Re: More Wedding issues... again.

[Guest guest]

If I were you I'd be done with her and move on!!!! Good luck.

> Back in the spring, some of you might remember there was a huge debackle over

my mother in regard to the mother-son dance. This was due to my fiance's father

not being willing to dance (religious reasons), and also my fiance does not have

a very good relationship with her father over some abuse when she was a child.

That got resolved by the DJ suggesting a compromise in which she only dances

with me for half a song alone and then the rest of the people are asked to come

dance as well. Well that was resolved back in April.

>

> During that fight she had taken away the prospect of her participating in

doing anything with the unity candle. Once the dance was resolved she did not

every mention about wanting to do the candle again. She has gone back and forth

on taking things away and giving back forever on anything she can when she is

upset and trying to inflict damage. We saw this as an opportunity to now create

this boundary that she is no longer able to do this with us. Well let's say she

is not really taking this well and has now torn every fight over the past year

open as a result of this.

>

> This subject was actually brought up to her in late July/ early Auguest. Her

reaction then wasn't stellar but eventually faded into the background. Her new

desire to inflict pain over this comes after I asked my sister to do a reading

during the ceremony. She is currently seeing that both since the dance was

resolved I should have assumed her lighting a candle was back on, and also that

I caused her to resort to her not doing the candle from how I handled the dance.

I explained the setting of boundaries with my dad. He doesn't see it as really a

boundary but simply myself being stubborn.

>

> From digging into everything and just taking it on the phone for a long time

yesterday, I eventually pointed out that I am not asking her for apologies for

some of the very hurtful things she had brought up during the spring. One of the

very inappropriate things she had brought up concerned something I am very

ashamed of and is too embarrassing for me to discuss here. It is something she

knows upsets me everytime it is mentioned. I am 30 years old now and it is

something that occured when I was 16 or 17. I gave her a warning yesterday on

the phone that if she was to ever bring the topic up again, that me and her were

done.

>

> Well here is a portion of the email I got from her today:

> " The things I've said to you, - well, as far as bringing up issues from

the fall of '99 - the ONLY reason I brought this up this time was THIS : And

listen closely. You come off like you suffered back then. Maybe you regret back

then. " I " was the ONE WHO SUFFERED BACK THEN. And wanna know something, -

I STILL suffer from it. I get to discuss it with therapist because I have

problems YET that will NEVER go away because of the Fall of '99. But you never

want to hear about them. EVERYTHING is about YOU. I did nothing wrong then. But

I am the one STILL SUFFERING. Sometime ASK me what issues I have and I'll tell

you. As far as " damaging your psyche " , that is something on you. I can forgive

you till the cows come home, but it doesn't stop the damage you did to MY

psyche, Chris. The damage that will never go away. And you are GOING to have to

LIVE WITH IT........... The reason I brought it UP - when the whole business of

the dance was being " shut down by you " , and you would NOT discuss it with me was

this : NOT to hurt you. It was to say, " you have put me through a lot in

your short life. And you don't seem to remember that . And now you want to do

more by taking an HONOR away from me. There are a lot of guys who go through

" stages " growing up. And girls. Nothing to be ashamed of. The only bad thing you

did was involve " me " indirectly in it, which tore up MY PSYCHE - which you had a

VERY bad lack of judgement. No self-control and left me feeling, well you never

let me tell you. But you need to know sometime. And you upset the two things

that were the most precious. The tears are rolling down my face while I'm

writing this. As I said, if you feel badly over that part of your life, well,

it's a growth process and nothing to be ashamed of, and PG probably did it to

you. They suck down there. But your mistake was dragging me into it and screwing

me up, which I don't think you ever accounted for and ALWAYS shut me down that

we can't talk about it ? I was a victim, whether you get that or not. So I am

NOT trying to screw with your damn PSYCHE and GET OVER IT ! But we need to TALK

sometime about that time. Just you and me. It isn't going away for me. Just like

it will never go away for me that business with my father and the shower in

Atlantic City. When something gets " branded " on you like that - I'm like a

steer, and it stays there. "

>

> I there any recommendations you have for me or other insights? Thanks!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Creed --

I'm not sure what kind of insights you're after here, but my feeling after

reading this email is that you should B.I.F.F. her on this, if you choose

to answer the email at all. B.I.F.F. is a way of dealing with hostile

communications from " high conflict people " (which all borderlines are, by

definition), described by Bill Eddy here:

http://www.billeddy.com/articles/hostile_email.htm

" BIFF " stands for " Brief, Informative, Friendly and Firm " and is a style of

communication that works well with people determined to pick fights in

their communication style, which this certainly looks to me.

Best,

Jen H.

> **

>

>

> Back in the spring, some of you might remember there was a huge debackle

> over my mother in regard to the mother-son dance. This was due to my

> fiance's father not being willing to dance (religious reasons), and also my

> fiance does not have a very good relationship with her father over some

> abuse when she was a child. That got resolved by the DJ suggesting a

> compromise in which she only dances with me for half a song alone and then

> the rest of the people are asked to come dance as well. Well that was

> resolved back in April.

>

> During that fight she had taken away the prospect of her participating in

> doing anything with the unity candle. Once the dance was resolved she did

> not every mention about wanting to do the candle again. She has gone back

> and forth on taking things away and giving back forever on anything she can

> when she is upset and trying to inflict damage. We saw this as an

> opportunity to now create this boundary that she is no longer able to do

> this with us. Well let's say she is not really taking this well and has now

> torn every fight over the past year open as a result of this.

>

> This subject was actually brought up to her in late July/ early Auguest.

> Her reaction then wasn't stellar but eventually faded into the background.

> Her new desire to inflict pain over this comes after I asked my sister to

> do a reading during the ceremony. She is currently seeing that both since

> the dance was resolved I should have assumed her lighting a candle was back

> on, and also that I caused her to resort to her not doing the candle from

> how I handled the dance. I explained the setting of boundaries with my dad.

> He doesn't see it as really a boundary but simply myself being stubborn.

>

> From digging into everything and just taking it on the phone for a long

> time yesterday, I eventually pointed out that I am not asking her for

> apologies for some of the very hurtful things she had brought up during the

> spring. One of the very inappropriate things she had brought up concerned

> something I am very ashamed of and is too embarrassing for me to discuss

> here. It is something she knows upsets me everytime it is mentioned. I am

> 30 years old now and it is something that occured when I was 16 or 17. I

> gave her a warning yesterday on the phone that if she was to ever bring the

> topic up again, that me and her were done.

>

> Well here is a portion of the email I got from her today:

> " The things I've said to you, - well, as far as bringing up issues

> from the fall of '99 - the ONLY reason I brought this up this time was THIS

> : And listen closely. You come off like you suffered back then. Maybe you

> regret back then. " I " was the ONE WHO SUFFERED BACK THEN. And wanna know

> something, - I STILL suffer from it. I get to discuss it with

> therapist because I have problems YET that will NEVER go away because of

> the Fall of '99. But you never want to hear about them. EVERYTHING is about

> YOU. I did nothing wrong then. But I am the one STILL SUFFERING. Sometime

> ASK me what issues I have and I'll tell you. As far as " damaging your

> psyche " , that is something on you. I can forgive you till the cows come

> home, but it doesn't stop the damage you did to MY psyche, Chris. The

> damage that will never go away. And you are GOING to have to LIVE WITH

> IT........... The reason I brought it UP - when the whole business of the

> dance was being " shut down by you " , and you would NOT discuss it with me

> was this : NOT to hurt you. It was to say, " you have put me through

> a lot in your short life. And you don't seem to remember that . And now you

> want to do more by taking an HONOR away from me. There are a lot of guys

> who go through " stages " growing up. And girls. Nothing to be ashamed of.

> The only bad thing you did was involve " me " indirectly in it, which tore up

> MY PSYCHE - which you had a VERY bad lack of judgement. No self-control and

> left me feeling, well you never let me tell you. But you need to know

> sometime. And you upset the two things that were the most precious. The

> tears are rolling down my face while I'm writing this. As I said, if you

> feel badly over that part of your life, well, it's a growth process and

> nothing to be ashamed of, and PG probably did it to you. They suck down

> there. But your mistake was dragging me into it and screwing me up, which I

> don't think you ever accounted for and ALWAYS shut me down that we can't

> talk about it ? I was a victim, whether you get that or not. So I am NOT

> trying to screw with your damn PSYCHE and GET OVER IT ! But we need to TALK

> sometime about that time. Just you and me. It isn't going away for me. Just

> like it will never go away for me that business with my father and the

> shower in Atlantic City. When something gets " branded " on you like that -

> I'm like a steer, and it stays there. "

>

> I there any recommendations you have for me or other insights? Thanks!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So, am I understanding correctly that your (I'm guessing narcissistic pd) mother

brought up an incident that you *specifically* told her that if she ever brought

it up again, you were done with her for good?

And she wrote you and brought up this very same specific incident in the e-mail,

in defiance of your ultimatum, it would appear?

Then, that is your golden ticket, if you want it to be. You do not have to

respond to any contact attempts from your npd mother, ever again. She crossed

the line. She's out. You've given her MORE than three strikes, seems to me.

If you want to follow through on your ultimatum, that is.

Its hard to wrap our brains around the concept that we can change their

behaviors. Nothing we can possibly say or do can " make " them change. All we

can do is decide which behaviors of their's we will or will not tolerate.

Ultimatums usually don't work; usually a personality-disordered individual who

is very domineering and forceful (The Queen or Witch type) will just view an

ultimatum as an interesting challenge and bulldoze over it. Unless you really,

firmly mean it. The lesson is, I suppose, never issue an ultimatum unless you

are prepared ahead of time to actually carry it out. I think ultimatums should

be saved as a last-ditch, last-resort kind of thing.

My suggestion (and you have to do what feels right and workable for YOU) is to

ignore the e-mail, because you are now " done. "

-Annie

>

> Back in the spring, some of you might remember there was a huge debackle over

my mother in regard to the mother-son dance. This was due to my fiance's father

not being willing to dance (religious reasons), and also my fiance does not have

a very good relationship with her father over some abuse when she was a child.

That got resolved by the DJ suggesting a compromise in which she only dances

with me for half a song alone and then the rest of the people are asked to come

dance as well. Well that was resolved back in April.

>

> During that fight she had taken away the prospect of her participating in

doing anything with the unity candle. Once the dance was resolved she did not

every mention about wanting to do the candle again. She has gone back and forth

on taking things away and giving back forever on anything she can when she is

upset and trying to inflict damage. We saw this as an opportunity to now create

this boundary that she is no longer able to do this with us. Well let's say she

is not really taking this well and has now torn every fight over the past year

open as a result of this.

>

> This subject was actually brought up to her in late July/ early Auguest. Her

reaction then wasn't stellar but eventually faded into the background. Her new

desire to inflict pain over this comes after I asked my sister to do a reading

during the ceremony. She is currently seeing that both since the dance was

resolved I should have assumed her lighting a candle was back on, and also that

I caused her to resort to her not doing the candle from how I handled the dance.

I explained the setting of boundaries with my dad. He doesn't see it as really a

boundary but simply myself being stubborn.

>

> From digging into everything and just taking it on the phone for a long time

yesterday, I eventually pointed out that I am not asking her for apologies for

some of the very hurtful things she had brought up during the spring. One of

the very inappropriate things she had brought up concerned something I am very

ashamed of and is too embarrassing for me to discuss here. It is something she

knows upsets me everytime it is mentioned. I am 30 years old now and it is

something that occured when I was 16 or 17. I gave her a warning yesterday on

the phone that if she was to ever bring the topic up again, that me and her were

done.

>

> Well here is a portion of the email I got from her today:

> " The things I've said to you, - well, as far as bringing up issues from

the fall of '99 - the ONLY reason I brought this up this time was THIS : And

listen closely. You come off like you suffered back then. Maybe you regret back

then. " I " was the ONE WHO SUFFERED BACK THEN. And wanna know something, -

I STILL suffer from it. I get to discuss it with therapist because I have

problems YET that will NEVER go away because of the Fall of '99. But you never

want to hear about them. EVERYTHING is about YOU. I did nothing wrong then. But

I am the one STILL SUFFERING. Sometime ASK me what issues I have and I'll tell

you. As far as " damaging your psyche " , that is something on you. I can forgive

you till the cows come home, but it doesn't stop the damage you did to MY

psyche, Chris. The damage that will never go away. And you are GOING to have to

LIVE WITH IT........... The reason I brought it UP - when the whole business

of the dance was being " shut down by you " , and you would NOT discuss it with me

was this : NOT to hurt you. It was to say, " you have put me through a

lot in your short life. And you don't seem to remember that . And now you want

to do more by taking an HONOR away from me. There are a lot of guys who go

through " stages " growing up. And girls. Nothing to be ashamed of. The only bad

thing you did was involve " me " indirectly in it, which tore up MY PSYCHE - which

you had a VERY bad lack of judgement. No self-control and left me feeling, well

you never let me tell you. But you need to know sometime. And you upset the two

things that were the most precious. The tears are rolling down my face while I'm

writing this. As I said, if you feel badly over that part of your life, well,

it's a growth process and nothing to be ashamed of, and PG probably did it to

you. They suck down there. But your mistake was dragging me into it and screwing

me up, which I don't think you ever accounted for and ALWAYS shut me down that

we can't talk about it ? I was a victim, whether you get that or not. So I am

NOT trying to screw with your damn PSYCHE and GET OVER IT ! But we need to TALK

sometime about that time. Just you and me. It isn't going away for me. Just like

it will never go away for me that business with my father and the shower in

Atlantic City. When something gets " branded " on you like that - I'm like a

steer, and it stays there. "

>

> I there any recommendations you have for me or other insights? Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

Eek! That is a big typo I made that changed the point I wanted to make: what I

meant to write is: " Its hard to wrap our brains around the concept that we

CANNOT change their behaviors. "

Sometimes when we create and maintain firm boundaries, our bpd parent will

decide for himself or herself to change, but, its not a guarantee. In fact,

sometimes creating and enforcing firm but reasonable adult boundaries results in

worse behavior by the individual with the pd.

So, its totally up to you; when you decide what you will and will not tolerate,

then enforcing your decisions will feel easier and clearer for you.

-Annie

>

> So, am I understanding correctly that your (I'm guessing narcissistic pd)

mother brought up an incident that you *specifically* told her that if she ever

brought it up again, you were done with her for good?

>

> And she wrote you and brought up this very same specific incident in the

e-mail, in defiance of your ultimatum, it would appear?

>

> Then, that is your golden ticket, if you want it to be. You do not have to

respond to any contact attempts from your npd mother, ever again. She crossed

the line. She's out. You've given her MORE than three strikes, seems to me.

If you want to follow through on your ultimatum, that is.

>

> Its hard to wrap our brains around the concept that we can change their

behaviors. Nothing we can possibly say or do can " make " them change. All we

can do is decide which behaviors of their's we will or will not tolerate.

>

> Ultimatums usually don't work; usually a personality-disordered individual who

is very domineering and forceful (The Queen or Witch type) will just view an

ultimatum as an interesting challenge and bulldoze over it. Unless you really,

firmly mean it. The lesson is, I suppose, never issue an ultimatum unless you

are prepared ahead of time to actually carry it out. I think ultimatums should

be saved as a last-ditch, last-resort kind of thing.

>

> My suggestion (and you have to do what feels right and workable for YOU) is to

ignore the e-mail, because you are now " done. "

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

Looks like an email that only a bpd could write. I'd be done with her for good

Subject: Re: More Wedding issues... again.

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Monday, October 1, 2012, 12:51 AM

 

So, am I understanding correctly that your (I'm guessing narcissistic pd) mother

brought up an incident that you *specifically* told her that if she ever brought

it up again, you were done with her for good?

And she wrote you and brought up this very same specific incident in the e-mail,

in defiance of your ultimatum, it would appear?

Then, that is your golden ticket, if you want it to be. You do not have to

respond to any contact attempts from your npd mother, ever again. She crossed

the line. She's out. You've given her MORE than three strikes, seems to me. If

you want to follow through on your ultimatum, that is.

Its hard to wrap our brains around the concept that we can change their

behaviors. Nothing we can possibly say or do can " make " them change. All we can

do is decide which behaviors of their's we will or will not tolerate.

Ultimatums usually don't work; usually a personality-disordered individual who

is very domineering and forceful (The Queen or Witch type) will just view an

ultimatum as an interesting challenge and bulldoze over it. Unless you really,

firmly mean it. The lesson is, I suppose, never issue an ultimatum unless you

are prepared ahead of time to actually carry it out. I think ultimatums should

be saved as a last-ditch, last-resort kind of thing.

My suggestion (and you have to do what feels right and workable for YOU) is to

ignore the e-mail, because you are now " done. "

-Annie

>

> Back in the spring, some of you might remember there was a huge debackle over

my mother in regard to the mother-son dance. This was due to my fiance's father

not being willing to dance (religious reasons), and also my fiance does not have

a very good relationship with her father over some abuse when she was a child.

That got resolved by the DJ suggesting a compromise in which she only dances

with me for half a song alone and then the rest of the people are asked to come

dance as well. Well that was resolved back in April.

>

> During that fight she had taken away the prospect of her participating in

doing anything with the unity candle. Once the dance was resolved she did not

every mention about wanting to do the candle again. She has gone back and forth

on taking things away and giving back forever on anything she can when she is

upset and trying to inflict damage. We saw this as an opportunity to now create

this boundary that she is no longer able to do this with us. Well let's say she

is not really taking this well and has now torn every fight over the past year

open as a result of this.

>

> This subject was actually brought up to her in late July/ early Auguest. Her

reaction then wasn't stellar but eventually faded into the background. Her new

desire to inflict pain over this comes after I asked my sister to do a reading

during the ceremony. She is currently seeing that both since the dance was

resolved I should have assumed her lighting a candle was back on, and also that

I caused her to resort to her not doing the candle from how I handled the dance.

I explained the setting of boundaries with my dad. He doesn't see it as really a

boundary but simply myself being stubborn.

>

> From digging into everything and just taking it on the phone for a long time

yesterday, I eventually pointed out that I am not asking her for apologies for

some of the very hurtful things she had brought up during the spring. One of the

very inappropriate things she had brought up concerned something I am very

ashamed of and is too embarrassing for me to discuss here. It is something she

knows upsets me everytime it is mentioned. I am 30 years old now and it is

something that occured when I was 16 or 17. I gave her a warning yesterday on

the phone that if she was to ever bring the topic up again, that me and her were

done.

>

> Well here is a portion of the email I got from her today:

> " The things I've said to you, - well, as far as bringing up issues from

the fall of '99 - the ONLY reason I brought this up this time was THIS : And

listen closely. You come off like you suffered back then. Maybe you regret back

then. " I " was the ONE WHO SUFFERED BACK THEN. And wanna know something, -

I STILL suffer from it. I get to discuss it with therapist because I have

problems YET that will NEVER go away because of the Fall of '99. But you never

want to hear about them. EVERYTHING is about YOU. I did nothing wrong then. But

I am the one STILL SUFFERING. Sometime ASK me what issues I have and I'll tell

you. As far as " damaging your psyche " , that is something on you. I can forgive

you till the cows come home, but it doesn't stop the damage you did to MY

psyche, Chris. The damage that will never go away. And you are GOING to have to

LIVE WITH IT........... The reason I brought it UP - when the whole business of

the dance was being " shut

down by you " , and you would NOT discuss it with me was this : NOT to hurt you.

It was to say, " you have put me through a lot in your short life. And you

don't seem to remember that . And now you want to do more by taking an HONOR

away from me. There are a lot of guys who go through " stages " growing up. And

girls. Nothing to be ashamed of. The only bad thing you did was involve " me "

indirectly in it, which tore up MY PSYCHE - which you had a VERY bad lack of

judgement. No self-control and left me feeling, well you never let me tell you.

But you need to know sometime. And you upset the two things that were the most

precious. The tears are rolling down my face while I'm writing this. As I said,

if you feel badly over that part of your life, well, it's a growth process and

nothing to be ashamed of, and PG probably did it to you. They suck down there.

But your mistake was dragging me into it and screwing me up, which I don't think

you ever accounted

for and ALWAYS shut me down that we can't talk about it ? I was a victim,

whether you get that or not. So I am NOT trying to screw with your damn PSYCHE

and GET OVER IT ! But we need to TALK sometime about that time. Just you and me.

It isn't going away for me. Just like it will never go away for me that business

with my father and the shower in Atlantic City. When something gets " branded " on

you like that - I'm like a steer, and it stays there. "

>

> I there any recommendations you have for me or other insights? Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

I don t know whether to laugh or cry, Chris. Your nada is a waif. She

is always the victim, regardless. If something unpleasant happened to

you, then of course SHE was the victim because SHE is the mother, and no

one knows how a MOTHER s heart can hurt for her child.

Ever heard that bullshit before? I have. They cannot permit you to

experience the emotions attached to something you suffered, something to

which you were a victim. It s as though they saw you suffer, but the

only thing that registered is how that made them hurt. So YOU are

supposed to comfort THEM for experiencing YOUR pain. What shit. What

manipulative FOG.

Weddings and family dynamics can often be stressful and demanding. I

believe if I had been in your situation I would have suggested to my

blushing bride that we elope and get married away from these crazy

people. Dysfunctional people like this have to be the bride at every

wedding, the corpse at every funeral. They cannot let your special day

be your special day.

A friggin dance? Oh come on! I WANT MY DANCE AND I M THE MOTHER, HOW

DARE YOU DEPRIVE ME? Yea, right. At the end of the day, you only needed

to say I do, and have the official say ok, then you are married.

Everything else was fluff.

My own nada was going to Parents Without Partners for socializing, after

I was already grown and married. She FOGged me into going to what was, I

found, a dance, with her. She insisted that I dance with her just once.

Shit! She ended up finding her second husband there, a loser who was

closer to my age than to hers.

Everything with them is all about them. Her email to you was simply an

attack, meant to FOG you, hurt you, make you feel guilty. We KO s

battle guilt our entire lives over impossible situations that we could

not control, and survived and dealt with the best we could.

You asked for suggestions? First you must ask yourself, free of FOG and

guilt, and what you think " everyone " considers the right answer.

Do you want a relationship with her? If not, then go NC. If you do,

then you must establish safe and very firm boundaries with her, and you

must always be the adult. That means you will have to enforce them, you

will have to call her on it and cut off contact if she attacks you, you

will have to make your own mental health priority one.

It is not easy, brother, I can assure you. But you must be the one to

make your health and happiness a priortity. She will never, ever, do so.

Good luck.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Too true, Annie. I ll go one step further, it is a terrible thing for us

to finally come to terms with the fact that in any relationship with

them, we must always be the adult. They never were. Not when we were

children, not now that we are adults. We were always expected to meet

their needs, soothe their boo boos, wipe their tears, comfort their

fears.

We never got to be children. We were like war orphans, taking care of

the younger children around us. Only the younger children were our

mothers.

It s very sad.

Doug

> >

> > So, am I understanding correctly that your (I'm guessing

narcissistic pd) mother brought up an incident that you *specifically*

told her that if she ever brought it up again, you were done with her

for good?

> >

> > And she wrote you and brought up this very same specific incident in

the e-mail, in defiance of your ultimatum, it would appear?

> >

> > Then, that is your golden ticket, if you want it to be. You do not

have to respond to any contact attempts from your npd mother, ever

again. She crossed the line. She's out. You've given her MORE than three

strikes, seems to me. If you want to follow through on your ultimatum,

that is.

> >

> > Its hard to wrap our brains around the concept that we can change

their behaviors. Nothing we can possibly say or do can " make " them

change. All we can do is decide which behaviors of their's we will or

will not tolerate.

> >

> > Ultimatums usually don't work; usually a personality-disordered

individual who is very domineering and forceful (The Queen or Witch

type) will just view an ultimatum as an interesting challenge and

bulldoze over it. Unless you really, firmly mean it. The lesson is, I

suppose, never issue an ultimatum unless you are prepared ahead of time

to actually carry it out. I think ultimatums should be saved as a

last-ditch, last-resort kind of thing.

> >

> > My suggestion (and you have to do what feels right and workable for

YOU) is to ignore the e-mail, because you are now " done. "

> >

> > -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

This is so true. When my sister was growing up (she's twenty

years younger than me), she and my nada lived next to me because

I thought it was necessary for my sister to have a sane adult

nearby. A long-time friend who knew all of us pointed out to me

that I should adjust to the fact that I had two children living

next door to me that I needed to take care of and that one of

them was much more mature than the other. The " mature " one was

my sister who was about 13 at the time. She really hit the nail

on the head.

At 09:27 AM 10/01/2012 Doug wrote:

>Too true, Annie. I ll go one step further, it is a terrible

>thing for us

>to finally come to terms with the fact that in any relationship

>with

>them, we must always be the adult. They never were. Not when

>we were

>children, not now that we are adults. We were always expected

>to meet

>their needs, soothe their boo boos, wipe their tears, comfort

>their

>fears.

>

>We never got to be children. We were like war orphans, taking

>care of

>the younger children around us. Only the younger children were

>our

>mothers.

>

>It s very sad.

>

>Doug

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Wow. I noticed how she made the whole '99 issues and the whole disccusions about

the wedding _all about her_. So typical for BPD. I see that several people have

said they would go NC, but I'm of a little different thought. If it were me, I

would 'take a break' meaning NC for two months.

I would write her a letter, telling her the behavior she has demonstrated over

the several months is poor and not productive to the positive

discussion/planning of this very important event of YOUR life. Explain she had

violated the boundary of bringing up the issue of '99 again after you

permanently tabled it, you two had been very clear about the topic, thus her act

of bringing it up again will result in a no contact period of 1 month. It will

begin today, todays-date, and I will call you on date-of-one-month. During this

time, do not attempt to contact me or violation of my boundary will result in an

additional 1 month of NC. This means: do not call me, do not call my wife, do

not come over to my house, to our works, to our daycare, etc. Do not approach my

wife, my kids, my car, my bike, etc. Do not vm, em, msg, txt, mail anything to

me or my wife or my kids, etc. Do not contact me for one month, I will call you

on the date-here.

She will try to violate the boundary. Do not engage when she calls, simply say

something like, 'Mother I am taking a break from the stress of your poor

behavior. I told you we would talk again in a month, but you contacting me is a

violation of my boundary as I told you before. This violation adds a month to

the no contact break period. I will call you then.' And hang up immediately. If

she shows up on your porch, answer the door and say the same as above, close the

door and lock it. Walk away. Stick to your guns.

Keep in mind, you will never make her satisfied w your wedding, or her role in

it. BP mothers think your wedding is supposed to be all about HONOR to her! You

might even enjoy a break from the chaos and drama!! Best of luck and wishing you

calm and peace!

[Guest guest]

That analogy really resonates with me. I used to wonder why I was always drawn

to and identified with literary and film characters who were orphans. Then

after learning about personality disorders, I thought of what had happened to me

as being " emotionally orphaned " . I'm just so grateful that my younger Sister

and I were able to overcome our childhood trauma enough to become real friends

as adults.

-Annie

>

>

> Too true, Annie. I ll go one step further, it is a terrible thing for us

> to finally come to terms with the fact that in any relationship with

> them, we must always be the adult. They never were. Not when we were

> children, not now that we are adults. We were always expected to meet

> their needs, soothe their boo boos, wipe their tears, comfort their

> fears.

>

> We never got to be children. We were like war orphans, taking care of

> the younger children around us. Only the younger children were our

> mothers.

>

> It s very sad.

>

> Doug

[Guest guest]

Good suggestions . I've been on a " break " from my nada and will be

seeing her again soon - I will also need to be strong in continuing to

expect her to respect my boundaries. :-)

jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Olds

Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:24 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: More Wedding issues... again.

Wow. I noticed how she made the whole '99 issues and the whole disccusions

about the wedding _all about her_. So typical for BPD. I see that several

people have said they would go NC, but I'm of a little different thought. If

it were me, I would 'take a break' meaning NC for two months.

I would write her a letter, telling her the behavior she has demonstrated

over the several months is poor and not productive to the positive

discussion/planning of this very important event of YOUR life. Explain she

had violated the boundary of bringing up the issue of '99 again after you

permanently tabled it, you two had been very clear about the topic, thus her

act of bringing it up again will result in a no contact period of 1 month.

It will begin today, todays-date, and I will call you on date-of-one-month.

During this time, do not attempt to contact me or violation of my boundary

will result in an additional 1 month of NC. This means: do not call me, do

not call my wife, do not come over to my house, to our works, to our

daycare, etc. Do not approach my wife, my kids, my car, my bike, etc. Do not

vm, em, msg, txt, mail anything to me or my wife or my kids, etc. Do not

contact me for one month, I will call you on the date-here.

She will try to violate the boundary. Do not engage when she calls, simply

say something like, 'Mother I am taking a break from the stress of your poor

behavior. I told you we would talk again in a month, but you contacting me

is a violation of my boundary as I told you before. This violation adds a

month to the no contact break period. I will call you then.' And hang up

immediately. If she shows up on your porch, answer the door and say the same

as above, close the door and lock it. Walk away. Stick to your guns.

Keep in mind, you will never make her satisfied w your wedding, or her role

in it. BP mothers think your wedding is supposed to be all about HONOR to

her! You might even enjoy a break from the chaos and drama!! Best of luck

and wishing you calm and peace!

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the advice. I am very much on board with this option in all ways

except the current timing. My fiance and my wedding is November 3rd. It leaves

me in the situation of the no contact for another month when she crosses the

line. Perfect for after the wedding though, granted there is then Thanksgiving,

which is slated with them this year and Christmas with my fiance's family. I

guess it is never a perfect time for anything. I need to I guess suck it up

sometimes and realize I will not be in a good situation ever with putting up

boundaries when it comes to seeing my dad and my sister, especially with

holidays.

>

> Wow. I noticed how she made the whole '99 issues and the whole disccusions

about the wedding _all about her_. So typical for BPD. I see that several people

have said they would go NC, but I'm of a little different thought. If it were

me, I would 'take a break' meaning NC for two months.

> I would write her a letter, telling her the behavior she has demonstrated over

the several months is poor and not productive to the positive

discussion/planning of this very important event of YOUR life. Explain she had

violated the boundary of bringing up the issue of '99 again after you

permanently tabled it, you two had been very clear about the topic, thus her act

of bringing it up again will result in a no contact period of 1 month. It will

begin today, todays-date, and I will call you on date-of-one-month. During this

time, do not attempt to contact me or violation of my boundary will result in an

additional 1 month of NC. This means: do not call me, do not call my wife, do

not come over to my house, to our works, to our daycare, etc. Do not approach my

wife, my kids, my car, my bike, etc. Do not vm, em, msg, txt, mail anything to

me or my wife or my kids, etc. Do not contact me for one month, I will call you

on the date-here.

> She will try to violate the boundary. Do not engage when she calls, simply say

something like, 'Mother I am taking a break from the stress of your poor

behavior. I told you we would talk again in a month, but you contacting me is a

violation of my boundary as I told you before. This violation adds a month to

the no contact break period. I will call you then.' And hang up immediately. If

she shows up on your porch, answer the door and say the same as above, close the

door and lock it. Walk away. Stick to your guns.

>

> Keep in mind, you will never make her satisfied w your wedding, or her role in

it. BP mothers think your wedding is supposed to be all about HONOR to her! You

might even enjoy a break from the chaos and drama!! Best of luck and wishing you

calm and peace!

>

>

>