Re: Gotta love the flying monkeys

[Guest guest]

Where does this idea about " being the bigger person " come from?

Was it invented by nadas? Almost any time I hear people using

that phrase, they're talking about someone giving in and

allowing abusive behavior as if that somehow is supposed to

indicate moral superiority. Usually the people talking about it

are not the people who are supposed to be doing it. Well guess

what, I don't think there's anything better about giving in to

an abuser. Being a victim doesn't make you morally superior. I

think the people who tell others to do that sort of thing are

often looking for a way to feel superior themselves and giving

other people advice to " be the bigger person " somehow makes them

feel like they're doing good by getting other people to follow

their advice.

It is understandable that this conversation triggered you. He

was sticking his nose in where it didn't belong in a way that

invalidated you. I think what I'd do in this particular

situation is state that this topic is off limits and that you

won't discuss it. I wouldn't make threats about leaving but I'd

have a plan for what to do if he insists on discussing it,

whether that is hanging up the phone, ignoring that portion of

his e-mails, cutting off contact completely or whatever else

works for you. If he wants to create drama out of your refusal

to do what he wants, let him create drama on his own, without

you.

At 11:05 AM 10/01/2012 afldancer wrote:

>I recently visited the one brother I have who typically doesnt

>get involved with nada's bullshit. If you recall, I've been NC

>for about 18 months now.

>

>When we were alone, he said

>

> " I'm only going to say this and nothing else, you need to fix

>this shit with mom. "

>

>To which I responded " Brother, I can't fix it. She has some

>serious isues that she needs to deal with. Until she does, I

>can't be in contact with her. "

>

> " She is working on it. "

>

> " Brother she threw stuff at me. She doesn't get a free pass to

>not have to apologize or explain herself. "

>

> " Well, someone has to be the bigger person. "

>

>Now, granted, he has no clue of all the abuse that went on,

>both physical and emotional, but in what world does a person

>think it's reasonable advice to tell someone they should

>continue enabling a family member to hurt them?

>

>The whole conversation totally triggered me, and I've been very

>upset ever since. Part of me wants to email him and say: if you

>bring this up again, I will leave. But I also knw that will

>just make drama. I know that in practice, that's what I will

>do.

>

>I just need some reassurance.

>

>Thanks all.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

(((((Alfdancer)))))

I read this all too often at another Group I belong to for the adult children of

narcissistic pd parents (I think my nada was both npd and bpd) that the

personality disordered parent will treat one of her children VERY differently

than the other(s), as in, one is the " golden child " and the other is the

" scapegoat child. "

The treatment of each child can be so differently that its as though the

children grow up in two different households. (From the reading I've done it

appears that the gender of the child has a bearing on this as well, depending on

the pd parent's view of the child's gender.)

If your brother was the " golden " one, then as you were both growing up he

probably viewed the horrid way you were treated through your nada's eyes, so to

speak. It was " normal " for nada to treat you harshly and you " deserved it. "

However if your brother is something of a narcissist, then he basically did not

care then and does not care now about how you were and are treated, he doesn't

care about your feelings, he only cares about the impact that an upset, whining,

clinging, demanding nada has on his own life. Perhaps he simply doesn't want

to be the only one stuck with nada and wants you to " resume the position " as

chief punching bag. Or perhaps he's feeling like nada's " protector " .

In any case, you are not obligated to manage either your nada's feelings for

her, or your brother's feelings for him. If your brother is having difficulties

with your nada, then its up to him to set his own boundaries with her. He

doesn't get to " assign " you to be the " nada wrangler. " If your nada is

pressuring and pressuring your brother to speak to you and pressure YOU, (that

is definitely the very definition of a " flying monkey " ) then its OK to remind

your brother that he too can say something like, " Sorry, but I'm not going to

discuss my sister with you, mom. If there is a problem between the two of you,

that's for you to work out together. "

And its OK (if you want to) for you to remind him that this issue is between

your nada and you, you're not going to put him in the middle of it, not going to

pressure him to be the arbitrator or to intercede for you, that you are an adult

and will handle your own problems.

-Annie

>

> I recently visited the one brother I have who typically doesnt get involved

with nada's bullshit. If you recall, I've been NC for about 18 months now.

>

> When we were alone, he said

>

> " I'm only going to say this and nothing else, you need to fix this shit with

mom. "

>

> To which I responded " Brother, I can't fix it. She has some serious isues that

she needs to deal with. Until she does, I can't be in contact with her. "

>

> " She is working on it. "

>

> " Brother she threw stuff at me. She doesn't get a free pass to not have to

apologize or explain herself. "

>

> " Well, someone has to be the bigger person. "

>

> Now, granted, he has no clue of all the abuse that went on, both physical and

emotional, but in what world does a person think it's reasonable advice to tell

someone they should continue enabling a family member to hurt them?

>

> The whole conversation totally triggered me, and I've been very upset ever

since. Part of me wants to email him and say: if you bring this up again, I will

leave. But I also knw that will just make drama. I know that in practice, that's

what I will do.

>

> I just need some reassurance.

>

> Thanks all.

>

[Guest guest]

I have a brother that thinks the same way. That's because they are used to

being the Flying Monkey and making sure Mommy is taken care of. I think,

also, there is a natural tendency for a son to want to take care of his

mother and most men can't handle the tears and victim modes women go into so

he sees her in pain and victimized and you are the one she is blaming so you

need to stop it - he doesn't want the details, just make it stop. Again, my

brother has said the same stuff to me and I feel for his perspective even

though it is BS.

In this context, yes, he is asking you to suck it up and remain hurt and not

expect her to change by " being the bigger person. " That is not going to

work for you or your crazy nada and I think the e-mail sent about

taking a break is a good suggestion for you. I am doing that with my nada.

I would prefer to go completely NC but I just discovered BPD and I want to

give her an opportunity to follow my boundaries so that I feel better about

going NC altogether when she fails. In this respect I am trying to " be the

bigger person " by giving her an opportunity to change the way she speaks to

me. If I just write her off then everyone watching will think that I am

just being the victim and not handling it in a mature way, and at this point

she sincerely does not know what she is doing wrong because barbed comments

and abusive behaviors are like breathing air - how can she stop? No, I

shouldn't care what people think - but I would feel better confirming she is

incapable. I don't think I'm being " superior " only more mature by not

acting like a child and throwing a tantrum myself over her behavior - but

taking mature steps to let her know what I think is inappropriate and giving

her an opportunity to change.

If she is being physically abusive you may need to be NC with your nada to

protect yourself. It is frustrating to have to deal with your brother, but

if you've explained it and he doesn't get it you may need a break from him

too.

jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Katrina

Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:45 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Gotta love the flying monkeys

Where does this idea about " being the bigger person " come from?

Was it invented by nadas? Almost any time I hear people using

that phrase, they're talking about someone giving in and

allowing abusive behavior as if that somehow is supposed to

indicate moral superiority. Usually the people talking about it

are not the people who are supposed to be doing it. Well guess

what, I don't think there's anything better about giving in to

an abuser. Being a victim doesn't make you morally superior. I

think the people who tell others to do that sort of thing are

often looking for a way to feel superior themselves and giving

other people advice to " be the bigger person " somehow makes them

feel like they're doing good by getting other people to follow

their advice.

It is understandable that this conversation triggered you. He

was sticking his nose in where it didn't belong in a way that

invalidated you. I think what I'd do in this particular

situation is state that this topic is off limits and that you

won't discuss it. I wouldn't make threats about leaving but I'd

have a plan for what to do if he insists on discussing it,

whether that is hanging up the phone, ignoring that portion of

his e-mails, cutting off contact completely or whatever else

works for you. If he wants to create drama out of your refusal

to do what he wants, let him create drama on his own, without

you.

At 11:05 AM 10/01/2012 afldancer wrote:

>I recently visited the one brother I have who typically doesnt

>get involved with nada's bullshit. If you recall, I've been NC

>for about 18 months now.

>

>When we were alone, he said

>

> " I'm only going to say this and nothing else, you need to fix

>this shit with mom. "

>

>To which I responded " Brother, I can't fix it. She has some

>serious isues that she needs to deal with. Until she does, I

>can't be in contact with her. "

>

> " She is working on it. "

>

> " Brother she threw stuff at me. She doesn't get a free pass to

>not have to apologize or explain herself. "

>

> " Well, someone has to be the bigger person. "

>

>Now, granted, he has no clue of all the abuse that went on,

>both physical and emotional, but in what world does a person

>think it's reasonable advice to tell someone they should

>continue enabling a family member to hurt them?

>

>The whole conversation totally triggered me, and I've been very

>upset ever since. Part of me wants to email him and say: if you

>bring this up again, I will leave. But I also knw that will

>just make drama. I know that in practice, that's what I will

>do.

>

>I just need some reassurance.

>

>Thanks all.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I don't know if this will help, but my brother used to frequently say the same

thing to me (and it was always " just this once " ). I figured out that it was

really a result of nada now using him as a target and him subconciously trying

to shift her focus...and, sometimes, pressure from nada to him.

Once I realized that, and once I realized that he is a full grown man and I have

to allow him the freedom to make his own decisions about interacting with her,

it became much easier to tell him that what is between nada and I is between

nada and I, not between nada, him, and I.

It wasn't worth it, to me, to really discuss her issues with him...especially

because say some point he will get suckered into telling her what I say. That

would be major drama. This way, all he can report is that I wouldn't talk about

it.

Ninera

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

----- Reply message -----

Date: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 11:05 am

Subject: Gotta love the flying monkeys

To: WTOAdultChildren1 >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am pretty suure I said this in my post, but I have neen no contact for over 18

months, so I can't get any more NC than I already have. But thanks for your

support.

> >I recently visited the one brother I have who typically doesnt

> >get involved with nada's bullshit. If you recall, I've been NC

> >for about 18 months now.

> >

> >When we were alone, he said

> >

> > " I'm only going to say this and nothing else, you need to fix

> >this shit with mom. "

> >

> >To which I responded " Brother, I can't fix it. She has some

> >serious isues that she needs to deal with. Until she does, I

> >can't be in contact with her. "

> >

> > " She is working on it. "

> >

> > " Brother she threw stuff at me. She doesn't get a free pass to

> >not have to apologize or explain herself. "

> >

> > " Well, someone has to be the bigger person. "

> >

> >Now, granted, he has no clue of all the abuse that went on,

> >both physical and emotional, but in what world does a person

> >think it's reasonable advice to tell someone they should

> >continue enabling a family member to hurt them?

> >

> >The whole conversation totally triggered me, and I've been very

> >upset ever since. Part of me wants to email him and say: if you

> >bring this up again, I will leave. But I also knw that will

> >just make drama. I know that in practice, that's what I will

> >do.

> >

> >I just need some reassurance.

> >

> >Thanks all.

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The whole " be the bigger person " rhetoric is really frustrating. Sometimes I

think it's an over-simplified solution for people who don't understand mental

disorder, family dysfunction or dispute resolution whatsoever.

This solution might work in a schoolyard over some spilled skittles but,come on,

who in their right mind would think this is a viable and realistic solution to a

dyfunctional/mentally/violent nada?

So now your jerk-flying monkey brother has conveniently placed the onus on you

to do all the healing for everybody. Does he really have no clue that by asking

you to do this he's really asking you to place yourself in an abusive situation?

Would he tell you to " be the bigger person " if it was your husband who had

thrown things at you?

I think this is possibly his way of trying to gloss over the complex details of

this problem so he doesn't have to put forth energy himself. That's your job.

Sheesh! I hope you stand up to him and stick to your guns.

I too have brother/flying-monkey drama in my family. It's hard. Almost harder

than dealing with the BPD because at least the BDP has an EXCUSE for their bad

behaviour!

Hugs from HF

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I am really so over it. I want nothing to do with the monster, and I don't

care if her feelings are hurt by it. My life has been nothing but fantastic

since I went NC, and I intend to keep it that way. I think if this happens

again, im going to be very frank and say, if you bring this up again and

question my decisions over my own life, then I wont be able to continue visiting

with you. I can only do what's best for me. No sane person would expect me to

sacrifice myself for her feelings, which I have already done my entire life.

ly, I feel like saying 'hey bro, I'm jusst going to say this one thing and

then be done 'fuck off and mind your own business' next time he or anyone else

questions me.

>

> I don't know if this will help, but my brother used to frequently say the same

thing to me (and it was always " just this once " ). I figured out that it was

really a result of nada now using him as a target and him subconciously trying

to shift her focus...and, sometimes, pressure from nada to him.

>

> Once I realized that, and once I realized that he is a full grown man and I

have to allow him the freedom to make his own decisions about interacting with

her, it became much easier to tell him that what is between nada and I is

between nada and I, not between nada, him, and I.

>

> It wasn't worth it, to me, to really discuss her issues with him...especially

because say some point he will get suckered into telling her what I say. That

would be major drama. This way, all he can report is that I wouldn't talk about

it.

>

> Ninera

>

>

>

> Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

>

> ----- Reply message -----

> From: " afldancer "

> Date: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 11:05 am

> Subject: Gotta love the flying monkeys

> To: WTOAdultChildren1 >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

He's not seeing the whole picture as they call it. I'm not sure where his head

is at (no comments please LOL) but how can he live a whole childhood with her

and you and not see the weirdness? And making excuses for her - she's working

on it. Yeah, a few pitiful comments to him about how hurt she is and she's

trying so hard to connect with you does not make all the pain go away.

Try (notice I say try) not to get sucked into this laying on the guilt.

>

> I recently visited the one brother I have who typically doesnt get involved

with nada's bullshit. If you recall, I've been NC for about 18 months now.

>

> When we were alone, he said

>

> " I'm only going to say this and nothing else, you need to fix this shit with

mom. "

>

> To which I responded " Brother, I can't fix it. She has some serious isues that

she needs to deal with. Until she does, I can't be in contact with her. "

>

> " She is working on it. "

>

> " Brother she threw stuff at me. She doesn't get a free pass to not have to

apologize or explain herself. "

>

> " Well, someone has to be the bigger person. "

>

> Now, granted, he has no clue of all the abuse that went on, both physical and

emotional, but in what world does a person think it's reasonable advice to tell

someone they should continue enabling a family member to hurt them?

>

> The whole conversation totally triggered me, and I've been very upset ever

since. Part of me wants to email him and say: if you bring this up again, I will

leave. But I also knw that will just make drama. I know that in practice, that's

what I will do.

>

> I just need some reassurance.

>

> Thanks all.

>

[Guest guest]

Your brother should respect the fact that your relationship with your mother is

independent of his relationships with the two of you. That your experiences

with your mother have left you hurt and at this time you need distance for your

well being. He does not have to like your decision nor respect it but he should

respect it is your decision to make. In speaking to my T she said NADAs will

usually target their daughters more than their sons, and as such the two

children can grow up with different perspectives.

Take good care, I hope you get the strength you need and the healing you

deserve!

MyReality

>

> I recently visited the one brother I have who typically doesnt get involved

with nada's bullshit. If you recall, I've been NC for about 18 months now.

>

> When we were alone, he said

>

> " I'm only going to say this and nothing else, you need to fix this shit with

mom. "

>

> To which I responded " Brother, I can't fix it. She has some serious isues that

she needs to deal with. Until she does, I can't be in contact with her. "

>

> " She is working on it. "

>

> " Brother she threw stuff at me. She doesn't get a free pass to not have to

apologize or explain herself. "

>

> " Well, someone has to be the bigger person. "

>

> Now, granted, he has no clue of all the abuse that went on, both physical and

emotional, but in what world does a person think it's reasonable advice to tell

someone they should continue enabling a family member to hurt them?

>

> The whole conversation totally triggered me, and I've been very upset ever

since. Part of me wants to email him and say: if you bring this up again, I will

leave. But I also knw that will just make drama. I know that in practice, that's

what I will do.

>

> I just need some reassurance.

>

> Thanks all.

>