ashana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.