Guest guest Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... " I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 You are doing the right thing, for you. If you don't take control it can end up costing you your marriage (I know). Telling her she has BPD usually doesn't help because there's never anything wrong with them. Setting boundaries and holding them is the best that you can do. Just remember that a person with BPD will NEVER do the rational thing and the best thing we can do to learn to cope is to remember that they will never do the right thing, nor will they ever act in a rational way. Once we accept that its so much easier. Good luck Subject: Where and how to start? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM  I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Thank you for the input. I'd read in SWOE that it wasn't advisable to confront someone on the issue or drop the BPD label but somehow that seemed like more tip-toeing around her pain/emotional BS and that's exactly what I'm trying to STOP doing. I tired to temper it with admitting that I've had my own " disorders " -- anxiety disorder, postpartum, and yes, even moments in time where I struggled with alcohol... Crap. I thought maybe it wasn't right and her emailed response was that she'll need to retreat more - the drag is that my second child will be born any day now and even with all this BS I wish she'd just chill out and be my mommy. Well, if she won't be around for the birth that will be a huge relief for my husband. Me? I'll still be wishing to have the mommy I always needed/wanted, I guess I always will be, but sometimes you've got to buck up, I suppose. I don't know why I told her and I'm just kicking myself now!!! Subject: Where and how to start? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM  I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I also tried to temper it by saying that it's not a label of WHO SOMEONE IS but really a tool to describe WHAT SOMEONE IS EXPERIENCING. I think this is fairly accurate...? I mean, I used to suffer from anxiety but I wasn't ONLY a " PERSON WITH ANXIETY DISORDER " (altho' I know she saw me this way and brought it up over and over again), I was just a person experiencing that at the time. > > > > From: Johanna > > Subject: Where and how to start? > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM > > > >  > > > > I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 trust me, as soon as she goes off on another bender it'll be forgotten. With my nada all I had to do was tell her she was jealous of my boyfriend and his family which is why I didn't mention that I'd had dinner with them (I " m 46 by the way). That's all I hear about now. Subject: Where and how to start? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM  I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 That's pretty much what I was going to write also. Its usually advised to not tell someone that you think they might have bpd, because it usually only makes the situation worse. The person displaying bpd traits will usually not gain any personal insight if you say that to them, instead they will feel attacked and will probably feel the need to attack you back, and to deny that there is anything wrong with them. They'll become very defensive and counter that YOU are the one who is mentally ill and needs therapy. Its a core trait or feature of personality disorder: those with pds are usually not distressed by their own thoughts, feelings or behaviors, and instead feel that ALL their problems always come from outside their own self. The are unwilling or unable to take personal responsibility for their own words, acts, choices or decisions, and instead blame others. Its why most individuals with personality disorders never seek therapy. " Why should I go into therapy, there's nothing wrong with me! " is the way the personality-disordered view things. Its called an " ego syntonic " state. Those with Axis I disorders like anxiety or depression are usually very distressed by their thoughts and feelings and want to stop feeling so upset, sad, or scared and so they tend to actively seek out therapy and comply with the therapy. -Annie > > > From: Johanna > Subject: Where and how to start? > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM > > > >  > > > > I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Having her decide to retreat from you while you give birth sounds like a positive result to me. :-) When it comes to telling someone they have BPD, I think you have to consider what you hope to accomplish. If your hope is that knowing that information will somehow cause the person to change, that's pretty much a dream that isn't going to come true. If what you want to accomplish is to know that you tried your best to get her to ask for help, then maybe it is the right choice. Sometimes we need to do things so that we can feel better in knowing we tried. At 08:55 AM 09/25/2012 Johanna wrote: >Thank you for the input. I'd read in SWOE that it wasn't >advisable to >confront someone on the issue or drop the BPD label but somehow >that >seemed like more tip-toeing around her pain/emotional BS and >that's >exactly what I'm trying to STOP doing. I tired to temper it >with >admitting that I've had my own " disorders " -- anxiety disorder, > >postpartum, and yes, even moments in time where I struggled >with >alcohol... Crap. I thought maybe it wasn't right and her >emailed >response was that she'll need to retreat more - the drag is >that my >second child will be born any day now and even with all this BS >I wish >she'd just chill out and be my mommy. Well, if she won't be >around for >the birth that will be a huge relief for my husband. Me? I'll >still be > wishing to have the mommy I always needed/wanted, I guess I > always will > be, but sometimes you've got to buck up, I suppose. I don't > know why I told >her and I'm just kicking myself now!!! -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Oh, man....I may have screwed up royally! See, my mother IS distressed that she's caused so much turmoil, she IS in therapy, and she DOES take some credit for what she's done and how she's behaved. I guess I told her that I thought she had bpd b/c she'd told me that she was taking Wellbutrin and " feeling so much better!!! " and I wanted her to know that well, the rest of us are still leery and here's why. I didn't want to kick her when she's up, so to speak, but I wanted to let her know that all is not peaceful and right in the world just b/c she's on some meds. ....there are repercussions to what she's done and it's not all well and tidy now that she feels better. I never feel emotionally safe w/ her, not even when she's in a " good place. " I think I've lived so long in the FOG that I don't know how to dig myself out of it. > > > > > > From: Johanna > > Subject: Where and how to start? > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Well, what's done is done. I've found (not with my own nada but with other difficult people) that it works better to just be calmly assertive and state your boundary or enact your consequence *in the moment* when the unacceptable behavior starts up (again.) Once you can stay in the moment and just say something like, " I can hear that you're upset, but I won't listen to you when you're screaming insults at me/ but I can't talk with you when you are crying hysterically, so we can try talking again next week when you're calmer/so I'm going to leave now and we can try visiting again next week when you're calmer. " Its not about getting them to admit that they've been atrocious, its not about getting them to apologize, etc. Its not about getting them to change at all. Boundaries are about changing YOU by changing how YOU will react to unacceptable behavior. I hope that helps. -Annie > > > > > > > > > From: Johanna > > > Subject: Where and how to start? > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Goodness gracious, that helps immensely! It's not about them - it's about me. I get it now --- a day or two late, unfortunately! > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Johanna > > > > Subject: Where and how to start? > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > > Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Hi Johanna, People who don't support your marriage don't belong in your life. Your marriage is sacred. I am now a widow. My late husband and I eloped b/c nada threatened to kick him in the nuts the day she met him. And, I've posted that she tried to turn him against me in my marriage. Looking back on the precious time I spent with my late hubby, and the time I spent worrying about nada......if I had my life to live over, I would have cut the contact with nada ASAP and not look back. That's what I regret the most in life - worrying about nada and her sick mind and the energy wasted - instead of enjoying my life fully with my late husband! You're doing the right thing! Hugs, -L ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:52 AM Subject: Re: Where and how to start?  You are doing the right thing, for you. If you don't take control it can end up costing you your marriage (I know). Telling her she has BPD usually doesn't help because there's never anything wrong with them. Setting boundaries and holding them is the best that you can do. Just remember that a person with BPD will NEVER do the rational thing and the best thing we can do to learn to cope is to remember that they will never do the right thing, nor will they ever act in a rational way. Once we accept that its so much easier. Good luck Subject: Where and how to start? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM  I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I’m feeling for you now Johanna! My nada sent me an e-mail today (we’ve been NC for a month – and only e-mail since July). She wants me to forgive her, although she made it clear that it is in the past and there’s nothing she can do to change anything. She offered to go to counseling with me so they could “guide” our “reconciliation”. I can just hear her voice now as I’ve seen her in the past stomp her foot and say I HAVE to forgive her and get over it. She uses God like he is her genie in the bottle and made many references to her praying and receiving insight into our situation from God and how she should handler her “grown child” – CHILD mind you – not woman or adult but basically a big kid she still has to mother. She spouted Bible verses to the effect of I will be in direct violation of God’s commands if I don’t let it go and go back to our old way of doing things. Of course, it was all very sugar coated with “I want you to be happy” and “I’m not angry with you”. ARGGGGG!!! I would rather she disown me and move on then act like she’s applying for mother of the year and I need counseling to figure out how to forgive her, because obviously I shouldn’t be holding on to all these little hurts that she can’t even remember! I am very thankful, though, that I know about BPD because before if I had received an e-mail like this I would have felt obligated to be nice and try to continue the façade that we had before. She does not want me to set the tight boundaries that I had e-mailed her before the NC (which were no alone time with nada for me or my kids – everything would have to be as a group). She thinks that after some cooling off time and some (what she thinks as) sweet-talking I’ll forget that e-mail about her being abusive and she can have the kids by themselves again. On the other hand, I feel like it would be over board to actually go completely no-contact and write her off. Although she has issues and I need clear and major boundaries I don’t feel physically threatened by her and I know she actually believes all this *%$# that she e-mailed (she is definitely NPD too). The sympathy side of me wants to go ahead and see her go insane with the new boundaries so I’ll have ammunition to go completely no contact down the road. Right now no one but me is sure about the BPD and I don’t want my FOO to think I’m being harsh. Is it wrong to bait her into behaving badly for others to see so I feel more justified? Is it wrong to tell her she has to seek counseling for BPD before she can spend time alone with the kids? I know she won’t actually do it and if she does she’ll probably tell the counselor she HAS to go but I’m the one that is crazy. BPD/NPD can be very convincing to counselors that there is nothing wrong with them. . . jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@... _____ From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Johanna Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:16 AM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: Where and how to start? Oh, man....I may have screwed up royally! See, my mother IS distressed that she's caused so much turmoil, she IS in therapy, and she DOES take some credit for what she's done and how she's behaved. I guess I told her that I thought she had bpd b/c she'd told me that she was taking Wellbutrin and " feeling so much better!!! " and I wanted her to know that well, the rest of us are still leery and here's why. I didn't want to kick her when she's up, so to speak, but I wanted to let her know that all is not peaceful and right in the world just b/c she's on some meds. ....there are repercussions to what she's done and it's not all well and tidy now that she feels better. I never feel emotionally safe w/ her, not even when she's in a " good place. " I think I've lived so long in the FOG that I don't know how to dig myself out of it. > > > > > > From: Johanna > > Subject: Where and how to start? > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe not? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Hi -- Right now no one but me is sure about the BPD and > I don’t want my FOO to think I’m being harsh. Is it wrong to bait her into > behaving badly for others to see so I feel more justified? > I understand the desire to get the goods on your Nada so others see her the way you do, but honestly I think you should not worry about that. If your Nada is anything like mine, she is (usually) under sufficiently tight control around people outside of myself and my brother and his family that they are always going to have a very difficult time believing how badly she treats you, and you can waste a lot of time and effort on this task when really, it doesn't matter whether or not anyone else thinks you're being " harsh. " You have to do what you have to do to protect yourself and your kids. I'm not urging you to return viciousness for viciousness or anything, but if you feel the need to set and enforce boundaries you should DO that, and don't worry about what others in the FOO think. They're may be FOGged or possibly even flying monkeys anyway, and highly motivated to make excuses for her to try to keep the family balance from shifting. I would suggest trying to stop worrying about justifying yourself or how you'll look to others and just concentrating on setting and maintaining firm, clear, needed boundaries with your Nada to keep her bad behavior from damaging you. If the others in your FOO question it, you can deflect them with neutral statements like " This is just where I need to be with Mom for a while, thanks for your concern, " and then drop it. (If they persist you can go with something more pointed like, " This is between me and Mom, and we need to work it out between us. Thanks for the concern, but I'd prefer it if you stayed out of it. " And if that doesn't work, you can always try, " Butt OUT! " ) Remember that one of the crazy-making things about a lot of BPDs is how they CAN behave normally around " outsiders " while still being horrible to their nearest and dearest. Don't expect that you'll necessarily be able to prove anything about her to others in your FOO. > > Is it wrong to tell her she has to seek counseling for BPD before she can > spend time alone with the kids? I know she won’t actually do it and if she > does she’ll probably tell the counselor she HAS to go but I’m the one that > is crazy. BPD/NPD can be very convincing to counselors that there is > nothing wrong with them. . . > > It's not " wrong " to set any reasonable boundary you feel is necessary to protect your kids, but you may be pinning too much hope on counseling. You say she's not open to the idea, so you're probably right about how she'll deal with the counselor, so what's the point? The only reasonable outcome I can see is that she'll feed the counselor such a twisted view of the situation that the poor misinformed counselor will end up telling her that yes, YOU are the crazy one, and giving her ammunition to use against you with the rest of your FOO. My brother and I tried to force our Nada into counseling so that she would work on having a better relationship with us (that is, on not being so nasty to us so we wouldn't be so angry at her all the time), and she went three sessions and then quit. When I spoke to the counselor after she quit, I learned that she spent the whole time talking about how much she missed Dad (two years dead at that point) and didn't ONCE mention the topic of her lousy relationship with her kids and what she might do to improve it. She simply didn't talk about the problems we took her there to work on at ALL! You can lead a BPD to therapy but you can't make them drink, is what it comes down to. You have no authority in the therapist's office, and neither does the therapist -- your Nada will set the agenda and tone of the sessions and therefore will learn nothing from them. If you really want to let your Nada spend time with you and your kids, your best bet for improving her behavior and keeping it manageable is just to set clear, firm boundaries, and then enforce them rigorously and consistently. You can expect her to resist (and also to complain to the rest of the FOO how unfairly and badly you're treating her) but if your boundaries are firm,clear, fair, and reasonable, she won't be able to get much traction and there is a chance -- not a guarantee, but a chance -- that her behavior will slowly improve. I think the chances of counseling doing anything positive for her are nil so I really think you should concentrate on things that YOU have control over instead of hoping to find a " Nada whisperer " who can magically make your Nada behave. It's a good idea to try to keep the focus on what you, personally, can control about your relationship with your Nada instead of fretting about control others' view of her, or controlling your Nada yourself. You have some real power over your end of things, and no real power over other people, so it is likely to get enormously frustrating if you keep your focus on them, instead of you and your kids. Best of luck! Jen H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Thank you for your thoughts, , I'm sure you're right that counseling would be a waste of time. It will be hard going from her wanting to " talk things through " which would be like beating my head against a brick wall to actually having the boundaries in place. I know it will be a big fight for the next couple months as she whines, complains and rages about my decisions to protect myself. (As you all are dealing with) it is mind blowing to try to deal with a person who cannot see their actions as bad or inappropriate. The recent posts about them being 5 year olds is really helpful to keep in mind because I have a 5 year old now and she is not capable of rational thought or self-improvement. Wow. . .I had to be the parent to her when I was a kid and now I literally have to parent my nada for the rest of her life. jwjrenslow@... Re: Re: Where and how to start? Hi -- Right now no one but me is sure about the BPD and > I don't want my FOO to think I'm being harsh. Is it wrong to bait her into > behaving badly for others to see so I feel more justified? > I understand the desire to get the goods on your Nada so others see her the way you do, but honestly I think you should not worry about that. If your Nada is anything like mine, she is (usually) under sufficiently tight control around people outside of myself and my brother and his family that they are always going to have a very difficult time believing how badly she treats you, and you can waste a lot of time and effort on this task when really, it doesn't matter whether or not anyone else thinks you're being " harsh. " You have to do what you have to do to protect yourself and your kids. I'm not urging you to return viciousness for viciousness or anything, but if you feel the need to set and enforce boundaries you should DO that, and don't worry about what others in the FOO think. They're may be FOGged or possibly even flying monkeys anyway, and highly motivated to make excuses for her to try to keep the family balance from shifting. I would suggest trying to stop worrying about justifying yourself or how you'll look to others and just concentrating on setting and maintaining firm, clear, needed boundaries with your Nada to keep her bad behavior from damaging you. If the others in your FOO question it, you can deflect them with neutral statements like " This is just where I need to be with Mom for a while, thanks for your concern, " and then drop it. (If they persist you can go with something more pointed like, " This is between me and Mom, and we need to work it out between us. Thanks for the concern, but I'd prefer it if you stayed out of it. " And if that doesn't work, you can always try, " Butt OUT! " ) Remember that one of the crazy-making things about a lot of BPDs is how they CAN behave normally around " outsiders " while still being horrible to their nearest and dearest. Don't expect that you'll necessarily be able to prove anything about her to others in your FOO. > > Is it wrong to tell her she has to seek counseling for BPD before she can > spend time alone with the kids? I know she won't actually do it and if she > does she'll probably tell the counselor she HAS to go but I'm the one that > is crazy. BPD/NPD can be very convincing to counselors that there is > nothing wrong with them. . . > > It's not " wrong " to set any reasonable boundary you feel is necessary to protect your kids, but you may be pinning too much hope on counseling. You say she's not open to the idea, so you're probably right about how she'll deal with the counselor, so what's the point? The only reasonable outcome I can see is that she'll feed the counselor such a twisted view of the situation that the poor misinformed counselor will end up telling her that yes, YOU are the crazy one, and giving her ammunition to use against you with the rest of your FOO. My brother and I tried to force our Nada into counseling so that she would work on having a better relationship with us (that is, on not being so nasty to us so we wouldn't be so angry at her all the time), and she went three sessions and then quit. When I spoke to the counselor after she quit, I learned that she spent the whole time talking about how much she missed Dad (two years dead at that point) and didn't ONCE mention the topic of her lousy relationship with her kids and what she might do to improve it. She simply didn't talk about the problems we took her there to work on at ALL! You can lead a BPD to therapy but you can't make them drink, is what it comes down to. You have no authority in the therapist's office, and neither does the therapist -- your Nada will set the agenda and tone of the sessions and therefore will learn nothing from them. If you really want to let your Nada spend time with you and your kids, your best bet for improving her behavior and keeping it manageable is just to set clear, firm boundaries, and then enforce them rigorously and consistently. You can expect her to resist (and also to complain to the rest of the FOO how unfairly and badly you're treating her) but if your boundaries are firm,clear, fair, and reasonable, she won't be able to get much traction and there is a chance -- not a guarantee, but a chance -- that her behavior will slowly improve. I think the chances of counseling doing anything positive for her are nil so I really think you should concentrate on things that YOU have control over instead of hoping to find a " Nada whisperer " who can magically make your Nada behave. It's a good idea to try to keep the focus on what you, personally, can control about your relationship with your Nada instead of fretting about control others' view of her, or controlling your Nada yourself. You have some real power over your end of things, and no real power over other people, so it is likely to get enormously frustrating if you keep your focus on them, instead of you and your kids. Best of luck! Jen H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I'm grateful I/we don't get exposed to the " God card. " My nada, in typical bpd fashion, uses " splitting " and the whole black/white/categorizing thing to dislike religious folks, Republicans, etc... Hey, I know, maybe you could God-speak her right back? Tell her that God told you something different than what she heard.... no, that would probably just be mean. It gets creepy when our mom's get all nicey-nicey, doesn't it? They act " healthy " and then get angry/upset/frustrated (putting the guilt back on you) when you don't jump on board and join them in their new-found emotional health. I'm so leery of my mom's " healthy " attitudes that it's almost easier when she's not that way. Someone wrote to me earlier, I believe in this same post, that at some point it just absolutely has to be about YOU (us), not them. For today, I'm focused on examining the FOG that I've lived under --- but also very focused on how I raise my daughter. We had a little family blow-up last night and it was so awesome to facilitate -- yes, ME!! I facilitated this --- the whole family coming together, everyone apologizing to everyone else, everyone genuinely accepting those apologies, putting our arms around each other and saying, " it's okay, we're a family, we all get crabby sometimes, let's try to be more gentle with each other... " It felt so positive and amazing and GENUINELY emotionally healthy. Were some of us still a little wounded? Sure, but none of it was taken out on anyone else and I think that's key. > > > > > > > > > From: Johanna > > > Subject: Where and how to start? > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > > Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. > Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her > emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my > wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like > you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on > boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the > experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so > has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, > there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some > kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe > not? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Congratulations on your healthy family dispute!!! That is such a WIN for your family. Don’t get depressed if the next one isn’t so healthy, you’re on the right track and it is hard to “train” everyone to respond respectfully and expect others too. (We’re not there yet, but we try!) I would rather her be crazy all the time then try to deflect the waif trying to get me to be her friend again. That is an exhausting land mine filled journey!!! jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@... _____ From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Johanna Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:00 AM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: Where and how to start? I'm grateful I/we don't get exposed to the " God card. " My nada, in typical bpd fashion, uses " splitting " and the whole black/white/categorizing thing to dislike religious folks, Republicans, etc... Hey, I know, maybe you could God-speak her right back? Tell her that God told you something different than what she heard.... no, that would probably just be mean. It gets creepy when our mom's get all nicey-nicey, doesn't it? They act " healthy " and then get angry/upset/frustrated (putting the guilt back on you) when you don't jump on board and join them in their new-found emotional health. I'm so leery of my mom's " healthy " attitudes that it's almost easier when she's not that way. Someone wrote to me earlier, I believe in this same post, that at some point it just absolutely has to be about YOU (us), not them. For today, I'm focused on examining the FOG that I've lived under --- but also very focused on how I raise my daughter. We had a little family blow-up last night and it was so awesome to facilitate -- yes, ME!! I facilitated this --- the whole family coming together, everyone apologizing to everyone else, everyone genuinely accepting those apologies, putting our arms around each other and saying, " it's okay, we're a family, we all get crabby sometimes, let's try to be more gentle with each other... " It felt so positive and amazing and GENUINELY emotionally healthy. Were some of us still a little wounded? Sure, but none of it was taken out on anyone else and I think that's key. > > > > > > > > > From: Johanna > > > Subject: Where and how to start? > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > > Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:06 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > I just told my mom (via email - yikes!) that I think she's got BPD. > Now...I'm scared. This of course comes on the heels of decades of her > emotional baloney most recently topped off with her getting drunk at my > wedding and telling my husband that " you know, I'm not really sure I like > you all that much... "  I'm scared. I'm reading SWOE and I'm working on > boundaries -- all superbly supported by my husband who does not have the > experience of 30+ years of her crossing over the simplest boundaries and so > has very little tolerance for her BS. Like all of our stories, I'm sure, > there's so much more to it -- -but what I need right now is perhaps some > kind words that I'm doing or have done the right thing --- maybe....or maybe > not? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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